Simply put I think '86/87 is when music started getting that urban sound, which would lead to full blown hip hop and just 90s style. Anything before that just seems more...old fashioned or something (along with the older styled songs that came later, like Rick Astley or Go West). Probably because it was very clean cut, sunny and lacked any rap elements whatsoever. Even the black artists like MJ, Prince, Whitney and Lionel Richie were making very squeaky clean, suburban music that fit with what white music sounded like. Does anyone else think it wasn't quite as magic afterwards for that very reason?

I love alot of 90s music too, but that's the same deal with the softer or very mainstream stuff. I always hated rap and even those rhythmic dance songs like "Whoop There it is". Although urban BALLADS were awesome, like from All For One, TLC or Jon Secada.

My attitude depends on the way I look at it too. For instance "U Can't Touch This" is pretty awesome if I think of it as a 90s song (seems like a dancy early rap song that's really catchy if I'm comparing it against the thuggish or more urban stuff that came later). But if I think of it as an 80s song I perceive it as being sucky because I'm invariably comparing it against new wave, Thriller, Huey Lewis and that more suburban stuff that was out a few years earlier!

For those who strayed away from the mainstream, that urban sound was around long before 86/87.  It just wasn't well perceived in the charts in North America (mainly the States) until the mid-late 80s.

The early 80s saw artists like Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow and the World Famous Supreme Team urbanizing the music scene; Electro, Hip-Hop and Breakdance, it was a good time.  Hip-Hop towards the late 80s was good, but it was a big decline as rap music was starting to dominate.  And though some of it was great, when much of it slowly evolved into gangsta rap in the 90s, that was not a good time.

  You're right, rap took on a more sinister, socially conscious, and honest aspect 'round about that time.  Not necessarily a bad thing, it just evolved for any number of reasons.  And scared the crap out of white-bread suburbanites.  I don't know how much more of Parents Just Don't Understand and Cinderfella I could've endured before I chucked my radio into the deep, blue sea...

I prefer that new wave sound between 1979 and 1983.

I prefer that new wave sound between 1979 and 1983.

I'm with ya, Bumble

Most of my favorite songs came from the early 80s. Not to discount the late 80s because Run DMC/Aerosmith's Walk This Way is the jam!

But Michael Jackson's Thriller dropped in late 1982...and it's kind of a testament to the sound of the time.

But I like all the music from like new wave in 1981 to New Jack Swing in 1989. If I can dance to it, it's good.  :)

Well I quite like hip-hop though I think around 1983 is the best music of the 80s. Late 80s/early 90s music I think was super corny but that's the charm of it I suppose. Quality wise though early 80s win.

I prefer that new wave sound between 1979 and 1983.


Ditto.

Although I do listen to a little hip-hop, 80s music was very sweet. I enjoyed New Wave and Punk Rock. My fave New Wave 80s artists are XTC, The Cure, Ramones, Talking Heads, etc. My fave British pop bands consist of Pet Shop Boys, Level 42, and ABC. All in all, I do miss 80s music.

Simply put I think '86/87 is when music started getting that urban sound, which would lead to full blown hip hop and just 90s style. Anything before that just seems more...old fashioned or something (along with the older styled songs that came later, like Rick Astley or Go West). Probably because it was very clean cut, sunny and lacked any rap elements whatsoever. Even the black artists like MJ, Prince, Whitney and Lionel Richie were making very squeaky clean, suburban music that fit with what white music sounded like. Does anyone else think it wasn't quite as magic afterwards for that very reason?

I love alot of 90s music too, but that's the same deal with the softer or very mainstream stuff. I always hated rap and even those rhythmic dance songs like "Whoop There it is". Although urban BALLADS were awesome, like from All For One, TLC or Jon Secada.

In my opinion the 80's was long over before mainstream hip-hop started to have any real influence on things, so I think that transition occured during the 90's.  What killed the 80's as a musical decade in the UK was the explosion of 'Stock Aiken and Waterman' pre-produced pop that had everyone yearning for a fresh start (hence the explosion of grunge, the 'Madchester' hippy 'Happy Mondays' movement and hip hop and rap in the early 90's.  But I can't say that I viewed early 90's artists like Snap! or Clock (whoomph!) as hardcore rap/hip-hop because, in my opinion that was still fairly clean and was still quite poppy and danceable.

So I agree that music was better prior to 1986, but it wasn't HipHop and Rap that killed it - the real hardcore stuff wasn't commercially widespread until circa 1994/95 IMHO.

