inthe00s
The Pop Culture Information Society...

These are the messages that have been posted on inthe00s over the past few years.

Check out the messageboard archive index for a complete list of topic areas.

This archive is periodically refreshed with the latest messages from the current messageboard.




Check for new replies or respond here...

Subject: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/24/06 at 3:57 am

My wife started me on studying serial killers, several years ago.

I have kind of a fascination with them.
I have studied quite a bit about them.

So, please- feel free to ask me about them!
I will answer them as best as I can, or point you in a more appropriate sirection.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/24/06 at 6:45 am

Are you a cereal killer?  ;D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/24/06 at 2:01 pm

No, but I have heard of the legend of "The Toucan Son Of Sam".

For reference material, see the album "Cereal Killer", by Green Jello.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/24/06 at 2:05 pm

Which serial killers intrigue you the most?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/24/06 at 2:24 pm

Myself, I am particularly fascinated with the "Cannibal" killers.

As disgusting and bizarre as their behaviours are, they are the ones who are the extremists.

Good examples of these include Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein.

Gein fascinates me, because of his own unusual behaviors.
Not only would he consume parts of his victims, but he also constructed working pieces of furniture and simple appliances from discarded body parts.

He also had a home-tailored "suit", that he would wear on full moons, consisting of a "vest" with real women's breasts, "boxer shorts" with women's genitalia sewn on them, and a belt made from women's nipples.

Gein had a problem with his own identity, and that paved the way for much more serious issues.
But no one killer in history was quite as graphic as he was.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/24/06 at 2:27 pm

Good Hell!  I'm going to have to read a little more about him.  I hadn't heard that stuff.  :o

It's amazing how captivated we become by these monsters.  But I'll admit, I find them endlessly fascinating.  A friend of mine introduced me to this site:  http://www.crimelibrary.com/    It's really interesting.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/24/06 at 2:39 pm

There was also a movie about Ed Gein, which came out a few years ago.

Steve Railsback portrayed him magnificently!
It depicts Ed's life as he lived, as an adult. It also explains about his mother, who was almost Puritanical, in nature; how his family died; and the murders of the 2 victims who were able to be identified.

Another fascinating fellow, though not cannibalistic, was Edmund Emil Kemper.

He was a 6'8" tall fellow, who killed people by pretending to be a police officer.
His big thing was sadistic torture.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: CeramicsFanatic on 10/24/06 at 3:46 pm


Good Hell!  I'm going to have to read a little more about him.  I hadn't heard that stuff.  :o

It's amazing how captivated we become by these monsters.  But I'll admit, I find them endlessly fascinating.  A friend of mine introduced me to this site:  http://www.crimelibrary.com/    It's really interesting.


I've been fascinated by true crime for years and have read many books about serial killers.  I've also visited that crime library site you mentioned.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/24/06 at 10:17 pm


No, but I have heard of the legend of "The Toucan Son Of Sam".

For reference material, see the album "Cereal Killer", by Green Jello.


What about Captain Crunch?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 10/24/06 at 10:25 pm

Does Jack the Ripper intrigue you?  Have you read Patricia Cornwell's book concerning this? If so, what is your impression of her book?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/24/06 at 11:28 pm

Let me see if I can answer your queries:


Does Jack the Ripper intrigue you?  Have you read Patricia Cornwell's book concerning this? If so, what is your impression of her book?


Over the years, I have read several books on Jack, the Ripper.
All have proved interesting reading. However, the mystery is finally over- they have proven who Jack actually was.
From the documentary I saw a few years back, it appears that Jack, the Ripper was actually a member of Nobility, in the Courts of that day. He was able to disguise himself so cleverly that he rarely noticed. He also suffered some sort of physical deformity, which distorted his features somewhat. This explains why there was never an accurate description. He also wrote in red ink, as blood was too thick for his pens.


What about Captain Crunch?


No killers by this name, but there was/is a "phone phreak", known by that handle.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/25/06 at 6:24 am


Let me see if I can answer your queries:

Over the years, I have read several books on Jack, the Ripper.
All have proved interesting reading. However, the mystery is finally over- they have proven who Jack actually was.
From the documentary I saw a few years back, it appears that Jack, the Ripper was actually a member of Nobility, in the Courts of that day. He was able to disguise himself so cleverly that he rarely noticed. He also suffered some sort of physical deformity, which distorted his features somewhat. This explains why there was never an accurate description. He also wrote in red ink, as blood was too thick for his pens.

No killers by this name, but there was/is a "phone phreak", known by that handle.


There's a guy named Captain Crunch?  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/25/06 at 6:31 am

I have always been  freaked out by the ones who fit so well into society, i.e. Ted Bundy, John Gacy, Gary Ridgeway, and last but not least, the BTK killer, Dennis Rader. I mean , these guys were family men, pillars of society. These guys who live these double lives are the ones that truly give me the creeps.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/25/06 at 9:30 am


I have always been  freaked out by the ones who fit so well into society, i.e. Ted Bundy, John Gacy, Gary Ridgeway, and last but not least, the BTK killer, Dennis Rader. I mean , these guys were family men, pillars of society. These guys who live these double lives are the ones that truly give me the creeps.


Definitely!  Kinda makes you look around at the people you know...

I used to work with this guy that creeped me out beyond belief.  He appeared normal, was well liked, and had a wife and kids, but sometimes you would catch him staring at you and I swear, his eyes were pure evil.  I've always wondered what secrets he is hiding...

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 10/25/06 at 10:49 am


Definitely!  Kinda makes you look around at the people you know...

I used to work with this guy that creeped me out beyond belief.  He appeared normal, was well liked, and had a wife and kids, but sometimes you would catch him staring at you and I swear, his eyes were pure evil.  I've always wondered what secrets he is hiding...



Ew, I've known some people like that....it's just the bad vibe they give you...makes you wonder what they are REALLY like. :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/25/06 at 1:11 pm

I actually have my own story about a close-up brush with a killer.

The man's name was Claude Dallas.
He was wanted in several states for killing 2 or 3 Game Warden officers.
He was placed on a Tri-State manhunt list.

I was living in Utah, at this time.
There was a knock on my door, and I went to answer it.
There was a man there, in an officer's uniform, and he stated that he had the wrong house.
He then turned around, and walked away.

