1. A certain level of Global Warming, scientists say, is now inevitable.  We can now only reduce how bad it will be.
2. There's no escape from Global Warming, whether you're in Florida, Alaska, Oregon, or Brazil.
3. Terrorists and megalomaniacs cause havoc to countries, cities, or buildings; global warming may kill millions or billions worldwide.
4. We can do more about slowing down global warming than we can of megalomaniacs; they'll always be freaks with power. 
5. A temperature rise of 1 degree not sound like much? Well, the Ice Age was only 10 degrees colder than today than average.  Go figure.

1. A certain level of Global Warming, scientists say, is now inevitable.  We can now only reduce how bad it will be.
2. There's no escape from Global Warming, whether you're in Florida, Alaska, Oregon, or Brazil.


Well, this is really a no-brainer.  And here is the secret the enviro-fanatics do not want you to know:  "Global Warming" has been going on for over 10,000 years!  That's right, Global Warming has been going on since the end of the last Ice Age.

And nobody really knows what the "normal" temperature of the Earth really is.  In the Neoproterozoic era, a lot of scientists believe that there was a Global Ice Age, where the entire surface of the earth was covered by ice.  This may have occured 4 times so far.

Obversely, there have been many times where there were no polar ice caps at all!  In fact, during the Jurrasic, there was a flourishing jungle and animal population on Antarctica!  So if you think it is bad now, think about a world where there are no ice caps at all, and about 15% more of the earth's surface is under water.  And there were no humans around then to blame it on.

So you are right, there is no escape from Global Warming.  It is happening, there is nothing we can do about it.  If you do not like it, complain to the Sun and the Earth.


3. Terrorists and megalomaniacs cause havoc to countries, cities, or buildings; global warming may kill millions or billions worldwide.
4. We can do more about slowing down global warming than we can of megalomaniacs; they'll always be freaks with power. 
5. A temperature rise of 1 degree not sound like much? Well, the Ice Age was only 10 degrees colder than today than average.  Go figure.


Actually, we can do nothing about global warming, other then on a small scale.  A lot of people do not even think about the effect of the ocean's currents on global weather.  Since water covers 75% of the earth's surface, it is even harder to imagine that we humans can have such global impacts.  Myself, I think that is extreme arrogance to even imagine we can do such damage.

Terrorists we can do something about.  And we are doing something about them.  Global warming is going to happen if we do anything about it or not.

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/edu/eesj/casestudies/EESJsnow.html

Which kind of global warming?  The normal kind that has been going on for thousands of years, or that made up human-induced kind the far-left said was going to destroy us in 10 years back in the 1970's?

Which kind of global warming?  The normal kind that has been going on for thousands of years, or that made up human-induced kind the far-left said was going to destroy us in 10 years back in the 1970's?


First, let me acknowledge that there have been major climate shifts in the course of earth history (I'm no expert but I did minor in geology in college, so I have a nodding aquaintance with this stuff).  And I agree that none of those shifts were caused by farting -flatulant (can I say "farting"?) dinasours.  So clearly, there is no way that we puny humans can control the earth's processes - not earthquakes, or volcanoes or tsunamies etc.  But we can mitigate our own contribution to those fluctuations

One more point.  I think we need to be a lot more specific when we talk about political perspectives and use political lables.  Just who in blazes is the "far left"?  I have been reading the manifestos of the US Communist party (just for kicks, I'm NOT a member) for many years but don't recall much mention of global warming. The "far left" focuses on class, and more recently on gender issues, which are within out scope of control, and not on geology (?).

Saying we can do "nothing" about Global warming is a plain apathetic response.

Stop using CFC's...that's something

Stop smoking....that's something

Stop driving your car 1/4 of a block cause your too lazy to take 3 minutes to walk to the destination...that's something

Saying we can do "nothing" about Global warming is a plain apathetic response.

Stop using CFC's...that's something

Stop smoking....that's something

Stop driving your car 1/4 of a block cause your too lazy to take 3 minutes to walk to the destination...that's something


A fellow enviromentalist I see. :)

4. We can do more about slowing down global warming than we can of megalomaniacs; they'll always be freaks with power. 


human beings can be dealt with. violence is often a powerful reminder of who's in power. the earth is a force of nature that cannot be negotiated with.

human beings can be dealt with. violence is often a powerful reminder of who's in power. the earth is a force of nature that cannot be negotiated with.


