I don't know, but it seem to me like many, if not most Christians believe in forgiveness only in theory.  That is, vengeance is good and only God needs to forgive people for their wrongs.  Of course that's contradictory to the Bible, but many Christians seem to believe violence is the answer to things. 

Then there's some who do ill, than turn around and ask for forgiveness. After all Earth is only a test.

Me, I think Jesus would spit on the Christians that do think that way.

I don't know, but it seem to me like many, if not most Christians believe in forgiveness only in theory.  That is, vengeance is good and only God needs to forgive people for their wrongs.  Of course that's contradictory to the Bible, but many Christians seem to believe violence is the answer to things. 

Then there's some who do ill, than turn around and ask for forgiveness. After all Earth is only a test.

Me, I think Jesus would spit on the Christians that do think that way.



People who are Christian, are only human, the same as everyone else, make mistakes the same as everyone else, but they turn to god for forgiveness. It don't matter if another human being forgives them as long as God does.

They seem to favor retribution like with the death penalty. "An eye for an eye" is not in the Bible, it is in the Code of Hammurabi. A set of laws for the Babylonians. And Christians didn't like them.

People who are Christian, are only human, the same as everyone else, make mistakes the same as everyone else, but they turn to god for forgiveness. It don't matter if another human being forgives them as long as God does.


i agree.

They seem to favor retribution like with the death penalty. "An eye for an eye" is not in the Bible, it is in the Code of Hammurabi. A set of laws for the Babylonians. And Christians didn't like them.


It most certainly IS in the bible:
Exodus 21:23-25  "And if any mischeif follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

Not if they are Christian Christans.  If they are American evangelical nutjobs they want to see as many people as possible go to hell so there will be more room for their righteous golf carts and SUVs in heaven!

In order to obtain my "forgivenness", the trespasser must first show remorse, apologize, and show true sign of not continuing to trespass.

In order to obtain my "forgivenness", the trespasser must first show remorse, apologize, and show true sign of not continuing to trespass.

That's not what Jesus said, but then again, the King James Bible is liberally biased.  I know from the Republican evan-jelly-beans that Jesus was a superhero ubermensch who cut men in two with giant sabers and had a blood-curdling thirst for revenge against non-believers.  The central message of Christianity unbound by liberal bias is: Every man for himself and kill the poor and the sick. Jesus also said, "Grabbeth as much as you can, howevereth you may, for thine own personal enrichment, nevermindeth the other guy, if he getteth in your way, sue-eth his azz off!"
:D

Brian Damaged wrote:
Stop bashing Christians and religion please!
Don't tell it to me, tell it to the rightwing a-holes who profane the name of Christ with their vulgar, cynical hypocrisy day in, day out.  I love Jesus and what Jesus stood for.  It's the crackpot conservative evangelicals who are perverting the central messages of Christianity with their political grandstanding and lies.  Your problem is with them, not me.

That's not what Jesus said, but then again, the King James Bible is liberally biased.  I know from the Republican evan-jelly-beans that Jesus was a superhero ubermensch who cut men in two with giant sabers and had a blood-curdling thirst for revenge against non-believers.  The central message of Christianity unbound by liberal bias is: Every man for himself and kill the poor and the sick. Jesus also said, "Grabbeth as much as you can, howevereth you may, for thine own personal enrichment, nevermindeth the other guy, if he getteth in your way, sue-eth his azz off!"
:D

Brian Damaged wrote:Don't tell it to me, tell it to the rightwing a-holes who profane the name of Christ with their vulgar, cynical hypocrisy day in, day out.  I love Jesus and what Jesus stood for.  It's the crackpot conservative evangelicals who are perverting the central messages of Christianity with their political grandstanding and lies.  Your problem is with them, not me.


So why are you answering me?

In order to obtain my "forgivenness", the trespasser must first show remorse, apologize, and show true sign of not continuing to trespass.


Lyricboy, that's my standard too. :)  Some, not all, Christians seem to think that isn't enough and that a "sinner is always a sinner and has not the right to change".
Stop bashing Christians and religion please!


I'm sorry.  I'm not bashing all Christians, just the hypocritical ones.  I'm sure you're a good Christian :)

what exactly is forgiveness?

I'll get more than one answer to this, that I know.

Stop bashing Christians and religion please!


I don't see any bashing.

My problem with most Christians (and I am not one) is their "holier than thou" atttitude.  Like most people, I have done things in my life of which I am not proud - I am a falibale human.  But I admit my frialties, and that I don't always l;ive up to my own code of ethics.  Most "christians" that I know also don't, but refuse to admit their failings and act in such a f...ing surerior way that it is disagusting.  I much prefer the Wiccan belief - "do what you will, harm none" - to their "believe as I do or go to hell" attitude.  The principles of Christianity are, in many ways, very beutiful.  I look forward to meeting a Christian who really believes and lives by them without "the attitude".

Does it matter?  Forgiveness is not for the other person's benefit -- it's for your own.

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John:
"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary:
"Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me:
"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John:
"If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the sheesh out of you."

Me:
"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John:
"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me:
"That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary:
"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me:
"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John:
"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me:
"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary:
"Oh yes, all the time..."

Me:
"And has He given you a million dollars?"

John:
"Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me:
"So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary:
"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the sheesh out of you."

Me:
"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John:
"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me:
"Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John:
"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me:
"So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary:
"Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me:
"What's that got to do with Hank?"

John:
"Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me:
"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John:
"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the sheesh of you."

Me:
"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary:
"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me:
"Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John:
"Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me:
"Who's Karl?"

Mary:
"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me:
"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John:
"Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

** From the desk of Karl **

Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the sheesh out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list Himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't use alcohol.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the sheesh out of you.

Me:
"This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary:
"Hank didn't have any paper."

