www.latimes.com/la-me-tiger26dec26,0,744512.story

I don't know why anyone would be surprised at this, I also do not blame the tiger and thing it is sad that this situation came about.
I have to admit I am not a big fan of Zoos, never have been since visiting them as a child.  At that time they were dismal affairs, I still cringe remembering the Elephant House at the Franklin Park Zoo, the elephant chained to a wall rocking back and forth.  With all the "advances" I still see the zoo as a holding pen for animals that should be freer to roam.  Nature preserves are ok, they are protected habitats allowing the animals to live as the would naturally, be studied, and get care.  Zoos for the afternoon amusement of people are objectionable, as is the ownership of animals who should be in the wild.  I can't stand to see elephant rides, petting zoos, or people who "just love snakes" or lizards, or any other animal that should be out in its own habitat, so they keep them in a cage in their home(whose idea of love is a cage?).  I think it is time to phase them out.

www.latimes.com/la-me-tiger26dec26,0,744512.story

I don't know why anyone would be surprised at this, I also do not blame the tiger and thing it is sad that this situation came about.
I have to admit I am not a big fan of Zoos, never have been since visiting them as a child.  At that time they were dismal affairs, I still cringe remembering the Elephant House at the Franklin Park Zoo, the elephant chained to a wall rocking back and forth.  With all the "advances" I still see the zoo as a holding pen for animals that should be freer to roam.  Nature preserves are ok, they are protected habitats allowing the animals to live as the would naturally, be studied, and get care.  Zoos for the afternoon amusement of people are objectionable, as is the ownership of animals who should be in the wild.  I can't stand to see elephant rides, petting zoos, or people who "just love snakes" or lizards, or any other animal that should be out in its own habitat, so they keep them in a cage in their home(whose idea of love is a cage?).  I think it is time to phase them out.



Believe me when I say that the depressing nature of zoos have NOT changed. We took Jason to the San Francisco Zoo for his first birthday a couple of years ago. I wanted to cry. Never again.

I don't fault the tiger for escaping. I'm impressed though. They said she didn't go through any open areas, so she would have had to jump some pretty substantial moats, walls, and/or fences.

I will have to say that I have been very impressed with the Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium. The conditions for the animals are really nice...they have it set up so that each animal has their own natural habitat setting. They don't seem uncomfortable in any sort of way. Yes, I do agree that it would be BEST for them to be able to roam free...but the next best thing would be a setting like this. At least they aren't in danger of being killed by other animals and/or hunters.

I will have to say that I have been very impressed with the Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium. The conditions for the animals are really nice...they have it set up so that each animal has their own natural habitat setting. They don't seem uncomfortable in any sort of way. Yes, I do agree that it would be BEST for them to be able to roam free...but the next best thing would be a setting like this. At least they aren't in danger of being killed by other animals and/or hunters.


The San Francisco Zoo is nothing like that. Very few of the animals have natural settings, and they just look so damned depressed. A couple of years ago, all their elephants died, and I have no doubt it was from their environment. :(

The San Francisco Zoo is nothing like that. Very few of the animals have natural settings, and they just look so damned depressed. A couple of years ago, all their elephants died, and I have no doubt it was from their environment. :(



that's really very sad. I am very much against shoving an animal in a cage or other very restricted area...that has to be horrible for them. Unless they have LOTS of room to roam..in their own habitat/setting...than I am also very much against it.

Believe me when I say that the depressing nature of zoos have NOT changed. We took Jason to the San Francisco Zoo for his first birthday a couple of years ago. I wanted to cry. Never again.

I don't fault the tiger for escaping. I'm impressed though. They said she didn't go through any open areas, so she would have had to jump some pretty substantial moats, walls, and/or fences.
I wonder if there is surveilence video of her escape.I feel bad for the cop who had to shoot her.probably couldn't do anything else.

I've been to the San Francisco Zoo before, and it was fairly blah as far as the animal's surroundings. The zoo that impressed me more was the Oakland Zoo. I've been there twice and the settings are much more free for the animals. I do feel terrible for the SF Zoo and hope they can overcome these unfortunate circumstances. I don't think zoos should be take away completely, but it is a tough call. I mean if some animals are just not able to roam freely in their natural habitats for whatever reason, then a zoo would probably be a good place for them.

The problem with saying that the zoos ought to be closed is that there are hundreds of animals in capitivity that have virtually no numbers in the wild and the only way to ensure their survival is to breed them in captivity with the hope that one day the numbers will be large enough so as to begin a reintroduction process.

The problem with saying that the zoos ought to be closed is that there are hundreds of animals in capitivity that have virtually no numbers in the wild and the only way to ensure their survival is to breed them in captivity with the hope that one day the numbers will be large enough so as to begin a reintroduction process.


