I seriously hate how internationals in this country are treated. I've had to see first-hand what it's like with my fiance.  First of all, it costs a lot just to be able to come over to the U.S.  If your on a student visa, that means you have to be a full-time student.  But you also have to pay like $3,000 extra just for being an international student.  Then it's illegal to work, unless it's an on-campus job.  But tons of other international students need on-campus jobs, so you only get about 10 hours a week.  And the boss has to send all these forms back to your country before you get paid, which is most likely not until the end of the semester.  So you try to find work for cash, even though it's illegal but how the f*ck else do u pay off yor tuition, rent, bills, etc.  But if yor in the wrong part of the country, nobody will hire you for cash cuz they don't wanna get caught.  So it's time to apply for the work permit so you can work legally.  But the work permit costs at least $500 to apply for.....
And so the story goes.  And I'm not too happy with the new legislation Congress is trying to pass.  One of my fiance's friends, who lost his student status and has been living in the U.S. illegally for like 10 years, decided to kill himself over this new law.  Very sad story:

EDMOND - A 32-year-old man from Bangladesh died Tuesday when he was hit by a north-bound train in Edmond.
The victim was identified as Abul Maniruzzaman, who lived alone in an Oklahoma City apartment, said Glynda Chu, Edmond police spokeswoman.
Maniruzzaman was lying on the railroad tracks near Thatcher Street about 5 a.m.
"The engineer first thought it was trash on the track," Chu said. "He then saw his coat blow up and tried to stop."
The Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway train was empty at the time of the incident.
The medical examiner will test the body for alcohol and drugs, Chu said.
"We probably will never know why he was on the tracks," she said.
Maniruzzaman came to Oklahoma in 1993 on a student visa. Chu said he was not a current University of Central Oklahoma student

But we ARE a nation of immigrants!!!  "Give us you tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free...I lift my lamp by the golden door."  Yeah, right.

The history of our immigration laws reads like a study in racism, eugenics, and zinophobia. 

t.

The history of our immigration laws reads like a study in racism, eugenics, and zinophobia. 



The worst is each successive assilmilated population uses the same arguments against new immigrants
that was used to argue against their own parents, grandparents, etc.  It is the height of hypocracy and
ignorance.

But we ARE a nation of immigrants!!!  "Give us you tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free...I lift my lamp by the golden door."  Yeah, right.

The history of our immigration laws reads like a study in racism, eugenics, and zinophobia. 



What is zinophobia?

I think Carlos means xenophobia, which is the fear and mistrust of races/ethnicities other than your own.

I think Carlos means xenophobia, which is the fear and mistrust of races/ethnicities other than your own.


I'm WASP-ophobic.

I'm WASP-ophobic.


Is that supposed to be funny?

...are Bogus Journey.

What is zinophobia?

Fear and hatred of Howard Zinn!
http://www.delcanton.com/images/documentary_dvd_howard_zinn_moving_train.jpg

Remember, the current problems with "illegal immigration" shall persist so long as corporations control the country and there is no international worker solidarity. Illegal immigrants are only the flotsam and jetsam of imperial barbarism that has aggressed from the pinnacles of power for hundreds of years. You can bash the immigrants all day and all night and never see the root of the problem.

Fear and hatred of Howard Zinn!



LMAO  ;D

Is that supposed to be funny?


It's a joke, albeit a bad one.

I don't have much experience with Protestants or knowledge of them, actually. I'd like to know more about them. I personally think it's funny that I live in a very Protestant country yet have no experience with white Protestants as friends, actually. I mean, for the sake of goodness, I live in NJ and my school is mostly Catholic and Jewish with some Unitarians and Congregationalists mixed in. Not that I'm WASP-ophobic. But I'm phobic of those WASPs from Connecticut with names like Thurston Moorewood VIII who drink too much hard liquor.

It's a joke, albeit a bad one.

