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Subject: Prisoners of War

Written By: Syncronos on 03/24/03 at 08:26 a.m.

Greetings all. I started this thread to get the feel of how our little group thinks of our prisoners of war. After seeing it on TV and reading it on the news article sites, I am saddened that the loss of life.  :'(

Regardless of how I feel about Bush and his motives for the war, it's too late to turn back now, and my undying loyalty and support goes to the troops who are over there in the sand fighting for us.

And also, I have a question. Perhaps you guys can answer it...my friends and I haven't been able to figure it out. Can someone explain to me how a supply convoy can make a 'wrong turn' into hostile territory in the age of global positioning satellites and U2 spy planes? I'm no military strategist, but logic dictates that you want to keep the supplies in the back and well defended, for if you cut off the supply line, the troops will eventually been worn down by attrition. Now, don't get me wrong. I know people are dying for someone to slip up as bad as Michael Moore (who, by the way, who doesn't know the meaning of the word 'we' and needs to be shipped off to Cuba to see just how free he really is). My prayers are with the people that were taken hostage, and I hope they are returned safely. However, it's very odd that it was a 'supply convoy' that was taken, don't you think?

I'd like to hear everyone's comments on this.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Paul_S. on 03/24/03 at 10:03 a.m.

I don't know why they made a supply convoy the rear guard either.  Rear guard always has to make it on their own.  How could a supply convoy survive?  I suspect that's exactly why a supply convoy was ambushed, the Iraqis knew they could take on a lightly defended group of soliders that were not as well trained or armed as say, the Marines.   

Unfortunately things like this happen in war.  Look at how many chopper accidents we've had.  This is why some of us are pro-peace.  We don't want to see any deaths, especially from our side.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Rice Cube on 03/24/03 at 12:20 a.m.

I certainly hope the POWs are treated well, but unfortunately I highly doubt it :-/  What I've heard thus far is disgusting.

Quoting:
This is why some of us are pro-peace.  We don't want to see any deaths, especially from our side.
End Quote



With all due respect, just because one supports the war doesn't mean one does not also want peace.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: 80sRocked on 03/24/03 at 12:47 a.m.


Quoting:
With all due respect, just because one supports the war doesn't mean one does not also want peace.
End Quote



Well said.

I support this war 110%.  However, obviously it would have been great if it could have been settled without war.  Just because I support this war, doesn't mean I want people to die.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Shaz on 03/24/03 at 12:48 a.m.


Quoting:
I certainly hope the POWs are treated well, but unfortunately I highly doubt it :-/  What I've heard thus far is disgusting.


With all due respect, just because one supports the war doesn't mean one does not also want peace.
End Quote



I agree on the first point
and "Hear Hear" on the second!

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Don_Carlos on 03/24/03 at 01:29 p.m.

Do you remember M*A*S*H?  I remember a line from one of the first ones.  Henry Blake told Hawkeye that at command school they told him that there are two rules of war.  Rule one: young men die.  Rule two: Doctors can't change rule one. (Unless you happen to be G.W.Bush, D. Chaney, and crew, who all sat out Vietnam in the comfort of the good ol' U.S. of A. snorting their coke, protected by their influencial friends and relatives)  Old men sending young people to die.  How sad :-[
I too hope those prisoners of war are treated humanely

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Steve_H on 03/24/03 at 01:38 p.m.

The Coalition, today, is reminding Iraq that it is a blatent violation of the Geneva Convention to abuse and humiliate prisoners of war, and anyone doing so will be charged and prosecuted for war crimes.

Quoting:Can someone explain to me how a supply convoy can make a 'wrong turn' into hostile territory in the age of global positioning satellites and U2 spy planes? I'm no military strategist, but logic dictates that you want to keep the supplies in the back and well defended, for if you cut off the supply line, the troops will eventually been worn down by attrition. End Quote



Who knows?  One guess is not every unit is supplied with GPS.  Supplies and lines of communication get more complicated and difficult to maintain the closer the Coalition gets to Baghdad.  And the Coalition is responsible for the supplying of captured territory.  So, capturing Basra makes you responsible for its food, fresh water, etc.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Taoist on 03/24/03 at 02:36 p.m.

Quoting:
The Coalition, today, is reminding Iraq that it is a blatent violation of the Geneva Convention to abuse and humiliate prisoners of war, and anyone doing so will be charged and prosecuted for war crimes.
End Quote


Absolutely right!
Although it's a bit late for the US to suddenly find it's copy of the Geneva convention isn't it?
What about Afghan POWs, the US humiliated them, denied them basic human rights and tortured 2 of them to death!  Does this statement mean we'll be seeing prosecutions from the US?  I don't think so  >:(
Just one more example of the cloud of hypocrisy that this war is being fought under.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Syncronos on 03/24/03 at 02:58 p.m.

Well, my only reason for questioning it is it just seems too...'convenient.' Note: BEFORE I give my reason, let me make CLEAR that I am deeply sorry that US soldiers have been taken hostage and possibly killed, and I pray for their safe return. But, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.

Now...consider this. Bush wages war on Iraq. Saddam is a bad man, so the war is justified to some extent. However, people both within the US and abroad call the war a crime against humanity, etc. etc. We've seen how high this reaches with Mr. Moore speaking last night on the Oscars. Now...history has proven that a war won't fly without the will of the people. World War 2 had the full support of the people. We had women working in the factories, people cutting back on meat to support the war effort, etc. To contrast, Vietnam was a different conflict. Although Nixon kept trying to trump it up, nobody bought it. People called the war unwinnable. And even with thousands of loyal soldiers getitng drafted and sent over there, there were thousands of people screaming 'Hell No, We Won't Go!' over here.

