Just in from CNN, Vt Senator Pat Leahy was questioning Mr.Chaney about his Haliburton connections and was told, according to witness and to Sen Leahy, to "go f*** himself".  Details are unclear, but what do you think of a Vice President verbally assulting a senator in such a crude way?

No more then John Kerry flipping the bird in front of children.  If it is from CNN, I would bet its over done..

No more then John Kerry flipping the bird in front of children.  If it is from CNN, I would bet its over done..


Apparantly not.

Just in from CNN, Vt Senator Pat Leahy was questioning Mr.Chaney about his Haliburton connections and was told, according to witness and to Sen Leahy, to "go f*** himself".  Details are unclear, but what do you think of a Vice President verbally assulting a senator in such a crude way?

It's been picked up by the Sydney Morning Herald, I'm lukewarm on it so far, but we'll see what happens as the world turns from morning in Sydney to "morning in America"!
;D
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/25/1088046266081.html?oneclick=true

I'm still not convinced about the Kerry thing as I've not found anything on it...


This is just uncalled for.  No matter how different your political views are, someone such as Cheney should not be cursing their constituents.


You are right.  It is ok to think it, but don't say it...it looks bad.

Brian Lamb made a passing reference to the incident on this morning's Washington Journal.  Apparently, several American newspapers have reported it, including the Washington Post.  I haven't seen the article myself.

Kerry has cursed too, read this story by the AP:
  John Kerry was quoted as saying he indeed voted for the Iraq war, but that he didn't expect Bush to "f--- it up as badly as he did."


Even this outburst by the "second-tier" Democrat candidate was looked at as a calculated, cynical political move to compete with Howard Dean for the hate-Bush vote. As is his habit, Kerry blamed this latest political failure on everyone but himself. He even managed to blame Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wesley Clark and the media for his crash in the polls! He caused laughter by vowing to win New Hampshire, but the giggles petered out when campaign aides whispered that the senator was serious - and privately lowered expectations for the January 27th primary.

White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card suggested his home-state senator apologize to President Bush "or at least to himself" for making this statement which, in Card's view, was "beneath John Kerry." Kerry's camp swore that, F-no, he won't apologize. Kerry is reported by unnamed sources as quipping, "What is the big F-ing deal?" Meanwhile, the Boston Globe reports that Democrats want John Kerry to fire his chief media strategist, Bob Shrum, for helping elect (R)nold governor out in California. This comes at a time when one of the California governor's accusers has brought suit against him for, as John Kerry might say, F&%$!ing up her reputation.

Kerry has cursed too, read this story by the AP:
  John Kerry was quoted as saying he indeed voted for the Iraq war, but that he didn't expect Bush to "f--- it up as badly as he did."


Even this outburst by the "second-tier" Democrat candidate was looked at as a calculated, cynical political move to compete with Howard Dean for the hate-Bush vote. As is his habit, Kerry blamed this latest political failure on everyone but himself. He even managed to blame Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wesley Clark and the media for his crash in the polls! He caused laughter by vowing to win New Hampshire, but the giggles petered out when campaign aides whispered that the senator was serious - and privately lowered expectations for the January 27th primary.

White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card suggested his home-state senator apologize to President Bush "or at least to himself" for making this statement which, in Card's view, was "beneath John Kerry." Kerry's camp swore that, F-no, he won't apologize. Kerry is reported by unnamed sources as quipping, "What is the big F-ing deal?" Meanwhile, the Boston Globe reports that Democrats want John Kerry to fire his chief media strategist, Bob Shrum, for helping elect (R)nold governor out in California. This comes at a time when one of the California governor's accusers has brought suit against him for, as John Kerry might say, F&%$!ing up her reputation.


There's a difference between using the f-word as a slang word or an intensifier and the VP of the U.S. saying to a senior senator, "go **** yourself."  Even so, I don't think it's that big a deal.  It doesn't lower my opinion of Cheney (that would be very hard to do).

Brian Lamb made a passing reference to the incident on this morning's Washington Journal.  Apparently, several American newspapers have reported it, including the Washington Post.  I haven't seen the article myself.




It is the article from Reuters


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=2&u=/nm/20040625/pl_nm/campaign_obscenity_dc



It is one thing to say that to someone on the streets or someplace like that but on the floor of the Senate? Shouldn't government officals act civil when they are at work?