I don't have much experience with Protestants or knowledge of them, actually. I'd like to know more about them. I personally think it's funny that I live in a very Protestant country yet have no experience with white Protestants as friends, actually. I mean, for the sake of goodness, I live in NJ and my school is mostly Catholic and Jewish with some Unitarians and Congregationalists mixed in. Not that I'm WASP-ophobic. But I'm phobic of those WASPs from Connecticut with names like Thurston Moorewood VIII who drink too much hard liquor.


I have a very waspy name.  Wallace Alexander Sparks III

This seems to go back to your apparent difficulty seeing the world outside of yourself..

I've never been to the Northeast, but I have no fear about Italians, Poles etc.

I have a very waspy name.  Wallace Alexander Sparks III

This seems to go back to your apparent difficulty seeing the world outside of yourself..

I've never been to the Northeast, but I have no fear about Italians, Poles etc.


Yet you're not a stereotypical Connecticut WASP, IMO. I've met some nice ones of them, but the whole prep school culture thing ticks me off more than a little. I don't think the NE is the center of the universe, outside of Jersey and maybe Baltimore it's one of the worst parts of the country...pretension and more pretension.

I sort of want to go south to see it and get it more. Where should I go to experience it best?

Yet you're not a stereotypical Connecticut WASP, IMO. I've met some nice ones of them, but the whole prep school culture thing ticks me off more than a little. I don't think the NE is the center of the universe, outside of Jersey and maybe Baltimore it's one of the worst parts of the country...pretension and more pretension.

I sort of want to go south to see it and get it more. Where should I go to experience it best?


Well you are in Jersey, so the closest area for you would be Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia, and I've never been to any of those places.  Mobile, Alabama is a nice town, I like any of Louisiana myself.. Here in Texas Dallas is a cool place and definitely Austin(but it feels more Western and less South).  Austin is a liberal city actually. 

Louisiana is my fave southern state though.  The food is wonderful, its more diverse, the people are a little bit more laid back(you don't find as much of the moralist ultra-baptist attitudes), and this is just my interest here but I loooove Louisiana girls lol.

Well you are in Jersey, so the closest area for you would be Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia, and I've never been to any of those places.  Mobile, Alabama is a nice town, I like any of Louisiana myself.. Here in Texas Dallas is a cool place and definitely Austin(but it feels more Western and less South).  Austin is a liberal city actually. 

Louisiana is my fave southern state though.  The food is wonderful, its more diverse, the people are a little bit more laid back(you don't find as much of the moralist ultra-baptist attitudes), and this is just my interest here but I loooove Louisiana girls lol.


I've known some pretty funky Louisianans. It's its own country in some ways, it seems. It's also more gay-friendly without being tacky like Florida gay-friendly areas.

Don't generalize about all Northerners being jerks and having the same attitudes, New York and New England give us a baaad name. Us Jerseyans have an attitude but are less elitist, except about things like food and the beach, and generally more friendly and less money-obsessed. The same thing applies to Philly and Baltimore.

I've known some pretty funky Louisianans. It's its own country in some ways, it seems. It's also more gay-friendly without being tacky like Florida gay-friendly areas.

Don't generalize about all Northerners being jerks and having the same attitudes, New York and New England give us a baaad name. Us Jerseyans have an attitude but are less elitist, except about things like food and the beach, and generally more friendly and less money-obsessed. The same thing applies to Philly and Baltimore.


Yeah it is.  They have parishes, not counties. Also every other U.S. state's legal system is based on English common law, whereas the Louisiana legal system is based on Napoleonic law(for obvious reasons).

Don't get fooled though, its still the south and there are still rednecks.  Get outside of New Orleans, Baton Rouge or Shreveport and you don't find much more tolerance for gays than any other southern State.

And i know not all northerners are that way. My best friend from high school is from Long Island.

Yeah it is.  They have parishes, not counties. Also every other U.S. state's legal system is based on English common law, whereas the Louisiana legal system is based on Napoleonic law(for obvious reasons).

