Gangster Rap isn't dead.  50 Cent?  That guy seems Gangster.

Eminem actually started in the second half of 1998.

Gangster Rap isn't dead.  50 Cent?  That guy seems Gangster.

Eminem actually started in the second half of 1998.




I would say today's rap in a way is gangster, but I do think it's a somewhat different genre than the gangsta rap from the era of The Chronic and California Love, like how hair metal is sort of a even more glammy version of the arena rock of the '70s.  I would say that if Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eazy E, and Ice Cube were the Boston, Foreigner, and Styx of gangsta rap than 50 Cent, Nelly, and Eminem would be the Def Leppard, Guns n Roses and Poison of gangsta rap.  Lil Wayne, D4L, etc. would be like the Wingers and Slaughters.

I would say today's rap in a way is gangster, but I do think it's a somewhat different genre than the gangsta rap from the era of The Chronic and California Love, like how hair metal is sort of a even more glammy version of the arena rock of the '70s.  I would say that if Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eazy E, and Ice Cube were the Boston, Foreigner, and Styx of gangsta rap than 50 Cent, Nelly, and Eminem would be the Def Leppard, Guns n Roses and Poison of gangsta rap.  Lil Wayne, D4L, etc. would be like the Wingers and Slaughters.


I think 50 cent is a phony gangster.

I think 50 cent is a phony gangster.


No, I think 50's actually "real"  ;D

No, I think 50's actually "real"  ;D


Lol, I've seen him in numerous interviews and he definitely doesn't seem like the same "In Da Club" guy when they talk to him. He wasn't shot 9 times either, I heard it was actually 2 times that barely hit him. His whole story is pretty questionable. D4L- lol they are so far from gangsters or real rappers. Thank God I think they will be a 1 hit wonder.

Lol, I've seen him in numerous interviews and he definitely doesn't seem like the same "In Da Club" guy when they talk to him. He wasn't shot 9 times either, I heard it was actually 2 times that barely hit him. His whole story is pretty questionable. D4L- lol they are so far from gangsters or real rappers. Thank God I think they will be a 1 hit wonder.


Hmmm.  ???  I would actually musically respect 50 Cent more if he actually was a gangster, as odd as that sounds.  Obviously he'd be a more dislikeable person, but hip hop is about being yourself and if he actually was the guy he claimed to be his raps might be interesting. 

I would say today's rap in a way is gangster, but I do think it's a somewhat different genre than the gangsta rap from the era of The Chronic and California Love, like how hair metal is sort of a even more glammy version of the arena rock of the '70s.  I would say that if Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Eazy E, and Ice Cube were the Boston, Foreigner, and Styx of gangsta rap than 50 Cent, Nelly, and Eminem would be the Def Leppard, Guns n Roses and Poison of gangsta rap.  Lil Wayne, D4L, etc. would be like the Wingers and Slaughters.


VERY good analogy.

VERY good analogy.


*pats self on back*

Donnie Darko/velvotoneo/Donnie Darko/velvotoneoDonnie Darko/velvotoneo...

I see a pattern emerging...maybe you guys should get your own board?  :D

No, that's the sort of thing we need. More people who frequent the board like you.

But it seems you have a valid point about the evlution of rap.

Donnie Darko/velvotoneo/Donnie Darko/velvotoneoDonnie Darko/velvotoneo...

I see a pattern emerging...maybe you guys should get your own board?  :D

No, that's the sort of thing we need. More people who frequent the board like you.

But it seems you have a valid point about the evlution of rap.


It's velvetoneo, bubbele.

We're somewhat similar, 16-year old wikipedians with a keen interest in the '80s and pop culture history.

Like him or not...Jeff Gordon. Same for Tony Stewart who won the USAC Triple Crown in 1995 and the Indy Racing League championship in 1997..then entered what is now Nextel Cup in 1999, ruffling some feathers along the way, but hey, that's "Smoke" for ya.

AOL
MSN
NetZero(?)

and the Dodge Neon, although the look has changed from the original 'smiling' front grille and headlights.

Hmmm.  ???  I would actually musically respect 50 Cent more if he actually was a gangster, as odd as that sounds.  Obviously he'd be a more dislikeable person, but hip hop is about being yourself and if he actually was the guy he claimed to be his raps might be interesting. 


Would you say that '90s and very late '80s rap had that authenticity to it? Not that I was really a fan or anything, but you get the idea that's really how those guys lived, and they were being reflective and not trying to be cool for the sake of being cool (which is the very thing glam rap seems to be)?

Tupac for instance, had been shot and been arrested for various things, and he only was 25 when he died. I don't really care for his lifestyle or his music, but yeah, I'd say he was real, so I respect him there.