Another genre that appeared around 1986 was called New Jack Swing. Yes, that is often the "urban" sound that you were talking about that typifies late '80s/early '90s R&B music. Stuff like New Edition and its members, Janet Jackson, solo Jody Watley, even Peter Gabriel's "Big Time" has a bit of that feel. But some people like New Jack Swing. But Hair Metal was another genre that took off around 1986, heralded by Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet. The pop ballads that had been around through the '80s up to that point trended a more "fuller, high-production" with more instrumentation thanks to the rise of digital synthesizers such as the Yamaha DX7, they would start to tone down around 1990/91. However, there were more female artists having big hits around this time and should also be noted. Rap didn't seriously become a regular top 40 force until 1989 (and especially not super prevalent until 1992 or so). Except for perhaps New Jack Swing, it was simply just a different type of 80s that surfaced around this time, with examples outside of music also presence (family sitcoms on TV, NES/Sega Master System/Atari 7800 instead of Atari 2600/Colecovision/Interllivision).

Personally, I like '80s music pretty evenly, but with an ever so slight edge to pre-'86 stuff. However, the charts were more competitive from 1986-89 than earlier in the '80s. In 1982 for instance, a hit just missing the top 10 (#11) would be around the 75th biggest hit of that year. However, in a year like 1988, that same position (#11) would only have been around the 120th biggest hit of the year; in other words, the charts were actually more competitive, which means more hits could be rotated on Top 40 radio and have more choice. Unfortuantely, the arrival of SoundScan (quite coincidentally, right after Nirvana's Nevermind) caused more high charting hits to stay on the charts for longer periods of time, thus putting a strain on that format.

I grew up in a house where the radio was on 24/7, but I didn't get my own personal taste in music until that year, 1986, and i didn't independently start listening to the radio until 1987, so more of the 80's music on my ipod is from 1986+ but I really like all 80's music regardless if there was any hip hop in it. But I was pretty young in the 80's, so I definitely see why someone older than me would enjoy pre-hip-hop 80's music.

Before 1986 was better. But music was still good in the 90's.

I was thinking about this 2 weeks ago how music from 1983-1987 maybe even till 1988 sounded more poppy or mainstream than the music that was made after. I think it was like second of 1987 that music changed because a group like "Kool And The Gang" was still big in the 1st part of 1987  but not the second part of 1987 I think. Even a group like "The Whispers" who came back in 1987 with their hit "Rock Steady" that song had a New Jack Swing vibe to it as well as well as the 1983-1986 sound with the casio keyboards.

I was thinking about this too like a week ago remember how big Gloria Estefan/Miami Sound Machine were from 1985-till maybe 1989 her songs were just hits all the time for the time period.

It sounds like white people have a tendency to like  mainstream music from 1980-mid 1985 and black people liked the music from late 1985 to 1989 like myself.  I grew up in the 80s from 3 years old to 12 years old, and as a child/tween I noticed all the changes of mainstream music.  To tell you the truth, the only early 80s music that I liked were more like Debarge, Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Deniece Williams, Pointer Sisters, Prince, Rick James, Patti Labelle, Stephanie Mills,  and what have you.  The rest suck.  I like music from the latter half of the 80s better (1985-1989) because it's more urban sounding, and it catered more to black people.  I LOVE IT!  Me being an African-American, I'm glad that late 1985/1986/1987 were the years when music was changing to more black sound.  I can't relate to that bubblegum sheesh.  I mean, I love some of it, but I would rather prefer music from the latter half of the 80s (late 1985-1989).  The reason why is because I'm black, and I want to listen to something that I can relate to, and secondly, that's when I enter my tween years, and that's when I started going to middle school in the late 80s.  I'm sorry, but I LOVE new jack swing.  I love that urban gritty sound of the latter part of the 80s.  If I have my pickings.  1985-1989 wins for me.

I prefer that new wave sound between 1979 and 1983.


