inthe00s
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Subject: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:08 am


THIS POLL IS ONLY OPEN TO MEMBERS WHO SIGNED UP BY JAN 11TH 2014. 
IF YOU JOINED THE 00ze JANUARY 12th or AFTER...please DO NOT vote. 

Thank you for your integrity.  :)



Alright it's late and I'm tired and I'm curious where current members stand... you do not have to tell your vote if you don't want but I would be curious to know how old you were in 2005. 





Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:18 am



It's no secret where I stand... it helps that I live in Santa Barbara and work in Law Enforcement and have spent time with people closely associated with this case. 

There is no question in my mind of his guilt so much was left out of the trial...but when all is said and done he got off anyway....  (the pun was unintended but I will let it stand  :D )

at the very least I think he should have been found guilt of inappropriate conduct and child endangerment or just using really piss poor judgement....  >:(

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: warped on 01/12/14 at 7:13 am



It's no secret where I stand... it helps that I live in Santa Barbara and work in Law Enforcement and have spent time with people closely associated with this case. 

There is no question in my mind of his guilt so much was left out of the trial...but when all is said and done he got off anyway....  (the pun was unintended but I will let it stand  :D )

at the very least I think he should have been found guilt of inappropriate conduct and child endangerment or just using really piss poor judgement....  >:(


You have mentioned that before and you also mentioned you were privy to information about the trial…some of it which made you disgusted or angry (something like that) , and so much stuff was left out of that trial.  So obviously no one on inthe00s would know more than you about what went on.



Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Dagwood on 01/12/14 at 7:19 am

I was 24 in 2005.  I watched him spiral from that cute little boy in The Jackson 5 to the freak he became.  I think it started with the commercial where his hair caught on fire...the drugs anyway.  IMO, he got too big without anyone there to tell him to knock it off.  When you go unchecked, being allowed to do whatever you want with no one telling you no only bad things can happen. 

And, yes, I think he was guilty. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:25 am


You have mentioned that before and you also mentioned you were privy to information about the trial…some of it which made you disgusted or angry (something like that) , and so much stuff was left out of that trial.  So obviously no one on inthe00s would know more than you about what went on.


I just figured some new members are not privy to my background so I thought I'd put it out there. I'm not going into details because I am not allowed to divulge them but I can say that I know enough to say that I am convinced.


oh and because I forgot to say so... I was 38 when it went down... I was actually in dispatch...one of the deputies keyed the mike when the fans outside of the courthouse were given the news... I was disgusted by the celebration.  My heart breaks for the kids affected and for the ones who's souls got sold out by their parents  :\'(

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tia on 01/12/14 at 8:08 am

i think he was probably guilty. I feel bad for his fans. They have so much love for him and it must be hard to hear for them, but the truth is stubborn.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: loki 13 on 01/12/14 at 8:44 am

A fan, short form of fanatic by it's very definition means you turn a blind eye to all the shortcomings. I liked
Michael Jackson since his time with the Jackson Five. Even though my taste in music was different than the
style of the Jacksons, I still admired what he did for the music industry.

That being said, I can not justify his actions outside of the industry. He was in serious need of professional help,
not the quackery he received. I was 45 at the time and yes I feel he was guilty.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 9:14 am


A fan, short form of fanatic by it's very definition means you turn a blind eye to all the shortcomings. I liked
Michael Jackson since his time with the Jackson Five. Even though my taste in music was different than the
style of the Jacksons, I still admired what he did for the music industry.

That being said, I can not justify his actions outside of the industry. He was in serious need of professional help,
not the quackery he received. I was 45 at the time and yes I feel he was guilty.



I know what you mean. I was a big fan in the 70s and 80s... I woke up early and grabbed my alphabits and watched the cartoon lol. . .  but the more he declined, and let's face it, those of us who saw it play out were witness to the decline of an icon.  I think this is why I'm curious about the age of people who want to believe he is not guilty. I feel like,  having discussed this with a few friends in light of a recent onslaught of fans joining these boards,  that perhaps the fact that they are younger and were exposed to MJ not Michael (and there is a difference) that they were already used to the persona he became. 

Yeah they have seen him, for lack of a better term, in a normal state, but that monstrosity that he became was normal to them because that's the MJ they knew first.  To me, the more surgeries there were the more distant from reality and Michael he became. and I just could never really look at him the same way. 

the lifestyle he lived was not helpful, abusive dad, sheltered life, famous too soon, no childhood. he was stunted and coddled.  I don't believe he meant to harm the kids but, then again, many pedophiles don't molest with the intention of controlling or demeaning their victims. in a very sick way many think what they do is an actual act of love. I think MJ was of this mindset.  what was it oprah called it? Child seduction rather than child molestation I think... 

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Oprah-on-How-Molesters-Groom-Children-Video


if that makes sense... I've been awake too  long

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 10:15 am

My concern was the kids on the witness stand stating they were in his bed, but it was all innocent

There is no reason those kids should have ever been in his bed.  He was 100% guilty

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 11:02 am

Where there's smoke there's fire and this was a billowing conflagration!

No amount of talent justifies pedophilia.

Shame on those parents who settled out of court for money.  I'm sure they surrounded him for some kind of free ride anyway, but it was like they offered up their children for monetary gains and left him free of legal action so he might continue to prey on other children. 

Disgusting.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Philip Eno on 01/12/14 at 11:34 am

Undecided, and unproven.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:41 am


Where there's smoke there's fire and this was a billowing conflagration!

No amount of talent justifies pedophilia.

Shame on those parents who settled out of court for money.  I'm sure they surrounded him for some kind of free ride anyway, but it was like they offered up their children for monetary gains and left him free of legal action so he might continue to prey on other children. 

Disgusting.



And I am certain there were some kids who were never touched who saw a free ride to college or a new car. Or a down payment on the house.... But that doesn't negate the fact that there were some kids who were victimized.  One kid is one kid too many.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Angelheart93 on 01/12/14 at 12:07 pm

Seriously? I come to this site when I wake up in the morning and see THIS poll, on a subject that has been SQUASHED since, like, 2005? Michael was NOT a pedophile. I cannot believe what the media has done! They have succeeded in framing an innocent man in the minds of people who have not taken any time to do research, but instead depend on their own prejudice and choose to ignore FACT. If you choose to ignore all the things that point to his innocence, rather than the very few things that would indicate any kind of "guilt", then I feel sorry for you, I really do. I didn't know if he was innocent when he was first accused, but I have taken the time to do research on the matter and not just condemn someone. That is how my parents raised me, to never be judgmental and never be prejudiced. They also raised me to think critically. The main reason, I bet, why people think him guilty, is because they have not been educated of the HUGE effort the media took in order to stain Michael Jackson's good name ,OR to all of the facts to the cases. If you have not read the information on how MJ was framed, how evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual), if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything. If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11. The freaking FBI was investigating him since 1993 and found NOTHING on his computers, under his mattresses, in his library, no secret dungeon rooms, no inappropriate things at Neverland or any other of his residencies. You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI. Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors") If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense. Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories. READ the court transcripts, it is all public information. Michael Jackson was FORCED by his insurance company to "pay off " the Chandlers in 1993, when he actually wanted to fight in court for his innocence (proof here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/its-not-up-to-michael-jacksons-fans-to-prove-that-he-was-innocent-its-up-to-michael-jacksons-haters-to-prove-that-he-was-guilty/ AND here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/mjagreement/). The Chandlers brought Michael Jackson into a CIVIL case before a CRIMINAL one, not seeking justice against the "perpetrator", but seeking MONEY first. There is evidence that Jordan Chandler admitted that he lied that MJ molested him. He said in the court papers, he refused to testify because "he did his part". Once the Chandlers got their money, they split. Michael Jackson's FBI files are public info: http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/ <---THOSE are the actual files, not something conjured by a tabloid website. It's a shame how the media can manipulate the public like that. They know you won't take time from your busy life to do any research on someone, because it doesn't concern you, so it's easy to accuse someone or make them guilty in the public's eye. This is just a smidgeon of evidence that I have written, because there is too much in support of his innocence. In the real world, whether someone is innocent or guilty doesn't matter, once the news has attached your name to a situation, you will immediately either think well or ill of the person. It's very sad that we all are so dependent on the news alone.

If anyone else is just curious as to MJ could be innocent, can have an open and prejudiced mind, please do your research. The media doesn't always print truth. I am not saying this because I am an MJ fan. If I had ANY indication that MJ was guilty, his songs would be deleted, and I would no longer support him or even be a fan for that matter. I couldn't support something like that.

EVEN MORE evidence: http://itsinournature.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/mjfam-a-short-summary-on-michael-jacksons-innocence/

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 1:14 pm

Let me put it this way, if Snoz says so, I believe the person is guilty. So I choose guilty.  ;)

I'll admit though, I love Mike's music, but the guy had an ego the size of the Milky way galaxy! When people don't tell you no, you keep going!

I was never a huge Mike fan, but I have 2 albums of him. I never went to his concerts and have very little interest in his personal life.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 01/12/14 at 1:15 pm

Just because someone was acquitted doesn't mean they are not guilty. (Look at George Zimmerman.)


I have always like his music-first as part of the Jackson 5 and then with his solo career. I, too used to watch the cartoon back in the '70s. He also had a lot of great hits like Billie Jean, Beat It, & Thriller but that has nothing to do with his actions.


It really makes me angry because he was famous and had boocoo $$$$$$$$$$ that he could pay his way out of it. Like many have already said, the man was sick and needed a lot of help. But instead of getting the help he desperately needed, he had a group of people who enabled him which lead to his death. The same thing could be said about Anna Nicole and even Elvis. I think if he was convicted, it could have saved his life. If he was locked up, maybe he could have gotten the help he really needed.