Cat

Kerry has cursed too, read this story by the AP:
  John Kerry was quoted as saying he indeed voted for the Iraq war, but that he didn't expect Bush to "f--- it up as badly as he did."


Even this outburst by the "second-tier" Democrat candidate was looked at as a calculated, cynical political move to compete with Howard Dean for the hate-Bush vote. As is his habit, Kerry blamed this latest political failure on everyone but himself. He even managed to blame Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wesley Clark and the media for his crash in the polls! He caused laughter by vowing to win New Hampshire, but the giggles petered out when campaign aides whispered that the senator was serious - and privately lowered expectations for the January 27th primary.

White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card suggested his home-state senator apologize to President Bush "or at least to himself" for making this statement which, in Card's view, was "beneath John Kerry." Kerry's camp swore that, F-no, he won't apologize. Kerry is reported by unnamed sources as quipping, "What is the big F-ing deal?" Meanwhile, the Boston Globe reports that Democrats want John Kerry to fire his chief media strategist, Bob Shrum, for helping elect (R)nold governor out in California. This comes at a time when one of the California governor's accusers has brought suit against him for, as John Kerry might say, F&%$!ing up her reputation.












Here we go again with absolute and unqualified support for the Bush league.  As to Kerry's remark, he used the f word in a manner that has been found by...who ever makes these decisions(was it Mr Bush's FCC?)...acceptable in the case of a rock star (I don't remember the details) to be acceptable since it wasn't refering to the act of f***ing.  Chaney, however, told Laehy to do it to himself, obviously refering to the physical act.  Apparantly a big difference.

In addition, what does this have to do with the behavior of our VICE PRESIDENT?  And on the floor of the U.S. Senate?  Of which he is president (for those who don't know, our V.P. is President of the Senate)?  Where are all those fundamentalists who should be screeming that his mouth should be washed out with soap?

Now let's look at this post from a brief "content analysis" perspective.  "Second tier" is obviously an editorial comment which adds nothing to the point.  "Calculated, cynical..." are also laden words expressig the opinion of the writer but unsupported by any evidance.  In fact, the allegation is totally unsupported.  Then we have refernces to polls, with no sources and no dates (although it looks like the reference is to pre New Hampshire primary polls - in politics isn't that anchient history?  Kerry won that primary, didn't he).  The lates polls I have seen (June 24) suggest that the race is very close, with a slight edge for Kerry.

I'm not commenting on the California stuff because, with the exception of my sister and dad, who live there, the difference between California and yogart is that yogart has culture.  I have no idea what GW is talking about re CA.

In terms of Iraq, though, it seems pattently obvious that Lill' Georgie and his pal have F***ed up royally.  How many peoppled killed yesterday?  My paper said over 100, including 3 U.S. soldiers.  More every day.  And as I said in the old board, "the beat goes on".

In that regard I am goig to start another thread regarding the honoring of our returning dead.

Here we go again with absolute and unqualified support for the Bush league.  As to Kerry's remark, he used the f word in a manner that has been found by...who ever makes these decisions(was it Mr Bush's FCC?)...acceptable in the case of a rock star (I don't remember the details) to be acceptable since it wasn't refering to the act of f***ing.  Chaney, however, told Laehy to do it to himself, obviously refering to the physical act.  Apparantly a big difference.

In addition, what does this have to do with the behavior of our VICE PRESIDENT?  And on the floor of the U.S. Senate?  Of which he is president (for those who don't know, our V.P. is President of the Senate)?  Where are all those fundamentalists who should be screeming that his mouth should be washed out with soap?

Now let's look at this post from a brief "content analysis" perspective.  "Second tier" is obviously an editorial comment which adds nothing to the point.  "Calculated, cynical..." are also laden words expressig the opinion of the writer but unsupported by any evidance.  In fact, the allegation is totally unsupported.  Then we have refernces to polls, with no sources and no dates (although it looks like the reference is to pre New Hampshire primary polls - in politics isn't that anchient history?  Kerry won that primary, didn't he).  The lates polls I have seen (June 24) suggest that the race is very close, with a slight edge for Kerry.

I'm not commenting on the California stuff because, with the exception of my sister and dad, who live there, the difference between California and yogart is that yogart has culture.  I have no idea what GW is talking about re CA.

In terms of Iraq, though, it seems pattently obvious that Lill' Georgie and his pal have F***ed up royally.  How many peoppled killed yesterday?  My paper said over 100, including 3 U.S. soldiers.  More every day.  And as I said in the old board, "the beat goes on".

