I'm talking in terms of popular culture, not world politics.ec

* People who hold this view tend to be younger - usually born before 1988 ( ;) I know I'm making daring presumptions here), hence the age they would have become aware of everything would have coincided with the time period 2001-2002.

* They hold the false presumption that Sept. 11 had a major effect on basically everything. Nothing really changed, in terms of music.etc before and after Sept 11 (though 2001 as a whole WAS quite a changeful year).

* Rap and hip-hop did really seem to take off in 2001 - although 2000/01 was probably more rap dominated, while 2002-03 more R'n'B, general Hip Hop, Dance R'n'B and Glam Rap. This one is understandeable: 2001 saw the change from the short-lived teen pop/boy band era to the 'mid-00s.' Yet I think 2000's music was no more a part of the 90s than the 00s: it was like a unique time period, which culturally belonged more to the 00s.

And finally, alot of 00s artists sort of came to the forefront around 2001 - e.g. Eminem, Destiny's Child, the Strokes...

I've always leant more to 1999, but I can see some of the reasons why some would favour 2001 as the year. But speaking from experience, I'll say mid to lay 1999 as a bigger revolution than 2001. Technologically, it was 100% 1999, same with most fashion, art and other aspects of culture.

2000 is the start of the '00s, I'm sick of debating this, lol.

2000 is the start of the '00s, I'm sick of debating this, lol.


Lol, but pop-culturally 1999 marked a more definite change than 2000.  ;)

I'm talking in terms of popular culture, not world politics.ec

* People who hold this view tend to be younger - usually born before 1988 ( ;) I know I'm making daring presumptions here), hence the age they would have become aware of everything would have coincided with the time period 2001-2002.

* They hold the false presumption that Sept. 11 had a major effect on basically everything. Nothing really changed, in terms of music.etc before and after Sept 11 (though 2001 as a whole WAS quite a changeful year).

* Rap and hip-hop did really seem to take off in 2001 - although 2000/01 was probably more rap dominated, while 2002-03 more R'n'B, general Hip Hop, Dance R'n'B and Glam Rap. This one is understandeable: 2001 saw the change from the short-lived teen pop/boy band era to the 'mid-00s.' Yet I think 2000's music was no more a part of the 90s than the 00s: it was like a unique time period, which culturally belonged more to the 00s.

And finally, alot of 00s artists sort of came to the forefront around 2001 - e.g. Eminem, Destiny's Child, the Strokes...

I've always leant more to 1999, but I can see some of the reasons why some would favour 2001 as the year. But speaking from experience, I'll say mid to lay 1999 as a bigger revolution than 2001. Technologically, it was 100% 1999, same with most fashion, art and other aspects of culture.


And Destiny's child was big way before 2001, so was Eminem, not that it really matters.

Lol, but pop-culturally 1999 marked a more definite change than 2000.  ;)


I don't care anymore.

And Destiny's child was big way before 2001, so was Eminem, not that it really matters.


Yeah, Eminem really exploded onto the scene with 'Slim Shady', but he didn't really become huge until 2001. Destiny's Child was big in the late 90s, but sort of changed their image to appeal more to the mainstream about 2001 before they broke up for the first time.

Yeah, Eminem really exploded onto the scene with 'Slim Shady', but he didn't really become huge until 2001. Destiny's Child was big in the late 90s, but sort of changed their image to appeal more to the mainstream about 2001 before they broke up for the first time.


My Name Is was pretty big too in 1999.

Reality TV is something I sort of forgot. It is definitely a big definer of the 00s, dominating TV in 01 with Survivor/Big Brother.etc. Still, it's only a small part of the whole cultural bloc.

I think you need to check your title.

"Why (I think) People Say 2001 Marked the Start of the 90s"

I'm talking in terms of popular culture, not world politics.ec

* People who hold this view tend to be younger - usually born before 1988 ( ;) I know I'm making daring presumptions here), hence the age they would have become aware of everything would have coincided with the time period 2001-2002.

* They hold the false presumption that Sept. 11 had a major effect on basically everything. Nothing really changed, in terms of music.etc before and after Sept 11 (though 2001 as a whole WAS quite a changeful year).

