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Subject: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 01/21/16 at 12:16 am

Okay guys. You knew this was probably coming eventually, and it's here!! :D :D :D
EVERY TIME I get on here, I see people saying that 93 is either an early 90s year or a core 90s year. People were even arguing a year and a half ago over the 1993 year in the ''does anyobdy see the early 90s as darker than the late 90s?'' Some see it as the same as 1990-1992 and others see it as a core 90s year like 1994 for example. Overall I think 1993 is without question is a core 90s year. Bill Clinton got in office. X Files, Fraiser, Animaniacs, Homicide life on the Street, NYPD Blue, Rocko's modern life, The Nanny, Beavis and Butthead, Boy Meets World, Diagnosis Murder, and WWF RAW premiered on television, Hip Hop culture begun to get more and more gangster with Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre, The WWF moved away from the Hulk Hogan era into the New Generation era with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels leading the pack. The Dallas Cowboys Dynasty started, Michael Jordan retired the first time from Basketball, classic 90s films like Jurassic Park and Schindler's List came out. So yeah 1993 is a core 90s year to me. I want to know what you guys think.
JvF9pWayt2c

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 01/21/16 at 12:27 am

1993 is definitely the first year of the real 90's. Specifically March 8th of that year. It's all totally 90's from there on out.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: musicguy93 on 01/21/16 at 12:09 pm


Okay guys. You knew this was probably coming eventually, and it's here!! :D :D :D
EVERY TIME I get on here, I see people saying that 93 is either an early 90s year or a core 90s year. People were even arguing a year and a half ago over the 1993 year in the ''does anyobdy see the early 90s as darker than the late 90s?'' Some see it as the same as 1990-1992 and others see it as a core 90s year like 1994 for example. Overall I think 1993 is without question is a core 90s year. Bill Clinton got in office. X Files, Fraiser, Animaniacs, Homicide life on the Street, NYPD Blue, Rocko's modern life, The Nanny, Beavis and Butthead, Boy Meets World, Diagnosis Murder, and WWF RAW premiered on television, Hip Hop culture begun to get more and more gangster with Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre, The WWF moved away from the Hulk Hogan era into the New Generation era with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels leading the pack. The Dallas Cowboys Dynasty started, Michael Jordan retired the first time from Basketball, classic 90s films like Jurassic Park and Schindler's List came out. So yeah 1993 is a core 90s year to me. I want to know what you guys think.
JvF9pWayt2c


I still think the groundwork for the core 90s was laid out in 1992. It's not like things suddenly changed once 1993 started. In fact, I'd argue that 1992 was a bit closer to 1993 than it was to 1991. And to be honest I wouldn't group the early 90s as 1990-1992. Too much changed within that era for it to be one. I'd say 2nd half of 1991-1993 seems like a more accurate measure for the early 90s. I mean in 1993 you still had songs like this:

KP8NpPcVgBA

CV05oji5doc

I'm not saying that 1993 isn't a core 90s year, but it definitely doesn't really feel "mid 90s". Sure grunge music was at it's peak in 1993, however, grunge itself is more of an early 90s thing anyway. It began to decline in the mid 90s. So overall, I guess you can say 1993 is both an early 90s year and a core 90s year.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/21/16 at 2:07 pm

Honestly, it's an early 90s year.  What distinguishes it from 1992, however, is that it lacked the prominent late 80s influences that still lingered on during that time.  There was still a lot of hair metal on the charts in 1992, George H. W. Bush was still President, and shows like The Cosby Show, Saved By the Bell, and Cheers weren't quite over yet.  Also, a fair amount of third-party developers still made games for the NES in addition to or instead of the SNES or Genesis.  Despite all of this, mid-90s culture, while clearly starting to take form throughout 1993, especially around autumn, hadn't quite made a clear mark yet, and early 90s things were still dominant.  Gangsta rap may have broken into the mainstream, but most hip hop and pop still retained a new-jack swing style and wasn't as silkily laid back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Df9nKO_6_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbd2PBO3k6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSRMiC75Vws

Even though the 1993-1994 TV season had a bunch of huge premieres, there was still no Friends.  Pop punk, britpop, and post-grunge had not reached the mainstream yet.  The 16-bit gaming wars were still in full gear, with Sega still outmuscling Nintendo.

I'm not saying that 1993 isn't a core 90s year, but it definitely doesn't really feel "mid 90s". Sure grunge music was at it's peak in 1993, however, grunge itself is more of an early 90s thing anyway. It began to decline in the mid 90s. So overall, I guess you can say 1993 is both an early 90s year and a core 90s year.


Yep, you summed it up pretty accurately.  Once again, there seems to be terminological confusion between the 'core' and 'mid' prefixes.  1993 is really both core 90s and early 90s, but not mid-90s.  In the poll, I went with the early 90s option, only because I assume Eazy-EMAN1995 is treating core and mid synonymously.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 01/21/16 at 3:30 pm

The WWF moved away from the Hulk Hogan era into the New Generation era with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels leading the pack.

Hulk Hogan left the company to head to WCW.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Ripley on 01/21/16 at 3:41 pm

It was definitely a core year. So many great movies and albums came out that year.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/21/16 at 6:25 pm


Honestly, it's an early 90s year.  What distinguishes it from 1992, however, is that it lacked the prominent late 80s influences that still lingered on during that time.  There was still a lot of hair metal on the charts in 1992, George H. W. Bush was still President, and shows like The Cosby Show, Saved By the Bell, and Cheers weren't quite over yet. 


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/026/futuramafry.jpg

There were not any "prominent late '80s influences" in '93? So then, how is 1993 an early '90s year?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/21/16 at 6:38 pm

There were not any "prominent late '80s influences" in '93? So then, how is 1993 an early '90s year?


Uh, because its influences were predominantly early 90s, with a sizable amount of mid-90s influence from autumn out?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/21/16 at 7:22 pm


Uh, because its influences were predominantly early 90s, with a sizable amount of mid-90s influence from autumn out?


The influences you speak of were core '90s, not early '90s influences. Characters like Ren and Stimpy only first appeared on TV screens in the early '90s, they are not early '90s influences.


Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/21/16 at 8:26 pm


The influences you speak of were core '90s, not early '90s influences. Characters like Ren and Stimpy only first appeared on TV screens in the early '90s, they are not early '90s influences.


If it came out in the early 90s, especially relatively early on (considering 1990 a late 80s extension, counter to your definition), then it IS early 90s, simple as that.  It doesn't matter what was the first full sub-era that contained the fad, so long as its popularity was primarily concentrated during the immediate aftermath of its introduction.  I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/21/16 at 9:42 pm


If it came out in the early 90s, especially relatively early on (considering 1990 a late 80s extension, counter to your definition), then it IS early 90s, simple as that.  It doesn't matter what was the first full sub-era that contained the fad, so long as its popularity was primarily concentrated during the immediate aftermath of its introduction.  I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand.


1990 was not a late '80s extension, though. You are looking at the era all wrong because you were born in '92.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 01/21/16 at 9:48 pm


1990 was not a late '80s extension, though. You are looking at the era all wrong because you were born in '92.


1990-1992 is totally an 80's extension. There were hints of the 90's as far back as 1987 but they didn't take full form until March 8th, 1993. 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Jquar on 01/22/16 at 4:00 am

Michael Bolton was still considered "cool" enough to score a top 10 hit at the end of the year, so certainly that cheesiness factor of the early part of the '90s wasn't quite dead yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv5vMJKBAbo

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/22/16 at 4:16 am


Michael Bolton was still considered "cool" enough to score a top 10 hit at the end of the year, so certainly that cheesiness factor of the early part of the '90s wasn't quite dead yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv5vMJKBAbo


In fact, he had yet another pretty big hit in 1995:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbFsdWJLuo

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: musicguy93 on 01/22/16 at 12:00 pm


1990 was not a late '80s extension, though. You are looking at the era all wrong because you were born in '92.


Being a late 80s extension is not necessarily a prerequisite for an early 90s year. Sure there were some mid 90s trends introduced in 1993, however, for the most part it was an early 90s year. Same way 2003 was primarily an early 00s year. Holdovers =/= early. Look at the songs I listed. Do those sound "mid" 90s to you? By the way 1994 was the year that brought key mid 90s trends to the mainstream, such as brit-pop and the punk revival.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 01/22/16 at 2:47 pm


1990-1992 is totally an 80's extension. There were hints of the 90's as far back as 1987 but they didn't take full form until March 8th, 1993.


I notice you keep mentioning the date, so I guess I should be the first to ask... what happened on March 8, 1993?  :P

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Philip Eno on 01/22/16 at 2:51 pm


I notice you keep mentioning the date, so I guess I should be the first to ask... what happened on March 8, 1993?  :P
March 8th 1993, the Moon moved into its nearest point to Earth, called perigee, at the same time as its fullest phase of the Lunar Cycle. The Moon appears to be 14% bigger and 30% brighter than the year's other full moons. The next time these two events coincide will be in 2008.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 01/22/16 at 3:18 pm

Both. It's Core and early '90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 01/22/16 at 3:37 pm


March 8th 1993, the Moon moved into its nearest point to Earth, called perigee, at the same time as its fullest phase of the Lunar Cycle. The Moon appears to be 14% bigger and 30% brighter than the year's other full moons. The next time these two events coincide will be in 2008.


Fascinating  :o It makes sense the 2008 cultural shift was huge too. Our culture shifts according to the moon's phases.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Philip Eno on 01/22/16 at 3:41 pm


Fascinating  :o It makes sense the 2008 cultural shift was huge too. Our culture shifts according to the moon's phases.
I call it lycanthropy.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/22/16 at 8:15 pm


Being a late 80s extension is not necessarily a prerequisite for an early 90s year. Sure there were some mid 90s trends introduced in 1993, however, for the most part it was an early 90s year.


Mid '90s trends were introduced all throughout the early '90s, from 1990 to 1992. No Fear t-shirts were a mid '90s fashion trend. The influences born in 1993 were all late '90s influences.

Time does not stand still, it moves in cycles.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 01/22/16 at 8:48 pm


I call it lycanthropy.


Woof woof!!  8)  8)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 01/22/16 at 8:49 pm

I will admit, that there was some 80s influence, but overall it feels like a pure 90's year to me.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: musicguy93 on 01/22/16 at 8:54 pm


Mid '90s trends were introduced all throughout the early '90s, from 1990 to 1992. No Fear t-shirts were a mid '90s fashion trend. The influences born in 1993 were all late '90s influences.

Time does not stand still, it moves in cycles.


Lol what? This is way too trippy for me  :o

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/22/16 at 9:08 pm

The only real instance in which TheEarly90sGuy's logic makes any sense is with the early 80s.  That period was primarily dominated by things that first came out in the late 70s, but didn't rule the world until after the new decade started.  On the other hand, a lot of core 80s trends made their debut in some form during the early 80s but were really not that significant until a little later; these include IBM computers, MTV, and hair metal bands.

The 90s, on the other hand, are a completely different thing entirely.  Shows like Ren & Stimpy, Power Rangers, and Friends, as well as video games like Sonic the Hedgehog and Street Fighter II took little more than a few months to earn significant followings and often went into decline by the time the coming sub-era began.  It gives me a headache having to read TheEarly90sGuy shoving his inconsistent and irregular theory in everybody's face over and over again, especially since he acts as if it's common knowledge.  A part of me seriously wonders if he's just an alias for one of the old school board members who wants to scare people out of discussing decade sub-eras by showcasing how absurd the debates can become.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/22/16 at 9:30 pm


Lol what? This is way too trippy for me  :o


Here, I'll break it down for you:

Early '90s pop culture icons: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Al Bundy, Roseanne, Paula Abdul, Bart Simpson, MC Hammer, Zack Morris, Dwayne Wayne, Doogie Howser MD, Arsenio Hall, Technotronic, Dan Quayle

Mid '90s pop culture icons: Beavis and Butthead, Donna Martin, Martin Payne, Cypress Hill, Pearl Jam, Bill Clinton, Billy Campbell, Boyz II Men, 2pac, Notorious B.I.G., Barney the Dinosaur

Late '90s pop culture icons: The X-Files, Claudia Salinger, Rachel Green, Pinky and the Brain

Did that clear up everything?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/22/16 at 9:50 pm


The 90s, on the other hand, are a completely different thing entirely.  Shows like Ren & Stimpy, Power Rangers, and Friends, as well as video games like Sonic the Hedgehog and Street Fighter II took little more than a few months to earn significant followings and often went into decline by the time the coming sub-era began. 


Again, how would you know that when you were born in the year 1992?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/22/16 at 9:54 pm


How would you know that when you were born in the year 1992?