But we can stop furthering it's destruction in the manner that we are. ::)

But we can stop furthering it's destruction in the manner that we are. ::)


the planet is four billion years old and scientists thinks it will be here for another four to five billion years. what we are doing is nothing in the grand scheme of the epochs of time. we destroy our planet life, in a few million years another species takes over. to the earth, we're nothing.

Well, this is really a no-brainer.  And here is the secret the enviro-fanatics do not want you to know:  "Global Warming" has been going on for over 10,000 years!  That's right, Global Warming has been going on since the end of the last Ice Age.

And nobody really knows what the "normal" temperature of the Earth really is.  In the Neoproterozoic era, a lot of scientists believe that there was a Global Ice Age, where the entire surface of the earth was covered by ice.  This may have occured 4 times so far.

Obversely, there have been many times where there were no polar ice caps at all!  In fact, during the Jurrasic, there was a flourishing jungle and animal population on Antarctica!  So if you think it is bad now, think about a world where there are no ice caps at all, and about 15% more of the earth's surface is under water.  And there were no humans around then to blame it on.

So you are right, there is no escape from Global Warming.  It is happening, there is nothing we can do about it.  If you do not like it, complain to the Sun and the Earth.

Actually, we can do nothing about global warming, other then on a small scale.  A lot of people do not even think about the effect of the ocean's currents on global weather.  Since water covers 75% of the earth's surface, it is even harder to imagine that we humans can have such global impacts.  Myself, I think that is extreme arrogance to even imagine we can do such damage.

Terrorists we can do something about.  And we are doing something about them.  Global warming is going to happen if we do anything about it or not.

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/edu/eesj/casestudies/EESJsnow.html


Good points, Mushroom.  But doesn't 1 degree in a century seem like a lot?  If it went on 10,000 years (which it most likely wouldn't btw) the Earth would warm 100 degrees on AVERAGE. Point #1 is reffering to human-induced global warming, which the vast majority of scientists accept as true. 

We can't do anything about natural warming and shouldn't: it's my personal belief that Nature is a perfect system.  But we CAN use mass transit, use less water, and recycle. 

We can do something about terrorism, but they'll just be new ones in place.  That's not to say we shouldn't hunt em down, it's just saying it shouldn't be our very highest priority.  As for the dinosaur comment, it's not so much the warmth itself as it is the rapid transition that would be the killer.

1. A certain level of Global Warming, scientists say, is now inevitable.  We can now only reduce how bad it will be.
2. There's no escape from Global Warming, whether you're in Florida, Alaska, Oregon, or Brazil.
3. Terrorists and megalomaniacs cause havoc to countries, cities, or buildings; global warming may kill millions or billions worldwide.
4. We can do more about slowing down global warming than we can of megalomaniacs; they'll always be freaks with power. 
5. A temperature rise of 1 degree not sound like much? Well, the Ice Age was only 10 degrees colder than today than average.  Go figure.


people have been going on about global warming for as long as i can remember.
As for temperature changes, In the summer here it's as hot as it always has been and winter is as cold if not colder then any other year.

How can scientists really know how cold it was in the ice age, there were no thermometers back then and any artifacts found from back then would have to be uncovered, dug up or whatever they do, as soon as it is exposed to our enviroment, it will heat up some. Besides that it has been a long time since then, the ground has warmed up and will warm up whatever is buried in it.

How can scientists really know how cold it was in the ice age, there were no thermometers back then and any artifacts found from back then would have to be uncovered, dug up or whatever they do, as soon as it is exposed to our enviroment, it will heat up some. Besides that it has been a long time since then, the ground has warmed up and will warm up whatever is buried in it.


they take core samples from greenland and look at the rate of expansion of ice and the accumalation of snow during that period and make an estimate at the tempretures. also, core samples are taken from lakes that have been known to exist at the last ice age and see what matter of tree and plant life existed from the pollen and what tempretures are needed for them to survive. paleo-climatology is a pretty accurate science.