Me:
"I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John:
"Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me:
"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary:
"Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me:
"I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the sheesh out of people just because they're different?"

Mary:
"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me:
"How do you figure that?"

Mary:
"Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me:
"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John:
"No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me:
"But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John:
"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me:
"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary:
"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me:
"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John:
"Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me:
"We do?"

Mary:
"Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me:
"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John:
"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me:
"But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary:
She blushes.

John:
"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me:
"What if I don't have a bun?"

John:
"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me:
"No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary:
She looks positively stricken.

John:
He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me:
"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary:
Sticks her fingers in her ears. "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John:
"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me:
"It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary:
She faints.

John:
He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the sheesh out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.



Thought someone might enjoy that.

Does it matter?  Forgiveness is not for the other person's benefit -- it's for your own.


I can really agree with this.  In a way it goes to the Wiccan 3 - fold rule.  Your deeds will be wisited upon you three fold, both good and evil.  Not sure I buy that completely, but there does seem to be a relationship.  Do good, ot ill and either way, it does seem to come back to you.

Does it matter?  Forgiveness is not for the other person's benefit -- it's for your own.


I think there's 3 reasons to forgive, from most to least:

1. Finding peace in yourself
2. Keeping world order
3. Turning the bad good

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John:
"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary:
"Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's a** with us."

Me:
"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His a**?"

John:
"If you kiss Hank's a**, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the sh** out of you."

Me:
"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John:
"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His a**."

Me:
"That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary:
"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the a**?"

Me:
"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John:
"Then come kiss Hank's a** with us."

Me:
"Do you kiss Hank's a** often?"

Mary:
"Oh yes, all the time..."

Me:
"And has He given you a million dollars?"

John:
"Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me:
"So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary:
"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the sh** out of you."

Me:
"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's a**, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John:
"My mother kissed Hank's a** for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me:
"Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John:
"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me:
"So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary:
"Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me:
"What's that got to do with Hank?"

John:
"Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me:
"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John:
"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's a** He'll kick the sh** of you."

Me:
"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary:
"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me:
"Then how do you kiss His a**?"

John:
"Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His a**. Other times we kiss Karl's a**, and he passes it on."

Me:
"Who's Karl?"

Mary:
"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's a**. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me:
"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His a**, and that Hank would reward you?"

John:
"Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

** From the desk of Karl **

Kiss Hank's a** and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the sh** out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list Himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't use alcohol.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's a** or He'll kick the sh** out of you.

Me:
"This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary:
"Hank didn't have any paper."

Me:
"I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John:
"Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me:
"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary:
"Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me:
"I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the sh** out of people just because they're different?"

Mary:
"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me:
"How do you figure that?"

Mary:
"Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me:
"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John:
"No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me:
"But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John:
"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me:
"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary:
"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me:
"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John:
"Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me:
"We do?"

Mary:
"Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me:
"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John:
"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me:
"But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary:
She blushes.

John:
"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me:
"What if I don't have a bun?"

John:
"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me:
"No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary:
She looks positively stricken.

John:
He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me:
"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary:
Sticks her fingers in her ears. "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John:
"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me:
"It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary:
She faints.

John:
He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the sh** out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's a** for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.



Thought someone might enjoy that.
I enjoyed that immensly.  Thanks for the laugh!

1. Finding peace in yourself
2. Keeping world order
3. Turning the bad good


I agree with 1 and {partially}3, but not 2.

And I'm glad someone enjoyed it, ladybug.

I agree with 1 and {partially}3, but not 2.

And I'm glad someone enjoyed it, ladybug.


Well 2 means that if we had to avenge everything, we wouldn't make it as a race. 3 is only if the offender is willing to change.  1 is obvious.

Whoa, what happened, Devo?

My problem with most Christians (and I am not one) is their "holier than thou" atttitude.  Like most people, I have done things in my life of which I am not proud - I am a falibale human.  But I admit my frialties, and that I don't always l;ive up to my own code of ethics.  Most "christians" that I know also don't, but refuse to admit their failings and act in such a f...ing surerior way that it is disagusting.  I much prefer the Wiccan belief - "do what you will, harm none" - to their "believe as I do or go to hell" attitude.  The principles of Christianity are, in many ways, very beutiful.  I look forward to meeting a Christian who really believes and lives by them without "the attitude".


well Carlos, you have just met one, I am Chriatian and I beleive that there is not one perfect person on earth, we are all human and all humans make mistakes, My way of life is "Live and let live" I don't tell anyone else how to live or run their lives. I beleive in the Lord but I won't push others to do the same.

Brian Damaged wrote:Don't tell it to me, tell it to the rightwing a-holes who profane the name of Christ with their vulgar, cynical hypocrisy day in, day out.  I love Jesus and what Jesus stood for.  It's the crackpot conservative evangelicals who are perverting the central messages of Christianity with their political grandstanding and lies.  Your problem is with them, not me.


Maxwell, where do you get that Christian = Conservative?

Maybe it's a difference in parts of the country?  Here in CA we have a large hispanic population, most of which are some form of Christian, and also happen to be Democrats.

I am conservative but not really religious at all. (I believe in God, but don't follow any religion)

I see many Jewish supporting Bush (although for obvious reasons).

I don't quite see how you're making that connection.

I say "Live and let die!"  :D

Violence for violence's sake doesn't solve anything.

Violence for violence's sake doesn't solve anything.


violence for any reason doesn't solve anything

violence for any reason doesn't solve anything


Then why is man constantly waging war to solve his problems?

And does not killing an evil person resolve something by ending said person's evils?

Then why is man constantly waging war to solve his problems?

And does not killing an evil person resolve something by ending said person's evils?



not really sure why, people always want to go to war,


If you kill an evil person,(a murderer for example) it may stop him from killing again but nothing is resolved because killing him will not bring the victims back

If you kill an evil person,(a murderer for example) it may stop him from killing again but nothing is resolved because killing him will not bring the victims back


What if their death ends a living person's torture? No one has died, but one person is in pain from being hurt. Their death will end the torture, hence resolving pain.

