WASHINGTON - Democrats trying to head off the opening of an Alaskan wildlife refuge for oil exploration lost the year's first skirmish Thursday as the Senate Budget Committee voted to clear the way for drilling.

By a 12-10 vote, the Republican-led panel voted to forbid Senate filibusters against legislation later this year allowing drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Filibusters, a procedural delay, require the votes of 60 of the 100 senators to end — a margin that drilling supporters would probably find difficult to achieve.

The vote kept intact language in the $2.56 trillion budget granting the procedural protection to the opening of the reserve, which has pitted economic and environmental interests against each other. Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., who led the effort to strip the provision, said putting it in the budget was "a backdoor maneuver."

Full story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=2&u=/ap/20050310/ap_on_go_pr_wh/budget

The company takes what the company wants, and nothing is as precious as a hole in the ground!
--Midnight Oil
(Blue Sky Mine)

"Did you know (I didn't, until yesterday) that the small section of the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge where some want to drill for oil was actually set aside for that specific purpose when ANWR was established!  That's right!  All we're talking about here is drilling for oil on a section ... a very small section ... of ANWR that was designated for oil exploration from the very beginning!  What's the problem here?  Do you want to see the price of crude oil, and thus the price of gas at the pump, dive for the floor overnight?  Just let the congress go ahead and authorize the exploration in ANWR.  The Oil Sheiks will immediately lower their prices in order to forestall a rapid implementation of any exploration or oil recovery that could cut into their market share." -Neal Boortz

The fact that it would immediatly drive down oil prices, the fact that oil fell today by over a dollar on just pure thought that we would drill in ANWR, the fact that there are an estimated 6 to 16 billion barrels of oil, the fact it would create jobs, and the fact that it is supported by 70% of the residents of the state of Alaska; drilling in ANWR makes perfect sense to anyone who approachs the issue with an open mind.

This is implying to me that the quest for oil is getting rather desperate.

Ridiculous  >:( 

I don't really think it's necessary right now to start drilling, and we should really think about what we're doing before we go in and start.

I don't really think it's necessary right now to start drilling, and we should really think about what we're doing before we go in and start.


Exactly. I guess it's possible they'll do it "right" but I doubt they will.

Exactly. I guess it's possible they'll do it "right" but I doubt they will.


That's how the GOP operates, make something look like a huge problem when it really isn't (Iraq, Social Security).

That's how the GOP operates, make something look like a huge problem when it really isn't (Iraq, Social Security).


Yeah, the Dems suck about 70% as much now though.  I mean John Kerry was the best they could get.  Honestly I'd rather have Howard Dean.  We need somebody like Kennedy in office.

Yeah, the Dems suck about 70% as much now though.  I mean John Kerry was the best they could get.  Honestly I'd rather have Howard Dean.  We need somebody like Kennedy in office.


I think they should have nominated Dean over Kerry as well, Kerry was too boring and it seemed like he just reading from a book everytime you saw him speak, we all know Bush doesn't read from a book, well except my pet goat maybe, because he doesn't really know how to read.  ;D

I think they should have nominated Dean over Kerry as well, Kerry was too boring and it seemed like he just reading from a book everytime you saw him speak, we all know Bush doesn't read from a book, well except my pet goat maybe, because he doesn't really know how to read.  ;D


;D


Kerry was too much of a suck-up to the Republicans anyway.

I'll admit I'm not all that well-versed on this subject, but I don't understand why people are getting so worked up about drilling in Alaska.  I mean, why is it such a big deal? It's not like caribou and elk and mooses and bears are going to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth because of a few oil rigs. These are tough creatures that have adapted over time to survive the harsh Alaskan winters and I fail to see how even a large-scale drilling effort is going to affect them all that much.
    I've checked out pro-drilling sites that say there's an estimated 10 billion barrels of oil underneath ANWR, and the anti-drilling sites say there's only enough oil there to last a few months. I don't know which side is telling the truth, but I am inclined to believe that there is more credence to the pro-drillers, because why would they go through all that trouble to open ANWR for drilling if there's only a few month's supply of oil there? If there indeed is a vast supply of oil there then I say go for it.

This has bad idea written all over it.  >:(

I've checked out pro-drilling sites that say there's an estimated 10 billion barrels of oil underneath ANWR, and the anti-drilling sites say there's only enough oil there to last a few months. I don't know which side is telling the truth, but I am inclined to believe that there is more credence to the pro-drillers, because why would they go through all that trouble to open ANWR for drilling if there's only a few month's supply of oil there? If there indeed is a vast supply of oil there then I say go for it.


According to the estimates there is a 95% chance that there is at least 6 billion barrels of oil and a 5% chance there is as much as 16 billion barrels of oil.  So all the estimates put it between 6 and 16 billion barrels, which would bring down oil if released slowly for years and years.