Good points, Mushroom.  But doesn't 1 degree in a century seem like a lot?  If it went on 10,000 years (which it most likely wouldn't btw) the Earth would warm 100 degrees on AVERAGE. Point #1 is reffering to human-induced global warming, which the vast majority of scientists accept as true. 

We can't do anything about natural warming and shouldn't: it's my personal belief that Nature is a perfect system.  But we CAN use mass transit, use less water, and recycle. 


Remember, those statistics cover only the average temperature, in the areas where they are monitoring the temperature.  I doubt that more then 10% of the world's surface is actually taken into account.  And don't forget, 75% of that surface is water.

Also, those averages increase and decrease every few decades (or centuris).  For those of us that remember the mid-1970's, a lot of the enviro-fanatics were looking at the same things (polution, use of fossil fuels, carbon dioxide emissions) and saying thatt hey were causing a new "global ice age".  Now 20 years later, they say the same things cause "Global warming".

And also remember, some of these things are very local.  In the last 2,000-2,500 years, the remains of the Sahara Flood Plain dried up, a giant lake that was in Eastern California dried up and is now known as "Death Valley", and large areas of the American South West were lush grassloand, supporting an emerging technological population.  Then the climate changed, leaving the Pueblo Indian culture in ruins, drying the lake in Death Valley, and starting the decline of the Egyptian civilization.

About 800 years ago, Europe suffered under the "Mini Ice Age", killing tens of thousands.  And there have been thousands of climate shifts, covering both increase and decrease of rainfall, temperature, and other things.

Now while I am not an "environmentalist", I am an "old fashioned ecologist".  I believe strongly that it is our duty to provide stewardship and take care of our environment.  Reduceing polution and damage is the smart thing to do.  Recycling is also smart, because it reduces the need for raw materials.

I myself do what I can to do these things.  I do not own an "SUV".  I have a full size van I only use for hauling cargo.  I have a small sedan I use only when I need to haul small things, people, or during bad weather.  For my day-to-day driving, I use a motorcycle.  This used less raw materials to make, uses less gas, and has less emissions then a car.

I go camping fairly often, "roughing it" with my motorcycle and a tent.  In fact, I plan on traveling this way during the summer to North Carolina, hopefully even to Washington DC before I run out of time.  I do not call it "camping" when you pull up in your 2 bedroom motor home and raise your satellite dish.


One more point.  I think we need to be a lot more specific when we talk about political perspectives and use political lables.  Just who in blazes is the "far left"?


I agree here Carlos.  Unlike some people, I do not feel the need to apply labels to everything.  You can be a radical environmentalist, and still be Conservative.  Look at John Muir.  Although towards the end he got a bit to crack-pot for my taste, I feel that overall he had the right ideas.  He originally wanted Yosemite opened up and kept clean for all to enjoy.  Then later, he wanted it to become a kind of primitive area, that nobody would be able to enjoy.

I consider myself an "Ecological Conservative".  We need to preserve as much of nature as we can, for ourselves and our children.  But at the same time, we need to expand so our children have room to "live".  We need to do this with as little impact as possible on nature, but that does not mean "no impact".

And I also encourage people to not just talk about "the environment", but to go visit it.  Go on a picnic, just pick a place in the middle of nowhere.  Take a day trip to the desert, the mountains, the forest, somewhere.  Make it a part of your life, not something to just stand back and look at from a distance while you drive down the freeway at 70 mph.

Remember, those statistics cover only the average temperature, in the areas where they are monitoring the temperature.  I doubt that more then 10% of the world's surface is actually taken into account.  And don't forget, 75% of that surface is water.

Also, those averages increase and decrease every few decades (or centuris).  For those of us that remember the mid-1970's, a lot of the enviro-fanatics were looking at the same things (polution, use of fossil fuels, carbon dioxide emissions) and saying thatt hey were causing a new "global ice age".  Now 20 years later, they say the same things cause "Global warming".

And also remember, some of these things are very local.  In the last 2,000-2,500 years, the remains of the Sahara Flood Plain dried up, a giant lake that was in Eastern California dried up and is now known as "Death Valley", and large areas of the American South West were lush grassloand, supporting an emerging technological population.  Then the climate changed, leaving the Pueblo Indian culture in ruins, drying the lake in Death Valley, and starting the decline of the Egyptian civilization.

