I think that tobacco cigarettes harm more people than does marijuana, so I don't see what the big deal is.

A student of mine did a reserch paper on this.  M.J. was legal for most of our history (G. Washington cultivated it).  It was criminalized due, he found (I didn't check his sources, but they sounded legit) due to the efforts of the booze industry.  Booze is hard to make, while pot is easy to grow.  So if intoxicating drugs are already available, why not this one, which is non-addictive (or no more so than booze) and certainly no more harmful than booze.  Coming of age in the '60s....

:DA lot of doctors find it useful for diseases like glaucoma and multiple sclerosis.That fact that it needs to be smoked,rather than eaten,is a concern,though,since people with MS might not be able to pick a burning cigarette up off the ground as quickly as someone who doesn't have it.Cheers!

Yes it should be legalized.  I think it would help reduce crime & make everyone more creative. ;)

Plus, just think of what it would do for the corn chip industry! ;D

A student of mine did a reserch paper on this.  M.J. was legal for most of our history (G. Washington cultivated it).  It was criminalized due, he found (I didn't check his sources, but they sounded legit) due to the efforts of the booze industry.  Booze is hard to make, while pot is easy to grow.  So if intoxicating drugs are already available, why not this one, which is non-addictive (or no more so than booze) and certainly no more harmful than booze.  Coming of age in the '60s....

Most marijuana was grown as hemp, which contains very little THC.  Hemp is an optimal resource for making paper, rope, textiles, and othe products.  I have heard about criminalization in part from lobbying by the liquor industry.  I'd have to check again.  I also know that William Randolph Hearst owned vast tracts of timber he wanted to harvest for paper pulp. Hemp was cheaper and better. There was also pressure broght to bear by the manufactures of new synthetic fibers who didn't want to have to compete with then-cheaper hemp.  In 1938 enter the liquor industry-funded film REEFER MADNESS.  The devil weed "marihuana," a product of the Negro jazz underworld will drive your children insane, and make black men lust after white women, and so on and so forth. 

Thirty years ago even conservatives thought marijuana would be legalized.  One of the biggest reasons it has not been leglized is it gives so law enforcement at all levels so much to do!  It's time to stop using marijuana prohibition as a make-work scam for the DEA and the police.  Marijuana is much less physically toxic, and much less social destructive drug than alcholol. 

I'm not one of those pot advocates who pretends marijuana is harmless.  It is not good for your physical health, it can create terrible dependency problems, and is quite the wrong drug for anyone with depression, anxiety, or motivational issues.  I've seen people close to me greatly hinder their lives with pot.  However, seven decades of prohibition have done nothing to curb its availability. 

Pot needs to be legalized, regulated, and taxed like alcohol.  Whether the minimum age to purchase should be 18 or 21 is another question.  Gotta get it legalized first. 

Marijuana offenders are clogging up our prison system, and thanks to the genius of mandatory minimums here in America, violent felons get early release to make room for the neighborhood pot dealer!

What's Mary Jane?

What's Mary Jane?


M a r i J u n a, g a n g a, s m o k e, p o t, w e e d, and dozens of other euphamisms.  Legalize it, but since I could grow it it would be hard to tax, just like my tomato plants.

Other

I don't really care if it's legalized or not. If I smoked weed I wouldn't pay taxes on it. I would still buy it from my friends for probably a lot less than the government would be selling it for. And i'm sure it would also be a lot better quality than the government would be selling.

Might as well legalize it. It being illegal makes it all the more tempting to use. That's just my opinion though.

It was criminalized due, he found (I didn't check his sources, but they sounded legit) due to the efforts of the booze industry.

Not exactly....

Marijuana should be legalized, and our overburdened courts and prisons relieved of the strain of the unreasonable laws that govern the naturally growing plant.

So why is marijuana illegal?

Prior to the turn of the 20th century very few people had ever heard the word marihuana (marijuana), a Mexican slang word for cannabis hemp. By 1920 a few states along the southern border had passed marijuana laws based solely on racial prejudice: "Mexican laborers and blacks that smoked this drug were disrespectful to whites, and were seducing white women with marihuana and their satanic music." Newspapers began printing articles about marihuana-crazed Negroes raping white women, and Mexicans as frenzied beasts under the influence of marihuana.
These stories became increasingly more violent and by the mid 1930’s nearly every state in the Union had passed marijuana laws. During this time, throughout America, there remained thousands of legal hashish parlors, and hemp continued to be grown –for fiber, seed, oil and medicine. Also, virtually no one in these industries (which included farmers, textile workers, bird seed producers, paint, varnish and machine-lubricating oil manufacturers, physicians, drug companies and so on) knew that this "killer weed from Mexico," marihuana, was in fact cannabis hemp.

By 1935 marijuana was proclaimed to be "the most violence causing drug known to man" by Harry J. Anslinger, director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (1931-1962), who demanded federal laws prohibiting marihuana.

The Marihuana Tax Stamp Act called for importers, manufacturers, sellers and distributors to register with the Secretary of the Treasury and pay an annual occupational tax and a transfer tax upon dealings in marihuana. Transfers were taxed at $1 an ounce for registered dealers (the current price of cannabis), and $100 an ounce for unregistered dealers. ("Any person who is convicted of a violation of any provision of this Act shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, in the discretion of the court.")

