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Subject: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/21/05 at 10:47 pm

At risk of sounding like a racist a*shole, I say "No".  Although they still suffer the effects of back in the day, nobody save some old people are really to blame and what can they do?  Besides they have a month, everything's named after Martin Luther King, and people will only listen to African American music these days.  That's compensation enough.  I'm tired of this PC Bull-shhh.

Reparations would only be an excuse for free money IMO.

-FHF

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: GWBush2004 on 02/21/05 at 10:51 pm


Reparations would only be an excuse for free money IMO.


You're exactly right.

Do I support black reparations?  No.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/21/05 at 10:54 pm


You're exactly right.

Do I support black reparations?  No.


We agree on something Bush man! :)  I'm not saying I dislike black people, I'm just saying they're not "better" just cuz they're black.

-FHF  ;)

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/21/05 at 11:00 pm


At risk of sounding like a racist a*shole, I say "No".  Although they still suffer the effects of back in the day, nobody save some old people are really to blame and what can they do?  Besides they have a month, everything's named after Martin Luther King, and people will only listen to African American music these days.  That's compensation enough.   I'm tired of this PC Bull-shhh.

Reparations would only be an excuse for free money IMO.

-FHF


A definite no from me, this generation doesn't owe blacks anything. They already have affirmative action and stuff. It's not our job to pay for the wrongs of the past, that's just part of our history that we can't take back. I have no problem with blacks or any other race, but no body imo should get anything just because they are a certain race. I just don't believe in that.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 02/21/05 at 11:02 pm

"In Honor Not In Money" comes closest to my sentiments.  There is no we to calculate in dollars America's slavery debt.  To put a dollar amount on "slavery" is demeaning.
The ruling class owes its continued success to exploiting people of all colors.  Most victims of American injustice don't even live in the United States anymore.
I don't know exactly what it is white America owes black America, but debt payment has to start with the cessation of America's lying about itself.
It would be honorable for America as a nation to stop denying America has a lot of blood on its hands.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/21/05 at 11:07 pm


"In Honor Not In Money" comes closest to my sentiments.  There is no we to calculate in dollars America's slavery debt.  To put a dollar amount on "slavery" is demeaning.
The ruling class owes its continued success to exploiting people of all colors.  Most victims of American injustice don't even live in the United States anymore.
I don't know exactly what it is white America owes black America, but debt payment has to start with the cessation of America's lying about itself.


Informed post, Max :)  I think we need to honor them as a culture and recognise slavery, but I'm tired of everything being named after MLK and dead presidents.  Please, the next time I see an MLK Blvd I'll puke.  :P

I'm tired of this "reverse racism" crap.

-FHF

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 02/21/05 at 11:09 pm


Informed post, Max :)  I think we need to honor them as a culture and recognise slavery, but I'm tired of everything being named after MLK and dead presidents.  Please, the next time I see an MLK Blvd I'll puke.  :P

I'm tired of this "reverse racism" crap.

-FHF

There's such a thing as "reverse racism," but much, much, much less than FOX News would have you believe.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/21/05 at 11:51 pm


At risk of sounding like a racist a*shole, I say "No".  Although they still suffer the effects of back in the day, nobody save some old people are really to blame and what can they do?  Besides they have a month, everything's named after Martin Luther King, and people will only listen to African American music these days.  That's compensation enough.   I'm tired of this PC Bull-shhh.

Reparations would only be an excuse for free money IMO.

-FHF


While I'm not for reparations b/c there's not an amount to truly cover what I would really want, you do sound like a racist asshole. You're saying I should feel compensated b/c I get a month (while you get a year of history that's truly debatable), everything's named after MLK (and it's not - I could name more things named after Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, and other white MALES, not females (which is a shame in itself)), and people listen to African-American influenced music? No one's better than anyone (and no one has said that, but you).

The topic is old and hasn't even been brought up lately. BTW, how do you feel about the Japanese and Jewish descendants who received reparations. I guess you really didn't know about that, did you?

There's also a difference between reverse discrimation/prejudice and reverse racism. Racism is a system of power based on race, which a perceived majority feels they have rights over other groups. In this country, the group that is best served by this system are whites. To go even further white males. Education, Law, Business and other major arenas can be affected by this system. Discrimination is the act of making prejudicing actions, such as saying biased things against another group or setting up a "neighborhood group" to disallow a family to move in next door to you.

Since I've laid down the difference of the two, can you honestly tell me there's reverse racism? Fullhouse, when was the last time you were told that you were basically a quota and could not study at a particular school? Did you lose any family members to lynching or beatings? Reverse discrimination does exist, but not the other. What I'm saying is if you're going to bring an issue up, understand the facts first.

