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Subject: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: GWBush2004 on 11/29/05 at 7:28 am

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051126/capt.txev10211261853.crawford_war_protest_txev102.jpg?x=380&y=259&sig=oR2oiGrjvAuJhjNcYb.MKA--
Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan waits for people to show up at her book signing near President Bush's ranch on Saturday, Nov. 26, 2005 in Crawford, Texas. Sheehan, whose 24-year-old Casey died in Iraq, called for anti-war activists to return to Crawford this week as Bush celebrated the Thanksgiving holiday. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051126/i/r3949341609.jpg?

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/051126/480/txev10211261853

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 11/29/05 at 9:26 am

man, y'all war supporters sure are harsh on a woman whose son you all managed to get killed on a lie.

there's a lot about cindy sheehan's rhetoric that annoys me, but if there's one thing that's gonna sink the right fast, it's y'all's making widows and then mocking them. keep it up, fellas.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/29/05 at 1:23 pm

Meanwhile back in Washington DC support for the Iraq war climbs to new heights!
::)

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 11/29/05 at 1:27 pm


Meanwhile back in Washington DC support for the Iraq war climbs to new heights!
::)


yes, as jon stewart said on the daily show, our victories in iraq are becoming ever more glorious with each new rousing success.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Billy Florio on 11/29/05 at 4:23 pm

Id have more sympathy for the woman if her son were drafted. 


It's sort of like going to college for the education, but then complaining when there's home work.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 11/29/05 at 4:30 pm


Id have more sympathy for the woman if her son were drafted. 


It's sort of like going to college for the education, but then complaining when there's home work.


Seems to me that part of the unwritten contract between volunteers and the gov't is that they not be asked to fight for somebody's revenge, ego, or oil.  That's why its called the Dept. of DEFENCE.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 11/29/05 at 4:36 pm


Seems to me that part of the unwritten contract between volunteers and the gov't is that they not be asked to fight for somebody's revenge, ego, or oil.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/29/05 at 7:03 pm


Id have more sympathy for the woman if her son were drafted.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: GWBush2004 on 11/30/05 at 8:51 am


Uh...WTF?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Harmonica on 11/30/05 at 11:18 am

Her passion is admirable
Her reasoning is not

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 11/30/05 at 11:38 am


Her passion is admirable
Her reasoning is not


what's the problem with her reasoning? She wants a coherent story about the rationale behind the war. So far we haven't got one. It's like pinning down a blob of mercury. For me it's just an irritant but her son is dead, you know? And she wants to know how come.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 11/30/05 at 6:05 pm


Either you think Casey Sheehan was a complete moron, or he knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the military.


My guess is that he signed up before he knew that Lil' Georgie decided to invade Iraq. 
Her passion is admirable
Her reasoning is not


I'm not sure her reasonings isn't reasonable.  Asking why are we doing this? is a reasonable question.

But since we have done it, the real quesation is, how do we clewan up the mess we have made? And I di hear part of Lil' Georgie's "exit strategy" speach - same old same old.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Harmonica on 11/30/05 at 7:21 pm


what's the problem with her reasoning? She wants a coherent story about the rationale behind the war. So far we haven't got one. It's like pinning down a blob of mercury. For me it's just an irritant but her son is dead, you know? And she wants to know how come.


She's trying to accomplish something based on her son alone.  Now don't get me wrong, I admire that because it shows the enormous amount of love that a mother has for her son.  However, she's no better off than someone trying to put an end to the death penalty based on one excution of a innocent  personal close loved one. 

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/30/05 at 8:22 pm

The whole war in Iraq is silly. Why? There were no WMD's there in the first place..yes Saddam is no longer in power,but honestly, do we need to be in Iraq when the U.N. can send troops to TRY and restore peace?

Hey, the real enemy is hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan...Osama Bin Laden is the real MONSTER...why? Because he and his Al-Qaida henchmen are bombing places all over the world...and I'd bet anything Bin Laden and his Al-Qaida thugs will try to attack America again...

This war in Iraq reminds me a h*ll of a lot of VIETNAM.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: GWBush2004 on 11/30/05 at 9:35 pm


do we need to be in Iraq when the U.N. can send troops to TRY and restore peace?


Something tells me that somebody here doesn't know much about "U.N. troops."

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/30/05 at 9:41 pm


Something tells me that somebody here doesn't know much about "U.N. troops."
I know that the USA sends out troops as PART OF U.N. peacekeeping forces.
But I still think the War in Iraq makes no sense at all.
Neither did the war in Vietnam.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/30/05 at 11:26 pm


I know that the USA sends out troops as PART OF U.N. peacekeeping forces.
But I still think the War in Iraq makes no sense at all.
Neither did the war in Vietnam.

