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Subject: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: 1993 on 03/16/06 at 1:29 pm

Generation Y
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Generation Y is the cohort of Americans born immediately after "Generation X", though the term is itself controversial and is synonymous with several alternative terms including The Net Generation, Millennials and Echo Boomers. Generation Y is generally considered to be the last generation of Americans wholly born in the 20th century, whose birth years have now concluded. Using the broadest definition commonly cited, Generation Y currently includes Americans in their mid and early 20s, teenagers and children over the age of 5 (as of 2006). At times, the term is extrapolated beyond the United States to refer to similarly aged youth in the Western World or Anglophone World.

As generations are defined not by formal process, but rather by demographers, the press and media, popular culture, market researchers, and by members of the generation themselves, there is no precise consensus as to which birth years constitute Generation Y. Although different groups or individuals consider a different range of years to constitute Generation Y, that range of years is almost always within the outer bounds of 1976 as the earliest possible year and 2001 as the latest, however some say the final year of Gen Y is between 1993 and 2000 because they would be the youngest people to appreciate the changes of the Digital Revolution. The ongoing debate is in part due to the lack of a single marquis event, analogous to the end of World War II for the "Baby Boomer" generation, that can demarcate the start or end of this generation. If the years 1978-2000 are used, then the size of Generation Y in the United States is approximately 76 million.

Controversy and Attempts to Name Generation Y
The term Generation Y (often shortened to Gen Y) is itself controversial because it is seen by some as borrowing too strongly from the term Generation X (Gen X), which when originally coined carried a negative connotation. Many feel the use of Gen Y as a term fails to capture the cohort's unique social, political, and cultural experience. As a result, numerous terms have arisen that are generally synonymous with Generation Y. While Generation Y alludes to that cohort's successional relationship to Generation X, the term Echo Boomers is used to allude to the generation's close tie to the primary childbearing years of Baby Boomers. The terms Millennials and Net Generation are attempts to give the Gen Y cohort more independent names that are tied with key events and cultural trends that are strongly associated with the generation. No single term is the "correct" term to describe members of this generation.

Following the publication of their book, Generations: The History of America's Future, 1584 to 2069, much credit has been given to the names used for various American cohorts by authors William Strauss & Neil Howe. Howe and Strauss use the term "Millenials" as opposed to "Generation Y", arguing that members of Gen Y actually coined the term Millenials themselves and have statistically expressed a wish not to be associated closely with Gen X. They followed up their large study of the history of American demographics with a new book specifically on Gen Y, titled Millenials Rising.

In Generations, Howe and Strauss use the years 1982-2000 as the birth years of Generation Y, using the 18 childhood years of the high school graduating class of 2000 as their marking points. They reasoned that the high school class of 2000 received notable public attention and political initiatives during their youth that provided a contrast between Americans born before this class and those born after.

In 1993 a new term came into being - Gen Y. The term first appeared in an August 1993 Ad Age editorial to describe those teenagers born between 1974 -1980.

In his book Growing Up Digital, business strategist and psychologist Don Tapscott coined the term "Net Generation" for the group, pointing at the significance of being the first to grow up immersed in a digital--and Internet--driven world.

Subsets of Generation Y

Early or "Cold" Generation Y
Because most definitions of Generation Y span upwards of 20 years, arguments have been made that different subsets of this generation have had distinct experiences that make it inappropriate to consider the often widest defined range (1976-2001) to really be considered a single generation.

Several scholars within the realm of sociological academia have postulated on the existence of a small but none-the-less distinct generational subset falling in the early years of Generation Y. It has been noted that those born in the years 1982, 1983 and possibly 1984, exhibit certain societal and cultural traits, habits and preferences that-- while combining certain aspects of GEN X, and especially GEN Y-- render them unique in their own right. This generational partition has been occasionally referred to as the Early Y or Cold Y generation. Notably, this theory conjects that Generation X ends in 1981, rather than one of the earlier years going back to 1976 used by some scholars.

Reasons for this partition include attitudes about technology, societal norms and, in an indirectly, areas like the global political order, etc. This "Cold Y" generation was the very last to obtain cognizance or self-awareness before the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War. Therefore they were the last generational segment with any memory of life during the Cold War. They were also the last to have some ideas of what life was like when the modern information based society was in its transitional/formative years, rather than the current all-pervasive and totally integrated form it had taken by the early 90's. In other words, they were the final generation to be able to compare and contrast the late Cold War/Space Age society with the Post-Cold War/Information Age society using their own personal experiences and memories.