In that regard I am goig to start another thread regarding the honoring of our returning dead.


Wow Kerry has a slight edge?  If I recall correctly Bush is now finally ahead again not that polls this early matter, if you don't believe me go to www.zogby.com or read the following:

Released: June 22, 2004
President Has Two Good Weeks;Pulls Ahead in Battleground States, New Zogby Interactive Presidential Battleground Poll Reveals



In a two-week stretch that included more positive economic news and mixed reports from the troubled Middle East, President Bush continued to improve his standing among Americans in key states, wresting the lead in the race for the White House from Democratic Challenger John Kerry of Massachusetts, the latest Zogby Interactive poll shows.

The poll, conducted June 14-19, shows Mr. Bush would win 285 Electoral College votes, compared to 253 for Mr. Kerry.

It marks the first time in the three polling periods conducted so far that Mr. Bush has taken the lead in the race, gaining 43 votes in the last two weeks and 67 in the last month. But races in many states are still so close as to leave the result unclear.

Mr. Bush has taken the lead, however slim, in four states in which he was trailing two weeks ago (Florida, Michigan, Nevada, and West Virginia), three of which he won four years ago. Having lost control of those states, Mr. Kerry gained the lead in just one state he was losing two weeks ago (Arkansas).




 
 

The Zogby Interactive Battleground States poll assumes that, in the 34 states not included in the poll, the candidate of the party who won the state in the 2000 presidential election will again win it in 2004. Those Electoral College figures have been added into the totals included in this chart.

Developments in the two-week stretch since the last Zogby Interactive polling was conducted in the 16 key battleground states were as unusual as any so far. The campaign for the White House was put on ice for about half of the period, as former President Ronald Reagan was laid to rest. In regal ceremonies from coast to coast, he was hailed as one of the most important American leaders in history.

Feted as a staunch defender of freedom in a dangerous world, and as the author of an economic policy that brought the nation back to prosperity from the brink of ruin, his name was promoted as one who should grace everything from Mount Rushmore to the ten dollar bill.

That week, Democrat John Kerry and Republican President George Bush both suspended official campaign activities out of respect, but while Mr. Kerry slipped out of public view – except for a brief appearance at the Reagan library to pay a final tribute – Mr. Bush used his incumbency to retain a spot in the national media limelight. He remained at the center of news coverage during the G-8 leadership summit at Sea Island, Georgia, then delivered a heartfelt eulogy to Mr. Reagan at the National Cathedral, which was carried to a wide national television audience.

Pollster John Zogby: “This is so incredibly close but, make no mistake about it, the President has gained on Senator Kerry. Mr. Bush has had a solid two weeks from the good will generated by the memorial to Ronald Reagan to the reminder of how ugly the war on terrorism can be with the horrific beheading of an American hostage. Since Mr. Kerry has not established his national security credentials, Mr. Bush will gain on that issue as Al Qaeda’s actions outrage the entire world.

--I'm personally sick of the stupid labels democrats give you to try and win cheap political points, if you don't like affirmative action you are a rascist, if you dislike gay marriage you are a homophobe, if you are the slightest bit religious you are a fundamentalists.  Its insane and now democrats will try to use this to their advantage but will probably fail.

I'm still not convinced about the Kerry thing as I've not found anything on it...


I remember clearly when that happened.  It was covered on Fox news, but never mentioned on CNN or any of the other networks that I know of.  Here is the text from the Washington Post:

Kerry's finger
    "Democratic senator — and certain presidential nominee — John F. Kerry, gave the middle finger to a Vietnam veteran at the Vietnam Memorial Wall on Memorial Day morning," NewsMax.com reported yesterday.
"Ted Sampley, a former Greeen Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, 'Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here.'
    "At that point, a Secret Service officer told Sampley to back away from Kerry. Sampley moved about 6 feet away and opened his jacket to reveal a HANOI JOHN T-shirt," NewsMax reported.
    "Kerry then began talking to a group of schoolchildren. Sampley then showed the T-shirt to the children and said, 'Kerry does not belong at the Wall because he betrayed the brave soldiers who fought in Vietnam.'
    "Just then, Kerry — in front of the schoolchildren, other visitors and Secret Service agents — brazenly 'flashed the bird' at Sampley and then yelled out to everyone, 'Sampley is a felon!'
    "Kerry was referring to an incident 12 years ago when Sampley confronted Sen. John McCain's chief aide, Mark Salter, in a Senate stairwell after McCain repeatedly offended POW families at a Senate POW hearing. Sampley, whose father-in-law at that time was MIA in Laos, followed Salter into the stairwell and, when they emerged, Salter had a bloody lip and a broken nose."

