Seems that eight is really not enough for some...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ReproductiveHealth/abortion-addict-admits-multiple-abortions-suicide-attempts/story?id=8594347


Subject Title Edited by Moderator

So she has sort of an addiction to abortions.  That is bizarre.  Why isn't she addicted to proper birth control, it would be less damaging to her reproductive system.  Wonder what made her carry the two she has to term?

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say LyricBoy...
She has 2 children and the story in no way relates to Octomom ::)

Seems that eight is really not enough for some...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ReproductiveHealth/abortion-addict-admits-multiple-abortions-suicide-attempts/story?id=8594347


I read the entire article. (I receommend reading the article before posting)

The book is autobiographical and it appears that it might actually help some people.
She confesses that she was in a bad marriage etc. which of course is no excuse to have 15 abortions in 16 years - but to say that she is mentally unstable is reaching.

Looks like I might just have to pick this book up.

Not entirely sure what you are trying to say LyricBoy...
She has 2 children and the story in no way relates to Octomom ::)
I read the entire article. (I receommend reading the article before posting)



Oh, I read the entire article...

Oh, I read the entire article...


So then where did you find the correlation to Octomom in it?
I surely didn't.

Um...  I'm pro-choice, but this is very unhealthy....

Depending on how late she waited to have these procedures done, she's probably set herself up for a lot of serious health problems.

So then where did you find the correlation to Octomom in it?
I surely didn't.


"Can't get enough pregnancy"

"Can't get enough pregnancy"


Since you quoted it, I went and reread the article, and cannot find your quote in it anywhere. So please point it out to me because I appear to be blind!!

The link is about a woman who admits to self mutilation through abortion, and so she wrote a book that may help other people. Nowhere does it describe that she is like Octomom - where she is looking for celebrity because of the things she did, or does it say that she could not get enough pregnancy. The link tells of her 'famous' grandmother and how the mass sterilization in Puerto Rico affected her mother. It tells of her going to University, to become involved and married to a much older professor, and how that relationship was bad and what led to her abortions. Yes, the abortions were while she was married. Furthermore, without the book actually available for a person to read this second, one cannot speculate that she did any of this for celebrity at all. She clearly states that "This book really isn't about using abortion as birth control, ... is unconsciously sabotaging contraception for self-mutilation. It's a way of escaping feeling empty."


Your subject title clearly gives more fame to someone who has done nothing to contribute to society, and your lack of knowledge of the subject in the link proves that you are the type of vessel that someone like Octomom loves to have available to her. You continue to make her more famous than she should be.

Maybe she liked the drugs that they gave her when she was having the abortions.  ???




Cat

Since you quoted it, I went and reread the article, and cannot find your quote in it anywhere. So please point it out to me because I appear to be blind!!

The link is about a woman who admits to self mutilation through abortion, and so she wrote a book that may help other people. Nowhere does it describe that she is like Octomom - where she is looking for celebrity because of the things she did, or does it say that she could not get enough pregnancy. The link tells of her 'famous' grandmother and how the mass sterilization in Puerto Rico affected her mother. It tells of her going to University, to become involved and married to a much older professor, and how that relationship was bad and what led to her abortions. Yes, the abortions were while she was married. Furthermore, without the book actually available for a person to read this second, one cannot speculate that she did any of this for celebrity at all. She clearly states that "This book really isn't about using abortion as birth control, ... is unconsciously sabotaging contraception for self-mutilation. It's a way of escaping feeling empty."


Your subject title clearly gives more fame to someone who has done nothing to contribute to society, and your lack of knowledge of the subject in the link proves that you are the type of vessel that someone like Octomom loves to have available to her. You continue to make her more famous than she should be.


They both liked getting preggers.

LOTS of times.

MORE than your average bear.

THUS the similarity to each other.

ALTHOUGH their modalities obviously were different.

As we say here in the Burgh "Same church, different pew"...

They both liked getting preggers.

LOTS of times.

MORE than your average bear.

THUS the similarity to each other.

ALTHOUGH their modalities obviously were different.

As we say here in the Burgh "Same church, different pew"...


I think it's a control issue.  Both feel they have no control in their lives, except for how many kids to have or not have.

What a sad story.  I completely understand the self-mutilation aspect of it, though.

They both liked getting preggers.


i know the preggers!

;)


I have known several women who have had abortions.  None because of me, thank goodness.  They universally describe it as an unpleasant process. 

I don't know if there's a male analogy, but it makes as much sense as getting "addicted" to colonoscopies.

