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Subject: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/28/04 at 6:48 pm

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/patriot_act.html



"Patriot Act II

Final Piece of Police State Puzzle Ready
By John Tiffany

The Bush administration’s allies in Congress, led by J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, the speaker of the House, have launched another assault on constitutionally protected civil liberties with a bill many are calling Patriot Act II (PA II). However, it is not to be confused with the 2003 version of Patriot Act II. But according to the Associated Press, in a draft of the House GOP legislation, many of the provisions are similar to the draft copy of the “Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003” that leaked out of the Justice Department in January 2003.

Many Democrats and civil libertarians charge the new PA II authorizes heavy-handed infringements on civil liberties. House Democratic leaders and civil liberties advocates said on Sept. 22 that the Republican bill ostensibly responding to the findings of the 9-11 commission would go well beyond the panel’s recommendations. It would call for broad new powers for law enforcement agencies, they said, and would include new authority to conduct electronic surveillance in terrorism investigations.

Among the provisions, said AP, are measures on the deportation of aliens who are suspected of being linked to foreign revolutionary groups which have been labeled as terrorists, mandatory pretrial detention for terrorism suspects, warrants against non-citizens even when a target can’t be tied to a foreign power and enhanced penalties for threats or attempts to use chemical or nuclear weapons.

John Feehery is a spokesman for Hastert. Feehery told AP that criticism of the bill was unwarranted as of the evening of Sept. 22, because the legislation was still not in final form and was not ready for release to the public. A spokesman for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) agreed on Sept. 22 that House members were still working on a final version of the legislation.

But critics warn that the proposed law is aimed against the entire U.S. population, not a minority of Arab immigrants.

The proposal, they say, would grant the government the power to strip citizenship of native-born Americans and deport them without any evidence of wrongdoing, even though this would be contrary to the Constitution.

It would also allow for secret arrests, secret trials and secret torturing of “suspects.” Habeas corpus, Americans’ most sacred right, would be eliminated.

The law would also remove all restrictions on police spying on citizens.

Patriot Act II would create 15 new death penalties, one of which could be applied to acts of protest. Under the Hastert measure’s definitions, anti-war protesters could be deemed terrorists. In fact, any dissident could be spied on, harassed, and imprisoned indefinitely for exercising their legal and constitutionally protected rights.

This legislation would give the government the same power that Stalin and Julius Caesar gave themselves, said one detractor.

While terrorism certainly is a threat that must be addressed, curtailing the civil liberties of innocent Americans is by no means a way of doing so.

AFP readers will recall that the first so-called Patriot Act was passed without the members of Congress being allowed to view the draft of the bill. Those who wanted it to be read and debated were told to vote for it or they would be blamed for the next terrorist outrage. It passed overwhelmingly.

Many experts fear similar tactics will be used to pass PA II, keeping the public ignorant of the proposed law’s existence until it is too late."



I'm speechless.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: Jared on 09/28/04 at 6:52 pm

Amerika Uber Alles, eh guys?

This is nuts....this isn't just nuts, it's Nazi.

Bush must be stopped.

Join the Resistance!  Vote Kerry!

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/28/04 at 6:56 pm


Amerika Uber Alles, eh guys?

This is nuts....this isn't just nuts, it's Nazi.

Bush must be stopped.

Join the Resistance!  Vote Kerry!



Yes, I hope Kerry wins more than ever.

If Bush wins, and this law goes into action, I think after my 18th birthday I will seek political asylum in Canada or Britain. Because according to the law, you could be incarcerated indefinitely for protesting, which I am sure is political persecution under international law.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/28/04 at 7:13 pm

AmeriKKKa is going F-A-S-C-I-S-T!!!

All citizens who vote for Bush are endorsing a fascist state.  Remember, the way fascism succeeds is through broad populist support based on the scapegoating of groups deemed "enemies of the people."  In this case, terrorists, Muslims, the French, and liberals.