Here are some links:
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040602-010027-4217r.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/31/225546.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/6/2/160537.shtml

I remember clearly when that happened.  It was covered on Fox news, but never mentioned on CNN or any of the other networks that I know of.  Here is the text from the Washington Post:

Kerry's finger
    "Democratic senator — and certain presidential nominee — John F. Kerry, gave the middle finger to a Vietnam veteran at the Vietnam Memorial Wall on Memorial Day morning," NewsMax.com reported yesterday.
"Ted Sampley, a former Greeen Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, 'Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here.'
    "At that point, a Secret Service officer told Sampley to back away from Kerry. Sampley moved about 6 feet away and opened his jacket to reveal a HANOI JOHN T-shirt," NewsMax reported.
    "Kerry then began talking to a group of schoolchildren. Sampley then showed the T-shirt to the children and said, 'Kerry does not belong at the Wall because he betrayed the brave soldiers who fought in Vietnam.'
    "Just then, Kerry — in front of the schoolchildren, other visitors and Secret Service agents — brazenly 'flashed the bird' at Sampley and then yelled out to everyone, 'Sampley is a felon!'
    "Kerry was referring to an incident 12 years ago when Sampley confronted Sen. John McCain's chief aide, Mark Salter, in a Senate stairwell after McCain repeatedly offended POW families at a Senate POW hearing. Sampley, whose father-in-law at that time was MIA in Laos, followed Salter into the stairwell and, when they emerged, Salter had a bloody lip and a broken nose."

Here are some links:
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040602-010027-4217r.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/31/225546.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/6/2/160537.shtml


Good reporting, though this will no-doubt TRY to be discredited by a democrat.

This is ****ing ridiculous... you get asked about whether Cheney was out of order, and all you can do is say "Kerry this, Kerry that, Democrat liberal blah blah blah".  If this is what passes for political debate in the most powerful country on earth, then god help all of us.

This is ****ing ridiculous... you get asked about whether Cheney was out of order, and all you can do is say "Kerry this, Kerry that, Democrat liberal blah blah blah".  If this is what passes for political debate in the most powerful country on earth, then god help all of us.


Actually, I said NOTHING about it.  All I did was respond to somebody who said they could find no record of what Kerry was alleged to have done.

As I have said in the past with such things (most lrecently John Ryan's divroce charges), I find such behavior by ANYBODY to be disgusting.  I am not going to try and defent Vice President Cheney in any way, shape, or form.

I condemn both sides equally for such behavior.  If it is wrong for one (sexual Harassment for Justice Thomas), it is equally wrong for the other (sexual harassment for President Clinton).  You will see no defense by me of Mr. Cheney.

What Cheney did was not okay (even though personally I don't care he is a grown man) but if Kerry did something WORSE by flipping the bird in front of children then the democrats have nothing to complain about this sorry attempt to gain political points.

To summarize: we're left with the overwhelming feeling that on no account should either of the two candidates who have a hope of getting elected be allowed to do so. So, no change there.

What Cheney did was not okay (even though personally I don't care he is a grown man) but if Kerry did something WORSE by flipping the bird in front of children then the democrats have nothing to complain about this sorry attempt to gain political points.

Trust me, that didn't happen.  If it did, you'd never hear the end of it from the right-wingers.  It would be one of THE campaign issues by now.

Good reporting, though this will no-doubt TRY to be discredited by a democrat.


Now...There you go again.  How many Purble Hearts and Bronze strars does this Kerry have? And who paid this guy's bus fare to Washington?  While the right tries to discredit Kerry's war record (in the face of Georgie's desertion record) one has to ask who this guy is.  What is his record? Where was he in Veitnam?  Or is he just another Propoganda plant?  Where is the "liberal media" looking into his war record?  How about some fair and balanced.
Again, GW anything you friends say is true.  

And what does this have to do with the vice president telking MY senator to go F***k  himsif?

Thanks.  I looked, but couldn't find anything...

I still see these 2 things as different.