Don't get fooled though, its still the south and there are still rednecks.  Get outside of New Orleans, Baton Rouge or Shreveport and you don't find much more tolerance for gays than any other southern State.

And i know not all northerners are that way. My best friend from high school is from Long Island.


Long Island might as well be its own country.

Long Island might as well be its own country.


LOL why do you say that? :P

LOL why do you say that? :P


It takes like ten hours to get in and out of on the highways and is surrounded on all sides by water.

It takes like ten hours to get in and out of on the highways and is surrounded on all sides by water.


True and whats ironic is they think NYC is the definition of what American is, but they couldn't be further from the truth.  The place is completely different from the rest of the country..

True and whats ironic is they think NYC is the definition of what American is, but they couldn't be further from the truth.  The place is completely different from the rest of the country..


Jersey and the Island are pretty different from Manhattan and NE Brooklyn, as well.

LI is a nightmare to get in and out of, I would never live there. We go there for Thanksgiving at my great-aunt's. I hate the L.I.E. That, and Long Island is near exclusively suburban and more isolated than Jersey.

Jersey and the Island are pretty different from Manhattan and NE Brooklyn, as well.

LI is a nightmare to get in and out of, I would never live there. We go there for Thanksgiving at my great-aunt's. I hate the L.I.E. That, and Long Island is near exclusively suburban and more isolated than Jersey.


Do you think the congestion of the East Coast is why 95% of the cultures of the US are east of the 100th meridian?

OMG! 
My fiance just went to apply for a job at an Indian restaurant that's opening nearby us.  The manager is an Indian guy, and he just told my fiance that he would only hire WHITE PEOPLE (he actually said this!) to be waiters, but *maybe* he'll get a job in the kitchen.  That's bullsh*t!!!!!!!

OMG! 
My fiance just went to apply for a job at an Indian restaurant that's opening nearby us.  The manager is an Indian guy, and he just told my fiance that he would only hire WHITE PEOPLE (he actually said this!) to be waiters, but *maybe* he'll get a job in the kitchen.  That's bullsh*t!!!!!!!


I tried to apply to be a busboy at a Mexican resturaunt when I was 16, and they told me "you have to be bi-lingual".  Which is code for "we're not gonna hire a white guy here".

But I showed THOSE b@stards porque yo hablo espa

I tried to apply to be a busboy at a Mexican resturaunt when I was 16, and they told me "you have to be bi-lingual".  Which is code for "we're not gonna hire a white guy here".


Yeah a lot of times you'll see that happening with small restaurants, which is why you would think my fiance woulda gotten the job at the Indian restaurant.  I guess that guy is just racist against his own kind or something

All this talk about immigration right now are directed at Mexicans. What about Cubans? It is just fine that any Cuban who reaches the shores of the U.S. are free to stay but if you are from Mexico, well, then you have to go home. Sounds like a double standard to me. First it was the Irish-"Irish need not apply", then it was the people from Eastern Europe (the Poles, Russians, etc.), then it was the Italians, and now it is the Mexicans. This whole thing smells very racest to me.


FYI: When my great-great-great (?) grandfather decided to bring his family over here from Poland, he know that the quotas from Poland were very small, so he packed up his family and moved to Germany, where the quotas were higher, and changed the family name. He got a quota from Germany and brought his family here to the states.




Cat

Yeah a lot of times you'll see that happening with small restaurants, which is why you would think my fiance woulda gotten the job at the Indian restaurant.  I guess that guy is just racist against his own kind or something


That's something that can't really be controlled though.  That's the Indian guy's restaurant and he reserves the right to hire anyone he pleases.  It's kind of like Hooters.  You rarely see anyone who wouldn't look good stretching out an infant onesie working there, do you?  It's elitist, sexist, whatever-ist, but it's done and you can't stop them.  You could probably boycott the restaurant though, but I doubt the owner will care  :-\\



All this talk about immigration right now are directed at Mexicans. What about Cubans? It is just fine that any Cuban who reaches the shores of the U.S. are free to stay but if you are from Mexico, well, then you have to go home. Sounds like a double standard to me. First it was the Irish-"Irish need not apply", then it was the people from Eastern Europe (the Poles, Russians, etc.), then it was the Italians, and now it is the Mexicans. This whole thing smells very racest to me.


