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Subject: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/17/17 at 8:40 pm

I know, this may be decadeology a bit, but is Duran Duran's "Ordinary World", released 1992 and charted in 1993, the final song done in an "80s style" that was successful on the charts?

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Of course, 90s-style music had overtaken 80s-style music by 95% at this point, but this could be considered 80s music's "last breath".

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Mr Steamer on 04/17/17 at 8:47 pm

I'd say "I Swear" from 1994 was the last.

Also, I'd say the very last 90's song was "Where is the Love" by Black Eyed Peas in 2003.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/17/17 at 8:50 pm

On a side-note, I like the wistful feel of the song and the music video. It's like they were subconsciously saying farewell to 80s-style music, before it 100% died out.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 04/17/17 at 9:00 pm

In all honesty, not only is "Ordinary World" not entirely 80s-style, there were plenty of other popular songs that followed it that didn't sound tremendously different or at least sounded no less 80s than it did. Even though it has a heavily gated snare drum, its heavy orchestral backup and reliance on acoustic guitars make it sonically similar to plenty of mid-90s adult contemporary/pop rock ballads. For example...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABSXJiYQFuI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gEkwhdXUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI8lrvKLzg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxRyNvTPr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGrLb6W5YOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY2sBDPgOXU


If you want my opinion, the last song to make a decent impact on the charts that sounds full-on 80s would be Michael Bolton's "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love." It was from Bolton's 1993 album The One Thing but became a moderate airplay hit in mid-1994. Not only does it have aggressive, booming production, its melodic composition and especially the use of harmonization in the bridge and chorus make it sound like something that would've been completely at home in 1987, like Def Leppard got Bolton to sing lead on one of the outtakes for Hysteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwzvVtTGx8


I'd say "I Swear" from 1994 was the last.


Not even close. Soft, mature love ballads sung by male vocal groups were a definitive trend of the 1990s.

Also, I'd say the very last 90's song was "Where is the Love" by Black Eyed Peas in 2003.


Again, not at all. The Black Eyed Peas were practically the epitome of 2000s pop.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: 80sfan on 04/17/17 at 9:04 pm

I don't know.  :P

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: robby76 on 04/18/17 at 8:34 am

Ordinary World was a very 90s song. Kinda like Tasmin Archer's "Sleeping Satellite". Dark and kinda grungy.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Tyrannosaurus Rex on 04/18/17 at 10:42 am

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I think this was the absolute last song to sound 80's.

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Here are some of Cinderella's works from 1994.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: nintieskid999 on 04/18/17 at 2:28 pm

I think this was the last 80s song

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Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/18/17 at 2:35 pm

This was the last '80s song ;) ;D
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Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/18/17 at 2:44 pm


This was the last '80s song ;) ;D
iqu132vTl5Y

I remember Donnie Darko saying this song was one of the examples of 80s holdovers "lasting as late as 1994", but I just don't see it. This song is pure 90s, nothing 80s about it in the slightest.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/18/17 at 2:46 pm


I remember Donnie Darko saying this song was one of the examples of 80s holdovers "lasting as late as 1994", but I just don't see it. This song is pure 90s, nothing 80s about it in the slightest.

I know...I put it as a joke ;D ;D.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Howard on 04/18/17 at 3:05 pm

Wouldn't the last 80's song be in 1989? ???

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: dbutler69 on 04/19/17 at 2:43 pm

I always liked Come Undone a lot more than Ordinary World.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 04/19/17 at 2:44 pm


Wouldn't the last 80's song be in 1989? ???

Well... Max was basically saying the last song to have that 80s sound and feel.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Howard on 04/19/17 at 4:55 pm


Well... Max was basically saying the last song to have that 80s sound and feel.


Then I would have to say "The King Of Wishful Thinking" By Go West.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 04/23/17 at 10:42 am

The last 90's sounding song I can think of is Weezer's Beverly Hills.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/24/17 at 10:10 pm


I'd say "I Swear" from 1994 was the last.

Also, I'd say the very last 90's song was "Where is the Love" by Black Eyed Peas in 2003.

Interesting. What would say is the last 70s-sounding song, or the last 60s-sounding song?

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 04/24/17 at 10:42 pm


Interesting. What would say is the last 70s-sounding song, or the last 60s-sounding song?


Last 60's sounding song would be something like Saturday Night by The Bay City Rollers.

70's might be Metal Health by Quiet Riot.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/24/17 at 10:54 pm


Last 60's sounding song would be something like Saturday Night by The Bay City Rollers.

I listened to that song just now and yeah you're right. The vocal arrangements are very 60s-ish. Hard to believe it came out in 1974!

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 04/24/17 at 10:59 pm

It hit #1 on the Billboard hot 100 in 1976, too. :P

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Zelek3 on 04/24/17 at 10:59 pm

Dang, that's even farther removed from the 60s.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 04/24/17 at 11:38 pm

Here's my perspective, going only by songs unambiguously of a particular decade's traditional style, as opposed to those more on the cusp; keep in mind they cannot be outliers, meaning "Uptown Funk" can't be the last early 80s song, for example:

Last "50s" Song: "Unchained Melody" / The Righteous Brothers (1965)
Last "60s" Song: "Sweet Understanding" / Four Tops (1973)
Last "70s" Song: "Islands in the Stream" / Dolly Parton & Kenny Rogers (1983)
Last "80s" Song: "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love" / Michael Bolton (1993, popular in 1994)
Last "90s" Song: "Can't Fight the Moonlight" / LeAnn Rimes (2000, popular in America in early 2002)
Last "2000s" Song: "September" / Daughtry (2009, popular in 2010)

On the flip side...

First "60s" Song: "Lemon Tree" / Peter, Paul & Mary (1962)
First "70s" Song: "Good Times Bad Times" / Led Zeppelin (1969)
First "80s" Song: "Heart of Glass" / Blondie (1978)
First "90s" Song: "Back to Life" / Soul II Soul (1989)
First "2000s" Song: "If Your Girl Only Knew" / Aaliyah (1996)
First "2010s" Song: "Just Dance" / Lady Gaga (2008)

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Howard on 04/25/17 at 6:15 am


Last 60's sounding song would be something like Saturday Night by The Bay City Rollers.

70's might be Metal Health by Quiet Riot.


That's quite interesting. :o

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Mr Steamer on 04/25/17 at 1:17 pm


Here's my perspective, going only by songs unambiguously of a particular decade's traditional style, as opposed to those more on the cusp; keep in mind they cannot be outliers, meaning "Uptown Funk" can't be the last early 80s song, for example:

Last "50s" Song: "Unchained Melody" / The Righteous Brothers (1965)
Last "60s" Song: "Sweet Understanding" / Four Tops (1973)
Last "70s" Song: "Islands in the Stream" / Dolly Parton & Kenny Rogers (1983)
Last "80s" Song: "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love" / Michael Bolton (1993, popular in 1994)
Last "90s" Song: "Can't Fight the Moonlight" / LeAnn Rimes (2000, popular in America in early 2002)
Last "2000s" Song: "September" / Daughtry (2009, popular in 2010)

On the flip side...