Here is the tragedy for fascist supporters:  guys like GWBush2004 always see the incipient totalitarian regime as beneficial to them for the regime will smite the enemies of the chosen people, redeem the culture from degenerate influences, and restore the nation to greatness.  Whether the state was Nazi Germany, fascist Italy or Spain, Bolshevik Russia, or Maoist China, the GWBush2004's of every dictatorship find the organs of the state grabbing for THEM!  They never saw it coming.  They always thought they were the good guys.  They never faltered in their support for the regime.  Yet they find their front door kicked open in the middle of the night and themselves hauled away by the Gestapo.  
Why, oh, why?  Maybe their in-laws were caught up in sedition, maybe they unintentionally showed  disloyalty, maybe their neighbor held a grudge and finked on bogus charges, maybe their employer was providing service to an enemy state.  Anyway the 2:00 a.m. raid happens, they never saw it coming.
As loyal Soviet citizens used to say as they were imprisoned in the bowels of the Kremlin, "If only Comrade Stalin knew about this..."
So, Mr. and Mrs. America, vote for your bold leader, strong and resolute!  Vote to "win the war on terror"!  But keep watch what you say, watch what you do, and choose carefully those with whom you associate...and sleep with one eye open, so to speak!

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/28/04 at 7:25 pm

This is VERY scary. I can't for the life of me understand why people DON'T SEE this. Bush is really making a mockery out of the Constitution. The Constitution is what holds this country together and without the Constitution-we don't have a nation-we have a dictatorship.





Cat

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/28/04 at 11:27 pm


Amerika Uber Alles, eh guys?

This is nuts....this isn't just nuts, it's Nazi.

Bush must be stopped.

Join the Resistance!  Vote Kerry!

 
If Bush is even half as bad as you PRETEND he is, something like losing the election isn't going to stop him, is it?  Let me guess, he'll use the military and take over America and we'll all be his slaves and be forced to do his bidding?

Sounds very paranoid....

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/28/04 at 11:43 pm

There's no way to know whether he will or not, GWB.

But you avoided the question at hand.

Do you support this bill? It allows secret arrests, detentions, and trials, it allows anti-war protestors in certain cases to be charged with terrorism, it allows you to possibly receive the death sentence under this new definition of 'terrorism', the government can strip you of your citizenship and deport you, and law enforcement will have little if any new restraints if it is passed.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/28/04 at 11:49 pm


There's no way to know whether he will or not, GWB.

But you avoided the question at hand.

Do you support this bill? It allows secret arrests, detentions, and trials, it allows anti-war protestors in certain cases to be charged with terrorism, it allows you to possibly receive the death sentence under this new definition of 'terrorism', the government can strip you of your citizenship and deport you, and law enforcement will have little if any new restraints if it is passed.




No i'm not a supporter of that.  But just like with the Patriot Act, I will until somebody actually comes out and says they were violated because of it (and by the way, O'Reilly is still looking for a person who will claim to have been mistreated under The Patriot Act, so give him a call.)  If you really believe it will effect you, you're crazy, I'm willing to bet no one here ever feels any negative effect from it. 

Again, I don't support it.  But I don't support President Bush's immigration policy either, but look at all the positives he has.  President Bush is a great president, and he will be going no where until 2009.

Bush has to many positives, and Monsieur Kerry has to many negatives for me to vote for Kerry.  Bush is the clear choice.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/28/04 at 11:59 pm





No i'm not a supporter of that. But just like with the Patriot Act, I will until somebody actually comes out and says they were violated because of it (and by the way, O'Reilly is still looking for a person who will claim to have been mistreated under The Patriot Act, so give him a call.) If you really believe it will effect you, you're crazy, I'm willing to bet no one here ever feels any negative effect from it.

Again, I don't support it. But I don't support President Bush's immigration policy either, but look at all the positives he has. President Bush is a great president, and he will be going no where until 2009.

Bush has to many positives, and Monsieur Kerry has to many negatives for me to vote for Kerry. Bush is the clear choice.



I can respect that, I feel the same way except I feel Kerry is the lesser of two evils.

However, it doesn't matter whether or not these abuses have happened in a widespread manner or anything, what matters is that as a law it gives them this kind of power. Would you give up your 1st ammendment rights legally if you didn't think the government would ever call you on it?

It's the principle that matters. And I am not entirely convicned there haven't been abuses under the Patriot Act. The government is not all benevolent, especially the Justice Department, in my book. Look at their track record of handling these types of special powers.

Anyway, why do you feel a need for all of the French remarks? It comes across as prejudice, and it cuts down any sensible points you might make. Like I said before, it's very low brow. I can't believe you as an adult of your age cannot see the immaturity of it, while I as someone nearly 30 years younger can easily recognize these kinds of remarks for their asinine nature. Instead of continuing over and over again to use childish taunts, like calling Kerry french-looking, actually write out an essay on the ISSUES and how you disagree with him on them. And I want you to do this from a PERSONAL point of view, independent of any talking points from the Conservative media( ;) ).

