» OLD MESSAGE ARCHIVES «
The Pop Culture Information Society...
Messageboard Archive Index, In The 00s - The Pop Culture Information Society

Welcome to the archived messages from In The 00s. This archive stretches back to 1998 in some instances, and contains a nearly complete record of all the messages posted to inthe00s.com. You will also find an archive of the messages from inthe70s.com, inthe80s.com, inthe90s.com and amiright.com before they were combined to form the inthe00s.com messageboard.

If you are looking for the active messages, please click here. Otherwise, use the links below or on the right hand side of the page to navigate the archives.

Custom Search



Subject: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 07/21/05 at 5:26 am

(I originally heard this story on "Coast To Coast AM With George Noory" about a week ago, and it's perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in my life. You may choose to believe it or not, but this has got me REALLY nervous.)




2005 WorldNetDaily.com

WASHINGTON – As London recovers from the latest deadly al-Qaida attack that killed at least 50, top U.S. government officials are contemplating what they consider to be an inevitable and much bigger assault on America – one likely to kill millions, destroy the economy and fundamentally alter the course of history, reports Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

According to captured al-Qaida leaders and documents, the plan is called the "American Hiroshima" and involves the multiple detonation of nuclear weapons already smuggled into the U.S. over the Mexican border with the help of the MS-13 street gang and other organized crime groups.

Al-Qaida has obtained at least 40 nuclear weapons from the former Soviet Union – including suitcase nukes, nuclear mines, artillery shells and even some missile warheads. In addition, documents captured in Afghanistan show al-Qaida had plans to assemble its own nuclear weapons with fissile material it purchased on the black market.

In addition to detonating its own nuclear weapons already planted in the U.S., military sources also say there is evidence to suggest al-Qaida is paying former Russian special forces Spetznaz to assist the terrorist group in locating nuclear weapons formerly concealed inside the U.S. by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Osama bin Laden's group is also paying nuclear scientists from Russia and Pakistan to maintain its existing nuclear arsenal and assemble additional weapons with the materials it has invested hundreds of millions in procuring over a period of 10 years.

The plans for the devastating nuclear attack on the U.S. have been under development for more than a decade. It is designed as a final deadly blow of defeat to the U.S., which is seen by al-Qaida and its allies as "the Great Satan."

At least half the nuclear weapons in the al-Qaida arsenal were obtained for cash from the Chechen terrorist allies.

But the most disturbing news is that high level U.S. officials now believe at least some of those weapons have been smuggled into the U.S. for use in the near future in major cities as part of this "American Hiroshima" plan, according to an upcoming book, "The Al Qaeda Connection: International Terrorism, Organized Crime and the Coming Apocalypse," by Paul L. Williams, a former FBI consultant.

According to Williams, former CIA Director George Tenet informed President Bush one month after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that at least two suitcase nukes had reached al-Qaida operatives in the U.S.

"Each suitcase weighed between 50 and 80 kilograms (approximately 110 to 176 pounds) and contained enough fissionable plutonium and uranium to produce an explosive yield in excess of two kilotons," wrote Williams. "One suitcase bore the serial number 9999 and the Russian manufacturing date of 1988. The design of the weapons, Tenet told the president, is simple. The plutonium and uranium are kept in separate compartments that are linked to a triggering mechanism that can be activated by a clock or a call from the cell phone."

According to the author, the news sent Bush "through the roof," prompting him to order his national security team to give nuclear terrorism priority over every other threat to America.

However, it is worth noting that Bush failed to translate this policy into securing the U.S.-Mexico border through which the nuclear weapons and al-Qaida operatives are believed to have passed with the help of the MS-13 smugglers. He did, however, order the building of underground bunkers away from major metropolitan areas for use by federal government managers following an attack.

Bin Laden, according to Williams, has nearly unlimited funds to spend on his nuclear terrorism plan because he has remained in control of the Afghanistan-produced heroin industry. Poppy production has greatly increased even while U.S. troops are occupying the country, he writes. Al-Qaida has developed close relations with the Albanian Mafia, which assists in the smuggling and sale of heroin throughout Europe and the U.S.

Some of that money is used to pay off the notorious MS-13 street gang between $30,000 and $50,000 for each sleeper agent smuggled into the U.S. from Mexico. The sleepers are also provided with phony identification, most often bogus matricula consular ID cards indistinguishable from Mexico's official ID, now accepted in the U.S. to open bank accounts and obtain driver's licenses.