About 800 years ago, Europe suffered under the "Mini Ice Age", killing tens of thousands.  And there have been thousands of climate shifts, covering both increase and decrease of rainfall, temperature, and other things.

Now while I am not an "environmentalist", I am an "old fashioned ecologist".  I believe strongly that it is our duty to provide stewardship and take care of our environment.  Reduceing polution and damage is the smart thing to do.  Recycling is also smart, because it reduces the need for raw materials.

I myself do what I can to do these things.  I do not own an "SUV".  I have a full size van I only use for hauling cargo.  I have a small sedan I use only when I need to haul small things, people, or during bad weather.  For my day-to-day driving, I use a motorcycle.  This used less raw materials to make, uses less gas, and has less emissions then a car.

I go camping fairly often, "roughing it" with my motorcycle and a tent.  In fact, I plan on traveling this way during the summer to North Carolina, hopefully even to Washington DC before I run out of time.  I do not call it "camping" when you pull up in your 2 bedroom motor home and raise your satellite dish.

I agree here Carlos.  Unlike some people, I do not feel the need to apply labels to everything.  You can be a radical environmentalist, and still be Conservative.  Look at John Muir.  Although towards the end he got a bit to crack-pot for my taste, I feel that overall he had the right ideas.  He originally wanted Yosemite opened up and kept clean for all to enjoy.  Then later, he wanted it to become a kind of primitive area, that nobody would be able to enjoy.

I consider myself an "Ecological Conservative".  We need to preserve as much of nature as we can, for ourselves and our children.  But at the same time, we need to expand so our children have room to "live".  We need to do this with as little impact as possible on nature, but that does not mean "no impact".

And I also encourage people to not just talk about "the environment", but to go visit it.  Go on a picnic, just pick a place in the middle of nowhere.  Take a day trip to the desert, the mountains, the forest, somewhere.  Make it a part of your life, not something to just stand back and look at from a distance while you drive down the freeway at 70 mph.


Well written, but might I add that most of the hottest years on record have been within 25 years of now?  I do agree people need to get out more into Nature, but not if it means developing it into an amusement park.

Saying we can do "nothing" about Global warming is a plain apathetic response.

Stop using CFC's...that's something

Stop smoking....that's something

Stop driving your car 1/4 of a block cause your too lazy to take 3 minutes to walk to the destination...that's something


Right On.  We certainly can't do much about the natural fluctuations, tribulations, variations of nature, but we can do a great deal to not contribute to them.  These three are just the tip ofthe iceberg of what we can do. 

Trade your SUV for a hybrid.

Trade your power boat for a sail boat ("I can teach a man to sail, but I can't  teach him why."  That you have to learn for yourself.  Lessons anyone?)

Turn your thermostate down to 60 and buy some woolen sweaters.

Insist that farmers get grwants and tax credits for installing what we in Vermont call "Cow Power", generating electricity from cow manure.

The list goes on, but the point is, the earth is our mother, lets stop dumping (so as not to get censored) on her.

Right On. We certainly can't do much about the natural fluctuations, tribulations, variations of nature, but we can do a great deal to not contribute to them. These three are just the tip ofthe iceberg of what we can do.

Trade your SUV for a hybrid.

Trade your power boat for a sail boat ("I can teach a man to sail, but I can't teach him why." That you have to learn for yourself. Lessons anyone?)

Turn your thermostate down to 60 and buy some woolen sweaters.

Insist that farmers get grwants and tax credits for installing what we in Vermont call "Cow Power", generating electricity from cow manure.

The list goes on, but the point is, the earth is our mother, lets stop dumping (so as not to get censored) on her.


I agree with the above. And I like to keep my house cold anyway..

Trade your power boat for a sail boat ("I can teach a man to sail, but I can't  teach him why."  That you have to learn for yourself.  Lessons anyone?)


Sailing is an awesome sport.  I wish I had the money to do it myself.

I used to sail when I was in High School.  When my family moved to Idaho in 1975, we bought 2 sailboats.  My mom continued to sail until shortly before she died.  There is nothing as peaceful as sailing, unless maybe it is skiing.  And I would glady give anybody lessons if they had a boat.  :)


Insist that farmers get grants and tax credits for installing what we in Vermont call "Cow Power", generating electricity from cow manure.