What if their death ends a living person's torture? No one has died, but one person is in pain from being hurt. Their death will end the torture, hence resolving pain.


It still won't undo the hurt, and If that person was being beaten, they would still have alot of emotional pain to live with.

It still won't undo the hurt, and If that person was being beaten, they would still have alot of emotional pain to live with.


Yeah, but it resolved something, and that is the physical pain. It can't solve EVERYTHING, but it can solve some things.

Yeah, but it resolved something, and that is the physical pain. It can't solve EVERYTHING, but it can solve some things.



they don't have to die for that, put into prison will serve just as well.

You're assuming this situation falls into the jurisdiction of the American Justice system.

You're assuming this situation falls into the jurisdiction of the American Justice system.


or Canadian, we don't have the death penelty out here, if we did one guy would have fried years ago.  I'm not saying I'm against the death penelty, I am just saying that is doesn't resolve everything for the people related to the victims, or for the victims themselves.

or Canadian, we don't have the death penelty out here, if we did one guy would have fried years ago.  I'm not saying I'm against the death penelty, I am just saying that is doesn't resolve everything for the people related to the victims, or for the victims themselves.


Well, yeah, it won't resolve everything. But it resolves SOME things. That was my point. It doesn't HAVE to be the way, but it CAN be, and it can solve things. Sure, there may be a better way, but it can work.

Well, yeah, it won't resolve everything. But it resolves SOME things. That was my point. It doesn't HAVE to be the way, but it CAN be, and it can solve things. Sure, there may be a better way, but it can work.



queation for ya Apricot, how did we get onto death of an evil person, we were originally talking about violence, sure death is sometimes caused by violence, but the violence I was talking about was, if someone pisses you off and you beat the crap outa them or even kill them in retailiation. That won't solve anything.

queation for ya Apricot, how did we get onto death of an evil person, we were originally talking about violence, sure death is sometimes caused by violence, but the violence I was talking about was, if someone ticks you off and you beat the crap outa them or even kill them in retailiation. That won't solve anything.


It'll shut em up.

It'll shut em up.


yeah, but it will get you 15 to 20 at the same time.

yeah, but it will get you 15 to 20 at the same time.


Still solved something.

Still solved something.


yeah but now you would have more to worry about than before.

yeah but now you would have more to worry about than before.


Yeah, I know that. My point was, violence can resolve some things. Might create more problems, but some good things come out of it.

Yeah, I know that. My point was, violence can resolve some things. Might create more problems, but some good things come out of it.


Everyone has their own opinion about everything, to me violence only leads to more violence, so by my theory, what's the point. anyone pisses me off, I say, they're not worth the trouble.

Maxwell, where do you get that Christian = Conservative?

Maybe it's a difference in parts of the country?  Here in CA we have a large hispanic population, most of which are some form of Christian, and also happen to be Democrats.

I am conservative but not really religious at all. (I believe in God, but don't follow any religion)

I see many Jewish supporting Bush (although for obvious reasons).

I don't quite see how you're making that connection.



I did not even imply Christian = Conservative.  If anything, conservatives are less Christian in their behavior than liberals and moderates.  It is the conservative evangelicals that force Christ into every issue society faces, but it's all a lot of hot air.

Yeah, I know that. My point was, violence can resolve some things. Might create more problems, but some good things come out of it.


Strange how everything has a reward and a consequence. Nothing comes without a price.  Just gotta check the tag, that's all.

I did not even imply Christian = Conservative.  If anything, conservatives are less Christian in their behavior than liberals and moderates.  It is the conservative evangelicals that force Christ into every issue society faces, but it's all a lot of hot air.


i refer to this strip. we expect so much from a benevolent diety and his peace loving son...

apologies to the small size. you have to click to view.

That was AWESOME!  ;D

Of course violence accomplishes things.  But in engaging in violence are you acting consistent with the principles you value most?  If so, fine.  If not, then why not seek another way?

The other morning, some asswipe practically ran me over to get a seat on the train, sending my $175.00 PDA crashing to the ground, and offering nothing but a casual 'sorry'.  I honestly don't know what kept me from taking a swing at the guy.  My blood was BOILING, and I could have justifiably (justified to me anyway) done physical harm to him.  Why not?  I'd have gotten quite a bit of temporary emotional satisfaction from it.  But so what?  The guy maybe would have the expense of some minor attention in the ER, and may have gotten to work late.  Would that have fixed my PDA?  No.  Would it have influenced him to offer to pay for a replacement?  Probably not.  Would he have charged me with assault?  Quite possibly.  So... I would have had... what?  A fleeting moment of emotional satisfaction?  A sense of macho vindication?  Why is that?  What's the whole macho vindication thing about anyway? 

Any need I might feel for that kind of vindication is only a reflection of my own insecurities, misdirected rage, or some other psychological nonsense.  We all have baggage like that.  But as rational human beings, we can choose to indulge it or not.  Violence says far less about the object of violence than it does about the perpetrator.

Well, yeah, it won't resolve everything. But it resolves SOME things. That was my point. It doesn't HAVE to be the way, but it CAN be, and it can solve things. Sure, there may be a better way, but it can work.


Aren't you anti-dp?

In 2nd grade a boy started bugging me every day. He would make fun of me, hit me, and constantly provoke me to hit him.

I tried
A Telling a teacher, inwhich turned into "Just ignore him" "Don't let him get to you" or "tell him to stop"
B Telling him to stop, which made him laugh and continue
C Try to make friends with him - That was a mistake
D Ignore him - The hits got harder
E Told my parents - Parents said not to do anything that would get me in trouble. Then hey called his parents, his parents didn't care.  Then my parents called the school, the school did nothing.