BTW, FULL House, the next time I hear anything about Elvis or John Wayne, I'll make sure I'll puke.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/21/05 at 11:59 pm


While I'm not for reparations b/c there's not an amount to truly cover what I would really want, you do sound like a racist whatever. You're saying I should feel compensated b/c I get a month (while you get a year of history that's truly debatable), everything's named after MLK (and it's not - I could name more things named after Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, and other white MALES, not females (which is a shame in itself)), and people listen to African-American influenced music? No one's better than anyone (and no one has said that, but you).

The topic is old and hasn't even been brought up lately. BTW, how do you feel about the Japanese and Jewish descendants who received reparations. I guess you really didn't know about that, did you?

There's also a difference between reverse discrimation/prejudice and reverse racism. Racism is a system of power based on race, which a perceived majority feels they have rights over other groups. In this country, the group that is best served by this system are whites. To go even further white males. Education, Law, Business and other major arenas can be affected by this system. Discrimination is the act of making prejudicing actions, such as saying biased things against another group or setting up a "neighborhood group" to disallow a family to move in next door to you.

Since I've laid down the difference of the two, can you honestly tell me there's reverse racism? Fullhouse, when was the last time you were told that you were basically a quota and could not study at a particular school? Did you lose any family members to lynching or beatings? Reverse discrimination does exist, but not the other. What I'm saying is if you're going to bring an issue up, understand the facts first.

BTW, FULL House, the next time I hear anything about Elvis or John Wayne, I'll make sure I'll puke.

Tanya


Wow I sure offended you :(  I'm very sorry, Tanya, and I hope you can accept my apology.  I just wrote a post about kissing dead guy's a*ses too much also, just to let you know.  ;)  I'm just tired about people acting like if you suffer or are descended from one who suffer you're automatically a better person. Hitler died, does that make him any less a scumbag?
Jimmy Carter's pretty old, does that make his charity work any less honorable?

As for "reverse racism", I guess I'm more talking about how "ill" African Americans are and how "wack" white people and their music are.  And I love rap and not just the Beastie Boys. This topic hits me a lot because a street right next to me was changed to MLK.  Come on, it's not going to reverse the wounds of slavery, which are deep and still in effect today.  Perhaps older African Americans should get some reparations, but a 25-year-old asking for reparation money is just a beggar.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: AL-B on 02/22/05 at 12:07 am

I think first and foremost, our government owes a formal apology to our black citizens, not only for slavery but for all the Jim Crow B.S. laws that the Southern states had in effect for so long. (I could be wrong, but to my knowledge our government has never apologized for any of these injustices.) As far as reparations go, I'm not in favor of cash settlements. This may soothe some feelings over the short term, but I think a better way to go about it would be to start some kind of economic stimulus program (tax credits and small business loans) to help African-Americans start their own small businesses and create more jobs in the inner cities.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 12:07 am


Wow I sure offended you :(  I'm very sorry, Tanya, and I hope you can accept my apology.  I just wrote a post about kissing dead guy's a*ses too much also, just to let you know.  ;)  I'm just tired about people acting like if you suffer or are descended from one who suffer you're automatically a better person. Hitler died, does that make him any less a scumbag?
Jimmy Carter's pretty old, does that make his charity work any less honorable?

As for "reverse racism", I guess I'm more talking about how "ill" African Americans are and how "wack" white people and their music are.  And I love rap and not just the Beastie Boys. This topic hits me a lot because a street right next to me was changed to MLK.  Come on, it's not going to reverse the wounds of slavery, which are deep and still in effect today.  Perhaps older African Americans should get some reparations, but a 25-year-old asking for reparation money is just a beggar.


I accept it of course, FullHouse!  :-*  Imagine growing up in a neighborhood where the streets were named after individuals that didn't give a rat's ass about you. I did, but I didn't let it bother me at all. I think by naming the street "MLK" is a lot better than calling it by some dead president's moniker who held slaves, but stood behind freedom and democracy. I see it as a positive and I think you will someday, too.

I don't know of any younger individuals asking for anything b/c of the agreement that it wouldn't do any good. It would be a like an abusive husband buying his battered wife a dozen roses after breaking her ribs. Does it take away the pain? Hell no. So, it's a dead issue b/c of the younger generation telling the old that it would be of no true necessity.

