yes. very. clinton's "scandals" were all about his personal life. bush's are all about what a disaster he's made of our country. they're about his leadership. what there is of it.
i guess your saying so makes it true.

whatever. after what's happened in the past few years it's REALLY hard to care about whitewater.
if i'd been in his shoes, i would have lied too. it was so obvious ken starr was after anything he could find to ruin the man's life. i wouldn't have had the affair with monica in the first place -- i don't have affairs, and i don't approve of what he did -- but once he was in that situation and it was pretty obvious the right-wing machine would do anything in its power to destroy him, i would have lied. for sure. and it's not like the bushies haven't lied their faces off, and about things that MATTER, not about BJs. but they're smart and never go under oath. because they know damn well how sleazy they are.

i dunno what to say about this. if you've liked the last six years, and apparently you do, vote republican and the country will keep going in the same direction. i personally have learned a valuable lesson out of the bush administration and watching the radical right run every aspect of the federal government -- and that's that the right has NOTHING to offer this country. if you love america, then you have to hate the right and the way they rape america. because they really do. there's no other word for it.

i HATE the right. and i hate what they've done to my country.



First of all, your exhibiting the typical Liberal delusion here - Like things would be any better under ANY of the democratic candidates of the last 2 elections. They've been useless and you KNOW I abhor the current administration, they're an embarresment to Conservatives worldwide.

However.. I'm about to agree with you.

If I was Clinton, damn straight I would have lied through my teeth.. cus Hilary is a nasty bitch and probably would have had his balls in a vice otherwise. He received oral sex.. big deal... most of us have had affairs, seriously, it's not a big deal.. two people give each other what they want and enjoy it. Marriage is a total sham anyway, no two people love each other that much that they don't WANT to nail somebody else..

Of course, the left made a huge deal about Bush snorting coke whilst skipping out oin Vietnam. Now..  should they have? I guess.. it was news.. was it a big deal.. no, not really, loads of people skipped the draft, on the left and right.. loads of people snorted coke as well, big deal.

First of all, your exhibiting the typical Liberal delusion here - Like things would be any better under ANY of the democratic candidates of the last 2 elections. They've been useless and you KNOW I abhor the current administration, they're an embarresment to Conservatives worldwide.



I'm not too sure about Kerry but Gore would definately have been better than Dubya. Yeah, I held my nose and voted for Kerry. He wasn't my candidate of choice but he was "anyone but Bush".


However.. I'm about to agree with you.

If I was Clinton, damn straight I would have lied through my teeth.. cus Hilary is a nasty bitch and probably would have had his balls in a vice otherwise. He got his c**k sucked.. big deal... most of us have had affairs, seriously, it's not a big deal.. two people give each other what they want and enjoy it. Marriage is a total sham anyway, no two people love each other that much that they don't WANT to nail somebody else.. it's bulls**t.



Clinton should not have been asked questions about his personal life to begin with. Yeah, what he did was not exactly a good thing to do but that was between him, Hilary, and Monica-not the entire nation. However, I disagree with you about marriage. Speaking from personal experience, Carlos & I are totally much in love that we don't want anyone else. We are perfectly content with just each other.



Of course, the left made a huge deal about Bush snorting coke whilst skipping out oin Vietnam. Now..  should they have? I guess.. it was news.. was it a big deal.. no, not really, loads of people skipped the draft, on the left and right.. loads of people snorted coke as well, big deal.


You could make the same claim how the right railed on Clinton about "not inhaling", too. Personally, I think coke is far worse than a little grass. As for Vietnam, I understand how many felt about that war-whether going to fight in the jungles of South-east Asia or going to Canada. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with are people who skip out of duties (quote Cheney: "I had better things to do"), but are real quick to send others into harm's way. And then trying to play the "war hero" by donning a flight suit for a photo op to claim "Mission Accomplish" which was/is not.



Cat

I'm not too sure about Kerry but Gore would definately have been better than Dubya. Yeah, I held my nose and voted for Kerry. He wasn't my candidate of choice but he was "anyone but Bush".

Clinton should not have been asked questions about his personal life to begin with. Yeah, what he did was not exactly a good thing to do but that was between him, Hilary, and Monica-not the entire nation. However, I disagree with you about marriage. Speaking from personal experience, Carlos & I are totally much in love that we don't want anyone else. We are perfectly content with just each other.

You could make the same claim how the right railed on Clinton about "not inhaling", too. Personally, I think coke is far worse than a little grass. As for Vietnam, I understand how many felt about that war-whether going to fight in the jungles of South-east Asia or going to Canada. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with are people who skip out of duties (quote Cheney: "I had better things to do"), but are real quick to send others into harm's way. And then trying to play the "war hero" by donning a flight suit for a photo op to claim "Mission Accomplish" which was/is not.


Gore.. maybe. Gore talks a big game and is commited to what he believes in.. some of which I'm all for, I seriously doubt he'd have the political clout to get much of anything done. Yeah, Kerry was 'anybody' but Bush, personally I would have actually liked to see Edwards run as a candidate, seeing as he was liked across the board.