I think this could be done better in native habitats and on preserves as opposed to zoos. 

I'm not a big fan of Zoos either. I think its selfish of us to cage the animals for our amusement. I think in terms of research it can be a good thing but isn't better to study them in their natural environment?

I think this could be done better in native habitats and on preserves as opposed to zoos. 


Maybe, but if you follow the situation in Africa on the preserves, locals hunt endangered animals, sometimes killing wildlife workers simply to get at the animals. Although education could solve some of this, the greed and lure of selling endangered and rare animals is obviously very strong.

Like Danoota, I haven't been to a zoo since I was a child.  Coincidentally, it was the elephant on exhibit that made me feel sad.  There was this awesome creature--and overwhelming spectacle for a seven-year-old--standing not 30 feet away, and yet he gave an aura of listlessness and despair.  He just moped in his concrete enclosure with the tiny pool and his own filth.  On one hand, perhaps I was reading too much into as an impressionable child.  On the other hand, elephants are keenly intelligent animals who remember everything and are acutely aware of their surroundings.  Perhaps he really was depressed.

In the 1970s zoos were certainly more humane than they were 50 or 100 years earlier.  Today people are certainly more conscientious than 30 years ago, but a zoo is still a zoo.  

I'd rather see animals protected on wildlife preserves.  Many of the most charismatic members of the animal kingdom, such as elephants and tigers are fighting for their very survival.  If that tiger was running free in a park in Africa, she would still be alive.  A tiger resents being locked up in a cage just about as much as you would.  If we're worried about endangered species, then let's protect them where we know they will thrive--in wilderness parks.  

Yes, zoos have educational value, but at what cost?
???


Maybe, but if you follow the situation in Africa on the preserves, locals hunt endangered animals, sometimes killing wildlife workers simply to get at the animals. Although education could solve some of this, the greed and lure of selling endangered and rare animals is obviously very strong.

This is true and it totally sucks.  There's an incentive.  Bag a male rhino and make a small fortune so some rich Chinese dude can pulverize its pecker to keep his yang up.
::)

This is true and it totally sucks.  There's an incentive.  Bag a male rhino and make a small fortune so some rich Chinese dude can pulverize its pecker to keep his yang up.
::)


Right, don't get me wrong, I certainly believe these animals would be better off in the wild, or in large, but limited access preserves, so as to ensure their continued survival without stunting their natural growth. The problem is, it's almost impossible to do that without initiating a shoot to kill policy with the local people. Another issue is that with many endangered animals, their habitats are under severe threat and some are no longer able to maintain their existence in said habitats. The logging industry in many parts of Africa has put the Mountain Gorilla under threat, it's disgusting to see such creatures forced from their habitat.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5glzUOMikfoz-ZJpJUpoGhJksoajw

It looks like these idiots were Darwin award candidates... they taunted them and tried getting it out of the enclosure.

Zoos aren't a perfect solution by any means, but nature can be just as cruel.  Watch a nature film sometime.  The animals might be bored, but they're also not going to be lunch for another animal either.

In this day and age I'm surprised they don't cameras at all the cages to watch for this sort of behavior... :(

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5glzUOMikfoz-ZJpJUpoGhJksoajw

It looks like these idiots were Darwin award candidates... they taunted them and tried getting it out of the enclosure.

Zoos aren't a perfect solution by any means, but nature can be just as cruel.  Watch a nature film sometime.  The animals might be bored, but they're also not going to be lunch for another animal either.


It's speculation at this point, not actual fact that he dangled a leg over. The shoeprint could have been from earlier when someone might have lifted their kid up on the railing to see better, the blood might be from the tiger trying to drag the guy back to the den. The only way they're going to find out what really happened is if those two other people recover. If it turns out that he did dangle a body part....well, sucks to be him. The tiger was doing what was natural.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5glzUOMikfoz-ZJpJUpoGhJksoajw

It looks like these idiots were Darwin award candidates... they taunted them and tried getting it out of the enclosure.
Speaking of Darwin, I think about tigers and I think about man.  The reason homo sapiens sapiens thrived without claws, fangs, high velocity, or great body mass is our highly evolved cerebral cortex.  There were a lot more tigers in the old days and our ancestors of the paleolithic era knew if you don't use your brains, the tiger wins every time!!!
Lesson 1:  Never tease a tiger.
:D

I know why the policy is in place, yet it still seems unjustified.  She didn't deserve to die because those kids were frikkin' morons.  A tiger does not have the capacity for reason.  She wasn't going to turn her tail, shrug, and say: "I could shred those punks in three seconds but it's not worth the trouble, the authorities will kill me if I do." 