Instead of focusing on MJ not getting the help he needed, we really should be focusing on the help his victims need. They are going to have problems ALL OF THEIR LIVES!!!! Being molested leaves a lasting scar that never goes away. I know because I was molested at the age of 13. And the guy got away with it because I was not brave enough to tell ANYONE that I was molested even though my mother suspected. 


Cat

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 1:24 pm

They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: BigMJJFan on 01/12/14 at 1:26 pm

Michael Jackson is innocent!
You cannot prove any of the aquittels.
Alot of people are out to make money.

Just think of the case against Mike Tyson, a huge boxing star, who is a convicted rapist and got about 6 years in prison I think. he broke the law and was punished for it.

Michael Jackson did nothing wrong and was therefore not punished.

Wealth and fame has little to do with it. Michael is innocent and I am so angry that his innocence is still in question. After everything he has done for the world and the children of the world.
He truly did not have it in him to hurt a single person on this earth, and I firmly believe he is innocent. there is no one in this world who could even shake that belief.

so make as many of these forums or polls as you wish, you will not shake the believers.
All you do is set out to cause a stir and get some attention, so congratulations, you achieved a little goal, but that is all you will ever achieve.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 1:33 pm

Michael had 2 times where he was accused, 1993. Then 2003. The trial in lasted until 2005.

I feel sorry for him though, he needed a friend. A REAL friend, not a celebrity brown-noser!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: warped on 01/12/14 at 1:46 pm


I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.



Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 1:50 pm


Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....


Really? I'm mean? That's a laugh man. Ok.  ;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 2:04 pm


They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.
his behavior, and the fact he died of his own hand immediately tells me he will not be in heaven anytime soon!  And he did not believe in heaven!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tam on 01/12/14 at 2:06 pm



Alright it's late and I'm tired and I'm curious where current members stand... you do not have to tell your vote if you don't want but I would be curious to know how old you were in 2005.



I was 34 in 2005.


My vote is Undecided.


I say that because, although acquitted of all charges - something went down in order for there to be an investigation. Not once, but twice.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 2:13 pm


He can keep YOU company once you arrive.  ;)
that is fine, I am sure my penance will be much shorter!  I have no desire in harming anyone, or threatening others.  I believe in my Lord Jesus Christ, and he died for my sins!  I know I am a sinner!  But I also know with all of my heart, I will not harm anyone, NORE will I kill myself of my own accord! 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tam on 01/12/14 at 2:19 pm


Seriously? I come to this site when I wake up in the morning and see THIS poll, on a subject that has been SQUASHED since, like, 2005? Michael was NOT a pedophile. I cannot believe what the media has done! They have succeeded in framing an innocent man in the minds of people who have not taken any time to do research, but instead depend on their own prejudice and choose to ignore FACT. If you choose to ignore all the things that point to his innocence, rather than the very few things that would indicate any kind of "guilt", then I feel sorry for you, I really do.



Hmm... just like all of the other members who come here to post daily and find more rantings about MJ by his 'SuperFans' and apollonia recruiting more of her friends to the board to try and overrun the place with MJ crap? Now you know how the rest of us feel...


I didn't know if he was innocent when he was first accused, but I have taken the time to do research on the matter and not just condemn someone. That is how my parents raised me, to never be judgmental and never be prejudiced.


And here is where your hypocritical rant starts.
I can actually say that after reading this statement, and then the rest of your rant - there isn't a single bit in your quote boxes below that aren't judgmental and prejudiced.


They also raised me to think critically. The main reason, I bet, why people think him guilty, is because they have not been educated of the HUGE effort the media took in order to stain Michael Jackson's good name ,OR to all of the facts to the cases. If you have not read the information on how MJ was framed, how evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual), if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything. If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11. The freaking FBI was investigating him since 1993 and found NOTHING on his computers, under his mattresses, in his library, no secret dungeon rooms, no inappropriate things at Neverland or any other of his residencies. You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI. Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors") If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense. Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories. READ the court transcripts, it is all public information. Michael Jackson was FORCED by his insurance company to "pay off " the Chandlers in 1993, when he actually wanted to fight in court for his innocence (proof here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/its-not-up-to-michael-jacksons-fans-to-prove-that-he-was-innocent-its-up-to-michael-jacksons-haters-to-prove-that-he-was-guilty/ AND here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/mjagreement/). The Chandlers brought Michael Jackson into a CIVIL case before a CRIMINAL one, not seeking justice against the "perpetrator", but seeking MONEY first. There is evidence that Jordan Chandler admitted that he lied that MJ molested him. He said in the court papers, he refused to testify because "he did his part". Once the Chandlers got their money, they split. Michael Jackson's FBI files are public info: http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/ <---THOSE are the actual files, not something conjured by a tabloid website. It's a shame how the media can manipulate the public like that. They know you won't take time from your busy life to do any research on someone, because it doesn't concern you, so it's easy to accuse someone or make them guilty in the public's eye. This is just a smidgeon of evidence that I have written, because there is too much in support of his innocence. In the real world, whether someone is innocent or guilty doesn't matter, once the news has attached your name to a situation, you will immediately either think well or ill of the person. It's very sad that we all are so dependent on the news alone.


EVEN MORE evidence: http://itsinournature.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/mjfam-a-short-summary-on-michael-jacksons-innocence/



Yes, because the internet doesn't lie! ::)


Furthermore, your links of 'proof' come from wordpress - A BLOG.




Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Dagwood on 01/12/14 at 2:20 pm


Really? I'm mean? That's a laugh man. Ok.  ;D



Actually, yes, you are being mean.  Q didn't set this poll up to make you angry, it is an opinion poll.  You can post your opinion without being rude, which is what you are doing.  Maybe it is time for you to pull yourself off the pedestal you have put yourself on and realize that just because someone disagrees with you, it isn't to make you mad, it is that they disagree with you.  You see him the way you see him and we see him the way we see him and nothing will change it.  In fact, all the MJ love that spills out all over this damn board has made me so sick of him, I can't stand it.  I used to be able to listen to some of his stuff from the early 80's, but it all makes me sick to my stomach. 


And, Q has already explained why she can't come out with the info she knows.  Working in the legal field, there is stuff that can not be talked about if it is in a sealed record.  Your precious opinion is not worth her job. 


And, if you feel attacked (because I know that is what you are going to cry, that's what you always cry) tough stuff, baby.  You attacked one of my friends and I stand behind my friends. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 2:25 pm



Hmm... just like all of the other members who come here to post daily and find more rantings about MJ by his 'SuperFans' and apollonia recruiting more of her friends to the board to try and overrun the place with MJ crap? Now you know how the rest of us feel...



And here is where your hypocritical rant starts.
I can actually say that after reading this statement, and then the rest of your rant - there isn't a single bit in your quote boxes below that aren't judgmental and prejudiced.




Yes, because the internet doesn't lie! ::)


Furthermore, your links of 'proof' come from wordpress - A BLOG.





Tam!  I love you!  You have a brutal honesty, that I can so appreciate!  Even when I am at the receiving end of that brute!  Thank you!!! 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 2:26 pm

I'm over it. Have fun with it, I'm off to other parts of the forum that are more fun for me.  :) No harm no foul.
I can't change people's opinions, they can't change mine, so that's that.

Peace.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tam on 01/12/14 at 2:30 pm


I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.



This. I give you a prime example of the generation that believes they know it all, need to be heard and are entitled.
And it should be said that you have just offended me with your vocabulary. Your ignorance is unbecoming.

Michael is innocent. He didn't do anything and if anyone here cannot take it, then I'm sorry for you. You can say what you want, you won't change my mind. Just because you call him a pedophile and this and that, I'm supposed to suddenly change my mind after 18 years of being a fan HELL NO.My own mother couldn't change my mind, and guess what, I LOVED HER. So you can put up all the polls and posts and things you want, I'm a rock, I won't MOVE.



Just as - you can say what You want but you aren't going to change others' minds.
Just because you say he is innocent and this and that, we're supposed to change our minds after 20+ more years than you? NO.


And I didn't see anywhere in this thread where people said 'apollonia, you need to change your mind'. Seriously, everything isn't about you. If you can come here daily and post all you want about MJ, so can other people.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tam on 01/12/14 at 2:34 pm


... he needed a friend. A REAL friend, not a celebrity brown-noser!



Exactly.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 01/12/14 at 2:52 pm

Nice weather we are having, huh?


Cat

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/12/14 at 3:40 pm


My concern was the kids on the witness stand stating they were in his bed, but it was all innocent

There is no reason those kids should have ever been in his bed.  He was 100% guilty


I think at one time he had Emmanuel Lewis and Macaulay Culkin over at his house during the early 90's. ???

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/12/14 at 3:43 pm


his behavior, and the fact he died of his own hand immediately tells me he will not be in heaven anytime soon!  And he did not believe in heaven!


He believed in Jesus.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/12/14 at 3:46 pm

http://www.mugshots.net/michael_jackson/michael_jackson.jpg

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Dagwood on 01/12/14 at 4:02 pm


Nice weather we are having, huh?


Cat


Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 01/12/14 at 4:13 pm


Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D



We are having our January Thaw, too. A great relief from that Polar Vortex.



Cat

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 4:18 pm



And I am certain there were some kids who were never touched who saw a free ride to college or a new car. Or a down payment on the house.... But that doesn't negate the fact that there were some kids who were victimized.  One kid is one kid too many.


Absolutely!  He can't have been inappropriate with EVERY child.  There had to be some discretion.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 4:22 pm


They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.


Oh, his word again?  I still wouldn't believe it. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Dagwood on 01/12/14 at 4:32 pm



We are having our January Thaw, too. A great relief from that Polar Vortex.



Cat



I bet.  We didn't get anywhere near as cold as I am sure you did back east.  Brrrrr

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/12/14 at 5:03 pm


Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D


It was cold today.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 5:32 pm

soooo..... what'd I miss while i was gone?  ::)


nice to know people can a civil discussion about things that hold zero weight in the comings and goings of their everyday lives...

no one on these boards (including myself) was personally involved or affected in any real way by this case.  being a fan and caring is not the same thing as being involved and directly impacted but may or may not have happened...