I would also like to see grants and tax credits for people who add "Solar Shingles" to their house or business.  I remember hearing once that if every building in LA used them, it would cut their need for electricity in half.


Well written, but might I add that most of the hottest years on record have been within 25 years of now?  I do agree people need to get out more into Nature, but not if it means developing it into an amusement park.


Actually, that is a misnomer.  Remember, most records only go back about 100 years.  And there have been a lot of periods of "record heat waves".  A lot of the human migrations during the first millenia have been attributed to drought and climate change.

And I agree with the need to prevent the "Disneyfication" of our wild areas.  Just give access, and a few improvements (like sanitary facilities) to make them visitable.  I always encourage people to experience wildlife and nature.  I wonder how many "environmentalists" have ever really gone camping.  I think that to most of them, they have a kind of "Madonna complex" in reguards to nature.  They claim hunting is cruel, but how many have ever seen wild animals eating?

Sailing is an awesome sport.  I wish I had the money to do it myself.

I used to sail when I was in High School.  When my family moved to Idaho in 1975, we bought 2 sailboats.  My mom continued to sail until shortly before she died.  There is nothing as peaceful as sailing, unless maybe it is skiing.  And I would glady give anybody lessons if they had a boat.  :)

I would also like to see grants and tax credits for people who add "Solar Shingles" to their house or business.  I remember hearing once that if every building in LA used them, it would cut their need for electricity in half.

Actually, that is a misnomer.  Remember, most records only go back about 100 years.  And there have been a lot of periods of "record heat waves".  A lot of the human migrations during the first millenia have been attributed to drought and climate change.

And I agree with the need to prevent the "Disneyfication" of our wild areas.  Just give access, and a few improvements (like sanitary facilities) to make them visitable.  I always encourage people to experience wildlife and nature.  I wonder how many "environmentalists" have ever really gone camping.  I think that to most of them, they have a kind of "Madonna complex" in reguards to nature.  They claim hunting is cruel, but how many have ever seen wild animals eating?


To answer the former, http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/f101.asp explains a lot.  It say we've had the largest temperature rise in recorded history (5500 years). That's a lot of time and whoever said it's been going on since the Ice Age is technically correct, but that's a 10 degree rise in 10,000 years.  That's 1/10 of a degree (F) compared to a full degree.

It's cool you agree with me that wild lands should be wild.  And hippies p*ss me off with their hypocrisy quite a bit.

Sailing is an awesome sport.  I wish I had the money to do it myself.


I would also like to see grants and tax credits for people who add "Solar Shingles" to their house or business.  I remember hearing once that if every building in LA used them, it would cut their need for electricity in half.

Actually, that is a misnomer.  Remember, most records only go back about 100 years.  And there have been a lot of periods of "record heat waves".  A lot of the human migrations during the first millenia have been attributed to drought and climate change.

And I agree with the need to prevent the "Disneyfication" of our wild areas.  Just give access, and a few improvements (like sanitary facilities) to make them visitable.  I always encourage people to experience wildlife and nature.  I wonder how many "environmentalists" have ever really gone camping.  I think that to most of them, they have a kind of "Madonna complex" in reguards to nature.  They claim hunting is cruel, but how many have ever seen wild animals eating?


I once built a little sail boat for +/- $150.  It wouldn't point up well, or come about, but it did have a "big white floopy thing" (a sail) on a mast, and it did move through the water.  Used boats can be very reasonable.  I paid only a few grand for my O'Day 25, 1976 edition, and I love her.

My daughter & son-in-law, who live near San Bernidino, have solar panals that generate a good deal of their electricity.  Here in Vermont, we need to wait for better technology or MUCH higher electricity prices to put in solar panals.

There is lots of acces to our wilderness, if you are willing to hike in, or just use camp grounds.  Having a great boat, we haven't done that for a while, but we are thinking of exploring Atlantic Canada for a few weeks this summer - before we need pass-ports to get back - tent, camnp stove, sleeping bags, the whole 9 yards.

Let's just put a big Fan on the moon, point it towards Earth and set it on high. That'll nix our little heat problem.

(my first thought on 15hrs without sleep) ::)