* Rap and hip-hop did really seem to take off in 2001 - although 2000/01 was probably more rap dominated, while 2002-03 more R'n'B, general Hip Hop, Dance R'n'B and Glam Rap. This one is understandeable: 2001 saw the change from the short-lived teen pop/boy band era to the 'mid-00s.' Yet I think 2000's music was no more a part of the 90s than the 00s: it was like a unique time period, which culturally belonged more to the 00s.

And finally, alot of 00s artists sort of came to the forefront around 2001 - e.g. Eminem, Destiny's Child, the Strokes...

I've always leant more to 1999, but I can see some of the reasons why some would favour 2001 as the year. But speaking from experience, I'll say mid to lay 1999 as a bigger revolution than 2001. Technologically, it was 100% 1999, same with most fashion, art and other aspects of culture.


Hmm...lots of people born before 1988 say that 2001 was the beginning of the '00s, too. Ask Marty McFly.

As for the 9/11 thing: you're Australian, honey. I live in the NE US...that changed everything here, and even for most Americans, it was a huge, huge major change in the way things "were."

I'm talking in terms of popular culture, not world politics.ec

* People who hold this view tend to be younger - usually born before 1988 ( ;) I know I'm making daring presumptions here), hence the age they would have become aware of everything would have coincided with the time period 2001-2002.

* They hold the false presumption that Sept. 11 had a major effect on basically everything. Nothing really changed, in terms of music.etc before and after Sept 11 (though 2001 as a whole WAS quite a changeful year).

* Rap and hip-hop did really seem to take off in 2001 - although 2000/01 was probably more rap dominated, while 2002-03 more R'n'B, general Hip Hop, Dance R'n'B and Glam Rap. This one is understandeable: 2001 saw the change from the short-lived teen pop/boy band era to the 'mid-00s.' Yet I think 2000's music was no more a part of the 90s than the 00s: it was like a unique time period, which culturally belonged more to the 00s.

And finally, alot of 00s artists sort of came to the forefront around 2001 - e.g. Eminem, Destiny's Child, the Strokes...

I've always leant more to 1999, but I can see some of the reasons why some would favour 2001 as the year. But speaking from experience, I'll say mid to lay 1999 as a bigger revolution than 2001. Technologically, it was 100% 1999, same with most fashion, art and other aspects of culture.


I think you meant to say "usually born after 1988"

People born around 1986 or before hold the view that the '00s began in either 1999 or at the start of 2000, while younger people seem to think it started in 2001.

Who's opinion has more credibility though? Someone born in 1989 or 1990 (Didn't really experience the '90s that much and barely remember most of it) or someone born in 1985 or before (Who remembers the majority of the '90s and the pop-culture)??

The answer is simple.

I think you meant to say "usually born after 1988"

People born around 1986 or before hold the view that the '00s began in either 1999 or at the start of 2000, while younger people seem to think it started in 2001.

Who's opinion has more credibility though? Someone born in 1989 or 1990 (Didn't really experience the '90s that much and barely remember most of it) or someone born in 1985 or before (Who remembers the majority of the '90s and the pop-culture)??

The answer is simple.


Who cares, The '00s started on Jan. 1, 2000.

Who cares, The '00s started on Jan. 1, 2000.


Yeah, we should just agree to disagree and compromise with that.

I was 9 in 1999. Sure, I wasn't a teen, but it wasn't before my time in any sense whatsoever.  I didn't "do" much more then than I do now.  There's almost no haziness to my memories of 1999.

1999 was '90s. Very modern, even compared to the rest of the ultramodern '90s decade (IMO the '90s were the last truly "modern" decade). But it was '90s. People still dressed vaguely '90s, and even though the feel was sort of post-'90s it didn't feel '00s because the atmosphere was still optimistic.

2000 didn't feel like the '90s, because the economy started to turn and there was no more Y2K fever, but I'd say it was close enough. Clinton was still our president, even if he was impeached (the way the impeachment went was very '90s, although if it didn't happen Bush probably wouldn't have become President).  What's more '90s than a scandal, especially a sex scandal? Tons of '90s TV shows lasted to or past 2000, although because Reality started with Survivor I'd say the '00s began in late 2000 in the case of television.  I think 2000 and pre-9/11 2001 were the decline of the late '90s era, rather than the beginning of the '00s, because the '00s really is defined by what's happened after 9/11.  That's not to say there wasn't a pseudo-'00s culture in 1999 and 2000, there was, but it was still more '90s than anything.