That style of gangsta rap was more popular from about 1989-96. 1997-98 was a bit more old school and kind of a slower period. 1999-01 was more early Eminem and rap/metal, and 2002+ is the glam rap era. In a way, I'd consider the bling bling stuff pretending to be more bad*ss than it really is on the same level as Ashlee Simpson trying to be "rock" or cussing in her songs. When you try too hard, it just comes off as silly. Then again, that can all be traced back to Vanilla Ice in 1991. ;D

lol, well, with Jerry Springer in the mid to late 90's his stuff appeared believable, now it simply is a freakfest and you can't believe the show for one minute. I guess it's something I've grown out of, but I'll chime in here and there just to see if it's changed at all or how freaky people are (or are acting to be).


Yeah LOL, the sound effects (i.e. the bell) and random stuff the audience yells out (i.e. "Go to Oprah" or "Take it off!") are stupid.

Even though it was equally wild in its, say 1996-99 heyday, there was still a semblence of talk and you got the impression Jerry actually cared about the guests. Of course, I don't watch it that much anymore, but it's like almost purposely over the edge now from what I can tell.

He's actually a nice, very smart guy (I think anyone who reads his bio will probably change their mind about him and maybe the show too) so it's kinda unfortunate that he'll only be remembered for this.

Yeah LOL, the sound effects (i.e. the bell) and random stuff the audience yells out (i.e. "Go to Oprah" or "Take it off!") are stupid.

Even though it was equally wild in its, say 1996-99 heyday, there was still a semblence of talk and you got the impression Jerry actually cared about the guests. Of course, I don't watch it that much anymore, but it's like almost purposely over the edge now from what I can tell.

He's actually a nice, very smart guy (I think anyone who reads his bio will probably change their mind about him and maybe the show too) so it's kinda unfortunate that he'll only be remembered for this.


I used to watch daytime talk and schlock fairly frequently back then, stuff like these mid-day "news edition" broadcasts at 1:00 PM focused on scandalous news for housewives. The '90s definitely had that element to it of finding all this exaggerated drama in everyday life.

Would you say that '90s and very late '80s rap had that authenticity to it? Not that I was really a fan or anything, but you get the idea that's really how those guys lived, and they were being reflective and not trying to be cool for the sake of being cool (which is the very thing glam rap seems to be)?

Tupac for instance, had been shot and been arrested for various things, and he only was 25 when he died. I don't really care for his lifestyle or his music, but yeah, I'd say he was real, so I respect him there.

That style of gangsta rap was more popular from about 1989-96. 1997-98 was a bit more old school and kind of a slower period. 1999-01 was more early Eminem and rap/metal, and 2002+ is the glam rap era. In a way, I'd consider the bling bling stuff pretending to be more bad*ss than it really is on the same level as Ashlee Simpson trying to be "rock" or cussing in her songs. When you try too hard, it just comes off as silly. Then again, that can all be traced back to Vanilla Ice in 1991. ;D


I think some of the gangsta rap was "real".  You definitely had your share of "bling bling" stuff during the 1989-1996 period, but at least the rappers didn't really talk about making money and their bling bling, and least not as much.  Rather, they were portraying the ugliness of the streets through their music, which I'm not a fan of but at least some of it is "real", unlike the rap of today which I don't even consider true gangsta rap for that reason.

I think some of the gangsta rap was "real".  You definitely had your share of "bling bling" stuff during the 1989-1996 period, but at least the rappers didn't really talk about making money and their bling bling, and least not as much.  Rather, they were portraying the ugliness of the streets through their music, which I'm not a fan of but at least some of it is "real", unlike the rap of today which I don't even consider true gangsta rap for that reason.
Someone who always came off as real was the late Tupac Shakur...

I think some of the gangsta rap was "real".  You definitely had your share of "bling bling" stuff during the 1989-1996 period, but at least the rappers didn't really talk about making money and their bling bling, and least not as much.  Rather, they were portraying the ugliness of the streets through their music, which I'm not a fan of but at least some of it is "real", unlike the rap of today which I don't even consider true gangsta rap for that reason.


Agree with you (as typical). :)

I just thought of this now, but do you think "gangsta" rap (in the loosest sense of the word, since true gangsta stuff probably died around 1999) shares a certain similarity with grunge? Not in the music per se, but there was another thread where we discussed the idea that so much of today's rock is still grunge-ish, because everybody is trying to make another Nevermind - fulfilling the legacy that Nirvana started and didn't get the chance to finish when Kurt died.

Perhaps because alot of the "real"/iconic gangsta rappers like Tupac and Biggie Smalls are no longer with us, so much of today's rap is just a second rate copy of that stuff (kinda like Nickelback and Incubus being a second rate Pearl Jam, etc)?

