I know it's the '90s, so don't point it out.  ;D

Does anyone disagree that's it's 80s-like in terms of popular culture?  I think 1990 reeked of the '80s. MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Bill and Ted, Depeche Mode, Ninja Turtles (1990 was the height of Turtlemania), the last days of NES, Poison, Guns 'n' Roses, Roxette.  The hip hop of 1990 was cheesy old school rap, not gangsta.  The television consisted of TGIF and MTV still played some music videos. The World Wide Web was just being invented.

To anyone who believes 1990 fits the '90s stereotype, explain how.

Yeah, I've said it before, but I almost view 1990 as more cheesy than the actual '80s (all it takes is "Ice Ice Baby" ;D - although much of that other stuff you pointed out fits the bill too). Sure, there were cheesy things in 1984, but it felt more "natural" into the times, if you know what I mean.

I will agree 1990 is "beginner 90s" in many ways (the mere presence of rap -- albeit dancey/cheesy pop rap -- the basic death of the yuppie/overspending/oversexed lifestyle and the turn toward a more "serious" mindset in some movies and culture, etc), but it wasn't "90s" 90s the way late 1991+ is.

Yeah, I've said it before, but I almost view 1990 as more cheesy than the actual '80s (all it takes is "Ice Ice Baby" ;D - although much of that other stuff you pointed out fits the bill too). Sure, there were cheesy things in 1984, but it felt more "natural" into the times, if you know what I mean.

I will agree 1990 is "beginner 90s" in many ways (the mere presence of rap -- albeit dancey/cheesy pop rap -- the basic death of the yuppie/overspending/oversexed lifestyle and the turn toward a more "serious" mindset in some movies and culture, etc), but it wasn't "90s" 90s the way late 1991+ is.



Yeah, I agree. As a year 1990 was still very '80s but there were still some '90s trends beginning as well.

By my reckoning there's little to distinguish 1989 from 1990: probably 80% of the TV was the same, ditto with music, and fashion in 1990 was almost 100% 80s. Hair metal possibly reached its crescendo along with Euro-rock bands like the Scorpions (which had been popular throughout the 80s) Roxette and their ilk. We all know the 80s were such a very long-lasted, resonant and influential decade - but the question I'm asking is why? Why did the 80s overstay their welcome?

I'm saying it hedges mainly around television shows like high school dramas, sit-coms, and the fact the world (America in particular) was so stuck in the hole of 'Pizza Hut' culture - it had become an ingrained way of life - it took awhile to dig themselves out of hairspray, snakeskin skirts and corny hair-metal. The 90s could be compared to America gradually clawing itself out of the hole of 'self-pursuit' and materialism that was the 80s.

^That's from our current mindset, though. ;) Or even from a 1993 mindset, 1990 was then "80s", but when 1990 actually was the present, I'm sure it was very very "90s" and "modern" (I remember it being looked at that way from kids at school, btw! People were very excited about it being a new decade).

On the TV side, Roseanne, Saved By the Bell, and the post-Jesse getting married to Rebecca Full House episodes were "nothing like 1984" and "90s" for 1990. Ditto for Paula Abdul, INXS or hair metal ballads.

It was only with late 1991ish that the "very early 90s '90s" started to be grouped in with also being '80s.

^That's from our current mindset, though. ;) Or even from a 1993 mindset, 1990 was then "80s", but when 1990 actually was the present, I'm sure it was very very "90s" and "modern" (I remember it being looked at that way from kids at school, btw! People were very excited about it being a new decade).

On the TV side, Roseanne, Saved By the Bell, and the post-Jesse getting married to Rebecca Full House episodes were "nothing like 1984" and "90s" for 1990. Ditto for Paula Abdul, INXS or hair metal ballads.

It was only with late 1991ish that the "very early 90s '90s" started to be grouped in with also being '80s.


Would you say the transition from the 80s into 90s was pretty seamless, overall? Like people didn't start suddenly realise it was the 90s, and feel they should go about creating a distinguishing '90s' culture, like in the early 00s with Reality TV.etc. It seemed people didn't even realise they were living in the 90s til' they were almost halfway over. Whereas there was a real awareness of living in the early 70s, or the early 00s.

like OMG can we please stop talking about when the 80's ended and 90's began?  This is getting so OLD!!!  Let's just talk about how much we liked the 80's.  What we liked about it.  We've already established how everybody feels about the beginning and end of the 80's!!!!