The "Long '00s" theory is valid, but I disagree with it.  I know 1999 had tons of '00s elements, but in 1999 they seemed very Nineties.  Eminem, South Park, and Britney are a logical extension of Vanilla Ice, Ace of Base and Beavis and Butt-head.

I was 9 in 1999. Sure, I wasn't a teen, but it wasn't before my time in any sense whatsoever.  I didn't "do" much more then than I do now.  There's almost no haziness to my memories of 1999.

1999 was '90s. Very modern, even compared to the rest of the ultramodern '90s decade (IMO the '90s were the last truly "modern" decade). But it was '90s. People still dressed vaguely '90s, and even though the feel was sort of post-'90s it didn't feel '00s because the atmosphere was still optimistic.

2000 didn't feel like the '90s, because the economy started to turn and there was no more Y2K fever, but I'd say it was close enough. Clinton was still our president, even if he was impeached (the way the impeachment went was very '90s, although if it didn't happen Bush probably wouldn't have become President).  What's more '90s than a scandal, especially a sex scandal? Tons of '90s TV shows lasted to or past 2000, although because Reality started with Survivor I'd say the '00s began in late 2000 in the case of television.  I think 2000 and pre-9/11 2001 were the decline of the late '90s era, rather than the beginning of the '00s, because the '00s really is defined by what's happened after 9/11.  That's not to say there wasn't a pseudo-'00s culture in 1999 and 2000, there was, but it was still more '90s than anything.

The "Long '00s" theory is valid, but I disagree with it.  I know 1999 had tons of '00s elements, but in 1999 they seemed very Nineties.  Eminem, South Park, and Britney are a logical extension of Vanilla Ice, Ace of Base and Beavis and Butt-head.


Yeah, I agree with that. 2000 and pre-9/11 2001, really when I was in 5th grade (Y2K is when I was a 4th grader.) Actually, I think the '90s were more a "postmodern" decade, whereas the '00s are a revival of the modernism of the '80s.  I agree with you that South Park is very much so a '90s thing, though it fits into the '00s well. The vulgar humor fits in well with Beavis and Butthead, and Eminem's style was a natural successor to gangsta rap, being one of the first really successful post-gangsta rappers.

Also, there was more a '90s attitude and way of thinking in 1999, overall. Like the whole super-preppie, materialistic teen culture wasn't in place yet, if you watch teen movies from then, like She Drives Me Crazy. Whereas by the time of Mean Girls in 2004, that culture was very firmly in place. I also think it was more of a long '00s in Europe and Asia than in the U.S. For example, when I was in the UK in 2002, it was already pretty firmly '00s by 2002, whereas in the U.S. it was just starting culturally to become the '00s.  Part of it was that the late '90s began in 1996 or even 1995 in Europe, and there was never the grunge or gangsta rap movements that defined the first 2/3 of the '90s in Europe.

Yeah September 11th had nothing to do with pop culture, music would be exactly where it is now regardless of 9/11. 9/11 changed the political enviroment, yes, but I don't really think 9/11 itself has anything to do with the ending of the '90s and beginning of the '00s. The '00s really began as everybody knows on January 1st, 2000, all these other dates we throw around are meaningless. The '90s feel is all subjective, the '90s were different for all of us. There is no single '90s feel like some people here are trying to create, the '90s are simply the decade of 1990-1999, nothing less and nothing more. To me and to 99 % of normal people 1999 is just as much part of the 1990s as 1995.

Yeah September 11th had nothing to do with pop culture, music would be exactly where it is now regardless of 9/11. 9/11 changed the political enviroment, yes, but I don't really think 9/11 itself has anything to do with the ending of the '90s and beginning of the '00s. The '00s really began as everybody know on January 1st, 2000, all these other dates we throw around are meaningless. The '90s feel is all subjective, the '90s were different for all of us. There is no single '90s feel like some people here are trying to create, the '90s are simply the decade of 1990-1999, nothing less and nothing more. To me and to 99 % of normal people 1999 is just as much part of the 1990s as 1995.


