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Subject: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/13/17 at 9:59 am

When people refer to decades a lot of the time they are referring to the popular culture that dominated them, and in the case of the sixties, most people associate the decade with psychedelia, the Vietnam war, hard rock, folk, long hair, and hippies, and these things did not begin or were not significant until the second half of the decade. 1963 and 1964 were transition years between 50s culture and 60s with MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech, JFK's Assassination, The beginning of the Beatles popularity in the US and the passing of the civil rights act, but 1965 was really the year when what most people culturally think of as the sixties truly began, in my opinion. Here's why;

At the beginning of 1965, the mood was optimistic, the hit song was "I Feel Fine" by The Beatles, it matched the optimism of both Americans rebounding from JFK's assassination and Britain proud to be the swinging capitol of pop culture. The hopefulness continued through the first half of the year, but when the second half of 1965 began, the year suddenly took a dark turn.

President Johnson began to escalate the war in Vietnam, drafting 35,000 men a month, blacks began to riot in Watts in what became the worst case of urban unrest since the Detroit race riot of 1943. The desolate "Yesterday" by the Beatles resonated with millions who felt a stable past was crumbling in the face of social upheaval. The nation was now divided. Sonny and Cher introduced the hippie look appearing on TV with their hit song "I Got You Babe", Bob Dylan released "Like a Rolling Stone" - the quintessential anthem of the year - and went electric at the Newport Folk Festival, The Rolling Stones' hit song "Satisfaction" catapulted the band to world-wide success and brought hard rock to the mainstream. This was not only the year of rock as new genres such as funk and psychedelia were born. Soul music became a prime force of desegregation as Motown crossed out of the R&B charts on to the top of the Billboard Top 100. Country music reached new heights with Nashville and the Bakersfield sound and competition between musicians coincided with seismic cultural shifts wrought by the Civil Rights Movement, psychedelics, and Vietnam. As the year ended, the Beatles released "Rubber Soul" and by this point they were now way ahead of their twist and shout days. The "Sixties" had begun.

https://consequenceofsound.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mosaicc50b562816c3b6a6f80b1453c8b4289b881d4648.jpg

So what do you think? Was 1965 the beginning of the 60s zeitgeist? Or would you say it began at a different time?

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Tyrannosaurus Rex on 08/13/17 at 11:19 am


When people refer to decades a lot of the time they are referring to the popular culture that dominated them, and in the case of the sixties, most people associate the decade with psychedelia, the Vietnam war, hard rock, folk, long hair, and hippies, and these things did not begin or were not significant until the second half of the decade. 1963 and 1964 were transition years between 50s culture and 60s with MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech, JFK's Assassination, The beginning of the Beatles popularity in the US and the passing of the civil rights act, but 1965 was really the year when what most people culturally think of as the sixties truly began, in my opinion. Here's why;

At the beginning of 1965, the mood was optimistic, the hit song was "I Feel Fine" by The Beatles, it matched the optimism of both Americans rebounding from JFK's assassination and Britain proud to be the swinging capitol of pop culture. The hopefulness continued through the first half of the year, but when the second half of 1965 began, the year suddenly took a dark turn.

President Johnson began to escalate the war in Vietnam, drafting 35,000 men a month, blacks began to riot in Watts in what became the worst case of urban unrest since the Detroit race riot of 1943. The desolate "Yesterday" by the Beatles resonated with millions who felt a stable past was crumbling in the face of social upheaval. The nation was now divided. Sonny and Cher introduced the hippie look appearing on TV with their hit song "I Got You Babe", Bob Dylan released "Like a Rolling Stone" - the quintessential anthem of the year - and went electric at the Newport Folk Festival, The Rolling Stones' hit song "Satisfaction" catapulted the band to world-wide success and brought hard rock to the mainstream. This was not only the year of rock as new genres such as funk and psychedelia were born. Soul music became a prime force of desegregation as Motown crossed out of the R&B charts on to the top of the Billboard Top 100. Country music reached new heights with Nashville and the Bakersfield sound and competition between musicians coincided with seismic cultural shifts wrought by the Civil Rights Movement, psychedelics, and Vietnam. As the year ended, the Beatles released "Rubber Soul" and by this point they were now way ahead of their twist and shout days. The "Sixties" had begun.

https://consequenceofsound.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mosaicc50b562816c3b6a6f80b1453c8b4289b881d4648.jpg

So what do you think? Was 1965 the beginning of the 60s zeitgeist? Or would you say it began at a different time?


A lot of shows, such as "The Andy Griffith Show" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" transitioned to color TV in 1965.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Voiceofthe70s on 08/13/17 at 11:27 am

Haven't we already covered all this in extreme detail? Not that I mind talking about the 60s and 70s mind you, that's why I originally came here.  :)

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: #Infinity on 08/13/17 at 1:52 pm

I would really say the 60s zeitgeist began more around the JFK assassination. Even before that, you had a culture starting to boil up with backlash against the 50s, with the March on Washington and some 60s-style pop songs becoming big hits. Then there was Beatlemania in 1964, plus the beginning of LBJ's Great Society.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 80sfan on 08/13/17 at 1:59 pm

There definitely was still a subtle '50ishness' even up until the late 60's/early 70's, if you search deep enough.

But definitely by 1966, it was obviously the 60's, at least in my eyes.

People dressed in 1965 not that differently from the 50's, in some ways.

For me, 1964 is a good enough start with The Beatles. But I could definitely see some 50's influence in 1964 too.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Voiceofthe70s on 08/13/17 at 2:26 pm


There definitely was still a subtle '50ishness' even up until the late 60's/early 70's, if you search deep enough.


That "subtle 50s-ishness" you speak of almost deserves a topic in itself. Though I wouldn't say that a "subtle 50s-ishness" was part of the "60s zeitgeist" that is under review here,  it was indeed that very "subtle 50s-ishness" that created the cultural 80s. All the "50-ish" type conservative politicians and policy makers, with Ronald Reagan at the helm, were just biding their time throughout the 60s and 70s, stewing in their own juices over the culture of the 60s and 70s.  A culture they considerd "radical, hippie, pinko, commie, permissive", and at the most opportune moment they staged a comeback bringing their 1950s-like values back full swing when the cultural 80s began in earnest in 1981. Most of these 1950s conservatives were then themselves in about their 50s or early 60s at that time (Reagan was older) and had a few good years left in them. They waited almost 20 years to exact their revenge and virtually erase the 60s and 70s as if they had never happened.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 80sfan on 08/13/17 at 2:33 pm


That "subtle 50s-ishness" you speak of almost deserves a topic in itself. Though I wouldn't say that a "subtle 50s-ishness" was part of the "60s zeitgeist" that is under review here,  it was indeed that very "subtle 50s-ishness" that created the cultural 80s. All the "50-ish" type conservative politicians and policy makers, with Ronald Reagan at the helm, were just biding their time throughout the 60s and 70s, stewing in their own juices over the culture of the 60s and 70s.  A culture they considerd "radical, hippie, pinko, commie, permissive", and at the most opportune moment they staged a comeback bringing their 1950s-like values back full swing when the cultural 80s began in earnest in 1981. Most of these 1950s conservatives were then themselves in about their 50s or early 60s at that time (Reagan was older) and had a few good years left in them. They waited almost 20 years to exact their revenge and virtually erase the 60s and 70s as if they had never happened.