My biggest question at that time was, why was he wearing sunshades at night?
I later saw his picture on a book cover, and realized that it was the same man!
I was a teenager then, and I told my parents about it. Shortly after, Dallas was caught and killed.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/25/06 at 1:39 pm

Have you ever heard of "Harv the Hammer"?  Harvey Carrignan was his real name.. He did some damage in Washington State and Minnesota.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/25/06 at 1:56 pm


Have you ever heard of "Harv the Hammer"?  Harvey Carrignan was his real name.. He did some damage in Washington State and Minnesota.


I do recall hearing of him. Not really familiar with the case, but I seem to remember he was one of the ones considered the most brutal, when it actually came to the killing act.
I believe his weapon of choice was a handheld sledgehammer, which gave him his moniker.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/25/06 at 2:03 pm


I do recall hearing of him. Not really familiar with the case, but I seem to remember he was one of the ones considered the most brutal, when it actually came to the killing act.
I believe his weapon of choice was a handheld sledgehammer, which gave him his moniker.

Ann Rule wrote a book about him, titled "THE WANT AD KILLER" .
Also I found this information on him as well.

http://www.runet.edu/~maamodt/Carignan,%20Harvey.htm

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/25/06 at 2:09 pm

I will do that, when I have more time.

Who knows? I may find something useful for the novella I am attempting to write, for the "BLack Orchid Award" contest being held!

Thanks for the info!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: CeramicsFanatic on 10/25/06 at 2:10 pm

Have you read all of Ann Rule's crime books?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: La Roche on 10/25/06 at 2:17 pm

One of my favourite serial killers..

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/clark/index_1.html

Strange fact about Hadden.

In his male persona, he needed glasses to see, in his female persona, he didn't. His brain changed his eyesight.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/25/06 at 4:27 pm


Have you read all of Ann Rule's crime books?


I don't pay so much attention to authors as I do about the subject matter. I probably have read at least a few of her books, but I couldn't quote titles.


Strange fact about Hadden.
In his male persona, he needed glasses to see, in his female persona, he didn't. His brain changed his eyesight.


There were actual questions as to whethere hadden suffered MPD (multiple personality disorder) or schizophrenia. Either condition could trigger such an extreme. I don't know if it was ever properly diagnosed.

One such serial killer who suffered a form of schizophrenia was Peter Kurten, the infamous "Vampire of Dusseldorf". In the 1930s, Kurten murdered about 15 people, and drained their blood from their bodies.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: La Roche on 10/26/06 at 6:31 am


There were actual questions as to whethere hadden suffered MPD (multiple personality disorder) or schizophrenia. Either condition could trigger such an extreme. I don't know if it was ever properly diagnosed.

One such serial killer who suffered a form of schizophrenia was Peter Kurten, the infamous "Vampire of Dusseldorf". In the 1930s, Kurten murdered about 15 people, and drained their blood from their bodies.


He was awesome.

John Wayne Gacy is another favorite of mine. Everybody loved and trusted him and all the time he was killing dozens of people.  ;D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Gis on 10/26/06 at 8:35 am


He was awesome.

John Wayne Gacy is another favorite of mine. Everybody loved and trusted him and all the time he was killing dozens of people.  ;D
Awesome is not a word I would use.............. :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: La Roche on 10/26/06 at 8:40 am


Awesome is not a word I would use.............. :o


He picked something, applied himself and was good at it.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/26/06 at 2:43 pm

Kurten's methods of just how he was able to totally drain his victims of all blood is still not certain to this day.

Gacy used his guise of "Pogo", the Clown to entertain children, and thus gain confidence in the eyes of the public. What better way to do it?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: La Roche on 10/26/06 at 2:44 pm


Gacy used his guise of "Pogo", the Clown to entertain children, and thus gain confidence in the eyes of the public. What better way to do it?


I'll be needing my floppy shoes back by the way..

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/26/06 at 3:30 pm


He picked something, applied himself and was good at it.



::)



Have you read all of Ann Rule's crime books?


I've read a few - she's great! 


Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: La Roche on 10/26/06 at 3:32 pm


::)


His dad was probably like mine..

"You never stick at anything, one of these days you'll have to work hard at something!"

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/26/06 at 3:36 pm


His dad was probably like mine..

"You never stick at anything, one of these days you'll have to work hard at something!"


Reminds me of Ed Gein's father...a prominent butcher, he was quoted as saying:
"What, you gon' be a wimp, scared a' blood 'n guts, boy? You gon' be a failure?"

This was usually said just before he'd throw animal guts on Gein, at which point the mother would come and rescue him, only to beat him when the father wasn't looking.

Yep...I'd want to visit THAT family for Mother's Day!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/26/06 at 4:00 pm

I'm a serial killer 'buff' also, but you guys are giving me the creeps !  ??? :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/26/06 at 4:46 pm


I'm a serial killer 'buff' also, but you guys are giving me the creeps !  ??? :o


No you're not.  ::)

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/26/06 at 4:48 pm

you'd be surprised.. for instance, I can name victims of Ted Bundy, John Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer.. most people remember the names of the killers.. I can even name the victims. Now that's pretty weird, right?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/26/06 at 4:49 pm


you'd be surprised.. for instance, I can name victims of Ted Bundy, John Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer.. most people remember the names of the killers.. I can even name the victims. Now that's pretty weird, right?


pretty spooky,alright.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/26/06 at 4:50 pm

it's one of my 'quirks'.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/26/06 at 5:29 pm


you'd be surprised.. for instance, I can name victims of Ted Bundy, John Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer.. most people remember the names of the killers.. I can even name the victims. Now that's pretty weird, right?


One thing that surprises most people is just how many victims are forgotten, unless they're someone like Sharon Tate- the hapless actress killed by "The Manson Family".

Another thng is that many serial killers seem to keep a tally on their "score".

Example- Gacy was known to make marks on a leg of his workbench, for each victim he had.
The Russian serial killer "Citizen X" was discovered to have a diary, logging the names of his victims.
The female killer Aileen Wuornos kept track of hers by keeping an item that her victims "gave" her.

