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Subject: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Goreripper on 08/07/03 at 06:55 p.m.

The first of the terrorists to be charged with the bombings in Bali, Indonesia in October last year was sentenced to die by firing squad yesterday. He believes he will die a martyr as the people he helped to kill were infidels, namely Australian and European Christians and Balinese Buddhists, and as such will be rewarded in his Islamic Afterlife. This interested me because it again raises one of those theological issues that have been appearing here lately. Most of us believe that, as a killer, he will be condemned to the pits of Hell, and yet this man, and others like him regardless of faith who have killed in the name of God over the centuries, believe that they will go to Heaven or be otherwise rewarded. How can we say who is right? Indeed it is anomalies such as this which further cause me to put my faith in the idea that death is final, and both a punishment and reward in itself regardless of what one does.

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: philbo_baggins on 08/08/03 at 03:23 a.m.

Personally, I rest secure in my belief that when he dies, he's dead.  No more bombings, but also no fiery pit and no willing virgins - it's a pretty stupid idea, if you think about it...

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: goodsin on 08/08/03 at 04:25 a.m.


Quoting:
Most of us believe that, as a killer, he will be condemned to the pits of Hell, and yet this man, and others like him regardless of faith who have killed in the name of God over the centuries, believe that they will go to Heaven or be otherwise rewarded.
End Quote



Taking this concept further, if there is just one heaven & one hell for all religions, surely these places of exultation or damnation will contain mixed 'virtuous' & 'sinful' people of differing religions?? Will this mean that the perpetual wars we endure on this earth due to peoples' differing ideas on how to worship God may continue in the afterlife?? (Hope not, if it is this way I'll go the 'suicide & limbo' route to avoid it...)

If there were seperate 'heavens' & 'hells' for each different religious perspective, I wonder if it's possible to change your religion in the afterlife, & henceforth get a transfer to a more pleasant place of soul-abode?

Does anyone know if good Christian soldiers who kill people in the course of their duty go to heaven or hell??

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Bobby on 08/08/03 at 06:02 a.m.

Following on from Goodsin's comments, I reckon there should be internet cafe's so like-minded religious people could talk to each other on chatrooms in the afterlife while they are sitting on a cloud or burning eternally - Imagine the conversation:

"What's it like down your end? It's flippin' hot in here"

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 08/08/03 at 11:32 a.m.

What a very intreging question. Of course the answer lies in what your belief about the "after-life" is. The condemned feels that he will be rewarded while one of his victims (including the families of those who died) feels he will be punished. The real answer is that we DO NOT KNOW! However, my belief is that justice will be served but we won't see it. I believe that the Universe has a way of working things out. It goes with the Wiccan three-fold rule-whatever you do will come back three-fold. If you do something good, you will get that back three times. If you do something not so good, you will also get that back three times. It may not happen in this lifetime. It may happen in the next. For all we know, one of the victims may have been a terrorist in another life. I am not saying that that justifies what this guy did. I am just saying that justice will be served and we (humans) will have abolutely nothing to do with serving it. It is out of our hands.



Cat

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: gamblefish on 08/08/03 at 06:00 p.m.

From a Christian perspective...Hey! I heard that groan...knock it off!! ;D

Anyway, from a Christian perspective...without Christ he will be in hell (separated from God) forever... :'(

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Hoeveel on 08/08/03 at 06:48 p.m.

gambelfish, i hear from a Catholic perspective i hear that anyone can get into Heaven whether they are xian or not.

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: gamblefish on 08/08/03 at 08:21 p.m.

Hoeveel, don't believe everything you hear...especially from a catholic perspective... ;)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Hoeveel on 08/08/03 at 08:24 p.m.

gambelfish, i don't believe most of what i hear from a Christian perspective, if it's all the same to you :)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: gamblefish on 08/09/03 at 04:36 a.m.

'kay  :-*

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: goodsin on 08/09/03 at 04:52 a.m.


Quoting:
What a very intreging question. Of course the answer lies in what your belief about the "after-life" is.

It goes with the Wiccan three-fold rule-whatever you do will come back three-fold. If you do something good, you will get that back three times. If you do something not so good, you will also get that back three times. It may not happen in this lifetime. It may happen in the next. End Quote



Hey, some good points there, Cat. You mention Wicca- which as far as I understand is a form of Pagan religion- do you know much about it?? If so, what's the Wiccan opinion on the course of events after this life?? I only ask out of interest...

