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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/14/07 at 2:02 pm
In the past year we have heard about tainted pet food, tainted toothpaste and all sorts of toy recalls all from China. I can't tell you how much this angers me. Not so much because China is letting tainted products go, but because the U.S. has been bombarded with products that are made in China. Why? Because manufacturers outsource there so they can get cheap labor. Walmart, IMO is the worse contributor to this mess. 10% of ALL products brought into the U.S. from China is for Walmart. There is a story about a manufacturer who had a plant in the south. Walmart was his biggest client and Walmart FORCED his to move his plant to China. Then, of course, you have Mattel. They make some of the most popular toys which date back to the 60s-Hot Wheels & Barbie. So, you see the name Mattel and you THINK you are getting quality but in fact, you getting cheaply made products.
A couple of months ago, I wanted to get a plastic make-up bag (actually, we intend to use it as a toiletry bag for our many travels that we make), so I went to Rite-Aid. I had my choice to get one that was made in China or get another one, made in China. I felt guilty about purchasing the one made in China but it was not like I had a choice.
I really hope that with all these recalls that U.S. manufacturers will start opening factories up in the U.S. again but somehow I doubt that will happen. I also wish that the U.S. government would make it harder for U.S. companies to outsource to other countries-ESPECIALLY China. And what really piss me off is the fact that China is using the $$$ they make from the U.S. to build up their military-a very dangerous thing if you ask me. And don't get me started on the scams coming from China on eBay.
I try not to be prejudice in any way, shape, or form, but I find it getting harder and harder not to have a prejudice about China. When I was talking to Carlos about this issue, he questioned that maybe it is a conspiracy that maybe China is trying to get rid of as many Americans as they can with their tainted products. I think that is going a bit too far but China is definitely a problem and who knows if the U.S. government will recognize that problem until it is too late.
Ok, that my rant. Any thoughts?
Cat
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Paul on 09/14/07 at 2:17 pm
It'll take time (and heaven knows I'm no economist!), but eventually the whole kaboodle will become so top-heavy and corrupt, that it will 'implode' under it's own strength...a harken back to the days of the so-called 'tiger' economies of Taiwan and the like, back inthe 80s-90s...
In the time-honoured tradition of things, if the worst possible scenario does happen, it won't be the big corporations suffering...it'll be Joe Public... ::)
So how to counteract it?
Those manufacturers and industries who have dealings with the Chinese should have a 80% 'import' tax slapped on their goods...
...which will probably get me a good slapping from someone, but in my defence (as I've said!), I'm no economist!
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/14/07 at 2:23 pm
It'll take time (and heaven knows I'm no economist!), but eventually the whole kaboodle will become so top-heavy and corrupt, that it will 'implode' under it's own strength...a harken back to the days of the so-called 'tiger' economies of Taiwan and the like, back inthe 80s-90s...
In the time-honoured tradition of things, if the worst possible scenario does happen, it won't be the big corporations suffering...it'll be Joe Public... ::)
So how to counteract it?
Those manufacturers and industries who have dealings with the Chinese should have a 80% 'import' tax slapped on their goods...
...which will probably get me a good slapping from someone, but in my defence (as I've said!), I'm no economist!
No slaps from me-I like your idea.
Cat
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: ladybug316 on 09/14/07 at 3:26 pm
I just think everyone wants to get off cheap. Lower the price, lower the standards (you get what you pay for). Who wouldn't spend the extra money for lead paint-free toys or for the security of knowing you won't be killing your pets with toxic food? Bring jobs back to America so we can regulate things to our standard and F*** things up our own way. ;)
To answer your question though, while I don't think this is a conspiracy, I do think we should fear China
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Red Ant on 09/14/07 at 3:41 pm
I don't ever buy Chinese goods...
(looks at Black & Decker Firestorm Drill - made in China. Well, it's a good drill...)
Okay, so I do, but I try to avoid it when I can. Personally, I think Taiwanese products are much worse.
I don't foresee the government doing anything about changing tariffs or passing laws to make overseas manufacturing less appealing. Only a consumer revolt is going to get anything done, but that's not likely either. People are too used to buying cheap throw away crap.
Good rant, Cat, but if I have to direct any anger towards another country, it would be North Korea. While China may be undermining our economy, at least we get goods in return. North Korea does it by making counterfeit US currency. It's a state-sponsored economic war, pure and simple.
Ant
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/14/07 at 8:43 pm
I agree with Ant.
