OK, so Donald Trump came out with a fairly lame set of criticisms of O'bama... the "birther" thing and intimating that somehow he was a poor student who should not have gotten into Harvard (based apparently on Obama's comments that he had been a poor student).

I agree.. pretty silly remarks by The Donald.

But now I am seeing the MFNBC news team all in a lather that this is clearly evidence that Trump is a racist.  Ah yes, pull out the race card.  Anybody who criticizes Obama (legitimately or not) is a racist, a tried-and-true KKK-er.

Nonsense.  The "birther" claims have nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality.

And as I recall, during Dubya's term, people were regularly calling him stupid and whatnot, even though he was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard.  I don't recall his critics being called racists.

Trump's remarks expose him (again) for the buffoon he has always been.  Thise crying "racism" expose themselves likewise as people of similarly no substance, perpetuating their silliness and ultimately degrading their own cause...  ::)

Dubya WAS stupid!  The same people who believe that President Obama was passed through on college by affirmative action should also concede that Dubya was pushed through with connections!

Dubya WAS stupid!  The same people who believe that President Obama was passed through on college by affirmative action should also concede that Dubya was pushed through with connections!



Well of course Dubya got in through connections.

But why would anybody be offended if O'bama got into the League via affirmative action? ???

But now I am seeing the MFNBC news team all in a lather that this is clearly evidence that Trump is a racist.  Ah yes, pull out the race card.  Anybody who criticizes Obama (legitimately or not) is a racist, a tried-and-true KKK-er.

Nonsense.  The "birther" claims have nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality.
I think you might be going just a little bit over the top there - it isn't "legitimately or not" - it's more that there are those who are bashing on (and on) about things that aren't legitimate criticism, they're palpable rubbish, so what's the rationale behind them?  Can you show any examples of legitimate criticism being met with calls of racism?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the irrational ongoing belief that Obama (why the idiotic apostrophe, btw?  The one thing he isn't is Irish) wasn't born in the US and so wouldn't be a legitimate president is motivated by an underlying racism, but that is not the same as saying "a tried and true KKK-er" - you're exaggerating to try and make the racism claim seem absurd.

Is it simply because he's a Democrat? In which case, how many other Democrat (or Republican, for that matter) presidents have had their legitimacy questioned, even after what a reasonable person would take as being conclusive evidence to hte contrary?

Have to admit that Trump looks a positively fudgewitted buffoon, which does seem to make him a fairly strong candidate for the Republicans the way things are looking.  Is there anyone over there even remotely credible looking to stand against Obama in '12?

As a really good New York Times op-ed put it, "It is inconceivable that this campaign to portray Mr. Obama as the insidious “other” would have been conducted against a white president."

I mean, think about it.  When, in the entire history of the U.S. presidency, has nationality been an issue except with our first black president?

In Nov. 2008, history was made when the U.S. elected the first black president. Not everyone was happy-and it has nothing to do with Obama's credentials. It had to do with the color of his skin. But, in this day & age, you can't come out and say that because that would be "politically incorrect". So, they had to come up with some other angle to make him "unfit" to be the Commander in Chief. Enter the birther movement. Yeah, it was started by the idiot Orly Tates but anyone who jumped on this bandwagon has proved that they are also idiots. But, even when presented with solid evidence, they still won't except it because they feel that Obama is an illegitimate president because he is black.

And now, Trump is questioning Obama's acceptance into Harvard which makes it sound like he thinks that a black man can't be smart enough to get into Harvard.

Jim Crow ended over 40 years ago but that doesn't mean that racism in this country also ended. Just because we elected a black man, also doesn't mean that racism in this country has ended. It is still alive and well but shows itself in different ways rather then with signs saying "Whites Only" or "Blacks Only". And when it raises its ugly head in disguised ways and people call it for what it is, those same people who put it out there are so quick to say, "I'm not racist" or "This isn't about race." Then what is it about? It IS about race! And the sooner we recognize that fact and call it for what it is-we can expose racism and hopefully once it is out in the light, we can kill it once and for all-but I guess that is just a pipe dream.



Cat

I don't think Trump pulled out the race card with having to do with Obama's birth certificate. I do think with other people who make the birther claims though it does have to do with race sadly like the extreme right.

With Trump though he was just curious as to why Obama wouldn't show his birth certificate because maybe it said Muslim on it.