Consequently, one can see these characteristics manifest themselves in areas like the approach to contemporary technology. For the regular generation Y, modern information technology has always been "there", whereas Early Y grew up during the critical period of technological evolution in which the current bedrock technologies on which our info-based society relies were moved out of the technical/specialist realm and into the consumer applied realm, often when traits of each area were mixed and indistinct, giving Early Y a rather odd viewpoint that combines the outlook of the specialist/technical segment of the previous generation, though much more widely disseminated, with the integrationist outlook of the later Y generation.

In terms of political and societal outlook, some scholars argue there are also noticeable differences. Gen X has now largely had time to fall into the standard orthodoxies of political participation, and mainstream Gen Y has either done so also or (for a wide segment of it) remained apathetic or non-participatory, they argue. Early Y, on the other hand, has manifested tendencies towards a less common form of what has been termed "policy-centric pragmatism", which places a lower value, relatively speaking, on constructs like ideology or formalism. When what could be termed ideology does manifest itself, the Early Y's seem to have taken-on an unusual tendency to look to often imported belief or value systems that lie outside the scope of those normally brought into the U.S. from abroad.

Speaking in terms of societal mores and values, some academics theorize that Early Y is in limbo between the post-Sexual Revolution norms of Gen X and the emergent ones of Gen Y (which have been described by some commentators as simply the normalization or commoditization of those of Gen X). This includes an apparent embracing of the basic outlooks of Gen X, but a reluctance to carry to their logical extremes, as we see occurring now with Gen Y. In many areas, Early Y seems to embrace the more cynical worldview exhibited by X while rejecting some of what they view as crassness or immoderation. It has been remarked that in doing so, as Early Y matures they have begun to look several generations behind X in forming certain societal/sexual constructs.


MTV Generation
In popular culture, a larger early Generation Y (and late Generation X) subset consisting of those born from 1976 to 1984, has been postulated, dubbed the MTV Generation. Notably, this subset of Generation Y would have memories of the cold-war era, including the existence of the Former Soviet Union, and the Berlin wall, as well as other memories from the early 1980s that are not part of the shared experience of most members of Generation Y. Moreover, members of this subset of Generation Y would have experience the advent of the Internet and the "Information Age" during their late childhood or teen years, whereas later members of Generation Y were younger children during this period and may have limited memories of the period before the Internet.

However, core Gen Yers, even those born as late as 1993 would be somewhat able to appreciate the Digital Revolution, as they could readily recall certain analog-age items such as VHS tapes.


9/11 Paradigm Shift
Some scholars and popular periodicals are now also making arguments that the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks represent a paradigm shift that ought to demarcate the end of Gen Y. Therefore, some claim that those born in the years spanning 1996-2001, are truly part of a distinct generation, perhaps part of the loosely defined "Generation Z," because those born in this time span have limited or no memories of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Also, these youths would not remember a period before the widespread use of personal computers or the Internet.


The moments that defined Generation Y
In attempting to define and characterize generations, demographers often rely on the experience of formative national events as one tool to demarcate various generations. Generations are shaped by their childhood experiences, and then defined by their early-adulthood actions, when each generation can consciously adopt or reject the attitudes or actions of prior generations. Notably, the experience of the Great Depression and World War II are a major way of defining the formative years of the so-called "G.I. Generation", also known at times as the "Greatest Generation". In turn, the experiences of the Moon Landing, assassination of JFK, and the 1960s social revolution are key events that demarcate the formative years of the "Baby Boomer" generation.

Several such events have been used as ways of defining Generation Y.

The Challenger explosion on January 28, 1986, is one major event that separates Generation X and Generation Y, as most members of Generation Y were either too young or not yet born to remember this major national event.
The fall of the Soviet Union, and the first Gulf War, are both midway events for members of Generation Y, occurring in 1991, as many members were old enough to remember these events as children, but many had not yet been born.
The widespread use of Personal Computers and the Internet is an event shared by the majority of Gen Y. Taking off during the period 1996-2001, most members of this generation spent at least part of their youth with a home computer and internet access, and members of this Generation use the Internet as a tool for socialization more so than previous generations.
The date of the September 11th attacks is an often proposed end-point for the generation. Those that were not yet born in 2001 and those that were otherwise too young to remember and/or understand what occurred on that infamous day (about 1997 up) would thus be grouped into Generation Z or what Cryderman defines as the iGeneration as they would have no memory whatsoever of the 20th Century and any predigital technologies still around in the Nineties. Meanwhile, people who were still in school (or had recently graduated) would be called Generation Y. Such propositions, of course, remain disputed.
Afghanistan and the Iraq War, as well as the War on Terror may become the war that defines Gen Y akin to World War II for the GI Generation and the Vietnam War for the Baby Boomers.

more here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y

interesting read...thoughts? opinions?

