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Subject: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Numnum on 02/17/04 at 01:08 a.m.

I've noticed in several Ovaltine adverts over the past few months that some of the kids in the adverts can't read!!!  :o
There always seems to be one kid who has to ask another if this is either "Nesquik" or "cocoa" when they are standing in front of a stand that clearly states that it is Ovaltine!

Are they maybe trying to say that if they drink Ovaltine it will help the kids to read big stands properly?? :D

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: goodsin on 03/27/04 at 10:22 a.m.


Quoting:
I've noticed in several Ovaltine adverts over the past few months that some of the kids in the adverts can't read!!!  :o
There always seems to be one kid who has to ask another if this is either "Nesquik" or "cocoa" when they are standing in front of a stand that clearly states that it is Ovaltine!

Are they maybe trying to say that if they drink Ovaltine it will help the kids to read big stands properly?? :D
End Quote


Ovaltine was originally designed as a weight-gain aid for those between the ages of 13-19. The aim was to make anyone who drank it an "Oval-Teen"... :P

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Mr_80s on 03/27/04 at 11:10 a.m.

Quoting:
Ovaltine was originally designed as a weight-gain aid for those between the ages of 13-19. The aim was to make anyone who drank it an "Oval-Teen"... :P
End Quote



Sorry, but not even close!

Ovaltine is yet another one of those products that came from another country, but suffered through a translation error (like "Monkey Kong", which became "Donkey Kong").

Ovaltine was made in Switzerland in 1904 as "Ovo-Maltine".  One of it's promary ingrediants was eggs, hence "ovo".  And it was a malted beverage, so "maltine".   When it was first exported to England in 1909, they translated the name wrong, and got "Ovaltine".

For a more complete history of this, check out:
http://www.ia.net/~gheller/ovalgon/ovaltine.htm

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: LyricBoy on 03/27/04 at 01:22 p.m.


Quoting:


Sorry, but not even close!

Ovaltine is yet another one of those products that came from another country, but suffered through a translation error (like "Monkey Kong", which became "Donkey Kong").

Ovaltine was made in Switzerland in 1904 as "Ovo-Maltine".  One of it's promary ingrediants was eggs, hence "ovo".  And it was a malted beverage, so "maltine".   When it was first exported to England in 1909, they translated the name wrong, and got "Ovaltine".

For a more complete history of this, check out:
http://www.ia.net/~gheller/ovalgon/ovaltine.htm
End Quote



But the jar is round.  Shouldn't they call it RoundTine?  :P

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 03/27/04 at 06:34 p.m.

I have noticed a steady decline in vocabulary, spelling, and penmanship (handwriting skills, to be gender neutral).  I also find teens and college students woefully lacking in the subjects of literature and history.
I don't have examples on the tip of my tongue, but I'll add some when they come to me.
I don't think today's kids are less intelligent.  I find people under 25 take to computer learning and visual learning much better than I ever did.  However, the education system is placing emphasizing less and less core curriculum, and more self-esteem and cultural sensitivity issues.
There was no need to sacrifice one for the other.  There is a big problem with PC educators and Christian fundamentalists alike interfering with the development of texts and the content of curriculum.  When you're not allowed to risk offending ANYBODY, there's not much knowledge you can impart!

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: jesuisunpizza on 03/27/04 at 10:17 p.m.

I hope no one is making a conclusion over an Ovaltine advert.

But I would say today's youth (that's me) aren't illiterate, we are just technology dependent.

We have poor handwriting because we've typed on the computer for such a large portion of our life.

We can't do simple math questions because we are used to have a calculator in our hands during math classes.

When I'm older I will look at the youth and say something similar to what is being said in here. It's just a generation gap thing.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Dagwood on 03/28/04 at 07:30 a.m.


Quoting:

We can't do simple math questions because we are used to have a calculator in our hands during math classes.
End Quote



Ok, this just drives me insane.  When I was in high school in the 80's we had calculators with all the nifty functions but we weren't allowed to used them unless it was in calculus.  Why do the teachers allow calculators to be used in class?  It seems like it defeats the purpose of teaching math.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: gamblefish on 03/28/04 at 07:51 a.m.


Quoting:


Ok, this just drives me insane.  When I was in high school in the 80's we had calculators with all the nifty functions but we weren't allowed to used them unless it was in calculus.  Why do the teachers allow calculators to be used in class?  It seems like it defeats the purpose of teaching math.
End Quote



When I was in high school we had these little abacus thingys but we were never allowed to use them either...  :P

On a side note, what drives me cuckoo is the way all these so-called music artists have to misspell every single song title not to mention their own names...talk about illiterate!! It just seems so cliché now.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 03/28/04 at 08:43 a.m.