I don't think Trump pulled out the race card with having to do with Obama's birth certificate. I do think with other people who make the birther claims though it does have to do with race sadly like the extreme right.

With Trump though he was just curious as to why Obama wouldn't show his birth certificate because maybe it said Muslim on it.


He's not a Muslim.  I don't think he's a Christian either, but he certainly isn't a Muslim.  And even if he was, so what?  I would even welcome it, an even more encouraging development for our country.

But now I am seeing the MFNBC news team all in a lather that this is clearly evidence that Trump is a racist.  Ah yes, pull out the race card.  Anybody who criticizes Obama (legitimately or not) is a racist, a tried-and-true KKK-er.

Nonsense.  The "birther" claims have nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality.

And as I recall, during Dubya's term, people were regularly calling him stupid and whatnot, even though he was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard.  I don't recall his critics being called racists.

Trump's remarks expose him (again) for the buffoon he has always been.  Thise crying "racism" expose themselves likewise as people of similarly no substance, perpetuating their silliness and ultimately degrading their own cause...  ::)


ugh... you're serious?  really?

The reason Bush was criticized for his education was simply because the data proved it out. He was a "legacy" and he did poorly at school.  The fact he could buy his way into the schools and graduate them says more about those schools than they do of him. The fact he learned little while at those schools was born out every time he spoke.

If Obama got in based on affirmative action alone, he'd never had made it into the top of his class or made editor of the Harvard Review.  Without a big money background he'd likely have flunked out if he didn't have the chops to be there. If it was affirmative action, it must have been a really short lived phenomenon since his accomplishments in school haven't been repeated by another African American. The argument falls apart so quickly after it's made it's almost sad to hear it made.

As for racism of the birthers, ever see one of their tea party rallies? Ever ask them what the consequences of him being born somewhere else would even be? His mother is an American so even if his father wasn't and he wasn't born within the borders of the country.  They seem to be quite knowledgeable about "anchor babies" but then totally ignore that information when it applies to Obama. They certainly didn't make the same argument against McCain who was born to American parents on a military base in another country.  I didn't see the same level of "not American" nonsense logged by the left-wing side of the aisle (didn't see any at all).

Maybe it's possible you don't have to be a racist to be a birther, but I haven't seen any examples of non-racist birthers.  I've seen plenty of birthers who are racists though.

He's not a Muslim.  I don't think he's a Christian either, but he certainly isn't a Muslim.  And even if he was, so what?  I would even welcome it, an even more encouraging development for our country.


he's not Christian, but.... what about Jeremiah Wright?  He's totally Christian and supposedly Obama was a white-hatin' SOB because he was a strident follower of this preacher.  It's another example of the right-wing making two separate arguments that totally conflict with one another and prove both are probably false.

I know.  I'm an Obama supporter and a left winger same as you.  In fact I think he might be an atheist, and I would even welcome that.

Well of course Dubya got in through connections.

But why would anybody be offended if O'bama got into the League via affirmative action? ???


I reckon lots of folks would bitch and moan about affirmative action, including Trump.  I mean, we can't prove Trump was implying racial suspicion about the Harvard admission...but I mean, come on! Does The Donald think we all just fell off the back of the turnip truck?
::)

So, let's say his grades fro Occidental and Columbia were less than stellar and the Harvard admissions office decided to take a gamble on him.  Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review and graduated summa cum laude.  Now he's POTUS.  Pretty good gamble wouldn't you say?  

Who gives a rat's ass if he got a C+ in geology in his sophomore year? (that's what I got, BTW)

The birthers are screaming about the grades because they're desperate.  Obama released his long-form birth certificate and took the wind out of their sails.  

Next they're going to demand he drop his drawers so's they can see if he's circumcised!
:-\\

He's not a Muslim. I don't think he's a Christian either, but he certainly isn't a Muslim.  And even if he was, so what?  I would even welcome it, an even more encouraging development for our country.
Yeah but didn't he say he was a Christian? I mean I take him at his word about his religion that he is a Christian if thats what he says. Yeah I know he is not a muslim.

Yeah but didn't he say he was a Christian? I mean I take him at his word about his religion.