According to the estimates there is a 95% chance that there is at least 6 billion barrels of oil and a 5% chance there is as much as 16 billion barrels of oil.  So all the estimates put it between 6 and 16 billion barrels, which would bring down oil if released slowly for years and years.


strange then, that the major oil companies aren't jumping all over themselves to drill up there then?  That's a lot of oil.

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/editorials/article/0,1713,BDC_2489_3570819,00.html

It's been more than two years since BP, the world's third-largest oil company, withdrew its support from Arctic Power, a lobbying group leading the charge to open ANWR. ChevronTexaco pulled out of Arctic Power in 2000. ConocoPhillips followed suit last year. ExxonMobil, meanwhile, continues to support the lobbying effort financially, though its public enthusiasm is tepid.
...

nterior Secretary Gale Norton is busy repeating familiar ANWR propaganda points. She falsely claims that drilling will affect only 0.01 percent of the refuge. And she dubiously contends that ANWR contains 10.4 billion barrels of oil. (At peak production, such a reserve might satisfy about 4 percent of America's demand, an amount that could be offset by imposing higher mileage standards for cars.)

As The New York Times reported this week, oil companies don't seem to believe Norton's projections. The Times quoted an unnamed Bush adviser as saying the oil companies wouldn't take ANWR leases if they were free.

Much is unknown about the oil that might exist under the refuge. Only one exploratory well has been drilled there, in the 1980s. The results were never shared with the federal government and are known only to the oil companies that did the test: ChevronTexaco and BP. Those are the first two oil companies to pull out of the lobbying group.


So we have an area with little to no exploration to determine the size of the oil reserves, and a bunch of oil companies with zero interest in even paying for the rights to drill there.  Sounds like an excellent idea.  There will of course be no environmental impact, because we know the oil companies would never do anything unethical, or make any major mistakes while drilling/exporting the oil.

According to the estimates there is a 95% chance that there is at least 6 billion barrels of oil and a 5% chance there is as much as 16 billion barrels of oil.  So all the estimates put it between 6 and 16 billion barrels, which would bring down oil if released slowly for years and years.

strange then, that the major oil companies aren't jumping all over themselves to drill up there then? That's a lot of oil.

So we have an area with little to no exploration to determine the size of the oil reserves, and a bunch of oil companies with zero interest in even paying for the rights to drill there. Sounds like an excellent idea. There will of course be no environmental impact, because we know the oil companies would never do anything unethical, or make any major mistakes while drilling/exporting the oil.
As I said earlier, I don't know who I should believe on this issue, but if there is a vast reserve of oil up there, I say go for it.

As I said earlier, I don't know who I should believe on this issue, but if there is a vast reserve of oil up there, I say go for it.


I'd just love to know who the "experts" are that GW quotes.  Beaurocrats and talk show pundits, or oil companies?  Normally I wouldn't trust either, but if it's only the politicans, I'd have to wonder.

Going through today's articles, I see Canada is asking us not to drill in ANWR...which basically means we should.  I was also surprised to find out that congress voted for drilling back in, I think, 1996 (I don't remember) but was vetoed by then President Clinton.  That won't happen again.  All we need is 51 senate votes and the democrats can't filibuster, so it's a done deal.

At best, drilling for oil gives us stall time with a finite petroleum supply and let's us put off prioritizing renewable fuel sources for a while.
ANWR drilling might help us save a couple bucks at the gas pumps, which I wouldn't complain much about.  However, it's still staving off the inevitable crisis.

but if there is a vast reserve of oil up there, I say go for it.


Let's put it this way, it's the largest untapped oil source in the United States of America.  Not drilling there makes no sense and only increases our need for oil from terrorist nations like Saudi Arabi.

Here is a good article on the arguments against drilling operations in ANWR.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/archive/page.cfm?pageID=780

Let's put it this way, it's the largest untapped oil source in the United States of America.  Not drilling there makes no sense and only increases our need for oil from terrorist nations like Saudi Arabi.


it is? is this from a scientist not on the Bush payroll?  Do we have an independant source for this?  of course not.

Not that it matters if it even is true.  The amount provided even if it lives up to the wet dream amounts pushed by the Bush Administration, wouldn't even amount to 5% of the US demand over the 20 years it would take to extract it all.  5% could be acheived by requiring SUV's to meet higher fuel efficency standards, something the Bush administration has fought against since day one, despite any obvious need for it.

The US Senate just voted 51-49 not to remove the language that allows drilling in ANWR from the budget! We're drilling in ANWR!

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&u=/ap/20050316/ap_on_go_co/arctic_drilling_10&printer=1

The US Senate just voted 51-49 not to remove the language that allows drilling in ANWR from the budget! We're drilling in ANWR!