Honestly, I don't care.  I'll let everybody else decide if my ideas make sense.  After all, I base my perspective of the past on what I've read from others, in addition to examining things personally.  Even if I did respond to your question, it wouldn't make any difference because apparently my entire opinion is irrelevant to you, anyway.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/22/16 at 10:14 pm

I know some people are going to disagree with me on this, but I believe that 1993 is an early 90s year. Seriously, how is it a core 90s year? You've seen the Blue Jays winning the World Series, and the Bulls winning the NBA Finals in 1993. Especially when both of them were early 90s dynasties. What about TV? Cartoon Network was still in its infant years, and more people recognized Nickelodeon at the time than them.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 01/22/16 at 10:22 pm


I know some people are going to disagree with me on this, but I believe that 1993 is an early 90s year. Seriously, how is it a core 90s year? You've seen the Blue Jays winning the World Series, and the Bulls winning the NBA Finals in 1993. Especially when both of them were early 90s dynasties. What about TV? Cartoon Network was still in its infant years, and more people recognized Nickelodeon at the time than them.


Well, Bill Clinton was President of the United States, a whole bunch of iconic tv shows premiered that year, both grunge and gangsta rap were mainstream forces, and lingering 80s influences were tepid at best.  It's still predominantly an early 90s year in my opinion, due to the lack of key elements from 1994-1996, but I can definitely understand why people would separate it from 1990-1992.

Also, Cartoon Network wasn't really even that significant until the late 90s were well underway.  It took until 1997 for the channel to have more than one regular original cartoon series, and even then, it continued to be pretty dominated by old 60s and 70s cartoons until the end of the decade.  Nickelodeon, on the other hand, experienced its heyday throughout all of the 90s beginning in August 1991, though some people would also defend the early 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/22/16 at 10:27 pm


Well, Bill Clinton was President of the United States, a whole bunch of iconic tv shows premiered that year, both grunge and gangsta rap were mainstream forces, and lingering 80s influences were tepid at best.  It's still predominantly an early 90s year in my opinion, due to the lack of key elements from 1994-1996, but I can definitely understand why people would separate it from 1990-1992.

Also, Cartoon Network wasn't really even that significant until the late 90s were well underway.  It took until 1997 for the channel to have more than one regular original cartoon series, and even then, it continued to be pretty dominated by old 60s and 70s cartoons until the end of the decade.  Nickelodeon, on the other hand, experienced its heyday throughout all of the 90s beginning in August 1991, though some people would also defend the early 2000s.


Well yeah, I would just consider it as a transitional year, but it's more related to the early 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 01/22/16 at 10:52 pm

When I'd go to Europe in the summer of late 90s years and watch Cartoon Network, it was actually rather decent? I remember wishing we had that channel in Canada instead of Teletoons, which is very hit or miss. When in 2003 my parents got our illegal satellites (lol) and we could get the American Cartoon Network, I was really excited, but by then it was mostly crap. Or maybe it was just the American one that was awful. The British/Dutch Cartoon Network was really good in the late 90s though, like mid-1997/1998.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 01/23/16 at 12:36 am


I know some people are going to disagree with me on this, but I believe that 1993 is an early 90s year. Seriously, how is it a core 90s year? You've seen the Blue Jays winning the World Series, and the Bulls winning the NBA Finals in 1993. Especially when both of them were early 90s dynasties. What about TV? Cartoon Network was still in its infant years, and more people recognized Nickelodeon at the time than them.

Bulls dominated the late 90s as well. lol  ;D ;D ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 01/23/16 at 12:37 am


Again, how would you know that when you were born in the year 1992?

Maybe because infinity is knowledgeable and knows the history! Infinity's birth year has got nothing to do with that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 01/23/16 at 2:56 am


I notice you keep mentioning the date, so I guess I should be the first to ask... what happened on March 8, 1993?  :P


The premiere of Beavis and Butthead, of course! That show completely changed my life. I don't think I would of ever gotten into Punk without seeing that show.


Lol what? This is way too trippy for me  :o


The Early 90's Dude never makes any god damn sense. He thinks he knows everything about the late 90's and early 00's, too and tries to prove me wrong! Me! How dare he! He may be an early 90's guy (who makes no sense) but he'll never be half the late 90's/early 00's dude I am.


The only real instance in which TheEarly90sGuy's logic makes any sense is with the early 80s.  That period was primarily dominated by things that first came out in the late 70s, but didn't rule the world until after the new decade started.  On the other hand, a lot of core 80s trends made their debut in some form during the early 80s but were really not that significant until a little later; these include IBM computers, MTV, and hair metal bands.

The 90s, on the other hand, are a completely different thing entirely.  Shows like Ren & Stimpy, Power Rangers, and Friends, as well as video games like Sonic the Hedgehog and Street Fighter II took little more than a few months to earn significant followings and often went into decline by the time the coming sub-era began.  It gives me a headache having to read TheEarly90sGuy shoving his inconsistent and irregular theory in everybody's face over and over again, especially since he acts as if it's common knowledge.  A part of me seriously wonders if he's just an alias for one of the old school board members who wants to scare people out of discussing decade sub-eras by showcasing how absurd the debates can become.


If this is true, I'll be so disappointed. I was walking to my car once after work and I started thinking about that one debate we had with him about Betsy's Wedding and how crazy he is (sometimes, when he looses his debates, he'll start yelling about Jesus and how he has a hand in everything and that is why the early 90's are the way they are. It's the funniest) and started laughing out loud and had all these people looking at me but the humor made my day so much better. I want to believe there is a real guy just so into the early 90's that he's gone mad.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 01/23/16 at 9:31 am


Well, Bill Clinton was President of the United States, a whole bunch of iconic tv shows premiered that year, both grunge and gangsta rap were mainstream forces, and lingering 80s influences were tepid at best.  It's still predominantly an early 90s year in my opinion, due to the lack of key elements from 1994-1996, but I can definitely understand why people would separate it from 1990-1992.

Also, Cartoon Network wasn't really even that significant until the late 90s were well underway.  It took until 1997 for the channel to have more than one regular original cartoon series, and even then, it continued to be pretty dominated by old 60s and 70s cartoons until the end of the decade.  Nickelodeon, on the other hand, experienced its heyday throughout all of the 90s beginning in August 1991, though some people would also defend the early 2000s.


Actually, I think 1990 is the black sheep of the early '90s. I think it makes way more sense to label the early '90s as 1991-1993, instead of 1990-1992. 1993 is early '90s, not mid. It is core '90s though.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 9:54 am


Bulls dominated the late 90s as well. lol  ;D ;D ;D


Yeah... but I was talking about their time in their early 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 3:37 pm


Maybe because infinity is knowledgeable and knows the history! Infinity's birth year has got nothing to do with that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Thanks for the laugh.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 3:38 pm


Actually, I think 1990 is the black sheep of the early '90s. I think it makes way more sense to label the early '90s as 1991-1993, instead of 1990-1992. 1993 is early '90s, not mid. It is core '90s though.


How can '93 be an early '90s year and a core '90s year?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 3:38 pm


How can '93 be an early '90s year and a core '90s year?


Maybe because it was a transitional year from the early to core 90s?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 01/23/16 at 3:53 pm


How can '93 be an early '90s year and a core '90s year?


Maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes from  :o

2003 is early 2000s but also core 2000s, particularly the last quarter. Same with 2012.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 4:03 pm


Maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes from  :o

2003 is early 2000s but also core 2000s, particularly the last quarter. Same with 2012.


You are gravely mistaken. I do not a misunderstanding.


2003 was a year of the second earliest part of the 2000s. 2005 was the first year of the core 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 4:14 pm


You are gravely mistaken. I do not a misunderstanding.


2003 was a year of the second earliest part of the 2000s. 2005 was the first year of the core 2000s.


No, it wasn't. 2004 (honestly) was the first year of the core 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mqg96 on 01/23/16 at 4:38 pm


You are gravely mistaken. I do not a misunderstanding.


2003 was a year of the second earliest part of the 2000s. 2005 was the first year of the core 2000s.


Actually, 2004 was the first year of the core 2000's.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 4:41 pm


Actually, 2004 was the first year of the core 2000's.


What are you basing that on?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 01/23/16 at 4:44 pm

Darn! I didn't mean to derail the thread! 2004 is core 2000s to me because of GTA San Andreas, American Idiot/Boulevard of Broken, World of Warcraft Bush re-election, the Iraq War raging on, My Humps by Balck Eyed Peas, and the explosion of R&B/Hip-hop in general, first full year of Web 2.0.


But let's stay on topic and keep talking about 1993 ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mqg96 on 01/23/16 at 4:54 pm


What are you basing that on?


2003 was already the transition from early 2000's culture to core 2000's culture, so no way in hell 2004 could be an early 2000's year, by then all late 90's influences were extinct. 2004 was the absolute peak year for 6th generation gaming and movies like Mean Girls or White Chicks just scream 2000's, and kid movies like Shrek 2, Sharktale, or the Incredibles made it feel like CGI animation was the standard by then. Broadband had taken over dial-up. Ipod's started rising in popularity.Tons of late 90's shows went off the air and a lot of core 2000's shows were in full effect. Hit songs like Pink- Trouble were the beginning of core 2000's music. The 2003-2004 season was also the same year the first two major social media sites came out, known as Myspace and Facebook. Followed by Youtube and Twitter the following years. The mid 2000's was the start of the transition into the digital age.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 5:12 pm

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http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Sh2KGDLlL._UX385_.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6PwAAOSwaNBUiJtT/s-l300.jpg

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/JzAAAOSwKIpWCqts/s-l225.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Jurassic_Park_poster.jpg

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/0/02/Aladdin1992.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110706210417

http://shesgotbirds.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/snow-hipster.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QH4rQsIW7Wo/hqdefault.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jaB5-e4QL._SY300_.jpg

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/01/13/00/31/57/0113003157163_210X270.jpg

http://www.imisstheoldschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/pacifiers.jpg



'93 felt nothing like the years before it. 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 6:25 pm


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4d/73/e6/4d73e6ba6f729b65f000d2ede2466359.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/z/EGcAAOSw0HVWBrlj/$_1.JPG?set_id=880000500F

http://media.syracuse.com/post-standard/photo/2009/01/152392-standard.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZiQ856U88Mo/hqdefault.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/64/35/18/6435188bac348a7aaf19a2437cb8ea25.jpg

https://img1.etsystatic.com/036/1/7811567/il_570xN.550499191_jidw.jpg

https://img0.etsystatic.com/028/0/6319142/il_570xN.542464798_jo8h.jpg

https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/4/3/16/enhanced-buzz-24031-1365022690-18.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1993/1101930308_400.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/9a/d5/06/9ad50634ef39b7f92634f7a31e1ef8b7.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2f/61/5b/2f615b7fe6a7a1be41368e3101061684.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ab/8e/e2/ab8ee22dc4ff3f9d1564d3685446ac0c.jpg

https://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/assets/clothing/bdjktbig1.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Sh2KGDLlL._UX385_.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6PwAAOSwaNBUiJtT/s-l300.jpg

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/JzAAAOSwKIpWCqts/s-l225.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Jurassic_Park_poster.jpg

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/0/02/Aladdin1992.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110706210417

http://shesgotbirds.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/snow-hipster.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QH4rQsIW7Wo/hqdefault.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jaB5-e4QL._SY300_.jpg

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/01/13/00/31/57/0113003157163_210X270.jpg

http://www.imisstheoldschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/pacifiers.jpg



'93 felt nothing like the years before it.


Some of the stuff you mentioned went popular before 1993. Also, like I said, it's a transitional year.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 6:34 pm


Some of the stuff you mentioned went popular before 1993. Also, like I said, it's a transitional year.


Yes, but they were most popular in 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 6:45 pm


Yes, but they were most popular in 1993.


Kay. Whatever goes your boat, eh.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 01/23/16 at 9:40 pm


Kay. Whatever goes your boat, eh.


It's the truth, though, NewYorkEagle.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 01/23/16 at 10:00 pm


It's the truth, though, NewYorkEagle.


I don't really think that's the truth. Believing that one person should think the early 90s was the last good pop cultural era, seem unnecessary. Nobody's even taking you seriously with your "facts", considering that you're taking pop culture in an extremely serious matter.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 01/24/16 at 1:50 am


You are gravely mistaken. I do not a misunderstanding.


2003 was a year of the second earliest part of the 2000s. 2005 was the first year of the core 2000s.


See? You could never be an Early 00's Guy.