So that magnificent creature gets gunned down like a rabid cur merely because she obeyed her instinct and killed some humans dumb enough to override their own instincts!

Zoos aren't a perfect solution by any means, but nature can be just as cruel.  Watch a nature film sometime.  The animals might be bored, but they're also not going to be lunch for another animal either.

It didn't get all fouled up until man started meddling with it.  The prey versus predator relationship evolved over millions upon millions of years.  It benefited both the species of prey and the preyed upon species.  You see a crocodile snag a zebra, of course you feel sorry for the zebra, but without crocodiles there would be too many zebras.  Would you rather see zebras starving to death?  Around here people complain about deer stumbling across the highways and deer munching on the shrubs in their backyards.  Remember wolves?  Not in our lifetime.  Our ancestors wiped them out as a menace to livestock.  However, wolves were efficient at keeping the deer population from maxing out its own food supply!  Sure, coyotes are back around the Quabbin, but folks speak ill of them too!
::)

The best zoo is the San Deigo Zoo. It's also the biggest zoo in America and the animals run freely most of the season.

I'm no activist or anything. I just hope that zoos would not be taken for granted.

It's speculation at this point, not actual fact that he dangled a leg over. The shoeprint could have been from earlier when someone might have lifted their kid up on the railing to see better, the blood might be from the tiger trying to drag the guy back to the den. The only way they're going to find out what really happened is if those two other people recover. If it turns out that he did dangle a body part....well, sucks to be him. The tiger was doing what was natural.


Don't the fools watch tv? You taunt the tiger enough,then they will pull out a protractor and a planning chart,ruler,some nails and wood, build a ladder, and gets over the wall and looks for them and eats them....some take longer and mail away to ACME and order a catapult. So don't mess with animals they can get out!

I don't find myself feeling much sympathy for the tiger that had to be killed. I feel it for the victims family. It sure seemed like the zoo was not taking responsibility for what happened. It killed a young boy at the zoo and there was no time to do anything else without risking more human harm but to kill it. I feel it's primarily the zoo's fault. I don't care if the beast was teased or taunted, there is no way that the animal should get out of it's cage or enclosure. That's the zoo's fault completely. Even if the tiger was taunted (which the San Francisco police chief says there is no evidence that it was) the animal should not have been able to get out. what if the boy did taunt the tiger and it somehow escaped and killed an innocent bystander, would it be the boys fault that the tiger got out? I mean, c'mon, the theory that he dangled his leg and that offered the tiger just enough extra reach to get out. That's ridiculous that the tiger only needed an extra 3 feet to climb out. There should be more than just the length of a human keeping it from escaping. I guess I don't like seeing animals like that kept in captivity. It's like being in prison. They don't get to stalk and hunt prey and live & behave in their natural way. It's a shame and maybe I do have some sympathy for the beast as it was doing what tigers do best. hunt and kill. It's scary that the public's safety is really not guaranteed, although I read that SF zoo is not as safe as many other zoos throught the country.

I've read several conflicting reports on this story: some have the tiger, Tatiana, anywhere from 4-9 years old, the enclosure dimensions vary quite a bit from article to article and there are other fairly major inconsistencies.

Is it possible to build a tiger cage both tiger and human-proof? Sure, but that didn't happen here. No idea which is at fault here yet - ISTM that both are.

Tigers are still wild animals that occasionally maul even the most careful and caring expert trainers and handlers. If it is proven these guys were taunting the tiger, even lowering limbs into the cage, well DA, here they come!

Just a laymen's guess, but I'd imagine a 'naturally escaped' tiger (i.e., managed to get of of its cage with no help or provocation) would not maul the first people it sees, rather shy away from a 1 on 3 confrontation.

Ant

I've read several conflicting reports on this story: some have the tiger, Tatiana, anywhere from 4-9 years old, the enclosure dimensions vary quite a bit from article to article and there are other fairly major inconsistencies.

Is it possible to build a tiger cage both tiger and human-proof? Sure, but that didn't happen here. No idea which is at fault here yet - ISTM that both are.

Tigers are still wild animals that occasionally maul even the most careful and caring expert trainers and handlers. If it is proven these guys were taunting the tiger, even lowering limbs into the cage, well DA, here they come!

Just a laymen's guess, but I'd imagine a 'naturally escaped' tiger (i.e., managed to get of of its cage with no help or provocation) would not maul the first people it sees, rather shy away from a 1 on 3 confrontation.