I don't know why you all get so up in arms and over protective over something that really shouldn't mean squat to you because.... he is not you. he was not your brother, cousin, nephew, uncle father or son... he is nothing but a person who could sing and dance and entertained you... gave you some form of escape but really did nothing for you personally...

soooo why are you all so defensive?


btw... I would be happy if once.... just one.... one of you would say "I don't believe he molested, or touched, those boys in an inappropriate manner but I agree he was guilty of making poor judgement calls in how he chose to spend time alone with them."  Maybe just once one of you could admit that the sleep overs and having little boys in a grown man's bed who was a really bad idea....


It would be so refreshing.  People aren't perfect they make mistakes.


I get we are always going to disagree.... the point of this poll was never to convince you MJ believers to come to our side...it was to guage where as many members of the board stood.

the reason I asked for no one who signed up after 1/11 to vote is, I know there are a lot of fans out there, I didn't want you to go recruit more members to come here and attempt to commandeer these boards....  you have to admit it's hard to believe that 3 super MJ fans found this board on the exact same day....

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tia on 01/12/14 at 5:43 pm

Hey, courtesy of this very board i've had to confront the fact that Led Zeppelin, probably my favorite rock band of all time, pretty much stole every song they ever played. Never mind the whole weird spanking-hookers-with-fish thing. Being a fan of pop stars is no easy task sometimes. MJ fans are gonna have to just buck up and face it eventually.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 6:08 pm

Michael Jackson had admitted sharing his bed with children and at the time, he said that he saw nothing wrong with a 44-year-old man having such relationships.  He was quoted as saying "I give them hot milk, you know, we have cookies. It's very charming, it's very sweet, it's what the whole world should do"

Do people who support Michael Jackson, also support pedophilia?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:13 pm


Seriously?


yes...  I am serious....


Michael was NOT a pedophile.


that's your opinion... which you are completely entitled to.

evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual),


um... I get my facts from some main and reliable sources not the media...  but then again... where did you get your sources on the above statements... please don't quote those links you provided... I'm sorry just because it was written by some fan doesn't make it a reliable source. 

if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything.

I don't think I ever said he was a pedophile because he was weird. If that's how it was interpreted than I apologize for misleading you...  I think he was a pedophile because I believe what I believe....

I think he became weird because of mental deficiency.... self esteem issues and years of abuse by Joe making him feel he wasn't ever good enough.  I think he got all that work done because he wanted to escape the monster he saw when he looked in the mirror... unfortunately self fulfilling prophecies being what they are...his self perception caused him to create a face that many/most.... alot of us (especially those that witnessed the transformation before their eyes... saw as monstrous.  it's tragic really... he was good looking young man but hated himself so much he had become something other than what he saw when he looked at himself.  (im going on 24hrs without sleep so if that makes no sense figure it out)






If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11.


I'm not discussing porn... howard posts here... the thread will get off track if I do... you are to new to know this but others know what i'm talking about.... Hi Howard!  :)



You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI.


um FBI is made up of human beings... any number of whom who can be bought.. i'm not claiming they were.... by any means i'm not talking about the fbi at all... 

of you to include that link to the FBI files... but

some information has been redacted from all the files 
62 shows 13 pages have been deleted
95 shows 4 pages have been deleted
9  shows that 111 pages have been deleted
62 part 3 shows 123 pages have been deleted
62 part 2 shows that 95 pages have been deleted



so I'm not sure how you could've read everything... I mean obviously there are some huge chunks missing from what you believe to be true...



Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors")

Tom Sneddon was not a sherriff in SB County he was the DA... there's a difference...

and I take great offense to you calling the people I work with day in and out prejudiced and racist. you do not know them.. you only know what you've read which are opinions presented by people (fellow fans like yourself) who don't know them either... that was uncalled for and, unlike you and your opinion of MJ... the people you are talking about are my colleagues





If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense.


why do you keep talking about child porn? not all pedophiles have it.... that's like saying all criminals own a gun... many people who have committed crimes have never touched a gun a day in their lives.....


Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories.



at the end of the day michael had better attorneys.... I can concede that fact... that doesn't change the fact that I *emphasis on I* still believe... and always will believe he is guilty...


Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: AL-B Mk. III on 01/12/14 at 6:14 pm

I don't want to come off as being a dick or anything, but I fail to see the point of this thread.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:15 pm


Let me put it this way, if Snoz says so, I believe the person is guilty. So I choose guilty.  ;)

I'll admit though, I love Mike's music, but the guy had an ego the size of the Milky way galaxy! When people don't tell you no, you keep going!




smart man  lol


in all seriousness tho... I honestly believe the sadest part of the whole demise of MJ is there was never really anyone in his life giving him good advice... particularly in the end.. I'm not talking about Catherine.. I'm talking about his handlers... if he had a better manager, agent and assistants he might still be alive today...oh god please lets not talk about conrad...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:22 pm


Just because someone was acquitted doesn't mean they are not guilty. (Look at George Zimmerman.)


I have always like his music-first as part of the Jackson 5 and then with his solo career. I, too used to watch the cartoon back in the '70s. He also had a lot of great hits like Billie Jean, Beat It, & Thriller but that has nothing to do with his actions.


It really makes me angry because he was famous and had boocoo $$$$$$$$$$ that he could pay his way out of it. Like many have already said, the man was sick and needed a lot of help. But instead of getting the help he desperately needed, he had a group of people who enabled him which lead to his death. The same thing could be said about Anna Nicole and even Elvis. I think if he was convicted, it could have saved his life. If he was locked up, maybe he could have gotten the help he really needed.


Instead of focusing on MJ not getting the help he needed, we really should be focusing on the help his victims need. They are going to have problems ALL OF THEIR LIVES!!!! Being molested leaves a lasting scar that never goes away. I know because I was molested at the age of 13. And the guy got away with it because I was not brave enough to tell ANYONE that I was molested even though my mother suspected. 


Cat



Zimmerman is an excellent analogy Cat!  Karma when I come back through and do that... not doing it now... and no I will not be fudging anyone... I wanted to have a discusion I just wish people could discuss rather than rant...


Ben is still - even now- one of my favorite songs... that doesn't negate my beliefs in anyway.


I agree with the other stuff you said but I'm skipping it because I want to say i'm truly sorry that happened to you and that you had to live that secret because of your fears. It sucks.  Children's voices should be heard especially in times of their greatest needs.

I wasn't with those MJ kids any of them but I can imagine how excited their parents were... you know about their kids getting to meet him and all that...the kids probably didn't want to let them down...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:25 pm


They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.


they had jurors who felt like you...it's not like they could really find an impartial jury.... it's not like anyone didn't know who he was.... if they had me on the jury there would've been a mistrial....just sayin...    I wouldn't have been impartial either but I would've been pulling for the other side... it would've been 12 angry men the 05 edition lol

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 6:27 pm


I don't want to come off as being a dick or anything, but I fail to see the point of this thread.


I kind of see it as a way to end the discussion about Michael Jackson for good, but it only seems to be prolonging it lol

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: AL-B Mk. III on 01/12/14 at 6:30 pm


I kind of see it as a way to end the discussion about Michael Jackson for good, but it only seems to be prolonging it lol


It seems to me like this thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at a certain member, but then again, what the hell do I know.  ::)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 6:33 pm

I'm going to play's devil's advocate for a bit here.

Let's say you're a huge Michael Jackson fan, and you don't believe Snozberries about the hidden evidence and things. You have the right to believe Michael Jackson was innocent and you have the right to still like him.

I'm just saying this for those who do believe Michael was guilty. People don't know the whole story, so I can see why some people would think MJ is innocent. Also, not everyone is going to believe Snoz (although I do) because they don't know her, or they just plain don't have any evidence/proof to believe her.

I also think it's hard to 'let go' of a goody-goody image of an idol you've known for decades. Let's say you've been a MJ fan since 1969, when the Jackson five became popular, until 1993. It's going to be hard for some people to let go or detach the music from the man, I mean 1968/1969 to 1993 is 24/25 years, that's a long time!

Anyways, just another aspect!

-80sfan-

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:36 pm



You cannot prove any of the aquittels.







does acquittals mean something different in the UK than it does in the US... like Jumpers and bonnet and chips and some other words mean different things? ? ?


If it does then please explain... if it doesn't then you just said I can't prove that MJ was not convicted of the crimes with which he was charged.....


Just think of the case against Mike Tyson, a huge boxing star, who is a convicted rapist and got about 6 years in prison I think. he broke the law and was punished for it.

Michael Jackson did nothing wrong and was therefore not punished.



Cat gave you George Zimmerman... I have two other words for you... OJ Simpson.... 


He truly did not have it in him to hurt a single person on this earth, and I firmly believe he is innocent. there is no one in this world who could even shake that belief.



there are pedophiles out there...lots of them... who do not believe what they do is harmful... they truly believe what they feel is love and what they do is an expression of that love.... I hope you were able to see (and watched) the oprah clip I posted...it's not about MJ it's about the nature of pedophiles (some of them) and how they are able to nurture children into the abuse. 

I do not now nor do I ever believe he physically retrained, tortured or you know brutalized the children in a rageful act of pure terror I think he nurtured them, talked to them... what we call grooming... and then when they were at their most vulunerable point that's when he engaged in sexual behavior with them



so make as many of these forums or polls as you wish, you will not shake the believers.
All you do is set out to cause a stir and get some attention, so congratulations, you achieved a little goal, but that is all you will ever achieve.


please show me where I have ever said you have to believe what I do...

please show me where I have said you need to believe what I do...

all I have done is stated my opinion and questioned this blind loyalty and your compilation of so called facts

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 6:40 pm


It seems to me like this thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at a certain member, but then again, what the hell do I know.  ::)


Snoz made this thread because I posted in the MJ dead celeb forum, and asked somebody, if there was any proof that Michael was a pedophile.