^That's from our current mindset, though. ;) Or even from a 1993 mindset, 1990 was then "80s", but when 1990 actually was the present, I'm sure it was very very "90s" and "modern" (I remember it being looked at that way from kids at school, btw! People were very excited about it being a new decade).

On the TV side, Roseanne, Saved By the Bell, and the post-Jesse getting married to Rebecca Full House episodes were "nothing like 1984" and "90s" for 1990. Ditto for Paula Abdul, INXS or hair metal ballads.

It was only with late 1991ish that the "very early 90s '90s" started to be grouped in with also being '80s.


Yeah...in terms of TV and such it was quite modern and '90s. The Simpsons and Seinfeld were around that year, and Roseanne was starting to hit its peak. I was watching an episode of Roseanne from 1993 or so last night, and the plotline was referring to the recession, and they quipped: "The '90s-who knew?"  ;D Comparatively, 1990 was '90s, and people were excited about it and thought of it that way, since it was nothing like 1984. People were not that excited about it being the '00s. Another '90sish trend that 1990 started was the rise of house music, which, in terms of influence on music as a whole (chartwise, anyway), was just as important as grunge.

In terms of rock music, 1990 was more 1984ish than 1988-1989-Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, and Boy George actually came back. One thing about 1990 is that the attitude of the year was very firmly '80s, despite a neo-'90s pop culture in some aspects.

^That's from our current mindset, though. ;) Or even from a 1993 mindset, 1990 was then "80s", but when 1990 actually was the present, I'm sure it was very very "90s" and "modern" (I remember it being looked at that way from kids at school, btw! People were very excited about it being a new decade).

On the TV side, Roseanne, Saved By the Bell, and the post-Jesse getting married to Rebecca Full House episodes were "nothing like 1984" and "90s" for 1990. Ditto for Paula Abdul, INXS or hair metal ballads.

It was only with late 1991ish that the "very early 90s '90s" started to be grouped in with also being '80s.


I was thinking the same thing, too. Entering the 1990s was the first time I had experienced going from one decade to the next. Actually "being there" and living it at the time, it did feel new and you felt like you had a different mindset because you were entering a new decade, and that always calls for change and optimisim for change in the future.

I was thinking the same thing, too. Entering the 1990s was the first time I had experienced going from one decade to the next. Actually "being there" and living it at the time, it did feel new and you felt like you had a different mindset because you were entering a new decade, and that always calls for change and optimisim for change in the future.



Yeah, I actually felt the same way back in 2000. Even though technically I was alive when the '90s started I was only 2 at the time so I dont remember it. But going into 2000 I was fully aware that we weren't just going into a new decade, but a new century and a new mellenium as well. It felt pretty neat at the time.

Yeah, I actually felt the same way back in 2000. Even though technically I was alive when the '90s started I was only 2 at the time so I dont remember it. But going into 2000 I was fully aware that we weren't just going into a new decade, but a new century and a new mellenium as well. It felt pretty neat at the time.


Yeah, that was really cool... I am glad we've all gotten to experience that because think of all the little babies born around that time who have no clue of what a big deal that all was!

Yeah, that was really cool... I am glad we've all gotten to experience that because think of all the little babies born around that time who have no clue of what a big deal that all was!



Yeah, I know. Pretty much any kid under 10 right now probably dosen't remember Y2K at all :o

Yeah, I know. Pretty much any kid under 10 right now probably dosen't remember Y2K at all :o


That's kinda weird - weirder than Y2K itself  ;D

I know it's the '90s, so don't point it out.  ;D

Does anyone disagree that's it's 80s-like in terms of popular culture?  I think 1990 reeked of the '80s. MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Bill and Ted, Depeche Mode, Ninja Turtles (1990 was the height of Turtlemania), the last days of NES, Poison, Guns 'n' Roses, Roxette.  The hip hop of 1990 was cheesy old school rap, not gangsta.  The television consisted of TGIF and MTV still played some music videos. The World Wide Web was just being invented.