Explains why the 80's was conservative, politically.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Voiceofthe70s on 08/13/17 at 2:50 pm


Explains why the 80's was conservative, politically.


That was ONE of the reasons. The other was the natural course of things. That is, the natural inclination of the younger to rebel against the values of their elders. So you had the exact opposite of the Baby Boomer/hippie generation rebelling against their conservative 1950s era parents. You now had the as-yet-unnamed Gen X rebelling against the hippie-ish parents and the only way to go was to the right. Hence the "Alex P. Keaton" type character. The term "Young Republican" could only have come from the 80s. It would have been unheard of in the 60s and 70s. No less a Boomer icon than John Lennon predicted this as early as 1966 or so when he said "our children will hate us too, you know".

SO...between the return of the actual 1950s conservatives in 1981 and the dawning of Generation X, you had a perfect storm for the conservative 80s.

By the way, one of the earliest examples of the emerging Generation X rebelling against 1960s parents is the 1979 film "Over The Edge", but this is REALLY early in the game and is a bit nebulous.  A pretty good film nonetheless.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/13/17 at 3:36 pm

Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) and his landslide defeat to President Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX) in the 1964 presidential election set up former California Governor Ronald Reagan's election in 1980.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/13/17 at 4:01 pm


I would really say the 60s zeitgeist began more around the JFK assassination. Even before that, you had a culture starting to boil up with backlash against the 50s, with the March on Washington and some 60s-style pop songs becoming big hits. Then there was Beatlemania in 1964, plus the beginning of LBJ's Great Society.


1963 and 1964 as I mentioned were transition years between the 50s and 60s, with 1964 being very close to the zeitgeist but just not quite there yet as it lacked too many fundamental aspects of 60s culture, there were no US combat troops stationed in Vietnam, the Beatles hadn't reached their creative peak yet, fashion was still conservative, and the nation still wasn't divided.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: #Infinity on 08/13/17 at 7:13 pm


1963 and 1964 as I mentioned were transition years between the 50s and 60s, with 1964 being very close to the zeitgeist but just not quite there yet as it lacked too many fundamental aspects of 60s culture, there were no US combat troops stationed in Vietnam, the Beatles hadn't reached their creative peak yet, fashion was still conservative, and the nation still wasn't divided.


Fashion in 1963 and 1964 was extremely 60s, really the first years that 60s fashion had solidified its identity. With Bridgette Bardot already a popular fashion icon, hair was suddenly much bigger and rounder than it had generally been in the 50s, while dresses were started to switch more to the shift style and less the bombshell skirt look from the past.

Fashion in 1963 was like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hmv0HxCn5Dk/UoYAyiLUehI/AAAAAAAACaU/RfZBe9JNefA/s640/Simplicity_5309.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OWCUYgjAoUo/UoYAjSKbzLI/AAAAAAAACXg/_-Yf9TTLWQo/s1600/600px-M7158.png

Fashion in 1964 was like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/c9/4d/0ec94d7299bbcada7b861477b53f538c.jpg
https://chicandyoushallfind.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/1964-fashion-pic.jpg

By 1969, it was this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2d/d5/f4/2dd5f423006d8ad1a84aafd97768cf8e.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/3c/8a/48/3c8a486a14b84d7b043658de0fa7f66f---fashion-s-style.jpg

Not that different, if you ask me.

By contrast, this was 1959:

https://vintagedancer.com/wp-content/uploads/1959-Wards-party-cocktail-prom-dresses-3-350x381.jpg

How was the nation not divided yet? Protests were already springing up throughout the early 60s, with dissatisfaction quickly laying the foundations for what would eventually emerge as the hippie counterculture. Peter, Paul & Mary recorded several hit songs in 1962 and 1963 that reflected the 60s zeitgeist to the fullest, including a cover of Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind." Even more traditional pop songs, such as Lesley Gore's "You Don't Own Me," expressed a serious defiance against the callous backwardness of 1950s Americana. 60s soul songs were also developing a more coherent identity, with songs like "Heatwave," "Walk On By," and "My Guy" showing significant creative leaps over the incredibly stale pop being mass-produced at the beginning of the decade. Diana Ross and the Supremes also made it big during the second half of 1964 with the release of their breakthrough LP, Where Did Our Love Go.

It doesn't matter that the Beatles weren't at their creative peak yet, they were already one of the single most influential groups of all time pretty much overnight when they appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show. In the midst of their absolute domination of 1964, several other British Invasion groups soon made it big that same year, including the Zombies, the Kinks, the Rolling Stones, Manfred Mann, and the Animals, all of which fleshed out the groundbreaking sound of 1960s music even further.

There were lingering elements of 50s culture in 1964, but far and large, the 60s zeitgeist was undoubtedly established by that year, and I'd even argue 1963 was pretty comfortably 60s, too. Even though 60s culture peaked mostly around 1967 and 1968, things were pretty distinguishable from the 1950s by 1963 and 1964.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 80sfan on 08/13/17 at 7:17 pm

I think that it was the black and white pics in 1963 that made it still seem 'old' and '50's'. But you could definitely see 60's fashion in 1963.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/13/17 at 7:38 pm

Here's 50 encapsulating photos from 1965: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/03/50-years-ago-a-look-back-at-1965/387493/

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/13/17 at 7:41 pm


Fashion in 1963 and 1964 was extremely 60s, really the first years that 60s fashion had solidified its identity. With Bridgette Bardot already a popular fashion icon, hair was suddenly much bigger and rounder than it had generally been in the 50s, while dresses were started to switch more to the shift style and less the bombshell skirt look from the past.

Fashion in 1963 was like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hmv0HxCn5Dk/UoYAyiLUehI/AAAAAAAACaU/RfZBe9JNefA/s640/Simplicity_5309.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OWCUYgjAoUo/UoYAjSKbzLI/AAAAAAAACXg/_-Yf9TTLWQo/s1600/600px-M7158.png

Fashion in 1964 was like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/c9/4d/0ec94d7299bbcada7b861477b53f538c.jpg
https://chicandyoushallfind.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/1964-fashion-pic.jpg


It's still conservative, though. I don't picture that when I think of 60's fashion, this is usually what comes to mind when I think of 60's fashion;

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5172/5426283925_d44bc4fe48.jpg

http://assets.teamrock.com/image/721aa1eb-388e-4198-b2a6-7af4bb664ec2?w=720

http://img2-ak.lst.fm/i/u/arO/9ff63c8eab254477a3bc4874b75772d4

In 1964, none of this fashion was around yet. So no, I don't think fashion in 1963-1964 was that distinct from the 50's. The only thing that was distinct was the Beatles and British invasion look, but even though they were popular in 1964, guys still kept their hair short due to school/college rules.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/13/17 at 8:02 pm

I have a love-hate relationship with the 1960s. I like to love things about the '60s such as the movies (The Golden Age of Hollywood would continue and end in the '60s), the fashion (not Hippie fashion though), the technology (tech from then is now ancient but also charming and quaint), the Space Age, the Jet Age (air travel during that time was glamorous and amazing), the architecture (Googie architecture), the music was just OK to me.