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/16/06 at 2:17 pm

I don't even bother with that Wikipedia article anymore...

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/16/06 at 3:13 pm


I don't even bother with that Wikipedia article anymore...


I wrote some of it ... most of the music stuff in Gen Y culture is my work.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/16/06 at 5:05 pm


I wrote some of it ... most of the music stuff in Gen Y culture is my work.


I wrote alot of it too, but I prefer to read rather than write Wikipedia, it can get so contentious and I'm so argumentative it's just bad for me.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/16/06 at 5:57 pm


interesting read...thoughts? opinions?



Nothing new here if you visit this site very often. I'd say it's fairly accurate but like alot of stuff on wikipedia somewhat opinonated.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: bbigd04 on 03/16/06 at 9:48 pm

There's some decent information in there, but I disagree with a lot of the article because it's pretty much written on an opinion basis. To say "someone born after this year wouldn't have been able to recall so and so" is an absolute opinion, everybody has a different memory, some better than others and you can't say with any certainty that somebody can't remember something just because they were quite young at the time. I don't agree with their start and end dates either, of course nobody can fully agree on that.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/16/06 at 11:13 pm


There's some decent information in there, but I disagree with a lot of the article because it's pretty much written on an opinion basis. To say "someone born after this year wouldn't have been able to recall so and so" is an absolute opinion, everybody has a different memory, some better than others and you can't say with any certainty that somebody can't remember something just because they were quite young at the time. I don't agree with their start and end dates either, of course nobody can fully agree on that.


Well that's the thing about generations, they're more invented by the users than anything else.  I could claim to be a Gen Xer, Yer, or Zer and nobody could certainly say I was right or wrong.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/17/06 at 11:21 am


Well that's the thing about generations, they're more invented by the users than anything else.  I could claim to be a Gen Xer, Yer, or Zer and nobody could certainly say I was right or wrong.



Totally, everybody probably has a different opinion on this. I totally reject the notion though of having Gen Y go into the 2000's. I just dont think I could possibly be in the same generation as somebody born in this decade. I dont think generations should last more than 15 years IMO.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/17/06 at 11:25 am



Totally, everybody probably has a different opinion on this. I totally reject the notion though of having Gen Y go into the 2000's. I just dont think I could possibly be in the same generation as somebody born in this decade. I dont think generations should last more than 15 years IMO.


I agree.  The very, very latest I would put Gen Y at is '01, and that's only because 1963ers are considered Boomers usually, even though they were born in the year Kennedy was shot.

I also think the late '70s is generally too early, yeah they have some Y in them but they're really just latter Gen X.  I also think that the mid '90s, while marginal are the very end of Y rather than the beginning of Z, even though after 1992 or so Gen Y is no longer like Gen X (the little Xers are like 1982-1992 imo).

I think a generation should be 14-18 years.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/17/06 at 11:34 am


I agree.  The very, very latest I would put Gen Y at is '01, and that's only because 1963ers are considered Boomers usually, even though they were born in the year Kennedy was shot.

I also think the late '70s is generally too early, yeah they have some Y in them but they're really just latter Gen X.  I also think that the mid '90s, while marginal are the very end of Y rather than the beginning of Z, even though after 1992 or so Gen Y is no longer like Gen X (the little Xers are like 1982-1992 imo).

I think a generation should be 14-18 years.



Yeah '01ers might be able to squeeze in since they probably would be able to remember the 00's decently(like an '81er could remember the '80s pretty good) I also dont think late 70's are Gen Y even though they have some Y in them as you said they where a part of the very X early '90s. I still say 1982/83 is the first year that's Y.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/17/06 at 11:43 am



Yeah '01ers might be able to squeeze in since they probably would be able to remember the 00's decently(like an '81er could remember the '80s pretty good) I also dont think late 70's are Gen Y even though they have some Y in them as you said they where a part of the very X early '90s. I still say 1982/83 is the first year that's Y.


Yeah I'd say late 1982 to 1995/early '97 is Gen Y.  1994-2001 I think is the "Echo Busters", they're not totally Y because they have little or no late '90s credit but they would remember the '00s well enough.  Honest-to-God Gen Z though is people born in the '00s.  Basically, they're the first generation that's "born under a computer" rather than the '80s and early '90s kids who adapted to the digital age around age 5-18.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Chris MegatronTHX on 03/18/06 at 12:29 am

May I ask a serious question?  Why do you guys love talking about this kind of topic so much?  I was gladly on the wagon with you in the beginning, but you guys just keep going and going with it, practically beating the life out of it.  And then after that,...you go some more.  Please, I would like to know why this topic of when generations start and end, and the culture of decades interests you so much?