To anyone who believes 1990 fits the '90s stereotype, explain how.


Not to be picky, but "Bill and Ted" was released in 1989, and the sequel was released in 1991.  So you were off by a year on both accounts  ;)

At the time, hardly anyone in 1990 considered it to be the 80s anymore.  Not like how folks in 2000 were very conscious of the time being still late 90ish. 

I was in 9th and 10th grade at the time, so I was clearly old enough to grasp the world.  I'm trying to think back to 1990, to remember the feel of the year and how it was.  I suppose it was like how 1980 was with the 70s.  1990 was more of an 80s year where it wasn't cool to be 80s or act 80s at all.  It was not cool at all to use any type of 80s slang like "radical" or "fer sure".  Not many people under 25 dared to wear any clothing that was from before 1988, or maybey even before 1989.  The times were rapidly changing, but in more subtle ways that are not as obvious to those of you were too young or just being born back then.  TV shows like Growing Pains and Cosby Show were still on the air, but they were fading fast.  The Bill & Ted sequel came out in 1991, and I thought it was actually a better movie then the original one that came out in 1988, but it bombed at the box office.  Their time had passed.

Mind you, people at that time didn't really consider the fashions of say late 1988 and 1989 to be stereotypical "80s".  Its only when you look back and see 1989 fashions in the early 90s today and you see that New Kids and Hammer were still on the charts that you think "Ohmygod, eaauuu, how 80s.  That's so gay".  The fashions of 1988 and '89 are indeed 80s, but it just wasn't thought of as 80s 80s to the people that lived through the real 1980s.  Ronald Reagan wasn't president anymore and the 1st President Bush and Vice President Dan Quayle were seen as much more modern and new.  It's only through our eyes today that we now see his term as more of an extension of the Reagan presidency that wasn't very new or modern at all.  He didn't do a whole lot different from Reagan.  

Dressing 80s was thought of as more the 1981-'86 look (centering right around 1984) , you know---leg warmers, IZOD shirts, Members Only Jackets, shoes without socks, etc, etc.  Listening to something like Duran Duran or Asia while you watch Miami Vice.  If you asked someone in 1990 how would they dress 80s that's probably what they would say, they would be amazed that you in 00s actually think they are looking pretty damn 80s.  But ofcourse you're thinking of the late 80s.  The problem with 1990 is that it doesn't look like 1994 or 1996.  But how could it?  I do agree that 1990 was a cheesy year and it can all be summed up by the trio of Vanilla Ice, Milli Vanilli and M.C. Hammer.  Vanilla Ice was seen as stupid by kids even in 1990, it was the press that gave him a lot of attention because he was the first big White rapper.  Wilson Phillips had their great album that year though. 

At the time, hardly anyone in 1990 considered it to be the 80s anymore.  Not like how folks in 2000 were very conscious of the time being still late 90ish. 

I was in 9th and 10th grade at the time, so I was clearly old enough to grasp the world.  I'm trying to think back to 1990, to remember the feel of the year and how it was.  I suppose it was like how 1980 was with the 70s.  1990 was more of an 80s year where it wasn't cool to be 80s or act 80s at all.  It was not cool at all to use any type of 80s slang like "radical" or "fer sure".  Not many people under 25 dared to wear any clothing that was from before 1988, or maybey even before 1989.  The times were rapidly changing, but in more subtle ways that are not as obvious to those of you were too young or just being born back then.  TV shows like Growing Pains and Cosby Show were still on the air, but they were fading fast.  The Bill & Ted sequel came out in 1991, and I thought it was actually a better movie then the original one that came out in 1988, but it bombed at the box office.  Their time had passed.

Mind you, people at that time didn't really consider the fashions of say late 1988 and 1989 to be stereotypical "80s".  Its only when you look back and see 1989 fashions in the early 90s today and you see that New Kids and Hammer were still on the charts that you think "Ohmygod, eaauuu, how 80s.  That's so gay".  The fashions of 1988 and '89 are indeed 80s, but it just wasn't thought of as 80s 80s to the people that lived through the real 1980s.  Ronald Reagan wasn't president anymore and the 1st President Bush and Vice President Dan Quayle were seen as much more modern and new.  It's only through our eyes today that we now see his term as more of an extension of the Reagan presidency that wasn't very new or modern at all.  He didn't do a whole lot different from Reagan.  