The Bush administration's unwillingness to secure the U.S.-Mexico border has puzzled and dismayed a growing number of activists and ordinary citizens who see it as the No. 1 security threat to the nation. The Minuteman organization is planning a major mobilization of thousands of Americans this fall designed to shut down the entire 2,000-mile border as it did in April with a 23-mile stretch in Arizona.

According to Williams' sources, thousands of al-Qaida sleeper agents have now been forward deployed into the U.S. to carry out their individual roles in the coming "American Hiroshima" plan.

Bin Laden's goal, according to the book, is to kill at least 4 million Americans, 2 million of whom must be children. Only then, bin Laden has said, would the crimes committed by America on the Arab and Muslim world be avenged.

There is virtually no doubt among intelligence analysts al-Qaida has obtained fully assembled nuclear weapons, according to Williams. The only question is how many. Estimates range between a dozen and 70. The breathtaking news is that an undetermined number of these weapons, including suitcase bombs, mines and crude tactical nuclear weapons, have already been smuggled into the U.S. – at least some across the U.S.-Mexico border.

The future plan, according to captured al-Qaida agents and documents, suggests the attacks will take place simultaneously in major cities throughout the country – including New York, Boston, Washington, Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago and Los Angeles.

In response to the G2 Bulletin revelations, Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a citizen action group demanding the U.S. government take control of its borders, said an immediate military presence on the borders is now imperative "to stop the overwhelming influx of unidentified, potentially hostile and seditious persons coming across at an alarming rate."

"Terrorists have carte blanche to carry practically anything they want across our national line at this time," he said. "As ordinary citizens have warned this government for years, the only surprising part about the new information reported here is that nothing apocalyptic from Mexican-border weapons trafficking has yet happened. Terrorism has reared its ugly head in London again these past few days, and as we know all too well we are not immune in this country. At this point, the next attempt to attack America at home is just a matter of 'when,' not 'if.' And our unsecured borders have surely contributed to this threat – yet our government officials continue to fiddle while our nation's margin of security and safety burns away. The president and Congress had better wake up before they have to answer for another devastating terrorist incursion on our own soil."

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/21/05 at 7:51 am

"Coast to Coast AM," eh?

The saucers are coming, the saucers are coming!!
:D

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: Mushroom on 07/21/05 at 10:31 am


"Coast to Coast AM," eh?

The saucers are coming, the saucers are coming!!
:D


Yea, time to activate the Minutemen as members of the National Guard, and arm them with M-1 Tanks, M-60 Machine Guns, and Apache helicopters.  And we need to change the battle helmets from Kevlar to Tin Foil while we are at it.

Of cours,e if the Chechnyians (sp?) had 50+ nukes, why have they not used any of those themselves against Russia?  I would figure they would place their own independence over money.

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 07/21/05 at 7:42 pm


"Coast to Coast AM," eh?

The saucers are coming, the saucers are coming!!
:D
OK, I'll admit that the "Coast To Coast" connection is questionable (and I have used this rationale to try and ease my fears somewhat),  but what is scary is that the story seems so damned plausible, for two reasons:

1.) The MS-13 gang is known to have ties with al-Qaeda. There have been reports that the CIA has seen MS-13's leaders meeting with high-ranking al-Qaeda operatives in their home nation of El Salvador, and that MS-13 has agreed to smuggle al-Qaeda sleeper agents across the Mexican border into the United States.

2.) Our security on our southern border is so porous that you could probably sneak a friggin' elephant into this country without anyone noticing. How hard would it be to smuggle a small nuclear device into the United States?

(I hope to God that you're right, and that this is a bunch of utter nonsense.)

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: ChuckyG on 07/21/05 at 10:06 pm


2.) Our security on our southern border is so porous that you could probably sneak a friggin' elephant into this country without anyone noticing. How hard would it be to smuggle a small nuclear device into the United States?


depends on the type of nuke.  There are nukes that are considered portable, but they're usually the size of a dishwasher (not a suitcase like is so frequently mentioned).  These can be powerful enough to do some serious damage to a city if placed properly. It's probably a little harder to smuggle than drugs.

It's not something someone could build themselves easily. It would have to be ex-Soviet technology.  There's at most a handful of those bombs unaccounted for.  That means it has to be smuggled overseas first, then smuggled into the country.  I doubt they'd ever manage to get more than one or two.

