*Cross my heart I'll keep this one short!* ;)

In some respects, I think the nonstop coverage of the OJ Simpson trial kinda preceded 24-hour a day cable channels like Fox News which are popular now. I remember it just being on all the time and it was literally a daily topic of conversation.

This was also the swing year for talk shows, where a bigger demand for controversy and ratings started pushing simple and more serious shows into the background. This was when I first knew about Ricki Lake, who was like the first really youth-oriented talk show host (in some ways, she and her show in general defined the culture of the time. It just screams Nineties, with the slang and fashion, etc). Even if by coincidence, what happened with Jerry Springer fits into this very well. Before this point, it was serious or just average day to day shows, coinciding more with his professional persona as a news anchor beforehand. Although when a couple altercations happened, the producers decided to slowly gear it to a more youthful and controversial side to save it from being cancelled. I think all these things signal a point where culture broke alot of ties they had with the '80s up through 1993.

I'd say 1994 has some more "modernness" since it was also probably the first year where most people at least kinda knew about the Internet, with its earliest use among the general population. I wonder if that's part of the reason for this change, because it made information so much more widespread and accessible to people?

speaking of Ricki Lake...I found a bunch of short clips from her talkshow...the topics were hilarious and made me laugh. I have never seen so many mullets on audience members...in my lifetime! ;D ;D

*Cross my heart I'll keep this one short!* ;)

In some respects, I think the nonstop coverage of the OJ Simpson trial kinda preceded 24-hour a day cable channels like Fox News which are popular now. I remember it just being on all the time and it was literally a daily topic of conversation.

This was also the swing year for talk shows, where a bigger demand for controversy and ratings started pushing simple and more serious shows into the background. This was when I first knew about Ricki Lake, who was like the first really youth-oriented talk show host (in some ways, she and her show in general defined the culture of the time. It just screams Nineties, with the slang and fashion, etc). Even if by coincidence, what happened with Jerry Springer fits into this very well. Before this point, it was serious or just average day to day shows, coinciding more with his professional persona as a news anchor beforehand. Although when a couple altercations happened, the producers decided to slowly gear it to a more youthful and controversial side to save it from being cancelled. I think all these things signal a point where culture broke alot of ties they had with the '80s up through 1993.

I'd say 1994 has some more "modernness" since it was also probably the first year where most people at least kinda knew about the Internet, with its earliest use among the general population. I wonder if that's part of the reason for this change, because it made information so much more widespread and accessible to people?


The non-stop coverage of the OJ Trial was during the majority of 1995 (January to October). So perhaps you meant 1995 and not 1994?

*Cross my heart I'll keep this one short!* ;)

In some respects, I think the nonstop coverage of the OJ Simpson trial kinda preceded 24-hour a day cable channels like Fox News which are popular now. I remember it just being on all the time and it was literally a daily topic of conversation.

This was also the swing year for talk shows, where a bigger demand for controversy and ratings started pushing simple and more serious shows into the background. This was when I first knew about Ricki Lake, who was like the first really youth-oriented talk show host (in some ways, she and her show in general defined the culture of the time. It just screams Nineties, with the slang and fashion, etc). Even if by coincidence, what happened with Jerry Springer fits into this very well. Before this point, it was serious or just average day to day shows, coinciding more with his professional persona as a news anchor beforehand. Although when a couple altercations happened, the producers decided to slowly gear it to a more youthful and controversial side to save it from being cancelled. I think all these things signal a point where culture broke alot of ties they had with the '80s up through 1993.

I'd say 1994 has some more "modernness" since it was also probably the first year where most people at least kinda knew about the Internet, with its earliest use among the general population. I wonder if that's part of the reason for this change, because it made information so much more widespread and accessible to people?


You have a point but I think it really started with the William Kennedy Smith rape trial because CourtTv started because of this trial. The live coverage of the trial from the court room, the really bad attempt to distort the woman's face... remember how the blob would move for no reason at all?

Both Phil and Oprah who were both highly respected talk show hosts at the time both felt pressure of the new harder-hitting "controversial" talk shows. They also started to do more scandalous topics to keep viewers. Oprah made a turn and Phil eventually retired though... leaving Rikki, Jerry, Sally Jesse and Jenny Jones to duke it out. 

Rikki and Jerry stayed on top (for tooo long). 
Jenny Jones had that murder controversy surrounding her show and eventually faded away.
And Sally Jesse just grew bitter towards the end. Then, one day, she too was gone.

