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Subject: The Price of US Goods

Written By: danootaandme on 11/28/07 at 11:12 am

There is much being said about the price of goods in the US.  They are putting the spin on that because the dollar is so weak people are spending their money here, and that is good for the economy here. Is anyone falling for this?  People from other countries find it cheaper to come here to buy items made in China, items that more and more Americans cannot afford. 

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: CatwomanofV on 11/28/07 at 11:46 am

The whole thing is so full of s**t that it really stinks to the high heaven. These so-called trade agreements only help the corporations' bottom line. They take jobs away from American workers-so Americans can't afford to buy anything but the crap that is made in China (and yes, it is CRAP!! Full of lead, the date-rape drug, etc.) It is basically turning the U.S. into a third-world country. And the corporations and the people in Washington-who are in bed together- call it "Progress" or "Globalization." They are benefiting from this atrocity while the American people suffer-and I find it appalling that they try to tell the American people that this is a GOOD thing.  >:( >:( >:(



Cat 

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: esoxslayer on 11/28/07 at 7:17 pm

I'm torn on this issue and am not quite sure I'm not going to take this off on some tangent...

I watched many many carloads of Canadians here this past weekend for "Black Friday" and the weekend buying up stuff galore at the malls in both Watertown and in Syracuse, the strong Canadian dollar made many people come over here where in years past, it worked the other way..

As far as Chinese junk..I'm torn there as well.  As a contractor, I have the need to buy many power and hand tools.  I've started buying Ridgid almost exclusively..made in China, but with the best warranty in the business...lifetime warranty on their cordless tool batteries.....when one fails, return it and you get a new one free.  Have a Milwaukee battery fail and get ready to drop a hundred or more for one simple battery, and upward of 150 bucks if it happens to be one of those new lithium ion 28 volt ones...if my 24 volt Ridgid battery dies, it's replaced free, no matter how old it is...

Now, for the "American made" stuff...Dewalt, Porter Cable, (both owned now by Black and Decker..made in Mexico..no real warranty to speak of, and nothing if you use it as a professional versus as a do it yourselfer...Ridgid doesn't discriminate in this case...lifetime warranty regardless of useage level.....why should I waste my money on "American" name tools when it's got no warranty, costs more and isn't made here in the States anyway??

The best made tools right now are either imported from the far east or from Europe...the American stuff is junk by comparison..tolerances on domestic stuff is lacking, where the European stuff is exacting, and so is the Chinese stuff...

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: Macphisto on 11/28/07 at 8:22 pm

On average, we do have a lower cost of living than most First World nations.  Granted, certain areas are especially expensive, like California and New York City.

As far as how this relates to the falling dollar, it mostly means imports are more expensive than usual (with the exception of goods made in the Third World).  We also have much lower sales taxes than most First World nations.

For example, compare North Carolina's 7% sales tax to the U.K.'s 17.5% VAT.  This also helps contribute to a lot of foreign spending here.  Vacationing in America is a steal for most Europeans.

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/28/07 at 11:08 pm


On average, we do have a lower cost of living than most First World nations.  Granted, certain areas are especially expensive, like California and New York City.

As far as how this relates to the falling dollar, it mostly means imports are more expensive than usual (with the exception of goods made in the Third World).  We also have much lower sales taxes than most First World nations.

For example, compare North Carolina's 7% sales tax to the U.K.'s 17.5% VAT.  This also helps contribute to a lot of foreign spending here.  Vacationing in America is a steal for most Europeans.


We have the largest gap between wealth and poverty than any of the other so-called "first world" nations.  In spite of what the corporate media tells us, I see the middle class foundering.  There is less social mobility upwards and more social mobility downwards than there was a generation ago.  Everything the current government is doing is exacerbating the problem.  The government-media complex is trying to keep a lid on it, but I think this is causing much more of the tension, anger, distrust, and despair than the mainstream will ever let on.

Cost of living and quality of life are not one in the same.

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: Macphisto on 11/29/07 at 12:00 am


We have the largest gap between wealth and poverty than any of the other so-called "first world" nations.  In spite of what the corporate media tells us, I see the middle class foundering.  There is less social mobility upwards and more social mobility downwards than there was a generation ago.  Everything the current government is doing is exacerbating the problem.  The government-media complex is trying to keep a lid on it, but I think this is causing much more of the tension, anger, distrust, and despair than the mainstream will ever let on.

Cost of living and quality of life are not one in the same.


Good points.  I'd still argue that a lot of the reason for these trends is the size of the federal government.  If we could shift more responsibilities to the states and minimize the federal government, we could also lower federal taxes dramatically while increasing state ones somewhat.

While corporate greed is definitely part of the problem, pork barrel projects, outdated social programs, and ridiculous wars deserve the lion's share of blame.

Much of the dollar's fall can be tied to federal debts and the massive trade deficit.  The former can be easily solved through smaller government and actually devoting more tax money to paying down the debt itself.  The latter is more of a systemic problem that will take years of careful trade policies to reverse.

Finally, the last major contributor to our falling currency is the fact that many of our competing currencies are considered commodity currency.  The Canadian dollar has risen rapidly over the last few years due to the oil and gas boom in Alberta.  If OPEC switches to the Euro, a similar jump in its value will occur as well at the expense of our currency value.  This is yet another reason for us to move away from foreign oil and pursue alternative energy sources.

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/29/07 at 11:55 pm


Good points.  I'd still argue that a lot of the reason for these trends is the size of the federal government.  If we could shift more responsibilities to the states and minimize the federal government, we could also lower federal taxes dramatically while increasing state ones somewhat.