If it's ex-Soviet technology, it's probably not very reliable.  Think about it.  Even if the radiocative material has a half-life of thousands of years, the electronics don't.  Most nuclear weapons need to be retired after a set period of time, otherwise they most likely won't work.  It's also Soviet era electronics.  Soviet electronics are very unreliable.  So now, you're talking about unreliable electronics that might not have worked the first time when it was new, and it's going to be bumped around quite a bit (since a smuggled bomb isn't going to get an air-ride in a tralier truck).  Even if they got it into the country, I doubt it would still work, and I doubt even more, they'd find someone who could repair/maintain it.

I'd be much more worried about convential weapons being used in small areas with high numbers of people.  A bit of plastic explosives properly place would have just as much impact. 

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/21/05 at 10:13 pm


depends on the type of nuke.  There are nukes that are considered portable, but they're usually the size of a dishwasher (not a suitcase like is so frequently mentioned).  These can be powerful enough to do some serious damage to a city if placed properly. It's probably a little harder to smuggle than drugs.

It's not something someone could build themselves easily. It would have to be ex-Soviet technology.  There's at most a handful of those bombs unaccounted for.  That means it has to be smuggled overseas first, then smuggled into the country.  I doubt they'd ever manage to get more than one or two.

If it's ex-Soviet technology, it's probably not very reliable.  Think about it.  Even if the radiocative material has a half-life of thousands of years, the electronics don't.  Most nuclear weapons need to be retired after a set period of time, otherwise they most likely won't work.  It's also Soviet era electronics.  Soviet electronics are very unreliable.  So now, you're talking about unreliable electronics that might not have worked the first time when it was new, and it's going to be bumped around quite a bit (since a smuggled bomb isn't going to get an air-ride in a tralier truck).  Even if they got it into the country, I doubt it would still work, and I doubt even more, they'd find someone who could repair/maintain it.

I'd be much more worried about convential weapons being used in small areas with high numbers of people.  A bit of plastic explosives properly place would have just as much impact. 

Couldn't you make a radioactive fizzler bomb about the size of a suitcase?  Not someting you could level half of Cleveland with, but a bomb with enough juice to irradiate a few city blocks and scare the bejesus out people?  How much would such a device have to weigh?  I mean, if it weighed several hundred pounds, you couldn't disguise it as a suitcase.  You'd look pretty funny trying to haul that sucker through the airport!
:D

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: Mushroom on 07/22/05 at 9:02 am


Couldn't you make a radioactive fizzler bomb about the size of a suitcase?  Not someting you could level half of Cleveland with, but a bomb with enough juice to irradiate a few city blocks and scare the bejesus out people?  How much would such a device have to weigh?  I mean, if it weighed several hundred pounds, you couldn't disguise it as a suitcase.  You'd look pretty funny trying to haul that sucker through the airport!
:D


One thing that people tend to forget when they talk about "portable nukes" is the weight of uranium!

I am sure we have all seen pictures of "Little Boy", the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.  That thing is immense!  And it used over 200 pounds of uranium!  Uranium is so dense, that that "slug" was less then 6 cubic inches!

Let's put this in perspective even more.  Gold (Au on the Periodic Table) is atomic number 72.  Standard Uranium(U on the Periodic Table) is atomic number 92.  It is roughly 10-20% more dense then gold.

Now most people have little if any experience in lifting any large amounts of dense materials.  A single cubic foot of gold weights in at an amazing 1,200 pounds.

Most "suitcase" bombs are roughly the size of a dishwasher, and they weigh in at roughly 1 ton.  They contain roughly 200 pounds of enriched plutonium, and a lot of lead or other dense metal as a shield against the radioactivity.  It takes a forklift to load one onto a truck, and a truck with heavy suspension to drive it around.  These beasts are only "portable" when compared to the even larger ones that are placed into bombers.  In fact, remove the shielding and they are not much difference from those used in an ICBM.

I have had close contact in the past with nuclear weapons.  I have guarded the damned things, and watched as they loaded and unloaded them from bunkers and ships.  Even the smallest nuke (roughly the size of a 27" console TV) weighs in at roughly 1,400 pounds.  If somebody can carry one of those on his back as he crosses the border, he is the baddest muther on the face of the earth!

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: LyricBoy on 07/22/05 at 7:48 pm

Whoever wrote that article has not got clue one as to how nuclear weapons are constructed.

The bit about "keeping the uranium and plutonium in separate compartments"...  Nuclear weapons are not constructed to somehow "combine" or "collide" plutonium with uranium.