However, the politics and socioeconomic of the '60s is much worse than today (I don't have to point out the obvious).

So, I'm conflicted with the 1960s...if I could get rid of the racism, segregation, etc of the 1960s, then I would want to go to the '60s in a heartbeat.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: #Infinity on 08/13/17 at 8:13 pm


It's still conservative, though. I don't picture that when I think of 60's fashion, this is usually what comes to mind when I think of 60's fashion;

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5172/5426283925_d44bc4fe48.jpg


This isn't really quintessential 60s fashion. It's really more entering early 70s territory. I just showed you photos of women's fashion from 1969, which still embodied the rounded, big haired, shift dress style that totally dominated the 1960s and hardly existed in the 50s. If you really want fashion that represents the 1960s as a whole, then you have to intermix the incoming counterculture and mod looks with the more conservative, yet still progressive styles that peaked in the mid-1960s.

http://assets.teamrock.com/image/721aa1eb-388e-4198-b2a6-7af4bb664ec2?w=720

That's just a hippie band stereotype. Aside from certain sub communities in the late 60s, hardly any guys wore their hair like that or dressed in those types of outfits conventionally. If anything, those guys look much more 70s, in my opinion. I'd look more to the mid-60s British Invasion look for quintessential male fashion.

http://img2-ak.lst.fm/i/u/arO/9ff63c8eab254477a3bc4874b75772d4

Sonny and Cher were pretty ahead of their time style-wise, but really, most people didn't look like that until the last few years of the 60s and into the early 70s.

In 1964, none of this fashion was around yet. So no, I don't think fashion in 1963-1964 was that distinct from the 50's. The only thing that was distinct was the Beatles and British invasion look, but even though they were popular in 1964, guys still kept their hair short due to school/college rules.

Many of them still kept their hair short in the late 60s as well.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/67/9a/26/679a26d17cca9ddf1e1658b0371cb911.jpg

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/6sf/f68/1968mockturtleneck.jpg

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/6sf/f68/1968bluecheckandwindowpanesportcoat.jpg

Just because you weren't grizzled out or bobbing your hair all the way didn't mean you were representative of the rockabilly age.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/13/17 at 8:26 pm


This isn't really quintessential 60s fashion. It's really more entering early 70s territory. I just showed you photos of women's fashion from 1969, which still embodied the rounded, big haired, shift dress style that totally dominated the 1960s and hardly existed in the 50s. If you really want fashion that represents the 1960s as a whole, then you have to intermix the incoming counterculture and mod looks with the more conservative, yet still progressive styles that peaked in the mid-1960s.

That's just a hippie band stereotype. Aside from certain sub communities in the late 60s, hardly any guys wore their hair like that or dressed in those types of outfits conventionally. If anything, those guys look much more 70s, in my opinion. I'd look more to the mid-60s British Invasion look for quintessential male fashion.

Sonny and Cher were pretty ahead of their time style-wise, but really, most people didn't look like that until the last few years of the 60s and into the early 70s.


But the hippie movement is what defined 60s culture more than anything else, so I really don't see how these photos aren't more representative of 60s fashion than the photos you linked.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: #Infinity on 08/14/17 at 12:10 am


But the hippie movement is what defined 60s culture more than anything else, so I really don't see how these photos aren't more representative of 60s fashion than the photos you linked.


I just really can't stand when people completely simplify the entire decade to just "hippies" in the same way they say the 90s was all about grunge and the 70s all about disco. Hippies were really only distinct to the late 1960s, and to a lesser degree the early 1970s. If you're trying to define an entire 1960s decade, you have to consider all the elements, not just the stereotypes.

Even so, hippie culture really evolved out of 50s/early 60s beatnik culture, which similarly rejected traditional Americana in favor of lifestyle liberation. The hippies just had a more grizzled fashion sense and listened to more psychedelic music.

Granted, the counterculture was a significant part of the 1960s, but just because it wasn't fully fleshed out yet in 1964 doesn't mean that year was still predominantly 50s the way you keep implying.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/14/17 at 2:19 am


I just really can't stand when people completely simplify the entire decade to just "hippies" in the same way they say the 90s was all about grunge and the 70s all about disco. Hippies were really only distinct to the late 1960s, and to a lesser degree the early 1970s. If you're trying to define an entire 1960s decade, you have to consider all the elements, not just the stereotypes.

Even so, hippie culture really evolved out of 50s/early 60s beatnik culture, which similarly rejected traditional Americana in favor of lifestyle liberation. The hippies just had a more grizzled fashion sense and listened to more psychedelic music.

Granted, the counterculture was a significant part of the 1960s, but just because it wasn't fully fleshed out yet in 1964 doesn't mean that year was still predominantly 50s the way you keep implying.


I was just saying that attitudes about the political situations seemed to really change in 1965. The mood in general seemed very different than the previous years.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Howard on 08/14/17 at 6:39 am


Fashion in 1963 and 1964 was extremely 60s, really the first years that 60s fashion had solidified its identity. With Bridgette Bardot already a popular fashion icon, hair was suddenly much bigger and rounder than it had generally been in the 50s, while dresses were started to switch more to the shift style and less the bombshell skirt look from the past.

Fashion in 1963 was like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hmv0HxCn5Dk/UoYAyiLUehI/AAAAAAAACaU/RfZBe9JNefA/s640/Simplicity_5309.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OWCUYgjAoUo/UoYAjSKbzLI/AAAAAAAACXg/_-Yf9TTLWQo/s1600/600px-M7158.png

Fashion in 1964 was like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/c9/4d/0ec94d7299bbcada7b861477b53f538c.jpg
https://chicandyoushallfind.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/1964-fashion-pic.jpg

By 1969, it was this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2d/d5/f4/2dd5f423006d8ad1a84aafd97768cf8e.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/3c/8a/48/3c8a486a14b84d7b043658de0fa7f66f---fashion-s-style.jpg

Not that different, if you ask me.

