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Subject: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/29/06 at 10:45 pm

Description of '90s hipsters:

From A Field Guide to the Urban Hipster by Josh Aiello, describing what I think of as an "alternaboy." It was published in 2003-

"Ten years past its prime, the clock is ticking fast on this species. Immediate observation is recommended. Many original specimens have already evolved into other, more definitive types (see indie rockers (what I think of as '00s hipsters), mods, ravers, DJs, etc.) AlternaBoys provide a cultural link to our collective Hipster heritage, having stubbornly resisted temptation to abandon the ideals or fashions of the general Grunge aesthetic of the early 1990s. Still influenced by period cultural harbingers , the species has changed very little over the past decade. Wallet chains may in fact contain fewer links than those ten years prior, but conceptually they remain quite similar. Likewise, these Hipsters have yet to fully abandon the now culturally mainstream plastic eyeglass frames."

At the end of the chapter it mentions that the transition of this species towards what it is in the '00s have adopted to a more "modern", '00sy hipster thing, with tight jeans and mesh-backed caps , functionless sweatbands, etc., which sort of confirms my opinion that today's version of hipsterism really grew out of lower Manhattan and Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and you couldn't really find this sort of hipster outside of the sheltering Manhattan environment, especially on the West Coast, until late 2003.

'90s hipster obsessions: '70s retro, alternative animation and independent film-making, lo-fi rock (Pavement, Beck, Guided by Voices), microbrews, tattooing and piercings, retro decor (jukeboxes, pinball machines, etc.), skateboards and bicycling, kitsch, vintage guitars.
Hipster movies/TV: Anything by David Lynch or Quentin Tarantino, Reality Bites, anything with Janeane Garofalo, Slackers.

Overall, the culture managed to survive into 2003 probably outside of NYC, where the new hipster started around 2001 in numbers, and the culture was more slacker-ish and "grungey", less materialistic and into style, etc.

I'll post my '00s analysis next...

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/29/06 at 11:10 pm

'00s Hipsters:

I'm almost convinced that pretty much all the styles and mores of the '00s hipster began in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and the Lower East Side/East Village of Manhattan, but moreso the former, and have now spread to a degree across the country. However, the purest and least-'90s form is definitely native to NYC, and to a degree Philadelphia (some NYC transplants are there now), and Washington D.C, where the hardcore influence originated. Outside of there, hipsters still have some distinctly neo-'90s trappings, like being a bit less emo. Anyway, it's a Northeastern thing by origin. The '90s hipster is native to the West Coast (all over, but particularly the Silicon Valley and up), and some Midwestern cities and college towns, like Minneapolis, Austin, Chicago, Cambridge, MA, and Athens, GA. The impetus for it starting was probably the growth of Williamsburg, Brooklyn as a hipster enclave and the beginnings of the '80s/new wave and post-punk retro that defines the movement.

Obsessions of '00s hipsters: iPods and technology in general, Japanese and Thai food, retro-'80s/new wave and post punk, homemade clothing and clothing from obscure boutiques, The Virgin Suicides, Pi, Requiem for a Dream, Ghost World, alternative comic books, convertibles, beach cruisers, sweaters and argyles, anything with the Gyllenhaals, Six Feet Under, Vespas, etc.



Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/29/06 at 11:40 pm


'00s Hipsters:

I'm almost convinced that pretty much all the styles and mores of the '00s hipster began in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and the Lower East Side/East Village of Manhattan, but moreso the former, and have now spread to a degree across the country. However, the purest and least-'90s form is definitely native to NYC, and to a degree Philadelphia (some NYC transplants are there now), and Washington D.C, where the hardcore influence originated. Outside of there, hipsters still have some distinctly neo-'90s trappings, like being a bit less emo. Anyway, it's a Northeastern thing by origin. The '90s hipster is native to the West Coast (all over, but particularly the Silicon Valley and up), and some Midwestern cities and college towns, like Minneapolis, Austin, Chicago, Cambridge, MA, and Athens, GA. The impetus for it starting was probably the growth of Williamsburg, Brooklyn as a hipster enclave and the beginnings of the '80s/new wave and post-punk retro that defines the movement.