Now, take this conflict. As said before, it is justified to an extent, but people are still frowning upon the US. Protesters are out in full force, people are booing the National Anthem, etc. So, with such resistance, 'the powers that be' (we'll call them) know they must rally the support of the people or else they'll have to face conflicts on two fronts- the Iraqis over there and the people over here. So...'someone' gives the wrong directions to a supply convoy, and dumps 12 people from Fort Bliss, Texas into the hands of the Iraqis. Now...there's a FACE to the conflict. We're no longer fighting for oil or for Iraqi freedom, we're fighting for Shoshawna Johnson from good ol' El Paso, Texas! Now, you can downplay oil. You can even downplay the Iraqis. But I dare any of you to say that the US won't go and fight for their missing people. Such is not so. You see, now the US HAS to go through with this, or else it'll lose face in the eyes of the world. How would it look? "The Iraqis took US soldiers hostage, and the Americans left their people behind." You see?

My reasoning is that this hostage crisis- and it IS a crisis, make no mistake- wasn't entirely accidental. That's what I think...what do you guys think?

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Paul_S. on 03/24/03 at 03:20 p.m.

Quoting:
Well, my only reason for questioning it is it just seems too...'convenient.' Note: BEFORE I give my reason, let me make CLEAR that I am deeply sorry that US soldiers have been taken hostage and possibly killed, and I pray for their safe return. But, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.

Now...consider this. Bush wages war on Iraq. Saddam is a bad man, so the war is justified to some extent. However, people both within the US and abroad call the war a crime against humanity, etc. etc. We've seen how high this reaches with Mr. Moore speaking last night on the Oscars. Now...history has proven that a war won't fly without the will of the people. World War 2 had the full support of the people. We had women working in the factories, people cutting back on meat to support the war effort, etc. To contrast, Vietnam was a different conflict. Although Nixon kept trying to trump it up, nobody bought it. People called the war unwinnable. And even with thousands of loyal soldiers getitng drafted and sent over there, there were thousands of people screaming 'Hell No, We Won't Go!' over here.

Now, take this conflict. As said before, it is justified to an extent, but people are still frowning upon the US. Protesters are out in full force, people are booing the National Anthem, etc. So, with such resistance, 'the powers that be' (we'll call them) know they must rally the support of the people or else they'll have to face conflicts on two fronts- the Iraqis over there and the people over here. So...'someone' gives the wrong directions to a supply convoy, and dumps 12 people from Fort Bliss, Texas into the hands of the Iraqis. Now...there's a FACE to the conflict. We're no longer fighting for oil or for Iraqi freedom, we're fighting for Shoshawna Johnson from good ol' El Paso, Texas! Now, you can downplay oil. You can even downplay the Iraqis. But I dare any of you to say that the US won't go and fight for their missing people. Such is not so. You see, now the US HAS to go through with this, or else it'll lose face in the eyes of the world. How would it look? "The Iraqis took US soldiers hostage, and the Americans left their people behind." You see?

My reasoning is that this hostage crisis- and it IS a crisis, make no mistake- wasn't entirely accidental. That's what I think...what do you guys think?
End Quote



I don't trust George Bush Jr. at all.  I think he's a puppet of the military industrial complex and the far right.   I don't trust many in our government.  This war with Iraq was decided long before Dubya even took office.  9-11 gave Bush Jr. the perfect oppurtunity to  sell this war to the American people.  But make no mistake, they were going to invade Iraq anyway.  This war has nothing to do with Saddam or liberating Iraq and "freeing the Iraqi people".  Nonsense.  It's about the oil and putting in a pro-American regime in Iraq.  And thanks to Osama bin Laden, Dubya can play the "terrorist/9-11 card" (the same way Johnny Cochrane played the "race card" in the O.J. trial) to silence anyone who critisizes or opposes him.  Without September 11th, Bush would have had a much, MUCH harder time in selling this war to America and the world.  But the right wing has skillfully played the terrorist/9-11 card to silence their critics.  

Now with saying all that, I can never believe that the U.S. Army would purposefully betray their own guys and lead them into enemy territory to be ambushed.  They're too loyal to each other.  "Leave no man (or woman) behind".  They would never do what your theory proposes.  They don't really care about Washington politics, but they are very loyal to each other.

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: Syncronos on 03/24/03 at 04:20 p.m.

The US Army? No, of course not. That would betray everything they fight for. But who controls the army? Are you saying that it didn't happen or that it couldn't happen, Paul S.?  

Now, Rice and everyone, I'm not turning into Mel Gibson in 'Conspiracy Theory,' OK? I'm just batting this idea around to see what kind of feedback it gets. I'm no historian, or a military strategist. But from what I do know of US military history, this whole deal just seems to convenient to me is all. You're right, Paul, Dubya did play the 9-11 card...until he could't find Osama. Now he needs a new card to play.  

Subject: Re: Prisoners of War

Written By: My_name_is_Kenny on 03/24/03 at 04:26 p.m.

Actually, it works pretty well as a conspiracy theory, Sync.  It's compelling, it's rational, and it's for the most part unproveable.