Yes, we should be afraid of China, but I'm not mad at the Chinese over it. It's us. We're the ones digging our own graves!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/05/grim.gif
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: thereshegoes on 09/16/07 at 1:54 pm
Everytime i see a Made in China label,this is what i think about...
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7002/china0jzge1.th.jpg
It can be cheaper,it doesn't make it ok >:(
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Philip Eno on 09/16/07 at 2:08 pm
Can I remind everyone where the Summer Olympics are being held next year?
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: LyricBoy on 09/16/07 at 4:17 pm
Somewhere along the line they stopped calling ot Red Chia. I don't know why. They're still commies.
Slapping an 80% tarrif on goods will only result in other countries doing the same thing to American goods. And here's the rub: The United States (by volume of goods sold) is one of the largest exporters on the planet. So if we get into a tit-for-tat tariff war, the American economy will suffer big time.
I indeed do not like that mad dash of manufacturers moving to China, and Wal Mart is indeed a culprit. However if Wal-mart did not do it, Target would and Wal-Mart would be outta business. The toothpaste is out of the tube so to speak.
In the end I thin the REAL problem is the US Givernment deficit. You see, when China gets all those dollars, they have to SPEND them on something. That ultimately should mean investment in American assets or goods. But when the government runs huge deficits, the Chinese can simply buy T-bills. Gives them a place to park their money, and ultimately the money just goes to feed our bloated government. (In one aspect it goes to build OUR military too, I guess).
Stop the budget deficits and the balace-of-trade will take care of itself.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: AL-B Mk. III on 09/16/07 at 5:57 pm
Absolutely. I harbor no prejudice towards Chinese people whatsoever, but as far as the "People's Republic of China" goes, I don't trust those commie bastards. Red China is not our friend.
Aside from the recent scandals concerning tainted products from China (WTF are we thinking, importing all this crap from them to begin with?), I've read several reports that senior officials at the Pentagon have been alarmed at the rapid buildup and modernization of China's
military. Not to mention that they've recently begun joint military exercises with Russia. What are they gearing up for?
I've had a few people tell me that we need to "go into Iran and kick their ass." I always tell them that I think it's a really bad idea. We're in enough of a sh!t mess in Iraq, and I think it's a safe bet that if we decided to invade Iran it would be 10 times worse. And, I fear, that as soon as we got all our troops tied up in Iran, China would green light an invasion of Taiwan. And then what? We've always pledged to defend Taiwan against Red China, but what could we do about it if all our troops were busy fighting in the Middle East? Call me paranoid, but if we went into Iran, my initial scenario played out, and then China decided not to stop in Taiwan and invade the United States too, would we have enough trained military personnel here to stop the onslaught?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we went to war with China in the next 10 years.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Don't be at all surprised if the U.S. begins importing Chinese-built automobiles within the next few years. Watch this video and tell me if you really want to buy one of these pieces of crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Swzbt76wBM
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Red Ant on 09/16/07 at 6:16 pm
Oh yeah, one more thing: Don't be at all surprised if the U.S. begins importing Chinese-built automobiles within the next few years. Watch this video and tell me if you really want to buy one of these pieces of crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Swzbt76wBM
Holy crap! The driver would be dead in a crash like that, which was only 40 mph.
My Geo Metro fared much better after hitting a tree at 45 mph. It was still totalled, but no one had to pry the doors off and remove me in pieces.
This one has sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ&NR=1
Their SUVs are no better.
I don't think China would ever invade us. I'm pretty sure the thought of their country being turned into a nuclear fireball is sufficient deterrant.
Ant
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: La Roche on 09/16/07 at 9:21 pm
Absolutely. I harbor no prejudice towards Chinese people whatsoever, but as far as the "People's Republic of China" goes, I don't trust those commie bastards. Red China is not our friend.
Aside from the recent scandals concerning tainted products from China (WTF are we thinking, importing all this crap from them to begin with?), I've read several reports that senior officials at the Pentagon have been alarmed at the rapid buildup and modernization of China's
military. Not to mention that they've recently begun joint military exercises with Russia. What are they gearing up for?