Yeah, the whole 'I did not inhale thing' who cares.
Well, fair enough, that's good that you's guys are totally commited to each other.

Makes me sick when anyone of those chicken-hawk sumbitches puts on a uniform and parades around like they have any goddam right to be wearing it.

Gore.. maybe. Gore talks a big game and is commited to what he believes in.. some of which I'm all for, I seriously doubt he'd have the political clout to get much of anything done. Yeah, Kerry was 'anybody' but Bush, personally I would have actually liked to see Edwards run as a candidate, seeing as he was liked across the board.



I agree with you there. Edwards would have a great deal better than Kerry. So far the candidates who MAY get my support (haven't decided yet since the election is over a year away and anything can happen) are Barack Obama, John Edwards, &  Dennis Kucinich. That is not to say that I am ruling out others, I just don't know too much about some others at this point in time. Of course if Gore decides to run, he would be added to my list. A few candidates who I have totally ruled out are Kerry & Hilary. However, if they win the primary, I just may have to hold my nose and vote them anyway.  :-\\




Yeah, the whole 'I did not inhale thing' who cares.
Well, fair enough, that's good that you's guys are totally commited to each other.

Makes me sick when anyone of those chicken-hawk sumbitches puts on a uniform and parades around like they have any goddam right to be wearing it.



I agree with you there.



Cat

I agree with you there. Edwards would have a great deal better than Kerry. So far the candidates who MAY get my support (haven't decided yet since the election is over a year away and anything can happen) are Barack Obama, John Edwards, &  Dennis Kucinich. That is not to say that I am ruling out others, I just don't know too much about some others at this point in time. Of course if Gore decides to run, he would be added to my list. A few candidates who I have totally ruled out are Kerry & Hilary. However, if they win the primary, I just may have to hold my nose and vote them anyway.  :-\\

I agree with you there.


I'd do a write in for Bush before I'd vote for Hilary. If there's anybody who shouldn't hold office, it's her. She just flips flops around and spouts her populist nonsense whilst not actually commiting to anything. The only possible way I'd vote for her is if I knew Bill would be heavily involved, but it's already come out that he'd be off ambassadoring it up (meaning he'll be nailing foreign chicks  ;D).

I'd certainly vote for Barak Obama. I'd probably vote for him before Chuck Hagel or Rudy Giuliani who are my two Republican picks.

I'd do a write in for Bush before I'd vote for Hilary. If there's anybody who shouldn't hold office, it's her. She just flips flops around and spouts her populist nonsense whilst not actually commiting to anything. The only possible way I'd vote for her is if I knew Bill would be heavily involved, but it's already come out that he'd be off ambassadoring it up (meaning he'll be nailing foreign chicks  ;D).

I'd certainly vote for Barak Obama. I'd probably vote for him before Chuck Hagel or Rudy Giuliani who are my two Republican picks.



I paint Hilary, Kerry, & McCain all in the same light. They blow whichever way the wind blows. I do want someone who is willing to stand up for their convictions even if it is against the popular belief. Of course that is where I have a bit a problem with Edwards, he did vote for the war like the majority did. But, like I said, it is really too early for me to throw my support to anyone. But, I am weighing my options.



Cat

i notice you have no tangible retort to any of this except vague comments about "left wing marketers," whatever that's supposed to mean. :P

It works for Ann Coulter, so why not me?
:D

If I was Clinton, damn straight I would have lied through my teeth.. cus Hilary is a nasty bitch and probably would have had his balls in a vice otherwise. He received oral sex.. big deal... most of us have had affairs, seriously, it's not a big deal.. two people give each other what they want and enjoy it. Marriage is a total sham anyway, no two people love each other that much that they don't WANT to nail somebody else..




I wouldn't say "most of us have had affairs" (and it IS a big deal). And it wasn't one affair w/Monica, it was four affairs in public office. (and if you recall, Hillary got on TV after 3 of them telling America that her husband did not cheat or have an affair, but that it was a right wing conspiracy - and she was very firm on that). (By the way: I hope you tell your prospects in the future your feelings about people in love wanting to nail somebody else - that would be the fair thing to do) 



Of course, the left made a huge deal about Bush snorting coke whilst skipping out oin Vietnam. Now..  should they have? I guess..

Sure, all if fair. Then also we should make a big deal about Obama (admitting) to using pot and coke for "recreation" too, right? There has not been a lot of press about that - hardly any at all, (I wonder why?)


it was news.. was it a big deal.. no, not really, loads of people skipped the draft, on the left and right.. loads of people snorted coke as well, big deal.


True... although Bush really didn't skip the draft at all. That would be Clinton, who left the country to skip the draft for real.. that didn't get a lot of press either - must be the double standards working here again.