Quoting:


Ok, this just drives me insane.  When I was in high school in the 80's we had calculators with all the nifty functions but we weren't allowed to used them unless it was in calculus.  Why do the teachers allow calculators to be used in class?  It seems like it defeats the purpose of teaching math.
End Quote


A lot of math teachers don't know how to teach math anyway.  I don't know if my math *disability* was innate or came about through incompetent teaching.  What I do know was that I didn't catch on to math as fast as other kids, so I fell further and further behind.  I never even learned to do basic algebra, but still managed to graduate high school.
When I tried to get through algebra in college, I found I literally COULDN'T do it.  I had a tutor and I would try and try and try, but my brain just couldn't make the right connections.  Math beyond arithmetic is gobbledy-gook to me to this day.
Maybe I had a math disability from the start, but maybe with adequate teaching in the formative years I could whipped it.  The brain organically becomes less and less receptive as we age.  I'm not getting into the politics of public education, but when we don't get the basics in the formative years, we may never be able to.
You can reason that most adults do math on calculators these days, so there's no real need to know how to do it in your head.  However, doing math in your head, like learning a foreign language, increases the brain's analytical and reasoning capacity--it makes you SMARTER, pushing keys on a calculator does not.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Kenlos on 03/28/04 at 10:49 a.m.

Quoting:


Ok, this just drives me insane.  When I was in high school in the 80's we had calculators with all the nifty functions but we weren't allowed to used them unless it was in calculus.  Why do the teachers allow calculators to be used in class?  It seems like it defeats the purpose of teaching math.
End Quote



When I was in High School they let us use calculators, but then I got to college and except for calculus the professors won't let you come with in 100 feet of a calculator.  Atleast thats been my experence.  To be honest I find math easier when not using a calculator because if you imput something wrong in a calculator and you get the answer wrong you cant really got back and see where you screwed up, but working stuff out on your own you can go back and look at what you did wrong and fix it much easier.  So now I only use a calculator as a last resort.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Howard on 03/28/04 at 12:35 a.m.


Quoting:


But the jar is round.  Shouldn't they call it RoundTine?  :P
End Quote



sorry,LB doesn't even click. :)


Howard

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Princess_Sunshine on 03/30/04 at 10:34 p.m.

I am 19, and I am very literate, I love to read (I plan on beginning Paradise Lost, this summer), I have realized that with the math we are required to do, calculators are a must, otherwise it would take far to long, and we would not learn everything required, however, I can still add, subtract, multiply, and divide in my head.  Am I dependent on my computer, sure, do I fell lost when the power goes off, never, I LOVE the peace and quiet, not so much when I am living on my own, but when living at home with my parents, I love power outages, maybe because we have to shut the store down, because without a cash register, levying off taxes is much to hard.  And I have very nice handwriting, that anybody can read.   I am very literate, however, my brother whom is 2 years younger, has very bad handwriting, and won't do math without a calculator, and must use a computer for writing anything.  I think it is all about the person, its not our whole generation that is illiterate

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: My_name_is_Kenny on 03/30/04 at 10:41 p.m.

wut?

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: pennsygirl on 03/31/04 at 05:45 a.m.

I think people let it slide today alot more than they used to. There's a new restaurant opening in my neighborhood, and there's a big sign outside the place that says "COMMING SOON!".  I had to bust out laughing when I saw it.  You mean to tell me that no one that looked a the sign before it went up realized that coming has only one "m"?  

There's also a big debate going on in NYC over passing children on to the next grade when they haven't mastered the basic skills of the grade they are currently in.  Some feel the child will be embarrassed if he or she is held back. I think it would be way more damaging to a child to pass them on from grade to grade and then find they can't read or write on the day they graduate high school.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 03/31/04 at 09:40 a.m.


Quoting:
I think people let it slide today alot more than they used to. There's a new restaurant opening in my neighborhood, and there's a big sign outside the place that says "COMMING SOON!".  I had to bust out laughing when I saw it.  You mean to tell me that no one that looked a the sign before it went up realized that coming has only one "m"?  

There's also a big debate going on in NYC over passing children on to the next grade when they haven't mastered the basic skills of the grade they are currently in.  Some feel the child will be embarrassed if he or she is held back. I think it would be way more damaging to a child to pass them on from grade to grade and then find they can't read or write on the day they graduate high school.
End Quote


LOL!  It's not just youth.  I've seen middle aged folks make some real gaffs as well.  F'rinstance, there's the confusion over the apostrophe.  A lot of kids don't (dont) use it all.  Confusion is greater when it comes to ownership rather than contraction.  
I'll never forget the sign I saw on a hardware store before Fathers Day.  The sign suggested shopping there for your father becase "Dads Love Tools."  Only they wrote
"Dad's Love Tools."  Now, there's a big difference between "Dads Love Tools" and "Dad's Love Tools"!
:o

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: philbo_baggins on 03/31/04 at 09:54 a.m.