Ant


I think they've confirmed that the walls were lower than they should have been. It was also said before that she chewed the flesh off the arm of the person who was feeding her last year, which led to a bunch of changes, but experts attributed that to "normal tiger instincts". And if you've seen how some people act at zoos (like they belong in a cage themselves), it wouldn't be too farfetched for an escaped animal to attack the first person it saw, especially if they've been stared at and mocked all day. Hell, I've even seen people throw food and other stuff at these animals.

I don't know. I'm torn on this one. My attitude about it changed yesterday because ISTM that everyone is going to try and place the blame on these people, regardless of the actual facts. For all we know, it could have been a serious fluke accident where no one was to blame.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/28/tiger.escapes.ap/index.html

"I think it could be feasible for a cat that has been taunted or angered," Jack Hanna, former director of the Columbus Zoo, said Thursday. "I don't think it would ever just do it to do it."

Old Jack must have forgotten that animals are always unpredictable.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/28/tiger.escapes.ap/index.html

"I think it could be feasible for a cat that has been taunted or angered," Jack Hanna, former director of the Columbus Zoo, said Thursday. "I don't think it would ever just do it to do it."

Old Jack must have forgotten that animals are always unpredictable.


no, I think I'll stick to his opinion.  The animal saw an opportunity and predictably took it.  It's a very rare case when you hear of an incident like this in a modern zoo, where the person injured wasn't doing something they shouldn't be.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5glzUOMikfoz-ZJpJUpoGhJksoajw

It looks like these idiots were Darwin award candidates... they taunted them and tried getting it out of the enclosure.

Zoos aren't a perfect solution by any means, but nature can be just as cruel.  Watch a nature film sometime.  The animals might be bored, but they're also not going to be lunch for another animal either.
I feel that's what happened too.True,the wall was fouind to be too short,but that means that Tatiana didn't choose to come out and attack until Christmas.I would say something provoked her to do this.The two brothers apparently have an alchohol problem,with several arrests for public drunkenness.people do stupid things while drunk.if nothing else,amybe the brothers will wake up and stop drinking.

I would guess that "Cool Beer"Dhaliwal and his brother were both drinking again and being stupid as a result.

I would say something provoked her to do this.The two brothers apparently have an alchohol problem,with several arrests for public drunkenness.



Yeah, it is called being 17.

I feel that's what happened too.True,the wall was fouind to be too short,but that means that Tatiana didn't choose to come out and attack until Christmas.I would say something provoked her to do this.The two brothers apparently have an alchohol problem,with several arrests for public drunkenness.people do stupid things while drunk.if nothing else,amybe the brothers will wake up and stop drinking.


http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7827401?source=most_emailed&nclick_check=1

Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested on charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date.

Two arrests for public drunkeness does not an alcohol problem make. Sorry. Furthermore, how the hell would they be drunk in a zoo? The zoo doesn't serve beer and by the time they would have gotten to the big cats, any alcohol drunk before entering the zoo would have worn off.

But see, the logic is that since they were arrested for drunken stupidity months ago, they must have been drunk and stupid and provoking the tiger because otherwise the tiger would not have done wrong!  Don't you know anything?  >:(

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7827401?source=most_emailed&nclick_check=1

Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested on charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date.

Two arrests for public drunkeness does not an alcohol problem make. Sorry. Furthermore, how the hell would they be drunk in a zoo? The zoo doesn't serve beer and by the time they would have gotten to the big cats, any alcohol drunk before entering the zoo would have worn off.


Whilst I agree with your point and fully understand what you're saying.. you're telling me you've not been on a bender where the results last hours? I'm a big guy, a lot bigger than you.. and I've drank myself stupid and been trashed for hours after before, easily long enough to get to any zoo exhibit.  ;D

Whilst I agree with your point and fully understand what you're saying.. you're telling me you've not been on a bender where the results last hours? I'm a big guy, a lot bigger than you.. and I've drank myself stupid and been trashed for hours after before, easily long enough to get to any zoo exhibit.  ;D


If they're beer drinkers, then they're lightweights, and it wouldn't have lasted. :D

And yes I have. My liver still hates me. ;D

But see, the logic is that since they were arrested for drunken stupidity months ago, they must have been drunk and stupid and provoking the tiger because otherwise the tiger would not have done wrong!  Don't you know anything?  >:(
maybe they got the tiger drunk

maybe they got the tiger drunk


That explains the Siegfried and Roy thing, they left one of their fruity drinks out for the tigers by accident... :(

That explains the Siegfried and Roy thing, they left one of their fruity drinks out for the tigers by accident... :(
  ;D  whoa, now that's biting humor.  What happend to that white tiger?

  ;D  whoa, now that's biting humor.   What happend to that white tiger?


I think Siegfried and Roy fought with people so she wouldn't be euthanized.