At least I think that's why this thread was created.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:44 pm


Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....


thanks warped... I got this



FROM APOLLONIA:
I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.





Tif I'm not sure why you get so upset and take this so personally. I know what you believe. I don't agree but, for like the 27th time, I'm not trying to change your opinion... but I was curious where the members of this message board stand in the debate... and it's a discussion...it's really shouldn't affect you this viscerally... 


By the same token you don't know me personally. In fact you've never really taken the time to know me. I have tried to start conversations with you but they always fall flat or you find some way to bring MJ into it.  The thing that strikes me most is you have never really taken time to retain any information about me (other than my personal feelings about MJ) but you want everyone to take an interest in you. That's fine. I'm more secure in who I am in this world I get that... but you better believe I didn't start this thread because of you...it's not a personal attack about you. It was an honest attempt to gauge the climate about a hot button issue.  if you aren't mature enough to handle the discussion perhaps you should let the adults keep talking while you go sulk in the corner...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 6:49 pm




does acquittals mean something different in the UK than it does in the US... like Jumpers and bonnet and chips and some other words mean different things? ? ?


If it does then please explain... if it doesn't then you just said I can't prove that MJ was not convicted of the crimes with which he was charged.....



Cat gave you George Zimmerman... I have two other words for you... OJ Simpson.... 


Wealth and fame has little to do with it. Michael is innocent and I am so angry that his innocence is still in question. After everything he has done for the world and the children of the world.
there are pedophiles out there...lots of them... who do not believe what they do is harmful... they truly believe what they feel is love and what they do is an expression of that love.... I hope you were able to see (and watched) the oprah clip I posted...it's not about MJ it's about the nature of pedophiles (some of them) and how they are able to nurture children into the abuse. 

I do not now nor do I ever believe he physically retrained, tortured or you know brutalized the children in a rageful act of pure terror I think he nurtured them, talked to them... what we call grooming... and then when they were at their most vulunerable point that's when he engaged in sexual behavior with them



please show me where I have ever said you have to believe what I do...

please show me where I have said you need to believe what I do...

all I have done is stated my opinion and questioned this blind loyalty and your compilation of so called facts


Is this sarcasm? Are you talking about Mike Tyson helping kids or Michael Jackson?  ;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:49 pm



I was 34 in 2005.


My vote is Undecided.


I say that because, although acquitted of all charges - something went down in order for there to be an investigation. Not once, but twice.


that's fair...at least it's unbiased

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 6:52 pm


thanks warped... I got this


I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.


Tif I'm not sure why you get so upset and take this so personally. I know what you believe. I don't agree but, for like the 27th time, I'm not trying to change your opinion... but I was curious where the members of this message board stand in the debate... and it's a discussion...it's really shouldn't affect you this viscerally... 


By the same token you don't know me personally. In fact you've never really taken the time to know me. I have tried to start conversations with you but they always fall flat or you find some way to bring MJ into it.  The thing that strikes me most is you have never really taken time to retain any information about me (other than my personal feelings about MJ) but you want everyone to take an interest in you. That's fine. I'm more secure in who I am in this world I get that... but you better believe I didn't start this thread because of you...it's not a personal attack about you. It was an honest attempt to gauge the climate about a hot button issue.  if you aren't mature enough to handle the discussion perhaps you should let the adults keep talking while you go sulk in the corner...


Alright fine. Cause I'm tired of arguing and having migraines. I was angry and caught in the moment when I wrote that post.
Let's start over Fresh then. And we can get to know each other, for real,  and get past the glitter hump.
Hello. My name is Tiffeny. I'm from Texas and I'm 27 years old. Nice to meet you. Let's be friends. Or at least cordial.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Tam on 01/12/14 at 6:56 pm


Is this sarcasm? Are you talking about Mike Tyson helping kids or Michael Jackson?  ;D



She needs to fix her quote box lol ;)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 6:58 pm



She needs to fix her quote box lol ;)


;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 6:59 pm


Hey, courtesy of this very board i've had to confront the fact that Led Zeppelin, probably my favorite rock band of all time, pretty much stole every song they ever played. Never mind the whole weird spanking-hookers-with-fish thing. Being a fan of pop stars is no easy task sometimes. MJ fans are gonna have to just buck up and face it eventually.


I have no idea what that means but thanks for contributing lol


did they really?  (you decide which point I'm seeking clarification on.... :D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:04 pm


Michael Jackson had admitted sharing his bed with children and at the time, he said that he saw nothing wrong with a 44-year-old man having such relationships.  He was quoted as saying "I give them hot milk, you know, we have cookies. It's very charming, it's very sweet, it's what the whole world should do"

Do people who support Michael Jackson, also support pedophilia?



this...the sharing the bed thing... I really wanna know where the uber fans stand on that... and wonder... just how trusting they really are... it doesn't work if none of them are actually parents...  because I wonder if they would let MJ take their kids... if they had them... unchaperoned for a week---- but they themselves could never meet MJ.  It's easy to speculate but until there were real kids and a real possibility  of that happening I don't really think I'd get an honest answer.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:08 pm


I don't want to come off as being a dick or anything, but I fail to see the point of this thread.



no prob Al... you may have missed it. I have made reference to it a couple of times...  we have had an influx of MJ fans join the boards... which is cool more members mean activity...but the amount of MJ love oozing thru the 00ze is rather convenient and timely... one of the newest ones made a statement in another thread professing his innocence...even tho no one was having that discussion at that particular moment...and I was curious what people really thought...


and.... I worked grave yards last night... it was slow after  3/4am and I got bored.  :D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:12 pm


It seems to me like this thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at a certain member, but then again, what the hell do I know.  ::)


not my intention...if it was taken that way then so be it... maybe it was cheap shot at a new member but not the existing one you were thinking of...

you could consider her collateral damage...



they could take revenge and call Joss Whedon a hack...it would be blashphemy but I would stand by their right to have their opinion....  no matter how wrong they are... just like I believe they have a right to their opinion here... but I have mine... It's really just a discussion...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:14 pm


I'm going to play's devil's advocate for a bit here.

Let's say you're a huge Michael Jackson fan, and you don't believe Snozberries about the hidden evidence and things. You have the right to believe Michael Jackson was innocent and you have the right to still like him.

I'm just saying this for those who do believe Michael was guilty. People don't know the whole story, so I can see why some people would think MJ is innocent. Also, not everyone is going to believe Snoz (although I do) because they don't know her, or they just plain don't have any evidence/proof to believe her.

I also think it's hard to 'let go' of a goody-goody image of an idol you've known for decades. Let's say you've been a MJ fan since 1969, when the Jackson five became popular, until 1993. It's going to be hard for some people to let go or detach the music from the man, I mean 1968/1969 to 1993 is 24/25 years, that's a long time!

Anyways, just another aspect!

-80sfan-



that was very eloquently stated...and when all is said and done that's really the point of the thread. two opposing thoughts can exist in one place...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 7:19 pm

Michael Jackson really was a Thriller. But he could also be Bad or Dangerous.

It was History in the making, this thread is. It's really Off the wall.

Too bad Michael thought he was Invincible. Then there wouldn't be any Blood on the Dancefloor.

You see? You see what just happened? I put Mike's albums in the sentences, and made a word game out of it all.  :)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:23 pm


Is this sarcasm? Are you talking about Mike Tyson helping kids or Michael Jackson?  ;D



lol... thanks for catching that.... it was a left over quote that I forgot to put in quotes or delete...



I have since fixed it... 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:24 pm



She needs to fix her quote box lol ;)


fixt  :D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 7:25 pm


Michael Jackson really was a Thriller. But he could also be Bad or Dangerous.

It was History in the making, this thread is. It's really Off the wall.

Too bad Michael thought he was Invincible. Then there wouldn't be any Blood on the Dancefloor.

You see? You see what just happened? I put Mike's albums in the sentences, and made a word game out of it all.  :)


I like changing his lyrics instead ...

"Billie Jean is not my lover.  He's just a kid who claimed that I touched his bum"

:D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:28 pm


Michael Jackson really was a Thriller. But he could also be Bad or Dangerous.

It was History in the making, this thread is. It's really Off the wall.

Too bad Michael thought he was Invincible. Then there wouldn't be any Blood on the Dancefloor.

You see? You see what just happened? I put Mike's albums in the sentences, and made a word game out of it all.  :)


Good one.. O0

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 7:43 pm


Alright fine. Cause I'm tired of arguing and having migraines. I was angry and caught in the moment when I wrote that post.
Let's start over Fresh then. And we can get to know each other, for real,  and get past the glitter hump.
Hello. My name is Tiffeny. I'm from Texas and I'm 27 years old. Nice to meet you. Let's be friends. Or at least cordial.


that would be nice...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 7:55 pm



this...the sharing the bed thing... I really wanna know where the uber fans stand on that... and wonder... just how trusting they really are... it doesn't work if none of them are actually parents...  because I wonder if they would let MJ take their kids... if they had them... unchaperoned for a week---- but they themselves could never meet MJ.  It's easy to speculate but until there were real kids and a real possibility  of that happening I don't really think I'd get an honest answer.


I brought this very thing up to Tiffeny and she blew the whole question off and told me to have a blessed day.  (Which must be some kind of holy code for go f yourself).

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 8:04 pm


I brought this very thing up to Tiffeny and she blew the whole question off and told me to have a blessed day.  (Which must be some kind of holy code for go f yourself).


No, because no matter what I say, you won't change your mind, so what's the point?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/12/14 at 8:06 pm


I like changing his lyrics instead ...

"Billie Jean is not my lover.  He's just a kid who claimed that I touched his bum"

:D


Wouldn't it be Billy Jean?  :-X

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Dagwood on 01/12/14 at 8:17 pm


No, because no matter what I say, you won't change your mind, so what's the point?