Thankfully Oprah returned to the feel good, improve your life, learn something topics that made her famous in the first place. Sometimes she walks too safe a line like when she interviewed a man who was incarcerated for murdering his wife. She interviewed him in prison. I remember watching that interview and wishing she would go harder on him because I felt she lobbed him some soft questions.

But all in all I love Oprah so I don't judge too harshly!

^ Aww I like Ricki though, she was fun, cute and I think made those kind of shows palatable to a young audience. She had a good serious side too, and especially once she became a mother she started to do more of these kinds of shows mixed in. Jerry is a really insightful nice guy, and his earlier shows were more like Donahue, etc. It's just that since his trashier ones were what made him famous, that's how everyone knows him.

I agree with Court TV though, that's a good point, I didn't think of that. Would shows like The People's Court be part of this shift too?

I was a 10 year old watching cartoons and didn't really care for talkshows  :D

"Jerry Springer", no entertainment value whatsoever. No offense, but I never saw the appeal of that show.

Fun fact: Ricki Lake is one of Deborah Gibson'd childhood friends.

^ Jerry was elected mayor of Cincinnati when he was only 33, and fought to make a difference, both locally and nationally. He was involved in antiwar protests for Vietnam, which is part of how he got into politics in the first place. He was also inspired by his parents struggle as German Jews who were holocaust survivors and treasured the freedoms America has (they fled from England to the US when he was five).

That's more than Debbie ever did lol. Although yes I agree his show is trashy, he's a respectable man if you do some research beyond what's on television.

The non-stop coverage of the OJ Trial was during the majority of 1995 (January to October). So perhaps you meant 1995 and not 1994?
Well the whole OJ thing started in 1994 with the whole Ford Bronco car chase that interrupted the Knicks-Rockets NBA Finals Game 3 telecast I think on NBC.

I read somewhere that the OJ trial in 1995 had a permenant impact in making Daytime TV soap opera's less popular than they were before. If you remember a soap opera like "All my Children" was popular in the 80's and early-mid 90's with super couples on the show like Jessie and Angie, Tad and Dixie, as well as Knowa and Julia. I feel like 1997-1998 was kinda when a soap Opera like "All My Children" kninda had its downturn in popularity though.

To go further into it I felt like 1993 was the year that talk shows took over for those sitcoms that dominated the 80's because Geraldo and Montel were pretty popular in 1993. Montel is still going though.  There was shows like "Empty Nest" and "Golden Girls" that bridge the late 80's/early 90's time period as well. Other shows like "Its A Different World" and Growing Pains went off the air in 1993 and those were shows that did bridge  late 80's/early 90's time period. Other shows like "The Cosby's" and "Who's The Boss" which were both popular thoughout the 80's went off the air in 1992.

To get back to the topic of sitcoms I know they were still popular in the 90's like stuff like ", Home Improvement, Step By Step and Family Matters after 1993 though. I remember 1993 shows kinda got more humrous in their slang like "Wings" and "Grace Under Fire" and away from that 80's type of seriousness that you saw on family sitcoms in the 80's. Even a show that was serious like "Mad About You" between characters in the show(Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt played the main characters) they had a charcter like Lisa Kudrow(who played the waitress on the show) and she was an airhead but her charcacter would bring humor to the show(sort of a dumb humor but humor.) I think "Seinfeld" is also a good example of a 90's show that went for the humor and kinda backlashed the 80's type of seriousness that you saw on shows.

"Jerry Springer", no entertainment value whatsoever. No offense, but I never saw the appeal of that show.


Montel?  He takes money from quacks and psychics and pretends to take them seriously -- he's a second-rate John "Crossing Over" Edwards, which makes him the second-biggest douche in the universe.  Oprah is only slightly more credible, hawking semi-harmless self-help books from people who aren't entirely insane.  Springer?  Ah, Springer.  Jerry Springer is the last honest talk show host on the planet.  It's pure, unadulterated trash TV.  Because Springer himself would be the first to decry his own show.  He's self-parody, he knows it, and he revels in it. 

As you wallow in the mud, think about how bad your life is.  Think about how much worse your life would have to get before you could even qualify for getting on that stage.  And medititate upon this truth:

"There, but for the Grace of God (or J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster), go I".

One cannot truly appreciate the Grace of Whomever until you've watched an entire Springer episode from start to finish, on some desolate channel at some time past midnight, and not skipping over the commercials for the 99.84% interest rate payday advance loans, phone sex, and bail bonds.

You're right -- Springer isn't entertainment.  He's enlightenment.