We have plutonium bombs and we have uranium bombs.  Now the really NASTY weapons, the dreaded Hydrogen bombs, have lithium components.  They can make a real mess.

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: ChuckyG on 07/22/05 at 8:02 pm

Both excellent points about the size and construction of the weapons.  Most of the ones made are meant to be dropped anyways, which means a plane is involved.

There was talk about "dirty bombs" which weren't meant to destroy, but only spread radiation using spent rods.  Problem with that theory, is that you still need explosives to spread the material, since the radioactive material is not processed enough in order to explode.

Like I said earlier, the whole portable nuclear thing is the least threatening thing these folks can pull.  They're having a hard time even pulling off copycat bombings in London now that the police are paying attention there.  I'd be more scared of that happening here than some nuke of any size going off due to terrorists.  Especially after Congress voted against spending money on securing the rails.  Something I remember Dukakis talking about when he headed up Amtrack right after 2001. 

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: Mushroom on 07/22/05 at 9:11 pm


Whoever wrote that article has not got clue one as to how nuclear weapons are constructed.

The bit about "keeping the uranium and plutonium in separate compartments"...  Nuclear weapons are not constructed to somehow "combine" or "collide" plutonium with uranium.

We have plutonium bombs and we have uranium bombs.  Now the really NASTY weapons, the dreaded Hydrogen bombs, have lithium components.  They can make a real mess.


Actually, one of the easiest ways to detonate nuclear explosives is to simply bring 2 bunches together.  This is known as "Critical Mass".  When enough of a material is brought together, it can explode spontaniously.  "Little Boy" was this type of bomb.  And while normally the same material is used in both components, it is possible to achieve Critical Mass with different materials.  However, the only reason I could think of that it would be used is if there was not enough of any one material to achieve critical mass, so components of several bombs were combined.

The other form uses shaped charges to "implode" the fissible material.  The compression is used when you want to bring a smaller amount of explosive to "Critical Mass".  "Fat Man" was this type of bomb.

Most "Suitcase" type of bombs use the first type of detonation.  This bomb is less fragile, and is a lot more durable.  It also allows it to be made safe much easier, simply by removing the "detonation slug" from the weapon and placing it in a seperate location.  This is not possible in the "implosion" type of bomb.

Uranium and Plutonium bombs are basically the same thing.  The only difference is the type of explosive.  Both are "Fission" bombs.  In more sophisticated explosives of this type, Tritium is used as a "booster", to increase the yield of the explosive.  Lithium is also used, because the detonation of the bomb forces the lithium to ionize, changing it to tritium.

In a "Thermonuclear" (or Hydrogen Bomb), the tritium (or other material like lithium or deuterium) is not used as just a booster.  The fission explosive itself is shaped, so that it forces the tritium to fuse.  It is this fusion that increases the explosive even more.

Subject: Re: AMERICAN HIROSHIMA

Written By: LyricBoy on 07/24/05 at 3:19 pm



Most "suitcase" bombs are roughly the size of a dishwasher, and they weigh in at roughly 1 ton.  They contain roughly 200 pounds of enriched plutonium, and a lot of lead or other dense metal as a shield against the radioactivity.  It takes a forklift to load one onto a truck, and a truck with heavy suspension to drive it around. 


'Shroom,

Even a WW2-era plutonium bomb did not contain such a MASSIVE amount of plutonium (200 lbs???), egads.  "Fat Man" had only 13.6 lbs of the stuff, although the entire device weighed over 10,000 lbs.

And a modern Plutonium "grapefruit", or core of a nuclear warhead, weighs in at about 4 kilograms.

A modern W-88 warhead has the 4kg pit as a core, but total weight comes in at 290 pounds.  Device size is about 32" long and a foot in diameter.

A tad bigger than a suitcase, that's for sure.  But at 150kilotons of power, packs quite a punch. :o


As for the need for heavy lead shielding for Plutonium bombs, that's not true, I think.  Plutonium is radioactive for sure, but it emits alpha and beta radiation, which require the most modest shielding (as opposed to gamma rays which are bad news).  Ths big problem with Plutonium is if you ingest it, then that intense alpha and beta radiation is not good for your innards and you get really, REALLY sick.

Now... once that plutonium pit "goes critical", all heck breaks loose with alpha, beta, gamma radiation like all get out.

Check for new replies or respond here...