1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 are very much all core Y2K years with tons of mid 90's leftovers. The the real 2000's had not begun yet at all. I call these years the "what if 2000's" and with good reason, too. I could also fit them in with the 90's because of their similarities. 2003, on the other hand, is predominately a Y2K year but with many core 2000's influences. It's the only Y2K year with a huge decrease of the mid 90's leftovers and very notable core 00's elements. The other years of the Y2K era lacked the core 2000's feel of 2003. I've posted so many times educating on the early 2000's but you don't seem to absorb my great fountains of wisdom for some stubborn reason of yours. Things from 1998-2002 went through big changes in either 2003 or 2004. In 2003, the style was being created. In 2004, the culture adapted to the new style so, thanks to the transitions of 2003, 2004 felt like the first core 00's year. Go visit my early 00's education thread:

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=42764.msg3330117#msg3330117

Check out this older post of mine where I compared the early, mid and late 00's. I do quite a good job accurately describing the eras and manage to amaze myself again and again:
http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=52353.msg3305542#msg3305542

As Snoop Doggy Dogg says: yo sucka lizten 'n' lern mark azz busta.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 02/01/16 at 2:05 pm


How can '93 be an early '90s year and a core '90s year?


1991-1993: Early 1990s
1994-1997: Mid 1990s
1998-2001: Late 1990s

The core '90s are 1993-1997. 1993 represents the early portion of the decade, 1994-1996 are 100% mid, and 1997 somewhat represents the late '90s. So all three "periods" of the decade are represented in the core five year period, although 1997 has more in common with 1993 than 2001.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Bobtheplaystationguy on 02/01/16 at 4:14 pm

1993 seems like the first 100% nineties year, with both grunge and gangster rap being very popular.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: violet_shy on 02/01/16 at 5:04 pm

I'm always nostalgic about 1993, that Summer was so idyllic and perfect. I say it was very 90s because I remember that much. I would go back in a heartbeat. :\'(

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/01/16 at 8:17 pm


I don't really think that's the truth. Believing that one person should think the early 90s was the last good pop cultural era, seem unnecessary. Nobody's even taking you seriously with your "facts", considering that you're taking pop culture in an extremely serious matter.


What? I was not asking for you to see the early '90s as the last great pop cultural era. I was simply stating that shows like Beverly Hills 90210 were at their height in the spring of 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/01/16 at 8:48 pm


1993 seems like the first 100% nineties year, with both grunge and gangster rap being very popular.


1990 was the first and only 100% nineties year. '93 was when that time (the '90s) really started to unravel.

I see where you are coming from, though.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/01/16 at 10:38 pm


1990 was the first and only 100% nineties year. '93 was when that time (the '90s) really started to unravel.

I see where you are coming from, though.


My opinion:

1993 is the first year that really felt 90's.

1997 is the last year that felt absolutely core 90's.

2002 is the last year that had a strong connection to and still felt somewhat like the 90's in general (while also being Y2K).

2003 is the last year that felt any connection to the 90's at all but the link (and not to mention, the Y2K vibe) was getting weaker and weaker throughout the year.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/02/16 at 7:46 am


1993 seems like the first 100% nineties year, with both grunge and gangster rap being very popular.


Cypress Hill and Snow made rap music in 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/02/16 at 7:54 am


Cypress Hill and Snow made rap music in 1993.


Don't forgot tha topp dogg Snoop n hiz homeboy Dokta Dre.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/04/16 at 1:35 pm


My opinion:

1993 is the first year that really felt 90's.



We were a lot closer to 1999 in '93 than in '90, so I still say, 1990 contained the most '90s culture in one year.

You see, as time moves forward, we move forward with time.

In my opinion, the years 1979 to 1989 were not important years in history like 1990 was.

The cover of the paperback below says more about the winter, spring, and  summer seasons of the year 1990 than anything else does, to me.

http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/8/1806/DCD427106.jpg

The earliest seasons of 1990 were the last day and age of:

- The '80s tycoon (pre-recession days of 1990)

http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/collections/1990/images/df1990-417.gif

- The latest Indiana Jones flick being released on VHS

10RkOeiBnGE

- All things Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being the best

R541NmyDJYY

- Memorable moonwalk dance references in TV shows and movies

yRM6Q3Ey3wU

- A pretty good Summerslam event

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jRImK9kaKc/maxresdefault.jpg

- MTV having far more music programs over non-music programs

Z797uQJKAN4

- Groupies and casual music fans really going out of their way to imitate their favorite artist(s)

http://www.inthe80s.com/clothes/images/user-image-1219818910_thumb.jpg

- "Old School" rap

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ca/0d/3f/ca0d3f65a391375205859d23864df86b.jpg


The general public loves to say that 1990 was still the '80s, but "the '70s vibe of the '80s" was officially dead in 1990.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/05/16 at 12:38 am


We were a lot closer to 1999 in '93 than in '90, so I still say, 1990 contained the most '90s culture in one year.

You see, as time moves forward, we move forward with time.

In my opinion, the years 1979 to 1989 were not important years in history like 1990 was.

The cover of the paperback below says more about the winter, spring, and  summer seasons of the year 1990 than anything else does, to me.

http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/8/1806/DCD427106.jpg

The earliest seasons of 1990 were the last day and age of:

- The '80s tycoon (pre-recession days of 1990)

http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/collections/1990/images/df1990-417.gif

- The latest Indiana Jones flick being released on VHS

10RkOeiBnGE

- All things Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being the best

R541NmyDJYY

- Memorable moonwalk dance references in TV shows and movies

yRM6Q3Ey3wU

- A pretty good Summerslam event

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jRImK9kaKc/maxresdefault.jpg

- MTV having far more music programs over non-music programs

Z797uQJKAN4

- Groupies and casual music fans really going out of their way to imitate their favorite artist(s)

http://www.inthe80s.com/clothes/images/user-image-1219818910_thumb.jpg

- "Old School" rap

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ca/0d/3f/ca0d3f65a391375205859d23864df86b.jpg


The general public loves to say that 1990 was still the '80s, but "the '70s vibe of the '80s" was officially dead in 1990.


Those aren't 90's things, those are 80's things. Is Ronnie's presidency a 90's thing too? I don't know how 1998 and 1999 are so different to you. They're both years of the late 90's/early 00's Y2K era just like 2000-2003 are.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/05/16 at 2:44 am


1991-1993: Early 1990s
1994-1997: Mid 1990s
1998-2001: Late 1990s

The core '90s are 1993-1997. 1993 represents the early portion of the decade, 1994-1996 are 100% mid, and 1997 somewhat represents the late '90s. So all three "periods" of the decade are represented in the core five year period, although 1997 has more in common with 1993 than 2001.


Do you really think 1997 is more mid-90s than late 90s?  I thought you placed a lot of weight on all the teen pop bands like the Spice Girls and Hanson that were gigantic throughout the year.  Not to mention, Sean Combs, Master P, and Timbaland were the core producers in hip hop, not Dr. Dre with his then-bombing Aftermath label or the has-been Death Row Records.  Mid-90s-style eurodance was obsolete, while the mid-90s wave of alternative movements, while still relevant, were either beyond their peak or survived all the way into the early 2000s.  The biggest tv shows and video game consoles of the day were completely removed from what they were in the mid-90s.

You see, as time moves forward, we move forward with time.

That doesn't mean entire decades have to be described in terms of single-year poles.

In my opinion, the years 1979 to 1989 were not important years in history like 1990 was.

Wow, this says everything that anybody needs to know about your ridiculous theory.  I guess the Reagan Revolution and fall of the Berlin Wall were nothing but insignificant blips that were merely building up to George H. W. Bush being in his second year in office as President of the United States in 1990.

The cover of the paperback below says more about the winter, spring, and  summer seasons of the year 1990 than anything else does, to me.

http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/8/1806/DCD427106.jpg


Of course you're going to have "best of the eighties" compilation media at the chronological beginning of the new decade.  Were complete "best of the seventies" books being released at the start of 1978, which also included Woodstock, the Moon Landing, or anything else that had to do with the spirit of '69?  Did it take until January 1, 2011 instead of the turn of 2010 for "best of the 2000s" books, articles, and YouTube videos to arrive?

The earliest seasons of 1990 were the last day and age of:

- The '80s tycoon (pre-recession days of 1990)

http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/collections/1990/images/df1990-417.gif


- The latest Indiana Jones flick being released on VHS

10RkOeiBnGE


Awesome.  In 2003, the entire trilogy was released as a DVD set, so I guess we can call that an iconic part of 2000s culture as well:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y9N6Q32TL.jpg

- All things Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles being the best

R541NmyDJYY


1990 was just the height of the Ninja Turtles craze, which began in the late 80s and started to cool off before the core 90s even took off.

- Memorable moonwalk dance references in TV shows and movies

yRM6Q3Ey3wU


The moonwalk is like the iconic dance move of the 80s.  Michael Jackson's Moonwalker came out in 1989, not 1990, not to mention Back to the Future Part III was filmed in 1988 (the same time as Part II from 1989).

- A pretty good Summerslam event

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jRImK9kaKc/maxresdefault.jpg


I don't know much about wrestling, but I'm gonna guess those figures were more established in the 80s.

- MTV having far more music programs over non-music programs

Z797uQJKAN4


Same case as from August 1, 1981 to December 31, 1989.

- Groupies and casual music fans really going out of their way to imitate their favorite artist(s)

http://www.inthe80s.com/clothes/images/user-image-1219818910_thumb.jpg


As if all the hair bands and new wave groups weren't already inspiring this all throughout the 80s.

- "Old School" rap 1988 and 1989 were on the radio then]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ca/0d/3f/ca0d3f65a391375205859d23864df86b.jpg


The general public loves to say that 1990 was still the '80s, but "the '70s vibe of the '80s" was officially dead in 1990.

This "70s vibe of the '80s" that you speak of died way back in 1983.  From thereon out, the 80s were just the 80s.

I guess there's still a strong "2000s vibe" to 2016 as well, and of course by 2000s things I mean anything that represents the spirit of '99.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/05/16 at 5:27 am

This "70s vibe of the '80s" that you speak of died way back in 1983.  From thereon out, the 80s were just the 80s.

What vibe was that? ???

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/05/16 at 10:36 am


What vibe was that? ???


Stuff like this still being popular in the early 80s:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2e/5d/b6/2e5db64cbb6586c7f31b9f7d504cfc9d.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru2tsT32pHA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvqyY3muiW8

In addition to this, most of the popular culture that defined early 80s was already moderately popular in the late 70s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIJOO__jVo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=437Ld_rKM2s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgr3pvBr-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqAPVB4u9Zs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6fSEf6tnG4

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/05/16 at 11:10 am


I don't know much about wrestling, but I'm gonna guess those figures were more established in the 80s.

Yeah the Hulk Hogan/ Rock n Wrestling era is more associated with the 80s. It lasted from 1984-1992. Ironically the Reagan and H.W. Bush years!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: bchris02 on 02/05/16 at 12:23 pm


Those aren't 90's things, those are 80's things. Is Ronnie's presidency a 90's thing too? I don't know how 1998 and 1999 are so different to you. They're both years of the late 90's/early 00's Y2K era just like 2000-2003 are.


I used to agree with TheEarly90sGuy back when he used to say that everything that was the 1980s culminated in 1990.  That I agree with.  However, I don't agree that 90s culture is best represented by the early part of the decade.  There was a generational cultural shift in 1992-93 and most of what defines the '90s took place after that.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/05/16 at 3:57 pm


I used to agree with TheEarly90sGuy back when he used to say that everything that was the 1980s culminated in 1990.  That I agree with.  However, I don't agree that 90s culture is best represented by the early part of the decade.  There was a generational cultural shift in 1992-93 and most of what defines the '90s took place after that.


But then he calls those things '90's things' which makes no sense. And then there's this Bryan Adams "spirit of 90" crap he says, which also doesn't make a lick of sense. Everything that defines the 90's to me would be 1993-1997.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/05/16 at 7:17 pm


Yeah the Hulk Hogan/ Rock n Wrestling era is more associated with the 80s. It lasted from 1984-1992. Ironically the Reagan and H.W. Bush years!


I'd rather watch that than the PG garbage they put out today. ::)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/05/16 at 7:23 pm


I'd rather watch that than the PG garbage they put out today. ::)


That's the raddest era of Wrestling, though! Attitude was pretty sweet but those matches with Hulk Hogan and Nikolai Volkoff were some of the best. Nothing beats the combo of Jesse Ventura and Vince McMahon! I used to watch it with my brother and sister all the time as kids in the late 80's/early 90's.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/05/16 at 8:01 pm


That's the raddest era of Wrestling, though! Attitude was pretty sweet but those matches with Hulk Hogan and Nikolai Volkoff were some of the best. Nothing beats the combo of Jesse Ventura and Vince McMahon! I used to watch it with my brother and sister all the time as kids in the late 80's/early 90's.


Do you remember wrestling in 1995?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/05/16 at 8:42 pm


Do you remember wrestling in 1995?


Ehh, somewhat. I didn't watch too much wrestling in the mid 90's.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/05/16 at 10:44 pm


That's the raddest era of Wrestling, though! Attitude was pretty sweet but those matches with Hulk Hogan and Nikolai Volkoff were some of the best. Nothing beats the combo of Jesse Ventura and Vince McMahon! I used to watch it with my brother and sister all the time as kids in the late 80's/early 90's.