I wouldn't say "most of us have had affairs" (and it IS a big deal). And it wasn't one affair w/Monica, it was four affairs in public office. (and if you recall, Hillary got on TV after 3 of them telling America that her husband did not cheat or have an affair, but that it was a right wing conspiracy - and she was very firm on that). (By the way: I hope you tell your prospects in the future your feelings about people in love wanting to nail somebody else - that would be the fair thing to do) 

Sure, all if fair. Then also we should make a big deal about Obama (admitting) to using pot and coke for "recreation" too, right? There has not been a lot of press about that - hardly any at all, (I wonder why?)

True... although Bush really didn't skip the draft at all. That would be Clinton, who left the country to skip the draft for real.. that didn't get a lot of press either - must be the double standards working here again.


Yeah, sorry, by most of us I meant Me and my friends.. but then again, we are a bunch of degenerate wasters.
Who was the other one.. Jenifer something? I'm trying to remember.

I do wonder why Obama's drug use hasn't come under such heavy scrutinty as Bush's AND Clinton's. I'm guessing because the left is holding him up on a pedestal.

I'm not quite sure how Bush didn't skip the draft.. fill me in here.
Wasn't Clinton a rhodes scholar? Admittedly if I was given that sort of opportunity, I would take it. That being said, he's in no position to rag on others who avoided it.


(By the way: I hope you tell your prospects in the future your feelings about people in love wanting to nail somebody else - that would be the fair thing to do)


Sex is just sex, when one can deal with things in an adult and mature manner, that's all it needs to be.

I do wonder why Obama's drug use hasn't come under such heavy scrutinty as Bush's AND Clinton's. I'm guessing because the left is holding him up on a pedestal.

I think you nailed it there!



I'm not quite sure how Bush didn't skip the draft.. fill me in here.
Wasn't Clinton a rhodes scholar? Admittedly if I was given that sort of opportunity, I would take it. That being said, he's in no position to rag on others who avoided it.



Bush enlisted. Clinton ran to Canada.



Sex is just sex, when one can deal with things in an adult and mature manner, that's all it needs to be.


Sometimes being an adult means you are 'adult enough' to stick to your promises and commitments.

I think you nailed it there!


Pretty much. I happen to like the guy but he's being made out to be something he's not.


Bush enlisted. Clinton ran to Canada.


Yeah.. in the Texas Air National Guard, not exactly the most demanding of callings.. and he didn't go.


Sometimes being an adult means you are 'adult enough' to stick to your promises and commitments.


Thankfully.. I've never made any commitments.. maybe if I did it would be different.

If Clinton joined and fought in combat it would have made NO difference.  1992 was pre-Karl Rove but not pre--Lee Atwater.  They would have done to Clinton exactly what the did to Kerry.

Yeah, Bush enlisted, but he was drunk and AWOL.

Pretty much. I happen to like the guy but he's being made out to be something he's not.

:)


Yeah.. in the Texas Air National Guard, not exactly the most demanding of callings.. and he didn't go.


Kerry joined the Swift Boats crew; who / which did not go into combat areas (the safe route), until after he joined. then, when they did, he faked his three purple hearts... well, one faked and two the products of whining on his part.  ---- -- And Bush did go, demanding or not, he went. It was his discharge date that was  in dispute.(which was cleared up) Kerry's discharge papers and medical records have still not be released.


Thankfully.. I've never made any commitments.. maybe if I did it would be different.


There ya go!

If Clinton joined and fought in combat it would have made NO difference.  1992 was pre-Karl Rove but not pre--Lee Atwater.  They would have done to Clinton exactly what the did to Kerry.

- Clinton was a total coward and ran clear out of the country like the total coward he was & it didn't make a difference, he was still elected. Bush did not, he was NOT AWOL, that has been cleared up - so your propaganda pushing is just that, propaganda pushing.

Now tell us about Obama's drunk, coke and pot-head life and tell me he's a great guy in the same breath that you tell me Bush is bad for it .... after all, Obama's was more recently and was his "recreation"  not too long back.. let's hear your typical liberal double standards w/ clinton and obama (while you try and say it isn't!) 

- Clinton was a total coward and ran clear out of the country like the total coward he was & it didn't make a difference, he was still elected. Bush did not, he was NOT AWOL, that has been cleared up - so your propaganda pushing is just that, propaganda pushing.

Now tell us about Obama's drunk, coke and pot-head life and tell me he's a great guy in the same breath that you tell me Bush is bad for it .... after all, Obama's was more recently and was his "recreation"  not too long back.. let's hear your typical liberal double standards w/ clinton and obama (while you try and say it isn't!) 



What makes you think I'm invested in Obama?

Clinton got himself out of going to Vietnam.  A lot bright young men with their wits about them did, such as Dick Cheney.  Vietnam was an atrocious mess and an unwinnable war, and it wasn't Jane Fonda's fault.  Most of the men serving in combat were from poor backgrounds and could not get those college deferments.