I have to think if more of them had lived, we (when I say we, I mean the general record buying public) would've grown tired of it more naturally, and rap would be a bit different by today, if not faded altogether. I'd still say 1988-97 are the peak "rap" years and always will be.

Probably as a whole, 1995ish was where it was at the midpoint of "old school" and "new" school.

Agree with you (as typical). :)

I just thought of this now, but do you think "gangsta" rap (in the loosest sense of the word, since true gangsta stuff probably died around 1999) shares a certain similarity with grunge? Not in the music per se, but there was another thread where we discussed the idea that so much of today's rock is still grunge-ish, because everybody is trying to make another Nevermind - fulfilling the legacy that Nirvana started and didn't get the chance to finish when Kurt died.

Perhaps because alot of the "real"/iconic gangsta rappers like Tupac and Biggie Smalls are no longer with us, so much of today's rap is just a second rate copy of that stuff (kinda like Nickelback and Incubus being a second rate Pearl Jam, etc)?

I have to think if more of them had lived, we (when I say we, I mean the general record buying public) would've grown tired of it more naturally, and rap would be a bit different by today, if not faded altogether. I'd still say 1988-97 are the peak "rap" years and always will be.

Probably as a whole, 1995ish was where it was at the midpoint of "old school" and "new" school.


Yeah, there's definitely a similarity in that they both died, and both musically were sort of back-to-basics and "street" in a way. I think rap as an art form, lyrically, anyway, seriously declined after the mid-'90s. Now, it's either vaguely musically interesting commercial hip-hop or skanky glam rap like Lil' Jon.

Agree with you (as typical). :)

I just thought of this now, but do you think "gangsta" rap (in the loosest sense of the word, since true gangsta stuff probably died around 1999) shares a certain similarity with grunge? Not in the music per se, but there was another thread where we discussed the idea that so much of today's rock is still grunge-ish, because everybody is trying to make another Nevermind - fulfilling the legacy that Nirvana started and didn't get the chance to finish when Kurt died.

Perhaps because alot of the "real"/iconic gangsta rappers like Tupac and Biggie Smalls are no longer with us, so much of today's rap is just a second rate copy of that stuff (kinda like Nickelback and Incubus being a second rate Pearl Jam, etc)?

I have to think if more of them had lived, we (when I say we, I mean the general record buying public) would've grown tired of it more naturally, and rap would be a bit different by today, if not faded altogether. I'd still say 1988-97 are the peak "rap" years and always will be.

Probably as a whole, 1995ish was where it was at the midpoint of "old school" and "new" school.


I definitely think so.  You know how they say that if somebody dies violently they'll become a ghost (whether you believe that or not)?  I think that's sort of what happened with the '90s; it died prematurely multiple times during the decade, and thus its afterwash continues to "haunt" the zeroes.  Also, people have a knack to worship the dead, so seeing Kurt and Tupac as "dated" would seem blasphemous to some, and also make the musicians cool in a whole new way.

Again, I do think the zeroes are a distinct period from the 1990s, I just don't think the styles of the '90s have ever really left us.  They are both a new decade and a 10-year continuation of the nineties at the same time.

I definitely think so.  You know how they say that if somebody dies violently they'll become a ghost (whether you believe that or not)?  I think that's sort of what happened with the '90s; it died prematurely multiple times during the decade, and thus its afterwash continues to "haunt" the zeroes.  Also, people have a knack to worship the dead, so seeing Kurt and Tupac as "dated" would seem blasphemous to some, and also make the musicians cool in a whole new way.

Again, I do think the zeroes are a distinct period from the 1990s, I just don't think the styles of the '90s have ever really left us.  They are both a new decade and a 10-year continuation of the nineties at the same time.


Yeah, that makes alot of sense...when something dies prematurely (esp. twice) people try to keep emulating it. In that way the '90s is like the '60s, which died a premature death with Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin dying, along with several others, and so the '70s was haunted by the '60s, like the '00s is haunted by the '90s.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense...when something dies prematurely (esp. twice) people try to keep emulating it. In that way the '90s is like the '60s, which died a premature death with Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin dying, along with several others, and so the '70s was haunted by the '60s, like the '00s is haunted by the '90s.


That's true huh?  I never though about those '60s deaths, but yeah that's right.  Also, the Beatles disbanded in 1970, which is in a way also a "death".  I definitely think the '90s/'00s parallels the '60s/'70s relation; they're both different decades with different atmospheres but they have huge similarities and run-ins.

Kurt and Tupac died in the middle of the decade, so it's not really the same.

That's true huh?  I never though about those '60s deaths, but yeah that's right.  Also, the Beatles disbanded in 1970, which is in a way also a "death".  I definitely think the '90s/'00s parallels the '60s/'70s relation; they're both different decades with different atmospheres but they have huge similarities and run-ins.