Si, eres correcto.

Though I think all the "teen alienation" created by the rise of a neo-Reaganist '00s culture helped to make emo popular, and people turned to glam rap culture and its worship of materialism to make themselves more secure. Emo would still be around, but probably wouldn't have been quite as popular without 9/11.

Si, eres correcto.

Though I think all the "teen alienation" created by the rise of a neo-Reaganist '00s culture helped to make emo popular, and people turned to glam rap culture and its worship of materialism to make themselves more secure. Emo would still be around, but probably wouldn't have been quite as popular without 9/11.


Emo rose out of late '90s punk like Blink 182, Sum 41, etc, from those came Good Charlotte, Simple Plan then came true emo like Panic At The Disco, Fall Out Boy, etc. All this stuff is related in my opinion, it just slowly got crappier and crappier.

Emo rose out of late '90s punk like Blink 182, Sum 41, etc, from those came Good Charlotte, Simple Plan then came true emo like Panic At The Disco, Fall Out Boy, etc. All this stuff is related in my opinion, it just slowly got crappier and crappier.


Yeah...I actually always sort of thought the late '90s pop-punk stuff was crappy, though I hate to admit it.

Yeah...I actually always sort of thought the late '90s pop-punk stuff was crappy, though I hate to admit it.


I was never a big fan of it but it was ok compared to this emo garbage.

Yeah...I actually always sort of thought the late '90s pop-punk stuff was crappy, though I hate to admit it.


Late 90s pop punk was a more fun, and took itself less seriously than this emo crap we have today. The roots of Pop punk were as much in late 80s and early 90s dance pop as they were in true Punk.

Late 90s pop punk was a more fun, and took itself less seriously than this emo crap we have today. The roots of Pop punk were as much in late 80s and early 90s dance pop as they were in true Punk.


Yeah it was better than emo, emo is 99 % crap.

Yeah it was better than emo, emo is 99 % crap.


Ironically, 80% of the difference between the two genres is atittude. Musically (in terms of chord structure) the two genres were surprisingly similar - compare early NOFX with Fall Out Boy - but at least pop punk lyrics were about vegging out watching MTV, getting stoned, girls, being a loser - whereas emo singers whine about their oh-so-sorry lives with their whiney lyrics.

Pop culturaly, you're right about it being 2001. However, the '00s really began on January 1, 2000.

Pop culturaly, you're right about it being 2001. However, the '00s really began on January 1, 2000.


It hard to say what it is pop culturally, I do see the point of the 1999 view and I see the point of the 2001 view, there's no definitive answer really which is why they began on 1/1/00.

Hmm...lots of people born before 1988 say that 2001 was the beginning of the '00s, too. Ask Marty McFly.

As for the 9/11 thing: you're Australian, honey. I live in the NE US...that changed everything here, and even for most Americans, it was a huge, huge major change in the way things "were."


Yeah, 9/11 dominated everything on the airwaves, daily conversations and in a certain extent, ways of life (i.e. stricter security at airports). Sure, I've lived through other notable events and tragedies too, but this was definitely one of those things everyone remembers and was touched by in some way.


Oh, and from a pop culture stance, I now think the '00s overtook the '90s anywhere from very late 2000 to Summer '01. Just because that's when Eminem, Destiny's Child, etc. got really popular, and the more poppy boyband stuff from Nsync, etc. was fading. It's also when Britney and Christina altered their image to the more "dirty/slutty" style and less like the more innocent way they were in early 1999. As many people mentioned too, the explosion of Reality TV in the Summer of '00 helped kickstart it too.

However, 9/11 is a good drawing point for the overall "90s/00s line", just because Emo and 50 Cent-type rap didn't really exist in the masses before 2002.

Yeah, if it's not 1999 it's more late 2000/2001 than post-Sept 11, but I'm still maintaining '99 was a bigger overall change.

Yeah, if it's not 1999 it's more late 2000/2001 than post-Sept 11, but I'm still maintaining '99 was a bigger overall change.


Are we STILL arguing about this. lol

2001 is also when the faded denim started to become really popular.