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Subject: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mushroom on 12/02/05 at 10:23 am

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2339892005

Well, earlier this year we had a lot said about an Aussie girl that got 20 years for smuggling pot into Bali.  And because she was a beautiful blonde surfer, everybody all ove rwas talking about how horrible it was.

In this case, we had a male Aussie citizen who was born in Vietnam.  And we had hardly anything said about the matter at all.

Hopefully this will teach them to not smuggle drugs, if nothing else.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/03/05 at 12:05 pm


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2339892005

Well, earlier this year we had a lot said about an Aussie girl that got 20 years for smuggling pot into Bali.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: zcrito on 12/03/05 at 12:08 pm


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2339892005

Well, earlier this year we had a lot said about an Aussie girl that got 20 years for smuggling pot into Bali.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/03/05 at 12:14 pm


Meanwhile, the US is set to carry out the 1000th execution since capital punishment was reintroduced in 1976.


Talk about completly irrelevent.  I'm surprised they didn't throw in a "save Tookie!" line.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mushroom on 12/03/05 at 2:51 pm


Why not a quick run down of all countries that still have capital punishment ?


Well, I did find this list.  It lists some of the countries that admit to Capitol Punishment, and the numbers that they claim to have executed in 2004:

Country                              Executions
1 People's Republic of China    3,400+
2 Iran                                  159+
3 Vietnam                            64+
4 USA                                  59
5 Saudi Arabia                      33+
6 Pakistan                            15+
7 Kuwait                              9+
8 Bangladesh                        7+
9 Egypt                              6+
10 Singapore                        6+
11 Yemen                          6+
12 Belarus                          5+

In short, China executed 3 times more in one year, then we have in the last 29 years!  Iran executed roughly 3 times the number of people in one year then we did.  And don't forget, this is all they will admit to.  I am quite sure that a lot of those countries (and others) executed a lot of people they will never admit to.  And don't forget the people "executed" by organizations that are not nation-states.

But this was not intended to be a commentary on the death penalty.  It was intended to show the apathy when some people are executed, and not others.  And how you can have outrage when a pretty blonde bimbo gets 20 years in jail, and at the same time an immigrant man is executed, and nobody says anything about it at all.

Myself, I have no problem.  He did break their laws, and he was a criminal who was trafficing in drugs.  In fact, I respect him a lot more because at least he had the guts to admit what he did, unlike "Miss Surfer" who to this day denies what she did.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Tia on 12/03/05 at 2:55 pm

iran! pakistan! saudi arabia! such charming bedfellows the right wing has america lying with.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/03/05 at 4:09 pm


iran! pakistan! saudi arabia! such charming bedfellows the right wing has america lying with.


I was thinking the same thing. 

The articles I read about this state that the Austrailian Gov't did appeal for clemancy.

I would also suggest that the fact that those of us opposed to capital punishment (if you ain't got the capital, you get the punishment) don't make an issue of every execution in no way suggests that we condone some of them.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what the point to this is.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/04/05 at 4:07 am


iran! pakistan! saudi arabia! such charming bedfellows the right wing has america lying with.

:-Same stuff here.  You here all the time from the anti-death penalty crowd about blacks being executed more often, but you never hear anything from them about the huge gender gap on death row.  It's 96% male.
I don't think there should be a "death row" because I'm against capital punishment.  However, is the ratio because males commit 96% of the capital offenses, or are women who commit capital crimes less likely to receive a death sentence?

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Powerslave on 12/04/05 at 7:43 am

The Australian Government did appeal for clemency for Nguyen, but in the end he was caught in Singapore and therefore ajudged according to Singapore law. As Mushroom said, earlier this year an Australian girl got 30 years for smuggling marihuana into Indonesia (15 years on appeal), and three months ago a beauty model got busted in the same country with two tabs of ecstacy. She got three months prison. It was because her case got so much attention that brought Van Nguyen's case to public notice. He had been in Singapore on death row since 2002, but we only heard about it three months ago.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/04/05 at 8:42 am


iran! pakistan! saudi arabia! such charming bedfellows the right wing has america lying with.