Threads talking about the man's skin color, and showing pictures of him getting hit in the head with a soccer ball make you come across as being at the same level as the other teenagers in my government class who's best political argument is 'Democrats are g@y'. So please, prove yourself to be a capable of a well thought-out, non talking point argument, free of childish taunts.

Choice is yours: Redeem yourself as an intellectual thinking adult, or re-inforce our image of you as a childish, group-thinking pedestrian.

Ball in your court, as they say.  :)

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/29/04 at 12:20 am





Anyway, why do you feel a need for all of the French remarks? It comes across as prejudice, and it cuts down any sensible points you might make. Like I said before, it's very low brow. I can't believe you as an adult of your age cannot see the immaturity of it, while I as someone nearly 30 years younger can easily recognize these kinds of remarks for their asinine nature. Instead of continuing over and over again to use childish taunts, like calling Kerry french-looking, actually write out an essay on the ISSUES and how you disagree with him on them. And I want you to do this from a PERSONAL point of view, independent of any talking points from the Conservative media( ;) ).

Threads talking about the man's skin color, and showing pictures of him getting hit in the head with a soccer ball make you come across as being at the same level as the other teenagers in my government class who's best political argument is 'Democrats are g@y'. So please, prove yourself to be a capable of a well thought-out, non talking point argument, free of childish taunts.

Choice is yours: Redeem yourself as an intellectual thinking adult, or re-inforce our image of you as a childish, group-thinking pedestrian.

Ball in your court, as they say.  :)


First lets start off with the French thing.  Personally I thought it was funny, and I thought liberals were the ones with the sense of humor even with ''exciting'' candidates like: Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry.  The french thing shouldn't even be a big deal, especially with all the people (and some people here have done it) who say Bush looks like monkey.  So monkey good, french bad.  Its a double-standard, but I will cease, and change my avatar.

The threads with the soccor ball and ''agent orange Kerry'' were suppose to be funny.  Kind of like the picture posted (and it wasn't an article) with the women getting her hair pulled at a Bush-Cheney rally in Pennsylvania.  If everyone here wants to talk straight politics, and never get one bit off-topic, I have no problem at all with that, but I think its fun to have something humorus once and a while.

Anyway...I'm still looking for a pro-Kerry person, not an anti-Bush.  You could fit all of Kerry's passionate supporters into a Hummer.  They amount to an Army of One: the ''one'' being Senator Kerry.  How many Kerry-for-President bumper stickers have you seen, hmmm?  I thought so.

And finally I think Mark Steyn, writer for The Sunday Telegraph put it best when he wrote:  ''Democrats decided that Kerry was more 'electable.'  Which he is, next to Howard Dean, in the same way that, if Saddam Hussein and Robert Mugabe entered the Iowa caucuses, Farmer Bob would be Mister Electable.''

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: McDonald on 09/29/04 at 1:14 am

This is McCarthyism all over again, except worse. I'm counting the days until I make my move to Canada. Dual-Citizenship is a godsend. I'll do all my b!tching from the outside where it's safe (for now anyway). The USA, hijacked by a bunch of right-wing crackpots... I never thought it could happen. The writings are all over the walls. I see propaganda everywhere I look now, and I hear the same slogans and droning coming out of countless people who have been brainwashed. Of course, I live in TX, so it is much more obvious around here because people tend to be weak-minded more here than elsewhere. I know. I have lived in three out of our four most populous states (New York, Florida, and Texas), that just leaves California. ::Sighs:: My hope is diminishing daily. We're screwed.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/29/04 at 1:41 am


, I live in TX, so it is much more obvious around here because people tend to be weak-minded


Let me guess, they are weak-minded because its a populated republican state with 33 electoral votes (less than California, more than New York)?  McDonald here is basically saying that everyone in Texas, except of course of people like him, are weak-minded and stupid.  How ignorant can you get?