Testimony, before Congress, which led to the passing of this law, consisted almost entirely of the statements of Mr. Anslinger.

With these reports, from the director of the FBN, Congress ignored the protests of the AMA and various members of the hemp industry and passed The Marihuana Tax Stamp Act of 1937. Within a few years marijuana, as an intoxicant, cannabis, as a medicine, and hemp, as an industrial crop, had become illegal in America.

Not because of scientific or medical proof that marijuana was dangerous to an individual’s physical or mental health. (All available evidence ran contrary to this.)

Not because of statistics proving marijuana users were a menace to society. (FBI records of that period showed that 65 percent of all violent crimes were alcohol-related, as they are today.)

But marijuana -- and the entire hemp industry -- was prohibited because of lies fueled by racial prejudice, fear, and the secret incentives of Big Business. (Today DuPont remains the largest producer of synthetic fibers and finishes, while hemp hasn’t been legally grown in America since WWII).

In 1972, Richard Nixon’s National Commission on Marihuana Abuse concluded, “Marihuana does not lead to criminal, violent or aggressive behavior. The effects observed suggest that it may be more likely to neutralize aggressive and criminal acts. If its use is to be discouraged, it must be discouraged on grounds other than its role in the commission of criminal or violent acts.”

Meanwhile, on December 17th, 2001, President George W. Bush, along with the Attorney General and the directors of the ONDCP and DEA, issued a statement calling recreational drug users co-conspirators to the world of terrorism. Because "the traffic in drugs finances these groups to commit acts of murder."

The lie continues, 32 years later, to fill our prisons with non-violent cannabis users, 85% of whom are arrested for simple possession – while murderers, rapists, thieves and child abusers go free.

(Compiled with information / excerpts from Glenwood Smith, Hemp historian)

I think it should be legalized. There should be an age limit, like with alcohol and tabacco. I think the U.S. can learn from other countries who have legalized it, like the Netherlands, and see that it is not going to turn the country into one big "pot house".



Cat

And don't forget that Rick James sang about Mary Janes in his song in 1981. ;D



Howard

Mary Jane has been known to kill brain cells, if you believe the anti-drug adds.

Other

I don't really care if it's legalized or not. If I smoked weed I wouldn't pay taxes on it. I would still buy it from my friends for probably a lot less than the government would be selling it for. And i'm sure it would also be a lot better quality than the government would be selling.


That's true...I wouldn't wanna pay a lotta money for bad weed.  >:(

Mary Jane has been known to kill brain cells, if you believe the anti-drug adds.


So does alcohol, and that's legal. Booze also destroys livers and kidneys, causes prostrate and bladder problems and all manner of social problems. Nicotine causes cancer of the lungs and throat, creates blood clots that result in heart failure, stroke, gangrene and blindness. Yet these things are legal. The philosophy that suggests that marihuana use leads to the abuse of harder substances is misguided. I think that if the states can't bring themselves to legalise marihuana, they should consider decriminalising it. That way, they can still collect the revenue from fining people for use and possession without clogging up the courts and prisons with minor offenders.

Several years ago during election season, our local PBS station had debates with ALL candidates. Some of them were from parties I have never even heard of. We have one party called "the Grass Roots" party which advacates legalization of marijuana. The guy running for Lt. Governor really held his own. He did very well in that debate. The guy running for Congress on the hand was totally stoned out of his mind and it was VERY obvious. At one point he said, "Oh wow, I lost my train of thought". Even though it was very funny to watch (we were just laughing our @$$es off watching this guy), it really didn't much for the cause.  :-\\



Cat

Yes

Thank you for clarifying Don Carlos.  Nobody around here refers to it as Mary Jane, so I wasn't sure. :)

ISTM that all the arguments for keeping marijuana illegal are inaccurate and occasionally just plain absurd... my view is that the huge amounts of money to be made selling drugs is the biggest and most socially destructive incentive on the planet at the moment - rather than waste our money on the consequences of this rather futile chase after the drug pushers, make drugs like cannabis and ecstasy legal but licensed and taxed (rather like cigarettes or alcohol)... and make all addictive drugs available on prescription to registered addicts.

While there are millions, even billions to be made in drug-running, it doesn't matter how many pushers you lock up - there will be an inexhaustible supply of people willing to take their place for that kind of money.  So take the profit motive away - as soon as someone is hooked, prescribe the drugs for them so they won't be giving their money to the drug barons (and won't be stealing to get the money).  The drug market in the UK alone is currently worth hundreds of millions of pounds - the US must be in the billions.  That's a f*** of a lot of petty burglaries, muggings etc.

And if you disagree with me, please don't try the "it sends the wrong signal to our young people" line - like it could really be much worse than it is now?  As things are, illicit drugs are exciting things - our children get to see the pushers as rich and glamourous, with nice cars, loads of jewelry and a lifestyle to be envied... until the drug-runners get caught, but that doesn't happen where the kids can see, so has no cautionary effect.