In retrospect, I agree.  I'd set the dates a little broader for New Wave's halcyon period: 1977--1984.  Two great New Wave acts, Talking Heads and Elvis Costello put out their best material in those years, for instance.  Those years also encompassed the best time for acts such as diverse as The B-52s, Blondie, Nina Hagen, A Flock of Seagulls, Midnight Oil, The Fixx, Television, The Ramones, Joy Division/New Order, Sex Pistols, Thompson Twins, Tom Tom Club, The Clash, Richard Hell, Fad Gadget, Devo, Human League/Heaven 17, Aztec Camera, Yazoo, Pere Ubu/David Thomas/Home & Garden, Care/Ian Broudie, Duran Duran, Tin Tin, The The, The Police, Eurythmics, Culture Club, Josef K, Berlin, The Undertones, X-Ray Specs/Essential Logic, Men Without Hats, Sex Pistols, Ultravox/John Foxx, Clock DVA, Cabaret Voltaire, Einsturzende Neubauten, Japan, Throbbing Gristle, Lydia Lunch, Foetus, Dead Kennedys, Blancmange, and many, many others in the New Wave/Punk/Industrial genres I liked at various points in the '80s.

The sea change on the Top 40 pop charts occurred abruptly in the spring of '84.  The second British Invasion of '82-'83 was over, but it had nothing to do with the influence of hip-hop.  I liked early rap because it had a socially active message.  Run-DMC was the first rap group to break REALLY big with white kids in the suburbs.  They carried some social conscience but also placed a bigger emphasis on social status-seeking through sartorial choices (eg. big gold chains and "My Adidas") and macho braggadocio ("I'm DMC, I can draw/and now we got the knack, to attract/our rhyme's an aphrodisiac.")  Of course, this was nothing new in Black music, but the designer sneakers and get-some-pussy side of it didn't interest me.  I preferred Public Enemy to LL Cool J. 

After '84 I was less interested in top 40 and more interested in what they were calling "alternative."  Even then, I was more interested in the experimental side of alternative (Depeche Mode, Einsturzende Neubauten) than the rockin' side of alternative (R.E.M., The Replacements).  Then what killed "alternative" in the late '80s/early '90s were the twin iniquities of the Seattle Grunge sound (Green River, Nirvana) and the Manchester "Madchester" sound (Happy Mondays, Inspiral Carpets).

As for the original posters comments on "squeak clean," Prince was never squeaky clean.  Squeaky sometimes, but not clean!
:P

It sounds like white people have a tendency to like  mainstream music from 1980-mid 1985 and black people liked the music from late 1985 to 1989 like myself.  I grew up in the 80s from 3 years old to 12 years old, and as a child/tween I noticed all the changes of mainstream music.  To tell you the truth, the only early 80s music that I liked were more like Debarge, Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Deniece Williams, Pointer Sisters, Prince, Rick James, Patti Labelle, Stephanie Mills,  and what have you.  The rest suck.  I like music from the latter half of the 80s better (1985-1989) because it's more urban sounding, and it catered more to black people.  I LOVE IT!  Me being an African-American, I'm glad that late 1985/1986/1987 were the years when music was changing to more black sound.  I can't relate to that bubblegum sheesh.  I mean, I love some of it, but I would rather prefer music from the latter half of the 80s (late 1985-1989).  The reason why is because I'm black, and I want to listen to something that I can relate to, and secondly, that's when I enter my tween years, and that's when I started going to middle school in the late 80s.  I'm sorry, but I LOVE new jack swing.  I love that urban gritty sound of the latter part of the 80s.  If I have my pickings.  1985-1989 wins for me.


I loved all the bands and artists you listed, they were all great and that to me was the best 'black sound', along with the likes of Stevie, Luther Vandross, George Benson and Alexander O'Neal.  80's greats, all of them.  Today however, there seems to be a general perception that up until the explosion of urban rap/hip-hop black music hadn't really 'arrived', which I dont think is correct at all.

In retrospect, I agree.  I'd set the dates a little broader for New Wave's halcyon period: 1977--1984.


The sea change on the Top 40 pop charts occurred abruptly in the spring of '84.  The second British Invasion of '82-'83 was over, but it had nothing to do with the influence of hip-hop.


After '84 I was less interested in top 40 and more interested in what they were calling "alternative."

Agreed on all three points.  All one needs to do is look at the year-end countdowns of KROQ in the 1980s to see the shift.  Only a relative handful of the influential artists from the first half of the decade still appear in 1989 and 1990, and most of those are groups like Depeche Mode which evolved as the aforementioned British Invasion ended.

Well put, sir.

Agreed on all three points.  All one needs to do is look at the year-end countdowns of KROQ in the 1980s to see the shift.  Only a relative handful of the influential artists from the first half of the decade still appear in 1989 and 1990, and most of those are groups like Depeche Mode which evolved as the aforementioned British Invasion ended.