You may have some individuals that feel whites are "wack", but they are INDIVIDUALS. They don't speak for all of us. I know some cool whites (including on this site). I can't group them with others at all. Take life on a case by case basis and it will get easier.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/22/05 at 12:12 am


I think first and foremost, our government owes a formal apology to our black citizens, not only for slavery but for all the Jim Crow B.S. laws that the Southern states had in effect for so long. (I could be wrong, but to my knowledge this has never happened.) As far as reparations go, I'm not in favor of cash settlements. This may soothe some feelings over the short term, but I think a better way to go about it would be to start some kind of economic stimulus program (tax credits and small business loans) to help African-Americans start their own small businesses and create more jobs in the inner cities.


I agree :)


I accept it of course, FullHouse!  :-*  Imagine growing up in a neighborhood where the streets were named after individuals that didn't give a rat's a** about you. I did, but I didn't let it bother me at all. I think by naming the street "MLK" is a lot better than calling it by some dead president's moniker who held slaves, but stood behind freedom and democracy. I see it as a positive and I think you will someday, too.

I don't know of any younger individuals asking for anything b/c of the agreement that it wouldn't do any good. It would be a like an abusive husband buying his battered wife a dozen roses after breaking her ribs. Does it take away the pain? Hell no. So, it's a dead issue b/c of the younger generation telling the old that it would be of no true necessity.

You may have some individuals that feel whites are "wack", but they are INDIVIDUALS. They don't speak for all of us. I know some cool whites (including on this site). I can't group them with others at all. Take life on a case by case basis and it will get easier.

Tanya



Thanks for accepting my apology :)  I think naming streets after dead guys is as bad or worse anyways.

I guess I was being a tad stereotypical; my post was full of emotion.

-FHF :)

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/22/05 at 12:12 am


While I'm not for reparations b/c there's not an amount to truly cover what I would really want, you do sound like a racist whatever. You're saying I should feel compensated b/c I get a month (while you get a year of history that's truly debatable), everything's named after MLK (and it's not - I could name more things named after Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, and other white MALES, not females (which is a shame in itself)), and people listen to African-American influenced music? No one's better than anyone (and no one has said that, but you).

The topic is old and hasn't even been brought up lately. BTW, how do you feel about the Japanese and Jewish descendants who received reparations. I guess you really didn't know about that, did you?

There's also a difference between reverse discrimation/prejudice and reverse racism. Racism is a system of power based on race, which a perceived majority feels they have rights over other groups. In this country, the group that is best served by this system are whites. To go even further white males. Education, Law, Business and other major arenas can be affected by this system. Discrimination is the act of making prejudicing actions, such as saying biased things against another group or setting up a "neighborhood group" to disallow a family to move in next door to you.

Since I've laid down the difference of the two, can you honestly tell me there's reverse racism? Fullhouse, when was the last time you were told that you were basically a quota and could not study at a particular school? Did you lose any family members to lynching or beatings? Reverse discrimination does exist, but not the other. What I'm saying is if you're going to bring an issue up, understand the facts first.

BTW, FULL House, the next time I hear anything about Elvis or John Wayne, I'll make sure I'll puke.

Tanya


Tanya, reverse racism does exist somewhat. It's not that bad but it's out there. Though I don't agree with full house that it's a problem that things are named after MLK, he was a great man and deserves that honor.  I could care less if someone's black, white or whatever. But that doesn't mean it's my fault for the wrongs whites have done in the past to blacks. We have to look forward not back, it's the past and it's done and over with. It's sad that it took so long to get where we are today, but I blame the ignorant conservatives of the past who just wouldn't accept blacks.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/22/05 at 12:17 am


Tanya, reverse racism does exist somewhat. It's not that bad but it's out there. Though I don't agree with full house that it's a problem that things are named after MLK, he was a great man and deserves that honor.  I could care less if someone's black, white or whatever. But that doesn't mean it's my fault for the wrongs whites have done in the past to blacks. We have to look forward not back, it's the past and it's done and over with. It's sad that it took so long to get where we are today, but I blame the ignorant conservatives of the past who just wouldn't accept blacks.


True about MLK.  I'm just tired of people wanting to "make things even" to events that happened many many years ago. I do think that poor black communities should get support, and I'm cool with some MLK Streets  8), but come on does every other street?

Reverse racism isn't a huge problem, it's just a peeve of mine and really degrades the individuals who do it.

Taken to the extreme, the "making it up" attitude can be used to justify bombing Tokyo or Munich because of the war crimes of WW2.  But the members here are insightful on the subject  8)

-FHF  ;)

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 12:30 am


Tanya, reverse racism does exist somewhat. It's not that bad but it's out there.


Where? I'd like to know. Not being sarcastic or anything, I just want to know where?