Obama is a Christian.  Protestant.  Probably Congregationalist given that he was going to the Trinity United Church of Christ.  BUT if he was Muslim, Jewish, Jain, Buddhist, or atheist it would, on principle, make no difference.  There shall be no religious test for holding public office, according the U.S. Constitution, Art. VI, paragraph 3.

I think you might be going just a little bit over the top there - it isn't "legitimately or not" - it's more that there are those who are bashing on (and on) about things that aren't legitimate criticism, they're palpable rubbish, so what's the rationale behind them?  Can you show any examples of legitimate criticism being met with calls of racism?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the irrational ongoing belief that Obama (why the idiotic apostrophe, btw?  The one thing he isn't is Irish) wasn't born in the US and so wouldn't be a legitimate president is motivated by an underlying racism, but that is not the same as saying "a tried and true KKK-er" - you're exaggerating to try and make the racism claim seem absurd.

Is it simply because he's a Democrat? In which case, how many other Democrat (or Republican, for that matter) presidents have had their legitimacy questioned, even after what a reasonable person would take as being conclusive evidence to hte contrary?

Have to admit that Trump looks a positively fudgewitted buffoon, which does seem to make him a fairly strong candidate for the Republicans the way things are looking.  Is there anyone over there even remotely credible looking to stand against Obama in '12?


First off, O'bama indeed has some distant Irish roots and he had even joked that "O'bama" was a cool Irish name.  ;D

What exactly consitutes "legitimate" criticism?  Now mind you I never sybscribed to the whole "birther" thing, but O'bama fanned the flames by withholding his birth cert.  Ultimately he determined that he was better off not keeping the cert (which of course supports his citizenship) a secret.

Why do you think the "birther" phenomenon is racist?  Just because O'bama is half-black? Every time he takes serious criticism ('legitimate' or not) his defenders immediately reach for the race card.  I DO have to give O'bama credit... I have rarely seen him describe his critics as racists.

What will stand against O'bama in 2012?  Well, his record, of course.  The unions are already talking about withholding funds because of unfulfilled promises, such as his previously-stated desire to do away with secret ballots for unions.

Next they're going to demand he drop his drawers so's they can see if he's circumcised!
:-\\


Hmm... Might be a good strategy...  http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/naughty.gif

he's not Christian, but.... what about Jeremiah Wright?  He's totally Christian and supposedly Obama was a white-hatin' SOB because he was a strident follower of this preacher.  It's another example of the right-wing making two separate arguments that totally conflict with one another and prove both are probably false.


Well to a degree, criticisms regarding Jeremiah Wright were relevant and legitimate.  Obama was regularly vitinging a church where its leader was vilifying white people and all that rot.  At some point you have to make a stand and say you're not going to put up with that sort of stuff.  Eventually Obama did just that... too bad it happened while he just happened to be running for office.

If a prominent Republican politician was a congregant of that doofus "Reverend Jones" (they guy who protests at funerals), you can certainly bet your bottom dollar that the Dems would make a big deal of that... and quite frankly that would be fair game.

Is there anyone over there even remotely credible looking to stand against Obama in '12?


Intersting article I found here...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11118/1142628-100.stm

In Pennsylvania, a Quinnipac poll showed that in an election featuring President Obama against "an unnamed Repuiblican challenger" he would lose 40-41.  Of course the statistical significance of this is very dicey, but it is equally telling of the perception of the voters.

There shall be no religious test for holding public office, according the U.S. Constitution, Art. VI, paragraph 3.


Already karma'd you.  Owe you one for that.  The Constitution applies or it doesn't.


What exactly consitutes "legitimate" criticism?  Now mind you I never sybscribed to the whole "birther" thing, but O'bama fanned the flames by withholding his birth cert.


I know you're not a birther, but this argument doesn't hold water unless you think that Glenn Beck only fanned the flames by not clarifying what happened with regards to the rape and murder of a young girl in 1990.

When Trump pretended to take the birthers seriously in order to solidify his position amongst the Elephant base, he opened himself up to this counterattack.  The Jackasses can now use this as a wedge issue: an Elephant Presidential primary candidate must either be a birther like Trump (and therefore make himself unelectable in the 2012 general election where sane people get to vote), or any Elephant Presidential primary candidate who is not a birther must now be part of the vast Jackass conspiracy (and therefore cannot get the nomination).

Catch-22, it's the best catch there is.  Karl Rove couldn't have set it up better.