1) What Kerry did was wrong (no denying that) BUT a. he did it to a civilian, not a constituent,  b. the guy he "flipped the bird" was OBVIOUSLY there simply to provoke him,  c.  the "victim" had a history of provoking people and had even come to blows in the past (all of which was known by Kerry) & d.  Kerry had as much a right to be at the wall as Sampley did and deserved to pay his respects to his fallen fellow servicement in peace.  After all, there is no disputing the fact that Kerry DID serve in Vietnam
2) Flipping someone the bird is less offensive than being told to "F yourself" or to "F off"

Okay, after reading up on Mr. Sampley, I'm convinced he's a nut.  And, something else just popped into my head....with all the network coverage on Bush/Kerry on Memorial Day, isn't it funny that NOT A SINGLE picture exists of this "incident"?

Because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
If John Kerry had flew off the handle and flipped the bird in front of some children, it would be one of the major campaign issues.  Remember when Howard Dean told that old guy to sit down and be quiet?  They tried to pillory him for that!  If this story had any traction at all, it would be prominent in the litany of anti-Kerry rantings spewed forth by the right-wing media every day.
The Washington Times and Newsmax.com have an allegience to the destruction of Democrats, not a n allegience to the truth.  The Times is owned by the far-right Unification Church of Rev. Sun Myung Moon (aka the Moonies), and Newsmax is backed by the far-right foundations of Richard Mellon-Scaife.  Both media outlets are notorious for playing fast and loose with the truth, and are not above publishing wholecloth fabrications.  However, even they haven't tried to keep the Kerry Gives the Finger story alive.

I think that this whole story needs to go away.  It isn't worth the paper it was printed on.  (Neither would Kerry flipping the bird for that matter).  I think that the Leahy found Cheney's breaking point and Cheney flipped.  While what he said was not cool, think about it.  How many times have we wanted to tell our Senators (or other govt officials) that?  I think the papers need to get back to the issues on both sides.

Modified to add:

Just read my previous post in this thread and I sound a little wishy washy.  I think this second post comes from days of coverage.  I think this story is a non story.  There is too much other stuff going on in the world to continue to report this one into the ground.

I think that this whole story needs to go away.  It isn't worth the paper it was printed on.  (Neither would Kerry flipping the bird for that matter).  I think that the Leahy found Cheney's breaking point and Cheney flipped.  While what he said was not cool, think about it.  How many times have we wanted to tell our Senators (or other govt officials) that?  I think the papers need to get back to the issues on both sides.


The incident reflects Cheney's uber-arrogance.  That man already been imbued with more privilege against the public interest than any politician should get in a democracy.  The (fascist) U.S. Supreme Court just ruled the creepy veep doesn't have to reveal the content of his private meetings with the giant energy companies !!!  Doesn't have to?  IMHO, He ought to be impeached just for saying "no" in the first place!
With the Supreme Court smooching his big old white butt,* old Patrick Leahy is no threat to his  throne of corporate influence pedaling.  Cheney's just indignant over the fact that anyone is allowed to question him at all. 

*Edward Rooney, Dean of Students. ;)
__________________________________________________________________________

dip Van ****

I thought I'd test that name!  I knew it!  Isn't it going a little overboard when I can't write the Vice President's name, nickname for Richard, without it be auto-censored?   Yesterday, we were talking about the former Clinton advisor, "dip Morris"!  As for the above, what if you're writing about the star of "Bye Bye Birdie," and "Fitzwilly"? 
Who ever heard of the "dip Van **** Show"?  He's not a lesbian penis, you know!
:D

Because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!


This is the "Ostrich Syndrome" that so many people seem to have.  I am so glad I do not have this problem myself.

When I hear of somebody on my side doing something stupid, I just shake my head and wonder how they were so stupid.  I dod not scream when Rush was accused of drugs.  I just shook me head wondering how he could be so stupid.  I do not deny that it ever happened, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

We saw this in reguards to Monica.  I did not touch that woman.  I did not have sex with her.  Bill Clinton NEVER did that.  Ooops, there is a dress?  Well, maybe he did do it, but it does not matter! 

Of course, let's not forget, that was not the first case where John "F'ing" Kerry flew off the handle at somebody he was opposed to.  And the first time WAS caught on tape!

Or have you forgotten when he said to a bunch of other incidents John Kerry has been involved in?  Why do you think he is often called "John F-ing Kerry"?

Oh, but this is a lie of course.  NEVER MIND quotes like this, from John Kerry's own website!