Don't forget Bobby the Brain Heenan and the late great Gorilla Monsoon.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/frsports-bucket-0001/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2015/05/08184132/Bobby-Heenan-and-Gorilla-Monsoon-Courtesy-of-WWE.com_.jpg

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/05/16 at 11:16 pm


Don't forget Bobby the Brain Heenan and the late great Gorilla Monsoon.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/frsports-bucket-0001/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2015/05/08184132/Bobby-Heenan-and-Gorilla-Monsoon-Courtesy-of-WWE.com_.jpg


How could I forget! These guys were hilarious! 1984-1992 wrestling is the raddest and baddest, if you ask me. All that was missing is the Hulk Hogan talking soap. ;D ;D ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/05/16 at 11:44 pm

From analyzing everything from this year, i would say it's mostly early 90s. I have listened to some music, played games, watched videos and even seen fashion from that year and it gives off more of early 90s vibe. Yes, Clinton was president; however, people should remember that there was a gradual change from the HW Bush administration at that time. One other thing we should know is that somethings that defined the 90s didn't exist in this year. For example, no Friends, the DKC trilogy, and even the WB network  (which later became the CW).

Here's a song from a video I'm going to list and it definitely gives off an early 90's vibe. Even the animation seems early 90s as well.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EYW7-hNXZlM

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 02/06/16 at 1:48 am


Do you really think 1997 is more mid-90s than late 90s?  I thought you placed a lot of weight on all the teen pop bands like the Spice Girls and Hanson that were gigantic throughout the year.  Not to mention, Sean Combs, Master P, and Timbaland were the core producers in hip hop, not Dr. Dre with his then-bombing Aftermath label or the has-been Death Row Records.  Mid-90s-style eurodance was obsolete, while the mid-90s wave of alternative movements, while still relevant, were either beyond their peak or survived all the way into the early 2000s.  The biggest tv shows and video game consoles of the day were completely removed from what they were in the mid-90s.


Yes, 1997 is more mid '90s than late '90s (like 70% mid '90s, 30% late '90s). I only put emphasis on the teen pop music because it clashed so much with the rest of the non-teen pop stuff. Everything that wasn't teen pop that year was exactly like the mid '90s. The Spice Girls and Hanson may have been big, but the trend was incredibly insignificant that year. It could have been seen as a fad at that time. There were so many artists and songs that were so huge that year that are so similar to the mid 1990s that it instantly puts 1997 as the same era. After all, it was the first calendar year of the late '90s. Of course it was going to be very similar to the middle part of the decade. I feel like 1994, even 1993 in some instances, was the first year that 1997 type songs could be popular on the charts. Not the teen pop stuff, but the everything else; "Fly", "One Headlight", "If You Could Only See", "I'll Be", "Honey", "Semi-Charmed Life", "How's It Gonna Be?", "Every Day Is A Winding Road", "A Change Could Do You Good", "All For You", "Go the Distance", "I Shot the Sheriff", "Your Woman", "Bitch", "Naked Eye", "Return of the Mack", "When You're Gone/Free to Decide" the list goes on and on and on.......... Conversely, I can think of numerous 1994 hit songs that would have been just as successful in 1997 ("What's the Frequency, Kenneth?", "Buddy Holly", "Zombie", "Do You Wanna Get Funky?", "Funky Melody", "I Alone", "Vasoline", "Interstate Love Song", "Basket Case", "100% Pure Love", "Flava In Ya Ear", "Juicy", "Tootsee Roll", "I Seen A Man Die", "Nuttin' But Love", "Be Happy", "Creep", "This DJ", "Here Comes the Hotstepper", "I Wanna Be Down", etc.).

You are right about the "core producers in hip-hop thing", but you have to remember that Sean Combs was a very famous person in the mid '90s as well. He produced Mary J. Blige's 1992 What's the 411? album and her 1994 My Life album. Still, his "Puff Daddy and the Family" and Biggie's "Life After Death" albums sound pretty close to mid '90s hip-hop. Master P had one hit in 1997 (his breakthrough was in 1998). Timbaland's stuff was still pretty weird back then, but compared to his aughts stuff this sounds really conventional. Mariah Carey's Butterfly album was much more similar to Daydream than Rainbow. It has a pretty vintage feel to it. It's her last album that feels truly retro. IMO the '90s Alternative rock movement was still going pretty strong that year. U2's Pop album and Third Eye Blind's Third Eye Blind, to name a couple, were pretty comfortably mid '90s in my opinion. Eurodance was not dead that year. You had Real McCoy's "One More Time", No Mercy's "Please Don't Go", Mr. President's "Coco Jamboo", and Aqua's teenybopper "Barbie Girl" and "Candyman" songs. The Aqua songs sound late '90s, but the rest sound mid. The tv shows popular in the mid '90s were still around in 1997. Friends and The X-Files, for example, saw no change in tone compared to the earlier years. Beavis and Butthead were still on the air that year, as with The Real World being on as well. Buffy the Vampire Slayer's first two seasons had a very similar vibe to My So Called Life and The X-Files due to focusing on drama, suspense, and more importantly science fiction; three really huge genres in the mid '90s for both television and film. As a matter of fact, 1992-1998 was the absolute peak of science fiction's popularity in mainstream media for the first time since the 1960's or maybe even the 1950's. I completely agree with you on the video games though.

The fashions were also totally similar. Here:

1994
https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/3/29/11/enhanced-buzz-27887-1364570051-23.jpg
https://thetrendtree.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/rg-skrit.png
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7dEWmt8usP8/maxresdefault.jpg
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/evokeuploads/2015/04/93405677.jpg
Black everything, short skirts and dresses, chunky shoes, high-waisted pants, cropped shirts, plaid, neutral colors (browns, navy, olive green, black, white, beige, burgundy)

1997
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/16/article-2757195-2163C9B400000578-892_634x628.jpg
http://img.csfd.cz/files/images/film/photos/157/935/157935981_c9afb4.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jjGL3dnWlOc/TaSC-D2Rs5I/AAAAAAAAG-Q/J_FCYZrOaL4/s1600/573707754.jpg
http://psimovie.com/images/scream-2/scr-2.jpg
Black everything, short skirts and dresses, chunky shoes, high-waisted pants, cropped shirts, plaid, neutral colors (browns, navy, olive green, black, white, beige, burgundy)....

They are very similar. Pretty much completely the same. 1997 is the same era as 1994, and a world away from 2000. Hell, even 1999 was a different era. Generation X was still very much the dominant demographic that year. This really isn't debatable.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/06/16 at 4:30 am

The Spice Girls and Hanson may have been big, but the trend was incredibly insignificant that year. It could have been seen as a fad at that time.

What?  Both Hanson and the Spice Girls had #1 singles that year (during the first half, even), and "Say You'll Be There" (#3 on Hot 100, #2 on Mainstream Top 40), "Where's the Love" (#8 on Mainstream Top 40), "2 Become One" (#4 on Hot 100, #4 on Mainstream Top 40) "I Will Come to You" (#9 on Billboard Hot 100), and "Spice Up Your Life" (#18 on Billboard Hot 100) were also huge hits, a lot more so than anything that sounded like it was inspired by Dr. Dre g-funk or TLC's CrazySexyCool.  They weren't the only teenybopper music artists to score huge, either.  The Backstreet Boys' Quit Playing Games (With My Heart) made it to #2, while "As Long As You Love Me" was also a huge airplay hit.  98 Degrees had "Invisible Man," Robyn had two #7 singles, and Savage Garden had "I Want You," which made it to #4 on the Billboard Hot 100 and topped the Mainstream Top 40 chart in spring.  Less remembered but still popular was She Moves' "Breaking All the Rules," a #16 hit on the Mainstream Top 40 near the end of the year.  No, teen pop was not as huge as it was in 1999 or 2000, but the genre still produced a ton of the biggest songs of 1997.  At the very least, it was just about as popular throughout 1997 as it was in 1998 and 2001.

There were so many artists and songs that were so huge that year that are so similar to the mid 1990s that it instantly puts 1997 as the same era. After all, it was the first calendar year of the late '90s. Of course it was going to be very similar to the middle part of the decade. I feel like 1994, even 1993 in some instances, was the first year that 1997 type songs could be popular on the charts.

I sort of took that into consideration before, but the thing is, so much of these "1993/1994-ish" type of songs could have also been very popular in 1998 and even early 1999, during which nu-metal and rap-rock were not fully established and the radio was still completely dominated by these core 90s-style alternative tracks.  A few examples:  "You Get What You Give," "Father of Mine," "Closing Time," "Special," and "It's All Been Done."  In addition to those, artists like the Goo Goo Dolls, Alanis Morissette, and Sheryl Crow remained popular into the mid-00s and all had big singles in 1998, as well - the Goo Goo Dolls had "Iris" and "Slide," Alanis Morissette had "Uninvited" and "Thank U," and Sheryl Crow had "My Favorite Mistake."

Not the teen pop stuff, but the everything else; "Fly", "One Headlight", "If You Could Only See", "I'll Be", "Honey", "Semi-Charmed Life", "How's It Gonna Be?", "Every Day Is A Winding Road", "A Change Could Do You Good", "All For You", "Go the Distance", "I Shot the Sheriff", "Your Woman", "Bitch", "Naked Eye", "Return of the Mack", "When You're Gone/Free to Decide" the list goes on and on and on.......... Conversely, I can think of numerous 1994 hit songs that would have been just as successful in 1997 ("What's the Frequency, Kenneth?", "Buddy Holly", "Zombie", "Do You Wanna Get Funky?", "Funky Melody", "I Alone", "Vasoline", "Interstate Love Song", "Basket Case", "100% Pure Love", "Flava In Ya Ear", "Juicy", "Tootsee Roll", "I Seen A Man Die", "Nuttin' But Love", "Be Happy", "Creep", "This DJ", "Here Comes the Hotstepper", "I Wanna Be Down", etc.).

I strongly disagree with most of these examples, on both sides.  I'm going to give a basic overview of each song I disagree with to say what I mean:

* "Fly" - While you could compare this to Sublime (whose self-titled album is really on the cusp of the mid and late 90s), Sugar Ray was predominantly a Y2k-era band, and this song is a perfect representation of their mainstream work, which would later include stuff like "Someday" and "When It's Over."

* "One Headlight," "If You Could Only See," "Everyday Is a Winding Road," "A Change Would Do You Good," "All for You," "When You're Gone/Free to Decide," "Bitch" - See my above comment about core 90s alternative surviving into early 1999 (and even beyond that, albeit not as popular).  In fact, with the exception of "Bitch" and "All for You," all of these songs were released on albums from 1996.

* "I'll Be" - This is more on the cusp of mid and late 90s.  I highly doubt this would have been made in 1994/1995 because it's too slickly produced.

* "Semi-Charmed Life," "How's It Gonna Be" - Like Sugar Ray, Third-Eye Blind is strictly a Y2K-era band.  They later had "Never Let You Go" and "Deep Inside of You" in 2000.  The singles from their debut album would not have sounded out-of-place in 1998 or 1999.  Nine Days' Absolutely (Story of a Girl)," released in 2000, sounds a lot like "Semi-Charmed Life."

* "Your Woman" - This is another song with production that's far too slick to fit in with the mid-90s.  Its beat sounds similar to "Say You'll Be There."

Now for the 1994 songs you think would be popular in 1997:

"What's the Frequency Kenneth?," "Buddy Holly,"  "I Alone,""Basket Case" - Guitars this heavy and distorted weren't really popular beyond 1996.  It was mostly the lighter stuff that survived through the end of the cultural 90s.

"Zombie," "Vasoline" - These especially would not have attained success in 1997.  Yes, the Cranberries had a hit at the very start of that year, but again, it was of the lighter style and not an ultra-dark grunge song.  "Vasoline" is prime early-mid-90s grunge, a movement that was dead by the time spring 1997 came.  The closest thing to a 1997 grunge hit is Blur's "Song 2," which Damon Albarn has claimed is a satire of the genre, not an homage.

"Flava in Ya Ear," "Juicy" - By the last third of 1996, Bad Boy productions were getting much shinier and glossier than their gritty mid-90s material.  Even Biggie's Life After Death album isn't this street.

"Tootsee Roll" - Miami bass was pretty much something that was present for all of the 90s, beginning in 1992.  Luke's "Raise the Roof" was popular in 1998, and even the Baha Men's "Who Let the Dogs Out" fits along perfectly with songs by groups like Tag Team.

"I Seen a Man Die," "This DJ" - Gangsta rap like this really wasn't very popular in 1997.  Death Row Records was in shambles, Dr. Dre Presents the Aftermath flopped big time, and Snoop Doggy Dogg's Tha Doggfather was met with lukewarm reception.  Sure, you did have "I Shot the Sheriff" and "C U When U Get There," but those were exceptions to the hip hop scene, which was otherwise dominated by the glam era of Bad Boy Records and eventually No Limit.