First "60s" Song: "Lemon Tree" / Peter, Paul & Mary (1962)
First "70s" Song: "Good Times Bad Times" / Led Zeppelin (1969)
First "80s" Song: "Heart of Glass" / Blondie (1978)
First "90s" Song: "Back to Life" / Soul II Soul (1989)
First "2000s" Song: "If Your Girl Only Knew" / Aaliyah (1996)
First "2010s" Song: "Just Dance" / Lady Gaga (2008)


I agree mostly with this list except for the first 90's song. (my opinion: Run-DMC - Walk This Way from 1986) Also you forgot the First "50s" song, I'd say the first 50s sounding song was "The Fat Man" by Fats Domino released in late 1949.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 04/25/17 at 1:35 pm


I agree mostly with this list except for the first 90's song. (my opinion: Run-DMC - Walk This Way from 1986) Also you forgot the First "50s" song, I'd say the first 50s sounding song was "The Fat Man" by Fats Domino released in late 1949.


I can't vouch directly for the first 50s song because the first half of the year is dominated by music that, while still sounding current in the late 50s, blends in with music from the second half of the 40s. At the very least, I'd say the first unambiguously 50s song would be "Shake, Rattle and Roll" by Bill Hailey & His Comets, having become a hit before "Rock Around the Clock."

"Walk This Way" is definitely not 90s. It epitomozes 80s hip hop with its primitive drums, using of sampling, and sentence-completing rapping (also a trademark of early Beastie Boys and Fat Boys), and is stylistically no different from the rock-infused hip hop on Run-D.M.C.'s first two albums from 1984 and 1985. This type of rap was already outdated before the 80s even ended.

"Back to Life," on the other hand, is pure 90s from head to toe, without even an inchling of 80s to it. Unlike most popular music from 1989, it has no gated, live-sounding drums and instead opts for a much smoother, soul-renaissance groove with distinctly 90s percussion, bass, and pianos. It was definitely the earliest song to have all the essential elements of prototypical 90s pop all wrapped into one. Soul II Soul had another hit single in 1995 in their native UK, "I Care (Soul II Soul)," and it employs pretty much the exact same type of instrumentation and overall feel as its predecessor of 6 years.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Mr Steamer on 04/25/17 at 1:46 pm


I can't vouch directly for the first 50s song because the first half of the year is dominated by music that, while still sounding current in the late 50s, blends in with music from the second half of the 40s.


What year?  ???
Have you heard "Rocket 88" from 1951? That is considered by many to be the first "true" rock and roll song. That could be another contender for first "50s" song.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 04/25/17 at 2:03 pm


What year?  ???


I meant decade, sorry.

Have you heard "Rocket 88" from 1951? That is considered by many to be the first "true" rock and roll song. That could be another contender for first "50s" song.


I suppose you can basically go with that song as the first true 50s song. However, "Shake, Rattle and Roll" was the first to make a particularly significant impact on the mainstream charts. Not to mention, "Rocket 88" is actually still a little primitive compared to more traditional 50s rock due to its drum style, tame mood, and reliance on the saxophone and piano as opposed to the electric guitar. It's not super different from other 12-bar blues songs from the 40s. Hank Williams' "Move It On Over" from 1947 can also be considered a rock prototype, but you can still distinguish it easily from "Rock Around the Clock," which rips it off melodically.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: 80sfan on 04/25/17 at 2:20 pm

I'm not a fan of too much ambivalence, but it's also what makes pop culture so interesting.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/25/17 at 4:01 pm


"Walk This Way" is definitely not 90s. It epitomozes 80s hip hop with its primitive drums, using of sampling, and sentence-completing rapping (also a trademark of early Beastie Boys and Fat Boys), and is stylistically no different from the rock-infused hip hop on Run-D.M.C.'s first two albums from 1984 and 1985. This type of rap was already outdated before the 80s even ended.

I agree with you 100% there.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 04/25/17 at 4:23 pm

How on earth is Walk This Way a "90s song" anyway? The first hip hop song to hit the top 40 was Rapper's Delight in 1980, is that a 90's song, too? I don't get it.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/25/17 at 4:25 pm


How on earth is Walk This Way a "90s song" anyway? The first hip hop song to hit the top 40 was Rapper's Delight in 1980, is that a 90's song, too? I don't get it.

I don't get it either.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Mr Steamer on 04/25/17 at 5:12 pm


How on earth is Walk This Way a "90s song" anyway? The first hip hop song to hit the top 40 was Rapper's Delight in 1980, is that a 90's song, too? I don't get it.


Because I thought it seemed more hardcore than all previous hip hop songs. But now that I think of it, it isn't that much. I'd say hip hop started to become more hardcore and gritty with "Straight Outta Compton" in 1988. That now is what I consider the first "90s" song.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/25/17 at 5:27 pm


Because I thought it seemed more hardcore than all previous hip hop songs. But now that I think of it, it isn't that much. I'd say hip hop started to become more hardcore and gritty with "Straight Outta Compton" in 1988. That now is what I consider the first "90s" song.

Nah, N.W.A. was not 1990s rap either. The songs on the Straight Outta Compton (1988) album were mostly different from rap songs just 4 years later in 1992 ("Jump" by Kriss Kross, for example).

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Howard on 04/26/17 at 3:20 pm


How on earth is Walk This Way a "90s song" anyway? The first hip hop song to hit the top 40 was Rapper's Delight in 1980, is that a 90's song, too? I don't get it.


"Walk This Way" was in 1987 and "Rapper's Delight" was indeed in 1980 and not a 90's song.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/05/17 at 3:22 pm

The last genuinely 80's sounding hit was probably "No More I Love Yous" by Annie Lennox which peaked in the spring of 1995. Granted it is a cover of a song from 1986 but the production still retains the 80s synthesizer sound pretty faithfully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkboTTTmpg


The last Billboard #1 hit to reek of being a late 80s leftover would be All For Love (peaked in January 1994), which has a pretty typical power ballad arrangement from that era and sounds decidedly out of place next to the grunge that was proliferating everywhere in 1993-94.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofA3URC1wyk


Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/05/17 at 4:03 pm


The last genuinely 80's sounding hit was probably "No More I Love Yous" by Annie Lennox which peaked in the spring of 1995. Granted it is a cover of a song from 1986 but the production still retains the 80s synthesizer sound pretty faithfully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkboTTTmpg


That song may be performed by an 80s synthpop icon, but I disagree with it sounding stylistically 80s. Its beat is prototypically 90s, being soft, funky, and new jack swing-oriented. There were several other hit songs throughout the mid 1990s that followed a generally similar formula by artists like Sophie B. Hawkins, Donna Lewis, Seal, and even pop r&b acts like Soul for Real and TLC.

The last Billboard #1 hit to reek of being a late 80s leftover would be All For Love (peaked in January 1994), which has a pretty typical power ballad arrangement from that era and sounds decidedly out of place next to the grunge that was proliferating everywhere in 1993-94.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofA3URC1wyk


1993-1994 wasn't all grunge. Like I mentioned earlier, the pop charts during the entirety of the mid 1990s were dominated by love ballads with arena-scaled production. Stuff like "Kiss from a Rose," "One Sweet Day," and "I'd Lie for You (And That's the Truth)" are just a stone's throw away from "All for Love." Like "No More 'I Love You's'," that song only has the illusion of being an 80s holdover because all three of its performers were successful throughout the 80s. Even compared to most power ballads from the late 80s and very early 90s, "All for Love" is pretty mellowed down and not as bombastic as, say, "How Am I Supposed to Live without You" or "Every Rose Has Its Thorn,"

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/05/17 at 4:17 pm


That song may be performed by an 80s synthpop icon, but I disagree with it being stylistically 80s. Its beat is prototypically 90s, being soft, funky, and new jack swing-oriented. There were several other hit songs throughout the mid 1990s that followed a generally similar formula by artists like Sophie B. Hawkins, Donna Lewis, Seal, and even pop r&b acts like Soul for Real and TLC.