It's also racist against Asians.  Took me 15 years to become a citizen.  Now the immigration law being slapped around in Congress says that it'll take the illegal "guest workers" even less time to become citizens. 

That's something that can't really be controlled though.  That's the Indian guy's restaurant and he reserves the right to hire anyone he pleases.  It's kind of like Hooters.  You rarely see anyone who wouldn't look good stretching out an infant onesie working there, do you?  It's elitist, sexist, whatever-ist, but it's done and you can't stop them.  You could probably boycott the restaurant though, but I doubt the owner will care  :-\\



Actually its illegal to discriminate in hiring based on race, gender, etc.

Actually its illegal to discriminate in hiring based on race, gender, etc.


It is, but you would probably know how employers can get around that ;)

It is, but you would probably know how employers can get around that ;)


You mean like telling someone you "have to be bilingual to work here" assuming that its more likely than not they won't speak Spanish because they aren't Hispanic?

You mean like telling someone you "have to be bilingual to work here" assuming that its more likely than not they won't speak Spanish because they aren't Hispanic?


Exactly.  Or telling them simply that the "position has been filled" or that "your experience is not enough".  That, unfortunately, falls within the realm of "legal" hiring practices.

You know what, though, I can understand the "bilingual" thing.  I used to work at a restaurant where the cooks/busboys spoke very little English and it was REALLY hard to get across to them what we needed.


That is a good point I suppose.. but I'm not sure if that was the reason why or not in my case.

It's also racist against Asians.  Took me 15 years to become a citizen.  Now the immigration law being slapped around in Congress says that it'll take the illegal "guest workers" even less time to become citizens. 



You are right. I forgot to mention the Asians (sorry  :-[ ). There was a wonderful episode of M*A*S*H where they were trying to get a baby (with an American dad and a Korean mother) to the U.S. but the U.S. didn't recognize the baby. The Korean authority on the matter said that other countries recognized the offspring of their military personal but not the U.S. Even though the show was fiction, I'm sure there is some validity to it.

Like I said before, it is VERY racest in my book no matter how you look at it.



Cat

Up here in Massachusetts, our resident white supremicist talk radio host, Howie Carr, has been whipping up the usual race hatred. He says illegal aliens are terrorists who only want to come here to commit crimes and go on welfare. He is not talking about Asian or European immigrants either. His wrath is reserved exclousively for Latin Americans, otherwise why would he play sound clips of Speedy Gonzales and "You Can Be Free in America" from West Side Story.

So it is ironic that Howie Carr's book, The Brothers Bulger, now on the NYT top 10 list is on one of about three subjects on which I agree with the SOB. The Bulger Brothers, William "Billy" Bulger (former leader of the Democrat politcal machine in the Mass state legislature, and former president of UMass), and his Irish Mafia brother James "Whitey" Bulger, currently at large and wanted by the FBI on numerous felonious charges, are both scum. S-C-U-M scum, I tells ya!

However, I discourage anyone on the strongest possible terms from purchasing Howie Carr's book. I don't like the idea of Howie getting the royalties. Carr, host of "The Howie Carr" show based at Boston's AM 680 WRKO, and a columnist for Boston's tabloid trash Newspaper, "The Boston Herald," has been a pox on the region since the 1980s. He makes a show of fomenting class and race-based hatred of all who are not white, conservative, and Republican-voting. The only reason he is less scummy than the Bulger brothers is Howie has not the the corrupted political power Billy has, and he never murdered anyone or pulled anyone's teeth out with pliers, or put anyone's hand in a toaster, like Whitey.
::)

I don't see any problem with immigrants who want to come here and work.  The key word, though, is WORK.  I don't think they should be entitled to government assistance. (unless they are working and contributing via taxes)

America is not the only country who practices the theory that you have to meet certain criteria in order to work.  My mother and step-father moved to England in the early 90's, and they were not allowed to work there, except on a US Military base or US embassy, etc.  And they WERE there legally.