At this point, the murderer with the highest accurate body count is either Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer), or "Citizen X". I say "accurate", because of 2 killers who claimed more than 1,000 murders between the 2 of them, but under scrutiny their claims fall apart. They are Henry Lee Lucas and Ottis Toole, better known as "The Tag Team From Hell".

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/26/06 at 6:02 pm

Ted Bundy was suspected of more than 50 murders.. He never confessed to all of them. "They"  also speculate that the numbers could be as high as 100+

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: loki 13 on 10/26/06 at 7:38 pm

The case that most intrigues me is The Zodiac Killer. Have you seen any of his ciphers or letters?
The big question in this one is, are the police still interested in solving these murders?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/26/06 at 7:43 pm


The case that most intrigues me is The Zodiac Killer. Have you seen any of his ciphers or letters?
The big question in this one is, are the police still interested in solving these murders?

it's probably a cold case, but there has been recent news on the case, as there is another movie coming out soon about the case, starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Robert Downey Jr. It's been widely speculated that the killer either died or went to prison or relocated. 

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: loki 13 on 10/26/06 at 7:51 pm


it's probably a cold case, but there has been recent news on the case, as there is another movie coming out soon about the case, starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Robert Downey Jr. It's been widely speculated that the killer either died or went to prison or relocated. 


I know Ted Kaczynski, of unabomber fame, was a suspect. I'm just amazed that with all the computer
software no one is able to decipher his codes.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/26/06 at 7:57 pm


The case that most intrigues me is The Zodiac Killer. Have you seen any of his ciphers or letters?
The big question in this one is, are the police still interested in solving these murders?


At one time, the police lost interest, because they thought that they had captured the Zodiac.
The man in custody was named Arthur Miller.

However, Miller was exonerated posthumously (he died while in prison).
Due to DNA testing, they were able to conclude that it was his own blood mixed in with fish blood, and therefore could not have possibly been the Zodiac Killer.
So, yes. The Zodiac file has been reactivated.

My wife is into the Zodiac. She, in fact, has learned about cryptography from me, and has begun attempting to crack the codes herself. In fact, she has the notes for it around the apartment, and has come very close to cracking the 2nd & 3rd codes.

For reference material, see the books "Zodiak" and "Zodiak Unmasked". These have the ciphers, and the 1st code that was cracked by the FBI.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/27/06 at 5:38 pm


Ted Bundy was suspected of more than 50 murders.. He never confessed to all of them. "They"  also speculate that the numbers could be as high as 100+


My friend's aunt actually dated him for a while when he was living up in Washington.  Can you even imagine?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 10/27/06 at 5:39 pm


My friend's aunt actually dated him for a while when he was living up in Washington.  Can you even imagine?



that would be SOOO freaky after finding out who he really was. Wow....I bet she thanked her lucky stars that she was ok.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/27/06 at 5:55 pm


My friend's aunt actually dated him for a while when he was living up in Washington.  Can you even imagine?

was she the famous girlfriend that somehow in Ted's skewed mind, 'wronged' him, in which he tended to have a preference for pretty brunettes with long hair parted in the middle?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/30/06 at 4:27 am

Interesting side-note on Ted Bundy:

Did you know...Bundy was consulted in the hunt for Gary "The Green River Killer" Ridgeway?

It was Bundy who cued the police in on his patterns.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/30/06 at 7:41 am


Interesting side-note on Ted Bundy:

Did you know...Bundy was consulted in the hunt for Gary "The Green River Killer" Ridgeway?

It was Bundy who cued the police in on his patterns.

Yes, I read the book "Riverman" by Robert Keppel , the investigator on both cases. Ted had told them to find a fresh kill and then stake it out, because in all likelihood, the killer would return to the site.  Bob Keppel stated that it gave investigators more insight into how Ted had probably worked, and that Ted was being manipulative, as always, by toying with them, because he liked the spotlight of being 'consulted'. The real reason they 'consulted' with him was to see if they could get Ted to give more information regarding his victims, which of course , Ted never did.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/30/06 at 12:07 pm


was she the famous girlfriend that somehow in Ted's skewed mind, 'wronged' him, in which he tended to have a preference for pretty brunettes with long hair parted in the middle?


I don't know.  :-\\

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: CeramicsFanatic on 10/30/06 at 12:12 pm


you'd be surprised.. for instance, I can name victims of Ted Bundy, John Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer.. most people remember the names of the killers.. I can even name the victims. Now that's pretty weird, right?


So can I!  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 10/30/06 at 3:41 pm

Why do you call them serial killers?  ???

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Sister Morphine on 10/30/06 at 4:46 pm


Why do you call them serial killers?  ???



Because they kill many people in a row.  Like a "serial", or multi-part TV show.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: spaceace on 10/30/06 at 7:22 pm

No one has mentioned "Son of Sam". :o  What is your opinion of "S.O.S."?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/30/06 at 7:25 pm

Berkowitz is now going under the moniker "Son Of Hope".

Apparently, he found religion, whilst in prison, and is now telling his full story in the ministry.

He doesn't interest me as much, simply because his story is all too common.
Now, had "Sam" actually been involved in some way, that would be different!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: spaceace on 10/30/06 at 7:31 pm

Geez, he's found religion. (Go, figure!!)  I was always kind of interested in BTK. 

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/30/06 at 7:35 pm


So can I!  :o


I think it's from reading all those true-crime books (Ann Rule!!)

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/31/06 at 12:45 am

Another fascinating one is Aileen Wuornos.

She is one of the few female serial killers that has been captured alive; she is dead, now.
Her MO was to hitchhike, and offer sex for transport; she would later kill her victims, often by strangling them, and robbing the corpses.

She was finally caught, when purchases used on a victim's credit card trced her to where she was staying.
The FBI knew they had to be careful with her, as very few female killers seem to be caught alive.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/31/06 at 8:38 am


Another fascinating one is Aileen Wuornos.

She is one of the few female serial killers that has been captured alive; she is dead, now.
Her MO was to hitchhike, and offer sex for transport; she would later kill her victims, often by strangling them, and robbing the corpses.

She was finally caught, when purchases used on a victim's credit card trced her to where she was staying.
The FBI knew they had to be careful with her, as very few female killers seem to be caught alive.

and statistically, there are very few female serial killers. Black Widow, money hungry wives aside.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/31/06 at 8:41 am


Another fascinating one is Aileen Wuornos.