Dressing 80s was thought of as more the 1981-'86 look (centering right around 1984) , you know---leg warmers, IZOD shirts, Members Only Jackets, shoes without socks, etc, etc.  Listening to something like Duran Duran or Asia while you watch Miami Vice.  If you asked someone in 1990 how would they dress 80s that's probably what they would say, they would be amazed that you in 00s actually think they are looking pretty damn 80s.  But ofcourse you're thinking of the late 80s.  The problem with 1990 is that it doesn't look like 1994 or 1996.  But how could it?  I do agree that 1990 was a cheesy year and it can all be summed up by the trio of Vanilla Ice, Milli Vanilli and M.C. Hammer.  Vanilla Ice was seen as stupid by kids even in 1990, it was the press that gave him a lot of attention because he was the first big White rapper.  Wilson Phillips had their great album that year though. 



I agree. Megatron you're one of the best decadeologists :)

1990 and 1991 are '80s in the sense they they're tied to 1988 and 1989, and are unlike 1992 and 1996.  They're '90s, but they're a part of the '90s that's more like the '80s than the rest of the '90s.

At the time, hardly anyone in 1990 considered it to be the 80s anymore.  Not like how folks in 2000 were very conscious of the time being still late 90ish. 

I was in 9th and 10th grade at the time, so I was clearly old enough to grasp the world.  I'm trying to think back to 1990, to remember the feel of the year and how it was.  I suppose it was like how 1980 was with the 70s.  1990 was more of an 80s year where it wasn't cool to be 80s or act 80s at all.  It was not cool at all to use any type of 80s slang like "radical" or "fer sure".  Not many people under 25 dared to wear any clothing that was from before 1988, or maybey even before 1989.  The times were rapidly changing, but in more subtle ways that are not as obvious to those of you were too young or just being born back then.  TV shows like Growing Pains and Cosby Show were still on the air, but they were fading fast.  The Bill & Ted sequel came out in 1991, and I thought it was actually a better movie then the original one that came out in 1988, but it bombed at the box office.  Their time had passed.

Mind you, people at that time didn't really consider the fashions of say late 1988 and 1989 to be stereotypical "80s".  Its only when you look back and see 1989 fashions in the early 90s today and you see that New Kids and Hammer were still on the charts that you think "Ohmygod, eaauuu, how 80s.  That's so gay".  The fashions of 1988 and '89 are indeed 80s, but it just wasn't thought of as 80s 80s to the people that lived through the real 1980s.  Ronald Reagan wasn't president anymore and the 1st President Bush and Vice President Dan Quayle were seen as much more modern and new.  It's only through our eyes today that we now see his term as more of an extension of the Reagan presidency that wasn't very new or modern at all.  He didn't do a whole lot different from Reagan. 

Dressing 80s was thought of as more the 1981-'86 look (centering right around 1984) , you know---leg warmers, IZOD shirts, Members Only Jackets, shoes without socks, etc, etc.  Listening to something like Duran Duran or Asia while you watch Miami Vice.  If you asked someone in 1990 how would they dress 80s that's probably what they would say, they would be amazed that you in 00s actually think they are looking pretty damn 80s.  But ofcourse you're thinking of the late 80s.  The problem with 1990 is that it doesn't look like 1994 or 1996.  But how could it?  I do agree that 1990 was a cheesy year and it can all be summed up by the trio of Vanilla Ice, Milli Vanilli and M.C. Hammer.  Vanilla Ice was seen as stupid by kids even in 1990, it was the press that gave him a lot of attention because he was the first big White rapper.  Wilson Phillips had their great album that year though.



Really, the 1984 look is still what can be pinpointed exactly to the '80s, or in a nostalgia sense, the c. 2005 period (the return of IZOD shirts, sockless feet, leg warmers, etc.) As for TV, 1989-1991 was a transitional period between the 1988ish Full House, Growing Pains, Cosby Show TGIF period and up and coming new shows like Roseanne, Seinfeld, Married...with Children, Law and Order. So I'm guessing the way Vanilla Ice is seen was similar to the way Limp Bizkit was seen in 1999 in that very few people actually liked him.