Anyway, I don't quite understand what all the fuss is about.  If we make it so immigrants CAN come here legally and work, why shouldn't it be a felony to hire illegals?  The only reason a company would WANT to hire illegals is to avoid paying taxes. (I would assume this is the only reason an immigrant would want to BE an illegal as well) And I think that should be a felony.

Now, I don't want to stereotype... keep in mind as you read this that my husband is Mexican and he has the same thoughts on this as I do.  Here in CA, over half of the violent crimes and gang related crimes and drug crimes are committed by Mexicans.  So, when we start letting them all in, what do we do with these bad apples??  Do we support them in our correctional facilities?  Do we send them back?  Will Mexico TAKE them back?  It seems to be that with all ethnic groups, those who have steady jobs are less likely to commit crimes.  This is part of the reason I feel that they should be welcome here as long as they are working.  If they go too long without working, I think they should be sent back.  We sure as he!! can't afford to support them!!

Again, I must remind one and all, the issue isn't immigrants versus natives, illegals versus legals, or Mexico versus the United States.  It is LABOR versus CAPITAL. The way the powers that be divide one worker from another by ethnicity, nationality,or citizenship is only to distract all workers from the fact that the bosses have no loyalty to you whether you're American, Mexican, Indian, or Chinese. The goal of CAPTAL is to drive down wages, increase desperation, and keep the workers fighting amongst themselves. Bust unions, destroy solidarity at all costs. The capitalist (the real capitalists, not faux-capitalists with mutual funds) state explicitly they don't care where the money comes from as long as it is the most return for the least investment. The corporations and the billionaires are the least patriotic among us. They have less loyalty to the United States than an undocumented Mexican drywaller who sends his pay to his family back in Monterrey.

Funny after all the cakewalks and victory rhetoric over the fall of "Communism" in the late 20th century, the answer for LABOR still boils down to
WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!
8)

This country is supposed to be a place where people can live, work, and be FREE. Da*nit, this nation was founded and built by immigrants....and the right-wing elitist snobs are trying to ruin it all for those who want to come here and earn a decent living, rather than remain hopelessly dirt-poor in Latin America and the Third World countries!


Workers of the world UNITE!
TAKE THE POWER BACK!!!

Again, I must remind one and all, the issue isn't immigrants versus natives, illegals versus legals, or Mexico versus the United States.  It is LABOR versus CAPITAL. The way the powers that be divide one worker from another by ethnicity, nationality,or citizenship is only to distract all workers from the fact that the bosses have no loyalty to you whether you're American, Mexican, Indian, or Chinese. The goal of CAPTAL is to drive down wages, increase desperation, and keep the workers fighting amongst themselves. Bust unions, destroy solidarity at all costs. The capitalist (the real capitalists, not faux-capitalists with mutual funds) state explicitly they don't care where the money comes from as long as it is the most return for the least investment. The corporations and the billionaires are the least patriotic among us. They have less loyalty to the United States than an undocumented Mexican drywaller who sends his pay to his family back in Monterrey.

Funny after all the cakewalks and victory rhetoric over the fall of "Communism" in the late 20th century, the answer for LABOR still boils down to
WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!
8)



Applause. You are so right. And many people are too busy fighting against one another that they don't see who the "real" enemy is.




Cat

What is zinophobia?


it means you don't drink zinfendel!!!