She is one of the few female serial killers that has been captured alive; she is dead, now.
Her MO was to hitchhike, and offer sex for transport; she would later kill her victims, often by strangling them, and robbing the corpses.

She was finally caught, when purchases used on a victim's credit card trced her to where she was staying.
The FBI knew they had to be careful with her, as very few female killers seem to be caught alive.

I actually felt sorry for Aileen Wuornos. I've read a couple books about her and also saw the documentary about her with the interviews. And she had one F'd up life. She was tormented and abused most of her life and what started out as a means for survival ended up as serial murder. I believe she probably was mentally ill as well and in her mind, she was 'justified' in killing those johns. I am in no way condoning murder, but she was definitely the product of a hellish upbringing and most often destructive behavior is the result. She just happened to be female. And her destructive behavior happened to turn into murder.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: spaceace on 10/31/06 at 8:46 am


I actually felt sorry for Aileen Wuornos. I've read a couple books about her and also saw the documentary about her with the interviews. And she had one F'd up life. She was tormented and abused most of her life and what started out as a means for survival ended up as serial murder. I believe she probably was mentally ill as well and in her mind, she was 'justified' in killing those johns. I am in no way condoning murder, but she was definitely the product of a hellish upbringing and most often destructive behavior is the result. She just happened to be female. And her destructive behavior happened to turn into murder.

Have you seen the movie "Monster"?  The producers talked to Aileen before she was executed.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 10/31/06 at 8:49 am


Have you seen the movie "Monster"?  The producers talked to Aileen before she was executed.


Yep, I own it, and when I bought it, it came with a bonus DVD (the Documentary I was referring to) , "Aileen: Life and Death Of A Serial Killer" the 2002 Interviews. It has a lot of information about her upbringing, that isn't covered in the movie.  By the way, I think Charlize played her well. Amazing performance.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/31/06 at 9:28 am


and statistically, there are very few female serial killers. Black Widow, money hungry wives aside.


There's the Blood Countess...  :-[

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/women1/2.html

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: CeramicsFanatic on 10/31/06 at 10:18 am


I think it's from reading all those true-crime books (Ann Rule!!)


Most definitely!  :D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: CeramicsFanatic on 10/31/06 at 10:19 am


Another fascinating one is Aileen Wuornos.

She is one of the few female serial killers that has been captured alive; she is dead, now.
Her MO was to hitchhike, and offer sex for transport; she would later kill her victims, often by strangling them, and robbing the corpses.

She was finally caught, when purchases used on a victim's credit card trced her to where she was staying.
The FBI knew they had to be careful with her, as very few female killers seem to be caught alive.


She really gave me the creeps!  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 10/31/06 at 5:17 pm

I understand that there will be a movie about Edmund Emil Kemper coming out, within the next 2 years.
That one will be interesting to see.

He was an example of the "gentle giant" gone bad.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 12/29/06 at 4:31 am

You know, it seems there's new strains of these buggers everywhere!

I saw a book the other day about a guy called "The Hall Monitor Killer", although I know him by a different nom de guerre.

The guy was an Afro-American, whose personal hygiene was so horrid the kids called him "Stinky".
He was responsible for the deaths of around 35 hookers.

There was also yet another imitator of Jack, the Ripper recently in London.
Only this one was caught, convicted, and sentenced.

I sometimes wonder if George Bush falls into this category, or is he merely a mass-murderer?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 12/29/06 at 6:05 am


You know, it seems there's new strains of these buggers everywhere!

I saw a book the other day about a guy called "The Hall Monitor Killer", although I know him by a different nom de guerre.

The guy was an Afro-American, whose personal hygiene was so horrid the kids called him "Stinky".
He was responsible for the deaths of around 35 hookers.

There was also yet another imitator of Jack, the Ripper recently in London.
Only this one was caught, convicted, and sentenced.

I sometimes wonder if George Bush falls into this category, or is he merely a mass-murderer?


I think it belongs to Saddam Hussein.  >:(

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 12/29/06 at 7:36 am

I wonder what qualifys some as a serial killer, other then an "average" every day murder who kills 1 or 2 people.  We had a kid in our hometown that would come into the library where I worked.  He was a nice enough kid, just a little quiet and odd.  He'd get out all our serial killer books and books about satanism.  He ended up killing his parents and apparently had a list of people he wanted to kill.  My cousin had a "date" with him for the weekend that he murdered his parents, but thankfully he was caught by the police before the date could happen.

I used to read about true crime too for awhile, it is kind of like trying to solve a puzzle in regards to why some people do what they do, while others don't.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Apricot on 12/29/06 at 11:40 am

Who, in your opinion, was the worst serial killer?

What do you know about non-American serial killers, particularly False Dmitri?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 12/29/06 at 2:34 pm


Who, in your opinion, was the worst serial killer?
What do you know about non-American serial killers, particularly False Dmitri?


The 1st question is a bit loaded, isn't it?
It depends on what you refer to- for numbers, it's either Ted Bundy or Citizen X, from Russia.
For the gore factor, it's one of 3: Peter Kurten from Germany, Ed Gein, or Jeffrey Dahmer.
(My personal vote goes to Gein)

Concerning "foreign" killers: My knowledge is somewhat limited, I admit.
I am most versed with the cases of Peter Kurten (Germany), Citizen X (Russia) and Albert Cheaters (England).
I only know False Dmitri by name.

Care to enlighten me?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Apricot on 12/29/06 at 6:19 pm

Citizen X is about 15 behind Yang Xinhai. You familiar with Yang at all?

Ed Gein gets my vote as well for gruesome, just for what he did after the bodies were done for. Albert Fish deserves a bit of credit, not really for the murders but for some of the things he did to himself.. the murders were  bad, but have you read about some of the things he did for his own pleasure? Crazy stuff.

Tsutomu Miyazaki is also noteworthy, though he didn't exactly get a massive quantity, the murders themself were pretty bad. Everything about Miyazaki was pretty sick.