Even a stopped watch is right twice a day.  Canada ain't exactly a country I want to be with.

And it's not all "right-wing."  Since the most recent USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll shows 64% of Americans support the death penalty.  And it's not all "right wing" states neither.

Numbers of executions per state since the supreme court reinstated the death penalty in 1976:

Texas - 355
Virginia - 94
Oklahoma - 79
Missouri - 66
Florida - 60
Georgia - 39
North Carolina - 38
South Carolina, Alabama - 34 each
Louisiana, Arkansas - 27 each
Arizona - 22
Ohio - 19
Indiana - 16
Delaware - 14
Illinois - 12
Nevada, California - 11 each
Mississippi, Utah - 6 each
Maryland, Washington - 4 each
Nebraska, Pennsylvania - 3 each
Kentucky, Montana, Oregon - 2 each
Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, New Mexico, Tennessee, Wyoming - 1 each
US government - 3

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Tia on 12/04/05 at 11:59 am

lol! you don't want to be in a list with canada, but saudi arabia, that's fine.  :D

yeah, a lot of people support the death penalty but it's shallow support, i think. recall the repubs tried to make the death penalty a wedge issue here in virginia -- a very conservative state -- and got their heads handed to them. (if you'll pardon the execution-y expression...) i think a lot of people have bigger fish to fry than making sure that we remain the last industrialized country in the world to still implement such a barbaric practice.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/04/05 at 12:27 pm


i think. recall the repubs tried to make the death penalty a wedge issue here in virginia -- a very conservative state -- and got their heads handed to them.


November 04, 2005:

"Half of all voters (51%) say Kilgore is closer to their views on the Death Penalty. Thirty-three percent (33%) say Kaine holds an opinion closer to their own."

Link: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Virginia%20Governor_November%204.htm

This was Rasmussen's final poll of the Virginia governor's race before the election, it had Kaine winning by 3 percentage points despite the majority liking Kilgore on the death penalty.  So that probably proves your first point about the death penalty support being shallow, but I imagine it goes the same for both end.  My guess is not ever the majority of people who oppose the death penalty agree with the people who stand outside of prisons crying and holding candlelight viduals for convicted serial killers....looking Stanley "Tookie" Williaims.

The death penalty isn't high on really anyone's list.  With the economy and the war on terror, who has time to make a big deal about such a trivial issue?  Oh yeah, Amnesty International.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: limblifter on 12/04/05 at 12:56 pm


Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/04/05 at 1:54 pm


I'm not stupid enough to paint your whole country with the same brush because of the actions of a few.


Of course I'm going to generalize when I speak of an entire nation.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/04/05 at 3:46 pm

I must say, the point of this thread alludes me, and seemingly many others, since there is no point.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: limblifter on 12/04/05 at 4:11 pm


Of course I'm going to generalize when I speak of an entire nation.


Which only proves once again just how ignorant you are.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/04/05 at 6:51 pm

My guess is if GWB was forced to live in any one of the twelve death penalty countries Mushroom listed or Canada, he would choose Canada above any of those twelve.  He may be ill-informed enough to pick Singapore, but he would be mighty sorry.  Conservatives are big on Singapore because it's big on law and order and is alleged to have a "free market."  Speaking of Singapore, it boggles my mind how anyone could be so stupid as to bring two tabs of Ecstacy into a city that doesn't even allow you to possess one stick of chewing gum!  Sheesh!

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 12/04/05 at 7:33 pm

I don't know if you have heard about this story, but I thought it might be relevant to this thread:


11-Year-Old Interviewed in Glitter Case

Wed Nov 30, 7:48 AM ET

VUNG TAU, Vietnam - Vietnamese police said Wednesday they have interviewed a second girl under age 13 who alleged she had sex with former British rock star Gary Glitter.