Good, go to Canada.  Thats what I say to the fringe left that attend the Church of St. Michael Moore.  Its a liberals' paradice: high unemployment, the thinking that the government's purpose is to protect you from yourself, socialized healthcare where it takes 62 at one Calgary hospital to get a hip replacement and 54 weeks at another hospital to get a knee replacement (source: The Calgary Herald), abortion on demand, hard to get a small business going, CNN but no FNC, great papers like The Globe and Mail (sarcasm), taxes so high you wouldn't believe it, hard to make money due to all the taxes (in America the rich are taxed at 28%, in Canada around 70%,) and of course, pot for all.  What a place!  Where can I sign up?

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/29/04 at 10:46 am





No i'm not a supporter of that.  But just like with the Patriot Act, I will until somebody actually comes out and says they were violated because of it (and by the way, O'Reilly is still looking for a person who will claim to have been mistreated under The Patriot Act, so give him a call.)  If you really believe it will effect you, you're crazy, I'm willing to bet no one here ever feels any negative effect from it. 

Again, I don't support it.  But I don't support President Bush's immigration policy either, but look at all the positives he has.  President Bush is a great president, and he will be going no where until 2009.

Bush has to many positives, and Monsieur Kerry has to many negatives for me to vote for Kerry.  Bush is the clear choice.



Here are the fact that first Patriot Act violates the Constitution.


http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11054&c=130


But, I know you are not worried about that because you are a law-abiding citizen right? You also don't have anything to worry about because (I am assuming) you are white-and male and if you are blond hair and blue eyed, the better. I am also assuming that you are Christian so, again, you have nothing to worry about. You are also pro-Bush and would NEVER be at a protest rally so again, you have nothing to fear. But, wait, you do have something to fear. I quote Martin Niemoller once again.

When they came for the communists, I said nothing because I was not a communist.
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing. I was not a Jew. 
When they came for the Catholics, I said nothing. I was a Protestant.
When they came for me, there was nobody left to speak up for me.



You don't think it couldn't happen here? Don't believe it. It could and it is happening NOW! And if we have another four years of your buddy Dubya, it is only going to get worse.



Cat

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/29/04 at 12:23 pm

I too am scared about our future, and this new Patriot II is very scary. 

Howard Dean spoke on campus here yesterday with a message very much like what he said in  his campaign.  He encouraged everyone to run for office, any office, contribute to campaigns, work for candidates.  Voting alone, he said, gets you a "D" in civic participation.

He also called for instant runoff voting, which several cities here now use (San Francisco for one) and which is used in other countries (I forget which ones).  The idea is that you rank the candidates.  If after the first round, no one has 50+% the lowest vote getter is removed and the first choice votes cast for h/h are given to the second choice on those ballots, etc until there  is a winner.

Another reform would be to distribute electoral votes proportionately, you get 40% of a state's popular vote, you get 40% of its electoral votes.  Both make lots of sense.

Look, it took the neocons and christia right 20 years to take over the country, and they haven't fully succeeded yet.  Now is the time to begin fighting back.  We were all too complacent for too long.  Democracy, as they say, is NOT a spectator sport.

Oh, and to respond to something GWB posted, I doubt if Bush could pull off a military coup, but IO have no doubt that he will try to steal the election if he has to.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: conker on 09/29/04 at 12:38 pm





Let me guess, they are weak-minded because its a populated republican state with 33 electoral votes (less than California, more than New York)?  McDonald here is basically saying that everyone in Texas, except of course of people like him, are weak-minded and stupid.  How ignorant can you get?

Good, go to Canada.  Thats what I say to the fringe left that attend the Church of St. Michael Moore.  Its a liberals' paradice: high unemployment, the thinking that the government's purpose is to protect you from yourself, socialized healthcare where it takes 62 at one Calgary hospital to get a hip replacement and 54 weeks at another hospital to get a knee replacement (source: The Calgary Herald), abortion on demand, hard to get a small business going, CNN but no FNC, great papers like The Globe and Mail (sarcasm), taxes so high you wouldn't believe it, hard to make money due to all the taxes (in America the rich are taxed at 28%, in Canada around 70%,) and of course, pot for all.  What a place!  Where can I sign up?

For a proud american you are sure hung up on what we do here in Canada...SCARED?
No one pays 70% taxes, umemployment is low here because we are taking all of your outsourced jobs not India, we ship more oil to you than anyone else including Bush's friends the Suadis, we also supply most of your gas and a good portion of your electricty.
FNC is almost here as per a headline story in the aforementioned Globe and Mail...seems there's finally a small demand for it.
We are mainly happy here, the murder rate is down for the 31st year in a row, we have elections most fought on issues not image.
I'm not sure where you got the healthcare stats but again numbers don't seem to be your thing...I'd suggest if someone has to wait that long they go to one of the other 10 hospitials in Calgary to get better service.....and our beer tastes better!