New jack? Not hearing it. There is a subtle downtempo percussion arrangement to it which you might not have seen much of in 1980s pop, but the backing beat is still very synthesizer driven and the song's genre would most effectively be categorized as synthpop. Annie Lennox did experiment with a lot of different sounds in her solo career, but she went more or less back to her roots with this one.

1993-1994 wasn't all grunge. Like I mentioned earlier, the entirety of the pop charts during the mid 1990s were dominated by love ballads with arena-scaled production. Stuff like "Kiss from a Rose," "One Sweet Day," and "I'd Lie for You (And That's the Truth)" are just a stone's throw away from "All for Love." Like "No More 'I Love You's'," that song only has the illusion of being an 80s holdover because all three of its performers were successful throughout the 80s. Even compared to most power ballads from the late 80s and very early 90s, "All for Love" is pretty mellowed down and not as bombastic as, say, "How Am I Supposed to Live without You" or "Every Rose Has Its Thorn,"


"Bombastic" is a totally subjective label and one that is not inherent to any single decade's music style. Every Rose Has Its Thorn for example is actually a mellow, mainly acoustic driven ballad even if the band that performed it was known for being glammy. And every decade and genre has its "bombast". And no, the arrangements of most popular mid or late 90s pop ballads are easily distinctive from All For Love. The "power" chorus (with synth backing) and the out-of-left-field guitar solo are pretty much hallmarks of the late 80s/early 90s AC ballad. It feels very Mutt Lange-y (and not surprisingly he wrote the song).

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/05/17 at 4:58 pm


New jack? Not hearing it. There is a subtle downtempo percussion arrangement to it which you might not have seen much of in 1980s pop, but the backing beat is still very synthesizer driven and the song's genre would most effectively be categorized as synthpop.


"Synthesizer-driven" is a fairly useless distinguisher between 80s and 90s pop because almost all non-rock pop from the 90s used synths in some form. The beats to TLC's "Diggin' on You," Sophie B. Hawkins' "Only Love," and Donna Lewis' "Without Love" are all technically synthesized. Does that automatically make them comparable to Erasure's "Drama!," the Human League's "Don't You Want Me," or Yazoo's "Don't Go?"

New jack swing is far more than just the eraser-headed former members of New Edition and other proteges of Teddy Riley. By technical definition, it's just melodic pop music with swift, swung, hip hop-tinted percussion. Plenty of non-urban musicians were strongly influenced by new jack swing's sensibilities throughout the 90s.

Annie Lennox did experiment with a lot of different sounds in her solo career, but she went more or less back to her roots with this one.

"No More 'I Love You's" is way funkier and more soulful than the propulsive, in-your-face songs she recorded with Eurythmics like "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" and "Who's That Girl."

"Bombastic" is a totally subjective label and one that is not inherent to any single decade's music style. Every Rose Has Its Thorn for example is actually a mellow, mainly acoustic driven ballad even if the band that performed it was known for being glammy. And every decade and genre has its "bombast". And no, the arrangements of most popular mid or late 90s pop ballads are easily distinctive from All For Love. The "power" chorus (with synth backing) and the out-of-left-field guitar solo are pretty much hallmarks of the late 80s/early 90s AC ballad. It feels very Mutt Lange-y (and not surprisingly he wrote the song).


By bombast, I mean more the over-the-top cheese factor, complete with loud drums and hammy vocal delivery. But I still don't see how "All for Love" is radically different from other pop ballads from the mid-late 1990s. The guitar solo and "synth backup" aren't enough to place it squarely in the "80s" category, especially when subsequent hits, like "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing," "I Live My Life for You," "Heaven for Everyone," "When You Love a Woman," "I'd Lie for You (And That's the Truth)," "All By Myself," and plenty others employed similar arena rock tropes.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/05/17 at 7:47 pm


"Synthesizer-driven" is a fairly useless distinguisher between 80s and 90s pop because almost all non-rock pop from the 90s used synths in some form. The beats to TLC's "Diggin' on You," Sophie B. Hawkins' "Only Love," and Donna Lewis' "Without Love" are all technically synthesized. Does that automatically make them comparable to Erasure's "Drama!," the Human League's "Don't You Want Me," or Yazoo's "Don't Go?"


The fact that a number of hits are "technically synthesized" doesn't mean a keyboard riff is largely driving the backing beat and melody. Synths have been widely used in different forms since the mid 1970s, but their prominence in carrying song melodies is a fairly distinguishing characteristic between the 1980s and 90s in the world of pop. There weren't many other pop hits around or after that timeframe where they played a prominent melodic role (and that stayed the case until indie pop rose to prominence in the mid-late 2000s).


New jack swing is far more than just the eraser-headed former members of New Edition and other proteges of Teddy Riley. By technical definition, it's just melodic pop music with swift, swung, hip hop-tinted percussion. Plenty of non-urban musicians were strongly influenced by new jack swing's sensibilities throughout the 90s.


That's a pretty extreme and broad definition, and it feels kinda ludicrous that you would be attempting to classify "No More I Love You's"  more as new jack swing than as synthpop.

"No More 'I Love You's" is way funkier and more soulful than the propulsive, in-your-face songs she recorded with Eurythmics like "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" and "Who's That Girl."

The fact that it happens to be a synth driven song doesn't mean it sounds exactly like all of her other synthpop hits.


By bombast, I mean more the over-the-top cheese factor, complete with loud drums and hammy vocal delivery. But I still don't see how "All for Love" is radically different from other pop ballads from the mid-late 1990s. The guitar solo and "synth backup" aren't enough to place it squarely in the "80s" category, especially when subsequent hits, like "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing," "I Live My Life for You," "Heaven for Everyone," "When You Love a Woman," "I'd Lie for You (And That's the Truth)," "All By Myself," and plenty others employed similar arena rock tropes.


I would personally consider "All For Love" a prime example of all-out cheese. It was crafted as a cornball anthem to a Disney movie and everything from the drippy lyrics to the harmonies to the chorus to the obligatory guitar solo reek of Adult Contemporary cheesiness. It sounds quite dated by late 1990s standards and its production standards are clearly derived from the power ballads of the previous decade.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/05/17 at 10:56 pm


The fact that a number of hits are "technically synthesized" doesn't mean a keyboard riff is largely driving the backing beat and melody. Synths have been widely used in different forms since the mid 1970s, but their prominence in carrying song melodies is a fairly distinguishing characteristic between the 1980s and 90s in the world of pop. There weren't many other pop hits around or after that timeframe where they played a prominent melodic role (and that stayed the case until indie pop rose to prominence in the mid-late 2000s).


I don't hear how "No More 'I Love You's" is melodically driven by a synth like most 80s synthpop songs. The synths in that track are employed primarily as low backup chords, with only a few small licks counteracting the track's vocal and percussive focus. I still feel that if it were a 90s-only artist like Sophie B. Hawkins performing the track, you wouldn't be comparing it to early Eurythmics at all.