The point isn't to change your mind, the point is to see how you feel about the question. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 8:26 pm


No, because no matter what I say, you won't change your mind, so what's the point?


The point of debate is not to change a person's mind.  It's a discussion of the way each person sees things. It gives you a glimpse into how someone came to have their opinion.  You get to walk away from a debate and still have your opinion, you know?!

The fact that I both have to explain that to you, AND that I asked a valid question to which you have no answer, lead me to believe you don't have all the tools you need to make good decisions, therefore, you're not a trustworthy source for information.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 8:40 pm


The point of debate is not to change a person's mind.  It's a discussion of the way each person sees things. It gives you a glimpse into how someone came to have their opinion.  You get to walk away from a debate and still have your opinion, you know?!

The fact that I both have to explain that to you, AND that I asked a valid question to which you have no answer, lead me to believe you don't have all the tools you need to make good decisions, therefore, you're not a trustworthy source for information.


Alright you want an answer from me, here it is:

If you are referring to the child sleeping with MJ, then yes, I would allow my child to go with him. (*waits for fireworks and bad mother cries*) I don't fear Michael. I never feared Michael. Remember I was a child in 1995, with people telling me he hurt children. I was a child who had a mother who didn't HAVE to give me anything I asked for. I asked for an MJ tape, she didn't HAVE to give it to me. I wouldn't have died without it like food or water. As a child I would have gotten into bed with him. Nothing sexual. But like what he said. Watch movies, watch TV, eat cookies, whatever So she had to think something was kosher to allow and enable my fanhood. I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid. And that's my feeling and my opinion. I'll get as much grief about this as I would if I put my child in a pageant or had her in cheerleading. But that's my opinion, I'm woman enough to express it. I know it'll be disagreed with, but I don't mind, I spoke my piece.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 8:56 pm


I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid


But would you let your child be in his bed with or without you around?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 9:07 pm


But would you let your child be in his bed with or without you around?


Both. I would not fear for Arden's safety with Michael Jackson. (I want to name my child Arden)
If I'm in the house and she goes "Mommy can I sleep in Mr. Michael's room?"  I would say "Okay, have fun."
If I was at MY HOUSE and she called and asked the same, I would say the same. I would not be worried.
I would not be scared. I would not say Arden or Harold (if it's a boy) would be raped or harmed.
I have been in bed with adults who weren't my parents. I was never touched, I was never harmed. I had baby sitters who were not blood relatives that I got into bed with as a child. My mother would be at work, my father would be at work. I would be with the sitter in my bed, doing exactly what MJ said he did. We'd watch cartoons, play Barbies, take snacks. I have never been molested or raped in my life.
My mother trusted these people with me. My father trusted these people with me.
I'm fine, I never dragged anyone into court kicking and screaming. And I got plenty of those "don't let a bad person touch your private parts" speeches in grade school.

So no, if Arden or Harold were in bed with Michael Jackson, I would not have a problem with it.
That's the bottom line.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 9:17 pm


So no, if Arden or Harold were in bed with Michael Jackson, I would not have a problem with it


The fact that you don't have a problem with it, makes me worry for your future children. 
Letting your child get into bed with an older man, is not an example of good parenting at all.  Whether you think it is innocent or not it still comes down to one thing:  kids should have no business being in a stranger's bed

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 9:19 pm


The fact that you don't have a problem with it, makes me worry for your future children. 
Letting your child get into bed with an older man, is not an example of good parenting at all.  Whether you think it is innocent or not it still comes down to one thing:  kids should have no business being in a stranger's bed


And we're off to the races, let the bad mother and crazy woman comments commence.
I was in the same circumstance, and my mother, who was a great loving, wonderful mother in my eyes, let me be with people. I'm fine. So in the same circumstance, I'd be exactly the same with a person I TRUSTED. Whether my child is in bed with Michael, how is he a stranger if he's a friend and I'd let my child go with my friend? I'd let my child sleep in bed with my friends Stacie, or Ebonie, or Gerald. I wouldn't be scared. My friend Stacie HAS a son who's almost two. I asked her point blank, would you let your son be with Michael? She said yes. She didn't even hesistate. We'd trust Michael, and we'd be his friend. I wouldn't just find a person on the street and throw my baby at them. I would trust a person who was a friend.

And now I'm off to see American Hustle with Evan, because he's tired of me a hogging his tablet. LOL.He's a tolerant man, bless him. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 9:22 pm


Alright you want an answer from me, here it is:

If you are referring to the child sleeping with MJ, then yes, I would allow my child to go with him. (*waits for fireworks and bad mother cries*) I don't fear Michael. I never feared Michael. Remember I was a child in 1995, with people telling me he hurt children. I was a child who had a mother who didn't HAVE to give me anything I asked for. I asked for an MJ tape, she didn't HAVE to give it to me. I wouldn't have died without it like food or water. As a child I would have gotten into bed with him. Nothing sexual. But like what he said. Watch movies, watch TV, eat cookies, whatever So she had to think something was kosher to allow and enable my fanhood. I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid. And that's my feeling and my opinion. I'll get as much grief about this as I would if I put my child in a pageant or had her in cheerleading. But that's my opinion, I'm woman enough to express it. I know it'll be disagreed with, but I don't mind, I spoke my piece.


This is what I take from your statement: 

1)  Your mother said it was ok, so it must be ok because she wouldn't steer you wrong.
I can understand this argument from a child's point of view only; not an adult's.

2)  "If I was around, fine", means you'd need to be there to supervise.  This let's me know that there's some sense in your head!  Please don't ever send your children to have slumber parties with grown men, even if they are famous!

Listen, I'm certain ALL the kids who got into MJ's bed were there for the movie and the cookies, I'm even sure that's all some of them ever got, however, there were others (more than 1), who say he was "not kosher" and instead of going broke defending himself, he gave them money to make it go away (as if something like that ever does)!

This is what gets my goat; that you think you have to defend his questionable/bad behaviors, even in the face of good sense, to make it known that you are a superfan.  You have to know that even if MJ's intentions WERE pure, it's not "Kosher" to have slumber parties with children.  That the thought of it should make you shake your damned head and go "What the hell was he thinking"?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 9:31 pm


This is what I take from your statement: 

1)  Your mother said it was ok, so it must be ok because she wouldn't steer you wrong.
I can understand this argument from a child's point of view only; not an adult's.

2)  "If I was around, fine", means you'd need to be there to supervise.  This let's me know that there's some sense in your head!  Please don't ever send your children to have slumber parties with grown men, even if they are famous!

Listen, I'm certain ALL the kids who got into MJ's bed were there for the movie and the cookies, I'm even sure that's all some of them ever got, however, there were others (more than 1), who say he was "not kosher" and instead of going broke defending himself, he gave them money to make it go away (as if something like that ever does)!

This is what gets my goat; that you think you have to defend his questionable/bad behaviors, even in the face of good sense, to make it known that you are a superfan.  You have to know that even if MJ's intentions WERE pure, it's not "Kosher" to have slumber parties with children.  That the thought of it should make you shake your damned head and go "What the hell was he thinking"?


(Seven mins to showtime and 20 of coming features)
And my damned head doesn't go "What the hell". So be upset, my child would be free to sleep anywhere on the Ranch she wanted to. On the couch in the living room, under the kitchen table, in Michael's room, wherever. And my mother didn't steer me wrong. I respect my mother's opinion and CAN think for myself thank you very much. But I wouldn't be scared of Michael. Okay, what if I wasn't there? My child has a nightmare and won't sleep unless Michael is with her? He would be there for her.I know to other people who aren't fans like me, it doesn't make sense. To me and people like me, it does. I know we'll be differing, but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it, it's what I'd do. And I feel my child would be safe.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: whistledog on 01/12/14 at 9:40 pm


(Seven mins to showtime and 20 of coming features)
And my damned head doesn't go "What the hell". So be upset, my child would be free to sleep anywhere on the Ranch she wanted to. On the couch in the living room, under the kitchen table, in Michael's room, wherever. And my mother didn't steer me wrong. I respect my mother's opinion and CAN think for myself thank you very much. But I wouldn't be scared of Michael. Okay, what if I wasn't there? My child has a nightmare and won't sleep unless Michael is with her? He would be there for her.I know to other people who aren't fans like me, it doesn't make sense. To me and people like me, it does. I know we'll be differing, but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it, it's what I'd do. And I feel my child would be safe.


http://www.deadinsect.co.uk/uploaded_images/lucy-731415.jpg

I don't want to be in this conversation anymore

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 9:40 pm


(Seven mins to showtime and 20 of coming features)
And my damned head doesn't go "What the hell". So be upset, my child would be free to sleep anywhere on the Ranch she wanted to. On the couch in the living room, under the kitchen table, in Michael's room, wherever. And my mother didn't steer me wrong. I respect my mother's opinion and CAN think for myself thank you very much. But I wouldn't be scared of Michael. Okay, what if I wasn't there? My child has a nightmare and won't sleep unless Michael is with her? He would be there for her.I know to other people who aren't fans like me, it doesn't make sense. To me and people like me, it does. I know we'll be differing, but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it, it's what I'd do. And I feel my child would be safe.


Oh, I'm positive Arden would be safe, but what about Harold?  I wouldn't hold out a hope for little Harold! 

Have a blessed day!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 10:06 pm


No, because no matter what I say, you won't change your mind, so what's the point?
you do not understand a discussion do you????

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 10:17 pm


Alright you want an answer from me, here it is:

If you are referring to the child sleeping with MJ, then yes, I would allow my child to go with him. (*waits for fireworks and bad mother cries*) I don't fear Michael. I never feared Michael. Remember I was a child in 1995, with people telling me he hurt children. I was a child who had a mother who didn't HAVE to give me anything I asked for. I asked for an MJ tape, she didn't HAVE to give it to me. I wouldn't have died without it like food or water. As a child I would have gotten into bed with him. Nothing sexual. But like what he said. Watch movies, watch TV, eat cookies, whatever So she had to think something was kosher to allow and enable my fanhood. I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid. And that's my feeling and my opinion. I'll get as much grief about this as I would if I put my child in a pageant or had her in cheerleading. But that's my opinion, I'm woman enough to express it. I know it'll be disagreed with, but I don't mind, I spoke my piece.
You do not fear Michael?  Someone you do not personally know?  You only know the public side, what pr wants you to know?  You would let a child with him for uncertain amount of unsupervised time?  But you will not let your child trick or treat, ride a bike, or walk to school? 