It sounds like she might be "addicted" to pregnancy, but not abortion.  Hey, it's not the only addiction that makes you throw up in the morning...
:P

I don't know if there's a male analogy, but it makes as much sense as getting "addicted" to colonoscopies.



Colonosopies are not all that bad.  Yeah, the first 1 or 2 were a little uncomfortable, but somewhere around 39 or 40, I really stopped noticing anything.  ;)

You sure you're not addicted?

So she has sort of an addiction to abortions.  That is bizarre.  Why isn't she addicted to proper birth control, it would be less damaging to her reproductive system. 


Good sentence  you got there.  Then I thought- "why aren't some kids addicted to healthy eating and exercise..instead of overeating and then getting surgery OR not eating and becoming bulemic and unhalthey and then going to therapy..."  is it the American way?  I don't know.

Is your health always your private issue?  There was a recent story about a child that had cancer and the parents refused a life-savin treatment because the method interfered with their beliefs.  "They" wanted to step in and take the child away.  When do 'they' have the right to step in and stop you from hurting yourself?


didn't mean to hijack your thread, it's just where my thoughts went.

WAIT A MINUTE!

Why is the story of her abortions more talked about than the story of the US backed mass sterilization of Puerto Rican women? 

WAIT A MINUTE!

Why is the story of her abortions more talked about than the story of the US backed mass sterilization of Puerto Rican women? 




Because it's America and people are fascinated by the nastiness of abortions.  U.S. backed mass sterilizations were done on the poverty stricken women of Puerto Rico because the U.S. backed the upper class of Puerto Rico.  Interestingly enough that very same class they were raging war with immigrated to the U.S.  Nothing like trying to make a "pure state". >:(

Because it's America and people are fascinated by the nastiness of abortions.  U.S. backed mass sterilizations were done on the poverty stricken women of Puerto Rico because the U.S. backed the upper class of Puerto Rico.  Interestingly enough that very same class they were raging war with immigrated to the U.S.  Nothing like trying to make a "pure state". >:(


Puerto Ricans don't immigrate to the US, they are part of US. 

Puerto Ricans don't immigrate to the US, they are part of US. 


Ummm, no they don't have statheood.  Actually there are some that are proud that Puerto Rico is not a state.

WAIT A MINUTE!

Why is the story of her abortions more talked about than the story of the US backed mass sterilization of Puerto Rican women?  




If we helped force people into sterilization, that's pretty f***ed up.

On the other hand, if it was voluntary...  then I don't see a problem.

To be honest, a voluntary program of sterilization even here wouldn't be such a bad thing to keep poverty controlled.  For example, if we offered homeless people and people on welfare $1,000 per sterilization, that would reduce the number of children born into poverty while at the same time saving our system a lot of money in the long run.

I guess the point is...  as long as the system is voluntary, sterilization isn't a problem.  But yeah, forced sterilization is another issue altogether....

But yeah, forced sterilization is another issue altogether....


From a quick Google search, it looks like it was forced... :-\\

Ummm, no they don't have statheood.  Actually there are some that are proud that Puerto Rico is not a state.



Not having statheood is not a bar to citizenship. They are a territory, they have US passports, they are "disenfranchised citizens", but citizens none the less.

Not having statheood is not a bar to citizenship. They are a territory, they have US passports, they are "disenfranchised citizens", but citizens none the less.


The Jones Foraker act of, I think, 1914.  So Puerto Ricans are the only folks made citizens by act of congress.  I guess you gringos really like us PR's.  Just in time for the WWI draft.


If we helped force people into sterilization, that's pretty f***ed up.

On the other hand, if it was voluntary...  then I don't see a problem.

To be honest, a voluntary program of sterilization even here wouldn't be such a bad thing to keep poverty controlled.  For example, if we offered homeless people and people on welfare $1,000 per sterilization, that would reduce the number of children born into poverty while at the same time saving our system a lot of money in the long run.

I guess the point is...  as long as the system is voluntary, sterilization isn't a problem.  But yeah, forced sterilization is another issue altogether....


This sounds a lot like eugenics to me, forced or not, because the implication is that poor people are inferior.

Not having statheood is not a bar to citizenship. They are a territory, they have US passports, they are "disenfranchised citizens", but citizens none the less.


I need to use that line of reasoning at the Lancaster city council meeting.  Puerto Ricans are seen worse than Mexicans are in California. :(

Not having statheood is not a bar to citizenship. They are a territory, they have US passports, they are "disenfranchised citizens", but citizens none the less.