I agree that we'll never know what happens after death until the time comes. I'm glad I don't know, so I can concentrate on living a good life here & now. I'd like to think there was something else, but am reassured by the fact that my survival is guaranteed, at least on a chemical & energetic level. I may not survive as a whole, but my component parts & energies will disperse & become part of everyone elses' living world. As someone famous (can't remember who) said "when I die, if I find I don't exist, I'll be most disappointed"...  ;)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: goodsin on 08/09/03 at 05:19 a.m.


Quoting:
Following on from Goodsin's comments, I reckon there should be internet cafe's so like-minded religious people could talk to each other on chatrooms in the afterlife while they are sitting on a cloud or burning eternally - Imagine the conversation:

"What's it like down your end? It's flippin' hot in here"
End Quote


Good one Bobby. 'Ethernet' would be a good name for this system, were it not already copyrighted here. How would they decide to administer it?? They'd have to have a council of 'hellers & heaveners' as network webmasters, to stop any arguments between the bosses as to content etc. I believe a company in this lifetime has already got a headstart in setting this up, working from the hell side- they're called 'Demon Internet'. ;D (NB:this is in no way intended to reflect the reality of Demons' operations). Any other suggestions of names etc. for this (increasingly complex) new concept?? (Hellnet??)
One thing I did think, was that those in the afterlife obviously haven't yet got computers. How many mediums do you know who receive their communications from the dead via e-mail?? I'm sure God, Satan et al would see the benefits. Less vagueness in communications from the dead, possibility to monitor these communications remotely (thus cutting down on usage of omnipotence- does anyone know if Satan even has this power??), and a more fulfilling time for those on Earth who receive messages from the dead- an end result of this last benefit would be what we've all wished for at one time or another- a happy medium ;D (groan...)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Goreripper on 08/09/03 at 07:08 a.m.


Quoting:
Hey, some good points there, Cat. You mention Wicca- which as far as I understand is a form of Pagan religion- do you know much about it?? If so, what's the Wiccan opinion on the course of events after this life?? I only ask out of interest...
End Quote



Wicca is modern paganism. More precisely, it's modern witchcraft. It rose to prominence in the early 1950s, based on the teachings of a British occultist whose name I can't recall right now. Many of its adherents will suggest that it's actually older than that, but it's not, although the basic principles of it go back to pre-Christian Europe.

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: goodsin on 08/09/03 at 07:52 a.m.


Quoting:


Wicca is modern paganism.

Many of its adherents will suggest that it's actually older than that, but it's not, although the basic principles of it go back to pre-Christian Europe.

End Quote


Thanks 'ripper. As far as I understand (and at risk of receiving many replies from those who know better) Wicca is a more modern form of Paganism, with named male & female deities/ godheads. Several of my friend s whom are/ were coven members have left Wiccan covens & reverted to more traditional forms of Pagan worship, feeling the Wiccan approach in some covens to be too rigidly ritualised.

If anyone does know what the Wiccan approach to existence after death entails, please enlighten me... though not a member of any organised religion myself, I enjoy studying religions & their quirks (and sometimes assimilate areas into my own belief system)- I daresay I could find this info through a search engine, but it's more fun to get this info from what seems to be a pretty knowledgeable bunch of surfers like yourselves... ;)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: John_Harvey on 08/09/03 at 09:17 p.m.

Quoting:
Hoeveel, don't believe everything you hear...especially from a catholic perspective... ;)
End Quote


Hey! I resent that.

Anywho, I don't think we're in a possition to judge. I am not God and I do not know how he decides who gets in and who doesn't.

If I had to take a guess, I'd guess that he would be spared from Hell and spend a long time in Purgatory. I don't think anyone is going to Hell. I don't think anyone deserves to be out FOREVER regardless of their sins. I think we're all in like... um... a guy whose name rhymes with "in". (after a hefty sentence in purgatory for big time sinners.).

That's what I believe, whether it's right or wrong.

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: gamblefish on 08/10/03 at 04:51 a.m.

Sorry John, didn't mean to offend...

I just don't understand how the Catholic Church can supposedly base their "religion" on the work of Christ and then deny most of His word.

As for sin, yes, we all share in that. That's what Christ came to fix.  ;)

Subject: Re: Terrorist to be executed: Heaven or Hell?

Written By: Bobby on 08/10/03 at 04:29 p.m.

Quoting:
If I had to take a guess, I'd guess that he would be spared from Hell and spend a long time in Purgatory. I don't think anyone is going to Hell. That's what I believe, whether it's right or wrong.
End Quote



Hmm! I believe that there is no hell. I can't understand that a loving God would sadistically torture bad people. I also take Ecclesiastes 9:5 into account:

"For the living know they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten."

New International Version