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/22/05 at 12:39 am


Where? I'd like to know. Not being sarcastic or anything, I just want to know where?

Tanya


Well one example was when I was in this one chat room, and this one girl ims me, first thing she asks is are you white? I said yea, then she's like see ya white boy. And all the use of the words honkey and cracker, too me that's the same thing as the n word. It's racist and offensive. The bottom line is that there are some black people who just don't really like white people, of course some whites feel the same about blacks. Personally, I don't like any kind of racism whether it comes from whites or blacks.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 12:02 pm


Well one example was when I was in this one chat room, and this one girl ims me, first thing she asks is are you white? I said yea, then she's like see ya white boy. And all the use of the words honkey and cracker, too me that's the same thing as the n word. It's racist and offensive. The bottom line is that there are some black people who just don't really like white people, of course some whites feel the same about blacks. Personally, I don't like any kind of racism whether it comes from whites or blacks.


That's discrimation, not racism. She/he cannot keep you from getting property where you desire or prevent equal living to you. Racism is a larger system. Discrimation tends to stem from smaller groups or just individuals. While I understand how you may have been hurt, I've never heard of someone dying after being called one of those offensive words. Just like the "n" word, other people of color (e.g. Asians, Latinos, Native Americans) have experienced racial epithets that are followed with violence.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/22/05 at 12:05 pm


That's discrimation, not racism. She/he cannot keep you from getting property where you desire or prevent equal living to you. Racism is a larger system. Discrimation tends to stem from smaller groups or just individuals. While I understand how you may have been hurt, I've never heard of someone dying after being called one of those offensive words. Just like the "n" word, other people of color (e.g. Asians, Latinos, Native Americans) have experienced racial epithets that are followed with violence.

Tanya


Yea I understand the difference there. I guess racism isn't the right word to use then, and reverse discrimination is a better word. I don't really think it's a huge problem at all, but it's out there.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 1:38 pm

The funny thing is some media outlets (Fox News is the greatest supplier of the crap) add unneccessary fuel to the "reverse discrimation" fire by saying that if a white person doesn't automatically get a job or a spot in college, it's reverse discrimation. It could simply be that the person wasn't qualified for the particular job or college. Since when is it automatic that a white person gains a spot? Could it be that someone regardless of race or gender is just better at a gig than someone who decades ago would automatically get it?

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 1:44 pm


What exactly is the purpose in raising a potentially inflammatory issue like this in a context such as this?  To give people a reason to justify their bigotry?  "I have nothing against black people but..."  "Oh, I'm not racist or anything, but..."  "I treat all people the same, but..."

Of course, there are segments of the population raising the issue of reparations, but why would a few people create such a 'concern' about it?  Most of the few serious intellectuals who are thoughtfully examining the issue admit they have NO idea WHAT form these reparations might take, BY whom they should be 'paid', and TO whom they should accrue.

Besides which, NONE of the people seriously examining this issue is in a position to make policy anyway, so what exactly is the alarm?

How many black people have you ever discussed this idea with?  Too many people get their ideas of "Black America" from the evening news' latest Al Sharpton soundbite.  How many black people do you actually know?


For one, I know myself, my family, my hubby, some of my girlfriends, my in-laws, I could go on and on. Could it be that I am one?

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Leo Jay on 02/22/05 at 2:12 pm

Hah.  Not directed at anyone specifically. 

It's just ridiculous that we always think we're all so 'openminded' when we often know few if any people of other cultures.  The reality is that when we don't know many people of other cultures, they're usually a Jew/Black/White/Arab/Moslem/Asian first and a human being second.  So, no we DON'T treat them the same, no matter how much we like to delude ourselves into thinking we're not bigoted or racist or whatever label we like to attach to it.  We need to wake up from that self-congratulatory delusion, people -- we're all racist, sexist, bigoted.  The sooner that people of conscience and good intent can be mature enough to recognize that and take responsibility for how our biases shortchange people of the right to be judged as individuals, the better off society will be.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/22/05 at 2:24 pm


Hah.  Not directed at anyone specifically. 

It's just ridiculous that we always think we're all so 'openminded' when we often know few if any people of other cultures.  The reality is that when we don't know many people of other cultures, they're usually a Jew/Black/White/Arab/Moslem/Asian first and a human being second.  So, no we DON'T treat them the same, no matter how much we like to delude ourselves into thinking we're not bigoted or racist or whatever label we like to attach to it.  We need to wake up from that self-congratulatory delusion, people -- we're all racist, sexist, bigoted.  The sooner that people of conscience and good intent can be mature enough to recognize that and take responsibility for how our biases shortchange people of the right to be judged as individuals, the better off society will be.