That's a pretty extreme and broad definition, and it feels kinda ludicrous that you would be attempting to classify "No More I Love You's"  more as new jack swing than as synthpop.

Full on new jack swing in the Bobby Brown sense or not, "No More 'I Love You's" and several other popular songs from the mid and late 90s still took certain cues from new jack swing with their fast-paced galloping drums, in stark contrast to the more straight-sequenced approaches standard in the 1980s. My main point, anyway, is that this particular song has a quintessentially 90s beat that you'd find almost nowhere in the 80s, not even in any of the decade's synthpop.

The fact that it happens to be a synth driven song doesn't mean it sounds exactly like all of her other synthpop hits.

You're still ardently trying to argue that a song from 1995 is stylistically 80s, even though really it's actually quite of its time, all things considered. Let me put it this way, what actual 1980s songs can you name that "No More 'I Love You's" resembles?

I would personally consider "All For Love" a prime example of all-out cheese. It was crafted as a cornball anthem to a Disney movie and everything from the drippy lyrics to the harmonies to the chorus to the obligatory guitar solo reek of Adult Contemporary cheesiness. It sounds quite dated by late 1990s standards and its production standards are clearly derived from the power ballads of the previous decade.

I'll be honest, I do think "All for Love" could fit okay in the late 80s or very early 90s. However, I don't think it's an unambiguously 80s-style song like Michael Bolton's "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love." There are enough other ballads like it throughout the early and mid 1990s that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb for its time the way Michael Bolton's song does for 1994. Yes, it's definitely dated for late 90s standards, as that's about the time love ballads significantly lost their power edge, but for the mid 90s, it still sounds perfectly current.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: nintieskid999 on 05/05/17 at 11:02 pm

The last Billboard #1 hit to reek of being a late 80s leftover would be All For Love (peaked in January 1994), which has a pretty typical power ballad arrangement from that era and sounds decidedly out of place next to the grunge that was proliferating everywhere in 1993-94.

It was out of place for teen media but it was the sound of Adult Contemporary in 1993 and 1994. I remember the adult contemporary radio at the time.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/06/17 at 1:51 am


I don't hear how "No More 'I Love You's" is melodically driven by a synth like most 80s synthpop songs. The synths in that track are employed primarily as low backup chords, with only a few small licks counteracting the track's vocal and percussive focus. I still feel that if it were a 90s-only artist like Sophie B. Hawkins performing the track, you wouldn't be comparing it to early Eurythmics at all.


Sophie B. Hawkins could probably also fit in with the previous decade's sound, at least with her first album. Eurythmics like? Not quite the same style, but it fits in quite comfortably with the late 1980s commerical pop rock sound.

Full on new jack swing in the Bobby Brown sense or not, "No More 'I Love You's" and several other popular songs from the mid and late 90s still took certain cues from new jack swing with their fast-paced galloping drums, in stark contrast to the more straight-sequenced approaches standard in the 1980s. My main point, anyway, is that this particular song has a quintessentially 90s beat that you'd find almost nowhere in the 80s, not even in any of the decade's synthpop.

The downtempo percussion backing is subtle and not very similar to new jack swing's instrumentation at all, which is far sharper and faster paced.

You're still ardently trying to argue that a song from 1995 is stylistically 80s, even though really it's actually quite of its time, all things considered. Let me put it this way, what actual 1980s songs can you name that "No More 'I Love You's" resembles?

Its literally a cover of a 1986 song by The Lover Speaks and both are pretty synth driven. Enough so that I don't believe an unknowing person could easily figure out which is older if presented with both. What other hits from 1995 does it resemble?  I mean, you mentioned TLC earlier and it sounds literally nothing like any song off of CrazySexyCool.

I'll be honest, I do think "All for Love" could fit okay in the late 80s or very early 90s. However, I don't think it's an unambiguously 80s-style song like Michael Bolton's "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love." There are enough other ballads like it throughout the early and mid 1990s that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb for its time the way Michael Bolton's song does for 1994. Yes, it's definitely dated for late 90s standards, as that's about the time love ballads significantly lost their power edge, but for the mid 90s, it still sounds perfectly current.


Mid 1990s ballads were quickly getting away from that style, which is why it's not a coincidence that Michael Bolton practically fell off the face of the earth after 1993-94 and why All For Love quickly came to sound dated, and also why hair metal vanished rather abruptly. Jim Steinman's idiosyncratic productions notwithstanding, as their over-the-top rock opera qualities don't really derive from '80s arena rock.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/06/17 at 1:58 am


It was out of place for teen media but it was the sound of Adult Contemporary in 1993 and 1994. I remember the adult contemporary radio at the time.


Yes, Adult Contemporary was still kind of stuck in the previous decade up to 1994 or so.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: nintieskid999 on 05/06/17 at 2:24 am


Yes, Adult Contemporary was still kind of stuck in the previous decade up to 1994 or so.


and the peak of the 80s culture was different for teens and adults.
For teens the mega peak was 1983-1985. For adults the mega peak was 1986-1987.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 05/06/17 at 3:04 am


and the peak of the 80s culture was different for teens and adults.
For teens the mega peak was 1983-1985. For adults the mega peak was 1986-1987.


For teens it's more like 85 thru 88. 83 is too early.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/06/17 at 3:27 am


Sophie B. Hawkins could probably also fit in with the previous decade's sound, at least with her first album.


I'm specifically referring to her second album, released in 1994 and still producing hits in 1995 and early 1996. Basically, the way she sort of marries certain aspects of mainstream pop with more unconventional genres like new age and world.

Eurythmics like? Not quite the same style, but it fits in quite comfortably with the late 1980s commerical pop rock sound.

It's not even close to late 80s pop rock. That would be more this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahf2B_eZUc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxF9Qg5mOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZPQtb6NWKM


Almost across the board, commercial pop rock was much stiffer and scrappier than whatever's going on in "No More 'I Love You's."

The downtempo percussion backing is subtle and not very similar to new jack swing's instrumentation at all, which is far sharper and faster paced.

You're clearly still confining your definition of new jack swing to stuff like "Poison" and "Every Little Step." New jack swing isn't all aggressive, it can also go for a smoother sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L_lWs11Hdo

Regardless of any of this, I don't care whether or not "No More 'I Love You's'" sounds completely similar to songs that specifically get the new jack swing label. It still has an unambiguously 90s beat and stands in stark contrast to all the freestyle and straight-sequenced rhythms with loud, gated drums found in late 80s music.

Its literally a cover of a 1986 song by The Lover Speaks and both are pretty synth driven. Enough so that I don't believe an unknowing person could easily figure out which is older if presented with both.

Uh, frankly, having now heard the original from 1986, I can say there's absolutely an enormous difference and that it's obvious which was made in the 80s versus which was made in the 90s. The original isn't "synth driven" the way you speak at all; it has a traditional electric bass and guitar backups. Also, in stark contrast to the Annie Lennox version's muffled, murky soundscape, the 1986 original has loud, crashing drums and is far sharper. Lennox's sounds like it should accompany an exotic temple; The Lover Speaks' original just sounds like any other 80s MTV ballad.