Now, with False Dmitri.. Oleg Kuznetsov was his real name. A professional footballer from Ukraine. Killed 10 women between 1991 and 1992. The name "False Dmitri" was originally given to three impostors claiming right to the Russian throne after Ivan the Terrible, but they gave it to this guy too.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 12/31/06 at 5:01 pm

I must agree with you about Tsutomu Miyazaki.

Thanks for the info on "False Dmitri".

Yang Xinhai....is he the one they called "The Tokyo Terror", over here in the States?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: KKay on 12/31/06 at 5:02 pm

wow!!! i never saw this thread.  i like readinga bout serial killers.

now i have to go back and read this whole thing.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 12/31/06 at 5:12 pm


wow!!! i never saw this thread.  i like readinga bout serial killers.
now i have to go back and read this whole thing.


I established this thread because I have a morbid curiosity about them.
My wife, Melissa, started me with this.

I run more in fascination towards the more gruespome aspects, such as cannibalism and body mutilation.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: KKay on 12/31/06 at 5:15 pm


I established this thread because I have a morbid curiosity about them.
My wife, Melissa, started me with this.

I run more in fascination towards the more gruespome aspects, such as cannibalism and body mutilation.


I'm the same way. do you watch all those poorly made documentaries on cable too?  i dig all that stuff.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/01/07 at 5:59 am


I'm the same way. do you watch all those poorly made documentaries on cable too?  i dig all that stuff.


I watch a lot of things.

Currently on my wish list are the movies on the following:

-Ed Gein
-Ted Bundy
-John Wayne Gacy

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 01/01/07 at 8:11 am

Did you know they came out with "baseball cards" with serial killers on them?  I thought it was an unusual idea.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Apricot on 01/01/07 at 1:16 pm

Was there a serial killer known as Mark Essex? I heard about someone who did something bad by that name, but I'm not sure on details.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/02/07 at 8:37 am


Did you know they came out with "baseball cards" with serial killers on them?  I thought it was an unusual idea.



I never knew they made that sort of thing. :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/02/07 at 8:28 pm


Did you know they came out with "baseball cards" with serial killers on them?  I thought it was an unusual idea.


I am quite aware of it...used to know someone who had about 30 of them.
Instead of stats such as RBIs, Homers & stuff, theirs were like:
-Real Name/Nickname
-Number Of Alleged Victims
-Number of Proven Victims
-M.O. (Modus Operandi)
-Date Captured

Kinda neat!


Was there a serial killer known as Mark Essex? I heard about someone who did something bad by that name, but I'm not sure on details.


Don't think so, but I will check.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Abix on 01/03/07 at 8:56 am


Did you know they came out with "baseball cards" with serial killers on them?  I thought it was an unusual idea.


There are also comic books available. I have a few. They are published by the Boneyard Press.
I have the editions featuring Jeffrey Dahmer, John Gacy and Ed Gein. I heard there's also Ted Bundy and Henry Lee Lucas available.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: whistledog on 01/03/07 at 3:11 pm

I live in the Prison Capital of Canada (There are 7 prisons here), where 3 well-known serial killers are (or have been) held :(

Have you heard of ... Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo and/or Karla Homolka?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Apricot on 01/03/07 at 7:48 pm


Don't think so, but I will check.


I looked it up, there was. He was a black man in the Navy, and I think his killings were race-related, from what I read.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/03/07 at 8:53 pm


I looked it up, there was. He was a black man in the Navy, and I think his killings were race-related, from what I read.


Yes, you're correct.
Technically, he was not labeled as a "serial killer", because his crimes were "hate" crimes.
However, the experts couldn't figure out what else to call him.


Have you heard of ... Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo and/or Karla Homolka?


Not Olsen or Bernardo, but Karla Homolka...she rings a vague bell.
Something to do with a rape crime, I believe.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: whistledog on 01/03/07 at 11:22 pm


Yes, you're correct.
Technically, he was not labeled as a "serial killer", because his crimes were "hate" crimes.
However, the experts couldn't figure out what else to call him.

Not Olsen or Bernardo, but Karla Homolka...she rings a vague bell.
Something to do with a rape crime, I believe.


Homolka was the wife of Paul Bernardo.  Together, they raped and killed several teenage girls (including Homolka's sister).  When they were caught, she took a plea bargain, and only served 12 years.  They made a movie about her, but I never saw it.  That Red head chick from "That 70s Show" took the lead role

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/04/07 at 1:24 am


Homolka was the wife of Paul Bernardo.  Together, they raped and killed several teenage girls (including Homolka's sister).  When they were caught, she took a plea bargain, and only served 12 years.  They made a movie about her, but I never saw it.  That Red head chick from "That 70s Show" took the lead role


Nice!

Almost reminds me of Bianchi & Buono, in a way!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/04/07 at 6:12 am

What do you know about women serial killers?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/05/07 at 1:55 am


What do you know about women serial killers?


A bit. (See the posting about Aileen Wuornos)

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/05/07 at 2:31 pm


A bit. (See the posting about Aileen Wuornos)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/graphics/2003/11/21/bfail1.jpg


This her?^  ???

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/12/07 at 4:55 am

Indeed.

I saw a few interviews w/her, before her execution.
Amazing how she had a sense of humor, when she was talking.
She was even flirting with her interviewer, making comments about "conjugal visits", and so forth.

Another amazing thing I saw was about Ray Krone, falsely accused of "The Snaggletooth Killings".
He was on "Extreme Makeover", and his story was truly incredible.
He was actually saved a few days before he was sentenced to die.

Apparently, he was convicted more on his appearance than on the evidence- the teethmarks didn't match his bite!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/12/07 at 6:21 am


Indeed.

I saw a few interviews w/her, before her execution.
Amazing how she had a sense of humor, when she was talking.
She was even flirting with her interviewer, making comments about "conjugal visits", and so forth.

Another amazing thing I saw was about Ray Krone, falsely accused of "The Snaggletooth Killings".
He was on "Extreme Makeover", and his story was truly incredible.
He was actually saved a few days before he was sentenced to die.

Apparently, he was convicted more on his appearance than on the evidence- the teethmarks didn't match his bite!


That is one scary looking woman.  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 01/12/07 at 6:44 am

Hawk, what do you know about Ivan Milat ?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/15/07 at 4:59 am

The name rings a bell, but I can't quite focus. Refresh me, please.