The 11-year-old girl, from the southern city of Can Tho, told investigators she had traveled with her aunt to the seaside city of Vung Tau earlier this year and met Glitter at his rented home, said Lt. Col. Nguyen Duc Trinh, deputy head of the police investigation department in Ba Ria-Vung Tau province.

Medical tests on the girl showed evidence of sexual intercourse, though it was unclear with whom, Trinh said.

Glitter, 61, whose real name is Paul Francis Gadd, is being held for at least three months in Phuoc Co prison outside Vung Tau on suspicion of engaging in obscene acts with child

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/04/05 at 8:31 pm


I don't know if you have heard about this story, but I thought it might be relevant to this thread:


11-Year-Old Interviewed in Glitter Case


Disgusting.  I knew exactly why Glitter was moving to SE Asia, specifically Cambodia.  He thought he could have himself an endless pediphiliac sex tour by exploiting desperately poor families in these countries.  Glitter is a sick man.  What he needed to do after his arrest is get himself chemically castrated and hire security to make sure he stayed out of trouble.  I don't know why Glitter got expelled from Cambodia, whether it was for pediphiliac activities or something else.  If the Vietnamese sentence him to life in prison, I think the British embassy should say, "Tough sh(t, Gary, you had it coming!"
>:(

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/05/05 at 3:18 am


Which only proves once again just how ignorant you are.


Guess again.

The reality is it's the reverse.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Powerslave on 12/05/05 at 8:26 am


My guess is if GWB was forced to live in any one of the twelve death penalty countries Mushroom listed or Canada, he would choose Canada above any of those twelve.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Powerslave on 12/05/05 at 8:34 am

From www.ratbags.com/rsoles:

"Death penalties have been very much in the news over the last week, with the US having its 1000th judicial killing since the Supreme Court let the executioners out of the dungeons in 1976, and a 25-year-old Australian being hanged in Singapore for carrying drugs. I believe that murderers and rapists should be severely punished and as someone with children and a grandson I have very little sympathy for drug smugglers, but killing the offenders serves no purpose. It deters nobody, causes immeasurable harm to the families of the dead people, and demeans a civilised society. In the case of Van Nyugen in Singapore, the only results were that less than 400 grams of heroin was stopped from getting to Australia, a young man is dead, and his mother has to spend the rest of her life mourning. Her son was greedy, stupid and callously endangered the lives of many people, but if we executed everyone who met those criteria we would need extra executioners to handle the drunken drivers, bosses with unsafe factories, manufacturers of dangerous or faulty goods, and politicians who commit soldiers to foreign wars on false premises based on poor intelligence.

Supporters of the death penalty always like to talk about its deterrent effect, as if anyone ever expects to get caught while committing a crime. It was interesting to see a spokesman for some pro-death lobby group in the US respond when asked whether he was concerned about the thousand executions. He replied that it was a drop in the ocean compared to the 600,000 murders in the USA since 1976, and it was obvious that he couldn't detect the irony in what he was saying. If it is such an effective deterrent, why are there so many murders? In the case of Van Nyugen, any possibility of doing some good by using him as a witness to convict the people who financed him and were going to distribute the heroin in Australia died with him. The next batch of couriers will be told not to fall asleep at Changi airport while waiting to change planes, and nothing will have been achieved in the "war on drugs". There are nine Australians on trial right now in Indonesia facing possible death sentences for carrying heroin, and they went there while the newspapers were full of stories about a highly publicised drug trafficking trial. They were not deterred by the possible penalty, and the fools who will inevitably be chosen to replace them probably won't be deterred either."

--

What exactly is the rationale of the death penalty, anyway, and why does America persist with it when so many other civilized nations dispensed with it around the same time it was reinstated there?

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: limblifter on 12/05/05 at 10:24 am


Guess again.