Well put, sir.


Depeche Mode and New Order particularly won increasing success in the U.S. because they evolved.  The highest-charting New Order album in the U.S. was actually "Republic," which hit #11 on the Billboard Album charts.  "Regret" was the highest-charting single, which hit #28 on U.S. Hot 100 in 1990.  However, my favorite New Order album for overall cohesiveness is still "Low-Life" (1985), while "Blue Monday" (1983) is probably their finest single.  "Blue Monday" didn't even chart in the U.S. Hot 100, but it did go to #5 on the U.S. dance charts.  New Order had the endorsement of Quincy Jones and influenced U.S. dance music, not the other way around.

Depeche Mode's most successful U.S. album was "Violator" (1990).  "Songs of Faith and Devotion" (1993) did achieve the #1 Billboard spot, while "Violator" only reached #7, however, "Violator" went on to sell 11 million units, while SOFAD barely sold 1.5 million.  Depeche Mode had several UK top 20 hits in four years before reaching #13 in the U.S. with "People Are People."  While Violator's "Enjoy The Silence" went to U.S Hot 100 #8 position, and "Personal Jesus" only to #28, "Personal Jesus" has had more staying power.  "Personal Jesus" mixed their familiar sounds with a heavier blues riff influence, which turned out to get more critical respect than "Enjoy The Silence," which sounded like it could have come out five years earlier.  I was hoping Depeche Mode would remain purely electronic in their recordings, but I had to admit they used the guitar to great effect on "Personal Jesus," which was released in 1989.  That song worked so well because DM was still secure enough to do their own thing instead of imitating trends.  If Depeche Mode had done an MC Hammer rip-off in 1990, it would have been crap...which is what SOFAD was because David Gahan tried to push DM as a "grunge" band, which it was not and could never be. 

However, by the time I saw Depeche Mode on the 1986 "Black Celebration" tour, they were already huge stars in the U.S., even though a lot of people were asked me "De-peechie Mode"?  Who are they?" when I walked around with my concert t-shirt.  For me, the "Black Celebration" album and tour was DM's finest hour and truly defined their legacy.  However, "Blasphemous Rumours" (1984) is still their best single. 

Like Kraftwerk before them, New Order and Depeche Mode changed the face of electronic pop music.  Like concurrent rap and hip-hop artists, they incorporated African-American musical influences, such as blues, soul, rock 'n' roll, and disco into their sounds, but neither DM nor New Order followed the hip-hop trends of the '80s. 

Well said old boy.  Top posting!  :)

By the time of 1987's 'Music For The Masses', the US had a huge appetite for all things Mode, which was proven by the sell out at Pasadena in 1988 for the classic '101' concert.

Violator was actually an 80's album, as most of the songs were written in the 80's and 'Personal Jesus' was released in the UK during 1989 prior to the 'Violator' release.  

As good as the tracks 'Personal Jesus' and 'Enjoy The Silence' are, for me the standout tracks from Violator were the opening and ending tracks;  'World In My Eyes' and 'Clean' represent what Mode are all about.

'Violator' is a sheer masterpiece of an album.  Scary to think it celebrates it's 20th anniversary this year..... :o

The early 80s were a magical time because it seemed like music was entering uncharted territory. Bands like OMD, Human League, Adam and the Ants, ABC, Thompson Twins, Culture Club were all doing their own thing, yet seemed to inexplicable come together in this zeitgeist. I think why hip-hop didn't come until the late 80s was because disco took a long time to shake off.

The S/A/W's Hit Factory caused a massive change in the way music was produced, coincidentally enough they got in their stride around 1985 for good or bad. I loved their catchy music but I can understand it when someone hates it because it really was conveyor belt music. Mike Stock from S/A/W wrote 'I should be so lucky' for Kylie Minogue in 40 minutes and the song was recorded in less than an hour!

The early 80s were a magical time because it seemed like music was entering uncharted territory. Bands like OMD, Human League, Adam and the Ants, ABC, Thompson Twins, Culture Club were all doing their own thing, yet seemed to inexplicable come together in this zeitgeist. I think why hip-hop didn't come until the late 80s was because disco took a long time to shake off.

The S/A/W's Hit Factory caused a massive change in the way music was produced, coincidentally enough they got in their stride around 1985 for good or bad. I loved their catchy music but I can understand it when someone hates it because it really was conveyor belt music. Mike Stock from S/A/W wrote 'I should be so lucky' for Kylie Minogue in 40 minutes and the song was recorded in less than an hour!


