Two sets of poll results in the Torygraph recently: 71% of people want a referendum on the new EU treaty, 68% of people admit to not knowing what's in it.  That means that *at best* one third of our population wants to be able to vote on something they don't know anything about.

At worst (and here, I'm betting that an overwhelming majority of the 32% of people who think they *do* know what's in the treaty have only read the Mail/Torygraph/Sun headlines), we're talking a majority of our electorate going into a referendum which may well decide the future not just of our country but of Western Europe without a frigging clue what they're voting on.  Yet the clamour for a referendum is increasing.

In a recent parody, I wrote:
Well, so much for democracy
Look at what it's become:
Government of the stupid
By the bozos, for the dumb
There are times when I hate being proved right  >:(

I was wondering: if we do have a referendum, might it be possible to have a precondition attached: before you can vote, you need to show that you understand what it is you're voting for (or against).  Or at the very least have read the thing.

Two sets of poll results in the Torygraph recently: 71% of people want a referendum on the new EU treaty, 68% of people admit to not knowing what's in it.  That means that *at best* one third of our population wants to be able to vote on something they don't know anything about.



We have a saying over here, "My mind's made up, don't cofuse me with facts!"
:D

I was surprised when I sent an e-mail to some friends in regard to the new EU treaty and a referendum on it and was essentially greeted with the e-mail equivalent of blank stares.

I do find it funny though, nobody wants it, but nobody knows what it is.  ;D

I do find it funny though, nobody wants it, but nobody knows what it is.  ;D

The current mode of decision-making in the EU is unsustainable: it doesn't work at the size things are, and with the newer Eastern bloc countries wanting entry, getting any decisions made simply won't happen.

Unfortunately, the people who wield most power in the EU (the various countries' heads of government - NOT the European parliament) are not keen to relinquish that power, at least in part because that will be construed as "defeat" by the press at home.  So you end up with the idiotic kluge that was the "Constitution" (a pointless name that caused the downfall of a necessary treaty), and the son-of-Constitution "treaty" that has a lot of the necessary measures from the first one because they're necessary for the functioning of the whole shebang, and has hit lots of objections because of it.

I'm tending to the idea that we ought to have a "ratify this treaty or just pull out of Europe altogether" referendum - a kind of "put up or shut up" to the Eurosceptic right wing.

Thing is, I'm really rather pro-EU... but I'd rather be outside the sort of integrated, federal Europe that Barroso wants.    But, as President of the Commission, in theory Barroso has no political position whatsoever: his job is to oversee the implementation of what everybody else decides.  But I don't think anyone has told him that...

The current mode of decision-making in the EU is unsustainable: it doesn't work at the size things are, and with the newer Eastern bloc countries wanting entry, getting any decisions made simply won't happen.

Unfortunately, the people who wield most power in the EU (the various countries' heads of government - NOT the European parliament) are not keen to relinquish that power, at least in part because that will be construed as "defeat" by the press at home.  So you end up with the idiotic kluge that was the "Constitution" (a pointless name that caused the downfall of a necessary treaty), and the son-of-Constitution "treaty" that has a lot of the necessary measures from the first one because they're necessary for the functioning of the whole shebang, and has hit lots of objections because of it.

I'm tending to the idea that we ought to have a "ratify this treaty or just pull out of Europe altogether" referendum - a kind of "put up or shut up" to the Eurosceptic right wing.

Thing is, I'm really rather pro-EU... but I'd rather be outside the sort of integrated, federal Europe that Barroso wants.    But, as President of the Commission, in theory Barroso has no political position whatsoever: his job is to oversee the implementation of what everybody else decides.  But I don't think anyone has told him that...


My general opinion of the EU is fairly low, but that's not to say I don't believe it should exist. Having a Euro-centered body keeping an eye on member states in regard to dangerous economic and political trends as well as observing human rights and such like is an excellent idea.. but.. having the EU involved in day to day governance of said member states is a terrible idea, it moves at the pace of molasseses.

The kind of federal state that some pro-Europe sorts want is all well and good in a dream world, but it took war, strife and dissolution before it was finally accepted here, where for the most part everybody was white, Christian and English speaking, imagine trying to do the same thing in Europe!  :o

Thing is, I'm really rather pro-EU... but I'd rather be outside the sort of integrated, federal Europe that Barroso wants.    But, as President of the Commission, in theory Barroso has no political position whatsoever: his job is to oversee the implementation of what everybody else decides.  But I don't think anyone has told him that...


Barroso likes to think of Europe as a "good empire",whatever that is ::) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8M1T-GgRU


The kind of federal state that some pro-Europe sorts want is all well and good in a dream world, but it took war, strife and dissolution before it was finally accepted here, where for the most part everybody was white, Christian and English speaking, imagine trying to do the same thing in Europe!  :o


I agree with you,what i think Europe lacks,and what keeps it from the federal route,is a true sense of unity,each country is very unique and proud of their independence,history,culture,they only feel european if they travel to other continent,or when they want to keep the illegal immigrants out. Plus they don't see eachother as equals at all,i remember the portuguese were always complaining about how they were like sheep following the big guys (Germany,France,UK) around.

I agree with you,what i think Europe lacks,and what keeps it from the federal route,is a true sense of unity,each country is very unique and proud of their independence,history,culture,they only feel european if they travel to other continent,or when they want to keep the illegal immigrants out. Plus they don't see eachother as equals at all,i remember the portuguese were always complaining about how they were like sheep following the big guys (Germany,France,UK) around.


Exactly, you can't sweep 3000 years of history under the rug.