A few weeks ago, a lady was fired for having a Pro-Kerry sign on her car, and I thought that was absolutely wrong.  Yet this week, we have the opposite happening.

A police officer in Ohio was ordered to remove a sign from his personal vehicle which states "Veteran Against Kerry".  He wwas threatened with disciplinary action, and even dismissal unless he did this.  Even though there were cars with pro-Kerry signs and bumperstickers in the lot, he was the only one singled out for this action.

One thing I find interesting, is that the ACLU is not saying anything about this case.

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=17318&siteSection=1

That sucks.  I don't think your boss should have the right to say which sticker you put on your personal vehicle.  If it was his police car, I could see it...but only if the rule was no political stickers at all.

That sucks.  I don't think your boss should have the right to say which sticker you put on your personal vehicle.  If it was his police car, I could see it...but only if the rule was no political stickers at all.


I agree with you there.  Just as I supported the gal who was ordered to remove her Kerry sticker, this also is wrong.  And the fact that others were not told to remove theirs, that just makes it worse.

You are right.  I will even say it is un-American to try to force someone to follow your views.  Diversity is one of the best things about this country, IMO.

If there were no official emblems or plates on the car, and it was the officer'rs personal vehicle strictly for personal use, what bumper stickers he puts on the car is probably his business.
Perhaps the department didn't want people to see him in uniform with the car bearing a partisan statement, but the order still seems excessive.

If there were no official emblems or plates on the car, and it was the officer'rs personal vehicle strictly for personal use, what bumper stickers he puts on the car is probably his business.
Perhaps the department didn't want people to see him in uniform with the car bearing a partisan statement, but the order still seems excessive.


This was his personal vehicle.

And if this was the case, then they should have made the order to ALL political statements on personal vehicles.

Either way, I think this is wrong.  Following your logic, no members of the Military should be allowed to have bumperstickers either, because most of them drive them in uniform.

This was his personal vehicle.

And if this was the case, then they should have made the order to ALL political statements on personal vehicles.

Either way, I think this is wrong.  Following your logic, no members of the Military should be allowed to have bumperstickers either, because most of them drive them in uniform.

I wasn't saying he should remove it if he drives in uniform, I was just speculating on why he was asked to remove it.  Of course it's not fair.
Anyway, this is too piddley to worry about 30 days away from the scariest election of our lifetimes!

Censorship is wrong in either camp!

Tanya

I doesn't say that there were other cars in the lot with stickers.  It seems that there is
a policy that has been in place.  My father worked in a Vets hospital in the 50's and
60's and he, wasn't able to put bumper stickers on the car that was parked in the
employee lot.  This isn't an anti-Bush thing, this is a old ongoing policy for government
workers.


Police Officer Told To Remove Political Sign From Truck
Federal Judge Rules Against Officer In Request For Restraining Order

POSTED: 7:22 p.m. EDT September 29, 2004
UPDATED: 7:51 a.m. EDT September 30, 2004

Story by NewsNet 5

NORTH ROYALTON, Ohio -- A North Royalton police officer is fighting to be allowed to display a political sign in his truck, which he was told to remove while on city property, reported NewsChannel5.

Robert Breyley had a "Veteran Against John Kerry" sign in the window of his pickup truck. But his boss told him he had to remove it because of a policy that states classified city employees can't conduct political activities on city time or on city property.

Breyley and his attorney requested a temporary restraining order against the city, claiming that it violated Breyley's First Amendment rights. A federal judge denied the request.

Mayor Cathy Luks said that this policy is enforced because the city needs to present an image of neutrality.

The policy only applies to classified employees, such as police officers, and does not apply to elected officials.

There will be another hearing on this case next month.

I doesn't say that there were other cars in the lot with stickers. 


I watched 2 different interviews with him on TV last night.  One was taped and shown on CNN, the other was live on Fox.  On both of them, he said that there were other cars with stickers and signs FOR Kerry, and nothing was done to them.  His lawyer was with him on the Fox interview, and stated that if it was not for the fact that nothing was done to the people with Kerry stickers, he would not have taken the case.

To me, it does not matter.  These are personal vehicles, and the police department (or nobody else for that matter) has the right to order the removal of anything like that from a personally owned vehicle, unless it is obscene or offensive.

This sign was not obscene, nor was it offensive.

Unfortunately, that particular city has adopted a policy I, personally, find unAmerican and they've chosen to enforce it.  Since they have chosen to enforce the policy against this one officer, the letter of the policy should be enforced equally on all of the city employees to whom it applies.  They, too, should be asked, when parking their P.O.V.s on city property, to remove all political advertisements, whether campaign, party or cause, regardless of the message stated or implied by the advertisement, under threat of the same penalties this officer was threatened with.

(Stray thought:  I can't fathom why any city or business wouldn't want to BRAG that its employees take an active, diverse and decisive interest in politics and government.)

If it was his own personal vehicle, then I think he had every right to put whatever political statement he wants on it (as long as it is not offensive). Now, if he had that (or even a pro-Kerry sticker) on his patrol car, that would be a different story. I think employors are overstepping their bounderies.