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Tanya1976 on 03/18/06 at 10:51 am


May I ask a serious question?  Why do you guys love talking about this kind of topic so much?  I was gladly on the wagon with you in the beginning, but you guys just keep going and going with it, practically beating the life out of it.  And then after that,...you go some more.  Please, I would like to know why this topic of when generations start and end, and the culture of decades interests you so much?


Seriously.

IMHO, I believe those that are posting are trying to justify not being part of the current times. Sorry, but you are. Yes, you missed out on the past generations, but that was the spin of the bottle. You weren't there the first time, not your fault at all. Enjoy life now!

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/18/06 at 5:59 pm


Seriously.

IMHO, I believe those that are posting are trying to justify not being part of the current times. Sorry, but you are. Yes, you missed out on the past generations, but that was the spin of the bottle. You weren't there the first time, not your fault at all. Enjoy life now!


True, but people can be fans of anything. It's just like how we feel towards other people - it's kinda involuntary. We maybe can't even explain why, but we just feel a certain way about someone at times.

Now, of course, I'll totally agree just because you like the '50s doesn't mean you were a part of living it. But surely you can still be knowledgeable on the era, or listen to Elvis, or enjoy going to classic diners/malt shops and restoring old '57 T-birds.

Yes, many people do like "their" era (probably more in past generations, but many still do), but no one is under obligation to, LOL. When I was 15 in 1996 and '97, yeah I liked the Oregon Trail game, Everybody Loves Raymond, 3rd Rock From the Sun, or Third Eye Blind and Sheryl Crow songs. I'd never argue with that. I simply didn't like being told I was "supposed to" like it over something from my childhood five or ten years earlier. Ya know? ;)


P.S. I still enjoy at least reading the decade/timespan/birthspan threads. Even if I don't always have anything new to add sometimes. Very quickly, I would say a "pure Gen Y" person is 1982-1994. 1980-81, and again 1995-97 could probably squeeze in on both sides, though.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Tanya1976 on 03/18/06 at 9:07 pm


True, but people can be fans of anything. It's just like how we feel towards other people - it's kinda involuntary. We maybe can't even explain why, but we just feel a certain way about someone at times.

Now, of course, I'll totally agree just because you like the '50s doesn't mean you were a part of living it. But surely you can still be knowledgeable on the era, or listen to Elvis, or enjoy going to classic diners/malt shops and restoring old '57 T-birds.

Yes, many people do like "their" era (probably more in past generations, but many still do), but no one is under obligation to, LOL. When I was 15 in 1996 and '97, yeah I liked the Oregon Trail game, Everybody Loves Raymond, 3rd Rock From the Sun, or Third Eye Blind and Sheryl Crow songs. I'd never argue with that. I simply didn't like being told I was "supposed to" like it over something from my childhood five or ten years earlier. Ya know? ;)


P.S. I still enjoy at least reading the decade/timespan/birthspan threads. Even if I don't always have anything new to add sometimes. Very quickly, I would say a "pure Gen Y" person is 1982-1994. 1980-81, and again 1995-97 could probably squeeze in on both sides, though.


Not disagreeing with your points at all, Marty! I was just agreeing with the constant posting of similar threads.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/18/06 at 9:21 pm

^ Fair enough. :)

Yeah, I know there's alot of these kind of threads, LOL.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: ultraviolet52 on 03/18/06 at 10:48 pm


Yeah I'd say late 1982 to 1995/early '97 is Gen Y.  1994-2001 I think is the "Echo Busters", they're not totally Y because they have little or no late '90s credit but they would remember the '00s well enough.  Honest-to-God Gen Z though is people born in the '00s.  Basically, they're the first generation that's "born under a computer" rather than the '80s and early '90s kids who adapted to the digital age around age 5-18.




I'm a bit tired of the topic a bit myself, but I will say 1982 should not be part of the same generation of 1995. They are worlds apart. A kid who is born in 1995 would only be 11 years old and has experienced things in a much different light than someone from '82 would have, doncha think?

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/19/06 at 6:05 am


I'm a bit tired of the topic a bit myself, but I will say 1982 should not be part of the same generation of 1995. They are worlds apart. A kid who is born in 1995 would only be 11 years old and has experienced things in a much different light than someone from '82 would have, doncha think?


I know this topic is "hella" tired...but I really don't see somebody being born in 1998 being Y at all, they would be '10s teens and have no recollection of a pre-digital time period.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: ultraviolet52 on 03/19/06 at 11:44 am


I know this topic is "hella" tired...but I really don't see somebody being born in 1998 being Y at all, they would be '10s teens and have no recollection of a pre-digital time period.