Quoting:
I'll never forget the sign I saw on a hardware store before Fathers Day.  The sign suggested shopping there for your father becase "Dads Love Tools."  Only they wrote
"Dad's Love Tools."  Now, there's a big difference between "Dads Love Tools" and "Dad's Love Tools"!
:o
End Quote


"Dad's Love Tools" - does it? (or possibly tools, plural?)
"Dads' Love Tools" - probably oughtn't to be mentioned here

Maybe someday, I'll get this one onto the syllabus...

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: 80s_cheerleader on 03/31/04 at 10:40 a.m.


Quoting:

But I would say today's youth (that's me) aren't illiterate, we are just technology dependent.

We have poor handwriting because we've typed on the computer for such a large portion of our life.

We can't do simple math questions because we are used to have a calculator in our hands during math classes.

End Quote



As a parent, with 2 kids in school now, I have to disagree with this.  My oldest (who's in 3rd grade) is in an advanced math class and they aren't allowed to use calculators for the most part.  They have them, but rarely use them.

As far as the handwriting, it IS a top priority in the schools, at least here.  My sons DO take a computer class, but other than that, they are not allowed to type anything.  My oldest has done 3 reports this year, and all had to be printed.

Granted, my sons are still young, and maybe the use of calculators & computers will change as they get older, but for now, they aren't allowed for the most part.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Princess_Sunshine on 03/31/04 at 12:18 a.m.

We were allowed calculators once we got into the 7-9 grades, I can't remember when, but my brother who is only 2 years younger was allowed/encouraged to use a calculator in grade 4/5, now, we can have calculators, but there's no need in the course I am in!  I found that once teachers realized everybody was using calculators, they started adding more questions to tests and homework, and my teachers always wanted us to show our work (not mandatory with all teachers though) I prefer, for the most part, the old pen and paper way, easier to go back and find your mistakes.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 04/01/04 at 09:46 a.m.

Getting back to spelling, what is this American obsession with ending certain words in "-ite?" You know, like "lite," "tonite," "brite," etc.? Even "rite" is used as in the word "right" instead of "rite" as in "rite of passage." Why is this? It's even caught on to Canadian culture, and I've noticed people from other countries with a very limited knowledge of the English language adopting this fallacy as if it's supposed to be correct because it's part of American language!! Do people have something against ending words in "-ight?" Is it one too many letters to write or type? Because it doesn't look good at all!!!

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: 80s_cheerleader on 04/01/04 at 09:52 a.m.


Quoting:
Getting back to spelling, what is this American obsession with ending certain words in "-ite?" You know, like "lite," "tonite," "brite," etc.? Even "rite" is used as in the word "right" instead of "rite" as in "rite of passage." Why is this? It's even caught on to Canadian culture, and I've noticed people from other countries with a very limited knowledge of the English language adopting this fallacy as if it's supposed to be correct because it's part of American language!! Do people have something against ending words in "-ight?" Is it one too many letters to write or type? Because it doesn't look good at all!!!

Absolutely Vile
End Quote



The first ones listed are not "actual" words, they are mostly used for promotional purposes.  As far as "rite", it's not an alternate spelling of "right", that's the correct way to spell it.  It means a ritual or ceremonial act.  The basis of it is in Christianity.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/01/04 at 10:09 a.m.


Quoting:


The first ones listed are not "actual" words, they are mostly used for promotional purposes.  As far as "rite", it's not an alternate spelling of "right", that's the correct way to spell it.  It means a ritual or ceremonial act.  The basis of it is in Christianity.
End Quote


So do they practice Christian or Pagan rites at Rite-Aide pharmacies?
Commercial interests have always used catchy spelling.  There was a doughnut shop called The Koffee Kup.  Oh, the correct spelling is doughnut, but it's gradually being replaced with "donut," as in Dunkin' Donuts.  The AP style guide still shuns "donut," but even they'll have to relent.
Then there's the moving company U-Haul, which used to be
U-Haul-It.  There's a self service car wash somewhere around here called U-WASH-IT.  Who's the genius who came up wit that one? :P

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 04/01/04 at 10:13 a.m.


Quoting:


The first ones listed are not "actual" words, they are mostly used for promotional purposes.End Quote



I never said they were actual words. They are blatant and very popular misspellings of words, and no, they're not just used for promotional purposes. There are people who spell them that way!! And anyway, even used for promotional purposes it's unacceptable because, as is already happening, people will deem the "-ite" spelling as correct, when it's not and it just looks ugly.