I've had a few people tell me that we need to "go into Iran and kick their ass." I always tell them that I think it's a really bad idea. We're in enough of a sh!t mess in Iraq, and I think it's a safe bet that if we decided to invade Iran it would be 10 times worse. And, I fear, that as soon as we got all our troops tied up in Iran, China would green light an invasion of Taiwan. And then what? We've always pledged to defend Taiwan against Red China, but what could we do about it if all our troops were busy fighting in the Middle East? Call me paranoid, but if we went into Iran, my initial scenario played out, and then China decided not to stop in Taiwan and invade the United States too, would we have enough trained military personnel here to stop the onslaught?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if we went to war with China in the next 10 years.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Don't be at all surprised if the U.S. begins importing Chinese-built automobiles within the next few years. Watch this video and tell me if you really want to buy one of these pieces of crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Swzbt76wBM
Nah, the likelihood of an all out war between the U.S and China is so unlikely, more so, Japan and Russia would almost certainly jump to the same side for once and begin pounding China.
In all honesty, of all the countries in that region, Japan is the most likely to go to war in the near future. Think about it, insane overpopulation, totally devoid of natural resources, balancing on a very tricky economic tightrope.. all it would take would be for another nasty ass earthquake to total Tokyo and I would be fairly sure that the battle flags would be out and the Northern Resource Zone would be under attack, question being, would the U.S aid Russia? One would assume.
I do my best not to purchase Chinese products, not because they're inferior but because even though for all intents and purposes they're running a very capitalist ship there only a tiny minority of the population is allowed to take part and I despise Communism more than anything else in the world. It's a humiliating and degrading system used by Leftist to crush national identity.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/16/07 at 11:11 pm
Nah, the likelihood of an all out war between the U.S and China is so unlikely, more so, Japan and Russia would almost certainly jump to the same side for once and begin pounding China.
In all honesty, of all the countries in that region, Japan is the most likely to go to war in the near future. Think about it, insane overpopulation, totally devoid of natural resources, balancing on a very tricky economic tightrope.. all it would take would be for another nasty ass earthquake to total Tokyo and I would be fairly sure that the battle flags would be out and the Northern Resource Zone would be under attack, question being, would the U.S aid Russia? One would assume.
I do my best not to purchase Chinese products, not because they're inferior but because even though for all intents and purposes they're running a very capitalist ship there only a tiny minority of the population is allowed to take part and I despise Communism more than anything else in the world. It's a humiliating and degrading system used by Leftist to crush national identity.
Well, nobody just "gets" to take part in capitalism, you gotta earn it, right?
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: La Roche on 09/17/07 at 8:08 am
Well, nobody just "gets" to take part in capitalism, you gotta earn it, right?
I assume you're saying it's an unfair system?
Yes, of course it is, but generally, those with initiative can carve out a niche of varying degrees.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/17/07 at 6:12 pm
I assume you're saying it's an unfair system?
Yes, of course it is, but generally, those with initiative can carve out a niche of varying degrees.
What I mean is...well, it's like this. Say the population of the U.S.A is 300 million. What percentage of that 300 million now gets to participate in capitalism? I mean REALLY participate. I don't mean some crummy 401K plan from the company. That is still money earned by labor, not capital. I'll be generous and say 15% of working adults, that comes out to around 15 million people working with real capital in a total population of 300 million. Take China's current population of 1.3 billion+. Suppose the number of Chinese who get to participate in capital markets equals the entire population of the United States, which is a gross exaggeration. That still leaves 1 billion+ Chinese strictly working as laborers and subsistance farmers. That's three times the entire population of the U.S.A., Britain, Canada, and Australia!
What I see for China, as well as India, is a continuation of the way it's always been in those countries. You'll have a tiny wealthy class and a gigantic class of poor people. That's the way it was under the pre-colonial empires, that's the way it was during colonialism, and that's the way it will be under capitalism.
So let's not have any of this Tom Friedmann bafflegab about "globalization" bringing every Chinese and every Indian from field and factory a Frigidaire and an SUV. Ain't gonna happen. The sun will burn out first!
::)
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/21/07 at 1:24 pm
Another recall-this time it is cribs. >:( >:( >:(
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070921/ap_on_bi_ge/cribs_recall_2;_ylt=AguilBVWUFCvr5L3QopNdzUE1vAI
Somehow I knew even before I read the story-that's right, folks, those cribs were indeed made in China. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Cat
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: AL-B Mk. III on 09/21/07 at 1:39 pm
Another recall-this time it is cribs. >:( >:( >:(
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070921/ap_on_bi_ge/cribs_recall_2;_ylt=AguilBVWUFCvr5L3QopNdzUE1vAI
Somehow I knew even before I read the story-that's right, folks, those cribs were indeed made in China. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Cat
See? They're trying to kill us.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/21/07 at 3:52 pm
American-built cribs have caused infant deaths in a similar fashion.