I think Siegfried and Roy fought with people so she wouldn't be euthanized.
yeah, they love their big cats so I'm sure they would do all they could to save the animal even if it had killed him. that one munched on his neck pretty severely. working with trained predators is such a huge risk. I personally don't think I'd pay to see a show like that, yanno, trained tigers and lions. it seems undignified

You know, with Tatiana's frustration and anger managment issues and Paul's insobriety and poor judgment, they could have really hit it off.  I mean, they would have tooootaly gotten on each other's nerves at first but by the end of the summer they would have best pals and learned something about life, and love, and how to appreciate the differences we all have....

erm, never mind.
:-\\

You know, with Tatiana's frustration and anger managment issues and Paul's insobriety and poor judgment, they could have really hit it off.  I mean, they would have tooootaly gotten on each other's nerves at first but by the end of the summer they would have best pals and learned something about life, and love, and how to appreciate the differences we all have....

erm, never mind.
:-\\


Awww, a touching Lifetime movie. :D

One of the first changes (after bigger walls),STOP HUMANIZING WILD ANIMALS BY GIVING THEM NAMES!!!

You give your puppy or kitty a name NOT BEASTS. ???

yeah, they love their big cats so I'm sure they would do all they could to save the animal even if it had killed him. that one munched on his neck pretty severely. working with trained predators is such a huge risk. I personally don't think I'd pay to see a show like that, yanno, trained tigers and lions. it seems undignified


I wonder if the tiger, once it had munched on its victim,put on a red neck scarf, turned its head and said...

They're grrrrrrrrrrreat!!!!!!

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7827401?source=most_emailed&nclick_check=1

Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested on charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date.

Two arrests for public drunkeness does not an alcohol problem make. Sorry. Furthermore, how the hell would they be drunk in a zoo? The zoo doesn't serve beer and by the time they would have gotten to the big cats, any alcohol drunk before entering the zoo would have worn off.
if they've been arrested twice for drunkenness,most likely they have been drunk numerous times without getting caught.No one gets arrested every time they're drunk --possibly mmaybe 1/10 of the time at most.The police aren't everywhere.They didn't just happen to catch them the only times they were drunk.And if you drunk beer,it takes a little while for the full effects to be apparent.

Yeah, it is called being 17.
The brohters are older.

If they're beer drinkers, then they're lightweights, and it wouldn't have lasted. :D

And yes I have. My liver still hates me. ;D
It would depend on how much beer you have.If I drink 2 beers(cans),I am at least buzzed for at least an hour.and many people consider that to be next to nothing!

if they've been arrested twice for drunkenness,most likely they have been drunk numerous times without getting caught.No one gets arrested every time they're drunk --possibly mmaybe 1/10 of the time at most.The police aren't everywhere.They didn't just happen to catch them the only times they were drunk.And if you drunk beer,it takes a little while for the full effects to be apparent.
dag. are we supposed to be arresting people every time they got drunk? wow, i sure would have one hell of a rap sheet.  :o

dag. are we supposed to be arresting people every time they got drunk? wow, i sure would have one hell of a rap sheet.  :o


My extended family and I would be sharing a jail cell.

My extended family and I would be sharing a jail cell.
that's the cell i want! i think that strategy might backfire from the perspective of Johnny Law cuz in the marionocracy jails are gonna seriously swing. "hey man!!! is this my cell? where's the friggin' coors party ball man? omg?! is that actually spuds mackenzie? i didn't recognize him in the orange jumpsuit. sweet! anyway, i thought i might wind up pinched so i brought some oscar meyers, just point me toward the grill for once i'm topped off. and hey, what's that playing on the sound system? is that some uncut 77 bond theme? i love this stuff, and the strobe lighting is an excellent touch. jail rocks! now where's my effin' drinkl? it's time to show the ladies how to step to it old school! oh, and, um, pay my debt to society or whatever."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX8NmYS86bg&feature=related

dag. are we supposed to be arresting people every time they got drunk? wow, i sure would have one hell of a rap sheet.  :o
How many entiries would it have?

Okay,so the brothers are going to sue the zoo now. I guess theu have a point.The zoo should haveknown a female tiger isn't any more appreciative of sexual harassment by drunks than a female human would be!

not sure if this was true that a slingshot was found near the scene..where they used it to taunt the animal, and then on the other side,the zoo apparently didn't believe the report the tiger was loose...and why would the tiger happen to pick the 'same three' who bugged it in the first place...we'll find out same TIGER time , same TIGER channel

And now the infamous lawyer Mark Geragos will be representing the 2 brothers that wouldn't talk or cooperate with the police in a lawsuit against the zoo. interesting thing in the news was the possibility of the boys harassing an animal on the endangered or some special list that protects them and if they did, they could be in trouble for that, if it can be proven. The SF cops found an empty vodka bottle in the boys car which is just an empty container citation unless they can prove they got drunk and then taunted the tiger, but at this point, it's looking like the zoo is gonna end up eating a big sh*t burger on this one.