Quoting:As far as "rite", it's not an alternate spelling of "right", that's the correct way to spell it.  It means a ritual or ceremonial act.  The basis of it is in Christianity.End Quote



I never said that either. Read my post. I've seen people misspell "right" as "rite" thus using "rite" out of context when it's supposed to mean something else!

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: 80s_cheerleader on 04/01/04 at 12:38 a.m.


Quoting:


I never said they were actual words. They are blatant and very popular misspellings of words, and no, they're not just used for promotional purposes. There are people who spell them that way!! And anyway, even used for promotional purposes it's unacceptable because, as is already happening, people will deem the "-ite" spelling as correct, when it's not and it just looks ugly.


I never said that either. Read my post. I've seen people misspell "right" as "rite" thus using "rite" out of context when it's supposed to mean something else!

Absolutely Vile
End Quote



Sorry, I did misunderstand your post.  I thought you were saying that it should be "right of passage" but now that I reread it, I see what you meant.

As far as the "-ite" words being spelled that way, phonetically, that's how they should be spelled.  It's one of the reasons the English language is the hardest for non-English speaking people to learn.  It goes hand in hand with to, too & two; live (as in "I live in a house") and live (as in "livewire") and I could go on and on.  As a former English major in college, it drives me batty when people can't spell or punctuate properly, so I know what you're getting at.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 04/01/04 at 05:53 p.m.

Here's an interesting thing from ex-Depeche Mode's Alan Wilder from his sadly abandoned Q&A (whereby people could email him on his website and ask him questions which he would personally answer) on his website www.recoil.co.uk which addresses the previous post quite well, I think. :) ...

From: Greg Madison
E-mail: gakmadison@erols.com

Did you know that it was we Americans who standardized the written English language? If it weren't for us, ye spottie auld Britz wuld still b all ovre thee plase wen ye tryed too do anye reeding ore ryting. Besides, it's not our fault you guys leave in all those superflous 'U's and you use 'S' where you should use 'Zed'. No harm meant, I'm just coming to the 'defence' of American English speakers (all except Jam, I've got no idea what he's saying half the time) :-)

The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of negotiations, Her Majesty Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will reseive this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replased with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replased by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always been a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgraful, and they would go.

By the forth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by "v". During ze fifz year ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining"ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trobls or difikultis and evrivum vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru!

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: gamblefish on 04/01/04 at 06:12 p.m.


Quoting:

So do they practice Christian or Pagan rites at Rite-Aide pharmacies?
End Quote



Judging from their selection of Easter paraphernalia, I'd say pagan...  :P

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/02/04 at 07:02 p.m.


Quoting:


Judging from their selection of Easter paraphernalia, I'd say pagan...  :P
End Quote


Bunny rabbits and chicken eggs, Pagan symbols of spring and fertility.  My Puritan ancestors wouldn't have stood for it for a second.  On the other hand, I don't know how they would have felt about a big chocolate Jesus, so....

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: gamblefish on 04/02/04 at 07:12 p.m.


Quoting:

Bunny rabbits and chicken eggs, Pagan symbols of spring and fertility.  My Puritan ancestors wouldn't have stood for it for a second.  On the other hand, I don't know how they would have felt about a big chocolate Jesus, so....
End Quote



Oh, man...I saw lollipops on the back of a catalog the other day and they were cross shaped!! The image in my head is pure torture...sticky faced kids sucking on crosses... :-X :-X :-X

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: goodsin on 04/07/04 at 11:01 a.m.

I think TV & modern technology have a lot to answer for. Due to the globalisation of TV images (mainly US via satellite) , advertising misspelling has become ingrained into the culture of non-UK English speaking cultures. Many young persons' major form of written communication is via telephone text message, where people can use whatever language they like, which can erode their willingness to use correct English, in my experience. I think the standard of literacy in the UK is dropping at a fearsome rate; more people CAN read & write, it's just seems those who can have a lesser vocabulary on the whole, and need electronic aid to do anything other than basic maths.  ;D

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Wicked on 04/07/04 at 11:33 a.m.

Television has mostly everything to answer for, but of course it can't answer.  If you don't believe kids today are illiterate, you must admit that they are aliterate, meaning they can read but they don't.

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: AL-B on 04/07/04 at 06:17 p.m.

I'm not illiterate, I know who my father is!!!

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/07/04 at 07:31 p.m.


Quoting:
I'm not illiterate, I know who my father is!!!
End Quote


You can know who your father is and still be, er, illiterate.  
I used to work as a telephone transcriptionist for deaf people. I once had to correct a clerk in a financial aid office.  She said my client was "illegible" for financial aid.  So much for English as a second language classes!

Subject: Re: Are the youth of America today illiterate??

Written By: Rice Cube on 04/07/04 at 07:57 p.m.

I think Al was making a joke.