Kerry shoots back, "No, but I have thought about cutting all your f***ing legs off at the knees."
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2002_0827

Once again, what Cheney said was wrong.  But if you are going to slam him this hard, then you sould be fair and equal, and go after your own party just as hard.

This is the "Ostrich Syndrome" that so many people seem to have.  I am so glad I do not have this problem myself.

Once again, what Cheney said was wrong.  But if you are going to slam him this hard, then you sould be fair and equal, and go after your own party just as hard.



I hear ya!  And I agree.  But I can't "go after" Kerry for something that DIDN'T HAPPEN.  The above mentioned story is an obvious fake.  No media outlets except to right-wing propaganda mongers even bothered with it.
As far as I know, John Kerry has not used the F-word as a term of contempt to a colleague on the senate floor.

These politicians today...they're all talk and no action. If Sen. Leahy was a REAL man he would've drew a glove from his pocket, slapped the vice-president across the face with it, and challenged him to a duel with pistols at 20 paces, just like they did back in the good old days. Our Congress is being ran by nothing but a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards.

These politicians today...they're all talk and no action. If Sen. Leahy was a REAL man he would've drew a glove from his pocket, slapped the vice-president across the face with it, and challenged him to a duel with pistols at 20 paces, just like they did back in the good old days. Our Congress is being ran by nothing but a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards.



It wouldn't be the first time that a Vermont delegate took action. Back in 1796, Vermont Congressman Matthew Lyon took a fireplace poker to a fellow congressman. He was then known as "Spitting Lyon".

http://www.viterbo.edu/personalpages/faculty/LEvans/Lyon.html



What I find really ironic about this incident with Cheney, was that very same day, the Senate called for "civility" between the parties. So much for Cheney being civil.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040626/pl_washpost/a6025_2004jun25



Cat

These politicians today...they're all talk and no action. If Sen. Leahy was a REAL man he would've drew a glove from his pocket, slapped the vice-president across the face with it, and challenged him to a duel with pistols at 20 paces, just like they did back in the good old days. Our Congress is being ran by nothing but a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards.

Well, that woulda been the end of old Leahy.  At 15 paces, Cheney would have spun around and shot him, would have just blown his @ss off!

Catwoman wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time that a Vermont delegate took action. Back in 1796, Vermont Congressman Matthew Lyon took a fireplace poker to a fellow congressman. He was then known as "Spitting Lyon".

http://www.viterbo.edu/personalpages/faculty/LEvans/Lyon.html
Great historical reference. That's why gentlemen didn't shoot their mouths off so quickly back in the day, they might end up getting something else shot off!


What I find really ironic about this incident with Cheney, was that very same day, the Senate called for "civility" between the parties. So much for Cheney being civil.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040626/pl_washpost/a6025_2004jun25
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you can keep buggin' Cheney about Halliburton.  If Leahy wanted civility he shoulda just shut his pie hole!

Well, that woulda been the end of old Leahy.  At 15 paces, Cheney would have spun around and shot him, would have just blown his @ss off!






At the count of 2?





Cat

I remember clearly when that happened.  It was covered on Fox news, but never mentioned on CNN or any of the other networks that I know of.  Here is the text from the Washington Post:

Kerry's finger
    "Democratic senator — and certain presidential nominee — John F. Kerry, gave the middle finger to a Vietnam veteran at the Vietnam Memorial Wall on Memorial Day morning," NewsMax.com reported yesterday.
"Ted Sampley, a former Greeen Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, 'Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here.'
    "At that point, a Secret Service officer told Sampley to back away from Kerry. Sampley moved about 6 feet away and opened his jacket to reveal a HANOI JOHN T-shirt," NewsMax reported.
    "Kerry then began talking to a group of schoolchildren. Sampley then showed the T-shirt to the children and said, 'Kerry does not belong at the Wall because he betrayed the brave soldiers who fought in Vietnam.'
    "Just then, Kerry — in front of the schoolchildren, other visitors and Secret Service agents — brazenly 'flashed the bird' at Sampley and then yelled out to everyone, 'Sampley is a felon!'
    "Kerry was referring to an incident 12 years ago when Sampley confronted Sen. John McCain's chief aide, Mark Salter, in a Senate stairwell after McCain repeatedly offended POW families at a Senate POW hearing. Sampley, whose father-in-law at that time was MIA in Laos, followed Salter into the stairwell and, when they emerged, Salter had a bloody lip and a broken nose."