Speking of refreshing, I saw something tonight about Peter "The Iceman" Kuklinski.
This fellow was trying to gun for the record, killing around 125 or so, although he is still feeding info to the Police about it.

I swear, what makes some turn into homicidal maniacs!
I'm surprised I haven't joined their number!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: mandamoo on 01/16/07 at 3:22 am


Hawk, what do you know about Ivan Milat ?




The name rings a bell, but I can't quite focus. Refresh me, please.



Try this ;

Ivan Milat

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 01/16/07 at 5:00 am



Try this ;

Ivan Milat


Coupled with his defence :

"I didn't do it"  :o :o :o :o ::) ::) ::)

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/16/07 at 6:23 am



Try this ;

Ivan Milat


That's one evil man.  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/16/07 at 10:16 am

OK. Thanks for the refresher.

Some of the "Backpacker Murders" were a bit brutal, weren't they?
He is one man I wouldn't like to invite to dinner!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/16/07 at 12:40 pm


OK. Thanks for the refresher.

Some of the "Backpacker Murders" were a bit brutal, weren't they?
He is one man I wouldn't like to invite to dinner!



So if you had a backpack,He'd murder you? ???

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/16/07 at 12:43 pm


So if you had a backpack,He'd murder you? ???


No. He was called "The Backpacker Murderer", because of 2 factors:
1. He did an extensive amount of hiking, in the hills & mountains.
2. He often carried body parts in his backpack- for convenient storage and dumping.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/16/07 at 12:44 pm


No. He was called "The Backpacker Murderer", because of 2 factors:
1. He did an extensive amount of hiking, in the hills & mountains.
2. He often carried body parts in his backpack- for convenient storage and dumping.


I wouldn't want him as my roomate.  :o

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: mandamoo on 01/17/07 at 1:17 am


No. He was called "The Backpacker Murderer", because of 2 factors:
1. He did an extensive amount of hiking, in the hills & mountains.
2. He often carried body parts in his backpack- for convenient storage and dumping.


Wrong serial killer  ;)




So if you had a backpack,He'd murder you? ???


Basically Howard, yes. He preyed on young travellers who were sightseeing on the cheap. Usually picking them up as they were hitchiking  :(



Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/17/07 at 4:30 am


Wrong serial killer  ;)

Basically Howard, yes. He preyed on young travellers who were sightseeing on the cheap. Usually picking them up as they were hitchiking  :(


He also admitted to stuffing body parts into backpacks, for storage and transport.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/17/07 at 5:59 am


He also admitted to stuffing body parts into backpacks, for storage and transport.


Was he also a cannibal too?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/18/07 at 6:14 am

Not as far as I'm aware.

That was left to the Ed Geins and Jeffrey Dahmers, as far as I know.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: KKay on 01/18/07 at 8:47 am

I"m looking online for the traits and characteristics of a child that would grow up to be a serial killer....there is too much infomration about this stuff!!!

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/18/07 at 4:20 pm


I"m looking online for the traits and characteristics of a child that would grow up to be a serial killer....there is too much infomration about this stuff!!!


Although there is no definitive link as to what makes children grow up to become serial killers, there have been some common threads linked between serial killers, as far as their background goes:

-Severe childhood traumas (usually the death of a parent or very close friend)
-Violence or abuse in their home lives (usually violent beatings by a parent; sometimes sexual)
-Inability to control their surroundings at home

The rest seems to be results from chemical imbalances in the brain.
There is a theory of a "killer" gene; however, there has been no conclusive proof.

The issues for a serial killer seem to be control and dominance over someone they view as weaker tham they are.
That's why you hear so many killers talk about not looking iunto the eyes of a victim- once any formal bond is established, they become more than "just a face in the crowd". The first step in any serial killer's head is dissociation, or putting a distance between the killer and the victim.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: KKay on 01/19/07 at 9:44 am

good description-
I also once read about the 'killer gene'
and how the typical upraising may not be responsible...but rather that
chemical imbalance or gene.

hmm...i want blood samples from all of you.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/19/07 at 1:53 pm


good description-
I also once read about the 'killer gene'
and how the typical upraising may not be responsible...but rather that
chemical imbalance or gene.

hmm...i want blood samples from all of you.



Would you take urine sample as well? ???

*starts peeing in small cup*  ;D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/19/07 at 4:14 pm


Would you take urine sample as well? ???
*starts peeing in small cup*  ;D


No. Howard.
We're talking DNA samples, not drug testing!

"And in other news today, online Society Member Howard has been positively identified as "The Yambag Killer"..."

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/19/07 at 9:34 pm


No. Howard.
We're talking DNA samples, not drug testing!

"And in other news today, online Society Member Howard has been positively identified as "The Yambag Killer"..."


Would you stop it with the yambags? ::)    ;D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/23/07 at 3:09 am

Sorry, but "The Au Bon Pain Killer" just doesn't have the same ring to it. ;)

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/23/07 at 6:23 am


Sorry, but "The Au Bon Pain Killer" just doesn't have the same ring to it. ;)


No You're right but there might be one someday.I would stab my old supervisor/boss and run off with the pastries. ;D

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: whistledog on 01/27/07 at 7:25 pm


Serial killer trading cards? That is a funny idea.


Why?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: whistledog on 01/27/07 at 7:42 pm


It is amusing that people would think of making them.


Why?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 01/27/07 at 10:19 pm

I wonder what kind of bubble gum they would put inside.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 03/29/07 at 2:47 am


I wonder what kind of bubble gum they would put inside.


If memory serves correctly, I believe the gum was filled with a soft, blood-red liquid inside.
Kinda fits the theme.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Howard on 03/29/07 at 6:02 am


If memory serves correctly, I believe the gum was filled with a soft, blood-red liquid inside.
Kinda fits the theme.


sounds tasty. :P

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 03/29/07 at 9:33 am

Just recently saw a movie about the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443706/ Zodiac killer (while I thought it could be good, it had a really long running time (for a theater movie - 2 hrs 40 mins.  So, I reluctantly went to see it.  I have got to recommend that movie wholeheartedly.  It was so well done that the time flew by and it did not seem that long.

We also saw Hannibal Rising, which was (although pretty gory) also was done rather well storywise and could fit in nicely with the rest of the Hannibal Lecter series.