Obsessions of '00s hipsters: iPods and technology in general, Japanese and Thai food, retro-'80s/new wave and post punk, homemade clothing and clothing from obscure boutiques, The Virgin Suicides, Pi, Requiem for a Dream, Ghost World, alternative comic books, convertibles, beach cruisers, sweaters and argyles, anything with the Gyllenhaals, Six Feet Under, Vespas, etc.






THAI FOOD!  >:(

You know what the "hipster" really is?  It's what happens when the Nerd becomes cool.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: bbigd04 on 04/29/06 at 11:42 pm

Hipster and yuppie are kinda of the same thing right?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/29/06 at 11:45 pm


Hipster and yuppie are kinda of the same thing right?


Nah, yuppies are 30 year old unmarrieds who work for investment banks and spend lots of dough.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/29/06 at 11:46 pm


Hipster and yuppie are kinda of the same thing right?


Quentin Tarantino, the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, and people that follow indie "scenes", esp. indie rock, and are smart and cynical are hipsters.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/29/06 at 11:46 pm

Anybody have any thoughts on the difference between '90s and '00s hipsters, and the origins of them?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: bbigd04 on 04/29/06 at 11:47 pm


Nah, yuppies are 30 year old unmarrieds who work for investment banks and spend lots of dough.


lol.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: bbigd04 on 04/29/06 at 11:48 pm


Quentin Tarantino, the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, and people that follow indie "scenes", esp. indie rock, and are smart and cynical are hipsters.


I guess I kinda get what a hipster is now. I never really used the term much before.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/29/06 at 11:48 pm


Anybody have any thoughts on the difference between '90s and '00s hipsters, and the origins of them?


They're similar breeds, but the '90s hipster is more laid back and grungy whereas the '00s hipster is deep and cynical.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/29/06 at 11:53 pm


They're similar breeds, but the '90s hipster is more laid back and grungy whereas the '00s hipster is deep and cynical.


And materialistic, and more "jaded" in some ways. Like the '00s hipster is more genuinely obsessed with style and grooming. Also, I think I'm right in saying the '00s hipster is a breed endemic to the gentrified neighborhoods of Philadelphia, Washington D.C., and NYC, and some west coast areas like Portland, whereas the '90s hipster was endemic to college towns and parts of West Coast and Midwestern cities.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/30/06 at 12:00 am


And materialistic, and more "jaded" in some ways. Like the '00s hipster is more genuinely obsessed with style and grooming. Also, I think I'm right in saying the '00s hipster is a breed endemic to the gentrified neighborhoods of Philadelphia, Washington D.C., and NYC, and some west coast areas like Portland, whereas the '90s hipster was endemic to college towns and parts of West Coast and Midwestern cities.


Yes, Portland is very, very hipster.  The '90s hipster is more a "college town" sort of thing.  For instance I don't think Eugene is as hipster now as it was in the 1990s.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/30/06 at 12:06 am


Yes, Portland is very, very hipster.  The '90s hipster is more a "college town" sort of thing.  For instance I don't think Eugene is as hipster now as it was in the 1990s.


Yeah, '90s hipsters ideal environments were slacker areas with alot of relaxed college-age kids, like Cambridge MA, Eugene OR, Berkeley CA, various areas of California, Athens GA, Austin TX...as well as certain cities like Seattle, San Francisco, and neighborhoods of LA, Minneapolis, Houston, and Chicago that were full of similarly misdirected twentysomethings working at coffee shops. '00s hipster environments are driven, expensive, gentrified inner-city neighborhoods like Williamsburg, Brooklyn; Northern Liberties in Philadelphia; Silver Lake in Los Angeles; and the whole city of Portland that aren't really related to a college, people just flocked there.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/30/06 at 12:29 am

I'm of the theory that there are a few ground zeroes for '90s hipster culture. They definitely include Seattle, hipster Los Angeles neighborhoods like Park La Brea and Hollywood, some smaller west coast cities, Minneapolis, and the multitude of college towns I mentioned (even Minneapolis counts as a college town, really.) There are two ground zeroes for '00s hipster culture: Williamsburg, Brooklyn (in many ways, the biggest by far), and Portland, Oregon. It spread from there, and eventually overtook Silver Lake, the big L.A. enclave.