By contrast, this was 1959:

https://vintagedancer.com/wp-content/uploads/1959-Wards-party-cocktail-prom-dresses-3-350x381.jpg

How was the nation not divided yet? Protests were already springing up throughout the early 60s, with dissatisfaction quickly laying the foundations for what would eventually emerge as the hippie counterculture. Peter, Paul & Mary recorded several hit songs in 1962 and 1963 that reflected the 60s zeitgeist to the fullest, including a cover of Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind." Even more traditional pop songs, such as Lesley Gore's "You Don't Own Me," expressed a serious defiance against the callous backwardness of 1950s Americana. 60s soul songs were also developing a more coherent identity, with songs like "Heatwave," "Walk On By," and "My Guy" showing significant creative leaps over the incredibly stale pop being mass-produced at the beginning of the decade. Diana Ross and the Supremes also made it big during the second half of 1964 with the release of their breakthrough LP, Where Did Our Love Go.

It doesn't matter that the Beatles weren't at their creative peak yet, they were already one of the single most influential groups of all time pretty much overnight when they appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show. In the midst of their absolute domination of 1964, several other British Invasion groups soon made it big that same year, including the Zombies, the Kinks, the Rolling Stones, Manfred Mann, and the Animals, all of which fleshed out the groundbreaking sound of 1960s music even further.

There were lingering elements of 50s culture in 1964, but far and large, the 60s zeitgeist was undoubtedly established by that year, and I'd even argue 1963 was pretty comfortably 60s, too. Even though 60s culture peaked mostly around 1967 and 1968, things were pretty distinguishable from the 1950s by 1963 and 1964.


It seems that a lot of color was in fashion during those times.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: #Infinity on 08/14/17 at 9:15 am


I was just saying that attitudes about the political situations seemed to really change in 1965. The mood in general seemed very different than the previous years.


I think things like the Birmingham Riots, March on Washington, JFK Assassination, gradual liberalization of music, and breakthrough of the spy genre in movies and film were all critical events that solidified the 60s zeitgeist and spawned the rise of counterculture later in the decade. It doesn't really seem like general attitudes were all that different in 1969 compared to 1964, as both years were defined by the extreme clash of rising progressivism and conservative backlash.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: yelimsexa on 08/18/17 at 10:11 am

It's 1962 IMO. In that year you had:

-The Beatles first sessions, including Love Me Do, which was their first big hit in their native England and eventually hit #1 in the US
-The first James Bond movie Dr. No, launching the spy genre
-Marilyn Monroe's death bringing the end to the "glamorous" fifties look, and around that time, beehive hair started to take off
-New cars, except for some Cadillacs didn't have tailfins and the chrome look was significantly reduced
-Surf rock starts to become popular, led by The Beach Boys "Surfin' Surfari".
-John Glenn becomes the first American in space, meaning that the space race on the Moon is now fully on

That said, that more or less is the beginning of the "early sixties" phase. I see it as a time that's still fairly optimistic, but a lot more modern/Baby Boomer than the '50s and with the Civil Rights movement now a firm reality with much more promise of desegregation and improved rights, and with Vietnam a building but not yet hated war to protest against, as of course the conflict there started well before the JFK assassination. The second New York World's Fair in 1964-65 still had that utopian future feel, especially with Walt Disney and GE's Progressland, the most popular attraction that has the uptempo "Building a better tomorrow" theme (the attraction still exists at Disney World's Magic Kingdom, with the original 1960s section updated to reflect the changing times). Speaking of the JFK tragedy, I sort of compare it to how many see 9/11 as the true start of the '00s/21st century zeitgeist, but in reality it started in late 1999/early 2000, with that just being a generational vigil that transcends decades.

Now with regards to the late 1965 shift, IMO that's more or less the start of the "mid-late sixties" phase that continued through the summer of 1969. Barry McGuire's "Eve Of Destruction", a #1 hit about the growing war in Vietnam, also came out around the end of the summer of '65, the US started to manufacture dimes and quarters without silver leading to fiat money in which silver certificate paper money was also discontinued and eventually leading to higher inflation during the '70s/'early '80s, and the emergence of Postmodernism as a new art form were some of the other trends the can be linked to this shift. In China, the cultural revolution started shortly afterwards in the spring of 1966, and the introduction of Japanese imports like Toyota and Datsun (Honda came in the '70s), along with the rise of other imports like Volkswagen (its Beetle and Bus being major symbols of this era) and Fiat from Italy, although Toyota and Datsun wouldn't really start to take off until around 1969 or so.

The 1969-70 school year was sort of close with the Beatles last two albums, the first Earth Day, and the like, but the new TV shows that premiered that year (Sesame Street, Scooby-Doo, The Brady Bunch) are more linkened to the '70s, even if late '60s debuts like Laugh-In and The Mod Squad were pretty much at their peak.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/18/17 at 10:43 am

If you could remove the violent racism and segregation of the '60s....I would want go to the 1960s in a heartbeat.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Howard on 08/18/17 at 3:52 pm


If you could remove the violent racism and segregation of the '60s....I would want go to the 1960s in a heartbeat.


I'll join you.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/21/17 at 7:49 pm


If you could remove the violent racism and segregation of the '60s....I would want go to the 1960s in a heartbeat.


Didn't you already say this?

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/21/17 at 9:02 pm


Didn't you already say this?

Yes and I said it again.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Zelek3 on 08/22/17 at 1:38 am

1965 has also been called "the most revolutionary year in music". Rubber Soul, while not a prog rock album, is often considered ground zero for prog rock due to its sophistication, blend of worldly styles, experimental timbres, rhythms, tonal structures, and poetic texts. It inspired Brian Wilson to create Pet Sounds,which in turn inspired the Beatles to create Sgt.Pepper, which in turn inspired numerous prog bands.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: Zelek3 on 08/22/17 at 1:57 am

Desired, it's kind of funny you made this thread, because months ago I remember you saying you thought the 60s zeitgeist didn't really kick off until 1967, with 1963-1966 not even being that different from the 50s. I'm guessing that you changed your mind after reading more about 1965.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/22/17 at 2:10 pm


Desired, it's kind of funny you made this thread, because months ago I remember you saying you thought the 60s zeitgeist didn't really kick off until 1967, with 1963-1966 not even being that different from the 50s. I'm guessing that you changed your mind after reading more about 1965.


Indeed.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/23/17 at 2:09 pm

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-patterson-johnson-sixties-20141218-story.html

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 08/26/17 at 8:20 pm


This whole damn board is filled with " in music" threads, so I'll bump this to freshen things up.

Not much to discuss about this topic anymore.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: DesiredUsernameWasTaken on 08/26/17 at 8:46 pm


Not much to discuss about this topic anymore.


Well other people who haven't seen this thread yet might want to share their opinions.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: d90 on 09/12/17 at 2:23 am


That was ONE of the reasons. The other was the natural course of things. That is, the natural inclination of the younger to rebel against the values of their elders. So you had the exact opposite of the Baby Boomer/hippie generation rebelling against their conservative 1950s era parents. You now had the as-yet-unnamed Gen X rebelling against the hippie-ish parents and the only way to go was to the right. Hence the "Alex P. Keaton" type character. The term "Young Republican" could only have come from the 80s. It would have been unheard of in the 60s and 70s. No less a Boomer icon than John Lennon predicted this as early as 1966 or so when he said "our children will hate us too, you know".