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/29/04 at 12:47 pm



and our beer tastes better!


On all your other point I agree, but not on  this one.  Both Catamount and Long Trail produce some dark beers that are as good or better than Guiness.  LaBats can't compare. ;)

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: conker on 09/29/04 at 12:49 pm

Sorry Carlos I was talking more along the lines of the regular carbonated swill the average Bush supporter would drink.
Personally I go for the micro brews or something from Britian/Ireland...I perfer dark and bitter in beer and women.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: McDonald on 09/29/04 at 10:46 pm

Let me guess, they are weak-minded because its a populated republican state with 33 electoral votes (less than California, more than New York)?  McDonald here is basically saying that everyone in Texas, except of course of people like him, are weak-minded and stupid.  How ignorant can you get?


It was a fair guess and a typical one, but as usual, you are wrong. It has much less to do with politics than you think it does. I happen to have lived in rural Texas for extended periods of time. People here (in rural East and North Texas) tend to be less educated and less articulate than the common New Yorker or South Floridian. They also tend to be highly religious. These are people who will most commonly believe anything they hear. If their minister them that Bush is on God's side or vice versa and they will believe it. Hell, my aunt taught at a rural school in Blum where one of her coworkers (also a teacher) told some athletes that Black people can run faster than whites because they have extra muscles in their legs... Need I say more? I once had to explain to an 18 year old MALE co-worker of mine (a high school student) what an erection was!

Also, I will have you know, GW, that I am good friends with a few very intelligent people who are Republicans for one reason or another. I never made the correlation between Republicanism and weak-mindedness. You assumed such a relation out of me, which gives fair indication that because I am a Liberal who is calling a Texan majority weak-minded, my reasons would clearly be because of the high concentration of Conservatism here. THAT to me sounds like ignorance!

It was a cheap shot, your specialty, but yet again you have missed.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/29/04 at 11:49 pm




It was a fair guess and a typical one, but as usual, you are wrong. It has much less to do with politics than you think it does. I happen to have lived in rural Texas for extended periods of time. People here (in rural East and North Texas) tend to be less educated and less articulate than the common New Yorker or South Floridian.

Did you ever live out on the arid plains where they farm ostriches and stuff?  I've heard there ain't much civilization around those parts.  I don't know about less articulate than in other parts, you can go to Brooklyn and talk philosophie with Vinnie if you want, but....
They also tend to be highly religious. These are people who will most commonly believe anything they hear. If their minister them that Bush is on God's side or vice versa and they will believe it. Hell, my aunt taught at a rural school in Blum where one of her coworkers (also a teacher) told some athletes that Black people can run faster than whites because they have extra muscles in their legs... Need I say more? I once had to explain to an 18 year old MALE co-worker of mine (a high school student) what an erection was!
At least you didn't have to give a demonstration!  "Oh, one o' them things, why dint' you just say so?"  I remember all the hubbub Jimmy the Greek caused all those years ago, but I man, extra muscles?

Also, I will have you know, GW, that I am good friends with a few very intelligent people who are Republicans for one reason or another. I never made the correlation between Republicanism and weak-mindedness. You assumed such a relation out of me, which gives fair indication that because I am a Liberal who is calling a Texan majority weak-minded, my reasons would clearly be because of the high concentration of Conservatism here. THAT to me sounds like ignorance!

It was a cheap shot, your specialty, but yet again you have missed.

Like I say, who am I to presume anybody is weak minded?  Businessmen, farmers, engineers, teachers, auto mechanics, you name it, they all do exercise a degree of mental prowess every day, and thank God for that.  If I say somebody is politically misinformed, or if I say I disagree with somebody's priorities, I'm not saying that person is weak minded or stupid!

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/30/04 at 12:41 am




It was a fair guess and a typical one, but as usual, you are wrong. It has much less to do with politics than you think it does. I happen to have lived in rural Texas for extended periods of time. People here (in rural East and North Texas) tend to be less educated and less articulate than the common New Yorker or South Floridian. They also tend to be highly religious. These are people who will most commonly believe anything they hear. If their minister them that Bush is on God's side or vice versa and they will believe it. Hell, my aunt taught at a rural school in Blum where one of her coworkers (also a teacher) told some athletes that Black people can run faster than whites because they have extra muscles in their legs... Need I say more? I once had to explain to an 18 year old MALE co-worker of mine (a high school student) what an erection was!