"Be Happy," "Creep," "I Wanna Be Down" - This type of pop r&b went out of style by the time 1997 arrived.  Stuff like "Don't Leave Me," "Don't Wanna Be a Player," "Steelo," "Can We," and "I Can Love You" were setting the new standard for the genre coming into the Y2K era.  As soon as "If Your Girl Only Knew" and "No Diggity" hit airwaves in late 1996, urban music started to become all about hard, trebly, syncopated rhythms instead of silky, bassy funk.

"Here Comes the Hotstepper" - The major 90s pop-reggae movement died in late 1996, after "Groovin'" in the UK and "That Girl" in the United States.  Shaggy released a new album in 1997, but it tanked badly, and he wouldn't achieve success again until he adapted to Y2K-era trends.

You are right about the "core producers in hip-hop thing", but you have to remember that Sean Combs was a very famous person in the mid '90s as well. He produced Mary J. Blige's 1992 What's the 411? album and her 1994 My Life album. Still, his "Puff Daddy and the Family" and Biggie's "Life After Death" albums sound pretty close to mid '90s hip-hop.

I already commented that mid-90s Bad Boy productions sound nothing like late 90s Bad Boy productions, not to mention Sean Combs himself was never a main performing artist until "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down."  The newer, glammier style of production began with the remix of 112's "Only You" that features Mase in his debut and became fully established throughout the late 90s.

Master P had one hit in 1997 (his breakthrough was in 1998).

"I Miss My Homies" may have only reached #27, but singles aren't always everything.  Ghetto D went to #1 on the Billboard 200 right on its release in September 1997.

Timbaland's stuff was still pretty weird back then, but compared to his aughts stuff this sounds really conventional.

I don't understand what you mean here.  His pre-Loose style was already fully developed by his mainstream breakthrough in 1996.  Songs like "If Your Girl Only Knew" and "Pony" sounded incredibly ahead of their time when they came out.

Mariah Carey's Butterfly album was much more similar to Daydream than Rainbow. It has a pretty vintage feel to it. It's her last album that feels truly retro.

It's definitely core 90s, but I find it too slickly produced to fit directly alongside Daydream.  "My All" was a #1 hit in 1998.

IMO the '90s Alternative rock movement was still going pretty strong that year. U2's Pop album and Third Eye Blind's Third Eye Blind, to name a couple, were pretty comfortably mid '90s in my opinion.

"Discotheque" is a typical slice of breakbeat techno that was popular in the late 90s.  Third Eye Blind, as I already noted, was strictly Y2K-era and in no way mid-90s.

Eurodance was not dead that year. You had Real McCoy's "One More Time", No Mercy's "Please Don't Go", Mr. President's "Coco Jamboo", and Aqua's teenybopper "Barbie Girl" and "Candyman" songs. The Aqua songs sound late '90s, but the rest sound mid.

"Please Don't Go" was only popular at the very beginning of the year, "Coco Jamboo" sounds more transitional that strictly mid, and the bubble gummy Aqua was the only eurodance act that was popular during the later months of the year.  None of these songs, besides Barbie Girl, were nearly as popular as stuff like "Be My Lover," "Another Night," and Nicki French's cover of "Total Eclipse of the Heart" were in the true mid-90s.

The tv shows popular in the mid '90s were still around in 1997. Friends and The X-Files, for example, saw no change in tone compared to the earlier years. Beavis and Butthead were still on the air that year, as with The Real World being on as well.

Did Friends and The X-Files transform dramatically in 1998?  Beavis & Butthead may have aired its last season in 1997, but King of the Hill also premiered at the beginning of the year, as did Daria and South Park later on.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer's first two seasons had a very similar vibe to My So Called Life and The X-Files due to focusing on drama, suspense, and more importantly science fiction; three really huge genres in the mid '90s for both television and film.

These things didn't disappear as the Y2K era proceeded.  Some of the biggest movies of that period included The Sixth Sense, The Matrix, and The Phantom Menace.  Deep Space Nine was still on television until mid-1999, and Babylon 5 was still airing new episodes through November 1998.

The fashions were also totally similar. Here:

1994
https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/3/29/11/enhanced-buzz-27887-1364570051-23.jpg
https://thetrendtree.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/rg-skrit.png
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7dEWmt8usP8/maxresdefault.jpg
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/evokeuploads/2015/04/93405677.jpg
Black everything, short skirts and dresses, chunky shoes, high-waisted pants, cropped shirts, plaid, neutral colors (browns, navy, olive green, black, white, beige, burgundy)

1997
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/16/article-2757195-2163C9B400000578-892_634x628.jpg
http://img.csfd.cz/files/images/film/photos/157/935/157935981_c9afb4.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jjGL3dnWlOc/TaSC-D2Rs5I/AAAAAAAAG-Q/J_FCYZrOaL4/s1600/573707754.jpg
http://psimovie.com/images/scream-2/scr-2.jpg
Black everything, short skirts and dresses, chunky shoes, high-waisted pants, cropped shirts, plaid, neutral colors (browns, navy, olive green, black, white, beige, burgundy)....


I don't think the fashions look that similar, to be honest.  The 1994 outfits are much baggier and patchier than the 1997 ones, which mostly comprise of short-sleeved collared shirts on the guys and crop tops for the women.  The men's hair is clearly shorter on average in the 1997 photos, as well.  The stuff from 1997 would not have looked outdated in 1998 or even 1999.

They are very similar. Pretty much completely the same. 1997 is the same era as 1994, and a world away from 2000. Hell, even 1999 was a different era. Generation X was still very much the dominant demographic that year. This really isn't debatable.


I'm honestly surprised by the confidence with which you say it "isn't debatable" that 1997 is mid-90s.  For one thing, it's chronologically late 90s, and it's not as different from 1998 or most of 1999 as you seem to imply.  The grungy, rebellious spirit of Generation X was out of breath by 1997, and flashy, vibrant, in-your-face, occasionally ironic, and pre-packaged media had taken over.  I certainly don't think the Spice Girls, Hanson, Mase, Savage Garden, the Backstreet Boys, or the like were targeting Generation X, and they were all some of the biggest music figures of the era.  South Park, King of the Hill, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, and 7th Heaven were all huge millennial shows that were popular in 1997, as well.  Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network both went through a lot of changes.  Of the classic Nicktoons, only Aahhh!!! Real Monsters and Rugrats were still airing new episodes, and Hey Arnold, Kablam!, Kenan & Kel, and The Angry Beavers represented the channel's core programs.  Cartoon Network now had Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken, and I Am Weasel, in addition to Dexter's Laboratory's second season.  When you factor all of these general things 1997, in combination with the 100% late 90s video gaming industry and advent of the Dot Com Boom, I think 1997 clearly fits best with the late 90s, as it just has too many jarring differences from the vast bulk of the mid-90s to be of the same era.  While I can definitely understand why somebody would say the first half of the year was still mid-90s (January was still about three quarters mid-90s, while February and the spring months were about 60% late 90s, 40% mid-90s), the subsequent summer, fall, and winter were all undoubtedly late 90s, with either only insignificant scraps of the mid-90s or things that would survive well beyond that year carrying over from the mid-90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/06/16 at 5:01 am

Agreed Arctic! 1997 was core 90s like 1994 was... but it was more late 90s though. 1997 did NOT have that Y2K vibe like 1999 did, but it's still late 90s year.
I like to separate late 1996-mid 1998 and late 1998-1999 as two mini eras.
late 1996-mid 1998: late 90s
late 1998-2001: ''Millennium era'' period

And to Infinty regarding the shows Beavis and Butthead was still more well known than South Park and King of the Hill, they came at THE VERY end of the year. That was a piss poor example. Nick was still considered to be in it's golden age in 1997. Animaniacas and Pinky and the Brain were also still on the air. Toonami HAD JUST DEBUTED, their popularity wouldn't come till later. DBZ was still in syndication. Pokemon hadn't come to America yet. Saturn was still SEGA's console (until Stolar said it wasn't their future! >:( ) X-MEN the animated series, and Spider-man were still on air. Power Rangers although on the decline was still the kids fad for the most part.

Also in sports, Michael Jordan was still THE face of NBA basketball not Kobe and Shaq who are the faces of the Y2K era Basketball, Jordan represented 90s culture regarding sports. Brett Favre was still in his prime, MLB hadn't had the home run chase between McGwire and Sosa which revived baseball.

Also, You don't think Mase and Hanson were Gen x products? ???  I'd say they were X/Y cusp products.

In 1997, the year saw new brand things had debuting and coming out, but in 1998 they reached their primes. So yeah 1997 was indeed a VERY transitional year.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/06/16 at 5:49 am


Agreed Arctic! 1997 was core 90s like 1994 was... but it was more late 90s though. 1997 did NOT have that Y2K vibe like 1999 did, but it's still late 90s year.
I like to separate late 1996-mid 1998 and late 1998-1999 as two mini eras.
late 1996-mid 1998: late 90s
late 1998-2001: ''Millennium era'' period


This is actually more how I feel about the late 90s, though I would frame the "late 90s" part as spring 1997 through winter 1998/1999, instead.  The main thing I was trying to get at was that 1997 as a whole was NOT a mid-90s year due to too many cultural shifts occurring during the 1996/1997 school year.

And to Infinty regarding the shows Beavis and Butthead was still more well known than South Park and King of the Hill, they came at THE VERY end of the year. That was a piss poor example.

Uh, no, King of the Hill premiered in January 1997, and South Park first aired in August.  They were both established programs for a good portion of the year.

Nick was still considered to be in it's golden age in 1997.

Its current shows were clearly Klasky Csupo-era though.  Ren & Stimpy and old Doug had been over for years, and Rocko's Modern Life ended the previous year.  There were a lot of newer, late 90s shows already on the channel even early in 1997.

Animaniacas and Pinky and the Brain were also still on the air.

Both of those shows were still on television throughout 1998 as well, and there were still reruns of Pinky and the Brain well after that.

Toonami HAD JUST DEBUTED, their popularity wouldn't come till later. DBZ was still in syndication.

Toonami is just as much of an early 2000s thing as a late 90s thing, if not even more so.  DBZ's peak in popularity was 2001.

Pokemon hadn't come to America yet.

Pokémon strictly represents the second half of the Y2K era, lasting for all of 2000 and much of 2001 as well.  It took until spring 1999 to really blow up in the United States.  Its American absence in 1997 doesn't really make that year un-late 90s.

Saturn was still SEGA's console (until Stolar said it wasn't their future! >:( )

The Saturn was a commercial flop and irrelevant compared to the Nintendo 64 and PlayStation.

X-MEN the animated series, and Spider-man were still on air. Power Rangers although on the decline was still the kids fad for the most part.

Past their heydays.

Also, You don't think Mase and Hanson were Gen x products? ???  I'd say they were X/Y cusp products.

Mase was all about money, money, money, just like any typical 2000s hip hop artist, while Hanson were a group of pretty faces with the same level of appeal as the Y2K era boybands and 2000s pop punk and emo groups.  Both of these acts were pretty alienating to those immersed in Gen-X culture.

In 1997, the year saw new brand things had debuting and coming out, but in 1998 they reached their primes. So yeah 1997 was indeed a VERY transitional year.

The first two thirds were definitely transitional, but that same transition had already begun with the last third of 1996, so late 90s culture had plenty of time to be established throughout most of 1997.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mqg96 on 02/06/16 at 8:02 am


Agreed Arctic! 1997 was core 90s like 1994 was... but it was more late 90s though. 1997 did NOT have that Y2K vibe like 1999 did, but it's still late 90s year.
I like to separate late 1996-mid 1998 and late 1998-1999 as two mini eras.
late 1996-mid 1998: late 90s
late 1998-2001: ''Millennium era'' period

And to Infinty regarding the shows Beavis and Butthead was still more well known than South Park and King of the Hill, they came at THE VERY end of the year. That was a piss poor example. Nick was still considered to be in it's golden age in 1997. Animaniacas and Pinky and the Brain were also still on the air. Toonami HAD JUST DEBUTED, their popularity wouldn't come till later. DBZ was still in syndication. Pokemon hadn't come to America yet. Saturn was still SEGA's console (until Stolar said it wasn't their future! >:( ) X-MEN the animated series, and Spider-man were still on air. Power Rangers although on the decline was still the kids fad for the most part.

Also in sports, Michael Jordan was still THE face of NBA basketball not Kobe and Shaq who are the faces of the Y2K era Basketball, Jordan represented 90s culture regarding sports. Brett Favre was still in his prime, MLB hadn't had the home run chase between McGwire and Sosa which revived baseball.

Also, You don't think Mase and Hanson were Gen x products? ???  I'd say they were X/Y cusp products.

In 1997, the year saw new brand things had debuting and coming out, but in 1998 they reached their primes. So yeah 1997 was indeed a VERY transitional year.