Just another thought:

What about legalizing meth?  I personally don't see why the **** anybody would wanna put that crap in their body, but you think maybe legalizing it would lessen the chance of "home lab" accidents?

The big problem, for the booze industry and for the state, is that I can grow at lease a year's supply along with my tomatos in my back yard.  Since it is so easy to grow (God must like it, since it is) we could all get high for free.  No purchases, no taxes, just go harvest the stuff.  That's why the powers that be are opposed to it, along with those puritans who oppose just about any form of happiness.

Just another thought:

What about legalizing meth?  I personally don't see why the **** anybody would wanna put that crap in their body, but you think maybe legalizing it would lessen the chance of "home lab" accidents?
:o :o :oWell,mairjuana is a weed,and occurs naturally.Meth is a combination of chemicals like drain cleaner and cough medicine,mixed together,so it's not the same thing.Marijuana doesn't explode.Cheers! :)

I voted no..I guess I'd need more information on the subject--and not from some pothead that just thinks it's "cool". 
But from my standpoint, it's illegal for a reason.  Having never used it myself, I don't know what it does.  But it obviously poses some kind of danger for the rest of us FROM the people who are high on it.  :-\\

is a concern,though,since people with MS might not be able to pick a burning cigarette up off the ground as quickly as someone who doesn't have it.

Yeah, but I'm not so sure that someone who is high on marajuana is exactly moving their fastest, either.  ;D

But from my standpoint, it's illegal for a reason.  Having never used it myself, I don't know what it does.  But it obviously poses some kind of danger for the rest of us FROM the people who are high on it.  :-\\

There speaks someone who really doesn't know anything about it: the general consensus of opinion is that marijuana was made illegal on the back of a completely inaccurate scare campaign back in the 30s, the motive behind the campaign being more to do with the economics of hemp than usage of the drug.

People who are high on marijuana are a whole load less likely to be dangerous to you or society as a whole.  It saps the will to do anything (with the possible exception of eating) - there is no valid reason for keeping it illegal: any reason you care to suggest for continued illegality, I'll give you a better one in reply.

Yes, I think it should be made legal.  The effects of smoking weed are no more than that of drinking alcohol.  And if it were made legal, there would be less chances of weed being laced with other drugs, like PCP.

The effects of smoking weed are no more than that of drinking alcohol. 


Exactly.  I saw an anti-marijuana commercial about a kid who got killed in a wreck by a driver who was stoned.  That is sad, but more fatal accidents are caused by drinking and driving, so why don't we just make alcohol illegal too? Oh wait, that's right, we tried that already and it didn't work. 
If weed was to become legal, I think there should probably be some sort of "smoking and driving" law.  I know I wouldn't wanna be the one driving when I'm high.

Actually, there already are.  Everyone assumes that DUI/DWI means simply alcohol, which is not the case.  I found out from a personal friend who happens to be a police detective that it also ecompasses LEGAL prescription drugs (such as Xanax, Vicodin, etc.) when I was talking about a dental appointment (for a root canal) and mentioned that I had taken a Vicodin before I went.

Driving on Vicodin, NOT a good idea!
:o

I used to drive in states of fatigue, which is just as dangerous.  I'd have another 50 miles to go before home, and I'd be driving asleep with my eyes opened.  I got pulled over several times for erratic driving because I was exhausted.  I'm lucky I didn't hurt myself or anyone else!  I don't do that anymore!

I'm one of those odd people on whom drugs have the opposite effect.  Benadryl (which some docs recommend as a sleep aid) makes me hyper.  My kids are the same way...they have been on albuterol for asthmatic treatment and it puts them to sleep when most kids get hyperactive and jittery.
:o :oThat can happen sometimes.I think there's usually a warning that drugs like this can cause restlessness.Cheers!

Just another thought:

What about legalizing meth?  I personally don't see why the **** anybody would wanna put that crap in their body, but you think maybe legalizing it would lessen the chance of "home lab" accidents?
The a**hole in me thinks that we SHOULD legalize meth, but only under this circumstance: The goverment should build a huge factory far away from populated areas, where people who want to use crank can go to live, and then they can manufacture it and smoke all the meth they want until they die.  Call me a jerk, but I think that if you're enough of a flaming idiot to even TRY this stuff after seeing what it does to  people, then you get what you deserve. I mean hell, why not just snort some Drano???

(BTW, I voted for legalization of marijuana with certain restrictions. Use the money saved on needless law enforcement, plus the billions in tax revenue generated, to crack down on harder drugs, such as meth.
 
(Also, I think they should legalize mushrooms while they're at it! :) :) :))

Yes.  I love weed.  8)

 Call me a jerk, but I think that if you're enough of a flaming idiot to even TRY this stuff after seeing what it does to  people, then you get what you deserve. I mean hell, why not just snort some Drano???


I agree.  I don't know WHY anybody would want to put ether/lithium/whatever else kinda crap in their bodies.  Besides, I've seen people who are addicted to meth and they all look downright NASTY!!!  (again, needing a puke emoticon) 

To cheetara:  YAY!!!  :D

I say yes, but set limits...specifically, age limits, as there are with alcohol and tobacco.  Personally, I think alcohol is more harmful to people (the people that drink and get violent or decide to drive drunk effect more than just the person ingesting the substance). 