Have you seen either of those movies?

What is your favorite serial killer movie or book?

Had your circumstances been different, would you have liked to be a criminal investigator tracking down serial murderers or maybe a book author about a particular case?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 03/29/07 at 10:12 am


Just recently saw a movie about the http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443706/ Zodiac killer (while I thought it could be good, it had a really long running time (for a theater movie - 2 hrs 40 mins.  So, I reluctantly went to see it.  I have got to recommend that movie wholeheartedly.  It was so well done that the time flew by and it did not seem that long.

We also saw Hannibal Rising, which was (although pretty gory) also was done rather well storywise and could fit in nicely with the rest of the Hannibal Lecter series.

Have you seen either of those movies?
What is your favorite serial killer movie or book?

Had your circumstances been different, would you have liked to be a criminal investigator tracking down serial murderers or maybe a book author about a particular case?


While I have not seen either film of which you speak, I am familiar with both cases.

My wife is a fiend for the Zodiac Killer.
In fact, I have not revealed this, because I doubt whether anyone would ever believe it, but you know those ciphers that the FBI haven't broken, except the 1st one?
Well, Melissa has managed to break the second one.
We have discovered at least a piece of his unique cryptography.

I, on the other hand, am fascinated by the more "bizarre" killers, primarily cannibals.
Dahmer attracted me at one time, as did Albert Cheaters.
But- without question, the one who fascinates me the most was Ed Gein.
He was the inspiration for the characters Hannibal Lechter, "Leatherface" Sawyer, and Norman Bates.

I probably would've liked to be a profiler, but I doubt I would've had the gumption to stick it out through 6-8 yrs. of college.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: AL-B Mk. III on 04/20/07 at 1:27 am

How would you compare spree-killers like Charles Starkweather, Charles Whitman, Richard Speck, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and now Cho Seung-Hui, to the aforementioned serial-killers (Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Son of Sam, BTK, etc.)? Obviously the methods and patterns of killing between the two groups are vastly different, but do you think there are any psychological similarities?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 04/20/07 at 3:12 am

Dr. Phil said that he blamed violent video games and violent movies for creating mass murderers (and like Al said above me - while Mass Murderers and Serial Killers are two different things...) what my point is... Are there... like... similarities between alot of serial killers?  Past childhood abuse or something?  You might have already talked about this topic before (sorry if you did.)


Second question (hey you get two for the price of one) - Have you ever read either of these two books?

Questions and Answers About Murder by David Lester

or

Until You Are Dead: The Book of Executions in America by F. Drimmer  http://www.amazon.com/Until-You-Are-Dead-Executions/dp/1558176187/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-7080726-9761440?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177056650&sr=1-2
I read them when I worked at the library and they are both good reads.  Thought provoking.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 04/20/07 at 4:37 am


How would you compare spree-killers like Charles Starkweather, Charles Whitman, Richard Speck, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and now Cho Seung-Hui, to the aforementioned serial-killers (Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Son of Sam, BTK, etc.)? Obviously the methods and patterns of killing between the two groups are vastly different, but do you think there are any psychological similarities?


Actually, I can kinda answer this intelligently.

Spree-Killers, or "Thrill Killers" as they are dubbed by the media, are more into the thrill of what they view as "obliteration of the species", which is primarily an emotional response.

Serials, on the other hand, use more forethought and cunning.

IMO, the only real similarities, psychologically speaking, are that the killers tend to be motivated simultaneously by the anger/pain of abuse and the exhiliaration of release by causing death.


Dr. Phil said that he blamed violent video games and violent movies for creating mass murderers (and like Al said above me - while Mass Murderers and Serial Killers are two different things...) what my point is... Are there... like... similarities between alot of serial killers?  Past childhood abuse or something?  You might have already talked about this topic before (sorry if you did.)


Second question (hey you get two for the price of one) - Have you ever read either of these two books?

Questions and Answers About Murder by David Lester
or
Until You Are Dead: The Book of Executions in America by F. Drimmer 

I read them when I worked at the library and they are both good reads.  Thought provoking.


Hmmmm.......

First off- Dr. Phil may be brilliant in matters of family therapy, but in the realm of killers, he's a charlatan.
Having said that: It has been proven that serial killers all have quite a few common background factors, which include:
-Childhood trauma
-Violent abuse, usually physical or sexual
-Families where one parent was more domineering over the other
-A mental condition of some sort, usually secondary to the abuse/trauma suffered in childhood/adolescence

Examples- Ed Gein was in an Oedipal relationship with a VERY domineering mother.
Edmund Emil Kemper was often locked in a cellar or closet, until the age of 14.
Peter Kurten, the "Vampire of Dusseldorf", was beaten almost daily.

Not all serial killers were poor bumpkins off the farm, who were shunned by society.
Examples- Ted Bundy was a college student, working on a Law degree. Handsome, charismatic, charming.
John Wayne Gacy was considered a humanitarian, because in his guise of "Pogo the Clown", he entertained sick children.
Jack the Ripper, it turns out, was part of a British line of Nobility.

So, in some ways, yes. There are some common factors with serials.

As to the books- no, I don't believe so, but I'll look into them.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: BooBooKitty on 05/14/07 at 6:05 pm


Have you read all of Ann Rule's crime books?



I love Ann Rule, I have read all her books. I was going to mention some of them to Hawk but then I seen it was already mentioned.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 12/17/07 at 1:30 am

Not so much a question, but, I am starting to read this article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette about Duquense University students that corresponded with a serial killer and thought you and perhaps others that might not know about the article would be interested.

Here it is:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07350/841430-85.stm

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: ladyhawk on 12/17/07 at 10:04 am

Wow what a piece. I actually was the one who turned Hawk on to serial killers. I find their mindset very intriguing. What those University students are doing is invaluable. I feel that we need to be able to understand them to catch them. Thanks for showing us this article. I enjoyed it. I think that while they are imprisoned we need to learn as much as we can about them.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: ninny on 12/17/07 at 10:38 pm

The only serial killer I have any knowledge about is Arthur Shawcross,who murdered 2 young children in 1972,went to prison for 15 years,and started killing prostitutes 1 year after getting out,he killed 11 in 2 years before getting caught masterbating at the crime scene
He also was into cannibalism.and claimed to be abused as a child.
So why do killers sometimes go back to the scene of the crime? Do they get a rush from this? do they think that they wont get caught?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: ladyhawk on 12/18/07 at 11:58 pm


The only serial killer I have any knowledge about is Arthur Shawcross,who murdered 2 young children in 1972,went to prison for 15 years,and started killing prostitutes 1 year after getting out,he killed 11 in 2 years before getting caught masterbating at the crime scene
He also was into cannibalism.and claimed to be abused as a child.
So why do killers sometimes go back to the scene of the crime? Do they get a rush from this? do they think that they wont get caught?