It would make a lot more sense to you if you were an oil executive or a defense contractor. 

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 12/01/05 at 10:14 am


Something tells me that somebody here doesn't know much about "U.N. troops."


you guys spend too much time trying to catch people up on technicalities.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Billy Florio on 12/01/05 at 3:51 pm


you guys spend too much time trying to catch people up on technicalities.


its not a technicality.  Honestly, this could be the basis of someones whole opinion.  This could be the reason why their opinion is wrong...they could just be listening to the News or someone else's opinion, and be repeating the same thing they said without giving it any thought, and not knowing what it even means.  Its a way of picking out blind following. 

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 12/01/05 at 4:03 pm


its not a technicality.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/01/05 at 4:05 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned John (?) Murtha (D-PA), or recent opinion polls showing Bush at an all time low in part because of Iraq.  So it looks like Cindy will be getting more than just 15 minutes.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 12/01/05 at 4:10 pm


I'm surprised no one has mentioned John (?) Murtha (D-PA), or recent opinion polls showing Bush at an all time low in part because of Iraq.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: STAR70 on 12/01/05 at 5:56 pm


I'm surprised no one has mentioned John (?) Murtha (D-PA), or recent opinion polls showing Bush at an all time low in part because of Iraq.  So it looks like Cindy will be getting more than just 15 minutes.


yay!!! CINDY SHEEHAN RULES!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/02/05 at 4:45 pm


it sorta goes without saying. The right is focusing on minutiae because the big picture looks so dam bad. It's boiling down to, exactly what kind of civil war in iraq are the republicans going to end up sponsoring? Will they continue dropping white phosphorous in civilian centers or hand their dirty work over to shiite militias and death squads? will they -- oh! but wait! look over there! a blinking red X! photo-shopped pants! liberal media! it worked before! why isn't it working anymore?!


"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."  Abe Lincoln ?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/02/05 at 10:56 pm


"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/03/05 at 4:31 pm


The problem is when you fool enough of the people to start a war for oil and fail to keep a suffcient number of the people fooled three years later!



Then you hunker down in the bunker and accuse your critics of being unpatriotic.  Same old, same old.  At least Lyndon didn't seek reelectioin.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Billy Florio on 12/03/05 at 8:38 pm


I dunno, from where I sit it looks like "gotcha" stuff. anyway, what exactly was wrong with the characterization of UN troops above? If bush had been able to put together a real coalition there could have been a UN troop contingent in iraq with several nations contributing through the UN. It very much goes to the point of the administration's invasion having little legitimacy, that they couldn't get the UN or even NATO to sign off on it, just the coalition of the bribed.


NATO would have absolutly nothing to do with Iraq...theyre the NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization...plus, the US controls NATO...anything we want from them we get. 

Not that Im defending the war, but we did have a coalition of countries.  Several nations contributed to the cause...it just wasnt through the UN.  Is legitimacy only achived by going through one organization?  Is the UN the rulers of the world that everything must be passed through in order for it to be alright? 

Also, if it was "UN Troops", it would have been just as many Americans and British as there are now.  Not many other nations would send troops...do you think Hungary has anything to contribute?  How bout Taiwan?  It would be the same troops. 

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Matt the Rat76 on 12/03/05 at 8:54 pm

bush don't care about his people the war is over but they still there we should find bin laden when he attacked us on 9-11-01 but he seed troops to Iraq for revenge for his father in the first gulf war i don't get why we should pull out of Iraq by now?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 12/04/05 at 12:18 pm


NATO would have absolutly nothing to do with Iraq...theyre the NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization...plus, the US controls NATO...anything we want from them we get.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Billy Florio on 12/04/05 at 1:48 pm




lol. that's why russia joined, when NATO was originally founded as a defense against russia. when the US went to war in kosovo, it was under the NATO flag. i'm saying that this is an international organization that can lend some legitimacy to military actions. like the UN. its original charter is basically obsolete.


Russia is very much so not a part of NATO.  The Partnership for peace (which was founded in 1994) brought Russia and other Eastern European countries into open dialogue with NATO countries, but after 2 years it turned out to be a huge failure.  Then they allowed a Russian representitive into the chambor to speak their mind on NATO's actions in relations to Russia, but he has no voting power.  All this can be found on NATO's website WWW.NATO.INT or in the 15 page paper I just wrote on NATO Expansion during the Clinton Administration. 
But yes, I agree, it's original charter is obsolete.  And when the US finally did do something with Kosovo, we did go in with NATO.  Nota though, we didnt "go to war"...in fact, we didnt really do much of anything. 




yeah, the "coalition of the bribed." lol. all that stuff was tied in with aid packages, a flagrant quid pro quo. hardly grants the war in iraq legitimacy. and yes, you're defending it. own up! and who's "we"? this is a war of the right, by the right, for the right. yes, the democrats voted for it, but that's just because, alas, they had no spine. thankfully that seems to be changing now...