Cribs used to have to conform to government standards.
As Greg Palast pointed out, this fact was raised for derision by right-wing politicians and pundits. It is absurd the government is so pervasive it tells crib manufacturers what to do, right? That's not what living in a free country is about, right? Right.
So Congress did away with the regulations....
And then a young woman's baby suffocated in a shoddy crib manufactured without no government oversight.
But let's let the free market work. If babies die in brand X cribs, parents just won't buy brand X cribs; they'll buy brand Y cribs. Consumer Reports lists no infant fatalities in brand Y cribs, but several in brand X cribs.
Now, if legislators forbade brand X from selling cribs below set safety standards, no babies would die AND brand X would remain competitive with brand Y, rather than going out of business with a babykiller repution.
But that's not the free market. For the free market to work, babies have to die and people have to lose jobs because management lowered standards.
Oh, the parents can't sue the company thanks to tort reform, but anyway....
I'm not saying goverment regulation always works. I'm merely stating that contrary to what Limbaugh says, government regulation sometimes works and the "free market" is not always what is best for one and all.
::)
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/21/07 at 4:12 pm
American-built cribs have caused infant deaths in a similar fashion.
Cribs used to have to conform to government standards.
As Greg Palast pointed out, this fact was raised for derision by right-wing politicians and pundits. It is absurd the government is so pervasive it tells crib manufacturers what to do, right? That's not what living in a free country is about, right? Right.
So Congress did away with the regulations....
And then a young woman's baby suffocated in a shoddy crib manufactured without no government oversight.
But let's let the free market work. If babies die in brand X cribs, parents just won't buy brand X cribs; they'll buy brand Y cribs. Consumer Reports lists no infant fatalities in brand Y cribs, but several in brand X cribs.
Now, if legislators forbade brand X from selling cribs below set safety standards, no babies would die AND brand X would remain competitive with brand Y, rather than going out of business with a babykiller repution.
But that's not the free market. For the free market to work, babies have to die and people have to lose jobs because management lowered standards.
Oh, the parents can't sue the company thanks to tort reform, but anyway....
I'm not saying goverment regulation always works. I'm merely stating that contrary to what Limbaugh says, government regulation sometimes works and the "free market" is not always what is best for one and all.
::)
Free market-free for the manufacturers to move jobs to a nation that will pay only about a $1 day without benefits. And the people in this country are free to buy crappy goods because they can't afford quality goods because their jobs went overseas. And the people who buy these crappy goods who get sick because of these crappy goods, can't afford to go to the doc because they lost their health care when they lost their jobs. And when they dare complain to Congress for allowing this f***ed up system to exist-because it is a FREE country-which means free market, we are told "Buyer beware". But, when you try to buy American made goods (if you can afford it), you can't find them because the ones that didn't move to China basically went the way of the doodoo thanks to the likes of Walmart & others.
What really p!sses me off is that fact that people are more concerned with profit margins than with safety. We are supposed to look to our leaders to keep us safe-and I am not talking about National Security here, I'm talking about our consumer goods. That is why we have federal agencies like the FDA & the USDA, etc. etc. These agencies are supposed to keep tainted goods off the shelves. But, they can't because of regulations and lack of $$$ because it is diverted to that mess in the Middle East-and in the pockets of CEOs.
Man, this country is totally f***ed up!!!! >:( >:( >:(
Cat
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Don Carlos on 09/22/07 at 11:47 am
And today we learn that Mattel has apologized to CHINA :o :o :o :o Seems they are afraid China will make life more difficult for them, which is to say hurt their bottom line. Go figure.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/23/07 at 5:59 pm
And today we learn that Mattel has apologized to CHINA :o :o :o :o Seems they are afraid China will make life more difficult for them, which is to say hurt their bottom line. Go figure.
It's like the way the old guy apologised to Dick Cheney after Cheney shot him in the face!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/evil_lol.gif
Nice to see you around here making some posts, DC!
;)
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Don Carlos on 09/24/07 at 3:47 pm
It's like the way the old guy apologised to Dick Cheney after Cheney shot him in the face!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/evil_lol.gif
Nice to see you around here making some posts, DC!