While corporate greed is definitely part of the problem, pork barrel projects, outdated social programs, and ridiculous wars deserve the lion's share of blame.

Much of the dollar's fall can be tied to federal debts and the massive trade deficit.  The former can be easily solved through smaller government and actually devoting more tax money to paying down the debt itself.  The latter is more of a systemic problem that will take years of careful trade policies to reverse.

Finally, the last major contributor to our falling currency is the fact that many of our competing currencies are considered commodity currency.  The Canadian dollar has risen rapidly over the last few years due to the oil and gas boom in Alberta.  If OPEC switches to the Euro, a similar jump in its value will occur as well at the expense of our currency value.  This is yet another reason for us to move away from foreign oil and pursue alternative energy sources.


Ah, whenever Newt Gingrich talked about "reducing the size of the federal government" I had to laugh because Cobb County reigned supreme in pork.  Ron Paul actually means reducing the scope and the power of the federal government when he talks about "smaller government."  You can agree or disagree with that.  The Reagan Republicans only mean part of it--reducing regulatory power over business and cutting taxes for the wealthy.  That doesn't get you very far.  It's disengenous.  How "big" was the federal government in 1980?  How "big" is it today?

I'm sure you would agree most of this "pork" is private favors with public money.  Take the Chicago Housing Authority.  in 1960 they were paying private contractors to build the worst public housing in the nation.  In 2000 they were paying private contractors to raze the worst public housing in the nation.  Everybody's palms get greased and it makes the lot of the poor even worse. 

This is distinguished from a dysfunctional socialist state such as the U.S.S.R. in which you just take the private contractors out of the picture and have the bureaucrats taking the money out of their right pocket and sticking it in their left!
::)

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: danootaandme on 11/30/07 at 7:33 am




Now, for the "American made" stuff...Dewalt, Porter Cable, (both owned now by Black and Decker..made in Mexico..no real warranty to speak of, and nothing if you use it as a professional versus as a do it yourselfer...Ridgid doesn't discriminate in this case...lifetime warranty regardless of useage level.....why should I waste my money on "American" name tools when it's got no warranty, costs more and isn't made here in the States anyway??



That is part of the problem.  The name is American, and they purport to be American companies, but everything they do is "outsourced".  It is this way because of greed.  The crap about not being able to afford to manufacture in the U.S. is just that...crap.  What it is really about is being able to pay workers in other countries subsistence wages and pocketing the difference. The mantra for big business is that it is the labor unions and workers who expect a days pay for a days work who are making them send the work out of the country.  Funny, the CEOs tend to do extremely well with this situation.  The whole "Lee Iaccoca" school of labor management.  He loves to tout that the first year in he worked without a salary. Yes, nice, but he always casually forgets to mention that he received housing, a living allowance, and a 5,000,000(after tax) Christmas bonus that year, thus paving the way for future perk laden CEOs'

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: CatwomanofV on 11/30/07 at 1:05 pm


That is part of the problem.  The name is American, and they purport to be American companies, but everything they do is "outsourced".  It is this way because of greed.  The crap about not being able to afford to manufacture in the U.S. is just that...crap.  What it is really about is being able to pay workers in other countries subsistence wages and pocketing the difference. The mantra for big business is that it is the labor unions and workers who expect a days pay for a days work who are making them send the work out of the country.  Funny, the CEOs tend to do extremely well with this situation.  The whole "Lee Iaccoca" school of labor management.  He loves to tout that the first year in he worked without a salary. Yes, nice, but he always casually forgets to mention that he received housing, a living allowance, and a 5,000,000(after tax) Christmas bonus that year, thus paving the way for future perk laden CEOs'


http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/applause.gif



Cat

Subject: Re: The Price of US Goods

Written By: Macphisto on 11/30/07 at 6:20 pm


Ah, whenever Newt Gingrich talked about "reducing the size of the federal government" I had to laugh because Cobb County reigned supreme in pork.  Ron Paul actually means reducing the scope and the power of the federal government when he talks about "smaller government."  You can agree or disagree with that.  The Reagan Republicans only mean part of it--reducing regulatory power over business and cutting taxes for the wealthy.  That doesn't get you very far.  It's disengenous.  How "big" was the federal government in 1980?  How "big" is it today?

I'm sure you would agree most of this "pork" is private favors with public money.  Take the Chicago Housing Authority.  in 1960 they were paying private contractors to build the worst public housing in the nation.  In 2000 they were paying private contractors to raze the worst public housing in the nation.  Everybody's palms get greased and it makes the lot of the poor even worse. 

This is distinguished from a dysfunctional socialist state such as the U.S.S.R. in which you just take the private contractors out of the picture and have the bureaucrats taking the money out of their right pocket and sticking it in their left!
::)


Pretty much.  I think most government mandated welfare ends up being abused on a massive scale.  This is largely why I lean in the Libertarian direction.  I'm not a pure Libertarian by any means, and Ron Paul does have a few extreme views that I disagree with, but for the most part, I agree with the general idea behind decreasing government.  It's unfortunate that people like Reagan and Gingrich duped people into believing they stood for smaller government, when all they really did was make our culture and economy more corporatist.

Even Ron Paul got duped initially, because he began supporting Reagan when he rose in popularity around the 1980 presidential election, but even he eventually saw how corrupt his former friends had become and briefly joined the Libertarian party.  In certain ways, I think the Republican party has started to move back towards what Paul really wanted it to be but there are still many problems to deal with -- mostly the corporatist bastards in the party like Ted Stevens.  Alaska, in general, is a state made up of people who love to suck up federal funds but don't pay much into the system.

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