Okay.  I'll confess it: the media has implanted racist undertones in me.  But I don't act on it and it's not really my fault.  I respect all people :)

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/22/05 at 2:30 pm


Hah.  Not directed at anyone specifically. 

It's just ridiculous that we always think we're all so 'openminded' when we often know few if any people of other cultures.  The reality is that when we don't know many people of other cultures, they're usually a Jew/Black/White/Arab/Moslem/Asian first and a human being second.  So, no we DON'T treat them the same, no matter how much we like to delude ourselves into thinking we're not bigoted or racist or whatever label we like to attach to it.  We need to wake up from that self-congratulatory delusion, people -- we're all racist, sexist, bigoted.  The sooner that people of conscience and good intent can be mature enough to recognize that and take responsibility for how our biases shortchange people of the right to be judged as individuals, the better off society will be.


I see what you are saying. It's natural to be biased sometimes, however some bias aren't natural and are otherwise implanted by society (e.g. racial, sexual/gender).

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/22/05 at 2:38 pm


You acted on it, when you started this thread, dude.


Perhaps, I guess.  I guess I'm just tired of all this PC garbage.  I support equal rights, I just don't like the idea of special rights.  It's nearly as wrong as where we began.  And I'm not just talking African Americans.  Dead People, Native Americans, white people, whatever.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: McDonald on 02/22/05 at 2:43 pm

Yeah, I never really saw this as a real issue, mainly because of the unlikelyhood that it would ever occur here. No one living today had anything to do with African slavery, therefore no one is responsible or a victim thereof. No one deserves money to be paid by or to them for it. Now I do recognise the social issues within the African-American community that are products of 400 years of opresseion at the hands of some Whites, which is why I wholeheartedly support programmes like Affirmative Action. However, being a first generation American on one side and a second generation on the other... my people and I had nothing to do with this, and I don't deserve to have to pay the bill.

I'm Irish and Scottish... My dad's grandmother spoke Gaelic. Gaelic-speaking peoples had some serious problems of our own to deal with during these times. Not that I'm attempting a comparison, but all I'm saying is I think it would be silly to be given reparations from the English all these years later. Would it not be?

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/23/05 at 11:49 am


I also say no.  The reparations that were given to the Japanese & Jews were paid to those people who were involved in the "incidents" (for lack of a better term).  The time to make any monetary payment was when the slaves were still alive.


Some had actually gone to family members b/c of some deceased individuals. At that point, I don't think it should've been given out.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: RockandRollFan on 02/23/05 at 3:44 pm


True about MLK.  I'm just tired of people wanting to "make things even" to events that happened many many years ago. I do think that poor black communities should get support, and I'm cool with some MLK Streets  8), but come on does every other street?

Reverse racism isn't a huge problem, it's just a peeve of mine and really degrades the individuals who do it.

Taken to the extreme, the "making it up" attitude can be used to justify bombing Tokyo or Munich because of the war crimes of WW2.  But the members here are insightful on the subject  8)

-FHF  ;)
Reverse racism indeed does exist. While I agree that slavery and discrimination are horrible, I took no part in it and never supported it in any form. If I have any one group that I discriminate against it's the KKK. They're nothing but a bunch of losers wearing form fitted pointy hats. I find it odd that when they introduce thier wife and sister, there's always just ONE woman standing there!

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/23/05 at 5:00 pm


Reverse racism indeed does exist. While I agree that slavery and discrimination are horrible, I took no part in it and never supported it in any form. If I have any one group that I discriminate against it's the KKK. They're nothing but a bunch of losers wearing form fitted pointy hats. I find it odd that when they introduce thier wife and sister, there's always just ONE woman standing there!


Amen to that!  I hope they all get their karma!

-FHF  ;) 

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/23/05 at 11:36 pm


Reverse racism indeed does exist. While I agree that slavery and discrimination are horrible, I took no part in it and never supported it in any form. If I have any one group that I discriminate against it's the KKK. They're nothing but a bunch of losers wearing form fitted pointy hats. I find it odd that when they introduce thier wife and sister, there's always just ONE woman standing there!


Darn right Rockandrollfan, I can't believe a group like the KKK still exists today in 2005. They need to pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's not the 19th century. They had a rally here in Cleveland a few years back that was very controversial, but it still occurred. Truly a sick bunch of individuals.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/24/05 at 1:29 am


And, their karma just happens to be a minority inmate nicknamed Bubba :P


;D

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: McDonald on 02/24/05 at 2:17 pm


Darn right Rockandrollfan, I can't believe a group like the KKK still exists today in 2005. They need to pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's not the 19th century. They had a rally here in Cleveland a few years back that was very controversial, but it still occurred. Truly a sick bunch of individuals.