Most serial killers return to the scene of the crime. It helps them to relive the crime. Usually the crime is one of power and the memory of the power is what they are reliving. Genrally serial killers have a need to feel powerful because they genrally do not feel any power in their lives and the most obvious sign of complete power that a person has is to remove a persons life. They want to feel that power over and over, usually killers will take a memento from the crime to help relive it, but the source to where they feel the most powerful is at the scene. 

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/02/08 at 7:16 am


Most serial killers return to the scene of the crime. It helps them to relive the crime. Usually the crime is one of power and the memory of the power is what they are reliving. Genrally serial killers have a need to feel powerful because they genrally do not feel any power in their lives and the most obvious sign of complete power that a person has is to remove a persons life. They want to feel that power over and over, usually killers will take a memento from the crime to help relive it, but the source to where they feel the most powerful is at the scene. 


Most of this is true, except that in the case of cannibalistic killers, they have a nasty tendency to eat their trophies.
Example- Ed Gein kept body parts of some of his victims, and made furniture.
However, all anyone ever saw him eat was baked beans from the tin.
He used this to get invited into homes of potential victims- usually, women who resembled his mother.
When his house was raided, they found quite the supply of red meat.
One rumor, is that the Sheriff actually took a bite out of what he thought was deer meat. He threw up when Gein told him it was from Mary Hogan's thigh.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: robby76 on 01/19/08 at 7:48 am

Have you seen / what did you think of the tv movie "To Catch A Killer" about John Wayne Gacy?

http://services.windowsmedia.com/dvdcover/cov150/drt000/t036/t03608sdgdp.jpg

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: bookmistress4ever on 01/19/08 at 1:43 pm



When his house was raided, they found quite the supply of red meat.
One rumor, is that the Sheriff actually took a bite out of what he thought was deer meat. He threw up when Gein told him it was from Mary Hogan's thigh.


I'm really wondering how true that rumor was though, because when they do crime scene investigations, I really doubt that the investigators help themselves to what's in the fridge when they are hungry. 

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: danootaandme on 01/19/08 at 1:44 pm

Ever heard of Pomeroy?  I read a book about him recently and, since I am in Southie almost every week, I spent an hour or so tracing his steps.


www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/pomeroy/3.html

When you do read, don't stop at the first incarceration, that isn't the end of the story, in fact it is pretty much just the beginning.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: HawkTheSlayer on 01/19/08 at 4:46 pm


Have you seen / what did you think of the tv movie "To Catch A Killer" about John Wayne Gacy?

http://services.windowsmedia.com/dvdcover/cov150/drt000/t036/t03608sdgdp.jpg


Not as of yet, but I will try to.
The one I did see starred Mark Holton, and he did a eerie job of portraying Gacy.http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/19/76/36m.jpg


I'm really wondering how true that rumor was though, because when they do crime scene investigations, I really doubt that the investigators help themselves to what's in the fridge when they are hungry. 


You have to remember, this was back in like 1955, in a small Wisconsin town. In those days, with small town Sheriffs, they had this unspoken rule that they could 'help themselves' to anything that wasn't  blatant Official Crime Scene evidence. I tend to lean more toward belief, myself.


Ever heard of Pomeroy?  I read a book about him recently and, since I am in Southie almost every week, I spent an hour or so tracing his steps.


www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/pomeroy/3.html

When you do read, don't stop at the first incarceration, that isn't the end of the story, in fact it is pretty much just the beginning.


Pomeroy is a name I am a bit familiar with.
However, I will read the article, to refresh myself.
-It is kinda freaky, isn't it, to be able to retrace the steps of a killer?

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: danootaandme on 01/20/08 at 5:54 am


Not as of yet, but I will try to.
The one I did see starred Mark Holton, and he did a eerie job of portraying Gacy.http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/19/76/36m.jpg

You have to remember, this was back in like 1955, in a small Wisconsin town. In those days, with small town Sheriffs, they had this unspoken rule that they could 'help themselves' to anything that wasn't  blatant Official Crime Scene evidence. I tend to lean more toward belief, myself.

Pomeroy is a name I am a bit familiar with.
However, I will read the article, to refresh myself.
-It is kinda freaky, isn't it, to be able to retrace the steps of a killer?


Way, freaky.  Pomeroy was, as far as I know, the youngest mass murderer, and as you will read, the things he did to those kids was beyond comprehension.  All of it learned at home from an abusive father, which should be a caution to people who keep children in an abusive relationship trying to keep the family together.  He  also spent more time in solitary than any one person 40+ years in Charlestown Prison.  The prison isn't there anymore, but I remember when it was.  It is now the sight of Bunker Hill Community College. There is a bridge that was called  "Prison Point Bridge", they disneyed that to the Gilmore bridge, which is weird because that name evokes the name of another famous killer.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: Andria on 11/01/08 at 2:49 am

Do you know who Ottis Elwood Toole is? Hint: His most infamous crime (which may in fact have been committed by Milwaukee's infamous cannibal killer when he was in the area rather than by Ottis himself) spearheaded the launch of a true-crime show on a major US broadcast network. All I know is  that he was the alleged killer of "America's Most Wanted" host John Walsh's son in 1980 (the year I was born!), was never convicted, was allegedly gay, was the partner of Henry Lee Lucas and that he drove a black-and-white 1973 Cadillac. If anyone knows anything else, please respond.

Subject: Re: Ask Hawk About: Serial Killers

Written By: danootaandme on 11/01/08 at 4:15 am

Ottis was another killer who was abused as a child.  He went to prison for murder and died there.

Check for new replies or respond here...