SO...between the return of the actual 1950s conservatives in 1981 and the dawning of Generation X, you had a perfect storm for the conservative 80s.

By the way, one of the earliest examples of the emerging Generation X rebelling against 1960s parents is the 1979 film "Over The Edge", but this is REALLY early in the game and is a bit nebulous.  A pretty good film nonetheless.
this is also probably  of the reasons why many Millennials now are Liberal

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: LooseBolt on 09/12/17 at 5:10 am

I don't remember where I read it, but many cultural historians argue "The Sixties" is actually not so much a decade as a phase, and that it stretches all the way from 1955 (with the beginning of the Civil Rights movement) to 1974 (the end of Nixon and Vietnam).

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: SeaCaptainMan97 on 07/01/18 at 10:57 pm

The year 1960 was the '50s in all but name, and even arguably part of the '50s cultural zeitgeist.

1961-1963 was the "Kennedy Era", the transition between the cultural '50s and the cultural '60s. 1961 is when Kennedy became president, the space race started, and the Berlin Wall went up. 1962 was when the first Bond film came out, when Marilyn Monroe died, when the Cuban Missile Crisis occurred, when surf rock became popular, and even the Beatles released their debut single. 1963 was when you had the Beatles release their first album and Beatlemania begin to take shape, when the first episode of "Doctor Who" aired, and when Martin Luther King made his "I Have A Dream" speech in Washington DC.
However, if there's one specific date the cultural '60s would've truly begun, it would've been November 22, 1963, with the assassination of John F. Kennedy. The JFK assassination was to the '60s what 9/11 was to the '00s, it marked a major shift in the political and social climate, especially in the US, at the time.

1964-1966 are what I consider the "Heart of the '60s". Firstly, it was in those years when you had a major shift and overall modernization of the music scene. In 1964, you had the British Invasion, led at the forefront by the Beatles with them visiting the United States and going on the Ed Sullivan show of February of that year, but other bands such as the Rolling Stones, Kinks, and Animals also played a major role into this as well. The British Invasion was quite possibly the biggest shift in the music industry of all time, and 1964 is quite possibly the most revolutionary year for music in general. The British Invasion continued into 1965, and it was also in that year when you had Bob Dylan go electric, and at the very tail end of that year, you had the Beatles release "Rubber Soul", which marked a major pivot in the band from the cheesy bubblegum-y boy band that giddy teenage girls knew and loved, into a more sophisticated soul-felt group of artists that pushed the rock genre to a creative peak. 1966 was the year rock music was beginning to reach a creative peak, with the release of two phenomenal albums; The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds", and the Beatles "Revolver", which both really brought rock & roll's artistic revolution into full swing. Also, this period was marked by major political and social shifts as well. 1964 saw the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and the US Congress authorize war against North Vietnam, as well as the Civil Rights Act signed into law, and Johnson's presidency, which started after the JFK assassination, extended due to his overwhelming electoral victory. 1965 saw the US involvement in the Vietnam War increased, as well as the Anti-War movement begin to take shape, the Voting Rights Act passed, the Watts Riots in Los Angeles, and when health warnings began to show on cigarette packets. 1966 saw the continuation of race riots, as well as US public opinion on the Vietnam War turning mostly negative, and fashion inspired from the Swinging London scene becoming popular.

1967-1969 are the "Hippie '60s", despite being in the late part of the decade, the vibe in those years is the vibe many younger people automatically think of when they think of "the '60s", they're basically the most stereotypical years of the '60s. 1967 saw the Hippie Movement really come into full swing with the Summer of Love, plus with the release of albums such as Velvet Underground's "The Velvet Underground and Nico", the Jimi Hendrix Experience's "Are You Experienced", and the Beatles "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band", as well as a wide assortment of others. 1968 and 1969 were a continuation of the Hippie Movement, 1968 was the most turbulent year of the '60s, and arguably the most turblent year after World War II, with the assassination of MLK and the race riots following, and the chaos surrounding the 1968 election.

If I were to split the decades culturally, here's how I'd do it;

1955-1960 = '50s Cultural Zeitgeist
1961-1963 = '50s-'60s Cultural Transition
1964-1969 = '60s Cultural Zeitgeist
1970-1972 = '60s-'70s Cultural Transition
1973-1978 = '70s Cultural Zeitgeist
1979-1982 = '70s-'80s Cultural Transition
1983-1988 = '80s Cultural Zeitgeist
1989-1991 = '80s-'90s Cultural Transition
1992-1997 = '90s Cultural Zeitgeist
1998-2001 = '90s-'00s Cultural Transition
2002-2007 = '00s Cultural Zeitgeist
2008-2010 = '00s-'10s Cultural Transition
2011-2016 = '10s Cultural Zeitgeist
2017-2020 = '10s-2020s Cultural Transition (TBD)

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 90s Guy on 07/04/18 at 9:25 pm

I think 65 is when the "60s" began. From what I've seen 64 was not all that different from 63 besides the Beatles. Look at the movie Goldfinger, shot in the US. For myself it is when British music totally subsumed American music that the 60s peaked. In 64 a lot of the Kennedy era feel was still lingering in sight and sound. It was still the Jetsons, futurism era. Kennedy was killed but replaced by a President who insisted on completing Kennedy's agenda and retitled it the Great Society. When British music totally overtakes American pop, and ground troops land in Vietnam, that's when "the 60s" begin.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 90s Guy on 07/04/18 at 9:34 pm

Music hits of 1964 besides The Beatles (songs that were #1 on the Hot 100 at some point during the year):

"There I've Said It Again" - Bobby Vinton
"Hello Dolly" - Louis Armstrong
"My Guy" - Mary Wells
"Chapel of Love" - Dixie Cups
"I Get Around" - Beach Boys
"Rag Doll" - Four Seasons
"Everybody Loves Somebody" - Dean Martin
"Oh Pretty Woman" - Roy Orbison
"Doo Wah Diddy" - Manfred Mann
"Baby Love" - The Supremes
"Leader of the Pack" - The Shang Ri Las
"Mr Lonely" - Bobby Vinton
"Come See About Me" - The Supremes.

You have surf rock, Bobby V, Doo Wop, girl pop, bubblegum, and even Dean Martin having massive hits in the mainstream in 64....This list could easily have been from 63. The only exception was The Beatles, but even in 64, the Beatles were a pop group, a massive, fun pop group who were novel because of their "long" hair. In 64 they were musically more poppy and softer than Elvis had been in 1956. Basically in 64 The Beatles were Elvis without Brylcreem.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: SeaCaptainMan97 on 07/04/18 at 10:41 pm


Music hits of 1964 besides The Beatles (songs that were #1 on the Hot 100 at some point during the year):

"There I've Said It Again" - Bobby Vinton
"Hello Dolly" - Louis Armstrong
"My Guy" - Mary Wells
"Chapel of Love" - Dixie Cups
"I Get Around" - Beach Boys
"Rag Doll" - Four Seasons
"Everybody Loves Somebody" - Dean Martin
"Oh Pretty Woman" - Roy Orbison
"Doo Wah Diddy" - Manfred Mann
"Baby Love" - The Supremes
"Leader of the Pack" - The Shang Ri Las
"Mr Lonely" - Bobby Vinton
"Come See About Me" - The Supremes.