While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: RockandRollFan on 02/24/05 at 2:20 pm


While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.
They had a "Peacefull" rally in Denver back in the 90's and while I agree that people have a right to expression...all they express is Hatred for another race, and THAT is just wrong >:(

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: RockandRollFan on 02/24/05 at 2:22 pm


And, their karma just happens to be a minority inmate nicknamed Bubba :P
;D Love it, crazymom ;)

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Alchoholica on 02/24/05 at 2:29 pm

A scene that i thought was fantastic and i wish i had a picture of was a bunch of KKK Nut jobs parading down this city street, a man threw something at one of them (from the crowd) and the KKK Nut decided he should throw a punch. A Black Police officer stopped him and escorted him away. Dosen't sound amazing but i loved it.. it was like.. come on now Jimmy Joe Jr, stop acting like a twat.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Full_House_Fan on 02/24/05 at 5:45 pm


;D Love it, crazymom ;)


Seriously, I don't think I wish rape upon KKK guys, but I wouldn't care much if they were either.  They're about the scummiest people there are.  >:( 

I think they should all be put on a deserted island.  You know, Survivor only with scumbags who are living a prison sentence.  The prize for winning: soap on a rope  ;D 

-FHF

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Alchoholica on 02/24/05 at 5:48 pm


The prize for winning: soap on a rope  ;D 



;D LMAO!

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: bbigd04 on 02/24/05 at 5:48 pm


While I think their beliefs and actions are reprehensible, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to believe any way they want... and as long as it was a peaceful demonstration, then they have the right to demonstrate even if we stand aghast at their message.


Yea, they have the right to express their views, and I have the right to express mine, they are a screwed up group of idiots.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 02/24/05 at 7:22 pm


I also say no.  The reparations that were given to the Japanese & Jews were paid to those people who were involved in the "incidents" (for lack of a better term).  The time to make any monetary payment was when the slaves were still alive.

That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 
Lani Guinnire (sp?) at Harvard made a stink about African Africans getting affirmative action when their ancestors were not American slaves. 
::)
Well, how do you know, lady?  That 19 year-old from West Africa might have had ancestors who were seized by slave traders.  There is also the question of who is truly African American.  If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.
There are a dozen other complicating factors when it comes to American slave reparations.  Slavery and racism are atrocious legacies running too deep and too long to be absolved by one act of contrition.
Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 

 

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/24/05 at 8:43 pm


That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 

Well, how do you know, lady?  That 19 year-old from West Africa might have had ancestors who were seized by slave traders.  There is also the question of who is truly African American.  If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.


I know many grandchildren of slaves (including members of my family as well as my husband's). You forget that African-Americans were born into slavery sometimes. A lot of children at the age of five had to work the fields along with the adults. They became free in their adult lives, had children, and hence had grandchildren. As for the 1/4 black equation, all you needed was at least two black grandparent on at least one side of your family. You're referring to 1/8 (octoroons).

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: danootaandme on 02/25/05 at 8:35 am


That's the key to the entire problem nobody who was enslaved while slavery was legal is alive today.  Not even their grandchildren are alive.  Then you've got the question of who actually qualifies as a descendent deserving of reparations. 
If you are 1/4 black, it means the majority of your ancestors were NOT black.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you say it doesn't matter even if you are only 1/32 black because that's all it took to BE considered black and duly enslaved or oppressed?  That's going to be a tough sell.
Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 


My mother is still alive, granddaughter of slaves.  So there are a few, but like the WWI vet, few and far between.  Her grandparents had the foresight to leave the south when reconstruction crumbled.  There, of course was that one drop law which said if you had one drop of Negro blood, you were Negro.  So in the interest of bringing the country together I say we offer reparations to all those who can prove they have that one drop, and see how many KKK robes start rolling up the sleeves to take the DNA test that will give them a check in the mail?  All of the sudden we will all be kissin cousins,MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: McDonald on 02/25/05 at 11:56 am


Yea, they have the right to express their views, and I have the right to express mine, they are a screwed up group of idiots.