It's okay though, I mean, hey I'm still responding in them... I guess sometimes it can just get overanalyzed. I agree about someone being born in 1998 being a different generation, yet who knows what they are. I just would also put a 1995-er in that same catagory. I don't think they belong in the Y as well. Someone born in 1992 would probably better fit the Y than anyone born after that time. It's really hard to say - So, I'm gonna stop, lol.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/20/06 at 6:26 pm


May I ask a serious question?  Why do you guys love talking about this kind of topic so much?  I was gladly on the wagon with you in the beginning, but you guys just keep going and going with it, practically beating the life out of it.  And then after that,...you go some more.  Please, I would like to know why this topic of when generations start and end, and the culture of decades interests you so much?



Well, I've been posting here for about 2 months so I haven't had time to get tired of it yet  :)

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 5:20 pm


It's okay though, I mean, hey I'm still responding in them... I guess sometimes it can just get overanalyzed. I agree about someone being born in 1998 being a different generation, yet who knows what they are. I just would also put a 1995-er in that same catagory. I don't think they belong in the Y as well. Someone born in 1992 would probably better fit the Y than anyone born after that time. It's really hard to say - So, I'm gonna stop, lol.


I think 1995 is the last Y year, based on the fact that the Boomer generation is 19 years long and that the 1990ers seem to be the Gen Y equivalent of the 1958ers.  I'd say Gen Y is *technically* 1978-1996, but 1996 is practically the first year of Y.

But whatever, we're beating a dead horse :)

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 5:42 pm


I think 1995 is the last Y year, based on the fact that the Boomer generation is 19 years long and that the 1990ers seem to be the Gen Y equivalent of the 1958ers.  I'd say Gen Y is *technically* 1978-1996, but 1996 is practically the first year of Y.

But whatever, we're beating a dead horse :)



Yeah, I guess technically Gen Y might start in 1978 but I still dont think it starts until the early 80's IMO.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 5:43 pm



Yeah, I guess technically Gen Y might start in 1978 but I still dont think it starts until the early 80's IMO.


I actually think the 1978-1981 period is shared by Gen X and Gen Y. Some people born during the period are Xers, others are Yers, depending on whether they're more into culture now or in the '90s.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/23/06 at 5:47 pm


I actually think the 1978-1981 period is shared by Gen X and Gen Y. Some people born during the period are Xers, others are Yers, depending on whether they're more into culture now or in the '90s.



Interesting -- would you consider it to be more optional, just based on the person?

I know a couple '78ers who tend to shun the '80s (partially because they do remember them, I guess) even if they liked something from 1988 when they were 10. On the other end, I'm a late '81er - definitely more tail end X in pop culture tastes, but probably more Y in personality/mindset.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 5:49 pm


Interesting -- would you consider it to be more optional, just based on the person?

I know a couple '78ers who tend to shun the '80s (partially because they do remember them, I guess) even if they liked something from 1988 when they were 10. On the other end, I'm a late '81er - definitely more tail end X in pop culture tastes, but probably more Y in personality/mindset.


Yeah, for sure. Actually, I think it's mostly based on how good your memory is.  Since you can remember the '80s really well, but aren't totally unopen to the post-1996 culture you could definitely squeeze in as both :)

The main difference between Gen X and Gen Y anyway is technological, as both gens embrace things like extreme sports, punk rock, gangsta rap (although this is more latter X), are generally indifferent to politics, etc.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/23/06 at 5:55 pm

^ Yeah. I would also think it's safe to say, both have that "suburban" experience as kids/younger teens. You know, the pizza delivery/Ninja Turtles/MTV culture, if that makes sense.

I was just thinking about this, but I've often said I only really like pop culture up to 1997, but you know what? I'm gonna put it up to 2001 now. I almost forget sometimes, how much 1998-01 stuff I like (although perhaps I've grown softer for it since it's getting a few years away now).

EDIT: You know, if someone told me I could say one thing about myself generationally with my own experience, I'd say I'm probably one of those guys who could walk into a room with a quarreling 1967er and a 1987er who each were into their own era, to get along find stuff about the other's time period to like. Just because I like some of both enough. :)

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 5:59 pm


^ Yeah. I would also think it's safe to say, both have that "suburban" experience as kids/younger teens. You know, the pizza delivery/Ninja Turtles/MTV culture, if that makes sense.

I was just thinking about this, but I've often said I only really like pop culture up to 1997, but you know what? I'm gonna put it up to 2001 now. I almost forget sometimes, how much 1998-01 stuff I like (although perhaps I've grown softer for it since it's getting a few years away now).