Im very against the Iraq war and always have been, so Im not defending it.  Im trying though to counteract points being said that are wrong. 

So, there is no legitimacy if other nations join together without UN approval?  If the UN forced nations to join the coalition with promises of aid would it be any better?  Any more legit if the organizing party was someone else?  Legitimacy comes from the agreement of the people...not the agreement of the UN.  The UN has an agenda just like any nation does.  There is no reason why the UN should be given more legitimacy than a nation. 

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/04/05 at 6:41 pm

IMO the War in Iraq is just as NEEDLESS and UGLY as Vietnam was!!
Sorry for the large print. Just that this war is soooo stupid. We captured Saddam, now let's get the h*ll outta Dodge!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/06/05 at 5:01 pm


IMO the War in Iraq is just as NEEDLESS and UGLY as Vietnam was!!
Sorry for the large print. Just that this war is soooo stupid. We captured Saddam, now let's get the h*ll outta Dodge!


But we made this mess, and in all jusatice to the rest of the world should bear a large part of cleaning it up.  Stupid idea? You bet, but a done deal.  How do we pick up the pieces?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/05 at 6:23 pm

Under what criteria can Sheehan be considered "crazy"?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/06/05 at 6:58 pm


Under what criteria can Sheehan be considered "crazy"?
under the criteria that GWBush2004 made up!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Mistress Leola on 12/06/05 at 7:42 pm

Ain't there somethin' kinda... I dunno... ironic (?) about starting a thread to demean someone whose "fifteen minutes are up"?  ::)

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 12/06/05 at 8:45 pm


Ain't there somethin' kinda... I dunno... ironic (?) about starting a thread to demean someone whose "fifteen minutes are up"?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/05 at 11:02 pm

I love how the right-wingers in politics and the punditry are always on about how "We respect your right to dissent, as long as it's appropriate..."  The thing is, I can't think of a single time since this benighted war got started when the right "respected" anybody's "dissent." 
I think they mean "dissent" in the sense of "utter compliance and obsequiousness."
:D

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: ADH13 on 12/07/05 at 2:59 am



So, Cindy Sheehan lives in the dark ages?  She doesn't have a television or a radio?  She doesn't have access to a local newspaper? 

Apparently not, if she needs to travel to Texas to attempt to ask "WHY"... She must have missed all his explanations (whether she agrees with them or not) if she doesn't know why.  What does she think that he is going to say in person that he hasn't already said in his countless speeches??

She doesn't give a damn why... she already knows why.  But I'm sure the book deal, and the various talk show spots she gets come in handy.  It's another publicity, attention seeking stunt. Nothing more, nothing less. ::)

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/07/05 at 10:26 am


Sorry for the large print. Just that this war is soooo stupid. We captured Saddam, now let's get the h*ll outta Dodge!


Is that you, John Murtha?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/07/05 at 8:42 pm


Is that you, John Murtha?

Is Murtha also "crazy"?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tia on 12/08/05 at 11:13 am


Is Murtha also "crazy"?


good question. i think cindy's supposed to be crazy, and murtha's supposed to be the coward? i forget what they called max cleland, who gave three limbs for his country.

the right is just totally out of control.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Mistress Leola on 12/08/05 at 7:23 pm



the right is just totally out of control.



No, I think we just pay far too much attention to the idiots on the Right, just as we pay too much attention to the idiots on the Left.  I mean, it can be entertaining and all, but when it comes to shaping our public debate, we have to be careful not to get caught up in their garbage, or it all becomes a spiral of idiotic, simple-minded rhetoric and a huge waste of time.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/08/05 at 8:39 pm


good question. i think cindy's supposed to be crazy, and murtha's supposed to be the coward? i forget what they called max cleland, who gave three limbs for his country.

the right is just totally out of control.

Dumbya said it over four years ago.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/08/05 at 8:43 pm


Is that you, John Murtha?
No. Murtha is a Pennsylvania guy. I'm from Absecon, NJ. And a lot of people I know here do NOT support this stupid, idiotic, largely unnecessary now that the Beast of Baghdad is in custody..WAR.
Let the Iraqi people settle it now. This is just as utterly STUPID as Vietnam was, fueled by PARANOIA(no, Al-Qaida is not in Iraq!)