Also, you could say there's something very driven about the '00s hipsters, like they're always stressing over some big new artsy project and anxious over nothing. '90s hipsters were chill, nerdy, and "slackerish."

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/30/06 at 12:33 am


I'm of the theory that there are a few ground zeroes for '90s hipster culture. They definitely include Seattle, hipster Los Angeles neighborhoods like Park La Brea and Hollywood, some smaller west coast cities, Minneapolis, and the multitude of college towns I mentioned (even Minneapolis counts as a college town, really.) There are two ground zeroes for '00s hipster culture: Williamsburg, Brooklyn (in many ways, the biggest by far), and Portland, Oregon. It spread from there, and eventually overtook Silver Lake, the big L.A. enclave.

Also, you could say there's something very driven about the '00s hipsters, like they're always stressing over some big new artsy project and anxious over nothing. '90s hipsters were chill, nerdy, and "slackerish."


Hipster is almost like an exclusionary religion.  Everybody who doesn't listen to "alternative" music is simply a "worthless tard", and you're the chosen people. The '90s hipster I don't think was quite so arrogant.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 04/30/06 at 1:28 am


Quentin Tarantino, the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, and people that follow indie "scenes", esp. indie rock, and are smart and cynical are hipsters.


The Comic Book Guy? No, I think he's just a geek...period.

Hipsters are also characterised by a 'superficiality' and phoniness...I don't know, they always seem pretentious, as if they're judging and analysing you, seeking out your political persuasions.etc. Lol. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. Otherwise I don't know much about them as such...the latte drinking snobs.  :)

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/30/06 at 2:47 am


Hipster is almost like an exclusionary religion.  Everybody who doesn't listen to "alternative" music is simply a "worthless tard", and you're the chosen people. The '90s hipster I don't think was quite so arrogant.


Yeah, they really don't appreciate mainstream music at all, I have to say...I'm sorry, but I think Madonna or Donna Summer is worth more than Neutral Milk Hotel or some "bedsheesh music" anyday.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/30/06 at 3:02 am

^^^What do people think of my analysis of the regionalism of hipsters today?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 04/30/06 at 3:33 am


Yeah, they really don't appreciate mainstream music at all, I have to say...I'm sorry, but I think Madonna or Donna Summer is worth more than Neutral Milk Hotel or some "bedsheesh music" anyday.


This actually varies...some hipsters only appreciate mainstream music if it has some 'cred' - usually that means if they're played on alternative radio stations. 'Hard-core' hipsters, like so-called 'Indie-people', shun all vestiges of mainstreamerism.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 04/30/06 at 11:15 am

Bump...what do you think of the regionalism aspect aforementioned, anybody?

Anyway, yeah...I agree with what Trimac said about the variation between hipsters. But most of them don't strike me as appreciating non-esoteric music, anyway.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 04/30/06 at 8:49 pm


Bump...what do you think of the regionalism aspect aforementioned, anybody?

Anyway, yeah...I agree with what Trimac said about the variation between hipsters. But most of them don't strike me as appreciating non-esoteric music, anyway.


Sorry not living in the U.S. I can't answer. And my conception of a 'hipster' may differ slightly from yours, as in many ways we're in two different worlds.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: jersey_bwoy2078 on 05/03/06 at 9:07 am

I prefered to buy my clothes from the cheap rack at Old Navy, and the thrift stores.  I listened to non-stop electronic music (still do).  I eat meat 'n' taters, and yes....some exotic foods.  I have always been that way, even living in New Jersey, Toronto, and Sacramento, I have NEVER wanted to be a "hipster", "poser", or a "conformer".  I was at the mid-late 1990s "hipster" era and lemme tell ya...it wasn't worth spending $2-3,000 thousand dollars, or even $2-300 to look cool or to fit in with th rest.  Oh well.....there's always http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/spam1.gif.  ;D