So it went on all of second grade

Then the next year rolled around and it went all of 3rd grade.

Half way through 4th grade after 2 and a half years of asking him to stop I finally got fed up and said, "Stop it you a$$hole" one day when he was throwing books at me in the library and the librarian kept me in for recess an entire week and made me help put away books.

I went home told my mom and she finally gave in and told me to do something.

The next day at school, he came up to me, called me a name, I asked him to stop. Then he threw woodchips in my face, and I punched him in the chest, he came at me and I threw him to the ground, the bell rang.

He NEVER bugged me again.

Violence solves nothing?  99% of the time.

Christians are not anti-forgiveness. More like anti-murder, anti-abortion, anti-crime, etc. Christians are just like people in other religions in that they struggle with sin and personal matters, and have to mete out punishment that they are reluctant to deal (at least most Christians are). In all matters, God is the final arbitrator. 

Christians are not anti-forgiveness. More like anti-murder, anti-abortion, anti-crime, etc. Christians are just like people in other religions in that they struggle with sin and personal matters, and have to mete out punishment that they are reluctant to deal (at least most Christians are). In all matters, God is the final arbitrator. 



Well to me God is, and to some others.....but be careful what you say on this board about God, you're dealing with a large % of athesist.  Or those who believe in God, but a God that ranks below themselves.

Well to me God is, and to some others.....but be careful what you say on this board about God, you're dealing with a large % of athesist.  Or those who believe in God, but a God that ranks below themselves.


I don't know about the rest of the peeps on here, but I am slightly offended by what you said.

I am NOT an Atheist (note the correct spelling), nor is a "large %" on this board. We all have different beliefs, different views, etc. It's called diversity. Just because we're not bible thumping, shove our religion down "nonbelievers" throats Christians doesn't make us Atheists. And what you said about only believing in a god that ranks below us is just retarded so I won't even touch that statement.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "I have nothing against God. It's his followers I can't stand."

Well to me God is, and to some others.....but be careful what you say on this board about God, you're dealing with a large % of athesist.  Or those who believe in God, but a God that ranks below themselves.


your a crusader, you think your on a mission to save the world with your love and peace rhetoric. it's not going to happen. i'm a christian but i came to realise that evil will always have the upper hand. ALWAYS. so shut it with your arrogance or i will flame your ass until i'm banned.

now please make a retort to my reply or be a proper christian and turn the other cheek and fukc off!

your a crusader, you think your on a mission to save the world with your love and peace rhetoric. it's not going to happen. i'm a christian but i came to realise that evil will always have the upper hand. ALWAYS. so shut it with your arrogance or i will flame your a** until i'm banned.

now please make a retort to my reply or be a proper christian and turn the other cheek and fukc off!


Sit around and do nothing....fudge the world....


You happy now?

I don't know about the rest of the peeps on here, but I am slightly offended by what you said.

I am NOT an Atheist (note the correct spelling), nor is a "large %" on this board. We all have different beliefs, different views, etc. It's called diversity. Just because we're not bible thumping, shove our religion down "nonbelievers" throats Christians doesn't make us Atheists. And what you said about only believing in a god that ranks below us is just retarded so I won't even touch that statement.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "I have nothing against God. It's his followers I can't stand."



Then YOU YOU YOU be offended....it's about time that YOU and the rest of the world realized that ME ME ME isn't what it's all about.

Sit around and do nothing....whatever the world....


You happy now?


i'm always happy  :)

i'm always happy  :)



Arrogance...is not what I'm showing....I'm showing confidence.

BIG difference.

Arrogance...is not what I'm showing....I'm showing confidence.

BIG difference.


i don't think so. you go after other members who don't approve of your ideals. on other boards you would have been banned. i too go after others so i'm in the same boat. i guess it takes one to know one.

Then YOU YOU YOU be offended....it's about time that YOU and the rest of the world realized that ME ME ME isn't what it's all about.


you know this statement goes against you as well, on all of your post, it's always what you believe in, you never acknowledge that others opinions may be right.

Then YOU YOU YOU be offended....it's about time that YOU and the rest of the world realized that ME ME ME isn't what it's all about.


*snicker*

YOU say that and yet how did you start out the original post that I'm commenting on? Some comment on how YOU believe in God being the final arbitrator, wasn't it?

Get over yourself, little boy. Your beliefs are just as valid as everyone else's, but that doesn't mean you can go around shoving your BS in everyone's face and remarking on them being Atheists because they don't believe what you do. I could swear that isn't very Christian or something. ::)

*snicker*

YOU say that and yet how did you start out the original post that I'm commenting on? Some comment on how YOU believe in God being the final arbitrator, wasn't it?

Get over yourself, little boy. Your beliefs are just as valid as everyone else's, but that doesn't mean you can go around shoving your BS in everyone's face and remarking on them being Atheists because they don't believe what you do. I could swear that isn't very Christian or something. ::)


Yeap MY beliefes....Took me 15 years to write the Bible.....and if I remember right it took me 20 years to create the teachers that would teach me the rights/wrongs evils/goods of this world after I was born.

There have been people on this board that have clearly stated that they think God is a bunch of hombo jumbo....So instead of acting like everyone on here believes in God, maybe you ought to go back and read on this post as well as other post how some people admit full heartedly to being atheist.


and what in the world makes you and others think that all christians should be passivest? Where in the Bible does is say, "Let thou do whatever the hell thou wants to do, never tell them they are wrong, never stick up against there evil?"

I think that too much of the Bible is hidden, and people like you think that all they show in movies and TV is all the Bible has to offer.


Genisis somewhere...and I will look it up if asked to prove it.....

"If man sheds the blood of another man, than by man shall his blood be shed"

but occording to you me being a christian means to "hey don't...wait I'm a christian go ahead"

Guess again....