They also don't pay income taxes yet receive tax money from our government.

When looking at it from an economic viewpoint, Puerto Rico is a drain on America.  It lost its relevance to our strategic interests long ago and needs to be given independence again.

This sounds a lot like eugenics to me, forced or not, because the implication is that poor people are inferior.


I'm not necessarily against all of eugenics.  I don't believe poor people are inferior, but I do prefer implementing practical programs that control the population growth of the poor, so as to improve the economy and reduce welfare spending.

Again, as long as sterilization is a choice and not forced, I'm in favor of it.  I'd even favor letting all citizens take advantage of this system (poor, middle class, or rich) in order to keep population growth controlled overall.

For the most part, America already grows all it needs to with immigration -- legal and illegal.  Sterilization is a viable method of keeping "native" population growth controlled and also opens the door for controlling immigrant population growth as well.

Perhaps, all of this has eugenicist overtones, but to take a cue from philbo, I don't dismiss all of an ideology's or society's views just because many of them might be screwed up.

In the case where I had this sort of discussion with philbo, he pointed out that we borrow a lot from the Ancient Romans in terms of democracy and republics.  So, even though they were a very classist society with a huge slave population, we still garnered some wisdom from them.

By the same token, even eugenicists had a few good ideas to expand upon, despite their inherent classism and racism.

To be honest, a voluntary program of sterilization even here wouldn't be such a bad thing to keep poverty controlled.  For example, if we offered homeless people and people on welfare $1,000 per sterilization, that would reduce the number of children born into poverty while at the same time saving our system a lot of money in the long run.

I guess the point is...  as long as the system is voluntary, sterilization isn't a problem.  But yeah, forced sterilization is another issue altogether....


Open it up to all and raise the money paid to, say, 5 or 10k (along with a free procedure) and you'd have something there.

Ant

I need to use that line of reasoning at the Lancaster city council meeting.  Puerto Ricans are seen worse than Mexicans are in California. :(


I have used it, then went on to say that I would rather a Puerto Rican than a Texas Republican.  A lot of people agreed.  ;D

I heard mention of this on the radio....then a tale of Netflix putting cable outta biz.

nestled in there with the important stuff.  I find I am occasionally torn by some people's right to choose...then it sounds so fascist that I can't think about it.  I'ts hard to discuss without saying things
that sound awful.

Open it up to all and raise the money paid to, say, 5 or 10k (along with a free procedure) and you'd have something there.

Ant


True...  and it would probably still be cheaper than paying out what we do in welfare...

I'm not necessarily against all of eugenics.  I don't believe poor people are inferior, but I do prefer implementing practical programs that control the population growth of the poor, so as to improve the economy and reduce welfare spending.

Again, as long as sterilization is a choice and not forced, I'm in favor of it.  I'd even favor letting all citizens take advantage of this system (poor, middle class, or rich) in order to keep population growth controlled overall.

For the most part, America already grows all it needs to with immigration -- legal and illegal.  Sterilization is a viable method of keeping "native" population growth controlled and also opens the door for controlling immigrant population growth as well.

Perhaps, all of this has eugenicist overtones, but to take a cue from philbo, I don't dismiss all of an ideology's or society's views just because many of them might be screwed up.

In the case where I had this sort of discussion with philbo, he pointed out that we borrow a lot from the Ancient Romans in terms of democracy and republics.  So, even though they were a very classist society with a huge slave population, we still garnered some wisdom from them.

By the same token, even eugenicists had a few good ideas to expand upon, despite their inherent classism and racism.



Nope.  That's eugenics.  Pure, unadulterated racism, fella.  Pretty f**ked up on your part, if you ask me.
>:(

Nope.  That's eugenics.  Pure, unadulterated racism, fella.  Pretty f**ked up on your part, if you ask me.
>:(


I see it as pragmatism.  Call me whatever you like, but I'm not going to pretend that my views are politically correct.

I see it as pragmatism.  Call me whatever you like, but I'm not going to pretend that my views are politically correct.


PC ain't got nothing to do with it.  You're talking some kind of Huxleyian dystopia!

PC ain't got nothing to do with it.  You're talking some kind of Huxleyian dystopia!

Voluntary sterilization is quite different from compulsory.  If someone is willing to be sterilized for a certain amount of money, who are we to stop them?

If someone voluntarily gets sterilized and it ends up saving me money...  why would I want to stop them?

If sterilization (again voluntary) also decreases the number of children being raised in poverty...  why would I want to change that trend?