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&u=/ap/20050316/ap_on_go_co/arctic_drilling_10&printer=1


:\'(

On a side note, GWB, I heard Mt. Kilimanjaro's ice cap just melted.  There goes the only ice in Africa.

You can thank your pal Bush for that.

-DR

:\'(

On a side note, GWB, I heard Mt. Kilimanjaro's ice cap just melted.  There goes the only ice in Africa.

You can thank your pal Bush for that.

-DR

Speaking of Africa, If we go to ANWR, we might go where ANWaR sadat went!

They asked Bush if they could melt the ice cap on Mt. Kilimanjaro, Dubya said, "No, leave the ice there, some of the folks can chip off it for their ice chests on the way to the beach!"
So you see, this wasn't GWB's doing...it was the French!!

This is a victory for the conservatives, in much the same way Iraq was.

They're experts in predicting how much oil is somewhere, remember when Wolfowitz claimed the Iraqi reconstruction would pay for itself with all the oil revenue we'd be able to grab from Iraq?  Last time I checked, it's still costing us plenty, and not returning anything, almost two years after the "Mission Accomplished" moment of the war.  So I'm sure they're right about this too.  The track record should prove it right?

GM and FORD have both crushed out all the electric cars they produced.

The only scientists claiming global warming is not real, happen to be on the Bush payroll. 

yup... I feel like the long term environmental needs are really being met.

Great, now we know who to blame if an enivormental disaster happens there.

Great, now we know who to blame if an enivormental disaster happens there.


Funny, they already drill offshore in Alaska just outside of ANWR and we have seen no problems so far.

Funny, they already drill offshore in Alaska just outside of ANWR and we have seen no problems so far.


yeah, the Exxon Valdez was no big deal either... just a little split oil

as one offshore oil rig worker once said, at night, all water looks black at night anyways, as he dumped a few thousand gallons over the side while working on equipment.

as consumers of oil, i see we have no choice in the matter. oil will be drilled in alaska whether we like it or not. i would like to see how long the world holds out in resisting the resources in the greatest untouched landmass on this planet...antarctica. treaties be damned, there is industry to feed and money to be had.

as consumers of oil, i see we have no choice in the matter. oil will be drilled in alaska whether we like it or not. i would like to see how long the world holds out in resisting the resources in the greatest untouched landmass on this planet...antarctica. treaties be darned, there is industry to feed and money to be had.

Who can stand in the way when there's a dollar to be made?
--Midnight Oil
"Who Can Stand in the Way"

Welllll, from what I read in the morning paper, there are now some doubts about this.  I will start another thread that speaks to the consequences.  I'll call it "Dependsant America?"

yeah, the Exxon Valdez was no big deal either... just a little split oil

as one offshore oil rig worker once said, at night, all water looks black at night anyways, as he dumped a few thousand gallons over the side while working on equipment.


That's what I was thinking of... people tend to forget about the Exxon Valdez accident, when it happen acres of watar was polluted, dozens of animals died, and milliions was spent trying to clean it.

Think of what could happen should an accident happen on land, especially with polar bears, seals, and caribou nearby.  >:(

That's what I was thinking of... people tend to forget about the Exxon Valdez accident, when it happen acres of watar was polluted, dozens of animals died, and milliions was spent trying to clean it.

Think of what could happen should an accident happen on land, especially with polar bears, seals, and caribou nearby.  >:(


They just want money, those Bushies.  They are NOT balancing Clinton's environmental policies, they're swinging it back! And about 51% of America is Pro-Bush.  We truly are becoming a stupid country.

That's what I was thinking of... people tend to forget about the Exxon Valdez accident, when it happen acres of watar was polluted, dozens of animals died, and milliions was spent trying to clean it.

Think of what could happen should an accident happen on land, especially with polar bears, seals, and caribou nearby.  >:(

That's exactly the trouble.  If oil companies can get away with cutting costs in order to boost profits and executive salaries, they will.
The Exxon Valdez was a single-hull tanker. Why?  Because it's cheaper than building double-hulled tankers.  The Valdez was did not have its under water radar turned on.  Why? Because it's cheapter not to run the radar.  So there they were, navigating in a single-hulled oil tanker in shallow Prince William sound without radar.  Captain Hazelwood was drunk and on the nod.  It was a disaster waiting to happen, and sixteen years ago almost to the day, it did.
The costs of drilling in ANWR will be astronomical.  Anybody who thinks Big Oil will spend big bucks for the sake of ecological stewardship doesn't know corporate America.  It'll cost an extravagant fortune just to get operations set up and going.  Every dollar spent beyond that is a dollar that could go to profits. Prince William Sound won't recover from the 1989 spill in our lifetimes, maybe not in grandchildren's lifetimes because of the carelessness of Big Oil.  Why should we trust these clowns in the pristine arctic ecology of ANWR?