Yeah, 1998-2001 was okay. :)

You know what?  To me, in many ways the end of 2001 seems closer to 2006 than to the beginning of 2001.  Probably because 9/11 and me moving to another state made '01 seem like a really long year (2005 also seemed to go on forever, 2004 passed like the wind), but even though Reality, Britney Spears, South Park, etc. were all firmly placed into popular culture by 1999-2001 it still seemed in many ways more like 1996 than 2006.  The '00s really began for me in the fall of 2000 when Bush stole the election, but I'd generally place the beginning of this decade's zeitgeist around September of 2001.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:02 pm


I actually think the 1978-1981 period is shared by Gen X and Gen Y. Some people born during the period are Xers, others are Yers, depending on whether they're more into culture now or in the '90s.




Yeah the 1978-1981 period is mixed but I dont think 100% Y starts until the early 80's.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:03 pm



Yeah the 1978-1981 period is mixed but I dont think 100% Y starts until the early 80's.


Oh for sure.  Pure, 100% Gen Y imo doesn't really start until 1986.  Even 1985ers seem to have a grain of X in them.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/23/06 at 6:03 pm

^^^ Yeah, also keep in mind, 1997-late 2001 still had alot more VHS's, audio tapes (as a secondary format) and the Internet -- although basically household -- wasn't totally essential like it is now.

Even early 2002 seems more like now than it seemed like six months earlier.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:05 pm


You know what?  To me, in many ways the end of 2001 seems closer to 2006 than to the beginning of 2001.  Probably because 9/11 and me moving to another state made '01 seem like a really long year (2005 also seemed to go on forever, 2004 passed like the wind), but even though Reality, Britney Spears, South Park, etc. were all firmly placed into popular culture by 1999-2001 it still seemed in many ways more like 1996 than 2006.  The '00s really began for me in the fall of 2000 when Bush stole the election, but I'd generally place the beginning of this decade's zeitgeist around September of 2001.



Yeah, i've always felt the same way about 2001. 2000 and even up to mid-2001 had a very different atmosphere to it than 2006. I think mid-2001 was the beginning of the 00's "vibe".

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:07 pm


Oh for sure.  Pure, 100% Gen Y imo doesn't really start until 1986.  Even 1985ers seem to have a grain of X in them.



Very true. When I started high school I went with some '84ers '85ers and '86ers, and they did seem to be slightly different from us '87ers coming in(or at least my classmates).

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:09 pm



Yeah, i've always felt the same way about 2001. 2000 and even up to mid-2001 had a very different atmosphere to it than 2006. I think mid-2001 was the beginning of the 00's "vibe".


I'd say yeah.  When 9/11 happened, the attitude of the kids was very '00s.

I think "Shrek" was one of the first movies that really smacked of the Zeroes.  The music of 2001 was stuff like Aaliyah and Crazy Town, which is sort of late '90s-ish, but not totally out of the 2006 picture (you didn't have much Crunk or anything back then).

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:14 pm


I'd say yeah.  When 9/11 happened, the attitude of the kids was very '00s.

I think "Shrek" was one of the first movies that really smacked of the Zeroes.  The music of 2001 was stuff like Aaliyah and Crazy Town, which is sort of late '90s-ish, but not totally out of the 2006 picture (you didn't have much Crunk or anything back then).



Yeah, I'd say most current music really picked up in very late 2001/2002. Crazy Town had a big hit in early 2001 but were pretty much forgotten by early '02.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:15 pm



Yeah, I'd say most current music really picked up in very late 2001/2002. Crazy Town had a big hit in early 2001 but were pretty much forgotten by early '02.


"How You Remind Me", "The Anthem", and "In Da Club" really are songs that would define the sounds of their genres for the years to come.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/23/06 at 6:16 pm

Do you think pop culture would've been slightly different from now without 9/11?

Unlike, say Vietnam, there weren't/haven't been alot of "protest" songs or pop culture directly related to the event. However, I'm sure it created a change in the air in general. Perhaps a "9-11 less 2006" would be even more late 90s-ish. ;)

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:20 pm


Do you think pop culture would've been slightly different from now without 9/11?

Unlike, say Vietnam, there weren't/haven't been alot of "protest" songs or pop culture directly related to the event. However, I'm sure it created a change in the air in general. Perhaps a "9-11 less 2006" would be even more late 90s-ish. ;)



Good question. It's really hard to say. I'd think things were already heading in the current direction by 9-11-2001 but then agian after that the atmosphere kind of changed so its hard to say for sure.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:22 pm

It definitely made people more wary of TV violence, etc.  I'd imagine if 9/11 didn't happen, it would be more late '90s-ish, but Reality, Emo, etc would still be around.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:28 pm


It definitely made people more wary of TV violence, etc.  I'd imagine if 9/11 didn't happen, it would be more late '90s-ish, but Reality, Emo, etc would still be around.