^ Aww I like Ricki though, she was fun, cute and I think made those kind of shows palatable to a young audience. She had a good serious side too, and especially once she became a mother she started to do more of these kinds of shows mixed in. Jerry is a really insightful nice guy, and his earlier shows were more like Donahue, etc. It's just that since his trashier ones were what made him famous, that's how everyone knows him.

I agree with Court TV though, that's a good point, I didn't think of that. Would shows like The People's Court be part of this shift too?


Rikki was cute but you're right she was generational & although I tend to like things geared for teens I just never really cared what Rikki had to say.  By the way I was a fan of Rikki when she was China Beach and first turned on the show because of that but I stopped watching it because I didn't care about the topics all that much.

With People's Court tho. I'm trying to figure out just when that resurgence occurred because I remember the original PC with Judge Joe Wapner but it was off for years and then Judge Judy started. ( I guess sort of as an off shoot from the shock talk shows) and then we have been inundated with this programming. Divorce Court, Judge Joe Brown, Texas Shoot 'em Up whatever they are called there are just too many of them now to keep up.  The only one I like (tho I don't watch it regularly) is the New People's Court -I hate Harvey Levin tho- because Marilyn Millian achieves what Judy never will.  She iscan be in your face but I don't think she's annoying about it.  Millian apeaks to make a point but Judy seems to speak just to be heard.

I read somewhere that the OJ trial in 1995 had a permenant impact in making Daytime TV soap opera's less popular than they were before. If you remember a soap opera like "All my Children" was popular in the 80's and early-mid 90's with super couples on the show like Jessie and Angie, Tad and Dixie, as well as Knowa and Julia. I feel like 1997-1998 was kinda when a soap Opera like "All My Children" kninda had its downturn in popularity though.



The reason the soaps lost viewers is because, even tho the trial could be seen on CourtTV, the networks decided to disregard their fans who didn't care about the trial and preempt the shows.... ABC ran its line up after night line.  I love GH (which is the last show in the daytime line up) but this was before Tivo and I was not staying up until 3am (ir however late it was) to catch the episode. And taping it never worked because sometimes they ran late and then your VCR only recorded half the show.  >:(

Soapnet is the best thing for soap fans (if your show airs on the channel b/c now you never have to miss the show they run it 3x during the day it after it airs on the network and then if you're lucky hold weekly marathons twice on weekends.  Soapnet is a division of ABC  and I bet enough fans have been pissed about missing their shows over the years that they finally decided to appease us!

You're right -- Springer isn't entertainment.  He's enlightenment.


um okay-

I will give you this because I rarely watch Jerry- when I surf past it I wonder how many people are real guest and how many are faking it for "fame"?

Anyway- I vividly recall one episode where Jerry was talking to racist parents about influencing kids and raising little racists....

I  believe at  least one person was on stage in his Klan costume  ;) (Honestly that's not what I remember tho...)

I remember this little girl (maybe 9 or 10) who talked about hating Jews and how the root of all evil began with Judaism or something. This lady sitting in the front row said
 
                                            "I'd like to ask this little girl a question... you seem like a sweet kid and I wonder if we were in school 
                                              together would you play with me; could we be friends?"
   
                                              The girl answered yes.

                                                The responded "Oh okay- because I'm Jewish."

                                                The kid didn't know what to do... she was embarrassed that she made such a big mistake... then I 
                                                  remember a lot of screaming after that

I often wonder what became of that girl. she would be in her mid to late 20s now.... hmm

this was back when Springer was just a little controversial but still sincere... you're right tho- he makes no excuses he knows exactly what's what... he was on the View last month saying as much.

(sorry for the multiple posts I am trying to accelerate my geek status  ;) ) 

I will give you this because I rarely watch Jerry- when I surf past it I wonder how many people are real guest and how many are faking it for "fame"?


Some of them probably are faking it.

Others, probably not so much -- and the nazis, probably not so much.  Back in the day (early-90s, before the moral hysteria of "trash TV" took hold), those whackjobs were always pretty dependable.  Oprah, Sally, and Geraldo also brought 'em on. 

On the enlightenment front, you can only achieve enlightenment through Springer by suspending disbelief.  Sure, maybe half (or even more than half?) of their guests are fake.  Wait.  What if it's less than half?  You know how stupid you think the median guy is?  Well, half of 'em are dumber than that!

Take any ten episodes of Springer.  Throw out the outliers -- the one nazi freak who's obviously for real, but too far off the deep end to relate to, and the transvestite midget who gets off on his sister's plush toys, who's too weird to relate to and you're not sure you want to believe he's real.  That leaves eight episodes.  Suppose half of those are fake -- but can you tell the "I'm cheatin' on my wife's third cousin" from the "My wife's cheatin' on my with my third cousin!" people apart?  If you can't, what does that  imply -- that you're either very bad at detecting liars, or (we'll assume that if these people were good actors, they'd be getting paid millions in Hollywood) that there really are that many people doing it with their sister's third cousin's goat.