You have surf rock, Bobby V, Doo Wop, girl pop, bubblegum, and even Dean Martin having massive hits in the mainstream in 64....This list could easily have been from 63. The only exception was The Beatles, but even in 64, the Beatles were a pop group, a massive, fun pop group who were novel because of their "long" hair. In 64 they were musically more poppy and softer than Elvis had been in 1956. Basically in 64 The Beatles were Elvis without Brylcreem.


While a lot of late Eisenhower and Kennedy Era music was still popular in that year, 1964 was still a very revolutionary year for the music industry, much more than 1965 was. The Beatles were not exactly an "Elvis without Brylcreem" in 1964 as you stated. The song "A Hard Day's Night", which came from the album of the same name, has a strong Swinging London vibe to it. You also had the Kinks, Rolling Stones, Animals, and other British groups becoming popular in this time period, and the sound and overall vibe of these songs was a major shift from what was popular in the Kennedy Era. 1964 and 1965 were very much a part of the same era, perhaps the "Post-Kennedy Era" of the '60s. The "Swinging Sixties" would've really began in 1966. That's when Swinging London inspired fashion really became popular, when public opinion on the Vietnam War became mostly negative, and it marked an even bigger shift in the music industry. This shift started with the Beatles "Rubber Soul", sure it may have been released in 1965, but it was released in December of that year, and was, therefore, more relevant in 1966, this marked when these rock artists shifted from being performers to being true artists. 1966 saw the release of albums such as Bob Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde", the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds", the Beatles "Revolver", and Rolling Stones "Aftermath" to solidify this shift.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 90s Guy on 07/04/18 at 10:51 pm


While a lot of late Eisenhower and Kennedy Era music was still popular in that year, 1964 was still a very revolutionary year for the music industry, much more than 1965 was. The Beatles were not exactly an "Elvis without Brylcreem" in 1964 as you stated. The song "A Hard Day's Night", which came from the album of the same name, has a strong Swinging London vibe to it. You also had the Kinks, Rolling Stones, Animals, and other British groups becoming popular in this time period, and the sound and overall vibe of these songs was a major shift from what was popular in the Kennedy Era. 1964 and 1965 were very much a part of the same era, perhaps the "Post-Kennedy Era" of the '60s. The "Swinging Sixties" would've really began in 1966. That's when Swinging London inspired fashion really became popular, when public opinion on the Vietnam War became mostly negative, and it marked an even bigger shift in the music industry. This shift started with the Beatles "Rubber Soul", sure it may have been released in 1965, but it was released in December of that year, and was, therefore, more relevant in 1966, this marked when these rock artists shifted from being performers to being artists. Also in this year you'd have the release of Bob Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde", the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds", the Beatles "Pet Sounds", and even the Rolling Stones "Aftermath".


What I meant by that comment is in 64 they were huge, but a novelty. I mean without benefit of hindsight, they could've been a passing fad from the perspective of the times. They also besides their hair weren't as radical as later on, or as serious. The Stones wouldn't become mainstream here until Satisfaction in 65. They were popular here, but dwarfed by many other acts. It's my opinion that 64 is a very very transitional year.

There is a quote from Keith Richards somewhere. He talks about how when the Stones first toured America in '64, it was all malt shops and innocence whereas it was like another country altogether in '69.

Look at these pix from the 64 NY World's Fair. Still has that very prim and proper look of the earlier 60s.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/rHHqiblxD6cjRKV3d5BkiHMPcHE=/0x600/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4950929/1964-65_New_York_World_s_Fair_Unisphere_fountain.0.jpg
https://fthmb.tqn.com/hvP8NOUIk-T7M4OA6mPhIw2TR6U=/960x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/its-a-small-world-ny-worlds-fair-56a9516d3df78cf772a5ccdd.jpg
http://www.tioorlando.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/its-a-small-word-Feira-New-York3.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5021/5621166056_33446048f9_b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/bananaphone5000/GORILLLAS/1964GE2.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/GM_Concept_Car_1964_NY_World%27s_Fair.jpg
http://forgotten-ny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/oldfairmonorail.jpg

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: SeaCaptainMan97 on 07/05/18 at 6:16 pm


What I meant by that comment is in 64 they were huge, but a novelty. I mean without benefit of hindsight, they could've been a passing fad from the perspective of the times. They also besides their hair weren't as radical as later on, or as serious. The Stones wouldn't become mainstream here until Satisfaction in 65. They were popular here, but dwarfed by many other acts. It's my opinion that 64 is a very very transitional year.

There is a quote from Keith Richards somewhere. He talks about how when the Stones first toured America in '64, it was all malt shops and innocence whereas it was like another country altogether in '69.

Look at these pix from the 64 NY World's Fair. Still has that very prim and proper look of the earlier 60s.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/rHHqiblxD6cjRKV3d5BkiHMPcHE=/0x600/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4950929/1964-65_New_York_World_s_Fair_Unisphere_fountain.0.jpg
https://fthmb.tqn.com/hvP8NOUIk-T7M4OA6mPhIw2TR6U=/960x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/its-a-small-world-ny-worlds-fair-56a9516d3df78cf772a5ccdd.jpg
http://www.tioorlando.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/its-a-small-word-Feira-New-York3.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5021/5621166056_33446048f9_b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/bananaphone5000/GORILLLAS/1964GE2.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/GM_Concept_Car_1964_NY_World%27s_Fair.jpg
http://forgotten-ny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/oldfairmonorail.jpg


Would you agree with splitting the '60s like this?