Also, I will have you know, GW, that I am good friends with a few very intelligent people who are Republicans for one reason or another. I never made the correlation between Republicanism and weak-mindedness. You assumed such a relation out of me, which gives fair indication that because I am a Liberal who is calling a Texan majority weak-minded, my reasons would clearly be because of the high concentration of Conservatism here. THAT to me sounds like ignorance!

It was a cheap shot, your specialty, but yet again you have missed.


Oh I hit you dead center.  I would like some proof that those people, juse because they live in rural areas and go to church more often then the average people in other states are stupid.  Slow speech doesn't mean a slow mind.  You're labeling these people dumb because of your encounters with one or two of them, pretending like you are smarter then they are, when you haven't the slightest clue.  Its sickening and you should be ashamed of yourself.  Its people who think they are ''elites'' that make me gag.  

As for that 18 year-old, is it just me or are people like him in EVERY FRICKING STATE.  Ignorance is all it is.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/30/04 at 12:52 am





Oh I hit you dead center.  I would like some proof that those people, juse because they live in rural areas and go to church more often then the average people in other states are stupid.  Slow speech doesn't mean a slow mind.  You're are labeling these people dumb because of your encounters with one or two of them, pretending like you are smarter then them when haven't the slightest clue.  Its sickening and you should be ashamed of yourself.  Please move to Canada, its the perfect place for ''elites'' like yourself.  From what I just read you are still acting like you're smarter because they support Bush and only ''smart'' people like yourself support Senator Kerry.

As for that 18 year-old, is it just me or are people like him in EVERY FRICKING STATE.  Ignorance, plain and simple.

I said all these things in a slightly nicer way.

However, I'll tell you it's sick this scheme to divorce elitism from wealth.  George W. Bush is an inarticulate billionaire in a five-gallon hat and that gives him licesne to call himself a man of the people?  Give me an effing break!  If poor people couldn't vote, Dubya wouldn't give a rat's @ass about impressing them.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: GWBush2004 on 09/30/04 at 4:13 am




FNC is almost here as per a headline story in the aforementioned Globe and Mail...seems there's finally a small demand for it.

I'm not sure where you got the healthcare stats but again numbers don't seem to be your thing...I'd suggest if someone has to wait that long they go to one of the other 10 hospitials in Calgary to get better service.....and our beer tastes better!


So Fox News Channel may make it to Canada?  Finally is all I can say, now CNN can be beaten in two North American countries.

I got the healthcare story right here:

                                                      Waiting Game
         
''Canada's nationalized health-care system has led to outrageous waiting lists at hospitals across Canada.  The Calgary Herald reports that in Calgary alone, about 25,000 residents suffer and even die as they linger before obtaining the necessary treatment at the city's four major hospitals.  The waiting time for a hip replacement, for example, is 62 weeks at one hospital; 54 weeks for a knee replacement at another.  The Canadian Medical Association has released a 10-point plan called ''The Taming of Queue'' that proposes benchmark waiting times and hiring more healthcare professionals.  But though the Calgary Health Region has thrown hundreds of millions of dollars into expediting health care, the system is broke.'' 

--There you have it, socialized medicine doesn't work, never has, never will.  As for beer, I don't drink.

Subject: Re: 2004 Patriot Act II(aka The Enabling Acts 2004)

Written By: McDonald on 09/30/04 at 2:33 pm

Of course there are people like this in every state and every country. I said that in my experience, having lived in NY, FL, and TX (3 of the most populous states) that there is a higher concentration of weak-mindedness here. I stand firmly on this. It's true. You won't know it until you move here (which is a pretty bad idea if you ask me). It's dismal. Having spent my six previous years in Sarasota, the arts capitol of Florida, this place is like an itellectual hell.

If you're craving for some stats... here's what the US census says about Texas education level of people aged 25 years and above (as of 2000)...

Total Population 25 yrs. of age and above... 12,790,893
Total percentage who have attained no higher education... 71.5%
Total percentage who have attained a post-secondary degree... 28.5%
Total percentage who have no High School Diploma or Equivalent... 24.3%   

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