No doubt things would be alot different. 2006 would probably still have a little more late 90's feel but would probably still be very "00's". Also without the 9/11 attacks there probably would have been no war on terror and without that I doubt Bush would even still be president now which would make for a very different atmosphere.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:33 pm



No doubt things would be alot different. 2006 would probably still have a little more late 90's feel but would probably still be very "00's". Also without the 9/11 attacks there probably would have been no war on terror and without that I doubt Bush would even still be president now which would make for a very different atmosphere.


Yeah, it would definitely be very different.  Not like a whole other decade, but certain trends would probably pop up that never did and others wouldn't be as big.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/23/06 at 6:48 pm


Yeah, it would definitely be very different.  Not like a whole other decade, but certain trends would probably pop up that never did and others wouldn't be as big.



I wonder if a guy like say, 50 Cent(who came up 2 years after the attacks) would have been as big without the attacks?

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 03/23/06 at 6:51 pm



I wonder if a guy like say, 50 Cent(who came up 2 years after the attacks) would have been as big without the attacks?


Interesting thought.  I think he probably would, but maybe not as much.

He really personifies the '00s a lot, because he makes a 1990s genre with a '00s glam attitude.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/23/06 at 7:00 pm

I agree that the end of 2001 seems more like now than the beginning, which was a happy-go-lucky late '90s shadowed a bit by a flailing economy, past its peak culture, and Sr. Jorge Bush.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Echo Nomad on 03/24/06 at 12:07 am


Seriously.

IMHO, I believe those that are posting are trying to justify not being part of the current times. Sorry, but you are. Yes, you missed out on the past generations, but that was the spin of the bottle. You weren't there the first time, not your fault at all. Enjoy life now!


Amen!

I know that may seem like the total opposite of something I might be expected to say. But my obsession with the topic is spurred on by the occasional comment that my life ended on in 199X or that because I was born in August of 76 that I'm expected to like only certain bands, or better yet those I went to school with have more in common with someone born in 2001 than me. I just want to be entitled to the life and times that I've lived through.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/24/06 at 12:34 pm


Yeah, it would definitely be very different.  Not like a whole other decade, but certain trends would probably pop up that never did and others wouldn't be as big.


I think probably emo would never have come into fashion. The whole thing is a focus on the unplaceable malaise, angst, sadness, and disenfranchisement that the 9/11 generation of current teens feels.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/24/06 at 1:16 pm


I think probably emo would never have come into fashion. The whole thing is a focus on the unplaceable malaise, angst, sadness, and disenfranchisement that the 9/11 generation of current teens feels.



Yeah, I kind of agree. It would still be around and maybe fairly popular but probably not as big as it is if 9/11 had not happened.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Chris MegatronTHX on 03/31/06 at 12:10 am


Amen!

I know that may seem like the total opposite of something I might be expected to say. But my obsession with the topic is spurred on by the occasional comment that my life ended on in 199X or that because I was born in August of 76 that I'm expected to like only certain bands, or better yet those I went to school with have more in common with someone born in 2001 than me. I just want to be entitled to the life and times that I've lived through.


They go round and round and round with it.  For the love of God, somebody make them stop!  They're making children cry with their neverending obsession with the difference between people born in 1973 and 1975 and people born in 1984 and 1987, and '89ers and '92ers.  And ofcourse, people born in 1968 are still walking around listening to the hit songs from 1986, the year they turned 18.  Just like the rest of us are damned to the music of hour high school or early college years.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Chris MegatronTHX on 03/31/06 at 12:13 am


Do you think pop culture would've been slightly different from now without 9/11?

Unlike, say Vietnam, there weren't/haven't been alot of "protest" songs or pop culture directly related to the event. However, I'm sure it created a change in the air in general. Perhaps a "9-11 less 2006" would be even more late 90s-ish. ;)


Vietnam War had a draft, so that was a big difference in how it affected people.  If they bring back the draft for the Iraq war, then you may hear "protest" songs and more pop culture revolving around Iraq. 

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Chris MegatronTHX on 03/31/06 at 12:23 am


True, but people can be fans of anything. It's just like how we feel towards other people - it's kinda involuntary. We maybe can't even explain why, but we just feel a certain way about someone at times.