And now the infamous lawyer Mark Geragos will be representing the 2 brothers that wouldn't talk or cooperate with the police in a lawsuit against the zoo. interesting thing in the news was the possibility of the boys harassing an animal on the endangered or some special list that protects them and if they did, they could be in trouble for that, if it can be proven. The SF cops found an empty vodka bottle in the boys car which is just an empty container citation unless they can prove they got drunk and then taunted the tiger, but at this point, it's looking like the zoo is gonna end up eating a big sh*t burger on this one.


Apparently a witness has come forward saying that she saw the two brothers taunting the lions by roaring at them before they moved on to the tigers. The one that was actually killed wasn't doing it and might have been possibly trying to stop them.

Regardless of the fact of whether they were drunk or not, or whether they were taunting the tiger or not, the zoo is at fault for not having a big enough wall. I have witnessed tons of people taunting animals on our few trips to the zoo, so this isn't like a new occurence (ask Rice Cube about his taunting of the wild turkey ::)), which is what the zoo is making it sound like. If that was their slingshot, then they're just sick, but that doesn't change the fact that the wall was TOO LOW. I'm not excusing them in any way, but if it's true about the taunts and slingshots, well, they more than got theirs, not counting the fact that they will have to live with their friend's death for the rest of their lives.

However, I'm not inclined to believe anything until the full investigation is done, although it is certainly looking like the two brothers are guilty of something if they're retaining a powerful and semi-famous lawyer. :P

Apparently a witness has come forward saying that she saw the two brothers taunting the lions by roaring at them before they moved on to the tigers. The one that was actually killed wasn't doing it and might have been possibly trying to stop them.

Regardless of the fact of whether they were drunk or not, or whether they were taunting the tiger or not, the zoo is at fault for not having a big enough wall. I have witnessed tons of people taunting animals on our few trips to the zoo, so this isn't like a new occurence (ask Rice Cube about his taunting of the wild turkey ::)), which is what the zoo is making it sound like. If that was their slingshot, then they're just sick, but that doesn't change the fact that the wall was TOO LOW. I'm not excusing them in any way, but if it's true about the taunts and slingshots, well, they more than got theirs, not counting the fact that they will have to live with their friend's death for the rest of their lives.

However, I'm not inclined to believe anything until the full investigation is done, although it is certainly looking like the two brothers are guilty of something if they're retaining a powerful and semi-famous lawyer. :P
I've been to zoos and i've never seen anyone taunting Animals.

I've been to zoos and i've never seen anyone taunting Animals.


You must have gone on a day where everyone was nice and held hands then :)

Oh yeah, the turkey thing...hehehehe...so there's like a bunch of turkey hens right?  And they're all behind the fence and really fat so I don't think they could fly (if turkeys could fly anyway) so I started making gobble noises and this turkey rooster got ALL mad and puffed up his chest feathers and started strutting and gobbling back.  It was awesome.  I think the boy was asleep though so he didn't get to enjoy it.

Never taunted a tiger or a lion though, probably not a good idea as we can see.

If you were in a zoo wouldn't you be pissed if someone taunted you???

If you were in a zoo wouldn't you be pissed if someone taunted you???


Oh yeah, I mean, I didn't say it was right for me to taunt the turkey...he definitely was pissed and if he had opposable thumbs like the monkeys he probably would've thrown feces at me :P

Regardless of the fact of whether they were drunk or not, or whether they were taunting the tiger or not, the zoo is at fault for not having a big enough wall.



Exactly.  These are wild animals and things do set them off.  If not taunting something else could spark something in their minds and they can go off.  The wall was not big enough and that is the zoo's fault.

Oh yeah, I mean, I didn't say it was right for me to taunt the turkey...he definitely was pissed and if he had opposable thumbs like the monkeys he probably would've thrown feces at me :P


sorry Rice I didn't mean you personally I just meant in general... at least you were smart enough to taunt something that couldn't kill you... I suppose he could've pecked you to death but he'd have to catch you first and I don't think turkeys move all that fast  ;D

sorry Rice I didn't mean you personally I just meant in general... at least you were smart enough to taunt something that couldn't kill you... I suppose he could've pecked you to death but he'd have to catch you first and I don't think turkeys move all that fast  ;D


I probably would've wrestled him to the ground and then cooked him for dinner...for a week.  BIG turkey :D

*DROOL*  mmmm Turkey...