;)
Yea, Thing are getting interesting again.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Macphisto on 09/30/07 at 3:17 am
In the past year we have heard about tainted pet food, tainted toothpaste and all sorts of toy recalls all from China. I can't tell you how much this angers me. Not so much because China is letting tainted products go, but because the U.S. has been bombarded with products that are made in China. Why? Because manufacturers outsource there so they can get cheap labor. Walmart, IMO is the worse contributor to this mess. 10% of ALL products brought into the U.S. from China is for Walmart. There is a story about a manufacturer who had a plant in the south. Walmart was his biggest client and Walmart FORCED his to move his plant to China. Then, of course, you have Mattel. They make some of the most popular toys which date back to the 60s-Hot Wheels & Barbie. So, you see the name Mattel and you THINK you are getting quality but in fact, you getting cheaply made products.
A couple of months ago, I wanted to get a plastic make-up bag (actually, we intend to use it as a toiletry bag for our many travels that we make), so I went to Rite-Aid. I had my choice to get one that was made in China or get another one, made in China. I felt guilty about purchasing the one made in China but it was not like I had a choice.
I really hope that with all these recalls that U.S. manufacturers will start opening factories up in the U.S. again but somehow I doubt that will happen. I also wish that the U.S. government would make it harder for U.S. companies to outsource to other countries-ESPECIALLY China. And what really piss me off is the fact that China is using the $$$ they make from the U.S. to build up their military-a very dangerous thing if you ask me. And don't get me started on the scams coming from China on eBay.
I try not to be prejudice in any way, shape, or form, but I find it getting harder and harder not to have a prejudice about China. When I was talking to Carlos about this issue, he questioned that maybe it is a conspiracy that maybe China is trying to get rid of as many Americans as they can with their tainted products. I think that is going a bit too far but China is definitely a problem and who knows if the U.S. government will recognize that problem until it is too late.
Ok, that my rant. Any thoughts?
Cat
We shouldn't be afraid of China. We should just trade less with them. Ban anything that's edible from them. I even wrote a parody about that, actually.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: whistledog on 09/30/07 at 10:27 pm
I was "Lead" to believe that China was a great manufacturer of all things. Does this mean that I can't chew on my Tonka trucks anymore?
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Mushroom on 09/30/07 at 10:39 pm
Personally, I have never trusted China (PRC). This goes all the way back to the Korean War. The current Government simply has no respect for human life. This is obvious in the way they demanded "Human Wave" attacks. If a US Machine Gun has 100 bullets, send 101 soldiers against it. The loss of life does not matter, as long as the goal is achieved.
The current problem with China trade goes back to Jimmy Carter. One of the last things he did before leaving office (other then Iran and giving away the Panama Canal & Bases) was to institute a "One China Policy". This basically closed our Embassy in Taiwan (Formosa-Republic Of China) and recognized the PRC as the only true "China". Most people do not realize that we no longer officially recognize Taiwan as a true country.
Personally, I would have no problem of kicking China out of our country. Revoke Most Favored Nation status, Restrict exports, and recognize Taiwan as a soverign nation again. They have shown over and over again that they do not give a damn what anybody else in the world thinks of them, so I say let them return to the glorious days of Chairman Mao. Then they can have Tieneman Square revolts (complete with tanks running over civilians) and Cultural Revolutions, and they can congratulate themselves on how superior they are.
Just so they leave the rest of us alone.
As for why you can't find US made products anymore, is anybody really surprised? How can the US possibly compete on the World Market, with the pressures placed on it by Unions and demands for ever higher benefits and wages. Even such US companies as Levi-Strause left the US years ago because it is impossible to stay profitable and make their product in the US.
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: Macphisto on 09/30/07 at 11:42 pm
100% agreed, Mushroom. :)
Subject: Re: Should We Be Afraid of China?
Written By: La Roche on 10/01/07 at 7:27 am
Another issue here and something I'd like to see implemented..
When one of these companies who've outsourced to some small Asian country has trouble in the locality and ends up losing their building the government will more often than not bail them out. No! There's something called a risk/profit projection. You work out the risk and then base whether it's worth it on the potential profit, the Government should not be bailing you out. There are those that like to say "Well, there will be people here in the U.S that will lose jobs!" Yeah, probably CEO's and some upper management brass because everything else has been outsourced. Oh Boo Hoo, they'll have to take their MBA's and find another job, in today's job market, clamoring for advanced degree's, that could take all of.. oh.. 3 minutes?