Here are some links:
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040602-010027-4217r.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/31/225546.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/6/2/160537.shtml


Yes, now I remember this incident.  I did not serve in Vietnam, nor did Georgie, but I have been to "the Wall" and shed tears there.  What right does this guy have to tell any citizen, especially a highly decorated Vietnam veteran, that he has no right to be there?  Given the emotions that I feel at that hallowed place, I can very well understand how Kerry could have lost it, and while his action was inapproprate (the color is for emphasis) I think a bit more understandable than for our VP to tell a Senator to ..... as a result of a political disagreement.  From my point of view, the 2 are not comparable.

--I'm personally sick of the stupid labels democrats give you to try and win cheap political points, if you don't like affirmative action you are a rascist, if you dislike gay marriage you are a homophobe, if you are the slightest bit religious you are a fundamentalists.  Its insane and now democrats will try to use this to their advantage but will probably fail.


Obviously I deleted a lot of stuff here, about recent polls - Its still June for ... sake, who cares?

I'm just wondering where this rant came from, and how it is relevant to this discussion?  I've read through most of the political threads, and I may be wrong, but don't remember anyone suggesting that conservatives are racist, homophobic, or fundamentalists AS A GROUP.  Certainly some are - do the name Trent Lott ring a bell - and his supports of the blatantly racist Dixicrat Strom Thurmon?  And how about Tammy Bay Faker (oops - you know who I mean) and her wandering husband?  We might also consider BJU (Bob Jones University) that until recently prohibited inter-racial dating.  I guess the message is "if the shoe fits..."  Doth the man "protest too much"?

These politicians today...they're all talk and no action. If Sen. Leahy was a REAL man he would've drew a glove from his pocket, slapped the vice-president across the face with it, and challenged him to a duel with pistols at 20 paces, just like they did back in the good old days. Our Congress is being ran by nothing but a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards.


Might I point out that dueling has been illegal in the country for at least 100 years?

And if you want to talk about "yellow bellied cowards" you need to look no further than the executive branch.  Georgie was AWOL, Dickie had "other priorities", neither Rummy or Wolfie served.  Meanwhile Kerry was winning Bronze Stars and getting purple hearts (like for getting shot!).  Unfortunately the "yellow-bellied cowards" are in the executive branch.  I call them Chickenhawks.

At the count of 2?





Cat


Yea, I think Chaney would do that.  Pat is to decent a guy to cheat like that.  That's why he isn't a millionaire.  Chaney, on the other hand....

Might I point out that dueling has been illegal in the country for at least 100 years?Well dadgummit, it's high time they brought it back!
And if you want to talk about "yellow bellied cowards" you need to look no further than the executive branch.  Georgie was AWOL, Dickie had "other priorities", neither Rummy or Wolfie served.  Meanwhile Kerry was winning Bronze Stars and getting purple hearts (like for getting shot!).  Unfortunately the "yellow-bellied cowards" are in the executive branch.  I call them Chickenhawks.
And that's the problem. The "baby boom" generation is in power now, and there are very few politicians of either party in that age group who inspire confidence in me. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, once "Generation X" (a condescending label, if I do say so myself) starts taking power we might just straighten out this mess.

Well dadgummit, it's high time they brought it back!

And that's the problem. The "baby boom" generation is in power now, and there are very few politicians of either party in that age group who inspire confidence in me. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, once "Generation X" (a condescending label, if I do say so myself) starts taking power we might just straighten out this mess.

It seems bot Clinton and Dubya inspire confidence is many millions, depending on political affiliation.  There are many charismatic politicians in the 40-60 age group.  Most of them don't stand a chance of becoming President.  The Presidency is now an office bought by patronage, with a vetting process not survivable by most human beings.

A new angle to all this is that Mr Chaney, according to my local paper began the conversation be telling Laehy that it was "chicken s##t" to question Chaney's ethics regarding the Halburton ripoffs (sorry, contracts).  I also find it interesting that the Republicans are makinga big stink about "shock Jock" vulgarity on the radio, but none have come close to asking Chaney, at least publically, to wash his mouth out.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not a prude, and on rare occasions use one or another explitive to emphasis a point.  But my general rule is that I do so on purpose and for "dramatic effect", not because I have nothing else to say.  Looks to me like Mr Chaney is up against the wall.  GO, GO, Go Pat!!!  Nail that corrupt person.