Great points. You could say that late 1996-mid 1998 was a full transitional period. The full transition from mid 90's culture to late 90's culture. Although, I still think that the 1997-98 school year was the first time late 90's culture was more dominant than mid 90's, despite there still being tons of mid 90's influences leftover like you stated. I agree with your opinion on Toonami not peaking until much later on, it wasn't really big during the Moltar era from 1997-98 when there was barely any anime on there yet, it was mostly reruns of action shows from the 80's then. It wasn't until DBZ and Sailor Moon joined Toonami around Fall 1998? when the block really got popular. I always say that 1999-2002 was the peak of CN's golden age. Michael Jordan could be associated with early & mid 90's culture, but he's pretty much the quintessential 90's basketball player, while Kobe and Shaq are Y2K although Kobe Bryant will be looked back at the top NBA player of the 2000's decade. The entire year of 1999 feels like the quintessential, ultimate year of late 90's culture to me.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/06/16 at 10:20 am


This is actually more how I feel about the late 90s, though I would frame the "late 90s" part as spring 1997 through winter 1998/1999, instead.  The main thing I was trying to get at was that 1997 as a whole was NOT a mid-90s year due to too many cultural shifts occurring during the 1996/1997 school year.

Uh, no, King of the Hill premiered in January 1997, and South Park first aired in August.  They were both established programs for a good portion of the year.

Its current shows were clearly Klasky Csupo-era though.  Ren & Stimpy and old Doug had been over for years, and Rocko's Modern Life ended the previous year.  There were a lot of newer, late 90s shows already on the channel even early in 1997.

Both of those shows were still on television throughout 1998 as well, and there were still reruns of Pinky and the Brain well after that.

Toonami is just as much of an early 2000s thing as a late 90s thing, if not even more so.  DBZ's peak in popularity was 2001.

Pokémon strictly represents the second half of the Y2K era, lasting for all of 2000 and much of 2001 as well.  It took until spring 1999 to really blow up in the United States.  Its American absence in 1997 doesn't really make that year un-late 90s.

The Saturn was a commercial flop and irrelevant compared to the Nintendo 64 and PlayStation.

Past their heydays.

Mase was all about money, money, money, just like any typical 2000s hip hop artist, while Hanson were a group of pretty faces with the same level of appeal as the Y2K era boybands and 2000s pop punk and emo groups.  Both of these acts were pretty alienating to those immersed in Gen-X culture.

The first two thirds were definitely transitional, but that same transition had already begun with the last third of 1996, so late 90s culture had plenty of time to be established throughout most of 1997.

I apologize for getting the King of the Hill premiere wrong. But Bevis and Butthead were STILL more well known than South Park was in 97.


Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain ARE NOT Y2K era cartoons they ran through much of the heart of the 90s.


Toonami wasn't the true TOONAMI until TOM got there.


Also Seinfeld was still on the air and The Simpsons was still in it's golden age in 97. Both core 90s things and NOT Y2K things.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/06/16 at 12:51 pm


I apologize for getting the King of the Hill premiere wrong. But Bevis and Butthead were STILL more well known than South Park was in 97.


South Park was a pretty big deal as soon as it premiered, though.  Its irreverent, shocking, and no-holds-barred humor struck a huge chord with audiences then, and word quickly spread of it beginning with college campuses.  It only took two years for a theatrical film to come out (Beavis & Butthead took three).  But regardless, King of the Hill and Daria were also very popular in 1997, so it's not like 1997 was completely just a Beavis & Butthead year like 1993-1996 were.

Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain ARE NOT Y2K era cartoons they ran through much of the heart of the 90s.

I don't mean to imply they're Y2K cartoons, I just see them as sort of general 90s things, similar to The Simpsons and Seinfeld, since Animaniacs premiered back in 1993, while Pinky & the Brain was just an extension of that same show, and both were still airing new episodes towards the end of the decade.  Their peaks were definitely the mid-90s, though.

Also Seinfeld was still on the air and The Simpsons was still in it's golden age in 97. Both core 90s things and NOT Y2K things.

Well, a lot of people believe The Simpsons' golden age ended in 1997 with the jumping the shark moment of The Principal and the Pauper, as well as Mike Scully becoming the new showrunner.  Even most of season 8 wasn't quite up to par with the show's best.  Both shows, like I said, are just classic 90s things, so them still being relevant definitely contributes to 1997 being a classic 90s year, but not necessarily a mid-90s one.

You have to keep in mind, too, that I'm not trying to compare 1997 to the early 2000s, because the Y2K era is not really synonymous with the early 2000s.  It's just that the second half of the Y2K era is an extremely identifiable sub-era that bridged the late 90s with the early 2000s.  I think there was actually a pretty big cultural shift during the 1998-1999 school year, which essentially ushered in the peak of "Y2K" culture, which is more associated with the 90s but clearly isn't classic 90s anymore because it's much more modern and a lot of the core 90s influences that remained put in 1997-spring 1999 were finally declining.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/06/16 at 2:19 pm


Ehh, somewhat. I didn't watch too much wrestling in the mid 90's.


It was called "The Cartoon Era" or "The New Generation" and Vince was so desperate, he brought in all these characters and thought they would get over with guys such as T.L. Hopper, Duke The Dumpster, The Goon, Bastion Booger, Mantaur and The Sultan.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/06/16 at 2:20 pm


Don't forget Bobby the Brain Heenan and the late great Gorilla Monsoon.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/frsports-bucket-0001/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2015/05/08184132/Bobby-Heenan-and-Gorilla-Monsoon-Courtesy-of-WWE.com_.jpg


So you remember Wrestling Challenge?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/06/16 at 7:11 pm


So you remember Wrestling Challenge?

I was still real little when it was still on, so I saw it on WWE on Demand 24/7 back in the day!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/07/16 at 3:03 pm


I was still real little when it was still on, so I saw it on WWE on Demand 24/7 back in the day!


That was when wrestling was an hour.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/07/16 at 4:59 pm


That was when wrestling was an hour.


Those were some sweet times. When Hogan was the king.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 02/08/16 at 1:24 am


What?  Both Hanson and the Spice Girls had #1 singles that year (during the first half, even), and "Say You'll Be There" (#3 on Hot 100, #2 on Mainstream Top 40), "Where's the Love" (#8 on Mainstream Top 40), "2 Become One" (#4 on Hot 100, #4 on Mainstream Top 40) "I Will Come to You" (#9 on Billboard Hot 100), and "Spice Up Your Life" (#18 on Billboard Hot 100) were also huge hits, a lot more so than anything that sounded like it was inspired by Dr. Dre g-funk or TLC's CrazySexyCool.  They weren't the only teenybopper music artists to score huge, either.  The Backstreet Boys' Quit Playing Games (With My Heart) made it to #2, while "As Long As You Love Me" was also a huge airplay hit.  98 Degrees had "Invisible Man," Robyn had two #7 singles, and Savage Garden had "I Want You," which made it to #4 on the Billboard Hot 100 and topped the Mainstream Top 40 chart in spring.  Less remembered but still popular was She Moves' "Breaking All the Rules," a #16 hit on the Mainstream Top 40 near the end of the year.  No, teen pop was not as huge as it was in 1999 or 2000, but the genre still produced a ton of the biggest songs of 1997.  At the very least, it was just about as popular throughout 1997 as it was in 1998 and 2001.


Here is the Billboard Hot 100 Year End list for 1997: http://longboredsurfer.com/charts/1997. In it, there are only 10 teen pop songs ("Wannabe", "Quit Playing Games With My Heart", "MMMBop", "I Want You", "Say You'll Be There", "Do You Know What It Takes", "2 Become 1", "Invisible Man", "Barbie Girl", and "Let It Go"). They clash so strongly with the rest of the songs that you can see there is a culture clash, as well as a generational one (X vs Millennial). For instance, "I Want You" is sandwiched in between "The Freshman" and "No Diggity". "Barbie Girl" is sandwiched in between "Twisted" and "When You're Gone/Free to Decide". Also, "Invisible Man" is sandwiched in between "I'm Still In Love With You" and "Not Tonight". Compare any of those teen pop songs to others such as "Go the Distance", "No Time", "Naked Eye", "I Like It", "Smile", "Change the World", "Sunny Came Home", "If It Makes You Happy", those two The Cranberries' songs, or "Bitch" and the differences are really jarring!  :o  The fact that several songs with such opposing mindsets and styles that year really make this culture clash obvious.


I sort of took that into consideration before, but the thing is, so much of these "1993/1994-ish" type of songs could have also been very popular in 1998 and even early 1999, during which nu-metal and rap-rock were not fully established and the radio was still completely dominated by these core 90s-style alternative tracks.  A few examples:  "You Get What You Give," "Father of Mine," "Closing Time," "Special," and "It's All Been Done."  In addition to those, artists like the Goo Goo Dolls, Alanis Morissette, and Sheryl Crow remained popular into the mid-00s and all had big singles in 1998, as well - the Goo Goo Dolls had "Iris" and "Slide," Alanis Morissette had "Uninvited" and "Thank U," and Sheryl Crow had "My Favorite Mistake."

"Discotheque" is a typical slice of breakbeat techno that was popular in the late 90s.  Third Eye Blind, as I already noted, was strictly Y2K-era and in no way mid-90s.


To me, the three sub eras (early, mid, and late) of the '90s are much more fluid than people let on (late '90s songs being popular in the early '90s, vice versa, etc.). We put a lot of emphasis on them being different, but the more I look into it, the more I see that it's not so simple. They are different on the surface, but they have the same "heart and soul" if you get what I mean. I get this vibe from 1991-1998.

With your above statement and mine combined, a really good example would be U2's Achtung Baby. When I first heard it, I was really surprised that it was from 1991 (this was when I was still ignorant about '90s culture). It didn't sound '80s at all! But having heard pretty much all popular tunes from the entire decade, I think this album had an enormous impact. I think the album felt current as far as 1998! If you were to release "Mysterious Ways" in 1998 instead of 1991, it would fit perfectly well with the other songs. I think U2's three '90s albums (1991's Achtung Baby, 1993's Zooropa, 1997's Pop) are an " album series" which explore the same genres of alternative rock, techno, alternative dance, and acoustic rock, only in three forms. Innovation for Achtung, Experimental for Zooropa, and (as the name implies) Pop for Pop. '90s U2 had an enormous influence on 1990's popular music that is just as big as Nirvana, but is ignored.

It is this reason why I see 1991-1998 as largely the same attitude/vibe/mindset/zeitgeist to it. Achtung Baby and Nevermind are only a couple examples of musical pieces that could have been, and probably were, popular and contemporary years after they were released in 1991.


"Be Happy," "Creep," "I Wanna Be Down" - This type of pop r&b went out of style by the time 1997 arrived.  Stuff like "Don't Leave Me," "Don't Wanna Be a Player," "Steelo," "Can We," and "I Can Love You" were setting the new standard for the genre coming into the Y2K era.  As soon as "If Your Girl Only Knew" and "No Diggity" hit airwaves in late 1996, urban music started to become all about hard, trebly, syncopated rhythms instead of silky, bassy funk.


We will have to agree to disagree with this one. While I agree that most of those songs that you mentioned were setting a new standard, I would leave "Steelo" and "I Can Love You" out of the question.  When I first heard "Steelo", I thought it was an early '90s song. It's so hardcore and intense - orchestra, prominent bass, powerful drums, steady tempo, and a funky piano - that was hip-hop soul. I can easily imagine someone like 2Pac or Biggie rapping over the whole song and the producer just sampling the chorus. It screams core '90s and Generation X at the top of its lungs from the summit of K2. That song fits better with the music of 1992 than the late '90s. Compare it to Mariah Carey's "Heartbreaker" or 702's own future hit "Where My Girls At" and they sound incredibly more modern than Steelo. To me, "I Can Love You" doesn't sound too different from Faith Evan's "You Used to Love Me" or better yet Deborah Cox's "Sentimental" -- it just doesn't innovate or stray from typical mid '90s R&B songs.

Honestly, I don't know any song that sounds like "Don't Leave Me". While progressive in its production, I don't think it started any new trends. It was just a unique song in my view. "Don't Wanna Be a Player" on the other hand definitely sounds like the catalyst for future R&B slow jams with its cowbells seemingly replacing snares and the harps replacing pianos.


Did Friends and The X-Files transform dramatically in 1998?  Beavis & Butthead may have aired its last season in 1997, but King of the Hill also premiered at the beginning of the year, as did Daria and South Park later on.


No, they didn't change vibes in 1998. I guess I read your comment wrong when you said "The biggest tv shows and video game consoles of the day were completely removed from what they were in the mid-90s." I was saying that the 1997 seasons of Friends and The X-Files didn't see any change in tone, but I didn't say what happened afterwards. Both of those shows didn't really start to shift in tone until the early 2000's, when Monica got engaged to Chandler and Dana got together with Fox. You are right about the other shows.