Yes.  I love weed.  8)
8) 8) ;D ;D ;DHave you ever heard the song "Mary Jane" by the Evs?Cheers!

it might as well be legal. Everyone and their grandmother does it nowadays, anyhow. LOL

The a**hole in me thinks that we SHOULD legalize meth, but only under this circumstance: The goverment should build a huge factory far away from populated areas, where people who want to use crank can go to live, and then they can manufacture it and smoke all the meth they want until they die.  Call me a jerk, but I think that if you're enough of a flaming idiot to even TRY this stuff after seeing what it does to  people, then you get what you deserve. I mean hell, why not just snort some Drano???

(BTW, I voted for legalization of marijuana with certain restrictions. Use the money saved on needless law enforcement, plus the billions in tax revenue generated, to crack down on harder drugs, such as meth.
 
(Also, I think they should legalize mushrooms while they're at it! :) :) :))

Sometimes it is made with Drano!  Meth is like inhaling a toxic waste dump.  The stuff turns kids into poisoned screaming lunatics overnight. 

It's also sung by Rick James http://www.prowrestling.com/discuss/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif


Howard

I'm one of those odd people on whom drugs have the opposite effect.  Benadryl (which some docs recommend as a sleep aid) makes me hyper.  My kids are the same way...they have been on albuterol for asthmatic treatment and it puts them to sleep when most kids get hyperactive and jittery.


My husband is the same way.  Even Nyquil keeps him from sleeping.

Yep, me too.  I asked my doc about this and he said try taking DayQuil. ;D  I guess it only happens to 4% of the population or some ridiculously small %. 


The dr told my husband that it's the pseudophedrine (not sure if spelling is correct) that does it.  It's supposed to make you drowsy but works in reverse in some people.  Does the same thing to one of my friends.

FYI, in many drug stores now, you cannot buy more than 1 or 2 box(es) of allergy/cold medicine (i.e. Sudafed, Claritin, etc) as kids were using it in mass quantities to get high and make meth. 


Over here it's no more than 3.

The only one my doc & I have found (and, believe me, I've tried too many to name) that works the way it is "supposed to" is Xanax, (even Valium makes me hyper) and I sure as heck don't want to be taking that all the time for my insomnia.  :o


I can't blame you there.

It's also sung by Rick James http://www.prowrestling.com/discuss/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif


Howard
;D ;D :D ;)Is it the same song?Don wrote the one i'm talking about!Cheers!

A student of mine did a reserch paper on this.  M.J. was legal for most of our history (G. Washington cultivated it).  It was criminalized due, he found (I didn't check his sources, but they sounded legit) due to the efforts of the booze industry.  Booze is hard to make, while pot is easy to grow.  So if intoxicating drugs are already available, why not this one, which is non-addictive (or no more so than booze) and certainly no more harmful than booze.  Coming of age in the '60s....


Actually, it was grown for many hundreds of years, for rope and cloth.

Hemp Rope was a critical military supply in the time when ships used ropes for sails and rigging.  ANd it was used to make cloth like our current burlap.  It is very water and mold resistant, and resists stretching like cotton and other natural fiber ropes.

All this was made obsolete because of the advent of steam power and then later by synthetic fibers.  The Hemp grown was NOT the same "hemp" used for those funny cigarettes.  It is a close cousin (much like Poppy Seeds for rolls is a relative to Opium), but it is not the same.

Personally, I do not accept the idea of legalization as a way to solve our problems.  That is a route where I see great dangers.  If this is the case, why not legalize Cocaine, since people still take that>  And why not Heroin also?  Heck, people still commit murder, so let's just legalize that again.  Or if that is to severe, just legalize dueling.  That way at least each person gets a fair chance.

Some people tout Holland and other nations as good examples, while ignoring the fact that they also have an out-of-control heroin and cocaine problem now, and are considering legalizing those drugs as well.

Yet nobody looks to Japan, which has even stricter laws then we do when it comes to Marijuanna and other illegal drugs.  Paul McCartney only avoided jail because of who he was when he was caught with 2 joints in the 1970's.  I have seen guys spend 3 months in jail in Japan, and then senteced to 10 YEARS for simple possession.  This is a nation which takes drugs seriously, and they have very little drug problems there.

And for the alcohol reason, that is totally wrong.  The Marijuanna Tax Law was passed in 1931, during prohibition.  Alcohol was illegal at this time, so how could they have had any influence in this decision?

Actually, it was 1937, after prohibition ended and the Constitution amended.  And, the MJTA did not make marijuana illegal, but did make it next to impossible for anyone to possess.  It was the Boggs Act of 1951 that made it illegal.


Yes, you are right.  I forgot about that.  I remember that now because of a line in the original MASH movie, where the doctors are in the operating room, and on the PA the announcement was made about the law.

I see many reasons to refuse legalization, and no real good reasons to legalize it.  Among them are the high rates of Liver cancer, the chromosone damage done which causes birth defects, and the inability to perform a clean legal sobriety test that is admissible on court.