What other hits from 1995 does it resemble?  I mean, you mentioned TLC earlier and it sounds literally nothing like any song off of CrazySexyCool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_jEK7ipX4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPd9be8R5bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bzEYg-CpQE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLGP37re040


In a broader sense, these tracks shroud funky hip hop beats with dreamy synth accompaniments. I know they're not all identical, but if you can compare Annie Lenox's version to late 80s pop rock, then I don't see how these are really from a completely different era.

Mid 1990s ballads were quickly getting away from that style, which is why it's not a coincidence that Michael Bolton practically fell off the face of the earth after 1993-94 and why All For Love quickly came to sound dated, and also why hair metal vanished rather abruptly. Jim Steinman's idiosyncratic productions notwithstanding, as their over-the-top rock opera qualities don't really derive from '80s arena rock.

Michael Bolton remained popular beyond 1994, actually. He had two more pretty decent hits, one with "Can I Touch You...There?" in 1995 (though this was a drastic departure from his usual style), and then again in 1997 with "Go the Distance" from the Hercules soundtrack, where he pretty much returned to his classic power ballad territory.

"All for Love" isn't hair metal, its way more A/C even though it has less synthesized, more arena-tailored production than more modern 90s ballads like "I Believe I Can Fly" and "You Are Not Alone." Like unconventional99 said, A/C radio was still largely comprised of other songs like "All For Love" in 1993 and 1994. As I've stated with several previous examples, pop rock ballads with that same arena bend were still pretty common as late as 1996, so I don't see how "All for Love" deserves to be classified as 80s when it came out well past the end of the 80s and was not outdated for its time the way you keep saying.

Jim Steinman was most popular in the late 70s and early 80s. He composed Bonnie Tyler's "Total Eclipse of the Heart," one of the most famous power ballads of the entire 80s decade.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/07/17 at 12:58 am


I'm specifically referring to her second album, released in 1994 and still producing hits in 1995 and early 1996. Basically, the way she sort of marries certain aspects of mainstream pop with more unconventional genres like new age and world.

It's not even close to late 80s pop rock. That would be more this...



You're obviously misquoting me, Tongues and Tails from 1992 and Sophie B. Hawkins is what fits fairly comfortably with late 80s commercial pop rock. Her 2nd album less so, as it's reliant on synth beats. However, it doesn't sound too much like Eurythmics style pop.

Almost across the board, commercial pop rock was much stiffer and scrappier than whatever's going on in "No More 'I Love You's."

"Stiffer and scrappier"? Sorry, but you're going to have to be more specific or else this is all completely arbitrary.

You're clearly still confining your definition of new jack swing to stuff like "Poison" and "Every Little Step." New jack swing isn't all aggressive, it can also go for a smoother sound:



Uptempo beats with heavy reliance on 808 drum machines is a pretty universal quality to most music attached with the NJS label. "No More I Love You's" features neither and doesn't sound particularly close to Ralph Tresvant or any other New Edition alumnus. I have no idea what you're even hearing there, "No More I Love You's" is probably closer to house/ambient if anything.

Regardless of any of this, I don't care whether or not "No More 'I Love You's'" sounds completely similar to songs that specifically get the new jack swing label. It still has an unambiguously 90s beat and stands in stark contrast to all the freestyle and straight-sequenced rhythms with loud, gated drums found in late 80s music.

Not stark at all, it's a pretty subtle downtempo percussion beat and the synths are what stand out most from the song instrumentally.

Uh, frankly, having now heard the original from 1986, I can say there's absolutely an enormous difference and that it's obvious which was made in the 80s versus which was made in the 90s. The original isn't "synth driven" the way you speak at all; it has a traditional electric bass and guitar backups. Also, in stark contrast to the Annie Lennox version's muffled, murky soundscape, the 1986 original has loud, crashing drums and is far sharper. Lennox's sounds like it should accompany an exotic temple; The Lover Speaks' original just sounds like any other 80s MTV ballad.

The original has a prototypical '80s sophisti-pop sound. The cover has a pretty typical synthpop arrangement. They sound like they could pretty easily come from the same general timeframe.


In a broader sense, these tracks shroud funky hip hop beats with dreamy synth accompaniments. I know they're not all identical, but if you can compare Annie Lenox's version to late 80s pop rock, then I don't see how these are really from a completely different era.

Not hearing a lot of similarities with any of that and Annie Lennox. And not hearing any funky hip hop style beat in "No More I Love You's". Like.. really not.

Michael Bolton remained popular beyond 1994, actually. He had two more pretty decent hits, one with "Can I Touch You...There?" in 1995 (though this was a drastic departure from his usual style), and then again in 1997 with "Go the Distance" from the Hercules soundtrack, where he pretty much returned to his classic power ballad territory.

He pretty much did, two more top 40 hits after The One Thing that didn't receive much if any crossover pop radio airplay and one of those definitely didn't sound particularly close to the arena rock-'80s AOR style he had up through his 1993 album. He was one of pop's biggest stars in the early 1990s and "Said I Loved You.. But I Lied" was clearly his last significant hit single.

"All for Love" isn't hair metal, its way more A/C even though it has less synthesized, more arena-tailored production than more modern 90s ballads like "I Believe I Can Fly" and "You Are Not Alone." Like unconventional99 said, A/C radio was still largely comprised of other songs like "All For Love" in 1993 and 1994. As I've stated with several previous examples, pop rock ballads with that same arena bend were still pretty common as late as 1996, so I don't see how "All for Love" deserves to be classified as 80s when it came out well past the end of the 80s and was not outdated for its time the way you keep saying.

I agree it isn't hair metal, its quickly dated qualities are symptomatic of what also quickly dated most hair metal. There were fairly few top 40 soft rock hits from 1994-95 that sound much like "All For Love",, and no other major hits (which is why I distinguished it in the first place, it hit #1 in a bunch of countries). The Michael Bolton stuff, the Steve Perry hit "You Better Wait", and then some similarities with the hits from the still relevant glam metal groups in that timeframe (Bon Jovi, Firehouse, Def Leppard). Otherwise, can't think of much else. Other popular ballads from the time like ""Kiss From a Rose" or "Have You Ever Really Loved a Woman" don't sound comparable.

Jim Steinman was most popular in the late 70s and early 80s. He composed Bonnie Tyler's "Total Eclipse of the Heart," one of the most famous power ballads of the entire 80s decade.


Uh, yeah, I know who he is. He also had a lot of success in the mid 1990s with Meat loaf and Celine Dion.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/07/17 at 2:34 am


You're obviously misquoting me, Tongues and Tails from 1992 and Sophie B. Hawkins is what fits fairly comfortably with late 80s commercial pop rock. Her 2nd album less so, as it's reliant on synth beats. However, it doesn't sound too much like Eurythmics style pop.


I'm not misquoting you at all, I was only specifically referring to 1994's Whaler. I was never thinking specifically about 1992's Tongues and Tails, as that would be pointless here seeing it's much older than NMILY (I despise writing the song's full title constantly, so I'm sticking to an acronym from hereon out).

"Stiffer and scrappier"? Sorry, but you're going to have to be more specific or else this is all completely arbitrary.