I let my child do the last three things, but I won't let my child go with anyone whom I do not know better than the back of my hand!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 10:26 pm


You do not fear Michael?  Someone you do not personally know?  You only know the public side, what pr wants you to know?  You would let a child with him for uncertain amount of unsupervised time?  But you will not let your child trick or treat, ride a bike, or walk to school? 

I let my child do the last three things, but I won't let my child go with anyone whom I do not know better than the back of my hand!

Now see in an earlier post in this thread I said if he was my FRIEND, I wouldn't fear him. Friend, which means I sat in his company and got to know him. And as far as those other activities go, I do not know everyone in the houses if my kid went door to door ringing bells. So no my child still could not trick or treat. She can ride the damn bike, but I'd drive her to and from school just like I was until well into high school. I mean I don't know every single person in my town. I don't even know my next door neighbor. Michael is ONE GUY. And I could probably lay Michael out if I punched him myself anyway. One guy that I would make a point of meeting and getting to know. I wouldn't just drive to the gates of Neverland and toss my kid over the fence like a trashbag. I'd go in. Hi Michael, shake his hand, what's going on? How are you? Sit and talk with him. Get to know him, make friends. I'd let my child stay with a FRIEND.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 10:49 pm


Now see in an earlier post in this thread I said if he was my FRIEND, I wouldn't fear him. Friend, which means I sat in his company and got to know him. And as far as those other activities go, I do not know everyone in the houses if my kid went door to door ringing bells. So no my child still could not trick or treat. She can ride the damn bike, but I'd drive her to and from school just like I was until well into high school. I mean I don't know every single person in my town. I don't even know my next door neighbor. Michael is ONE GUY. And I could probably lay Michael out if I punched him myself anyway. One guy that I would make a point of meeting and getting to know. I wouldn't just drive to the gates of Neverland and toss my kid over the fence like a trashbag. I'd go in. Hi Michael, shake his hand, what's going on? How are you? Sit and talk with him. Get to know him, make friends. I'd let my child stay with a FRIEND.
I/we go with our children trick or treating, and we do know everyone at the houses they go to!  That is called responsible parenting. 

Sandusky had lots of friends as well, doesn't change the fact of what he did to their children! 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 10:54 pm


I/we go with our children trick or treating, and we do know everyone at the houses they go to!  That is called responsible parenting. 

Sandusky had lots of friends as well, doesn't change the fact of what he did to their children!


Sandusky's a perfect example!  Well respected man of the community.  No one sent their children to him to be molested but that's what he did for years!  Obviously there were hundreds of boys he did not molest but do you suppose they believe him innocent because it didn't happen to them?  Only 1 boy came forward and his silence could not be bought for any price and then the floodgates opened.  He maintains his innocence to this day but it's ridiculous in the face of so many accusers. 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 10:56 pm


Alright you want an answer from me, here it is:

If you are referring to the child sleeping with MJ, then yes, I would allow my child to go with him. (*waits for fireworks and bad mother cries*) I don't fear Michael. I never feared Michael. Remember I was a child in 1995, with people telling me he hurt children. I was a child who had a mother who didn't HAVE to give me anything I asked for. I asked for an MJ tape, she didn't HAVE to give it to me. I wouldn't have died without it like food or water. As a child I would have gotten into bed with him. Nothing sexual. But like what he said. Watch movies, watch TV, eat cookies, whatever So she had to think something was kosher to allow and enable my fanhood. I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid. And that's my feeling and my opinion. I'll get as much grief about this as I would if I put my child in a pageant or had her in cheerleading. But that's my opinion, I'm woman enough to express it. I know it'll be disagreed with, but I don't mind, I spoke my piece.
missed the reference to where you knew MJ as a friend??? 

Maybe this one
And we're off to the races, let the bad mother and crazy woman comments commence.
I was in the same circumstance, and my mother, who was a great loving, wonderful mother in my eyes, let me be with people. I'm fine. So in the same circumstance, I'd be exactly the same with a person I TRUSTED. Whether my child is in bed with Michael, how is he a stranger if he's a friend and I'd let my child go with my friend? I'd let my child sleep in bed with my friends Stacie, or Ebonie, or Gerald. I wouldn't be scared. My friend Stacie HAS a son who's almost two. I asked her point blank, would you let your son be with Michael? She said yes. She didn't even hesistate. We'd trust Michael, and we'd be his friend. I wouldn't just find a person on the street and throw my baby at them. I would trust a person who was a friend.

And now I'm off to see American Hustle with Evan, because he's tired of me a hogging his tablet. LOL.He's a tolerant man, bless him. 
no where was mj friends with all of the parents.  But I do see some that you make the point that he was your friend here. 

You do realize most pedophiles' first victims are those of who they know????

It is NEVER EVER a good idea to get into bed with any child!  No matter what you are doing!  Eat cookies at the kitchen table!  Watch tv on the couch, everyone slumbered in their own sleeping bag!  And children always get their own drinks, so no one can say you tampered with it! 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 10:57 pm


I/we go with our children trick or treating, and we do know everyone at the houses they go to!  That is called responsible parenting. 

Sandusky had lots of friends as well, doesn't change the fact of what he did to their children!


Well, if my child just had to go trick or treating I'd go with her. But like I said, I know NO ONE in my nieghborhood. I don't associate with my neighbors.

And who is Sandusky?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 11:01 pm


Sandusky's a perfect example!  Well respected man of the community.  No one sent their children to him to be molested but that's what he did for years!  Obviously there were hundreds of boys he did not molest but do you suppose they believe him innocent because it didn't happen to them?  Only 1 boy came forward and his silence could not be bought for any price and then the floodgates opened.  He maintains his innocence to this day but it's ridiculous in the face of so many accusers.
the testimony is so horrible to read!  It makes me absolutely cringe! 

And I wonder how many of those "deleted" parts of testimony in the mj case are similar, but in this instance testimony was removed due to families redacting their testimony due to pay offs!!!  I am sure much of that is what q refers to.  None of that can be released...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 11:08 pm


Well, if my child just had to go trick or treating I'd go with her. But like I said, I know NO ONE in my nieghborhood. I don't associate with my neighbors.

And who is Sandusky?


Google him, please.  Just to put my mind at ease that all child molesters aren't invisible to you.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 11:14 pm


Google him, please.  Just to put my mind at ease that all child molesters aren't invisible to you.

I know who he is, i just wanted to see what the hell you'd say. And yes, child molesters must have that magical invisibility shield for me not to see them.  ::) Really. I am well aware of what goes on in the world, I watch the news.

And here's a question, Michael's DEAD, so can't every one come dancing out and talk about him now? He's a corpse. It should be feeding time at the zoo now with folks willing to talk. *hand to ear* Hmm maybe I'm going deaf, I don't hear anything.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:17 pm


Alright you want an answer from me, here it is:

If you are referring to the child sleeping with MJ, then yes, I would allow my child to go with him. (*waits for fireworks and bad mother cries*) I don't fear Michael. I never feared Michael. Remember I was a child in 1995, with people telling me he hurt children. I was a child who had a mother who didn't HAVE to give me anything I asked for. I asked for an MJ tape, she didn't HAVE to give it to me. I wouldn't have died without it like food or water. As a child I would have gotten into bed with him. Nothing sexual. But like what he said. Watch movies, watch TV, eat cookies, whatever So she had to think something was kosher to allow and enable my fanhood. I would not feel bad letting my child be around him. I would trust him. If I was around, fine. If I left my child with his children to be friends with them, I would not be afraid. And that's my feeling and my opinion. I'll get as much grief about this as I would if I put my child in a pageant or had her in cheerleading. But that's my opinion, I'm woman enough to express it. I know it'll be disagreed with, but I don't mind, I spoke my piece.



the only thing I will say is it's easier to say these things because you don't have children...and he's dead so it's not really a even a possibility...  but if he were and you did have children and you were getting no direct access to him yourself (IE no perks...) then maybe... I don't know maybe you would contemplate the possibility  (not the probability) it's different when you are looking into your child's eyes.


that's just my theory...


and in my hypothetical scenario you wouldn't have been allowed to be around... neither would his kids.. it was a week away your child and him... no one else... but again it doesn't really matter... this one got out of hand.  that was not my intention when I posed the question.  and it was posed not just at you but all MJ fans on the board.  but again i don't think any of them are parents so  I don't know that the answer given is the honest answer.


however I cannot think of any good reason for any adult male or female to share a bed with a child that isn't theirs (no matter the gender)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 11:28 pm


I know who he is, i just wanted to see what the hell you'd say. And yes, child molesters must have that magical invisibility shield for me not to see them.  ::) Really. I am well aware of what goes on in the world, I watch the news.

And here's a question, Michael's DEAD, so can't every one come dancing out and talk about him now? He's a corpse. It should be feeding time at the zoo now with folks willing to talk. *hand to ear* Hmm maybe I'm going deaf, I don't hear anything.


I don't believe you know who Sandusky is.  Anyway, here's something for your good ear. 

This man recanted his testimony as a child and has come forward as a man.  Maybe others will follow, even when his estate is broke... 

http://www.eonline.com/news/419620/wade-robson-michael-jackson-was-a-pedophile-who-sexually-abused-me. 