The reality is it's the reverse.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mushroom on 12/05/05 at 11:26 am


I must say, the point of this thread alludes me, and seemingly many others, since there is no point.

The articles I read about this state that the Austrailian Gov't did appeal for clemancy.


The point I was trying to make is how "the public" decides who is "good enough" for public outcry about something, and who is not worth being noticed.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Tia on 12/05/05 at 11:43 am

Why do people go around saying "but that is their culture, we must accept it" when it comes to one thing (like something they agree with), then scream out how horrible a culture is when it does something they oppose?

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: GWBush2004 on 12/05/05 at 11:47 am


That's why there are still people in your country that believe that Iraq had something to do with 9-11.


Kind of sounds like generalizing.

Umm, yeah. Is this your feable attempt at making fun of the canadian education system? ;D You do realize that we have private schools up here as well?

Nope.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: limblifter on 12/05/05 at 1:50 pm


Kind of sounds like generalizing.


It's not. Ya see there's a difference between me saying that there are some people in your country, and saying that all of the people in your country.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/05/05 at 4:54 pm




Educated at a government school?

Yes...and you?
Here is the irony.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mushroom on 12/05/05 at 4:56 pm


That's why there are still people in your country that believe that Iraq had something to do with 9-11. "Der, it's a muslim country, and since muslims are terrorists they must have had something to do with it."

It's not. Ya see there's a difference between me saying that there are some people in your country, and saying that all of the people in your country.


Actually, people who really paid attention to what was going on all knew that Iraq was not directly responsible for 9/11.

However, even before 9/11, the Saddam administration was an active suporter of other terrorist groups.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: La Sine Pesroh on 12/05/05 at 7:19 pm


Disgusting.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mistress Leola on 12/05/05 at 7:32 pm

News organizations feature human interest stories that their audience will find interesting.  And basically, that's what these stories boil down to for the large majority of people -- human interest.  It's not as though most people reading these stories are seriously interested in examining issues of jurisprudence and due process as they apply to tourists visiting foreign nations.  It's just a juicy story.

And in the human interest mass market, pretty blonde girls trump your average joe.  Its not even necessarily a racial or ethnic issue.  A hot Vietnamese woman would probably get more press than a homely blonde.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/05/05 at 7:37 pm


News organizations feature human interest stories that their audience will find interesting.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: Mistress Leola on 12/05/05 at 11:28 pm


I tell beautiful women this, invariably the say:
a. They're not beautiful.
b. They claim they do not have it easy and go on with a litany of petty problems.

Sure.


Well, other people's problems are always petty.  It's poor us who got all them real, hard troubles that nobody but Jesus don't hardly knows or understands.  ::)

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/05 at 1:59 am


Well, other people's problems are always petty.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: McDonald on 12/06/05 at 12:48 pm


Canada ain't exactly a country I want to be with.


Speaking as a Canadian, the feeling is mutual.

Have you ever been to Canada? If so, which parts? Have you ever left the United States at all? I'm curious.

Subject: Re: Australian executed in Singapore

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/05 at 11:18 pm


Speaking as a Canadian, the feeling is mutual.

Have you ever been to Canada? If so, which parts? Have you ever left the United States at all? I'm curious.

Well, I'm not widely travelled myself, but I can tell you one thing, travel to other nations and other cultures cannot broaden your mind if you don't want it to.  I've met people who have been to five of seven continents, speak three languages, and have ridden an ass down the old Silk Road...but when you hear them talk, you'd think you were listening to Archie Bunker. 
There's a Zen saying:  The only Zen you obtain by climbing to the top of the mountain is the Zen you bring with you."

You see, maybe GWB has rambled from antipode to antipode from Auckland to St. Johns and arrived at his vews based on a plethora of experience with world's peoples and their ways.  Or...maybe he'll just tell you he has.  Either way, are you going to agree with him?

The notion that first-hand experience enriches your soul is too widely assumed.

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