My favorite example of S/A/W (Stock Aitken Waterman sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUatnbaNfEo&feature=related

Or maybe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HAyXvOgE0Y

"Relax" is one of my guilty pleasures!
(The song, that is, not the subject of the song)

My favorite example of S/A/W (Stock Aitken Waterman sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUatnbaNfEo&feature=related

Or maybe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HAyXvOgE0Y

"Relax" is one of my guilty pleasures!
(The song, that is, not the subject of the song)


Who would have thunk Maxwell Smart would like 'You spin me around...'.  :o ;)

Dead or Alive was a S/A/W hit but not sure whether you think Relax is, though you can be forgiven for thinking that. Trevor Horn (former member of the Buggles) signed the group up. I believe he had a better S/A/W sound than S/A/W did.  ;D

Who would have thunk Maxwell Smart would like 'You spin me around...'.  :o ;)

Dead or Alive was a S/A/W hit but not sure whether you think Relax is, though you can be forgiven for thinking that. Trevor Horn (former member of the Buggles) signed the group up. I believe he had a better S/A/W sound than S/A/W did.  ;D


I like the hypnotic rhythm of that kind of dance pop.  I have to think, as far as the lyrics go, they were trying to be inane with "You Spin Me Round." 

I remember Trevor Horn being interviewed about "Relax."  I conflated S/A/W with what's known as the Hi-NRG sound, of which the S/A/W team and Trevor Horn were both masters. 

I actually thought "Relax" was creepy at the time it came out, which was a bit later here in the U.S. than in the U.K.  It was really popular here starting in the spring of '85.  I remember the kids in school who made fun of the synth-pop music I liked, but thought "Relax" was a cool song because they heard it was about sex.  However, I was disgusted because they they were a bunch of suburban homophobes who didn't understand what kind of sex it was REALLY about.  They seemed to like the song because it sounded macho and aggressive -- which it did -- but those kids didn't understand the homoerotic context.  Seriously, that year there were American kids walking around wearing t-shirts with the caption, "Frankie say Relax."  Oh, your dad's got one too?  Joke's on you guys.  That songs about taking it in the azz, and you don't know it.  God you're stupid!  That was my irascible 16-year-old attitude at the time.
::)

I remember the kids in school who made fun of the synth-pop music I liked, but thought "Relax" was a cool song because they heard it was about sex.  However, I was disgusted because they they were a bunch of suburban homophobes who didn't understand what kind of sex it was REALLY about.


Lulz!

In fairness to them, the song was repurposed for quite heterosexual purposes in the 1984 cheezfest horror/mystery flick known as Body Double.  (I remember nothing else about the movie except that sequence.  It took the Wikipedia to remind me about the drill/auger bit scene.  Make your own joke :)

In the '80s we listened to EVERYTHING, R&B, pop, New Wave, everything else ect. I wouldn't say it was better, probably just different.

Yeah I think except for Heavy Metal, the music before 1985 was much more interesting and diverse--So electronic, and experimental. After '86 it gets boring, except for music in the rock genre.

I experienced the 80's music in the early-to-mid 00's on VH1's So 80s so i may not be right, but IMO the early 80's music was better and less produced. It was like a fresh air after the disco crazy of the 70's (I like both disco and new wave BTW, although new wave was about back-lashing disco.) In 1986-1989 music was overproduced. Hint: Stock Aitken and Waterman for Europe, and heavy metal and Debbie Gibson/Tiffany and the likes in the 80's. Late 80's music can easily be annoying, that's why I prefer the early 80's music. However, there are a few songs from 86-89 that I like like this camp classic: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1iz2c_kylie-minogue-i-should-be-so-lucky_people Something in the song itself and the video reminds me of the early 80's for some reason. I generally find most S.A.W. songs silly and annoying but I like this one and a few others.

This reminded me of the fact that my local cable TV company has VH1 excluded from its pack of channels for some reason, so I haven't watched it since 2005! It's time for me to have a good conversation with them. Maybe that's the reason I don't like TV since 2005 - I mainly watched VH1 in those days (2002-2005). I want my VH1 back. :)

Yeah I think except for Heavy Metal, the music before 1985 was much more interesting and diverse


American Metal stagnated after 1985 with the exception of a few interesting bands such as Metallica and Anthrax, but it blossomed in Europe and continues to do so.