First off, O'bama indeed has some distant Irish roots and he had even joked that "O'bama" was a cool Irish name.   ;D

What exactly consitutes "legitimate" criticism?  Now mind you I never sybscribed to the whole "birther" thing, but O'bama fanned the flames by withholding his birth cert.  Ultimately he determined that he was better off not keeping the cert (which of course supports his citizenship) a secret.

Why do you think the "birther" phenomenon is racist?  Just because O'bama is half-black? Every time he takes serious criticism ('legitimate' or not) his defenders immediately reach for the race card.  I DO have to give O'bama credit... I have rarely seen him describe his critics as racists.

What will stand against O'bama in 2012?  Well, his record, of course.  The unions are already talking about withholding funds because of unfulfilled promises, such as his previously-stated desire to do away with secret ballots for unions.


Or the unions might take issue with even bigger problems, such as...oh, I don't know, the Republican Party trying to get rid of unions entirely?

black people always pull out the race card.
DATS WHY YOU CAN'T TOUCH EM IN COURT

black people always pull out the race card.
DATS WHY YOU CAN'T TOUCH EM IN COURT



http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/bradly2795/lol_wut.jpg

First off, O'bama indeed has some distant Irish roots and he had even joked that "O'bama" was a cool Irish name.   ;D
:)
..but you haven't answered the question: why do you use it?

What exactly consitutes "legitimate" criticism?
Blaming him for something he actually has some control over, for one - suggesting things he has done which he said he wouldn't; not done which he said he would.. that sort of thing. Things he has done or not when there is a valid reason for the opposite course of action.

But not (for example) blaming him for the state of the economy before he even became president; pretending he has said or done something he hasn't, or that he is something he isn't - there is one heck of a lot of that going on at the moment.  *Most* of the critical reportage that makes its way across the Atlantic is of this variety.  I was going to say "all", but it's only "nearly all".  The emotional barrage of just plain lies that are being told is simply toxic - it's poisoning debate, and there are people who, whether through prejudice (racial or otherwise) or simple confirmation bias appear to believe an awful lot of utter rubbish about the guy.

Now mind you I never sybscribed to the whole "birther" thing, but O'bama fanned the flames by withholding his birth cert.  Ultimately he determined that he was better off not keeping the cert (which of course supports his citizenship) a secret.
But there was plenty of evidence without that - way more than enough to satisfy any sensible, unbiased and rational person.

Why do you think the "birther" phenomenon is racist?  Just because O'bama is half-black? Every time he takes serious criticism ('legitimate' or not) his defenders immediately reach for the race card.
I don't know enough to make up my mind whether the "birther" idiots are simply stupid or are racist idiots.  But it wouldn't remotely surprise me... though to be honest, it *would* surprise me if the majority of birther-types could be shown to be free from racial prejudice.

What will stand against O'bama in 2012?  Well, his record, of course.  The unions are already talking about withholding funds because of unfulfilled promises, such as his previously-stated desire to do away with secret ballots for unions.

His "Yes we can" strapline is starting to wear rather thin.. "Well, we might be able to but some things will have to be sacrificed as we don't have enough money / time / Democrats in Congress" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.


Intersting article I found here...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11118/1142628-100.stm

In Pennsylvania, a Quinnipac poll showed that in an election featuring President Obama against "an unnamed Repuiblican challenger" he would lose 40-41.  Of course the statistical significance of this is very dicey, but it is equally telling of the perception of the voters.

..so the Republicans need to find someone who is better than a completely anonymous challenger.  They don't seem to have one of those as yet, though.

Thanks Philbo, karma

Or the unions might take issue with even bigger problems, such as...oh, I don't know, the Republican Party trying to get rid of unions entirely?


Yes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/01/ftn/main20058758.shtml

Yet another commentator who does not understand that by claiming "racism" at every criticism of the President, he fans the flames of racism.

O'bama understands that... and that's why you don't see him playing the race card....

You still haven't answered the question - why do you feel the need to stick in that stupid apostrophe?

black people always pull out the race card.
DATS WHY YOU CAN'T TOUCH EM IN COURT


Oh stop it.  The members of this board don't fall for this crap...

Oh stop it.  The members of this board don't fall for this crap...


I thought the comment spoke for itself.
::)