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/03/06 at 9:42 am


I prefered to buy my clothes from the cheap rack at Old Navy, and the thrift stores.  I listened to non-stop electronic music (still do).  I eat meat 'n' taters, and yes....some exotic foods.  I have always been that way, even living in New Jersey, Toronto, and Sacramento, I have NEVER wanted to be a "hipster", "poser", or a "conformer".  I was at the mid-late 1990s "hipster" era and lemme tell ya...it wasn't worth spending $2-3,000 thousand dollars, or even $2-300 to look cool or to fit in with th rest.  Oh well.....there's always http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/spam1.gif.  ;D


Yeah, go with the Morrisey 'anti-fashion' look. I think that's coming back into fashion. I am a great practitioner of that style...it's easy on the wallet as well.  ;D

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/03/06 at 12:37 pm

I am proudly anti-fashion.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 05/03/06 at 12:43 pm


I am proudly anti-fashion.



Same here. I just dont see the need in spending huge amounts of money on expensive clothes to fit in.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/03/06 at 12:45 pm


I am proudly anti-fashion.


But how far would you go? For instance, would you wear something that was very un-fashionable if you felt comfortable wearing it? Say, fluoro-coloured trackies or something?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/03/06 at 2:25 pm


But how far would you go? For instance, would you wear something that was very un-fashionable if you felt comfortable wearing it? Say, fluoro-coloured trackies or something?


Probably. I mostly wear things that give off no fashion signal.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/03/06 at 2:33 pm

Getting back to topic...I think the '90s hipsters were over in influence by the last half of '03, when the super-stylish, materialistic, non-slacker '00s hipster spread out of NYC and Portland and across the country. I think '90s hipsters still had a slacker reputation, '00s hipsters always have some sort of outsized goal or ridiculous project, and inflated senses of self-worth. That, and they oftentimes work in absurd sorts of temp work or spend all their time "working" (i.e. dreaming with no product), as opposed to the food co-ops and bookshops that '90s hipsters were supposed to work in. The '90s hipster isn't all that different from the American sort of 1985-1991 hipster, with a similar affection for nostalgia appropriation, grungy styles of dress, "college rock" and noise rock, etc. I've oftentimes heard that Gen Xers changed from new wave to alternative (like think to the Nate in Six Feet Under types) when away at college...like college campuses in the late '80s were inundated with a neo-political, proto-'90s hipster sort of culture.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: 5.19.86 on 05/03/06 at 2:52 pm

What's with the City crap?  Who cares what city someone is from, there were '90s and '00s Hipsters everywhere, they don't just migrate to one certain state or city

Stuff like that just bugs me, how arrogant some people can be to think that their state or city was where all the Hip stuff happened in a certain era

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/03/06 at 3:00 pm


What's with the City crap?  Who cares what city someone is from, there were '90s and '00s Hipsters everywhere, they don't just migrate to one certain state or city

Stuff like that just bugs me, how arrogant some people can be to think that their state or city was where all the Hip stuff happened in a certain era


I wasn't saying that. I was saying where the culture originated. Get it right. The '90s version of the '80s hipster is sort of a West Coast/college town thing, originating from a college town/L.A./midsized Midwestern city culture. The '00s hipster culture is from NYC and Portland, mostly.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/04/06 at 2:18 pm

bump

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/05/06 at 8:44 am

What's so significant about Portland that makes it one of the new centres of hipsterism? Is it a bit like the Seattle of the 80s, early 90s, which was the College-rock capital...I really don't know anything about Portland, except it's in Oregon, supposedly the most 'godless' part of the country (according to a documentary). But that's another thing altogether...

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/05/06 at 12:28 pm


What's so significant about Portland that makes it one of the new centres of hipsterism? Is it a bit like the Seattle of the 80s, early 90s, which was the College-rock capital...I really don't know anything about Portland, except it's in Oregon, supposedly the most 'godless' part of the country (according to a documentary). But that's another thing altogether...