Listening experiences are highly subjective matters, but I think there's a pretty clear distinction in the typical mood present in late 80s pop rock versus the quiet, gentle breeziness of NMILY. The examples of late 80s pop rock I listed are faster, are not ambient, and have much more punctuation both in their percussion hits, as well as their synth and guitar sound. NMILY is the type of thing you should be practicing yoga to; most late 80s pop rock belongs on a car stereo, a party, or a running playlist. Even the smoother, synthier music from that era, like When in Rome's "The Promise" and Information Society's "What's On Your Mind (Pure Energy)" are complete with danceably erratic synth accompaniments that have no trace of double-time swing in them.

Uptempo beats with heavy reliance on 808 drum machines is a pretty universal quality to most music attached with the NJS label. "No More I Love You's" features neither and doesn't sound particularly close to Ralph Tresvant or any other New Edition alumnus. I have no idea what you're even hearing there, "No More I Love You's" is probably closer to house/ambient if anything.

I was referring to the drumbeat alone, not the song in its entirety. NMILY is of course ambient, but in the same way as the Donna Lewis song or, to a lesser degree, the songs I listed by TLC and Brownstone. Whatever the case, its beat is typical 90s and it's ludicrous to compare it to anything in the 80s besides rare novelties and 90s harbingers. Even if you want to focus more specifically on ambient synthpop from the 80s, like OMD's "Souvenir" and Ultravox's "Vienna," the double-time swing beat (if dropping the new jack swing description will quit your complaining) from NMILY immediately sets it apart from those songs.

Not stark at all, it's a pretty subtle downtempo percussion beat and the synths are what stand out most from the song instrumentally.

We must clearly be listening to an entirely different track because anybody who calls that loud, crashing percussion beat "subtle" has some sort of hearing deficiency. The fact that you can say Lenox's NMILY's beat isn't even an ounce similar to "Diggin' on You" or "Sensitivity" yet it is just like the original from 1986 is testament to how broken and biased your perspective is on the matter. Usually, I can generally give people the benefit of the doubt over a musical opinion I disagree with, because I figure a different background would cause different things to stand out, but here, it feels like your only real arguments for NMILY is that it's recorded by an 80s synthpop veteran and it's a cover of a song from 1986, and then allowing those facts alone to justify a song from 1995 with an unquestionably 90s beat as being "80s." Your arguments really aren't any less arbitrary than mine are.

The original has a prototypical '80s sophisti-pop sound. The cover has a pretty typical synthpop arrangement. They sound like they could pretty easily come from the same general timeframe.

Your definition of "typical synthpop arrangement" is vague and once again ignores how much the 90s beat in Annie Lenox's version separates it from the 80s. The ambient synth elements could fit into the early or mid 80s, but they don't sound outdated for the mid 90s either, as my previous examples demonstrate. Lenox's cover came out in 1995. All these points considered, it should be categorized with the 90s, not the 80s. It has isolated elements that can be traced to the 80s, but it is certainly not a typical, 80s-only song the way you keep vaguely attempting to describe.

Not hearing a lot of similarities with any of that and Annie Lennox. And not hearing any funky hip hop style beat in "No More I Love You's". Like.. really not.

The hip hop beat doesn't show up until well into the track, but it's there. It's quiet and subtle, but it's very much there. Please don't honestly tell me the late 80s pop rock songs I linked to are more sonically similar to NMILY '95 than the mid 90s quasi-pop and r&b tracks I posted.

He pretty much did, two more top 40 hits after The One Thing that didn't receive much if any crossover pop radio airplay and neither sounded particularly close to the arena rock-'80s AOR style he had up through his 1993 album. He was one of pop's biggest stars in the early 1990s and "Said I Loved You.. But I Lied" was clearly his last significant hit single.

"Completely," "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love," "Can I Touch You...There?," and "Go the Distance" were all moderate hits, so it's not like he vanished completely from the face of the earth like so many other 80s icons did by the mid 90s. "Can I Touch You...There?" was actually a particularly big hit in the UK, peaking at #6. "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love," like I mentioned earlier, is a real example of a clearly 80s song that somehow managed to make a chart impact despite coming out in 1994.

Uh, yeah, I know who he is. He also had a lot of success in the mid 1990s with Meat loaf and Celine Dion.

Yeah, but you also claimed he didn't borrow from 80s arena rock, when really he was one of the most recognizable producers of the arena rock era. In fact, "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come True" were both written back in 80s being they were most famously recorded in the mid 90s.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/08/17 at 2:16 am


I'm not misquoting you at all, I was only specifically referring to 1994's Whaler. I was never thinking specifically about 1992's Tongues and Tails, as that would be pointless here seeing it's much older than NMILY (I despise writing the song's full title constantly, so I'm sticking to an acronym from hereon out).


Well your point seemed to be that I wouldn't think to compare Sophie B. Hawkins to commercial '80s music because it predates her earliest material, unlike Annie Lennox, who had been prolific in the '80s. I'm pointing out that I still would and it seems like a silly distinction.

Listening experiences are highly subjective matters, but I think there's a pretty clear distinction in the typical mood present in late 80s pop rock versus the quiet, gentle breeziness of NMILY. The examples of late 80s pop rock I listed are faster, are not ambient, and have much more punctuation both in their percussion hits, as well as their synth and guitar sound. NMILY is the type of thing you should be practicing yoga to; most late 80s pop rock belongs on a car stereo, a party, or a running playlist. Even the smoother, synthier music from that era, like When in Rome's "The Promise" and Information Society's "What's On Your Mind (Pure Energy)" are complete with danceably erratic synth accompaniments that have no trace of double-time swing in them.

I was referring to the drumbeat alone, not the song in its entirety. NMILY is of course ambient, but in the same way as the Donna Lewis song or, to a lesser degree, the songs I listed by TLC and Brownstone. Whatever the case, its beat is typical 90s and it's ludicrous to compare it to anything in the 80s besides rare novelties and 90s harbingers. Even if you want to focus more specifically on ambient synthpop from the 80s, like OMD's "Souvenir" and Ultravox's "Vienna," the double-time swing beat (if dropping the new jack swing description will quit your complaining) from NMILY immediately sets it apart from those songs.


All subjective. You seem really hung up on the drum BPM, when that downtempo rhythm isn't really a major component of the song's melody to my ears.

We must clearly be listening to an entirely different track because anybody who calls that loud, crashing percussion beat "subtle" has some sort of hearing deficiency. The fact that you can say Lenox's NMILY's beat isn't even an ounce similar to "Diggin' on You" or "Sensitivity" yet it is just like the original from 1986 is testament to how broken and biased your perspective is on the matter. Usually, I can generally give people the benefit of the doubt over a musical opinion I disagree with, because I figure a different background would cause different things to stand out, but here, it feels like your only real arguments for NMILY is that it's recorded by an 80s synthpop veteran and it's a cover of a song from 1986, and then allowing those facts alone to justify a song from 1995 with an unquestionably 90s beat as being "80s." Your arguments really aren't any less arbitrary than mine are.

It certainly does not sound just like the original and I never made that claim. Stop twisting my arguments. It does sound similar enough, especially relative to the R&B slow jams of the mid 1990s time period that you seem to want to compare it to. Beyond that, you're also guilty of relying on some pretty heavy generalizations, such as your apparent belief that all '80s synthpop incorporated the same percussion tempo.