You must have gone on a day where everyone was nice and held hands then :)

Oh yeah, the turkey thing...hehehehe...so there's like a bunch of turkey hens right?  And they're all behind the fence and really fat so I don't think they could fly (if turkeys could fly anyway) so I started making gobble noises and this turkey rooster got ALL mad and puffed up his chest feathers and started strutting and gobbling back.  It was awesome.  I think the boy was asleep though so he didn't get to enjoy it.

Never taunted a tiger or a lion though, probably not a good idea as we can see.

Oh, I thought Jessica was talking about the kind of Wild Turkey that comes in a bottle.  I learned a hard less about that at a young age!
:-\\

What's all the fuss with animals???

Haven't you seen: lionhugsandkisseswoman.wmv

It may come up on the curezone site...take a look ;)

What's all the fuss with animals???

Haven't you seen: lionhugsandkisseswoman.wmv

It may come up on the curezone site...take a look ;)
if i watch this, will i be overwhelmed with much needed cuteness and love? or is it going to be like two girls one cup?

if i watch this, will i be overwhelmed with much needed cuteness and love? or is it going to be like two girls one cup?


very sweet that's why you can compare it to that mean tiger everyone is talking about!

very sweet that's why you can compare it to that mean tiger everyone is talking about!


the tiger wasn't mean... it wasn't anything but a tiger. That lion is cute but I bet it would attack if it were teased.  See nurture or nature.... nurture is nice but eventually nature wins out... 

the tiger wasn't mean... it wasn't anything but a tiger. That lion is cute but I bet it would attack if it were teased.  See nurture or nature.... nurture is nice but eventually nature wins out... 


We'll see what happens when they call in the 'tiger whisperer'....

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggg!

Didn't read the whole story for the reason or details but the headline alone got me to ask WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA???????????????

They are asking/looking into the cell phone records of someone involved with the escaped animal....if it is the victim, WHAT???,even if the victim had a call where he says 'gues what I just did to the tiger etc...' THE ZOO HAS TO BE RESPONSIBLE for the safety of the people.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggg!

Didn't read the whole story for the reason or details but the headline alone got me to ask WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA???????????????

They are asking/looking into the cell phone records of someone involved with the escaped animal....if it is the victim, WHAT???,even if the victim had a call where he says 'gues what I just did to the tiger etc...' THE ZOO HAS TO BE RESPONSIBLE for the safety of the people.
Paaramedics say theu heard the brothers tell each other not to tell what they did.

the zoo has a responsibility to safeguard the public from the animals but if the guys went to great effort to get around these safeguards then they are totally to blame....

it seems one of these post mentioned someone possibly dangling a leg over the wall and then the tiger used the leg to gain leverage and get out... anyone dumb enough to dangle a leg in front  of a tiger kind of deserves to get bit... maybe not killed but maimed a little...

Paaramedics say theu heard the brothers tell each other not to tell what they did.


That story does continue and gets deeper...whatever they said NOT to sayshould be found out ..if they can do it legally..that's  a lot of money for the zoo to lose if they go to court over it..

They're not going to be charged because they weren't taunting her.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/07/tiger.attack/index.html

What gets me is that everyone is saying she must have been provoked, she had a reason to jump, blah blah blah. Yet they're not bringing up the fact that Tatiana had attacked someone before (a feeder, who is also suing the zoo), so obviously she was just a wee bit pissed about something, possibly the fact that she was locked in a hellhole.

it makes me wonder if there's a broader cultural movement afoot to find reasons to blame people for being injured or killed in situations that are ostensibly beyond their control. you see it with katrina, with the iraqis who are guilty of not knowing how to properly be occupied, and now if youre mauled by tigers you must have had it coming. ::) i dunno, it seems like a part of a larger cultural shift to me, a reflection of a more general philosophy that's on the rise. but i've been known to be a little paranoid about such things so...

it makes me wonder if there's a broader cultural movement afoot to find reasons to blame people for being injured or killed in situations that are ostensibly beyond their control. you see it with katrina, with the iraqis who are guilty of not knowing how to properly be occupied, and now if youre mauled by tigers you must have had it coming. ::) i dunno, it seems like a part of a larger cultural shift to me, a reflection of a more general philosophy that's on the rise. but i've been known to be a little paranoid about such things so...


Sort of a "blame the victim" thing? No, I think you're right. You see it in a lot of rape cases.