Kerry did not suffer grievous injuries to get his purple heart medals.  Thousands of soldiers got purple hearts under similar circumstances.  They weren't that big a deal.  Secretary Gordon England, U.S. Navy, concluded from their investigation that Kerry followed propert procedures to obtain his silver and bronze stars and his purple hearts.  It does not appear they were "faked."  You might not like Kerry, you might not like the way Kerry went about getting those awards, or what he did after he got them, but Kerry did not get them under false pretenses.

Don't suppose it might be able to expunge an AWOL from your record if your pop was a congressman, the ambassador to the U.N., and chairman of the RNC.  Don't suppose, don't suppose...
::)

But you're right, Bush didn't go AWOL.  That's 30 days or less.  Bush didn't show up for 17 months.  That makes him a deserter.
;D

The hardcore Bush haters (yes, there are people who hate Bush to the point of insanity) make Bush's, ahem, absenteeism sound like a much bigger deal than it was.  However, when you become president (notice I didn't say elected) and your administration beats the drum for war, sends other people's sons and daughters into combat, and uses the military for its own PR machine, a goof-off service record looks pretty hypocritical.  There are no records of the man even being in Alabama when he said he was for chrissakes. 

http://www.bushwatch.com/awol.htm

What makes you think I'm invested in Obama?

Clinton got himself out of going to Vietnam.  A lot bright young men with their wits about them did, such as Dick Cheney.  Vietnam was an atrocious mess and an unwinnable war, and it wasn't Jane Fonda's fault.  Most of the men serving in combat were from poor backgrounds and could not get those college deferments.

Kerry did not suffer grievous injuries to get his purple heart medals.  Thousands of soldiers got purple hearts under similar circumstances.  They weren't that big a deal.  Secretary Gordon England, U.S. Navy, concluded from their investigation that Kerry followed propert procedures to obtain his silver and bronze stars and his purple hearts.  It does not appear they were "faked."  You might not like Kerry, you might not like the way Kerry went about getting those awards, or what he did after he got them, but Kerry did not get them under false pretenses.

Don't suppose it might be able to expunge an AWOL from your record if your pop was a congressman, the ambassador to the U.N., and chairman of the RNC.  Don't suppose, don't suppose...
::)

But you're right, Bush didn't go AWOL.  That's 30 days or less.  Bush didn't show up for 17 months.  That makes him a deserter.
;D

The hardcore Bush haters (yes, there are people who hate Bush to the point of insanity) make Bush's, ahem, absenteeism sound like a much bigger deal than it was.  However, when you become president (notice I didn't say elected) and your administration beats the drum for war, sends other people's sons and daughters into combat, and uses the military for its own PR machine, a goof-off service record looks pretty hypocritical.  There are no records of the man even being in Alabama when he said he was for chrissakes. 

http://www.bushwatch.com/awol.htm


http://emoticons4u.com/happy/1074.gif

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Carlos manage to get himself out of Vietnam. His daddy was not rich and did not have any pull to get him in front of the list for the Texas Air National Guard. When he was called up he basically starved himself for about 3 weeks prior. So, when he went in to take his physical, he was WAY below the weight he should have been for his height. (An added bonus, they set the scales lighter and the measurements higher because they dealt more with shorter, heavier people then tall and lighter people.) By their calculations, Carlos should have been dead. After being rejected from the Army,  he left and went streight to McDonald's and got 3 Big Macs.  ;D ;D ;D



Cat

Well I don't know about any of the others, but I'd say that "ordering the invasion of a sovereign nation and deposing its leader for no justifiable reason or for reasons that have since found to be fabricated" would be the biggest Bush scandal. When Clinton lied, he lied about having sex. When Bush and his cronies lied, they sent thousands of people to their deaths in a needless war that's still going on. That's a big difference.

Well I don't know about any of the others, but I'd say that "ordering the invasion of a sovereign nation and deposing its leader for no justifiable reason or for reasons that have since found to be fabricated" would be the biggest Bush scandal. When Clinton lied, he lied about having sex. When Bush and his cronies lied, they sent thousands of people to their deaths in a needless war that's still going on. That's a big difference.



http://emoticons4u.com/happy/1074.gif To you, too.




Cat

-

Now tell us about Obama's drunk, coke and pot-head life and tell me he's a great guy in the same breath that you tell me Bush is bad for it .... after all, Obama's was more recently and was his "recreation"  not too long back.. let's hear your typical liberal double standards w/ clinton and obama (while you try and say it isn't!) 




bush had a coke, pot-head, drunken life, so if you cast aspersions on Obama for it you must do the same for bush.  Big difference is that Obama is man enough to admit it whereas bush is not.  That was YOUR typical rovian double standard.

bush and clinton basically did the same thing, they opted out of going to vietnam. the particular ng stint bush went on was known among the leisure class as an easy way of getting out of going to the meat grinder.

the difference is, clinton opposed the war. the argument could at least be made that he was acting out of principle. if you don't think the war is just, don't go and fight for other people to not go either. you think i'd go fight for bush and the partisan republicans in congress and their corporate and radical religious financiers in iraq? hell no. they hate me, they hate my country (though they wrap themselves shamelessinly in the flag) and they hate everything i stand for. they can all grab a rifle and go fight for their OWN oil profits.

the difference between clinton  and bush is, bush opted out cuz he was worried about his own ass. it's possible clinton did the same, but bush supported the war in vietnam... he just thought other people should go. that was a job for the wait staff and the poor people. that is the ultimate in cowardice.

and let's look at the VPs. gore served as a reporter, did he not? he's modest about his serving but at least his boots fell on vietnamese soil at one point. cheney rather famously had "other priorities."

i mean really, what's so good about these guys? they REALLY make my flesh crawl.