I would also like to add that there are millions of abuse victims who never come forward.  If a tree does not fall in your forest, doesn't mean it didn't make a sound.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 11:32 pm



the only thing I will say is it's easier to say these things because you don't have children...and he's dead so it's not really a even a possibility...  but if he were and you did have children and you were getting no direct access to him yourself (IE no perks...) then maybe... I don't know maybe you would contemplate the possibility  (not the probability) it's different when you are looking into your child's eyes.


that's just my theory...


I asked my friend Stacie who has an 18 month old named Leon. She told me when I asked she would let him loose with Michael. She didn't hesitate. She is a mother with a child. And I know she loves her son more than life itself. And she would trust him with Michael. I also asked my friend Ebonie. She said NO. (Gasp, a friend of the Michael Jackson fan had a differing opinion!) She's still my friend, and I'm not ranting.
But okay Snoz, perhaps I may have a different view with a cooing baby in my arms, but I really doubt it. Cause I'm the one still trying to figure how to string up an MJ mobile for my child's crib anyway.

And I'm aware of Sandusky, I saw him on the news plenty.
And no one beleives Wade, that's a laugh. At least, no one I know.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:34 pm


And we're off to the races, let the bad mother and crazy woman comments commence.
I was in the same circumstance, and my mother, who was a great loving, wonderful mother in my eyes, let me be with people. I'm fine. So in the same circumstance, I'd be exactly the same with a person I TRUSTED. Whether my child is in bed with Michael, how is he a stranger if he's a friend and I'd let my child go with my friend? I'd let my child sleep in bed with my friends Stacie, or Ebonie, or Gerald. I wouldn't be scared. My friend Stacie HAS a son who's almost two. I asked her point blank, would you let your son be with Michael? She said yes. She didn't even hesistate. We'd trust Michael, and we'd be his friend. I wouldn't just find a person on the street and throw my baby at them. I would trust a person who was a friend.

And now I'm off to see American Hustle with Evan, because he's tired of me a hogging his tablet. LOL.He's a tolerant man, bless him.




Again... and this is just in my hypothetical scenario.. Michael is not your friend. you don't know him... you don't even get to meet him (as a fan that would've been a perk for you) so.... as the hypothetical parent in this hypothetical situation you do not get to know or meet or touch or see or hear or even write to MJ.    what you get to do is send your child off with a man who is famous but also accused of something not so nice.    I know you believe he is innocent but I think/hope in the instant you sent your kid out the door there would be a twinge of uncertainty.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 11:36 pm




Again... and this is just in my hypothetical scenario.. Michael is not your friend. you don't know him... you don't even get to meet him (as a fan that would've been a perk for you) so.... as the hypothetical parent in this hypothetical situation you do not get to know or meet or touch or see or hear or even write to MJ.    what you get to do is send your child off with a man who is famous but also accused of something not so nice.    I know you believe he is innocent but I think/hope in the instant you sent your kid out the door there would be a twinge of uncertainty.


That twinge would be gas from a soda I drank because I would NOT be worried. Sorry, no worries here.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 11:37 pm


I asked my friend Stacie who has an 18 month old named Leon. She told me when I asked she would let him loose with Michael. She didn't hesitate. She is a mother with a child. And I know she loves her son more than life itself. And she would trust him with Michael. I also asked my friend Ebonie. She said NO. (Gasp, a friend of the Michael Jackson fan had a differing opinion!) She's still my friend, and I'm not ranting.
But okay Snoz, perhaps I may have a different view with a cooing baby in my arms, but I really doubt it. Cause I'm the one still trying to figure how to string up an MJ mobile for my child's crib anyway.

And I'm aware of Sandusky, I saw him on the news plenty.
And no one beleives Wade, that's a laugh. At least, no one I know.


A confederacy of dunces; awesome!  No one you know believes him because for some reason, you need for this man to be innocent.  You'd trust him over good judgment and I find that horrifying. 

I notice you also only answer the posts that suit you!  Good luck with the mothering thing...

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:38 pm


(Seven mins to showtime and 20 of coming features)
And my damned head doesn't go "What the hell". So be upset, my child would be free to sleep anywhere on the Ranch she wanted to. On the couch in the living room, under the kitchen table, in Michael's room, wherever. And my mother didn't steer me wrong. I respect my mother's opinion and CAN think for myself thank you very much. But I wouldn't be scared of Michael. Okay, what if I wasn't there? My child has a nightmare and won't sleep unless Michael is with her? He would be there for her.I know to other people who aren't fans like me, it doesn't make sense. To me and people like me, it does. I know we'll be differing, but that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it, it's what I'd do. And I feel my child would be safe.



forget mJ... he's a bad example... what if you sent arden or harold to camp.... or to an away baseball game... how would you feel if you learned that the counselor or coach crawled into bed with them because they had a bad dream?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:41 pm


Now see in an earlier post in this thread I said if he was my FRIEND, I wouldn't fear him. Friend, which means I sat in his company and got to know him. And as far as those other activities go, I do not know everyone in the houses if my kid went door to door ringing bells. So no my child still could not trick or treat. She can ride the damn bike, but I'd drive her to and from school just like I was until well into high school. I mean I don't know every single person in my town. I don't even know my next door neighbor. Michael is ONE GUY. And I could probably lay Michael out if I punched him myself anyway. One guy that I would make a point of meeting and getting to know. I wouldn't just drive to the gates of Neverland and toss my kid over the fence like a trashbag. I'd go in. Hi Michael, shake his hand, what's going on? How are you? Sit and talk with him. Get to know him, make friends. I'd let my child stay with a FRIEND.



at the risk of repeating myself... in the parameters I set for the scenario you are not allowed to be friends with MJ..

in the case where you and MJ are not friends but he wants to spend time with your kid do you still let Harold go? 


(I ask it in this manner because I think some parents were excited by the attention and the being close to MJ as well) I am eliminating the chance of you having ANY contact with him.... does that make a difference in your decision?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/12/14 at 11:42 pm



forget mJ... he's a bad example... what if you sent arden or harold to camp.... or to an away baseball game... how would you feel if you learned that the counselor or coach crawled into bed with them because they had a bad dream?

I wouldn't send my child to camp, summer is pageant season. If I trusted the adult in charge I would not be upset. I've already stated I slept with non-realtive sitters as a child. My mom trusted them. Im talking in circles now. LOL. I would not be afraid. Hell, even if I met and got know YOU, you could be around my kid, but would probably be annoyed after a while as Arden would talk MJ.

Friends or not, I would trust Michael. Bottom line. Next question/scenario.
(Oooh, Tiffeny is a bad mother...whatever.)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/12/14 at 11:49 pm


anyway.... I will say this... just in general... just for information spreading.... people some times think the pedophile is the creepy dude in the park who likes to drag kids into the bushes and rape them... or the weenie wagger who wants to show his goods off to all the kiddies on the swings. 


more often than not the pedophile is a person who sets themself up in a position to be around kids.... to be around kids and be trusted by the parents... that's the friendly neighbor who wants to help lend a hand. or the coach of the soccer team or the art teach or the troop leader..... no not all people in these professions are bad people but enough of them are so that, even if you have even an inkling of doubt, you should probably trust your gut.... 


The nicer they are the more suspicious you should be... 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/12/14 at 11:56 pm


anyway.... I will say this... just in general... just for information spreading.... people some times think the pedophile is the creepy dude in the park who likes to drag kids into the bushes and rape them... or the weenie wagger who wants to show his goods off to all the kiddies on the swings. 


more often than not the pedophile is a person who sets themself up in a position to be around kids.... to be around kids and be trusted by the parents... that's the friendly neighbor who wants to help lend a hand. or the coach of the soccer team or the art teach or the troop leader..... no not all people in these professions are bad people but enough of them are so that, even if you have even an inkling of doubt, you should probably trust your gut.... 


The nicer they are the more suspicious you should be...
that was what I was saying!!! 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/12/14 at 11:57 pm


I wouldn't send my child to camp, summer is pageant season. If I trusted the adult in charge I would not be upset. I've already stated I slept with non-realtive sitters as a child. My mom trusted them. Im talking in circles now. LOL. I would not be afraid. Hell, even if I met and got know YOU, you could be around my kid, but would probably be annoyed after a while as Arden would talk MJ.

Friends or not, I would trust Michael. Bottom line. Next question/scenario.
(Oooh, Tiffeny is a bad mother...whatever.)


You DO know that kids are little people with their own identity, right?  That kids don't always want to do what you want them to, correct?  You can put a pretty dress on your daughter but she might not want to be a beauty queen.  I hope you also realize that you can make your kids repeat anything you'd like, but they're not your trick ponies.  "Arden" may tell you that she doesn't want to talk about Michael Jackson, that he freaks her out, that the moonwalk is stupid, or whatever. 

I think I've got as clear a picture on you as I've ever needed and I'm done with the conversation.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/13/14 at 12:01 am


You DO know that kids are little people with their own identity, right?  That kids don't always want to do what you want them to, correct?  You can put a pretty dress on your daughter but she might not want to be a beauty queen.  I hope you also realize that you can make your kids repeat anything you'd like, but they're not your trick ponies.  "Arden" may tell you that she doesn't want to talk about Michael Jackson, that he freaks her out, that the moonwalk is stupid, or whatever. 

I think I've got as clear a picture on you as I've ever needed and I'm done with the conversation.

Of course I know my child would have her own identity, Ladybug. If my child says no to pageants and wants to play in the mud, we'll play in the mud. And if she doesn't care for Michael Jackson, then I'll nurture her interests in something else my husband and I woudl approve of.
I'm sure you hate me now...oh well. You're not the first, and probably not the last to feel that way about me.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/13/14 at 12:13 am

I don't hate you, go ahead and like Michael Jackson, that doesn't bother me at all, I just think you lack good judgment and that irritates me. 

I know, I know, I'll have a blessed day....

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/13/14 at 12:18 am


I don't hate you, go ahead and like Michael Jackson, that doesn't bother me at all, I just think you lack good judgment and that irritates me. 

I know, I know, I'll have a blessed day....