Really, the 1984 look is still what can be pinpointed exactly to the '80s, or in a nostalgia sense, the c. 2005 period (the return of IZOD shirts, sockless feet, leg warmers, etc.) As for TV, 1989-1991 was a transitional period between the 1988ish Full House, Growing Pains, Cosby Show TGIF period and up and coming new shows like Roseanne, Seinfeld, Married...with Children, Law and Order. So I'm guessing the way Vanilla Ice is seen was similar to the way Limp Bizkit was seen in 1999 in that very few people actually liked him.


1994 had it's own look. TV serials like the Cosby Show, Roseanne, M.w.C were either in their dying days, or had 'matured' to become part of the fabric of the cultural product of the times. It was a time wedged between the late 80s dinosaur, and a new, hip culture. Vanilla Ice/Milli Vanilli was typical of really commercial, gimmicky plastic acts common to both the early and late 90s.

1994 had it's own look. TV serials like the Cosby Show, Roseanne, M.w.C were either in their dying days, or had 'matured' to become part of the fabric of the cultural product of the times. It was a time wedged between the late 80s dinosaur, and a new, hip culture. Vanilla Ice/Milli Vanilli was typical of really commercial, gimmicky plastic acts common to both the early and late 90s.


You didn't mean to say 1994, did you? Roseanne peaked in popularity around 1993, actually.

You didn't mean to say 1994, did you? Roseanne peaked in popularity around 1993, actually.


Well, the 1993-94 era in general, which was a really unique time in 90s history. It was probably the very peak of the 'Gangsta Rap' era, just after movies like 'Boyz in the Hood', and artists like Easy E, Dr. Dre, Method Man, Ice T were making their indelible mark on music, and turning the compass for musical styles to follow throughout the 90s. The early 90s seemed characterised by Racial tension, unrest; Rodney King/the Watts Riots, the peak of South Central L.A. Gangsta Culture, the Kripps.etc.

I agree. Megatron you're one of the best decadeologists :)

1990 and 1991 are '80s in the sense they they're tied to 1988 and 1989, and are unlike 1992 and 1996.  They're '90s, but they're a part of the '90s that's more like the '80s than the rest of the '90s.


Why thank you Darko.  I don't intend to be one, but I figured I would offer my thoughts on the subject, especially since I was around 14-15 in 1990.  I can tell you what people felt and generally thought back then.  I know it wasn't cool to act 80s in 1990, but people still wore neon and 1989ish fashions.  I think you can look at 1990 as either the epilogue of the 80s, or the early stage of the 90s and both would be sorta correct.  Nothing really drove 1990, not the 80s, not enough of the 90s.  It was just kinda there to be there.  My opinion would be that 1990 is the embryonic stage of the 90s, because there was a different vibe in the air--but it hadn't developed yet. 

Why thank you Darko.  I don't intend to be one, but I figured I would offer my thoughts on the subject, especially since I was around 14-15 in 1990.  I can tell you what people felt and generally thought back then.  I know it wasn't cool to act 80s in 1990, but people still wore neon and 1989ish fashions.   I think you can look at 1990 as either the epilogue of the 80s, or the early stage of the 90s and both would be sorta correct.   Nothing really drove 1990, not the 80s, not enough of the 90s.  It was just kinda there to be there.  My opinion would be that 1990 is the embryonic stage of the 90s, because there was a different vibe in the air--but it hadn't developed yet.   




You mean, someone would be slightly more likely to say "You go girl" than "Totally radical", but they probably wouldn't say either?

I honestly can't remember if "you go girl" was popular in 1990.  What I am saying is that the 80s were over, but the asthetic of the late 80s was still around enough.  I do remember in the fall of 1990 (and I emphasize FALL of 1990),  kids sported a look that I'm not sure what to call.  Perhaps pre-grunge or something.  Hiking boots, more darkened earth tones in the shirts and jackets, but still perhaps tight acid washed jeans from 1988/1989.  And perhaps still white high top sneakers, though that was going out of style.  It was an amalagam of what had occured recently and what had not yet developed but was on the horizon.  Skateboarding was the it thing in 80s, especially the late 80s, but was no longer cool at all in 1990.  Skateboarding went underground until at least 1996, if not the late 90s.     