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/08/05 at 8:49 pm


Dumbya said it over four years ago.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Mistress Leola on 12/08/05 at 10:48 pm


Yeah, to some folks, Ol' Dumbya and his GOP partner in crime, Cheney, are always a-okay, always right, always fightin' those good fights(sarcasm meant here)...while Halliburton gets bloody rich off of it! Well since Dumbya is outta here in 2008...we might see someone with some INTELLIGENCE in the Oval Office, but I don't hold out much hope if the GOP gets in again!


Yep, cuz Republicans are stoopid and Democrats are smart.  ::)

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: IanWinn on 12/09/05 at 3:17 am

Republicans and Democrats are just two heads of the same hydra-monster.  They don't care about you or me, just getting money into their accounts while the rest of us die of starvation, or die in some God-forsaken land, or die because we set off one of their goon squads in an airport.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/09/05 at 3:56 pm

Yeah, "Land of the (semi) free, home of the brave (but run by chicken-hawks).  Aah, Brave New World, but where's my soma?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/09/05 at 4:02 pm


Republicans and Democrats are just two heads of the same hydra-monster.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: IanWinn on 12/09/05 at 4:11 pm


Yeah, "Land of the (semi) free, home of the brave (but run by chicken-hawks).  Aah, Brave New World, but where's my soma?


Or as the Joker once said, "Ah, brave new world, that has such yutzes in it!"

As radio station KSFO used to say (before they got co-opted by the neo-cons):  WASS - We Are So Screwed!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: witchain on 12/09/05 at 4:47 pm


The Republicans are just much more enthusiastic about their prostitution!


I think sl@ts would be a more appropriate term than wh@res because they do it for free.


Republicans and Democrats are just two heads of the same hydra-monster.


!!!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/09/05 at 4:58 pm


I think sl@ts would be a more appropriate term than wh@res because they do it for free.

!!!

Oh, no sir, they don't do it for free.  They do it for big payoffs.  Corporate money controls our elections and our politics.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/10/05 at 4:42 pm


Oh, no sir, they don't do it for free.  They do it for big payoffs.  Corporate money controls our elections and our politics.


Vermont's landmark election finance reform law is comming up for oral argument at the Supreme Court (by the way, just before Anna Nicole Smith's case comes up - sure hope the honerable justices aren't too distracted).  It imposes both contribution and spending limits and provides public funding.

The basic question is does one's access to free speech depend on one's access to the $$$ to buy air time?  If money buys free speech, and I can't afford to buy it, than isn't mine limited?

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: IanWinn on 12/10/05 at 4:59 pm

There was a time when we did have free speech, even in the days of television.  In local elections, TV studios and radio studios would have debates between the candidates, and or provide free air time for their ads.  Then, the rich people who ran for election (or backed certain candidates) would attempt to pay off the stations so that their candidate got more air time than the opposition.  Most caved in.  Most still do.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/10/05 at 10:07 pm

Anna Nicole Smith.  Oral arguments.  Uh-huh-huh-huh!  He said "oral."  Heh! Heh-heh-heh!

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/12/05 at 4:06 pm


There was a time when we did have free speech, even in the days of television.  In local elections, TV studios and radio studios would have debates between the candidates, and or provide free air time for their ads.  Then, the rich people who ran for election (or backed certain candidates) would attempt to pay off the stations so that their candidate got more air time than the opposition.  Most caved in.  Most still do.


Yes, and the FCC required that they do so, until the rules were changed.  In Vermont, our PBS station still runs debates although the for profit stations don't, except for the presidentials.


Anna Nicole Smith.  Oral arguments.  Uh-huh-huh-huh!  He said "oral."  Heh! Heh-heh-heh!


Unfortunately for Clarance Thomas, Anna herself can't make oral arguments before the court, although he might condscend to see her in chambers  ;).

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/12/05 at 4:10 pm


Unfortunately for Clarance Thomas, Anna herself can't make oral arguments before the court, although he might condscend to see her in chambers

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 12/13/05 at 2:41 am


No, I think we just pay far too much attention to the idiots on the Right, just as we pay too much attention to the idiots on the Left.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/13/05 at 4:16 pm


Fortunately for Anna, Bill Clinton isn't on the supreme court.  ::)

Seriously, you believed Anita Hill?


Actually, its unfortunate for Anna that Bubba isn't on the court.  He might very well be willing to listen to her oral arguments.

And seriously, yes, I do believe Anita Hill.  I also would classify Justice Thomas as an U.T. and an intellectual light weight.  And this is the man who replaced Thrugood Marshall?  Surely we could have done better.

Subject: Re: Crazy Cindy Sheehan's 15 minutes are up

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/13/05 at 9:30 pm


Fortunately for Anna, Bill Clinton isn't on the supreme court.

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