In conservative emotionalism:

The Republican Party is always the party of patriotism and bravery.
The "Democrat" party is always the party of treason and cowardice.

It does not matter what individuals in the parties do or don't do.

Dubya is a war hero, Jack Murtha is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.


Bill Clinton had a Rhodes Scholarship.  Oxford University is not in Canada, BTW.

Well I don't know about any of the others,

Really? How could you not?


...but I'd say that "ordering the invasion of a sovereign nation and deposing its leader for no justifiable reason or for reasons that have since found to be fabricated" would be the biggest Bush scandal. When Clinton lied, he lied about having sex. When Bush and his cronies lied, they sent thousands of people to their deaths in a needless war that's still going on. That's a big difference.



Pushing propaganda without any evidence is not very responsible, (but it is good for the demoncrat cause huy?)

By the way;  Did Clinton lie when he attacked Baghdad for the very same reasons as Bush?

bush and clinton basically did the same thing, they opted out of going to vietnam. the particular ng stint bush went on was known among the leisure class as an easy way of getting out of going to the meat grinder.



OMG! They hardly did the same thing; one enlisted in service and the other took off like the coward he is.. GAD!


the difference is, clinton opposed the war. the argument could at least be made that he was acting out of principle.


Principle: noun:  a rule or standard especially of good behavior  Example: "A man of principle"


Principle doesn't include skipping out on one's own country to hide from being drafted... (no matter how you spin it)


the difference between clinton  and bush is, bush opted out cuz he was worried about his own ass. it's possible clinton did the same,

Bush enlisted... Possilbe Clinton did the same? How about probable he DID worry about his own ass. Bush enlisted, smart: clinton skipped the country like a yellow pinko - that's worry over his own ass hun.


but bush supported the war in vietnam... he just thought other people should go.



Oh, did he tell you that personally? How come Clinton didn't support the war in Nam, being that Kennedy sent the men there & all? HOGWASH - all of that you wrote! It's funny what people let themself believe because of their partisanship  - even to the point of not making any sense at all.

Really? How could you not?


Because I'm not an American.


Pushing propaganda without any evidence is not very responsible, (but it is good for the demoncrat cause huy?)


;D Hey kettle, you're black!

Bush said Saddam had WMDs. Saddam acquiesed to UN demands to give weapons inspectors unrestricted access, who found nothing. But Bush didn't believe them. NO WMDs HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ. The claim that Iraq had bought uranium off Niger was an outright lie, perpetrated by a shonky Italian ex-intelligence officer. The CIA even told Rice it was untrue, but she continued to peddle it. IRAQ NEVER BOUGHT "YELLOWCAKE" OFF ANYONE. Bush said that Saddam was a supporter of Al Queada. He wasn't -- this was even denied by the CIA and recanted by Colin Powell. IRAQ HAD NO ALLEGIANCE WITH BIN LADEN. Bush claimed that Saddam had mobile biological warfare factories. This also turned out to be untrue, a lie peddled by a disgruntled Iraqi refugee in Germany. There is evidence that Saddam HAD chemical weapons in the 1980s (he bought them off America), and even used them, but the reason for the invasion wasn't about the chemical weapons he had back in the 80s to use against Iran, it was about the weapons he was going to use against America. WHICH HE DIDN'T HAVE. Nothing Bush told his allies about why Iraq was so dangerous it had to be brought to its knees was true. Not a single thing. This isn't propaganda. This is an example of propaganda:

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction; he's determined to make more. Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression...given what we know of his terrorist associations and given his determination to exact revenge on those who oppose him, should we take the risk that he will not some day use these weapons at a time and the place and in the manner of his choosing at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond? The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world" -- Colin Powell, 5/2/03.

Let's look at that again:

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction (none have ever been found, so he either destroyed them, or never had any, as the IAEA determined); he's determined to make more (how could he? He didn't have the technology, as the IAEA found). Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression (no denying that)...given what we know of his terrorist associations (none, apparently, according to the CIA) and given his determination to exact revenge on those who oppose him, should we take the risk that he will not some day use these weapons at a time and the place and in the manner of his choosing at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond? The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option (perhaps not, BUT HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY), not in a post-September 11th world"

Propaganda?


MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                                                                           George W. Bush  May 1, 2003 on board USS Lincoln (with a sock stuffed down his pants)

;D

I would have mentioned that if I'd thought of it. BUt I thought of this: "embedding" journalists, even ones opposed to the war, with the US armed forces as they rolled across Iraq virtually unhindered, to show the world how much of a cakewalk it would be for the biggest and richest army in the history of mankind to invade another country. But then, when Americans started to die, NOT allowing journalists, even those who had supported the war, to show the coffins of servicemen.

BTW, didn't Clinton bomb Baghdad because Saddam kept sending planes over the No-Fly Zone?

The "Democrat" party is always the party of treason and cowardice.

Now you're getting it!! Look at Harry Reid, he is totally treasonous and a total coward, and the list goes on too! Just look at what Reid just said, and you know Osama (if he is alive) is cheering him on!


Dubya is a war hero, Jack Murtha is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.

Jack Murtha is a slime ball who makes deals with his washington power...  good example (and another example of a super defeatist too)


Bill Clinton had a Rhodes Scholarship.  Oxford University is not in Canada, BTW.


No Canada is where the coward went to hide from the draft, try not to confuse the issues!
 

No Canada is where the coward went to hide from the draft, try not to confuse the issues!
 



I think you need to check your facts. Bill Clinton NEVER went to Canada. He went to the U.K. to study at Oxford. BTW, he had a college deferment like a lot of people did. If you don't believe me, read this:


http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/Hope.html

Or how about this-strieght off the White House website:


http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html

Never once did it mention that he went to Canada.


Here is another interesting site that lists what many people did during Vietnam. Notice how a lot of Republicans ALSO had college deferments.


http://www.peaceaware.com/documents/who_served_in_the_military.htm



Cat

No Canada is where the coward went to hide from the draft, try not to confuse the issues!
 


Oxford is in England and Bill Clinton went there as a Rhodes Scholar, something bushie II will never be mistaken for.




OMG! They hardly did the same thing; one enlisted in service and the other took off like the coward he is.. GAD!



Having your daddy pull strings to get you a stint with the National Guard, then getting you out again, is noble?  He didn't even have to study.

Having your daddy pull strings to get you a stint with the National Guard, then getting you out again, is noble?  He didn't even have to study.

It's not that he didn't want to study, it's that he couldn't because he was too bombed!

It's not that he didn't want to study, it's that he couldn't because he was too bombed!


But I thought they sent him there for that reason. :)

Jesse Ventura was a Navy SEAL if that counts for anything? He's also one of the finest humans on the face of the earth!

Jesse Ventura was a Navy SEAL if that counts for anything? He's also one of the finest humans on the face of the earth!


Navy Seals kick serious butt. :)

Navy Seals kick serious butt. :)


He was in Underwater Demolition.

Jesse is pretty Liberal in many ways, but he's VERY fiscally Conservative.

Kind of the opposite of the current administration and unlike most Democrats. America needs more people like Jesse The Body. Stop spending and start mending.

He was in Underwater Demolition.

Jesse is pretty Liberal in many ways, but he's VERY fiscally Conservative.

Kind of the opposite of the current administration and unlike most Democrats. America needs more people like Jesse The Body. Stop spending and start mending.


I've also found him to be an unapologetic individualist.  I like that in a politician. :)

I've also found him to be an unapologetic individualist.  I like that in a politician. :)


MMmHmmm. Well there's your difference, Jesse isn't so much a politician.. as he is.. a guy.. in politics/

MMmHmmm. Well there's your difference, Jesse isn't so much a politician.. as he is.. a guy.. in politics/


Yep, the man's not brain dead!!! :)

Oxford is in England and Bill Clinton went there as a Rhodes Scholar, something bushie II will never be mistaken for.


Before graduate deferments were eliminated in 1968, registrants could conceivably use this tactic until they reached the age of twenty-six, when they were much less likely to be drafted. Clinton came along too late to adopt a similar strategy; in the middle of his Rhodes scholarship at Oxford University, Congress eliminated graduate deferments. Despite the example of the draft resistance movement and his Rhodes scholar roommate, who chose to accept prison over induction, Clinton manipulated the system


Having your daddy pull strings to get you a stint with the National Guard, then getting you out again, is noble?  He didn't even have to study.


Liberals are such whiners w/such double standards.

It's not that he didn't want to study, it's that he couldn't because he was too bombed!


That maturity is so impressive!  Clinton was "not inhaling" while Obama was priming for his "entertainment era" of pot, coke and booze and you just can't get over it...

Before graduate deferments were eliminated in 1968, registrants could conceivably use this tactic until they reached the age of twenty-six, when they were much less likely to be drafted. Clinton came along too late to adopt a similar strategy; in the middle of his Rhodes scholarship at Oxford University, Congress eliminated graduate deferments. Despite the example of the draft resistance movement and his Rhodes scholar roommate, who chose to accept prison over induction, Clinton manipulated the system

Liberals are such whiners w/such double standards.