I don't think the fashions look that similar, to be honest.  The 1994 outfits are much baggier and patchier than the 1997 ones, which mostly comprise of short-sleeved collared shirts on the guys and crop tops for the women.  The men's hair is clearly shorter on average in the 1997 photos, as well.  The stuff from 1997 would not have looked outdated in 1998 or even 1999.


I will admit that those pictures weren't the best representations of how similar the fashions were. They were just the easiest to find. I do think you have to give some credit to the first two pictures on the 1994 and 1997 ones though. I would try harder and put more effort into looking up pictures and videos, but it's too late right now.


I'm honestly surprised by the confidence with which you say it "isn't debatable" that 1997 is mid-90s.  For one thing, it's chronologically late 90s, and it's not as different from 1998 or most of 1999 as you seem to imply.  The grungy, rebellious spirit of Generation X was out of breath by 1997, and flashy, vibrant, in-your-face, occasionally ironic, and pre-packaged media had taken over.  I certainly don't think the Spice Girls, Hanson, Mase, Savage Garden, the Backstreet Boys, or the like were targeting Generation X, and they were all some of the biggest music figures of the era.  South Park, King of the Hill, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, and 7th Heaven were all huge millennial shows that were popular in 1997, as well.  Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network both went through a lot of changes.  Of the classic Nicktoons, only Aahhh!!! Real Monsters and Rugrats were still airing new episodes, and Hey Arnold, Kablam!, Kenan & Kel, and The Angry Beavers represented the channel's core programs.  Cartoon Network now had Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken, and I Am Weasel, in addition to Dexter's Laboratory's second season.  When you factor all of these general things 1997, in combination with the 100% late 90s video gaming industry and advent of the Dot Com Boom, I think 1997 clearly fits best with the late 90s, as it just has too many jarring differences from the vast bulk of the mid-90s to be of the same era.  While I can definitely understand why somebody would say the first half of the year was still mid-90s (January was still about three quarters mid-90s, while February and the spring months were about 60% late 90s, 40% mid-90s), the subsequent summer, fall, and winter were all undoubtedly late 90s, with either only insignificant scraps of the mid-90s or things that would survive well beyond that year carrying over from the mid-90s.


I know that the teen pop was aimed at Millennials, I'm talking about the non teen pop stuff. The fact that "Candle in the Wind", "Un-Break My Heart", "I Believe I Can Fly", "I'll Be Missing You", and "Don't Let Go (Love)" were the biggest singles of 1997 say that Generation X was still "in power" that year. If it wasn't those ten teen pop songs that I had mentioned, it was usually mid '90s-sounding songs. I honestly do think that Mase was aimed primarily at Generation X, as his style of hip-hop is still very old school. It was east coast style (a gen x trend) and featured heavy samples of old songs. Hip hop has also always been about materialism and status. Many '80s and early and mid '90s hip hop songs had that. Millennial hip hop artists and music actually stopped the sampling, and styles were more southern instead. The "hip-hop for Millennials" is harsher and less melodic, while Generation X hip-hop was more musical and simplistic, even acoustic at times.

Other than that, I agree with the cartoons and such, and the rebellious vibe of the mid '90s being dead by 1997 is debatable (I think it was still relevant then). Regardless, I still think 1997 is way more like 1994 than it is like 2000 or even 1999. It was a period of change and transition.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/08/16 at 6:24 am


Here is the Billboard Hot 100 Year End list for 1997: http://longboredsurfer.com/charts/1997. In it, there are only 10 teen pop songs ("Wannabe", "Quit Playing Games With My Heart", "MMMBop", "I Want You", "Say You'll Be There", "Do You Know What It Takes", "2 Become 1", "Invisible Man", "Barbie Girl", and "Let It Go"). They clash so strongly with the rest of the songs that you can see there is a culture clash, as well as a generational one (X vs Millennial). For instance, "I Want You" is sandwiched in between "The Freshman" and "No Diggity". "Barbie Girl" is sandwiched in between "Twisted" and "When You're Gone/Free to Decide". Also, "Invisible Man" is sandwiched in between "I'm Still In Love With You" and "Not Tonight". Compare any of those teen pop songs to others such as "Go the Distance", "No Time", "Naked Eye", "I Like It", "Smile", "Change the World", "Sunny Came Home", "If It Makes You Happy", those two The Cranberries' songs, or "Bitch" and the differences are really jarring!  :o  The fact that several songs with such opposing mindsets and styles that year really make this culture clash obvious.


Once again, you're forgetting that adult ballads and alternative rock remained popular well beyond just 1997.  "Sunny Came Home," for example, sounds a ton like Ashlee Simpson's "Pieces of Me" from 2004.  Either way, of course the teen pop was going to clash with the rock.  It's not like all alternative rock suddenly sounded like Hanson in 1998-2001, either.  Also, since when is "No Diggity" a mid-90s-style track?

To me, the three sub eras (early, mid, and late) of the '90s are much more fluid than people let on (late '90s songs being popular in the early '90s, vice versa, etc.). We put a lot of emphasis on them being different, but the more I look into it, the more I see that it's not so simple. They are different on the surface, but they have the same "heart and soul" if you get what I mean. I get this vibe from 1991-1998.

There are definitely certain underlying similarities across the board.  In fact, certain types of music were popular during all three sub-eras.  New-jack swing had some presence in pop pretty much the whole decade, and the type of classic 90s alternative you've been describing as mid-90s was actually already huge in the early 90s, beginning in late 1992 with songs like "All I Want," "Constant Craving," and "Always the Last to Know." before proceeding with megahits such as "Two Princes" and "Runaway Train;" like I said, it was still relevant through about the mid-2000s.

With your above statement and mine combined, a really good example would be U2's Achtung Baby. When I first heard it, I was really surprised that it was from 1991 (this was when I was still ignorant about '90s culture). It didn't sound '80s at all! But having heard pretty much all popular tunes from the entire decade, I think this album had an enormous impact. I think the album felt current as far as 1998! If you were to release "Mysterious Ways" in 1998 instead of 1991, it would fit perfectly well with the other songs. I think U2's three '90s albums (1991's Achtung Baby, 1993's Zooropa, 1997's Pop) are an " album series" which explore the same genres of alternative rock, techno, alternative dance, and acoustic rock, only in three forms. Innovation for Achtung, Experimental for Zooropa, and (as the name implies) Pop for Pop. '90s U2 had an enormous influence on 1990's popular music that is just as big as Nirvana, but is ignored.

Indeed, U2 were a pretty interesting group throughout the 90s.  They were going through an identity crisis, trying to reinvent the wheel constantly in order to remain as cutting edge as they were in 1987.  Some of the results were surprisingly effective, like Achtung Baby, while others were a little cheesy.

It is this reason why I see 1991-1998 as largely the same attitude/vibe/mindset/zeitgeist to it. Achtung Baby and Nevermind are only a couple examples of musical pieces that could have been, and probably were, popular and contemporary years after they were released in 1991.

You're definitely on to something here.  As much as the early, mid, and late 90s all have such identifiable unique personalities, they're all still 90s periods at heart, so there's certainly some overlap between all of them.

We will have to agree to disagree with this one. While I agree that most of those songs that you mentioned were setting a new standard, I would leave "Steelo" and "I Can Love You" out of the question.  When I first heard "Steelo", I thought it was an early '90s song. It's so hardcore and intense - orchestra, prominent bass, powerful drums, steady tempo, and a funky piano - that was hip-hop soul. I can easily imagine someone like 2Pac or Biggie rapping over the whole song and the producer just sampling the chorus. It screams core '90s and Generation X at the top of its lungs from the summit of K2. That song fits better with the music of 1992 than the late '90s. Compare it to Mariah Carey's "Heartbreaker" or 702's own future hit "Where My Girls At" and they sound incredibly more modern than Steelo.

I don't think "Steelo" would have been popular beyond 1998, but it was still very different from mid-90s pop urban.  Its beat is a lot more in-your-face than something like "Creep" or "I Wanna Be Down," which make me want to kick off my socks and lounge on my sofa.  I especially don't understand how the track sounds early 90s, though.  Had it been made back then, it would have more of a new-jack swing rhythm and probably been lighter and more upbeat, rather than heavy and urban.

To me, "I Can Love You" doesn't sound too different from Faith Evan's "You Used to Love Me" or better yet Deborah Cox's "Sentimental" -- it just doesn't innovate or stray from typical mid '90s R&B songs.

Seriously?  Its beat is about as Y2K as you can get.  There's no laid-back, bassy funk to it at all, but rather frantic, trebly, shuffling percussion rhythms.  It fits perfectly alongside anything that Timbaland produced around that time.

Honestly, I don't know any song that sounds like "Don't Leave Me". While progressive in its production, I don't think it started any new trends. It was just a unique song in my view. "Don't Wanna Be a Player" on the other hand definitely sounds like the catalyst for future R&B slow jams with its cowbells seemingly replacing snares and the harps replacing pianos.

It's ironic that you mention both songs in that paragraph because I actually think "Don't Leave Me" and "Don't Wanna Be a Player" sound quite alike in their production.  They're similarly paced and have that same "cha-ka-cha, ka" rhythm throughout.  But both songs fit in with the straight-sequenced, syncopated, percussive nature of late 90s and early 2000s urban music that was lacking in the funky mid-90s.

I will admit that those pictures weren't the best representations of how similar the fashions were. They were just the easiest to find. I do think you have to give some credit to the first two pictures on the 1994 and 1997 ones though. I would try harder and put more effort into looking up pictures and videos, but it's too late right now.

Like you said regarding U2 in the 90s, fashion in the 90s was actually pretty fluid to some degree.  In fact, the biggest differences between the early 90s and the Spice Girls/Puff Daddy/Master P late 90s are the fact that the early 90s still had a lot of 80s-ish styles carrying over like neon clothing, permed hair, and eraser tops, whereas the late 90s did not.  However, you could still find somebody will curtain hair or a flannel shirt in 1992, as well as 1998.  There was definite overlap between the eras.

I know that the teen pop was aimed at Millennials, I'm talking about the non teen pop stuff. The fact that "Candle in the Wind", "Un-Break My Heart", "I Believe I Can Fly", "I'll Be Missing You", and "Don't Let Go (Love)" were the biggest singles of 1997 say that Generation X was still "in power" that year. If it wasn't those ten teen pop songs that I had mentioned, it was usually mid '90s-sounding songs.

I actually don't think any of the songs you listed, aside perhaps from "Don't Let Go (Love)" distinctly represent the mid-90s.  "I Believe I Can Fly" sounds more on the cusp on mid and late because its production is notably posher than stuff from his 1995 self-titled album like "I Can't Sleep Baby (If I)."  "Un-Break My Heart" actually strikes me as more late 90s because of its more synthesized backdrop (as opposed to crashing snares like a lot of mid-90s ballads) and use of acoustic guitars, which make it sound quite similar to Mariah Carey's "My All," a #1 song in mid-1998.

More like general 90s songs, as well as plenty of late 90s-leaning hip hop and r&b.  There are plenty of singles of those genera from that list that sound comfortably late 90s, in my opinion, such as "You Make Me Wanna," "I Belong to You (Every Time I See Your Face)," "Mo' Money Mo Problems," "G.H.E.T.T.O.U.T.," "4 Seasons of Loneliness" (which sounds a lot more electronic than Boyz II Men's earlier work), "My Love Is the Shhh!," "Up Jumps Da Boogie," "Pony," "Gotham City," "What About Us," and "You Should Be Mine (Don't Waste Your Time)."  One of the biggest songs of 1997, which isn't on this list due to not being a commercially released single, is Will Smith's "Men in Black," which topped both the Hot 100 Airplay and Rhythmic Top 40 charts, as well as making it to #2 on the Mainstream Top 40.  Sure, it may sound distinctly classic 90s, but Will Smith as a solo artist (not as The Fresh Prince) was one of the most significant rappers of the late 90s, remaining popular all the way through the new millennium on the heels on "Wild, Wild West" and "Will 2K."

I honestly do think that Mase was aimed primarily at Generation X, as his style of hip-hop is still very old school. It was east coast style (a gen x trend) and featured heavy samples of old songs.

Those aren't really Generation-X distinguishers.  The East Coast was pretty much the dominant center of hip hop throughout the millennial era and early 2000s, during which artists like Jay-Z, DMX, and Fabolous were really popular.  Plenty of hip hop songs from the early 2000s sampled older classics, like Jay-Z's "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)," for example.

Hip hop has also always been about materialism and status. Many '80s and early and mid '90s hip hop songs had that. Millennial hip hop artists and music actually stopped the sampling, and styles were more southern instead. The "hip-hop for Millennials" is harsher and less melodic, while Generation X hip-hop was more musical and simplistic, even acoustic at times.