I've always believed Portland to be more genuinely hipster than Seattle or NYC, because it has a lack of big corporate jobs, it's comparatively cheap as opposed to those cities, it's safe, and pretty quirky on a city-wide scale. The lack of big corporate jobs keeps the prices comparatively low for artists and the like. Besides the big hipster community, it also has alot of "pagans", hippies, various witches and wizards, etc. Seattle isn't that much of a hipster city anymore...Portland has had a similar influx of young, hip singles. In the '60s and '70s the cities that attracted alot of young hip singles were San Francisco (primarily), NYC, and Boston, in the '80s and '90s Seattle (along with Portland and certain neighborhoods of Chicago, Minneapolis, etc., the Silicon Valley, and "hip" areas of L.A.), and in the '00s Portland and NE Brooklyn in NYC. But also in the '00s fringe-y L.A. neighborhoods and Philly have attracted alot of directionless singles.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/05/06 at 12:31 pm

I see...so do you see 'Hipsters' as the natural successors of 'Yuppies'? Are areas with high populations of 'Hipsters' also heavily gentrified?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/05/06 at 12:40 pm


I see...so do you see 'Hipsters' as the natural successors of 'Yuppies'? Are areas with high populations of 'Hipsters' also heavily gentrified?


In a modern sense, they came about at the same time as yuppies (in the early '80s), but they're descended from the Beatniks and before that the "Lost Generation" types of the '20s and '30s, so not necessarily. Hipsters force gentrification and overdevelopment because their presence in an area attracts yuppies, who then force them out to continue this cycle until a real estate crash, when the hipsters oftentimes come back, along with less desirable elements, and force out yuppies. Though hipsters these days are in and of themselves somewhat gentrifiers, by forcing out the area's original population.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/06/06 at 4:29 am

I'm talking about hipsters in there late teens/early 20s, the predominant age group hipsters fall into. Yuppies are mainly in the late twenties to early forties, so do you think many of today's hipsters will become yuppies in their 30s?

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/06/06 at 4:49 am


I'm talking about hipsters in there late teens/early 20s, the predominant age group hipsters fall into. Yuppies are mainly in the late twenties to early forties, so do you think many of today's hipsters will become yuppies in their 30s?


I think alot of them will get better-paying jobs and evolve into the equivalents of their parents, the "bobos", like vaguely bohemian yuppies, distinguished by liberal leanings and eating more ethnic food, or being more "cultural" than other yuppies. Alot of ex-hippies who are the parents of Gen Y hipsters (and Gen Yers in general) became this.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: Trimac20 on 05/06/06 at 6:13 am

More and more people are entering University and getting degrees/tertiary qualifications than ever before, which will create a whole generation of income-rich, asset-poor (given the price of real estate), highly mobile professionals. Yet, on the whole, those with artistic leanings tend not to be as interested in power jobs and driving Ferarris to work: that's what it would seem on the surface, but I suspect many 'hipsters' do not share the sentiments of the Beatnik/'Boho'/literary culture they idolize. I don't think they'll be much room for sandal-wearing 'fringe poets' in the world of the 21st century, as the rich become richer and the poor poorer.

Subject: Re: '90s Hipsters vs. '00s Hipsters

Written By: velvetoneo on 05/06/06 at 8:32 am


More and more people are entering University and getting degrees/tertiary qualifications than ever before, which will create a whole generation of income-rich, asset-poor (given the price of real estate), highly mobile professionals. Yet, on the whole, those with artistic leanings tend not to be as interested in power jobs and driving Ferarris to work: that's what it would seem on the surface, but I suspect many 'hipsters' do not share the sentiments of the Beatnik/'Boho'/literary culture they idolize. I don't think they'll be much room for sandal-wearing 'fringe poets' in the world of the 21st century, as the rich become richer and the poor poorer.


That is, if the 21st century continues the way it is going this decade. Alot of things change like this constantly. The rich-richer, poor-poorer thing has been going on in the US since Reagan and in the UK since Thatcher. The poor and middle-class are getting angrier and angrier at how hard it is for them to live, and I suspect a populist change is coming, in the US at least, in the '10s. Most hipsters share very little with the Beatnik/Boho/literary culture they idolize. For example, most of them, however much they brag, would never really live in abject poverty that isn't stylish.

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