1960-1961 = The "'50s '60s"

1962-1965 = The Classic '60s (James Bond, Surf Rock, British Invasion, Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK Assassination, Gulf of Tonkin)

1966-1969 = The Swinging '60s (Swinging London fashion, public majority against Vietnam War, progressive rock, Flower Children)

I do think that 1964 and 1965 were still very much part of the same era. 1965 was basically a continuation of the British Invasion that started in 1964, public opinion on the Vietnam War that year was still mostly positive, The Beatles were still very pop sounding up until the very tail end of that year when they released Rubber Soul, and the hippie youth culture wasn't really popular yet.
1966 is referred to as "the year youth culture exploded". It was in that year public opinion on the Vietnam war turned mostly negative, when Swinging London fashion became popular in the US, when rock music really matured with the advent of albums such as Blonde on Blonde, Pet Sounds, Revolver, Aftermath, Love, Face to Face, and Freak Out!, as well as when the British Invasion was countered by an American wave with the advent of groups such as the Monkees and the Mamas and the Papas debuting and becoming popular, as well as with the aforementioned comeback from the Beach Boys. Not only did the Beatles shed their giddy innocent image with the change of sound, but 1966 was also the year the band decided to quit touring, as well as when John Lennon made his infamous "more popular than Jesus" quote that received mass backlash in the United States.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 90s Guy on 07/05/18 at 6:52 pm

I would divy it up more like:

1959-November 1963: Kitchen Debate, Sputnik era, era of plastic on furniture, era of mass consumerism, Doo Wop, Rock N' Roll, early Motown, Phil Spector sound. The Television Set helps swing the very close 1960 in Kennedy's favor. Pantie raids, Connie Francis, Spring Break becomes a thing. Sean Connery is James Bond; JFK helps turn a little known series of spy books into a film franchise when he lists From Russia With Love as one of his favorite novels. Jackie O inspires women all over the world in fashion with her gloves and pillbox hats. Mid Century Modern and Googie look dominate in design. Everything is pointing toward the future. Cuban Revolution, Bay of Pigs, Missile Crisis. America undermines Communist regimes in Africa and Latin America via the CIA. Height of the American Mafia's power and influence. Jimmy Hoffa is a massive sign of corruption and is hounded by RFK. Calypso music and other Latin sounds are popular in US. Color palette of this era is in the Pastels. Color TV begins to filter into homes. Breakfast at Tiffany's; Cary Grant is one of the most popular male stars. Hitchcock is at his peak. Twilight Zone. Saturday Morning Cartoons begin. Folk music is popular among college students and makes brief splashes into the mainstream. A mainstream man is either cleanshaven or at most has a small mustache (and the latter is usually only found on older men). Beats grow goatees and are mocked on TV in the form of Maynard G. Krebs. March on Washington brings sympathy to civil rights movement among whites, Kennedy moves to push a civil rights bill into law. Betty Friedan publishes the Feminine Mystique in 62, starting the Women's Lib movement although that won't peak for another half decade. The tail fin, malt shop era of futurism and optimism which begins to die a death with JFK.

November 1963-Mid 1965: Transitional year which sees the start of the British Invasion and continued hope for a better future, tail fins start going away, you have a wide array of sounds musically from Doo Wop, Surf, and now British inspired pop rock. LBJ is very popular; Civil Rights Act of 64 followed by the Voting Rights Act of 65; Liberalism is at its peak in America; Kennedy's New Frontier becomes Johnson's Great Society; Medicare, Medicaid come into existence (Medicare had been a hot button issue since the Truman years; Kennedy tried and failed to pass Medicare).

Vietnam isn't a real war until August of 65 (Johnson campaigns as the peace candidate in '64). Bondmania and Beatlemania at their heights. Goldfinger is massive; Thunderball makes earns over a billion dollars in modern money at the Box Office in 65. The Sound of Music. America is still very conservative in dress (The "long" Beatle haircut is popular, but you would only very rarely see men with truly long hair). Male hair is still typically short, women still style their hair like Jackie O (a 65 survey found Jackie to be the second most admired woman in America next to Mamie Eisenhower). A comparison to this period would be like, late 1990 to early 92 wherein hair metal and grunge pop culture and fashion coexisted, and until the tail end, grunge was more popular with college kids than the mainstream. Likewise in 63-65 the New Left, Pot, and ideas like Free Love were really only contained to the campuses. "Straight" (meaning short hair, traditional) culture and "Hip" culture coexist.

Mid 1965-Early 1968: Mod era. Psychedelia. Bright, vivid colors (Think the original Star Trek). "Swinging 60s"; high point of the Mini Skirt. LSD. Beatles mature as a group at the end of 65 and cease touring in 1966. "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" by The Stones is the hit of Summer 1965. Civil unrest and division begins to deepen with the Watts riots in 65, followed by Newark riots; Backlash to Civil Rights movement; white flight begins. Music is very diverse but only in the field of rock; other genres fade or are contained to "older" (above 30) people. Vietnam War becomes a growing source of division. Tide begins to turn against LBJ in late 66-early 67; the public is now divided on Vietnam and the generation gap widens deeply. Hair gets longer, skirts get shorter. Countless Riots and protests every year. Civil Rights movement becomes more "radical" with the birth of the Black Panthers and other groups; Malcolm X is murdered.

Mid 68 to Late 1972: The time period the 60s are most remembered for, even though it goes beyond the 60s in years. Earth tones. Environmental movement. Brady Bunch. Tet Offensive turns the public against the War; Cronkite declares the war can't be won (LBJ says privately "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America). Rock returns to its roots with a harder, blues based sound. The New Left gains momentum and the youth openly picket LBJ, "Hey, Hey LBJ, How Many Kids Have You Killed Today?" Sci Fi films enjoy a renaissance with 2001 and Planet of the Apes. 68 Democratic Convention, Altamont, followed by Woodstock and the Moon Landing. 

Stonewall; gay rights movement begins in earnest but won't make great strides until the late 70s. Women's Lib is at its peak. Push for Equal Rights Amendment.

Hippies. Young men have hair at or below shoulder length. Older men grow their sideburns long. Mustaches and Beards become popular and acceptable. Bell bottoms popular. Women begin parting their hair down the middle. MLK is killed, riots across cities, and the Civil Rights movement splinters and loses strength without strong leadership. The Southern Democrats break away from the mainstream and George Wallace actually wins a few states. Nixon is elected promising to bring order back and to win "peace with honor" in Vietnam. Elvis returns in 68. Brian Jones dies aged 27 in July 1969, the first major rock star death of the decade. Kent State in 70. Expansion of Vietnam into Cambodia. Jimi Hendrix dies Sept 70 aged 27. Janis Joplin dies Oct 70 aged 27. Jim Morrison is sentenced to prison and dies in July 1971, aged 27, while appealing his conviction. All in the Family. Manson murder trial; Backlash to Hippie movement; "Archie Bunker for President." Nixon wins re-election in November over McGovern, who is perceived to be the counterculture candidate and he is very popular.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: LooseBolt on 07/05/18 at 8:39 pm


I would divy it up more like:

1959-November 1963: Kitchen Debate, Sputnik era, era of plastic on furniture, era of mass consumerism, Doo Wop, Rock N' Roll, early Motown, Phil Spector sound. The Television Set helps swing the very close 1960 in Kennedy's favor. Pantie raids, Connie Francis, Spring Break becomes a thing. Sean Connery is James Bond; JFK helps turn a little known series of spy books into a film franchise when he lists From Russia With Love as one of his favorite novels. Jackie O inspires women all over the world in fashion with her gloves and pillbox hats. Mid Century Modern and Googie look dominate in design. Everything is pointing toward the future. Cuban Revolution, Bay of Pigs, Missile Crisis. America undermines Communist regimes in Africa and Latin America via the CIA. Height of the American Mafia's power and influence. Jimmy Hoffa is a massive sign of corruption and is hounded by RFK. Calypso music and other Latin sounds are popular in US. Color palette of this era is in the Pastels. Color TV begins to filter into homes. Breakfast at Tiffany's; Cary Grant is one of the most popular male stars. Hitchcock is at his peak. Twilight Zone. Saturday Morning Cartoons begin. Folk music is popular among college students and makes brief splashes into the mainstream. A mainstream man is either cleanshaven or at most has a small mustache (and the latter is usually only found on older men). Beats grow goatees and are mocked on TV in the form of Maynard G. Krebs. March on Washington brings sympathy to civil rights movement among whites, Kennedy moves to push a civil rights bill into law. Betty Friedan publishes the Feminine Mystique in 62, starting the Women's Lib movement although that won't peak for another half decade. The tail fin, malt shop era of futurism and optimism which begins to die a death with JFK.