Once again....
Clinton was an extremely bright young man who did not want to go to Vietnam.  If he wanted to go, he most certainly could have.  But he didn't.  I don't have a problem with him not wanting to go.  You might.  Fair enough.  But what drives Clinton critics crazy is he didn't really dodge the draft, he manipulated the system, as you say.

Clinton registered for selective service at Georgetown but got a student deferment.  Legit.
Indeed, in 2/68 the government eliminated deferments for grad students.
Clinton then got himself a Navy Billet at the local naval reserve unit and temporary deferment from the draft via the Garland County draft board so he could go to Oxford.  This was a bit of special treatment that took some string-pulling, but again, it was technically legit.
Clinton did report for his physical at the end of his first semester, 1/69.
Clinton missed his 4/69 induction date due to, ahem, delays in the international mailing system.  He was thus allowed to finish his semester.  Again, this reveals a young man more enthusiastic for the spires of Oxford than the explosion-riddled jungles of Southeast Asia.  But it's still legit. 
Bubba was then due for induction in 7/69, but that month he got accepted to the Arkansas ROTC, which "nullified" his draft notice.  Thus, Big Bill would have to enroll after basic training the following year.
In 1969 Clinton decided not to go to law school but return to Oxford.  Fortuitously, the government changed regulations again that year allowing grad students to complete their studies before reporting for dute.  Bubba writes the Arkansas draft board and dumps his ROTC deferment.  At that time, Slick Willie's number in the draft lottery was so high he could count on never getting called for dute, and he wasn't.

We all hate to see a guy we don't like play the system, technically break no rules, and get away with not doing something other guys without the brains and connections had to do.  I can only image how it makes right-wing blood boil.

Heh heh!  He got away with it!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/diablotin.gif

As much as conservatives around here get the impression I was a staunch supporter of Clinton, they also get the idea Clinton was a rock-throwing red.  Neither could be further from the truth.
Clinton was the most conservative and pro-big business among the slate of serious contenders in 1992.  I wanted Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), and when Harkin dropped out, I stumped a bit for Jerry Brown.  I voted for Clinton in '92 to spare the country four more years of Bush/Quayle, that's all.  By '96 I was too disgusted to vote for him because of his lust for the so-called free trade agreements and for so-called "welfare reform."  I can't stand a Republicrat, so I wrote in Nader.

That maturity is so impressive!  Clinton was "not inhaling" while Obama was priming for his "entertainment era" of pot, coke and booze and you just can't get over it...


I regret that our country was not mature enough to hear Clinton say, "Yeah, I used to get high in college, so what?"  Heck, JFK smoked the stuff in the White House!  If Obama did some pot, coke, and booze, I'm not really concerned.  It is a matter of degrees.  It appears Dubya's substance abuse (mostly booze) did some neurological damage.  That is rather concerning. 

For the next several decades we are going to have Baby Boomers and Gen X-ers running the country.  We had better get used to the idea that most people in these generations have smoked pot on numerous occasions, and many more have done harder drugs.  I don't want a heroin addict in the Oval Office, mind you.  However, I don't want some utterly straight-laced moralistic stiff who never even took a puff off a joint either.

Before graduate deferments were eliminated in 1968, registrants could conceivably use this tactic until they reached the age of twenty-six, when they were much less likely to be drafted. Clinton came along too late to adopt a similar strategy; in the middle of his Rhodes scholarship at Oxford University, Congress eliminated graduate deferments. Despite the example of the draft resistance movement and his Rhodes scholar roommate, who chose to accept prison over induction, Clinton manipulated the system

Liberals are such whiners w/such double standards.





The double standard was guys in my neighborhood dying in Viet Nam without deferments and bushie recieving special treatment because of his daddy. I don't think anyone should have gone to Viet Nam if the didn't want to, but guys who didn't want to were sent routinely and I know quite a few, and see quite a lot of them, who were damaged and in need of the very help that bushie denys them everyday with the cuts to Veterans benefits.  The liberals like me who are pissed off at bush are pissed off because bushie was for the war, while he was against it.  He didn't do his homework on it, if he had we wouldn't be where we are today, young men in my neighborhood dying in Iraq, while young men in his neighborhood power walk with their Ipods.





For the next several decades we are going to have Baby Boomers and Gen X-ers running the country.  We had better get used to the idea that most people in these generations have smoked pot on numerous occasions, and many more have done harder drugs.  I don't want a heroin addict in the Oval Office, mind you.  However, I don't want some utterly straight-laced moralistic stiff who never even took a puff off a joint either.



What we have is a straight-laced moralistic stiff who, although it has been proven he is an alcoholic, and is not a stranger to cocaine,{won't confirm or deny) standing up on his hypocritical bully pulpit.