I agree with that wholly.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Leo Jay on 02/25/05 at 12:06 pm

I don't think hate is really all that hard to understand -- it seems to me that the line between rationalizing your hate and rising above it is pretty thin.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: AL-B on 02/25/05 at 6:32 pm


Even if the U.S. treasury cut a check to every single African American, it wouldn't resolve the perpeutal prejudice in American culture.  In fact, payment of reparations may only serve to rattle the redneck cage and further divide the "races." 
That's probably my biggest argument as well against reparations in the form of lump payments. This would indeed do little more than unnecessarily escalate racial tensions. And I can understand why some whites would feel resentful about this. I could easily make the argument that my tax dollars shouldn't have to go towards reparations, since my great-grandparents didn't get off the boat until 1901, so why should I have to pay for something that even my ancestors weren't responsible for? I mean what next? Are they gonna start requiring you to submit a geneological chart along with your 1040 so that the I.R.S. can adjust your tax rate based on how big of an @sshole your great-great-great grandfather was?
    As I said in an eariler post, I would be in favor of some kind of economic stimulus program (low-interest small business loans and tax credits) for our inner cities.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/26/05 at 1:53 am

No, you're not responsible for the past. However, if you think about it, you benefitted from the system created by such past practices.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: AL-B on 02/26/05 at 4:43 am


No, you're not responsible for the past. However, if you think about it, you benefitted from the system created by such past practices.

Tanya
You're right. But there's nothing we can do to change what happened in the past. What we need to do is to work together and try to correct what is wrong today. But before that can happen, the very first thing we need to do is to wake up and realize that most of our racial differences are being deliberately blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, which is controlled by the elite that runs this country, who has a vested interest in keeping us at each others' throats. Until we can see past that, we won't get anywhere.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/26/05 at 11:41 am


You're right. But there's nothing we can do to change what happened in the past. What we need to do is to work together and try to correct what is wrong today. But before that can happen, the very first thing we need to do is to wake up and realize that most of our racial differences are being deliberately blown way out of proportion by the mainstream media, which is controlled by the elite that runs this country, who has a vested interest in keeping us at each others' throats. Until we can see past that, we won't get anywhere.


Very true.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Don Carlos on 02/26/05 at 2:51 pm

I didn't vote because reparations aren't for "racism" but for years of uncompensated labor, the sale of family members, untold whippings and the like.  I favor reparations, but NOT from any tax supported fund.  Rather, the companies and estates that profited from slavery and the slave trade (which continued long after it was banned by the Constitution - 1808) should be made to pay, just as Krupp, I.G.Farben, VW etc, have been made to pay reparations to holicost victims and their decendants.

Had the Radical Republicans who controlled Congress (the ones wqho impeached Andrew Johnson) had the guts to give every slave family 40 acres and a mule after the war, by confiscating plantations, that would have been compensation.  But, like their modern counterparts, they were more in favor of the rights of property than in justice.

The statute of limitations covers lots of crimes.  It does not apply to murder.  Should it apply to genocide?  Should it apply to the equally horrendous crimes committed by slave owners and their "willin for the shillin" accomplices?

I was raised Catholic, and taught that only through penance could I be forgiven my sins.I think that also applies to the white/black relationship.

In one speach MLK compared black people to someone who was wrongfully convicted of a crime.  Upon release he is given cloths, shoes, money, a chance for a new start.  This man youo can tell to pull himself up by his boot straps.  What did former slaves get?  NOTHING, certainly no boots, and no straps.  Yet this nation achieved the development it did based on the extermination of one race, and the enslavement of another.

  Let those who porfited pay

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 02/26/05 at 6:16 pm


My mother is still alive, granddaughter of slaves.  So there are a few, but like the WWI vet, few and far between.  Her grandparents had the foresight to leave the south when reconstruction crumbled.  There, of course was that one drop law which said if you had one drop of Negro blood, you were Negro.  So in the interest of bringing the country together I say we offer reparations to all those who can prove they have that one drop, and see how many KKK robes start rolling up the sleeves to take the DNA test that will give them a check in the mail?  All of the sudden we will all be kissin cousins,MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING

So sayeth Cyndi Lauper!
:)

Yes, I realized after I posted that there would be many people alive whose grandparents have been born into slavery.  However, they were most likely born into slavery, early 1860s.  The grandchildren themselves would also be quite advanced in age.
But that reminds me of another question about reparations.  After the Northern occupation of the Reconstruction went home came the era of Jim Crow.  In some ways, African Americans were abused worse under Jim Crow (I am not saying slavery was better).  If African Americans deserve reparations for slavery, the certainly deserve it for Jim Crow.  After all, Jim Crow was one long terrorist institution designed to deprive Blacks of the rights they were granted by Constitutional amendment.  Now that's what I call "judicial activism" and Conservatives weren't whining about it then!
There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and indidual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and
African Americans in the 19th century.
Like I said, the issue gets impossibly complicated as white America's atrocious treatment of the descendents of Africa has been ongoing for 400 years.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: danootaandme on 02/27/05 at 9:11 am




There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and individual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and African Americans in the 19th century.