Why should we trust these clowns in the pristine arctic ecology of ANWR?


Maybe because 70% of Alaskans (Fox News opinions dynamics) support the drilling?

Listen, my opinion doesn't matter on this.  Only, and I mean ONLY, people of the state of Alaska should have a real say in this.  It's not some coffee-sipper in Manhattans business.  It's not someone in the deep south's business.  It is only the business of the people of the state of Alaska, and they overwhelmingly support drilling.  The US Senate voted for this.  The oil ANWR will produce is enough to satisfy the state of Washington's oil needs for 63 years.  Enough to satisfy the state of New York's oil needs for 34 years.  Enough to satisfy the state of Georgia's oil needs for 54 years.  Enough to satisfy the state of Maryland's oil needs for 100.  Enough oil to satisfy the state of Pennsylvania's oil needs for 39 years.  And enough to satisfy the state of Maine's oil needs for 259 years.  Here are some other facts about drilling in ANWR:

1. Caribou?  They don't care.  The population of the Central Artic caribou herd near the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay has grown an average of 8.5% per year.  The oil exploration operations don't bother them a bit.
2. When ANWR was created in 1980 a section was set aside for oil exploration.  It is that area in which the Senate has approved oil exploration.  Imagine that.  Exploring for oil in a section of ANWR that was set aside for exploring for oil.  Who would have thunk it?
3. If the most optimistic estimates of oil reserves in ANWR turn out to be true, it would be enough to replace 30 years of oil imports from Saudi Arabia.  That is not an insignificant amount of oil.
4. Will oil production from ANWR exceed estimates?  Who knows?  The estimates for Prudhoe Bay were around eight billion barrels of oil.  So far we've extracted 14 billion barrels .. and we're not near through.

Maybe because 70% of Alaskans (Fox News opinions dynamics) support the drilling?
Unfortunately, the indigenous peoples of Alaska have had there two thousand years of sustainable culture stripped away, they were deprived of their folkways and forced to live parasitically upon the rotten flesh the white man choked the north into.  This is a horrible humiliation for one of the planet's hardiest people. they were fed whiskey, made drunk and foolish, and died of disease and malnutrition.  They need money so badly they are willing to sell out their natural heritage.
The Alaskans are desperate enough to give the white man the old college try!

1. Caribou?  They don't care.  The population of the Central Artic caribou herd near the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay has grown an average of 8.5% per year.  The oil exploration operations don't bother them a bit.
You sound like Rush-the-flush--
Limbaugh on ANWR: "The wildlife that lives there wishes it didn't, but it's too stupid to figure out how to move anywhere"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200503170004
2. When ANWR was created in 1980 a section was set aside for oil exploration.  It is that area in which the Senate has approved oil exploration.  Imagine that.  Exploring for oil in a section of ANWR that was set aside for exploring for oil.  Who would have thunk it?
Well, of course the petroleum-industrial complex got its oily fingers into the pie.  However, in the Kucinich Administration, we have a way of dealing with this: "Hey Saudis, Bin-Ladens, Bushes!  Deal's off! Take a hike!"
3. If the most optimistic estimates of oil reserves in ANWR turn out to be true, it would be enough to replace 30 years of oil imports from Saudi Arabia.  That is not an insignificant amount of oil.
4. Will oil production from ANWR exceed estimates?  Who knows?  The estimates for Prudhoe Bay were around eight billion barrels of oil.  So far we've extracted 14 billion barrels .. and we're not near through.

Look that's why we must Just Say No to Oil.  This here ecology is not for sale! Take a hike!  We have to tell the auto companies they have to release their designs for and working models of the solar-powered car.
They even have a prototype for a stellar-powered car, but your fuel efficiency varies greatly according to the Zodiac calendar.

Unfortunately, the indigenous peoples of Alaska have had there two thousand years of sustainable culture stripped away, they were deprived of their folkways and forced to live parasitically upon the rotten flesh the white man choked the north into.  This is a horrible humiliation for one of the planet's hardiest people. they were fed whiskey, made drunk and foolish, and died of disease and malnutrition.  They need money so badly they are willing to sell out their natural heritage.
The Alaskans are desperate enough to give the white man the old college try!


from personal experiance having witnessed aboriginal people deal with white men, they like thier money. in negotiations they'll play the "sacred culture" card and stonewall any offers until they get what they want. in the end the white man gets their industry and the aboriginal gets the money. they've been screwed before by listening to what's been good for them and ended up paying by losing their land and rights, now the indian wants whats good for themselves. i can see very little opposition towards these oil fields coming from the alaskan aboriginals.

I'm sorry but anybody who says we shouldn't drill in ANWR and drives to work in a car, rides a bus, or regularly takes an airplane (like environmental protesters) is a bigger hypocrite then a vegetarian wearing leather shoes.