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. - Matthew 5.38-41

I will agree that there are alot of Christians that give other Christians a bad name

I don't think they were bashing Christians at all.....I like open minded Christians....ones that don't shut people out just because they don't have the same beliefs...I think that we should listen/consider all ways of thinking.....not cover our ears and judge people just because they have a different way of living that don't match up to the Christian Stereotype.


we're all human. period.
def. not perfect and all different in some way....but that keeps things interesting

~Beth

An interesting forum answer to someone questioning as to what Jesus meant by "turning the other cheek"  is given here: http://www.new-life.net/faq001.htm

I find the final paragraph particularly interesting as a non-believer myself as it seems to fit in with my own moral beliefs better than with those of many of the openly christian people on these boards:

However, what is forbidden is the taking of vengeance (Romans 12:17-21), bitterness (Ephesians 4:31), and retaliation (1 Peter 2:23). These are absolutely forbidden by Jesus and the apostles.

*snicker*

YOU say that and yet how did you start out the original post that I'm commenting on? Some comment on how YOU believe in God being the final arbitrator, wasn't it?

Get over yourself, little boy. Your beliefs are just as valid as everyone else's, but that doesn't mean you can go around shoving your BS in everyone's face and remarking on them being Atheists because they don't believe what you do. I could swear that isn't very Christian or something. ::)




Don't make me out to be a discrimator either, because I'm not.

One of my best friends is an atheist.  And yes some of my friends do share my beliefs, and some of them don't....but they're still my friends.

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. - Matthew 5.38-41


Good show. This is why Jesus was a great man (this coming from a non-Christian).

I think where a lot of this confusion comes from is a lack of understanding by many Christians of the nature and history of their religion. First off, working within a Christian framework, anything dogmatic in the New Testament trumps any conflicting dogma in the Old Testament. The Old Testament may be sacred, but it is representative of the old covenant. God may have said "eye for an eye" in Exodus but that was the old way, and as soon as Jesus said "turn the other cheek" in Matthew it was a whole new game.

This illustrates the true Christian philosophy and way of life which, if you haven't figured it out yet, most people (nearly all people) are not cut out for. If you agree with vengeance, greed, violence, war, or any of these things - you are disagreeing with Christ, point blank.

Yeap MY beliefes....Took me 15 years to write the Bible.....and if I remember right it took me 20 years to create the teachers that would teach me the rights/wrongs evils/goods of this world after I was born.
::)

There have been people on this board that have clearly stated that they think God is a bunch of hombo jumbo....

So?

So instead of acting like everyone on here believes in God, maybe you ought to go back and read on this post as well as other post how some people admit full heartedly to being atheist.

Hmmm....I don't remember saying everyone on here believes in God. I said that they have different beliefs and views.


and what in the world makes you and others think that all christians should be passivest?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yeah right! Most "Christians" I know are far from being passive!

Where in the Bible does is say, "Let thou do whatever the hell thou wants to do, never tell them they are wrong, never stick up against there evil?"

Who knows? That book is so full of contradictions and stuff that nobody could figure it out. I'm sure you though, in all your wisdom, could tell me.

I think that too much of the Bible is hidden, and people like you think that all they show in movies and TV is all the Bible has to offer.

Yeah. I believe everything I saw in "Ben-Hur" and "The Ten Commandments".


Genisis somewhere...and I will look it up if asked to prove it.....

"If man sheds the blood of another man, than by man shall his blood be shed"

Mmmm.....violence.

but occording to you me being a christian means to "hey don't...wait I'm a christian go ahead"

Once again, that's not what I said or meant. Being Christian supposedly means brotherly love or something. I wouldn't know though since I'm just some looney Atheist. ::)




Don't make me out to be a discrimator either, because I'm not.

One of my best friends is an atheist.  And yes some of my friends do share my beliefs, and some of them don't....but they're still my friends.


So answer this: if you have friends that are atheists and/or don't share your beliefs, then why do you come on here and spout off and act like an a$$ to everyone who doesn't agree with you? Don't deny it. I lurk enough to see what stunts you pull on people who don't share your beliefs.

That being said, my son just took a dump and at this point, his poop is far more interesting than what you have to say. Thanks though. Nothing like a good argument to get me out of my depression. :)

::)

So?

Hmmm....I don't remember saying everyone on here believes in God. I said that they have different beliefs and views.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yeah right! Most "Christians" I know are far from being passive!

Who knows? That book is so full of contradictions and stuff that nobody could figure it out. I'm sure you though, in all your wisdom, could tell me.

Yeah. I believe everything I saw in "Ben-Hur" and "The Ten Commandments".


Mmmm.....violence.

Once again, that's not what I said or meant. Being Christian supposedly means brotherly love or something. I wouldn't know though since I'm just some looney Atheist. ::)

So answer this: if you have friends that are atheists and/or don't share your beliefs, then why do you come on here and spout off and act like an a$$ to everyone who doesn't agree with you? Don't deny it. I lurk enough to see what stunts you pull on people who don't share your beliefs.

That being said, my son just took a dump and at this point, his poop is far more interesting than what you have to say. Thanks though. Nothing like a good argument to get me out of my depression. :)


I haven't written anything bad towards anyone no this board, unless they first attacked me.  You think that you have a right to bash me and my beliefs and then you can say, "you can't react because Christians are supposed to take the punishment and smile."

it don't work that way...and glad to know your son made an image of you in the toilet

counter reaction...which will probably be seen as me Starting it...because CHuckyG has hated me ever since I joined this message board, but what else is new

Interesting as a pile of crap...won't be seen as  a direct shot....but what I said will be.