Jerry Springer is the Rule 34 of network TV.  If the guy getting off on plush toys was real, if the transvestite was real, if the midget was real, if the dude with his sister was real, why not the guy claiming two, three, or all four at once?

So... back to my origional point.  Does it matter?  Suspend your disbelief.  Watch Springer for a week, and suspend belief in as much as you possibly can.  Watch for a second week, and this time, be as skeptical as you can about every guest.  Compare your notes from both weeks.  Whatever remains (and as the clincher:  "companies will advertise to viewers of this programme because it brings in enough paying customers to pay for the ads") will still be enough to make you thank God, "Bob", the FSM, or the deity of your choice, that but for Its grace, there go ye.

So... back to my origional point.  Does it matter?  Suspend your disbelief.  Watch Springer for a week, and suspend belief in as much as you possibly can.  Watch for a second week, and this time, be as skeptical as you can about every guest.  Compare your notes from both weeks.  Whatever remains (and as the clincher:  "companies will advertise to viewers of this programme because it brings in enough paying customers to pay for the ads") will still be enough to make you thank God, "Bob", the FSM, or the deity of your choice, that but for Its grace, there go ye.




;D  I especially like this thank God, "Bob", the FSM, or the deity of your choice, that but for Its grace, there go ye.

Like I said before though, it was the controversial, fighting shows that made Jerry Springer famous, but he didn't start that way. He was more serious in the beginning, but they had to shift the direction of the show to get ratings and save it from being cancelled.

Whenever anyone went on about how trashy or fake it was, this was always my argument to counteract it (since not that many people knew about that side of the show). I was so glad when that episode about Tweaky Dave and other homeless teens from 1993 was on YouTube because I could actually prove it, lol. Unfortunately it bit the dust from copyright claims, like so much other stuff.

With People's Court tho. I'm trying to figure out just when that resurgence occurred because I remember the original PC with Judge Joe Wapner but it was off for years and then Judge Judy started. ( I guess sort of as an off shoot from the shock talk shows) and then we have been inundated with this programming. Divorce Court, Judge Joe Brown, Texas Shoot 'em Up whatever they are called there are just too many of them now to keep up.  The only one I like (tho I don't watch it regularly) is the New People's Court -I hate Harvey Levin tho- because Marilyn Millian achieves what Judy never will.  She iscan be in your face but I don't think she's annoying about it.  Millian apeaks to make a point but Judy seems to speak just to be heard.
There's too many of them well let me help you out: Judge Mathis, Judge David Young, Judge Lynn Toller(Divorce Court) and Judge Hatchett(I think she;s divorce court too.)

I liked Mills Lane, he was on from 1999-2001 I think. He was an older guy with a shaved head, what I liked what that even though he was tough, it was in a direct way to make a point and not obnoxious like Judge Judy...who I can't stand, lol. He also had a good personality and pretty much seemed like a nice guy as well.

Did you guys see the new judge in town? His name is Judge David Young. He is very flamboyant...and I think I may have actually seen him do a "z-snap" ;D :D


http://www.judgedavidyoung.com/

Did you guys see the new judge in town? His name is Judge David Young. He is very flamboyant...and I think I may have actually seen him do a "z-snap" ;D :D


http://www.judgedavidyoung.com/


that's pretty funny.... the snap comes a mere 20 seconds into this 8 minute clip...http://youtube.com/watch?v=2TB1eBw6p1E&feature=related  plus the tag line for the show is Justice with a Snap!

that's pretty funny.... the snap comes a mere 20 seconds into this 8 minute clip...http://youtube.com/watch?v=2TB1eBw6p1E&feature=related  plus the tag line for the show is Justice with a Snap!


hahah...he's flippin' hilarious! ;D

I definitely think shows from 1994 were more modern, but at the same time they weren't. In Friends they had those huge clunky cell phones that probably haven't been seen in well over ten years.

I definitely think shows from 1994 were more modern, but at the same time they weren't. In Friends they had those huge clunky cell phones that probably haven't been seen in well over ten years.


Oh yeah, those look ANCIENT now. ;D They have those on Seinfeld too, I think Jerry had one in his apartment. I agree there were loads of "older things" like that still hanging around even as far as the early '00s, mixing in with the more current tech.