Have a blessed day is not some code for F*ck you. If I wanted to say it, I'd just say it, but really "Fudge you" loses something in the censoring. When I first said that. I actually meant it, but trying to be nice and end on a positive note. I know I get hot about MJ, but I do have more to me, if you'd sweep the glitter away. I am a nice person. At least people keep telling me that, even the non-fans I know in real life.

I'm extending this to all. Come see the dark side of the moon--the part of Tiff without MJ attatched. You just might like her. I'm willing to make a fresh start with all. If you want to give me a chance, I'll accept it.
Please?


Yes I am a fan, but I have other interests, if someone would use my Ask Me Thread to ask about that. Thank you.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/13/14 at 12:40 am

I LOVE Michael Jackson's music. I wouldn't mind meeting him in person.

BUT if I was a father I wouldn't let my child near him, ESPECIALLY ALONE with him!

Even if Michael didn't touch any children, I just get a feeling in my gut that he has sexual attraction to boys under 15. Since if I were a father and sense his sexual attraction towards young boys, I wouldn't put my child boy or girl, near him, for two reasons.

1) I wouldn't put a child alone with someone I feel has pedophilic urges, whether they act on it or not.
2) I wouldn't want to tempt my childhood/adolescent idol, and put him in a situation where he would be more likely to commit a serious crime.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/13/14 at 1:11 am


that was what I was saying!!!



I know but sometimes when things are restated differently they get heard more receptively...sometimes not.. I just wanted to take a moment to say it because there are still people out their preaching stranger danger when stranger danger is the way less common than incidents by acquaintances

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/13/14 at 1:15 am


Have a blessed day is not some code for F*ck you.



can I just go off topic and thank you for not telling me to have a blessed day... not because I think it means FU but because of my personal aversion to prayer....  so, sincerely, thank you  ;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/13/14 at 1:16 am



new topic...


Ben is a love song about a rat... discuss.  :D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: apollonia1986 on 01/13/14 at 1:19 am



can I just go off topic and thank you for not telling me to have a blessed day... not because I think it means FU but because of my personal aversion to prayer....  so, sincerely, thank you  ;D


I actually do pay attention to what you say beleive it or not. And I do try to be sensitive to people's beliefs. I remember once before I did say that to you and you mentioned it, so I made a note of it.

And about Ben, when I was in choir, that was my personal warm up to keep my then-soprano voice in shape. I am now an alto.  :) I know the song was for a film sound track, but I have never seen the film.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/13/14 at 1:59 am


I actually do pay attention to what you say beleive it or not. And I do try to be sensitive to people's beliefs. I remember once before I did say that to you and you mentioned it, so I made a note of it.

And about Ben, when I was in choir, that was my personal warm up to keep my then-soprano voice in shape. I am now an alto.  :) I know the song was for a film sound track, but I have never seen the film.


Actually... if I remember the exchange correctly, you said you would pray for me... i asked you not to... that is my pat answer to that... actually... usually I say Please Don't  ;D



Did you see the first one? Willard? It's a film about rats... well it's a film about a man who is king of the rats... 

interesting sidenote....because I love discussing race in films....  in willard there are two "main rats" if you willl  Socrates is the nice good rat.....he is loyal to willard.  Ben is the bad rat...he sometimes goes rogue and does his own thing.......

Socrates is white and Ben is brown...... just sayin there is a message there but I don't know if people were aware of what they were being subjected too.... I'm sure I've a thesis to my dissertation in there somewhere if i ever really bothered to buckle down and go for masters etc 

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/13/14 at 7:09 am


Michael Jackson had admitted sharing his bed with children and at the time, he said that he saw nothing wrong with a 44-year-old man having such relationships.  He was quoted as saying "I give them hot milk, you know, we have cookies. It's very charming, it's very sweet, it's what the whole world should do"

Do people who support Michael Jackson, also support pedophilia?



So what wrong with giving a child cookies and milk?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/13/14 at 7:11 am


Michael Jackson really was a Thriller. But he could also be Bad or Dangerous.

It was History in the making, this thread is. It's really Off the wall.

Too bad Michael thought he was Invincible. Then there wouldn't be any Blood on the Dancefloor.

You see? You see what just happened? I put Mike's albums in the sentences, and made a word game out of it all.  :)


excellent.  :)

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/13/14 at 7:12 am


I like changing his lyrics instead ...

"Billie Jean is not my lover.  He's just a kid who claimed that I touched his bum"

:D


;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/13/14 at 7:15 am



new topic...


Ben is a love song about a rat... discuss.  :D


why would he love a rat?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 2kidsami on 01/13/14 at 7:46 am


Have a blessed day is not some code for F*ck you. If I wanted to say it, I'd just say it, but really "Fudge you" loses something in the censoring. When I first said that. I actually meant it, but trying to be nice and end on a positive note. I know I get hot about MJ, but I do have more to me, if you'd sweep the glitter away. I am a nice person. At least people keep telling me that, even the non-fans I know in real life.

I'm extending this to all. Come see the dark side of the moon--the part of Tiff without MJ attatched. You just might like her. I'm willing to make a fresh start with all. If you want to give me a chance, I'll accept it.
Please?


Yes I am a fan, but I have other interests, if someone would use my Ask Me Thread to ask about that. Thank you.
the ask me thread was originally a place to go to find information about something you did not know!  Not to find out about anyone!  I really hate plugs!  Have some respect and decency for yourself and try to stop selling!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Don Carlos on 01/13/14 at 9:52 am

What I'd like to know is why this thread was started in the first place.  Its been so long ago, and the guy is dead.  But I have an idea as to why, and I think its obvious.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: 80sfan on 01/13/14 at 10:48 am



So what wrong with giving a child cookies and milk?


Just don't have a minor (under 18) in your bed, and cuddle with him/her, while he/she is eating, or people will get the wrong idea!

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/13/14 at 11:53 am


What I'd like to know is why this thread was started in the first place.  Its been so long ago, and the guy is dead.  But I have an idea as to why, and I think its obvious.


Not that I have to explain myself to you and Perhaps you missed the multiple posts where this was addressed.

I presume you missed 3 rabid MJ fans joining the site in the same day and one immediately started posting about his innocence.  There was no, that I recall, question posed to them. One of the first posts they made was I'm an MJ fan and he is innocent. 

Tif and I hashed this out long ago so I did not post this aimed at her. I was genuinely curious where other people on the forum stood.  Tif got upset because she reactionary. But she also realizes, I think, that she knows I'm not trying to change her mind. It's obvious we will never agree on this. 

I'm not mad at her.  I'm not mad at anyone...except maybe angel something or other but that's another issue.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/13/14 at 7:29 pm


Just don't have a minor (under 18) in your bed, and cuddle with him/her, while he/she is eating, or people will get the wrong idea!



just imagine if he gave a minor alcohol and cookies.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: ladybug316 on 01/13/14 at 9:24 pm


What I'd like to know is why this thread was started in the first place.  Its been so long ago, and the guy is dead.  But I have an idea as to why, and I think its obvious.


If you know and it's obvious, why ask why?  ;D ;D

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: c_keenan2001@hotmail.com on 01/14/14 at 2:24 am

He was a lunatic but I don't think he harmed his children or anybody else's children.  His first accuser admitted that his father told him to lie.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/14/14 at 6:56 am


He was a lunatic but I don't think he harmed his children or anybody else's children.  His first accuser admitted that his father told him to lie.



and this is where he gave him "hush money" to promise to not say a word.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: warped on 01/14/14 at 7:16 am



In fact, all the MJ love that spills out all over this damn board has made me so sick of him, I can't stand it. 


This is exactly where I am, Dag.
HUGS

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Emman on 01/14/14 at 7:42 pm

I turned 20 in 2005, I am undecided but there was probably something wrong(grown man with kids in bed), I'm saying this as a HUGE Michael Jackson fan.

I really hope he was not guilty though(like an unfortunate faux pas). :-\\

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: c_keenan2001@hotmail.com on 01/14/14 at 8:39 pm

I'm so over it it's not even funny.  Why was this even news worthy in the first place? Was he a lunatic? Yes? Was he a pedophile? Maybe I don't know? I don't know if his family would know the truth about their son/brother even if it jumped up and bit em?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Howard on 01/15/14 at 7:09 am


I'm so over it it's not even funny.  Why was this even news worthy in the first place? Was he a lunatic? Yes? Was he a pedophile? Maybe I don't know? I don't know if his family would know the truth about their son/brother even if it jumped up and bit em?


I guess one of the kids squealed on Michael and told his parents about the situation.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/15/14 at 7:43 am


I turned 20 in 2005, I am undecided but there was probably something wrong(grown man with kids in bed), I'm saying this as a HUGE Michael Jackson fan.

I really hope he was not guilty though(like an unfortunate faux pas). :-\\


I appreciate your reply

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: snozberries on 01/15/14 at 7:44 am


I'm so over it it's not even funny.  Why was this even news worthy in the first place? Was he a lunatic? Yes? Was he a pedophile? Maybe I don't know? I don't know if his family would know the truth about their son/brother even if it jumped up and bit em?


It was news because Michael was a big star.  why was oj news? Or Robert Blake? Or Kobe?

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: c_keenan2001@hotmail.com on 01/15/14 at 8:17 am

I was sick of it only because it was Michael Jackson being accused of something else that he suppoedly had done 10 years earlier.  I was sick of it when I was 18, I was sick of it when I was 28, and I'm sick of it now.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: Inertia on 01/15/14 at 8:43 am

I am undecided as it is difficult to say for sure as I was not there. However, I tend to lean more toward guilty than not.

Subject: Re: POLL: MJ - Pedophile or Not?

Written By: theeccentrist on 01/29/14 at 11:29 pm

You know what? The man is dead, I don't care. All that's left is his music and that is good so who cares what he did in his personal life? He coulda killed people even and I'd still like his music, not that I'm a huge fan or anything because I'm not.

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