My POINT IS: You call Bush a boozer and say he went AWOL and it is not true! It is simply immature childish crap. So I bring up Clinton and his draft dodging and pot use (and Obama's), and you continue to call your names and put Bush down while defending your playboy icon! You don't get it,  :o I get that already

The double standard was guys in my neighborhood dying in Viet Nam without deferments and bushie recieving special treatment because of his daddy. I don't think anyone should have gone to Viet Nam if the didn't want to, but guys who didn't want to were sent routinely and I know quite a few, and see quite a lot of them, who were damaged and in need of the very help that bushie denys them everyday with the cuts to Veterans benefits.  The liberals like me who are pissed off at bush are pissed off because bushie was for the war, while he was against it.  He didn't do his homework on it, if he had we wouldn't be where we are today, young men in my neighborhood dying in Iraq, while young men in his neighborhood power walk with their Ipods.


What we have is a straight-laced moralistic stiff who, although it has been proven he is an alcoholic, and is not a stranger to cocaine,{won't confirm or deny) standing up on his hypocritical bully pulpit.



http://emoticons4u.com/happy/1074.gif



My POINT IS: You call Bush a boozer and say he went AWOL and it is not true! It is simply immature childish crap. So I bring up Clinton and his draft dodging and pot use (and Obama's), and you continue to call your names and put Bush down while defending your playboy icon! You don't get it,  :o I get that already




You seem to be blinded by your love for Bush and your hatred for Clinton that you just can't see the facts. The facts are that Bush did get a DUI. (Cheney happened to get 2 of them).


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

Ok, so it may have been a "youthful indiscretion" at the age of 30.  ::)  Using drugs or alcohol for recreational use is one thing but to use them irresponible is another.


As for him being AWOL, there is no proof that he actually was where he was suppose to be.


As for Clinton, no one here claims he is perfect-far from it. And as many times and we tell you that Clinton did not dodge the draft and offer you proof of that, you still refuse to see the facts through your hatred. And as the facts are presented to you, you say that we are being childish because YOU are the one who is refusing to see the facts.


Cat

You seem to be blinded by your love for Bush and your hatred for Clinton that you just can't see the facts. The facts are that Bush did get a DUI. (Cheney happened to get 2 of them).



I don't hate Clinton - not at all; I hate double standards and hypocrites

I don't hate Clinton - not at all; I hate double standards and hypocrites





You could have fooled me when you called him a coward.



Cat

My POINT IS: You call Bush a boozer and say he went AWOL and it is not true! It is simply immature childish crap.




Bush, by his own admission, was a heavy drinker(and quite the party boy) until he sobered up in 1986. That would make him 40 years old, that would not make this behaviour qualified as childhood hijinks.

Oh, and how is this

archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/



Though he's done a decent job of hiding it in this election cycle, Bush has been known to use salty language. At the Republican National Convention in 1988, he was asked by a Hartford Courant reporter about what he and his father talked about when they weren't talking about politics.

"Pussy," Bush replied     ::)

Though he's done a decent job of hiding it in this election cycle, Bush has been known to use salty language. At the Republican National Convention in 1988, he was asked by a Hartford Courant reporter about what he and his father talked about when they weren't talking about politics.

"Pussy," Bush replied     ::)



I believe that's the same reply Vernon Jordan gave when reporters asked him what he and Bill Clinton talked about on the golf course.

I wish they'd all stick to that topic, only so much trouble you can plot there.  Sorry if it sounds totally sexist, but I'd rather them talk about screwing than screwing over!

I believe that's the same reply Vernon Jordan gave when reporters asked him what he and Bill Clinton talked about on the golf course.

I wish they'd all stick to that topic, only so much trouble you can plot there.  Sorry if it sounds totally sexist, but I'd rather them talk about screwing than screwing over!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/evil6.gif  You have to love the way Clinton deals with the media.

You could have fooled me when you called him a coward.



Cat


It's the one-sided gang of haters here; they slam Bush, they deserve to hear the same for one of their icons. There is no productivity in slamming people left & right. There are A LOT of things Clinton did that I liked - some you may not even be aware of (for example, he was FOR prayer in school) (but there are other reasons too). There are A LOT of great things Bush has done, many of those you may be unaware of too! I look at this thread & see it's a slam thread & I try to even things out a bit... You do believe in freedom of speech for all, right?

It's the one-sided gang of haters here; they slam Bush, they deserve to hear the same for one of their icons. There is no productivity in slamming people left & right. There are A LOT of things Clinton did that I liked - some you may not even be aware of (for example, he was FOR prayer in school) (but there are other reasons too). There are A LOT of great things Bush has done, many of those you may be unaware of too! I look at this thread & see it's a slam thread & I try to even things out a bit... You do believe in freedom of speech for all, right?








You have not been here long enough to know how much I have argued for the First Admendent. I am saying that it appears that you hate Clinton and love Bush and that is making you blind. We have been through this long before you even joined the board. Whenever someone mentions about what Bush did/didn't do, the other side's response always seems to be "Clinton." This thread was intended to discuss the scandals of the Bush Administration. Whether you want to see it or not, this Administration is riddled with scandal after scandal. I really don't think that Clinton is part of any of these scandals of the Bush Administration. Why don't you put up a thread about the scandals of the Clinton Administration. 



Cat