I had a good friend killed by a stoned driver in 1984.  When the scumbag was broutht to trial, they argued if he was "under the influence", and because of the impossability to perform a test to tell the level of intoxication of Marijuanna, he got off with "negligent homicide" instead of the more severe manslaughter charge.  ANd another good friend who was a chronic user had a son born in 1994 with severe birth defects.  After testing, it was determined that the damage done to his chromosones by pot was the direct cause.  Luckily, in men this is reverseable because it only affects the sperm, and his daughter born 4 years later was perfectly healthy.

Of course I know these are all refuted by the legalization crowd.  But having spent 10 years in the military where drugs are harshly treated, I can tell you it is great working in an environment without their influence.  And having worked in a Veterans Drug facility, I can tell you that nobody I saw there would agree with the legalization people after having used them.

Yet nobody looks to Japan, which has even stricter laws then we do when it comes to Marijuanna and other illegal drugs.  Paul McCartney only avoided jail because of who he was when he was caught with 2 joints in the 1970's.  I have seen guys spend 3 months in jail in Japan, and then senteced to 10 YEARS for simple possession.  This is a nation which takes drugs seriously, and they have very little drug problems there.



Malaysia is even stricter than Japan.  All around the airport, there are signs that say If you are caught with illegal drugs, you will be executed. 

Personally, I do not accept the idea of legalization as a way to solve our problems.  That is a route where I see great dangers.  If this is the case, why not legalize Cocaine, since people still take that>  And why not Heroin also?  Heck, people still commit murder, so let's just legalize that again.  Or if that is to severe, just legalize dueling.  That way at least each person gets a fair chance.

That's kind of wooly thinking: saying "don't legalize marijuana because that means you'll end up having to legalize killing people" is just plain ridiculous.  Smoking marijuana doesn't harm anyone else, so why prevent it?  Do whatever you like to your own body, just don't allow people to harm others.


Yet nobody looks to Japan, which has even stricter laws then we do when it comes to Marijuanna and other illegal drugs.  Paul McCartney only avoided jail because of who he was when he was caught with 2 joints in the 1970's.  I have seen guys spend 3 months in jail in Japan, and then senteced to 10 YEARS for simple possession.  This is a nation which takes drugs seriously, and they have very little drug problems there.

Japan has no historical or cultural link with marijuana: use has never been high, which is why they can be so draconian with the handful of pot smokers - you simply could not do that in the US or the UK without spending billions on new prisons.

And saying they have no drug problem there is inaccurate, too: nearly all opiates or heroin, as those are the drugs which have been around in that part of the world for thousands of years.  A Japanese friend told me a while back that it is simply not talked about; however opium is still common and not strictly policed at all.  The authorities don't like heroin, though as a simple derivative from opium it is still fairly prevalent.  Cocaine, pot etc. as foreign imports are stamped on as though it's the end of the world.  Having said that, I'll change my mind: Japan doesn't seem to have a drug problem, even though opiate usage is extensive (though I've no idea what the scale is compared to the West)

Actually, it was grown for many hundreds of years, for rope and cloth.

Hemp Rope was a critical military supply in the time when ships used ropes for sails and rigging.  ANd it was used to make cloth like our current burlap.  It is very water and mold resistant, and resists stretching like cotton and other natural fiber ropes.

All this was made obsolete because of the advent of steam power and then later by synthetic fibers.  The Hemp grown was NOT the same "hemp" used for those funny cigarettes.  It is a close cousin (much like Poppy Seeds for rolls is a relative to Opium), but it is not the same.
This is true.  The prohibition is on all hemp plants, not just cannibus.  The prohibition has more to do with business interests wanting to market synthetic fibers and timber pulp than with perceived dangers of marijuana intoxication.

Personally, I do not accept the idea of legalization as a way to solve our problems.  That is a route where I see great dangers.  If this is the case, why not legalize Cocaine, since people still take that>  And why not Heroin also?  Heck, people still commit murder, so let's just legalize that again.  Or if that is to severe, just legalize dueling.  That way at least each person gets a fair chance.
Once again, drug legalization is a complex issue.  As I say, prohibition and punishment isn't working.  The "War on Drugs" is a failure and a disgrace.  It's kept alive to subsidize law enforcement and exert more state control over the individual.  A prosaic solution is to decriminalize drugs and treat addiction as a medical problem, not a criminal one.

Some people tout Holland and other nations as good examples, while ignoring the fact that they also have an out-of-control heroin and cocaine problem now, and are considering legalizing those drugs as well.
Holland's problems with drugs and prostition are confined largely to the areas of Amsterdam where these things have been sanctioned.  Some people celebrate the liberal Dutch policies on drugs and commercial sex.  I don't.  I think addiction and prostitution are sad statements about humanity.  However, Holland is a very different society from America.  It's a tiny country with a relatively homogenous population.  Per capita, they have nowhere near the amount of criminal violence and social disparities America has.