Your definition of "typical synthpop arrangement" is vague and once again ignores how much the 90s beat in Annie Lenox's version separates it from the 80s. The ambient synth elements could fit into the early or mid 80s, but they don't sound outdated for the mid 90s either, as my previous examples demonstrate. Lenox's cover came out in 1995. All these points considered, it should be categorized with the 90s, not the 80s. It has isolated elements that can be traced to the 80s, but it is certainly not a typical, 80s-only song the way you keep vaguely attempting to describe.

The synths are literally overlaid on top of a mild drumbeat throughout the song. That is pretty front and center. It's pretty easy to categorize it as synthpop and most listeners would probably make a pretty obvious connection with that sound and the preceding decade. Good on you for having a difference in opinion. That's a big accomplishment.

The hip hop beat doesn't show up until well into the track, but it's there. It's quiet and subtle, but it's very much there. Please don't honestly tell me the late 80s pop rock songs I linked to are more sonically similar to NMILY '95 than the mid 90s quasi-pop and r&b tracks I posted.

So you now agree that the downtempo arrangement is "subtle" after you chided me a few paragraphs earlier for using that word?

"Completely," "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love," "Can I Touch You...There?," and "Go the Distance" were all moderate hits, so it's not like he vanished completely from the face of the earth like so many other 80s icons did by the mid 90s. "Can I Touch You...There?" was actually a particularly big hit in the UK, peaking at #6. "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love," like I mentioned earlier, is a real example of a clearly 80s song that somehow managed to make a chart impact despite coming out in 1994.

Michael Bolton wasn't exactly an 80s icon, his biggest successes were overwhelmingly from 1990 to 1993. The fact that he only managed to scrounge together a couple more modest hits after that period when he had a been a proverbial hit single machine just a few years prior is a testament to the rapidly changing tastes of the time and supports my point.

Yeah, but you also claimed he didn't borrow from 80s arena rock, when really he was one of the most recognizable producers of the arena rock era. In fact, "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come True" were both written back in 80s being they were most famously recorded in the mid 90s.


He didn't. Maybe do a little more research, his work probably influenced arena rock more than the other way around. The Wagnerian Rock sound Steinman produced largely predated the MTV-era arena rock production cliches. Meat Loaf and Steinman's own careers flourished in the 1975-81 period when that arena rock sound was, at best, in its infancy.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/08/17 at 3:02 am


Well your point seemed to be that I wouldn't think to compare Sophie B. Hawkins to commercial '80s music because it predates her earliest material, unlike Annie Lennox, who had been prolific in the '80s. I'm pointing out that I still would and it seems like a silly distinction.


So "As I Lay Me Down" and "Only Love (The Ballad of Sleeping Beauty)" are 80s songs? How far are you seriously willing to stretch your definition of "80s" music? Might as well call INXS's "Elegantly Wasted" an 80s holdover, too. It may have come out in 1997, but hey, it's reasonably similar to what they put out in the 80s, excluding the updated instrumentation.

All subjective. You seem really hung up on the drum BPM, when that downtempo rhythm isn't really a major component of the song's melody to my ears.

Its melody? Why would it be a significant component of its melody? The point is, a beat like that doesn't belong in an 80s song, it dates the track squarely in the 90s.

It certainly does not sound just like the original and I never made that claim. Stop twisting my arguments. It does sound similar enough, especially relative to the R&B slow jams of the mid 1990s time period that you seem to want to compare it to.

Please explain in direct detail, or I'll never be able to hear where you're coming from. All you can respond with is that the cover is "similar" to its original and that it's nothing like anything else from the mid 1990s; "synths" are your only basis for comparing the Lenox version to the '86 original, and you aren't even elaborating on how the mid 90s songs I listed are any different.

Beyond that, you're also guilty of relying on some pretty heavy generalizations, such as your apparent belief that all '80s synthpop incorporated the same percussion tempo.

How am I generalizing any more than you are? I'm referring to specific elements and giving direct adjectives to both versions of NMILY. Also, when the hell did I ever claim all 80s synthpop had the same percussion tempo? Besides faster stuff like "Waiting for a Star to Fall" and "Blue Savannah," I also referred to "Vienna" and "Souvenir," both of which are quite slow, the former to a greater degree.

The synths are literally overlaid on top of a mild drumbeat throughout the song. That is pretty front and center. It's pretty easy to categorize it as synthpop and most listeners would probably make a pretty obvious connection with that sound and the preceding decade.

Synthpop does not automatically equal 80s, especially since the genre in general lasted extremely far into the 90s. Even after NMILY or around the same time, acts like The Human League, OMD, Depeche Mode, and Erasure still had synthpop hits. The difference is that by the mid-90s, the genre had evolved considerably since its original breakthrough around the turn of the 80s. NMILY builds upon the genre's original foundations with a 90s beat. It's practically equivalent to calling Nickelback a 90s-style band just because post-grunge existed during most of the 90s.

Good on you for having a difference in opinion. That's a big accomplishment.

I'm stressing how unnecessary it is to call NMILY a stylistically 80s song because it feeds into decadeology for the mere sake of decadeology. If it fits in reasonably with trends of the decade of its release, it belongs to that era. NMILY has more than enough about it that makes it fit in with the 90s and does not cause it to stick out like a sore thumb the way "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love" does for the mid-90s.

So you now agree that the downtempo arrangement is "subtle" after you chided me a few paragraphs earlier for using that word?

It's subtle and downtempo, but its still a 90s-style double-time swing beat, essentially using a common trait of new jack swing and employing it for a completely different mood.

Michael Bolton wasn't exactly an 80s icon, his biggest successes were overwhelmingly from 1990 to 1993. The fact that he only managed to scrounge together a couple more modest hits after that period when he had a been a proverbial hit single machine just a few years prior is a testament to the rapidly changing tastes of the time and supports my point.

If you can extend the definition of stylistically 80s music all the way to "All for Love" and Annie Lenox's NMILY, then I don't see why Michael Bolton cannot also be considered an 80s-type of artist during his prime.

He didn't. Maybe do a little more research, his work probably influenced arena rock more than the other way around. The Wagnerian Rock sound Steinman produced largely predated the MTV-era arena rock production cliches. Meat Loaf and Steinman's own careers flourished in the 1975-81 period when that arena rock sound was, at best, in its infancy.

"Total Eclipse of the Heart" came out in 1983.

Considering this debate all boils down to something as arbitrary as "what song from the 90s was the last to sound 80s," I'm surprised how long it's gone on. It doesn't feel like a productive discussion anymore because we clearly hear completely different things in the same song, so I really don't want to drag it out any further. Debate itself is completely worthless, nobody is ever swayed by anything. It doesn't matter who you are. Everyone always knows their instincts are true, so it's pointless for them to change their minds. It's because of these conversations that heated fights start over completely petty matters.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: HazelBlue99 on 05/08/17 at 3:35 am

What is "80s" music? Sure, you can say that 80s music is defined by genres such as glam rock, synthpop, new-wave and hair-metal, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of these genres spanned into other decades and in some cases, were significant to the music of the preceding or following decade. You can't call a spade a spade and simply say, "this is the last outright 80s song". If an 80s tribute band released a cover of a song in 2016, would that be the last ever 80s song? No, of course not. At the end of the day, there isn't a "last ever 80s song".