And the concert in Gimme Shelter, the movie, was always seen as the death of the '60s in a big way. The '60s died more than the '70s or the '80s, people just moved on from those decades and respectively put away their white sparkly suits and feather earrings. I think it took about ten years after those deaths to totally move onto the '80s and put those deaths away. I agree with that, both are different decades with different atmospheres but blend into each other pretty well. Though I do think the early-mid '70s is what makes it blend into the '60s and the late '90s for the '00s is a bridge.

Kurt and Tupac died in the middle of the decade, so it's not really the same.


Yes and no, but I see what you mean.

1969-70 was sort of the absolute peak of "60s" culture, much the way 1993-94 was the absolute peak of "90s" culture (well, Tupac died in '96, but his style had been around a few years by then). That's the era all these respective musicians died in.

I definitely think so.  You know how they say that if somebody dies violently they'll become a ghost (whether you believe that or not)?  I think that's sort of what happened with the '90s; it died prematurely multiple times during the decade, and thus its afterwash continues to "haunt" the zeroes.  Also, people have a knack to worship the dead, so seeing Kurt and Tupac as "dated" would seem blasphemous to some, and also make the musicians cool in a whole new way.

Again, I do think the zeroes are a distinct period from the 1990s, I just don't think the styles of the '90s have ever really left us.  They are both a new decade and a 10-year continuation of the nineties at the same time.


Definitely. If you want to think of an even more recent example, perhaps Aaliyah's death in '01 (she wasn't a 100% household name, but famous enough to be well known) also is another reason tons of balladic pop music has that stripped down/R&Bish feel.

You know, I have a feeling the '70s would've been a bit different musically if it weren't for Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin's death, and the breakup of the Beatles. I think the wave of hard rock and metal would've hit sooner. It's easy sometimes to forget this because it's kinda "oldies" now, but some late '60s music rocked pretty hard. Even a classic, well known song like "Born to Be Wild" - I mean, for 1968 that was heavy.

Definitely. If you want to think of an even more recent example, perhaps Aaliyah's death in '01 (she wasn't a 100% household name, but famous enough to be well known) also is another reason tons of balladic pop music has that stripped down/R&Bish feel.

You know, I have a feeling the '70s would've been a bit different musically if it weren't for Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin's death, and the breakup of the Beatles. I think the wave of hard rock and metal would've hit sooner. It's easy sometimes to forget this because it's kinda "oldies" now, but some late '60s music rocked pretty hard. Even a classic, well known song like "Born to Be Wild" - I mean, for 1968 that was heavy.


Yeah I agree, I think that's part of why the '70s were in some ways a "new sixties", people missed the real decade so they continued embracing its culture, just like how the '00s embraces the culture of the pre-end of the world '90s. 

I do remember when Aaliyah died too, my gosh that seems like a long time ago. 

People often say the infamous triple rock deaths (not forgetting Brian Jones in '69) as well as a spate of rock deaths following...Ronnie Van Zandt of Lynyrd Skynrd, Marc Bolan of T-Rex, numerous others in the early 70s...'ended the hippie' culture. Sure, they were figureheads for the youth of their generation, but hardly could have been responsible for 'ending' the 60s as such.

Yeah I agree, I think that's part of why the '70s were in some ways a "new sixties", people missed the real decade so they continued embracing its culture, just like how the '00s embraces the culture of the pre-end of the world '90s. 

I do remember when Aaliyah died too, my gosh that seems like a long time ago. 


According to my parents ('70s teenagers and a pretty reliable source) people didn't stop forgetting the '60s and still playing '60s music until like 1976-1977 when disco hit big. In alot of ways, people missed the '60s in the '70s more than the '90s in the '00s. And Lisa Lopes dying from TLC is another well-known death of a '90s superstar.

According to my parents ('70s teenagers and a pretty reliable source) people didn't stop forgetting the '60s and still playing '60s music until like 1976-1977 when disco hit big. In alot of ways, people missed the '60s in the '70s more than the '90s in the '00s. And Lisa Lopes dying from TLC is another well-known death of a '90s superstar.


You know, I was thinking about it and I wonder if perhaps the 60s influence was around as late as 1975ish because no one was really sure what direction rock would end up taking. It was still new enough as a whole to be kinda "unpredictable".

Heck, there was a thought among some people that Disco was killing off rock and roll. It seems hard to fathom since that was a good 20 years after Elvis and such (i.e. so it should've been "secure" as a genre), but maybe it was still seen as a long fad at the time. Maybe it took the MTV era to really erase the '60s generation.

In many ways (not just musically and pop culturally), 1982 almost seems more in common with today than it does with, say 1969.