Yet nobody looks to Japan, which has even stricter laws then we do when it comes to Marijuanna and other illegal drugs.  Paul McCartney only avoided jail because of who he was when he was caught with 2 joints in the 1970's.  I have seen guys spend 3 months in jail in Japan, and then senteced to 10 YEARS for simple possession.  This is a nation which takes drugs seriously, and they have very little drug problems there.
I agree with Philbo, here, but I don't really know much about Japan in re drugs.

Malaysia is even stricter than Japan.  All around the airport, there are signs that say If you are caught with illegal drugs, you will be executed. 
??? ???I thought paul Mccartney spent nine days in jail,but avoided prison.Cheers!

While we're on the subject of whether or not they should legalize marijuana, let me also point out something else I'd like to see them change: DRUG SCREENS. I have a commercial driver's license, and the federal Department of Transportation requires that all operators of medium and heavy trucks be subject to random drug tests. In a nutshell, if I went out and smoked a joint this weekend and then happened to get pee-tested the following Monday morning, I'd most likely lose my job. Which is total B.S. I would never even consider going anywhere near a commercial vehicle if I wasn't 100% sober. Yet these rules also apply to what I do in my own house on my own time. Apparently it would be perfectly all right for me to slam a whole bottle of tequila on Saturday night, punch someone in the nose, and then spend the night in detox; as long as I showed up for work on time on Monday and didn't have any alcohol in my system. But If I was to smoke some pot with my friends on Friday night at my house and then just kick back and have a good time, well, then I must be causing problems.  I think this is a total crock of sh*t but I like my job so I play by their rules. >:(

While we're on the subject of whether or not they should legalize marijuana, let me also point out something else I'd like to see them change: DRUG SCREENS. I have a commercial driver's license, and the federal Department of Transportation requires that all operators of medium and heavy trucks be subject to random drug tests. In a nutshell, if I went out and smoked a joint this weekend and then happened to get pee-tested the following Monday morning, I'd most likely lose my job. Which is total B.S. I would never even consider going anywhere near a commercial vehicle if I wasn't 100% sober. Yet these rules also apply to what I do in my own house on my own time. Apparently it would be perfectly all right for me to slam a whole bottle of tequila on Saturday night, punch someone in the nose, and then spend the night in detox; as long as I showed up for work on time on Monday and didn't have any alcohol in my system. But If I was to smoke some pot with my friends on Friday night at my house and then just kick back and have a good time, well, then I must be causing problems.  I think this is a total crock of sh*t but I like my job so I play by their rules. >:(


I agree.

I have a commercial driver's license, and the federal Department of Transportation requires that all operators of medium and heavy trucks be subject to random drug tests. In a nutshell, if I went out and smoked a joint this weekend and then happened to get pee-tested the following Monday morning, I'd most likely lose my job. Which is total B.S. I would never even consider going anywhere near a commercial vehicle if I wasn't 100% sober.

This forms, IMO the *only* possible argument against legalisation: there is no test for THC (tetra-hydro-cannabinol - the active ingredient in cannabis) intoxication- they know if you've taken it, up to weeks afterwards as you can check for presence in hair, but there's no way of testing if you're currently affected by the stuff.  As things stand, it's only because the drug is illegal that this sort of test has any standing at all; but if cannabis were legalised, what good is a test which shows that you've taken a legal substance at some point over the past week or so?

If the pro-legalisation lobby can sort that one out, the "keep it illegal at all costs" crew won't have a leg to stand on.


Not to mention that, depending on the type of screening they do, you can "pop" just by eating a poppyseed muffin (saw it on Mythbusters).  Now, most companies do additional testing on positives to rule that out, but not all do. ;)

It's true: http://www.snopes.com/toxins/poppy.htm

Japan has no historical or cultural link with marijuana: use has never been high, which is why they can be so draconian with the handful of pot smokers - you simply could not do that in the US or the UK without spending billions on new prisons.


But Japan is like that against ALL drugs.  Believe me, I have seen it.

I was in Japan with the military in 1988.  IN accordance with the agreement, the Military must turn over ALL drug offenders to Japanese authorities for prosecution.  Now granted, this is almost never needed, but the token jesture is made.

About once or twice a year however, Japan takes them up on it, making an example of these people, in order to help deture any such drug use.  The PFC I knew was such an instance.

This kid reported in after 30 days leave back home.  Now everybody knew that as soon as you reported into a new duty station (especially after extended leave), you get a urinalisis test.  But this kid either thought he would get around it, or have enough time to come out clean.  But he showed positive, and was given Article 15 punishment by the Marines (he lost 1 rank, had his security clearence revoked, and was sentenced to 15 days confinement in quarters).

In accordiance with regulations, the results of this positive test were turned into Japanese Authorities, and they decided this was a kid they would make an example of.  The JP (Japanese Police) showed up at the main gate 3 weeks later, and hauled this kid away in handcuffs.

It was part of my job to visit him in Jail, to bring him food, mail, and comfort items.  He was locked in a cell about 5'x10'.  He was in it alone, as all cells are solitary.  His diet was fish heads and rice, so I brought him a case of MRE rations every week to subsidize this.  Once a day he was taken out for "Exercise".  Unlike US jails, this meant EXERCISE.  2 guards watched as he stood in a 30'x30' area outside and jogged in place and did exercises.  If he stopped for more then a few minutes, the guards assumed he was done and took him back to his cell.  There was no hanging out and socializing with others like in US jails.