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 05/08/17 at 4:40 am

Songs released in December 1989 are the last 80's songs. Anything after that is 90's.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: Howard on 05/08/17 at 5:00 am


Songs released in December 1989 are the last 80's songs. Anything after that is 90's.


That would sum it up nicely.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 05/08/17 at 3:54 pm


So "As I Lay Me Down" and "Only Love (The Ballad of Sleeping Beauty)" are 80s songs? How far are you seriously willing to stretch your definition of "80s" music? Might as well call INXS's "Elegantly Wasted" an 80s holdover, too. It may have come out in 1997, but hey, it's reasonably similar to what they put out in the 80s, excluding the updated instrumentation.


Again trying to misquote me and/or twist my point. You seem to have a nasty habit of doing that.

Its melody? Why would it be a significant component of its melody? The point is, a beat like that doesn't belong in an 80s song, it dates the track squarely in the 90s.

More arbitrary figuring. I could say a synth beat like that doesn't belong in a 90s song and it places it squarely in the 80s. See how easy that was?

Please explain in direct detail, or I'll never be able to hear where you're coming from. All you can respond with is that the cover is "similar" to its original and that it's nothing like anything else from the mid 1990s; "synths" are your only basis for comparing the Lenox version to the '86 original, and you aren't even elaborating on how the mid 90s songs I listed are any different.

It definitely does sound similar albeit reworked pretty distinctly. None of the mid 90s songs you just posted even use standalone synth keyboard riffs at all. I mean, who in the world would categorize "Diggin' On You" or "If You Love Me" as synthpop? They are very percussion and bass reliant in the way they carry their melodies and hooks. It's a pretty stark contrast in production.

How am I generalizing any more than you are? I'm referring to specific elements and giving direct adjectives to both versions of NMILY. Also, when the hell did I ever claim all 80s synthpop had the same percussion tempo? Besides faster stuff like "Waiting for a Star to Fall" and "Blue Savannah," I also referred to "Vienna" and "Souvenir," both of which are quite slow, the former to a greater degree.

Just twisting your words they way you twist mine. You are still saying that a tempo of that sort doesn't "belong" in an 80s pop song. Seems pretty silly, considering the wide range of 80s pop songs still used all sorts of drum tempos.

Synthpop does not automatically equal 80s, especially since the genre in general lasted extremely far into the 90s. Even after NMILY or around the same time, acts like The Human League, OMD, Depeche Mode, and Erasure still had synthpop hits. The difference is that by the mid-90s, the genre had evolved considerably since its original breakthrough around the turn of the 80s. NMILY builds upon the genre's original foundations with a 90s beat. It's practically equivalent to calling Nickelback a 90s-style band just because post-grunge existed during most of the 90s.

Synth driven riffs in pop music is pretty central to defining the general musical style of the 80s. And this is all extremely broad and generalized I know. Calling something which employs primarily that sound "80s like" is pretty straightforward. You can try to dizzy yourself arguing in circles around this but that's pretty much the crux of my point.

And FWIW, Nickelback's early albums would generally be grouped in with bands like Fuel, Creed, Tonic, Bush, Seether, Breaking Benjamin etc. Many of whom had material from the 1990s. It'd be very fair to call them a "90s" style band, the differences are pretty superficial and that stuff would have still been popular if it had come out 2-4 years earlier.

I'm stressing how unnecessary it is to call NMILY a stylistically 80s song because it feeds into decadeology for the mere sake of decadeology. If it fits in reasonably with trends of the decade of its release, it belongs to that era. NMILY has more than enough about it that makes it fit in with the 90s and does not cause it to stick out like a sore thumb the way "Ain't Got Nothing If You Ain't Got Love" does for the mid-90s.

Sorry to break it to you but this whole thread would fit the definition of decadeology. I'm merely indulging it. From an objective lens, it's completely pointless/silly to argue that anything released outside of a given decade is actually "from" another decade.

And there was but one other synthpop top 40 hit in the U.S. in 1995 ("Tell Me When"). Annie Lennox's track sticks out like a sore thumb. Not a whole lot sounded very comparable to my ears in the time around it and certainly not in the ensuing years in the '90s.



If you can extend the definition of stylistically 80s music all the way to "All for Love" and Annie Lenox's NMILY, then I don't see why Michael Bolton cannot also be considered an 80s-type of artist during his prime.


Michael Bolton was an '80s style artist, his hits were very reliant on the typical AOR sound of that decade. You, however, labeled him an "'80s icon" when his actual successes in the actual 1980s were fairly sparse until the very, very end of the decade with the release of Soul Provider. He was primarily only a superstar in the early 1990s.

"Total Eclipse of the Heart" came out in 1983.

Cool. That doesn't change the fact that Steinman wasn't an "arena rock" artist. He had a pretty distinctive style.

Considering this debate all boils down to something as arbitrary as "what song from the 90s was the last to sound 80s," I'm surprised how long it's gone on. It doesn't feel like a productive discussion anymore because we clearly hear completely different things in the same song, so I really don't want to drag it out any further. Debate itself is completely worthless, nobody is ever swayed by anything. It doesn't matter who you are. Everyone always knows their instincts are true, so it's pointless for them to change their minds. It's because of these conversations that heated fights start over completely petty matters.


Yes, it's a pretty pointless debate. I do find musical trends to be fascinating, but when one starts attaching era labels to every little thing it goes down a really ridiculous path, as we're seeing here.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: #Infinity on 05/08/17 at 5:56 pm


Yes, it's a pretty pointless debate. I do find musical trends to be fascinating, but when one starts attaching era labels to every little thing it goes down a really ridiculous path, as we're seeing here.


I'm glad you can at least agree on that. I'll admit I'm of course partially responsible for allowing this dumb debate to go on as long as possible, but even with the additional points you just made, I don't feel like any of this is going to extend any further than just mutual passive aggression over different interpretations of a friggin' song. I feel I've already explained in detail why I personally see Lennox's NMILY as 90s, and if you still think I'm just making a bunch of arbitrary generalizations, then so be it. I won't claim my opinion to be a factual representation of the song's chronological style, but at this point, I do hope you at least respect my opinion if I agree to respect yours. I know I expressed puzzlement over your reasoning, but that's because I didn't expect you to take your opinion so seriously, and it's very evident that "80s" music means different things to the both of us.

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: oingo_fan on 05/08/17 at 11:13 pm

IMHO, this is it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCKLJGLENs

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 05/09/17 at 2:39 am


IMHO, this is it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCKLJGLENs


Yes! The Cure rule! I love Disintegration. 8)

Subject: Re: Ordinary World: the last ever "80s" song?

Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 2:41 am


I'm glad you can at least agree on that. I'll admit I'm of course partially responsible for allowing this dumb debate to go on as long as possible, but even with the additional points you just made, I don't feel like any of this is going to extend any further than just mutual passive aggression over different interpretations of a friggin' song. I feel I've already explained in detail why I personally see Lennox's NMILY as 90s, and if you still think I'm just making a bunch of arbitrary generalizations, then so be it. I won't claim my opinion to be a factual representation of the song's chronological style, but at this point, I do hope you at least respect my opinion if I agree to respect yours. I know I expressed puzzlement over your reasoning, but that's because I didn't expect you to take your opinion so seriously, and it's very evident that "80s" music means different things to the both of us.


Definitely, no worries  :)

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