Now, of course, I'll totally agree just because you like the '50s doesn't mean you were a part of living it. But surely you can still be knowledgeable on the era, or listen to Elvis, or enjoy going to classic diners/malt shops and restoring old '57 T-birds.

Yes, many people do like "their" era (probably more in past generations, but many still do), but no one is under obligation to, LOL. When I was 15 in 1996 and '97, yeah I liked the Oregon Trail game, Everybody Loves Raymond, 3rd Rock From the Sun, or Third Eye Blind and Sheryl Crow songs. I'd never argue with that. I simply didn't like being told I was "supposed to" like it over something from my childhood five or ten years earlier. Ya know? ;)


P.S. I still enjoy at least reading the decade/timespan/birthspan threads. Even if I don't always have anything new to add sometimes. Very quickly, I would say a "pure Gen Y" person is 1982-1994. 1980-81, and again 1995-97 could probably squeeze in on both sides, though.


I will say that regarding this topic, your posts are one of the ones I like reading, simply because you at least tend to explain and elaborate on your opinions more then others do.  But hell I don't even know why I keep coming back to this wildfire again and again.  It really is like a train wreck that is hard to look away from. 

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Marty McFly on 03/31/06 at 5:02 am


I will say that regarding this topic, your posts are one of the ones I like reading, simply because you at least tend to explain and elaborate on your opinions more then others do.  But hell I don't even know why I keep coming back to this wildfire again and again.  It really is like a train wreck that is hard to look away from. 


Thanks. And yeah, I see what you mean. If these kind of threads weren't around for awhile, I might lose interest, but I probably feel more compelled to respond when I see them alot. I also don't mind people having different opinions than me or vice versa (in a way, that's the fun of it).

Even though I enjoy 'em, I know it's one of those things you'll never get a 100% definitive answer on (i.e. even if Grunge culture hit pretty quickly, it's not like August 13th 1991 was any different than August 14th, LOL). It kinda reminds me of discussing alternate time travel scenarios for the BTTF movies, in that you could have 200 replies and still be no more sure of an answer. Even if it was interesting.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: velvetoneo on 03/31/06 at 6:03 am



Yeah, I kind of agree. It would still be around and maybe fairly popular but probably not as big as it is if 9/11 had not happened.


I think if 9/11 had not happened, stuff like the Strokes and White Stripes would've become more popular as opposed to emo and some evolution of post-grunge alternapop would've survived.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 03/31/06 at 11:40 am


Thanks. And yeah, I see what you mean. If these kind of threads weren't around for awhile, I might lose interest, but I probably feel more compelled to respond when I see them alot. I also don't mind people having different opinions than me or vice versa (in a way, that's the fun of it).

Even though I enjoy 'em, I know it's one of those things you'll never get a 100% definitive answer on (i.e. even if Grunge culture hit pretty quickly, it's not like August 13th 1991 was any different than August 14th, LOL). It kinda reminds me of discussing alternate time travel scenarios for the BTTF movies, in that you could have 200 replies and still be no more sure of an answer. Even if it was interesting.



Yeah, if threads like this totally went away I wouln't cry over it or anything but as long as there here I have no problem with posting on them. I've never actually started a generation related thread before but i've pretty much replied in everyone that's been posted since I joined so it would be a bit hypocritical for me to talk about them since I keep coming back ;)

And yes you will never ever get a definitive answer on this stuff. I mean how different is somebody born in 1987 and 1993? A million people would have different opinions on that and it also depends on the person. And since generations are pretty much just generalzations anyway there far from scientific. It's just fun to see what different people think about it so I guess thats why I keep coming back for more.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: Donnie Darko on 04/01/06 at 10:22 pm



Yeah, if threads like this totally went away I wouln't cry over it or anything but as long as there here I have no problem with posting on them. I've never actually started a generation related thread before but i've pretty much replied in everyone that's been posted since I joined so it would be a bit hypocritical for me to talk about them since I keep coming back ;)

And yes you will never ever get a definitive answer on this stuff. I mean how different is somebody born in 1987 and 1993? A million people would have different opinions on that and it also depends on the person. And since generations are pretty much just generalzations anyway there far from scientific. It's just fun to see what different people think about it so I guess thats why I keep coming back for more.


Same here :)  I'm not asking for the answer, I'm here to hear people's opinions.  Because after all, the "answer" is really created by the sum of people's opinions anyways.

Subject: Re: Generation Y theories according to Wikipedia

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 04/02/06 at 5:55 pm


Same here :)  I'm not asking for the answer, I'm here to hear people's opinions.  Because after all, the "answer" is really created by the sum of people's opinions anyways.



Exactly :)

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