Sort of a "blame the victim" thing? No, I think you're right. You see it in a lot of rape cases.
yeah, i started typing "blame the victim" but then stopped because i sorta wanted to defamiliarize it. that term's become a bit of a cliche but the phenomenon seems to be alive and well. :(

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/18/MNEIUH4B9.DTL&tsp=1

so yeah, they admitted to taunting the animal until it lashed out at them.  They don't admit to dangling themselves over the enclosure walls, but since they denied taunting it originally, I doubt I believe that.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/18/MNEIUH4B9.DTL&tsp=1

so yeah, they admitted to taunting the animal until it lashed out at them.  They don't admit to dangling themselves over the enclosure walls, but since they denied taunting it originally, I doubt I believe that.


Yeah, I'm quite disgusted with it all. After all the BS and the denials, they finally admit to it. Ugh, I feel dirty for even trying to defend them. Too bad the one that actually did the most taunting wasn't the one to meet up with Darwin. I doubt anyone will learn anything from this though. You're always going to have people who think it's funny to taunt the animals and treat them like crap. :P

I still don't like the fact that the wall was too short by four feet. Apparently that is a big issue with the director of the zoo. When he was managing the LA Zoo, at least three dozen animals escaped, but no one said anything because he brought the zoo out of the red. Same goes for this one.

Yeah, I'm quite disgusted with it all. After all the BS and the denials, they finally admit to it. Ugh, I feel dirty for even trying to defend them. Too bad the one that actually did the most taunting wasn't the one to meet up with Darwin. I doubt anyone will learn anything from this though. You're always going to have people who think it's funny to taunt the animals and treat them like crap. :P

I still don't like the fact that the wall was too short by four feet. Apparently that is a big issue with the director of the zoo. When he was managing the LA Zoo, at least three dozen animals escaped, but no one said anything because he brought the zoo out of the red. Same goes for this one.
I guess they thought mommy coulndn't handle the truth.

oozy rat in a sanitary zoo

Yeah, I'm quite disgusted with it all. After all the BS and the denials, they finally admit to it. Ugh, I feel dirty for even trying to defend them. Too bad the one that actually did the most taunting wasn't the one to meet up with Darwin. I doubt anyone will learn anything from this though. You're always going to have people who think it's funny to taunt the animals and treat them like crap. :P

I still don't like the fact that the wall was too short by four feet. Apparently that is a big issue with the director of the zoo. When he was managing the LA Zoo, at least three dozen animals escaped, but no one said anything because he brought the zoo out of the red. Same goes for this one.


I'm with you.  I want to smack the crap out of them for taunting the tiger, but the walls were still too short.  What if she had eaten a kid that just happened to be walking by? 

I'm with you.  I want to smack the crap out of them for taunting the tiger, but the walls were still too short.  What if she had eaten a kid that just happened to be walking by? 
I see your point,but lots of kids already have walked by.I feel the guys were chosen for a reason.

I see your point,but lots of kids already have walked by.I feel the guys were chosen for a reason.


I see your point as well, but let me add one more thing.  This tiger had already attacked a feeder who was feeding her.  They should have then realized that she was very aggressive and built the wall up. 

It really doesn't matter to me what those guys were doing.  They were seventeen, drunk, and acting stupid. I think a good many of us have been there, and in situations where we could have ended up dead because of it.  Doesn't mean we deserved it.  The zoo had a problem from the start, if it wasn't these kids it could have been someones child.  The zoo is totally at fault.

In this day and age I'm surprised they don't cameras at all the cages to watch for this sort of behavior... :(


yes i am surprised too. just the same way a diamond store will have cameras over their objects of value so should a zoo...even more so at a zoo especially because all the young obnoxious brats that go to a zoo. pricks. i dont beleive any zoo's should be closed down or anything like that. when was the last time a similar incident occurred?

hi. i am so in agreement with this.  as a child i was fascinated by zoos. but also, by circuses.  and the truth is, most zoos and ALL circuses, are NOT fit places for animals.  i get sad now, when i go to a zoo, even famous lincon park zoo in chicago, or the lovely san diego zoo, , , , ,i am sad to see animals that are bored, penned in, unhappy, restless and when i see that 'pacing' behavior, i just want to scream.  it is not fair.  i feel SO bad for them : ( 
i am glad that others are thinking of this.  i believe in the future, we won't have this problem anymore.  in the world where my lovely 10 and 15 year old daughters are in charge. . .  NO animals will suffer.  ok. thanks to all of you for believing this way - hi to everyone, i am so new here. . . : )

I see your point as well, but let me add one more thing.  This tiger had already attacked a feeder who was feeding her.  They should have then realized that she was very aggressive and built the wall up. 
yes,but that had nothing to do with how tall the wall was.

yes,but that had nothing to do with how tall the wall was.


You're right, it didn't have anything to do with the height of the wall, it had to do with the aggressiveness of the cat.  They knew dang well how tall that wall was and they knew how tall it needed to be, the should have built the wall up.