I worked in international educaiton for years and part of my job was maintaining a database of student throiugh a government server.
I also counseled scholars and other travellers on immigration law.
1. it was nearly impossible to deal with 5 years ago.
2. i have talked face to face with people that were considering breaking laws to stay and we both knew noone
would do anythinga bout it, even after I reported it.

Rules and mandates can be made, but all the new regulations are piled on top of another, leaving giant gaps, loopholes and back doors.

Until there is a moritorium on accepting non-residents and the entire system is remoldeled, no on e will be satisfied, no one will follow the rules and these symptoms will lead, along with frustration, to harsh punishment-

it means you don't drink zinfendel!!!

If you think Zinfandel is a whilte or blush/rose' wine - aka "White Zinfandel" - you're right. Not worth drinking.

If you think Zinfandel is a red wine, from a grape that has nothing to do with "White Zin", and comes from California - then... well, sir, them's fightin' words. :)

Anyone who doesn't know the difference:  Spend $2-5 on a "White Zinfandel".  Heck, spend $10.  Then spend $5-10 on any (red, but I repeat myself) Zinfandel from California.  And put it up against any $20 Merlot, Pinot, or Cabernet Sauvignon you can find.

'nuff said.  But to keep it on topic, half of it's probably picked by illegal immigrants, so it'd cost all of $1-2 per bottle more if (pro-big-business-and-cheap-labor Democrats or Republicans) they were legal and paid minimum wage or (Xenophobic maniacs of both parties) they were exterminated in the camps.

Up here in Massachusetts, our resident white supremicist talk radio host, Howie Carr, has been whipping up the usual race hatred. He says illegal aliens are terrorists who only want to come here to commit crimes and go on welfare. He is not talking about Asian or European immigrants either. His wrath is reserved exclousively for Latin Americans, otherwise why would he play sound clips of Speedy Gonzales and "You Can Be Free in America" from West Side Story.

So it is ironic that Howie Carr's book, The Brothers Bulger, now on the NYT top 10 list is on one of about three subjects on which I agree with the SOB. The Bulger Brothers, William "Billy" Bulger (former leader of the Democrat politcal machine in the Mass state legislature, and former president of UMass), and his Irish Mafia brother James "Whitey" Bulger, currently at large and wanted by the FBI on numerous felonious charges, are both scum. S-C-U-M scum, I tells ya!

However, I discourage anyone on the strongest possible terms from purchasing Howie Carr's book. I don't like the idea of Howie getting the royalties. Carr, host of "The Howie Carr" show based at Boston's AM 680 WRKO, and a columnist for Boston's tabloid trash Newspaper, "The Boston Herald," has been a pox on the region since the 1980s. He makes a show of fomenting class and race-based hatred of all who are not white, conservative, and Republican-voting. The only reason he is less scummy than the Bulger brothers is Howie has not the the corrupted political power Billy has, and he never murdered anyone or pulled anyone's teeth out with pliers, or put anyone's hand in a toaster, like Whitey.
::)


I have said this before, there was a large contingent of illegal Irish workers on the Big Dig, but when an hispanic showed up you would get the half-smarts making fun of them and trying to intimidate them.  Many people who use the kind of rhetoric that carr imploys wax philosophic when it comes to the northern Europeans.  It is racism plain and simple.  About his book, walk past it and buy "Black Mass" by
Lehr and O'Neill.  There are some in Southie who still look fondly on Whitey and Billy, but they probably voted for bush, too.

The Victims Of Illegal Immigration
By Michelle Malkin

President Bush accuses those of us who want to secure America's borders and fully enforce our immigration laws of lacking "compassion."

Huh. Well, I have yet to hear an ounce of compassion from President Bush for America's countless casualties of lax immigration enforcement. Where's the sympathy for innocent, law-abiding citizens who have lost their lives at the hands of illegal aliens and their open-borders enablers?

Nope, we haven't heard a word about the victims as the White House pours on its unadulterated pro-illegal alien rhetoric and "undocumented workers do the jobs Americans won't do" propaganda