I haven't written anything bad towards anyone no this board, unless they first attacked me.  You think that you have a right to bash me and my beliefs and then you can say, "you can't react because Christians are supposed to take the punishment and smile."

it don't work that way...and glad to know your son made an image of you in the toilet

counter reaction...which will probably be seen as me Starting it...because CHuckyG has hated me ever since I joined this message board, but what else is new

Interesting as a pile of crap...won't be seen as  a direct shot....but what I said will be.


Since I'm back from changing my son's bottom, I'll give you a reply.

I see you're playing the "I'm a victim" card again. I remember that happening before. I remember you attacking someone else about their beliefs on abortion and then acting like they started it. I remember you claiming that they attacked your beliefs because they didn't agree with you.

It appears that the same thing is happening here. So since you want to act like a child about this, I'll let you have your victim fantasy. You amuse the hell out of me, so I'll even ignore your half-a$$ed insult.

Incidentally, my son isn't potty trained yet, so my image was in his diaper. ::)

it don't work that way...and glad to know your son made an image of you in the toilet

Well, actually it was in his diaper...he's not old enough to use the toilet quite yet :)



counter reaction...which will probably be seen as me Starting it...because CHuckyG has hated me ever since I joined this message board, but what else is new


ChuckyG is very tolerant of arguments in this particular board.  I think the only reason you are so "hated" is because you yourself are intolerant.  Maybe you should follow your own statement and be more receptive to other opinions.

Since I'm back from changing my son's bottom, I'll give you a reply.

I see you're playing the "I'm a victim" card again. I remember that happening before. I remember you attacking someone else about their beliefs on abortion and then acting like they started it. I remember you claiming that they attacked your beliefs because they didn't agree with you.

It appears that the same thing is happening here. So since you want to act like a child about this, I'll let you have your victim fantasy. You amuse the hell out of me, so I'll even ignore your half-a$$ed insult.

Incidentally, my son isn't potty trained yet, so my image was in his diaper. ::)


I act like a child about this...YOU bashed me first...

and Crazymom did start it..she was the first one to make an attack..she said to me, harmonica..."F U C K You"....that's starting something.  Whatever you do Forgive her and act like she's in the right and she's all good and great and I'm just a little stupid idiot. Then if you can, please remind me of how great and gracious it was for Crazymom to laugh in Ralphs face and make him out to be an idiot, and make me feel as if I'm doing something wrong for feeling bad for Ralph.

and whatever you do....make sure you remind me for the umpteenth time that She used the words, "maybe, perhaps, well it could be, well I don't know for sure but"  which gets her clean off the hook.


Gotta learn to do that...perhaps your a ....maybe you could be a .........yeah shoulda learned the first time around.

I act like a child about this...YOU bashed me first...

and Crazymom did start it..she was the first one to make an attack..she said to me, harmonica..."F U C K You"....that's starting something.  Whatever you do Forgive her and act like she's in the right and she's all good and great and I'm just a little stupid idiot. Then if you can, please remind me of how great and gracious it was for Crazymom to laugh in Ralphs face and make him out to be an idiot, and make me feel as if I'm doing something wrong for feeling bad for Ralph.


You don't get it, do you? Here you are defending Christianity when you yourself fail to be a good example of what a Christian should be. Your post here suggests that you do not hold forgiveness in the regards your religion would have you, and that you prefer to get even... These are not acceptable behaviours according to Christ. If you had taken his advice and turned the other cheek, you would have won the argument... or at least walked away with your dignity.

You don't get it, do you? Here you are defending Christianity when you yourself fail to be a good example of what a Christian should be. Your post here suggests that you do not hold forgiveness in the regards your religion would have you, and that you prefer to get even... These are not acceptable behaviours according to Christ. If you had taken his advice and turned the other cheek, you would have won the argument... or at least walked away with your dignity.


Won the arguement? How in the World do you honestly figure that?  And where does walking away when soemthing needs to be said leave dignity?

I never claimed to be perfect McDonald....and if anyone knows anything about what a Christian should be, it sure ain't you, DO YOU GET THAT?

Turn the other cheek said Christ...."Eye for eye" said God...."than by man shall his blood be shed" said God.....yeah it says that too.


I get everything just fine.....your the one that don't get it.

I act like a child about this...YOU bashed me first...

and Crazymom did start it..she was the first one to make an attack..she said to me, harmonica..."F U C K You"....that's starting something.  Whatever you do Forgive her and act like she's in the right and she's all good and great and I'm just a little stupid idiot. Then if you can, please remind me of how great and gracious it was for Crazymom to laugh in Ralphs face and make him out to be an idiot, and make me feel as if I'm doing something wrong for feeling bad for Ralph.

and whatever you do....make sure you remind me for the umpteenth time that She used the words, "maybe, perhaps, well it could be, well I don't know for sure but"  which gets her clean off the hook.


Gotta learn to do that...perhaps your a ....maybe you could be a .........yeah shoulda learned the first time around.


Yes, yes. Believe what you want. Your memory, much like that book you always talk about, is quite faulty, contradictory, and selective about things. Go you.

Please keep replying. You're keeping me entertained while I work.

Won the arguement? How in the World do you honestly figure that?  And where does walking away when soemthing needs to be said leave dignity?

I never claimed to be perfect McDonald....and if anyone knows anything about what a Christian should be, it sure ain't you, DO YOU GET THAT?

Turn the other cheek said Christ...."Eye for eye" said God...."than by man shall his blood be shed" said God.....yeah it says that too.


I get everything just fine.....your the one that don't get it.


I get this image of the Waterboy's mom saying that everything that Bobby does that she doesn't like is caused by the "Devil"...hehehe.

By the way..."you're".

If you're the shining example of what Christianity should be, then I fear the religion is doomed.

Yes, yes. Believe what you want. Your memory, much like that book you always talk about, is quite faulty, contradictory, and selective about things. Go you.

Please keep replying. You're keeping me entertained while I work.