After 2 months of confinement, he was sentenced to 10 years at hard labor.  That was commuted, and he was expelled from the country.  I picked him up from the courthouse, and drove him straight to the Air Force base, where he was placed on the first flight leaving the country.  I last saw him as he caught a flight to Korea.  I have no idea how long it took him to get the the US, where he would then be punished again for being in an Unauthorized Absense status (AWOL) for over 2 months.

Now the way Japan looks at drugs, showing positive on a urinalisis test is EQUAL to possession of one ounce.  The way they look at it, you had to have it in order to use it.  And this goes for ALL drugs, not just marijuanna.  Cocaine, Heroin, Exstacy, Speed, they are all the same.

Draconian, yes.  But you have to admit, they are effective.

??? ???I thought paul Mccartney spent nine days in jail,but avoided prison.Cheers!


He spent the time in jail, and was expelled from the country, and can never re-enter.  This is why in the years since then, he has NEVER performed in Japan.  This was an agreement to keep him out of Prison, because he is Paul McCartney.  If he has been Joe Schmo, he would have spent time in Prison to be sure.

As a side note, it is commonly believed that the marijuanna found belonged to his wife, Linda.  But knowing he would not face serious charges, he took the rap for her.

This forms, IMO the *only* possible argument against legalisation: there is no test for THC (tetra-hydro-cannabinol - the active ingredient in cannabis) intoxication- they know if you've taken it, up to weeks afterwards as you can check for presence in hair, but there's no way of testing if you're currently affected by the stuff.  As things stand, it's only because the drug is illegal that this sort of test has any standing at all; but if cannabis were legalised, what good is a test which shows that you've taken a legal substance at some point over the past week or so?


That is a case I have been making for years, am glad somebody else has picked up on.

Alcohol is unusual, because of how the body handles it.  It is the only known intoxicant where it is possible to tell the LEVEL of intoxication by a medical test.  All other drugs can only test for the presence of the drug in question.

That is how my friend's killer got off.  Because there was no way to tell how stoned the driver was, he got a much lighter sentence.  He claimed in court that he had taken cold medication, and that caused the accident.  Never mind the fact that the cop testified to smelling marijuanna in his car after the accident, and the guy had the joint in his mouth still (because of drymouth, he was unable to swollow it).

If we have problems with drunk drivers still, imagine how it will be when stoners can drive legally, no longer having to hide their drug use.

Somehow, that just doesn't seem right.  I mean, the military KNEW he would be jailed, THEY had already punished him, but then he got it again (the AWOL status)? 


Yep, welcome to the world of the Military.

If you are in civilian jail of any kind, you are considered UA (Marines) or AWOL (Army).

The terms mean Unauthorized Absense or Absent Without Official Leave.  Because when you are in jail, you are not in a leave status, but you are still not at work.

Now there are ways around it.  I know a guy who had to do 2 weeks in jail because of a drunk driving incident.  He arranged with the judge to have it deferred a month, and arranged to take Leave for 2 weeks (military members get 4 weeks leave a year), so he could do his jail time and not have it harm his military career.

This is because a much higher level of conduct is expected of military members.  Getting in trouble with civilian authorities is a BIG no-no, and this is how that point is driven home.

To show how this works, he is actually punished 3 times for the same offense.

In the Article 15 hearing (Office Hours in Marines, Captain's Mast in Navy, and Article 15 in Army), is an ADMINISTRATIVE hearing.  It is not a legal one.  This is equivalent to an infraction in civilian life.

Then because he violated Japanese law, they get to hold a criminal prosecution.  This is a legal processing, which left him with a Felony conviction on his record.

Upon return to the US, he will face either another Article 15 hearing for the 2+ months lost time, or even a Summary Court Martial, depending on how badly they wanted him out.  If they wanted to keep him in, he gets a second Article 15, most likely loss of pay and more barracks confinement.  If they wanted him out, a Summary Court Martial, and a Bad Conduct Discharge.

The rule here is that you do NOT violate the laws and rules, ESPECIALLY when you are overseas.  If he was found innocent, more then likely the UA status would have been administratively cleared, with no effect on his record.  But because he was convicted, he sticks and he is punished for it.

The Military has a very rigid code of conduct, and it MUST be followed.  This is why the people in Iraq are being delt with the way they were.  And remember Tailhook, where they were punished for non-crimes done in a civilian hotel, at a non-military function.

But Japan is like that against ALL drugs.  Believe me, I have seen it.

I was in Japan with the military in 1988.  IN accordance with the agreement, the Military must turn over ALL drug offenders to Japanese authorities for prosecution.  Now granted, this is almost never needed, but the token jesture is made.

About once or twice a year however, Japan takes them up on it, making an example of these people, in order to help deture any such drug use.  The PFC I knew was such an instance.