November 1963-Mid 1965: Transitional year which sees the start of the British Invasion and continued hope for a better future, tail fins start going away, you have a wide array of sounds musically from Doo Wop, Surf, and now British inspired pop rock. LBJ is very popular; Civil Rights Act of 64 followed by the Voting Rights Act of 65; Liberalism is at its peak in America; Kennedy's New Frontier becomes Johnson's Great Society; Medicare, Medicaid come into existence (Medicare had been a hot button issue since the Truman years; Kennedy tried and failed to pass Medicare).

Vietnam isn't a real war until August of 65 (Johnson campaigns as the peace candidate in '64). Bondmania and Beatlemania at their heights. Goldfinger is massive; Thunderball makes earns over a billion dollars in modern money at the Box Office in 65. The Sound of Music. America is still very conservative in dress (The "long" Beatle haircut is popular, but you would only very rarely see men with truly long hair). Male hair is still typically short, women still style their hair like Jackie O (a 65 survey found Jackie to be the second most admired woman in America next to Mamie Eisenhower). A comparison to this period would be like, late 1990 to early 92 wherein hair metal and grunge pop culture and fashion coexisted, and until the tail end, grunge was more popular with college kids than the mainstream. Likewise in 63-65 the New Left, Pot, and ideas like Free Love were really only contained to the campuses. "Straight" (meaning short hair, traditional) culture and "Hip" culture coexist.

Mid 1965-Early 1968: Mod era. Psychedelia. Bright, vivid colors (Think the original Star Trek). "Swinging 60s"; high point of the Mini Skirt. LSD. Beatles mature as a group at the end of 65 and cease touring in 1966. "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" by The Stones is the hit of Summer 1965. Civil unrest and division begins to deepen with the Watts riots in 65, followed by Newark riots; Backlash to Civil Rights movement; white flight begins. Music is very diverse but only in the field of rock; other genres fade or are contained to "older" (above 30) people. Vietnam War becomes a growing source of division. Tide begins to turn against LBJ in late 66-early 67; the public is now divided on Vietnam and the generation gap widens deeply. Hair gets longer, skirts get shorter. Countless Riots and protests every year. Civil Rights movement becomes more "radical" with the birth of the Black Panthers and other groups; Malcolm X is murdered.

Mid 68 to Late 1972: The time period the 60s are most remembered for, even though it goes beyond the 60s in years. Earth tones. Environmental movement. Brady Bunch. Tet Offensive turns the public against the War; Cronkite declares the war can't be won (LBJ says privately "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America). Rock returns to its roots with a harder, blues based sound. The New Left gains momentum and the youth openly picket LBJ, "Hey, Hey LBJ, How Many Kids Have You Killed Today?" Sci Fi films enjoy a renaissance with 2001 and Planet of the Apes. 68 Democratic Convention, Altamont, followed by Woodstock and the Moon Landing. 

Stonewall; gay rights movement begins in earnest but won't make great strides until the late 70s. Women's Lib is at its peak. Push for Equal Rights Amendment.

Hippies. Young men have hair at or below shoulder length. Older men grow their sideburns long. Mustaches and Beards become popular and acceptable. Bell bottoms popular. Women begin parting their hair down the middle. MLK is killed, riots across cities, and the Civil Rights movement splinters and loses strength without strong leadership. The Southern Democrats break away from the mainstream and George Wallace actually wins a few states. Nixon is elected promising to bring order back and to win "peace with honor" in Vietnam. Elvis returns in 68. Brian Jones dies aged 27 in July 1969, the first major rock star death of the decade. Kent State in 70. Expansion of Vietnam into Cambodia. Jimi Hendrix dies Sept 70 aged 27. Janis Joplin dies Oct 70 aged 27. Jim Morrison is sentenced to prison and dies in July 1971, aged 27, while appealing his conviction. All in the Family. Manson murder trial; Backlash to Hippie movement; "Archie Bunker for President." Nixon wins re-election in November over McGovern, who is perceived to be the counterculture candidate and he is very popular.


You're right on the money there, and I think it tracks the public consensus for how the decade was divided. It's reflected in Mad Men, notably.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: 90s Guy on 07/05/18 at 9:03 pm

Yes, IMO most really only remember '68 to 72 as "the 60s"...The Mad Men era, which I feel runs from 60 through 65 (Take it from the campaign of 60 to the first combat troops landing at Vietnam) is a forgotten era. I really look at 64 as one of the biggest traditional years ever. It is like, the bridge between the 50s 60s and the 60s 60s. For myself, the combat troops landing in 65 and The Beatles releasing Rubber Soul are when "the 60s" really began. 1964 is still the era of the tail fin, Twilight Zone, the World's Fair - the last burst of pre Hippie mid century American and the last "Googie" year. There are some landmark, watershed years in American history, and these are them, I feel:

1933 - FDR takes office
1941 - Pearl Harbor
1956 - Elvis
1960 - Kennedy and a new generation of leadership as such are electee
1963 - Kennedy's murder
1964 - The pendulum year between innocence and maturity of the 60s
1968 - Tet and death; the beginning of the end of the New Deal coalition
1972 - Nixon triumphant; the end of the New Deal era in full
1974 - Gas lines, Watergate, American prestige at a low
1980 - Reagan's election, America takes a hard right turn
1991 - The pendulum year bridging the 80s and 90s culturally
1992 - A new generation of leadership; a new generation of music; LA Riots
1995 - OJ Trial
1999 - Clinton impeached
2001 - 911
2008 - Obama elected
2015 - Trump announces run for President and dominates the news ever since.

Subject: Re: Was 1965 the year the sixties zeitgeist began?

Written By: LooseBolt on 07/06/18 at 5:12 am

1964 is a banner year for an even bigger reason: death of the Dixiecrats and their subsequent absorption into the Republican Party with the emergence of civil rights as a major Democratic Party platform. It changed the political landscape of this country into a form that it has maintained up until this day.

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