Beleive, Know,think, whatever you wanna call it....

Crazymom DID start it against me....I retaliated.  FACT....no belief to it...FACT


Nothing faulty, contradictory, or selective about it.

I get this image of the Waterboy's mom saying that everything that Bobby does that she doesn't like is caused by the "Devil"...hehehe.

By the way..."you're".

If you're the shining example of what Christianity should be, then I fear the religion is doomed.



a lot of people hate me on this message board....glad to welcome you aboard.

Maybe if you got off your holier than thou kick, people wouldn't act like they hated you.

I was always taught in Bible Class (yup, I was a christian in my youth) that the New Testament was the pre-eminent gospel in so far as the teachings of Christ as reported in the New Testament restated the will of God and the purpose of mankind. Surely the fact that Christ turned the other cheek himself and said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" as he hung on the cross is the ultimate act of forgiveness. He knew that Peter would deny him three times before the Cockerel crowed and yet when they met after the resurrection he bade him no ill will.

I guess as with all written words it depends on the interpretation of the reader to some extent and, in the case of the Bible, it depends on whether you are Old or New testament in your beliefs. I tend to go with my own experience and teachings of positive christianity which seem to emphasise forgiveness over retaliation.

a lot of people hate me on this message board....glad to welcome you aboard.


Dude!  I don't even KNOW you!  ;D

I guess I could jump on the bandwagon though...but you seem to have a really high opinion of yourself if you think that I have the time and energy to spend "hating" you.  You seem also to have trouble distinguishing between "hate" and "disagree".  I disagree with my wife sometimes, I must really hate her.  Pshaw.

I disagree with my wife sometimes, I must really hate her.  Pshaw.


Totally. When you annoy the heck out of me and I don't talk to you that much, that really means I hate you. ;D

I don't understand what all the hype is about.  

I believe in God, but I don't go to church, read bibles, pray or follow any religion.

I try to be honest, generous, responsible, moral, etc... and that is the best I can do for God.  I was taught those things by my parents, and I try to live by them the best I can, even if I'm not perfect.  I don't need a book or a preacher to tell me how to live my life...

It's pretty simple, actually...

I don't understand what all the hype is about. 

I believe in God, but I don't go to church, read bibles, pray or follow any religion.

I try to be honest, generous, responsible, moral, etc... and that is the best I can do for God.  I was taught those things by my parents, and I try to live by them the best I can, even if I'm not perfect.  I don't need a book or a preacher to tell me how to live my life...

It's pretty simple, actually...


The way I understand it, that's what God and Jesus would have wanted from you anyway :)

Dude!  I don't even KNOW you!  ;D

I guess I could jump on the bandwagon though...but you seem to have a really high opinion of yourself if you think that I have the time and energy to spend "hating" you.  You seem also to have trouble distinguishing between "hate" and "disagree".  I disagree with my wife sometimes, I must really hate her.  Pshaw.



Do you really KNOW anybody?   Disagree and Hate are two different things.

You disagree with me........some on this message board..hate me.

I don't have trouble distinguishing that.

Maybe if you got off your holier than thou kick, people wouldn't act like they hated you.


I'm not about making the wrong people happy.

I don't understand what all the hype is about.  

I believe in God, but I don't go to church, read bibles, pray or follow any religion.

I try to be honest, generous, responsible, moral, etc... and that is the best I can do for God.  I was taught those things by my parents, and I try to live by them the best I can, even if I'm not perfect.  I don't need a book or a preacher to tell me how to live my life...

It's pretty simple, actually...


You dont' have to " go to church, read bibles, pray or follow any religion."....in oder to believe in God, a lot of people understand that.


but you do have to "try to be honest, generous, responsible, moral, etc... and that is the best I can do for God"  Glad you understand that, cause a lot  of people don't.

Sorry to disturb the war going on here but does anyone want to discuss the topic or re we done on this one  :)

Won the arguement? How in the World do you honestly figure that?  And where does walking away when soemthing needs to be said leave dignity?

I never claimed to be perfect McDonald....and if anyone knows anything about what a Christian should be, it sure ain't you, DO YOU GET THAT?

Turn the other cheek said Christ...."Eye for eye" said God...."than by man shall his blood be shed" said God.....yeah it says that too.


I get everything just fine.....your the one that don't get it.


What makes you so sure I don't know the criteria for what makes a good Christian? I may not be a Christian, but I was reared one and I have a thorough understanding of the Christian religion - which makes me every bit as qualified as you.

Are you acknowledging that the Bible contradicts itself? If Jesus said to turn away from these behaviours, does it matter what was said about it in the Old Testament? Those books are of the Old Covenant and Christ is the New Covenant (according to your religion). The very definition of "Christian" is one who follows Christ, so I would wager that a Christian is supposed to adhere to what Christ himself had to say on the matter.

And what, oh wise sage, "needs to be said" so badly? What instrumental advice have you to offer? What do you feel?

I'm not about making the wrong people happy.


Who the F U C K are you to judge who is right and who is wrong? Get your head out of the Bible and act HUMAN for once.

What makes you so sure I don't know the criteria for what makes a good Christian? I may not be a Christian, but I was reared one and I have a thorough understanding of the Christian religion - which makes me every bit as qualified as you.

Are you acknowledging that the Bible contradicts itself? If Jesus said to turn away from these behaviours, does it matter what was said about it in the Old Testament? Those books are of the Old Covenant and Christ is the New Covenant (according to your religion). The very definition of "Christian" is one who follows Christ, so I would wager that a Christian is supposed to adhere to what Christ himself had to say on the matter.

And what, oh wise sage, "needs to be said" so badly? What instrumental advice have you to offer? What do you feel?


I feel that you have some unruley belief that all christians should be perfect christians without fault, and if they have faults..which I clearly do, hiding nothing bout that, then they can not be true Christians.