This kid reported in after 30 days leave back home.  Now everybody knew that as soon as you reported into a new duty station (especially after extended leave), you get a urinalisis test.  But this kid either thought he would get around it, or have enough time to come out clean.  But he showed positive, and was given Article 15 punishment by the Marines (he lost 1 rank, had his security clearence revoked, and was sentenced to 15 days confinement in quarters).

In accordiance with regulations, the results of this positive test were turned into Japanese Authorities, and they decided this was a kid they would make an example of.  The JP (Japanese Police) showed up at the main gate 3 weeks later, and hauled this kid away in handcuffs.

It was part of my job to visit him in Jail, to bring him food, mail, and comfort items.  He was locked in a cell about 5'x10'.  He was in it alone, as all cells are solitary.  His diet was fish heads and rice, so I brought him a case of MRE rations every week to subsidize this.  Once a day he was taken out for "Exercise".  Unlike US jails, this meant EXERCISE.  2 guards watched as he stood in a 30'x30' area outside and jogged in place and did exercises.  If he stopped for more then a few minutes, the guards assumed he was done and took him back to his cell.  There was no hanging out and socializing with others like in US jails.

After 2 months of confinement, he was sentenced to 10 years at hard labor.  That was commuted, and he was expelled from the country.  I picked him up from the courthouse, and drove him straight to the Air Force base, where he was placed on the first flight leaving the country.  I last saw him as he caught a flight to Korea.  I have no idea how long it took him to get the the US, where he would then be punished again for being in an Unauthorized Absense status (AWOL) for over 2 months.

Now the way Japan looks at drugs, showing positive on a urinalisis test is EQUAL to possession of one ounce.  The way they look at it, you had to have it in order to use it.  And this goes for ALL drugs, not just marijuanna.  Cocaine, Heroin, Exstacy, Speed, they are all the same.

Draconian, yes.  But you have to admit, they are effective.

WOW! Is that ever harsh!  On the other hand, Asian societies aren't famous for their liberal punitive systems.  It's interesting because Japan is very restrictive about some things, yet very liberal about others.  The Japanese don't have the same concept of "individualism" that Americans have, which makes draconian laws easier to maintain.

I think American prisoners could do with a little less socializing.  They'd have less time to form gangs, get into fights, sell drugs, and learn how to be better criminals upon their release.  I'd also like to see weight-lifting replaced with yoga and Tai-Chi in American prisons.  I get nervous knowing those guys get to pump up into hulkster bonecrushing machines and then get let out to unleash their fury on the world.  Yoga, Tai-Chi, meditation and so forth would be more appropriate.  They might calm down somewhat.  How about Buddhism instead of the Nation of Islam?  Just some idle thoughts.

80sCheerleader wrote:
As your tragic story pointed out, people drive stoned NOW.  I don't think the number will increase/decrease if it is legalized.  Just as a drunk will continue to drive drunk, a stoner will continue to drive stoned.  In addition, if the police do a saliva test on a suspect, the amount of marijuana can be detected.  The problem with ALL drug testing, however, is that a recreational user can have a lower concentration, but the same loss of function as a chronic user.
Driving stoned is dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as driving drunk.  Marijuana doesn't do the same number on your central nervous system that alcohol does.  With pot, a lot more depends on the individual inebriated and the potency of the product.

But Japan is like that against ALL drugs.  Believe me, I have seen it.

No... Japan is against all foreigners taking drugs (especially bringing them into the country), but the police there will look the other way for locals taking opium or heroin, especially if it's a member of a well-to-do family (or yazuka).


Driving stoned is dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as driving drunk.  Marijuana doesn't do the same number on your central nervous system that alcohol does.  With pot, a lot more depends on the individual inebriated and the potency of the product.

I've never driven drunk, but did ride my motorbike stoned just once (I can't remember why, but there was something that made me think I had to go somewhere)... I thought I was tearing down the road at high speed, then looked down at the speedo and realized that I was doing only just over 20mph.


That is a case I have been making for years, am glad somebody else has picked up on.

...and it is still, IMO, the only valid reason for keeping marijuana illegal.  Personally, I think it is outweighed by the other reasons for legalisation, but with your experience you'd probably disagree.

Set limits on it as well as tobacco. Tobacco causes lung cancer and other diseases. It's still legal.  :o The sense is not there. Mary Jane is less harmful and allows everyone to wax philosophical  ;).

Tanya

I say just make it legal.  People find a way to do it anyways, while your at it make all drugs legal, one way or another people get them and do them

I kind of feel the same way about prostitution. If your make it legal, the tempation is not as strong to engage in it as the "illegal" stigma is driven away from it.

Tanya

I kind of feel the same way about prostitution. If your make it legal, the tempation is not as strong to engage in it as the "illegal" stigma is driven away from it.

Tanya



Yup I agree. Actually prostitution is legal in Nevadabut you have to have a permit

Set limits on it as well as tobacco. Tobacco causes lung cancer and other diseases. It's still legal.  :o The sense is not there. Mary Jane is less harmful and allows everyone to wax philosophical  ;).

Tanya

If the consumer paid the cost to society for each pack of cigarettes, one pack would cost about $12.00 U.S!