I do agree that reparations for slavery is a far-fetched idea, as is going back to insurance companies because
they were involved in insuring slaves as property.  But as you say Jim Crow was(and in many ways is) alive
and well, the consequences almost as devastating.  The remedy for all this is as simple.  Voting rights, , education, equity in opportunities for jobs, investment in small businesses.  The programs are in place, they just have to be funded, and/or utilized.  We must not pretend that discrimination doesn't exist, or that affirmative action is a way for non-qualified African-Americans takes jobs away from qualified whites.  I hear that and by blood boils.  I, for one, am sick of police, firefighters, complain about not getting the job that they thought they could walk into because the fathers, uncles, cousins, father in laws, etc, walked into them.  They were hired on the basis of family, not qualifications, and figured that was okay.  Now they are whining about qualifications. Get over it. There are many unqualified whites in these positions solely on the basis of
familial ties. Jumping up and down and saying affirmative action gives jobs to unqualified African Americans cannot hold water unless you jump up and down about the same jobs going to unqualified Caucasians.  In the same way you cannot be upset about affirmative action on college campuses when georgie bush entered Harvard without the necessary credentials.  I don't see anyone suing the wealthy because their unqualified legacy placements took their place in school.  Until I do I cannot take the wimpy whining about qualifications seriously.  I will also add that almost every job I have had is thanks to affirmative action, and I have been qualified for all of them.  The reality is that without affirmative action qualifications did not matter, your color disqualified you.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Tanya1976 on 02/27/05 at 1:39 pm


So sayeth Cyndi Lauper!
:)

Yes, I realized after I posted that there would be many people alive whose grandparents have been born into slavery.  However, they were most likely born into slavery, early 1860s.  The grandchildren themselves would also be quite advanced in age.
But that reminds me of another question about reparations.  After the Northern occupation of the Reconstruction went home came the era of Jim Crow.  In some ways, African Americans were abused worse under Jim Crow (I am not saying slavery was better).  If African Americans deserve reparations for slavery, the certainly deserve it for Jim Crow.  After all, Jim Crow was one long terrorist institution designed to deprive Blacks of the rights they were granted by Constitutional amendment.  Now that's what I call "judicial activism" and Conservatives weren't whining about it then!
There are millions of Jim Crow survivors alive today.  Now,the major pieces of civil rights legislation were passed in the early 1960s.  I can't count how many times the collective and indidual civil rights of African Americans have been violated since then!  If reparations are warrented for Constitutional rights violations during Jim Crow, they are certainly warranted for civil rights violations post-Jim Crow.  The civil rights laws were passed to enforce the Constitutional rights guaranteed by the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.  These amendments were the post-bellum guarantees of unbonded freedom and equal rights among races.  Thus, violating civil rights today is to violate the compact made between whites and
African Americans in the 19th century.
Like I said, the issue gets impossibly complicated as white America's atrocious treatment of the descendents of Africa has been ongoing for 400 years.



Here, here!

Tanya

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Leo Jay on 02/28/05 at 11:39 am

I tend to think issues like this don't create divisiveness as much as they unconceal it.  Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure.  But I lean towards thinking it's probably better to understand where we're divided on fundamental issues of fairness and equity.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Don Carlos on 03/03/05 at 5:05 pm


But I lean towards thinking it's probably better to understand where we're divided on fundamental issues of fairness and equity.


Well, fairness and equality IS fundamental to this discussion.  Slaves were held captive, beaten, abused, exploited, raped... in this country for 300 years.  Why should their decendants not be compensated for their uncompensated labor, and for the abuses to which they were subjected?  How can we simply dismiss all these generations of abuse and exploitation "just history - live with it"?  My understanding is that Christian are suppose to repent of their sins.  I see little evidance of willingness to do so here.

Subject: Re: Black Reparations

Written By: Leo Jay on 03/03/05 at 5:16 pm


Well, fairness and equality IS fundamental to this discussion.  Slaves were held captive, beaten, abused, exploited, raped... in this country for 300 years.  Why should their decendants not be compensated for their uncompensated labor, and for the abuses to which they were subjected?  How can we simply dismiss all these generations of abuse and exploitation "just history - live with it"?  My understanding is that Christian are suppose to repent of their sins.  I see little evidance of willingness to do so here.


It seems like you're misunderstanding my point, which is simply that it's better to know where people disagree on issues than to not talk about controversial issues.  That's all.  I know it's not provocative, but... sorry.

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