Pure 80s lingo was not cool, but there were obvious late 80s fashions still around.  Some really bad Vanilla Ice type fashions too.  The reason 1990 may look more cheesy then 1985 or 1987 is because nothing in pop culture was really driving 1990, you just had some neon and left over styles from 1989 around, with this really vague grungy beginning.  At least with the real 80s there was something cool about it.  Hammer crossed over to White audiences in a way that Public Enemy and NWA did not, but a lot of his goofy poppy dance rap became dated by 1991.  It was a transitional year, more then any othe early 90s year.  The economy was also on the brink of a recession and some people may have felt it as early as 1990.

I honestly can't remember if "you go girl" was popular in 1990.  What I am saying is that the 80s were over, but the asthetic of the late 80s was still around enough.  I do remember in the fall of 1990 (and I emphasize FALL of 1990),  kids sported a look that I'm not sure what to call.  Perhaps pre-grunge or something.  Hiking boots, more darkened earth tones in the shirts and jackets, but still perhaps tight acid washed jeans from 1988/1989.  And perhaps still white high top sneakers, though that was going out of style.  It was an amalagam of what had occured recently and what had not yet developed but was on the horizon.  Skateboarding was the it thing in 80s, especially the late 80s, but was no longer cool at all in 1990.  Skateboarding went underground until at least 1996, if not the late 90s.     

Pure 80s lingo was not cool, but there were obvious late 80s fashions still around.  Some really bad Vanilla Ice type fashions too.  The reason 1990 may look more cheesy then 1985 or 1987 is because nothing in pop culture was really driving 1990, you just had some neon and left over styles from 1989 around, with this really vague grungy beginning.  At least with the real 80s there was something cool about it.  Hammer crossed over to White audiences in a way that Public Enemy and NWA did not, but a lot of his goofy poppy dance rap became dated by 1991.  It was a transitional year, more then any othe early 90s year.  The economy was also on the brink of a recession and some people may have felt it as early as 1990.


You'd have to agree that early 1990 was the same as late 1989, since they're the same school year.

I honestly can't remember if "you go girl" was popular in 1990.  What I am saying is that the 80s were over, but the asthetic of the late 80s was still around enough.  I do remember in the fall of 1990 (and I emphasize FALL of 1990),  kids sported a look that I'm not sure what to call.  Perhaps pre-grunge or something.  Hiking boots, more darkened earth tones in the shirts and jackets, but still perhaps tight acid washed jeans from 1988/1989.  And perhaps still white high top sneakers, though that was going out of style.  It was an amalagam of what had occured recently and what had not yet developed but was on the horizon.  Skateboarding was the it thing in 80s, especially the late 80s, but was no longer cool at all in 1990.  Skateboarding went underground until at least 1996, if not the late 90s.   

Pure 80s lingo was not cool, but there were obvious late 80s fashions still around.  Some really bad Vanilla Ice type fashions too.  The reason 1990 may look more cheesy then 1985 or 1987 is because nothing in pop culture was really driving 1990, you just had some neon and left over styles from 1989 around, with this really vague grungy beginning.  At least with the real 80s there was something cool about it.  Hammer crossed over to White audiences in a way that Public Enemy and NWA did not, but a lot of his goofy poppy dance rap became dated by 1991.  It was a transitional year, more then any othe early 90s year.  The economy was also on the brink of a recession and some people may have felt it as early as 1990.


This weird transitional fashion look you mention is something that you can see watching old episodes of Roseanne from the first or second seasons...darkened earth tones and puffy jackets with some neon colors in stuff like shorts (though that was around as late as early 1994, probably), the tight acid-washed jeans, and longer hair, but hair that still had product in it. What was late '80s fashion like?

You mean, someone would be slightly more likely to say "You go girl" than "Totally radical", but they probably wouldn't say either?


Saying 'you go girl' was probably more 90s than 80s  ;D. Think 'Clueless', Disney Channel teen dramas.etc.