Cat

Seriously. If it was his own car, then f**k the person that told him to remove his sticker. However, if it had been a patrol car, than a partisan sticker is a clear no-no. In fact, I'm afraid to put a pro-Kerry sticker on my own vehicle because of possible vandalism and/or police harrassment, i.e. getting pulled over unduely and perhaps a shakedown, just 'cause... (I live in @ss-backwards, rural TX). Why, just a couple of months ago, some feltchmongrel ripped my cousin's Kerry sticker off of his truck AT SCHOOL! Tensions in this country run that high! It's incredible, brother against brother type stuff.

I live in @ss-backwards, rural TX


Some people don't quit.  Another cheap shot?  I am still trying to get the thinking behind it.  ''They don't agree with me, so.....they are stupid, wrong, hicks, etc.''  Sad.

Some people don't quit.  Another cheap shot?  I am still trying to get the thinking behind it.  ''They don't agree with me, so.....they are stupid, wrong, hicks, etc.''  Sad.


You dare say this and your custom name is "Bush lover and smart American"? Let's not forget the past sig lines you've had that have bashed people. You have no reason to complain/whine considering the cr*p you have pulled in the past.

You dare say this and your custom name is "Bush lover and smart American"? Let's not forget the past sig lines you've had that have bashed people. You have no reason to complain/whine considering the cr*p you have pulled in the past.


Yeah so?  I've got a custom title, I'm not saying only Bush supporters are smart, or even coming anywhere near that.   

Past signature lines?  Please enlighten me to what they were and how I used them to ''bash people.''  You better have something to back up that big talk, otherwise your little lie will be exposed.  I'm getting sick of the total BS some people here are accusing me of.  Again i'm waiting on YOUR reply.  But then again, somebody else will probably get involved.

GW, I really don't think you are in a position to either agree or disagree with the way I feel about the place in which I live and my fellow inhabitants... You don't live here, you can't possibly know the way the majority here behaves.. you can only speculate.

Where the hell do you get off calling cheap shots in the first place. I think it's a cheap shot to take a rational fear of mine, which I have chosen to share, and turn it into "If they don't agree with me they're wrong..." piece of pseudo-satirical bullshhh! Did you even read my post? Or did you conveniently forget the part where I stood up for the Bush supporter's right to display his canditate's campaign sticker on his personal vehicle when you spouted off that "If they don't agree with me they're hicks.." tripe...???

I didn't use any word even resembling hick. I said that I was afraid to put a Kerry sticker on my car because my cousin's truck was vandalised when he had a Kerry sticker on it, and because I was afraid that I might be harassed by local law enforcement... You might not want to believe that such a thing is possible, but let me assure you that it is, given the virulently conservative fundamentalism that is rampant in my community (a speed trap with just over 500 people, and about six cops, all of whom are known for giving preferential treatment if they "know" you... whatever the hell that means). The latter situation, in and of itself, is a clear demonstration of unprofessionalism in the police force in my town, so who can be blamed for not putting other unorthodoxies past them?

And perhaps you didn't read my last post in the Patriot Act forum, where I gave statistics on Texas education... or maybe you did read it and just couldn't quite get that foot all the way into your mouth.

 

Stifling free expression is always wrong, even if its a sentiment I disagree with.  I think ir was Voltair who said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death you're right to say it".  My sentiments exactly, and I don't give a rat's butt for where you say it.

...six cops, all of whom are known for giving preferential treatment if they "know" you... whatever the hell that means).

In the biblical sense, maybe?


I think ir was Voltair who said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

It's "I disapprove of what you say", rather than merely "disagree" - it's an even more telling use of words, IMO (and yes, I think, it was Voltaire)

It's "I disapprove of what you say", rather than merely "disagree" - it's an even more telling use of words, IMO (and yes, I think, it was Voltaire)


Thanks for the correction, and you're right, it is even more telling.

Censorship is wrong in either camp!

Tanya
THAT is great ;)

This kind of thing never applies to private companies, only city, state, municipal, and
federal employees.  My understanding of it (and makes sense to me) is that people
whose jobs were effected by those elected into office were forced to put the bumper
sticker, or whatever, against their wish.  If they did not there were repercussions.  This
happened to the lower echelon, file clerks, cleaners, etc. They suffered job loss,
vandalism, harassment, if they did not. To counter this the policy was put in place that
this was a form of electioneering and would not be allowed on public property.  I
wonder if the cars in the lot were cars of employees, or cars of people there conducting
business.  The answer to that could make all the difference.

If it was his own personal vehicle, then I think he had every right to put whatever political statement he wants on it (as long as it is not offensive). Now, if he had that (or even a pro-Kerry sticker) on his patrol car, that would be a different story. I think employors are overstepping their bounderies.


One thing I find interesting, is how many times I have seen just this kind of thing on Government vehicles as well.

No matter where I have lived, I always notice that a lot of local Government vehicles will have Union stickers on them.  In fact, some of these stickers have quite vocal political statements associated with them.

While I have never before said anything about those, I do feel that they are fair in being ordered removed.  Because if nothing else, Unions are a very powerful political force in this country.  And if somebody states that they are not, they are deluding themselves.

And if they are legal to have because they are "non-political", then they should also allow other such stickers.  In fact, in the 1990's a city in Northern California (I forget which one) was ordered to remove all of the DARE stickers from the police cars, because it was a "Political Message".