A Huxleyan dystopia is more applicable to instant gratification -- like our eagerness to solve all of our problems with medication.

I'm tending towards Mac's position on this one - though rather than say "the poor", or *any* other group, have a mass voluntary sterilization program, period.

Overpopulation is already a problem in some places in the world, and it's going to get a bigger and bigger one as medical technology improves and blinkered idiots like the Pope *still* take the "more people is better" position.  Either we're going to be seeing mass death and "tragedy" as food supplies can't keep up with a burgeoning population, or we try not adding to that population.  OK.. so I'm a hypocrite with four children (though neither my sister nor my wife's elder sister have any.. on average the family's not increasing things).  But I'm definitely not having any more ;)

Nope.  That's eugenics.  Pure, unadulterated racism, fella.  Pretty f**ked up on your part, if you ask me.
>:(


Thanks Max.  I was just to damned angry and frustrated to reply.

Thanks Max.  I was just to damned angry and frustrated to reply.


See Phil's response for a more logical assessment.

You can play the race card all you want, but I haven't targeted any race with this.  I've only proposed a voluntary program that anyone could use, and that the poor would have in their best interests to use.

Blind emotion gets you nowhere.

I'm not necessarily against all of eugenics.  I don't believe poor people are inferior, but I do prefer implementing practical programs that control the population growth of the poor, so as to improve the economy and reduce welfare spending.

Again, as long as sterilization is a choice and not forced, I'm in favor of it.  I'd even favor letting all citizens take advantage of this system (poor, middle class, or rich) in order to keep population growth controlled overall.

For the most part, America already grows all it needs to with immigration -- legal and illegal.  Sterilization is a viable method of keeping "native" population growth controlled and also opens the door for controlling immigrant population growth as well.

Perhaps, all of this has eugenicist overtones, but to take a cue from philbo, I don't dismiss all of an ideology's or society's views just because many of them might be screwed up.

In the case where I had this sort of discussion with philbo, he pointed out that we borrow a lot from the Ancient Romans in terms of democracy and republics.  So, even though they were a very classist society with a huge slave population, we still garnered some wisdom from them.

By the same token, even eugenicists had a few good ideas to expand upon, despite their inherent classism and racism.



Then again maybe education, good jobs, and health(mental and physical) benefits, could achieve the same goal. 

Then again maybe education, good jobs, and health(mental and physical) benefits, could achieve the same goal. 


I'm in favor of these in conjunction with sterilization.

Then again maybe education, good jobs, and health(mental and physical) benefits, could achieve the same goal.  


What are you, a commie or sumpin'? No re-redistributing the wealth around here.  Those boys on Wall Street worked real hard to steal it from us, so you could show maybe a little gratitude instead of talking like some campus Marxist!

--Blenn Geck

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/BangHead.gif


BTW, voluntary sterilization on a temporary basis  is better known as contraception, and Republicans and conservatives have fought for generations against access to and education about contraception for those who need it most.

Voluntary sterilization on a permanent basis via physical alteration (such as vasectomy or tubal ligation) can easily be made compulsory by denial of state benefits by those who refuse to undergo such procedures.  Such a program would inevitably target people of African, Latin, and Native American descent as they are disproportionately poor.  It would, in essence, become a eugenics program.

Furthermore, I knew two different women, one Black, the other Puerto Rican, who had their tubes tied involuntarily at New York hospitals.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/nono.gif

Voluntary sterilization on a permanent basis via physical alteration (such as vasectomy or tubal ligation) can easily be made compulsory by denial of state benefits by those who refuse to undergo such procedures.  Such a program would inevitably target people of African, Latin, and Native American descent as they are disproportionately poor.  It would, in essence, become a eugenics program.



At the same time, and I do not know what the answer is here, society has a right to do SOMETHING about people who are on welfare and while on welfare and subsidized housing create families of 5-7-9-12 children by numerous fathers, none of whom live at the house, and Uncle Sam is stuck with the tab.

I'm not talking about somebody who had a large family that they were supporting and have fallen on hard times.  I'm talking about career welfare mothers.  Yes they are certainly in the minority of welfare recipients, but why should the people of the United States have to pay for their nasty ways? ???

I'm not talking about somebody who had a large family that they were supporting and have fallen on hard times.  I'm talking about career welfare mothers. 



....and the fathers as well?

....and the fathers as well?


Oh yeah, no doubt about that.  You got some welfare bum who has 12 kids with his name on them, sure something should be done with him too.  Bobbitize him.

Naturally it will be easier to ID the mothers because there is no doubt as to the maternity of the children.