I have never known personally a person who never sinned, or a person that no longer sins. But I should huh?

Qualified?  Qualified?  Christianity isn't a tournament.

Forgot to say that I'm done here. That last line that God, Jr....oh excuse me, his name is Harmonica...said really annoyed me again.

Have fun people!

Who the F U C K are you to judge who is right and who is wrong? Get your head out of the Bible and act HUMAN for once.



Who the F U C K are you to make a person who follows the Bible, non human?


I suppose all True humans, are just like you huh? 

Forgot to say that I'm done here. That last line that God, Jr....oh excuse me, his name is Harmonica...said really annoyed me again.

Have fun people!


make sure you pray tonight....oh forgot..your too good for that.

I feel that you have some unruley belief that all christians should be perfect christians without fault, and if they have faults..which I clearly do, hiding nothing bout that, then they can not be true Christians.

Absolutely not. I just find it terribly ironic that there is someone here who is supposed to be defending Christianity, but in the process of doing so, defies one of Christ's teachings repeatedly.


Qualified?  Qualified?  Christianity isn't a tournament.


No sh*t. Are you not the person who wrote this...

if anyone knows anything about what a Christian should be, it sure ain't you, DO YOU GET THAT?

Now, I don't see where my flawless choice of words is relevent. But that's an excellent way to dodge a question. I'll repeat it for you and see if second time's a charm.

"What makes you so sure I don't know the criteria for what makes a good Christian?"

*laughs maniacally at the owning of harmonica*

I act like a child about this...YOU bashed me first...

and Crazymom did start it..she was the first one to make an attack..she said to me, harmonica..."F U C K You"....that's starting something.  Whatever you do Forgive her and act like she's in the right and she's all good and great and I'm just a little stupid idiot. Then if you can, please remind me of how great and gracious it was for Crazymom to laugh in Ralphs face and make him out to be an idiot, and make me feel as if I'm doing something wrong for feeling bad for Ralph.

and whatever you do....make sure you remind me for the umpteenth time that She used the words, "maybe, perhaps, well it could be, well I don't know for sure but"  which gets her clean off the hook.


Gotta learn to do that...perhaps your a ....maybe you could be a .........yeah shoulda learned the first time around.


why would she say f u c k you for no reason, maybe because you were jumping on her for no reason, actually because she disagreed with u, as for Ralph, no of us even know him so y should we laugh, didn't even know he existed till you said that she was laughing at him. open your eyes and see that your way is not the only way to live.

ok....
so the two things that I try to stay away from discussing too much are: religion and politics....because there is no possible way for every person in the world to see eye to eye on the matter....

the point I like to make is this: I am a Christian (I consider myself a more liberal christian at times), I am not perfect...I make oodles of mistakes...just like everyone else....I love God....I try to be the best person I can be....BUT...I don't condemn others for their beliefs. I am/or have been friends with people from all walks of life (church people, gay people, non-believers, witches....you name it...I've had a friend who has fallen under a category). I mean, it's great when you find someone who shares the same "beliefs" as yourself...but face it...there are so many people in the world....there's no way that could ever be possible.

I can understand comments from both sides of the arguement....and I think that the longer the topic is drawn out...the more the s**t is slung back and forth.....but it basically all boils down to this.....agree to disagree.

I like to hear different people's opinions and sometimes I totally disagree with them with every part of me....BUT....I don't chose to disrespect them and throw personal hate messages their way.

And back to the real topic of this post, "are christian anti-forgiveness".....I can only speak for myself when I say that I am a Christian...and I have forgiven some pretty shi**y people in my lifetime...because that is what God would want us to do. I do realize that alot of Christians give the nice ones a really bad name....I have witnessed it many times when I was a server in a restaurant.....there was a group of "church people" that would come in....and they were by far...the most rude and abnoxious bunch I have ever encountered...and I think it's a shame whenever people like that make it bad for the rest.
Yes...some Christians are anit-forgiveness and that isn't right...because if they are going to claim that they are christian....than they need to live by it.

ok...well enough of my rambling.......I just hope everyone can just agree to disagree...because the name-calling just isn't right. :-\\


Erin :)

Absolutely not. I just find it terribly ironic that there is someone here who is supposed to be defending Christianity, but in the process of doing so, defies one of Christ's teachings repeatedly.

No sh*t. Are you not the person who wrote this...Now, I don't see where my flawless choice of words is relevent. But that's an excellent way to dodge a question. I'll repeat it for you and see if second time's a charm.

"What makes you so sure I don't know the criteria for what makes a good Christian?"


You are not one

why would she say f u c k you for no reason, maybe because you were jumping on her for no reason, actually because she disagreed with u, as for Ralph, no of us even know him so y should we laugh, didn't even know he existed till you said that she was laughing at him. open your eyes and see that your way is not the only way to live.


Shut my eyes? that's what you meant to say.

Why do you have to bring me into this?  And, no it's not a FACT, like everything else, it's your OPINION ::)  The "FU" comment came after you insinuated that I deserved to be raped.....I don't know of ANYONE who has been raped in the past who wouldn't have responded in kind.


I never insinuated that you deserved to be Raped? I clearly asked you if Ralph deserved to have his child murdered, and have the likes of you tell him that he shouldn't feel bad about it, and on top of that, that he should consult and approve of the woman that murdered his kid.  I got pissed off and kept after you, and then I wanted to know how you would feel if people treated you in the same fashion you treated Ralph.

Your Tacit premises get by a lot of people, they don't me.

Oh, the comment about atheists or believing in a God beneath themselves WASN'T offensive?  And, Jessica replying that she was offended is bashing you.....like others have said "get over yourself" ::)



People on this board have clearly stated they are athesist....and others have clearly stated, "well I did believe in God, but I didn't get what I wanted so....."  I was referring to them when I made that statement.