By the time 1997 arrived, however, hip hop started to become glossier and more pre-packaged than it ever had in the past.  I wouldn't necessarily describe Generation X hip hop as "more musical and simplistic," especially by the mid-90s, when the lyrics were a lot more violent and rebellious and the production sounded menacing.

Other than that, I agree with the cartoons and such, and the rebellious vibe of the mid '90s being dead by 1997 is debatable (I think it was still relevant then). Regardless, I still think 1997 is way more like 1994 than it is like 2000 or even 1999. It was a period of change and transition.

I think 1997 is a lot different from 1994, though.  1994 still had a large amount of early 90s influences throughout.  Contemporary r&b didn't start to fully adopt that laid-back funk until around the last third of the year, when things like Brandy's self-titled debut and TLC's CrazySexyCool came out, and there was still a ton of new-jack swing on the charts that year, such as "You Want This," "Stay," "Misled," and "If You Go."  Grunge was also in its commercial peak.  Nickelodeon was still in the midst of its golden era, Friends only just premiered, and shows like Sabrina, the Teenage Witch, King of the Hill, and 7th Heaven weren't on television yet.  Almost nobody in 1994, besides the most hardcore of nerds, knew about or used the Internet (Netscape came out that year, but Internet Explorer was still a year away), whereas by 1997, it was a rapidly growing trend that constantly made headline news stories.  I can understand comparing the year more to 1994 than 2000 or 1999 because it was clearly still a classic 90s year, which 2000 and 1999 were not, but within the whole 90s decade, I think its an exaggeration to call it the "exact same era" as 1994.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/08/16 at 2:56 pm


Those were some sweet times. When Hogan was the king.


and you also had The Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man Randy Savage and the Undertaker.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: yelimsexa on 02/09/16 at 8:04 am

Overall, a core/mid-90s year, but with the pre-summer months being the last vestiges of the early '90s. Michael Jackson began the year fresh from his Dangerous tour/album along with a memorable Super Bowl Halftime Show performance, and ended the year being known as a child molester and "Wacko Jacko" and seen as yesterday's news. We started the year buying floppy disk (smaller than the '80s ones, but still floppies) for PC games, and ended with CD-ROM. Spring 1993 had a TMNT movie, while summer brought Jurassic Park. Myst, Doom, and Mortal Kombat were about as '90s as you could get with regard to video games.

But overall, like I mentioned in a post on the '80s board with that decade, I like to divide the mid-90s into two-sub eras, with the summer of 1995 (when AOL started to air commercials nationally, Windows 95's release, along with the Sega Saturn and the PlayStation launching the fifth generation of video games) diving the two (and perhaps the '90s in general), ending in the spring of 1997. The former still progresses away from the '80s and the early '90s, while the later looks towards the end of the '90s/21st century thanks to the tech/global ethics/sensationalist culture along with the coming of age of the earliest Millennials. 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 02/09/16 at 12:30 pm


But overall, like I mentioned in a post on the '80s board with that decade, I like to divide the mid-90s into two-sub eras, with the summer of 1995 (when AOL started to air commercials nationally, Windows 95's release, along with the Sega Saturn and the PlayStation launching the fifth generation of video games) diving the two (and perhaps the '90s in general), ending in the spring of 1997. The former still progresses away from the '80s and the early '90s, while the later looks towards the end of the '90s/21st century thanks to the tech/global ethics/sensationalist culture along with the coming of age of the earliest Millennials.


I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think the mid '90s is divided into two parts - it's all one coherent era. 1994 is completely different from the '80s, but the 1994-1997 period as a whole fits well with the early '90s. 1997 has more in common with 1993 than 2001. I also disagree with the earliest Millennials coming of age in the mid '90s. The oldest Millennials (1982) were 15 in 1997, and that's when things began to change (although it was still core '90s). Both core '80s and core '90s cultures are 100% Generation X eras, while Millennials didn't start coming in until teen pop. They didn't start becoming a genuinely significant demographic until about 1998 or more comfortably 1999.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/10/16 at 11:41 am


I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't think the mid '90s is divided into two parts - it's all one coherent era. 1994 is completely different from the '80s, but the 1994-1997 period as a whole fits well with the early '90s. 1997 has more in common with 1993 than 2001. I also disagree with the earliest Millennials coming of age in the mid '90s. The oldest Millennials (1982) were 15 in 1997, and that's when things began to change (although it was still core '90s). Both core '80s and core '90s cultures are 100% Generation X eras, while Millennials didn't start coming in until teen pop. They didn't start becoming a genuinely significant demographic until about 1998 or more comfortably 1999.



Yep!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: ArcticFox on 02/15/16 at 1:49 am


I strongly disagree with most of these examples, on both sides.  I'm going to give a basic overview of each song I disagree with to say what I mean:


I respect your opinion, but there are many statements below that don't click in my mind. I find it incredibly fascinating that what is seen as completely reasonable and normal to one person can really sit badly with someone else.

* "Fly" - While you could compare this to Sublime (whose self-titled album is really on the cusp of the mid and late 90s), Sugar Ray was predominantly a Y2k-era band, and this song is a perfect representation of their mainstream work, which would later include stuff like "Someday" and "When It's Over."

* "One Headlight," "If You Could Only See," "Everyday Is a Winding Road," "A Change Would Do You Good," "All for You," "When You're Gone/Free to Decide," "Bitch" - See my above comment about core 90s alternative surviving into early 1999 (and even beyond that, albeit not as popular).  In fact, with the exception of "Bitch" and "All for You," all of these songs were released on albums from 1996.


"Fly" is much richer than the rest of their hit singles. It's true that that song was much poppier than the other songs on the album it belonged to, but the composition is more diverse than Sugar Ray's future hits. "Every Morning", "Someday", and "When It's Over" are just a hybrid of pop rock and alternative hip-hop, while "Falls Apart" is a bit more alternative rock with a surf vibe. "Fly" on the other hand mixes reggae fusion with acoustic rock, funk metal, hip-hop, and ska. Mixing of genres was not uncommon in the mid '90s.

As for the second paragraph, I didn't understand where you were coming from. Were you agreeing with me? As a matter of fact, "When You're Gone/Free to Decide" is actually a great example of 1997 hits that could have been big in 1993. They both don't sound too different from "Linger".

* "I'll Be" - This is more on the cusp of mid and late 90s.  I highly doubt this would have been made in 1994/1995 because it's too slickly produced.

* "Your Woman" - This is another song with production that's far too slick to fit in with the mid-90s.  Its beat sounds similar to "Say You'll Be There."


1994 had plenty of slickly produced songs. "Do You Wanna Get Funky", "Funky Melody", "Living In Danger", and "100% Pure Love" are very polished and tightly composed. Speaking of which, "Say You'll Be There" has a more similar beat to "Do You Wanna Get Funky", but it's softer and less intense. "Your Woman" doesn't sound slick and polished at all. The beats are totally mid '90s; they sound very similar, almost exactly the same, as Coolio's "Fantastic Voyage". Other obvious similarities are the grimy synthesizers and the deep bass. White Town even said himself that he made that song on really old equipment, so it's no wonder that it sounds 1994-ish.

Now for the 1994 songs you think would be popular in 1997:

This is going to be fun!

"What's the Frequency Kenneth?," "Buddy Holly,"  "I Alone,""Basket Case" - Guitars this heavy and distorted weren't really popular beyond 1996.  It was mostly the lighter stuff that survived through the end of the cultural 90s.

"If You Could Only See" and "Bitch" have pretty distorted synthesizers. The former actually has pretty heavy guitars. Both of their music videos especially prove my point. The fashions would are exactly what people in 1994 were wearing. As in: Not different from My So Called Life and Party of Five.

"Closing Time" is a 1998 song that has pretty heavy guitars, though not too distorted.

"Zombie," "Vasoline" - These especially would not have attained success in 1997.  Yes, the Cranberries had a hit at the very start of that year, but again, it was of the lighter style and not an ultra-dark grunge song.  "Vasoline" is prime early-mid-90s grunge, a movement that was dead by the time spring 1997 came.  The closest thing to a 1997 grunge hit is Blur's "Song 2," which Damon Albarn has claimed is a satire of the genre, not an homage.

They absolutely would have had success in 1997. Once again, "If You Could Only See" is an obvious example. However, the biggest pieces of evidence are Alanis Morissette's "Uninvited" and Live's "Lankini's Juice". Both of these are ridiculously angry, dark, heavy, and very, very, very intense. Also, "Vasoline" is just a general core '90s song, not strictly belonging in the early, mid, or late category because the song features latin percussions, giving it a more diverse feel than most grunge songs. This was not uncommon in the '90s.

"Tootsee Roll" - Miami bass was pretty much something that was present for all of the 90s,beginning in 1992.  Luke's "Raise the Roof" was popular in 1998, and even the Baha Men's "Who Let the Dogs Out" fits along perfectly with songs by groups like Tag Team.

I'm not so sure about this. 2 Live Crew released a song called "Me So Horny" in 1989 which became a hit reaching #26 on the USA pop charts. A year later they released "Banned in the U.S.A." which hit even higher at #20. Other than that I don't see any other Miami Bass songs becoming hits until 1993 when it became an actual trend. I will need proof supporting that above statement.

"Be Happy," "Creep," "I Wanna Be Down" - This type of pop r&b went out of style by the time 1997 arrived. As soon as "If Your Girl Only Knew" and "No Diggity" hit airwaves in late 1996, urban music started to become all about hard, trebly, syncopated rhythms instead of silky, bassy funk.

Honestly, I think you're exaggerating how much "No Diggity" changed the game. The way you say it makes it seem like the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" of the urban community. The only thing that makes it really distinct is the really loud cymbal that occurs every time the drum machine reaches the snare. I still consider it mid '90s. It has pianos, black male group vocals, a rapper or two, a hip-hop beat, and yes, bassy funk. It does not sound too different from New Edition's "Hit Me Off", and they both have the exact same tempo at 89 beats per minute. They both would have found success in 1993 and maybe even 1992.

I already commented that mid-90s Bad Boy productions sound nothing like late 90s Bad Boy productions, not to mention Sean Combs himself was never a main performing artist until "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down."  The newer, glammier style of production began with the remix of 112's "Only You" that features Mase in his debut and became fully established throughout the late 90s.

See my above response involving Foxy Brown.

It's definitely core 90s, but I find it too slickly produced to fit directly alongside Daydream.  "My All" was a #1 hit in 1998.

I actually think either one of two things: a) That Daydream is pretty tightly produced compared to most of the music at the time, or the more viable option b) Butterfly isn't that polished. When I first heard "Honey" I thought it was pretty hardcore and gritty. Those synthesizers have a growl to them, the bass is deep, and the drums are loud. "Butterfly" and "My All" could fit in well with the mid '90s as well. I think their span would have been 1994-1998.

I'm honestly surprised by the confidence with which you say it "isn't debatable" that 1997 is mid-90s.  For one thing, it's chronologically late 90s, and it's not as different from 1998 or most of 1999 as you seem to imply.

I know that, I'm not stupid. I only said it wasn't debatable because I know what I'm talking about. It's not out of ignorance of what happened during that decade, I made my decision based on everything that I have observed, studied, and analyzed over a period of almost two years and I came to the conclusion that 1994 and 1997 are one and the same. Because I have put so much time and effort in my opinion, I have absolutely no reason to change it. I do, however, find it incredibly fun to debate though (which is what I'm doing right now!).



Once again, you're forgetting that adult ballads and alternative rock remained popular well beyond just 1997.  "Sunny Came Home," for example, sounds a ton like Ashlee Simpson's "Pieces of Me" from 2004.  Either way, of course the teen pop was going to clash with the rock.  It's not like all alternative rock suddenly sounded like Hanson in 1998-2001, either.  Also, since when is "No Diggity" a mid-90s-style track?


Really? I don't think "Sunny Came Home" sounds like "Pieces of Me" at all! I actually think that is one of the most perfect examples of a 1997 song that would have easily been popular in 1994! First of all, it's a folk rock song, while "Pieces of Me" is a pop rock tune. The lyrical content is also very contrasting: "Sunny" is a very dark song about a woman who decides to abandon her past and even burn down her house because she was a victim of physical abuse. "Pieces" is light and airy and has no lyrical depth - it''s just pop. The banjos don't do anything to make it sound 2000's at all. Folk music was one of the most ridiculed genres in the 2000's, everyone made fun of it. It was really popular in the '90s and came back in the 2010s. Contemporary Folk had it's roots in the 1960's which is when it became really popular. There is no way that "Sunny" would have been popular in the 2000's.

There are definitely certain underlying similarities across the board.  In fact, certain types of music were popular during all three sub-eras.  New-jack swing had some presence in pop pretty much the whole decade, and the type of classic 90s alternative you've been describing as mid-90s was actually already huge in the early 90s, beginning in late 1992 with songs like "All I Want," "Constant Craving," and "Always the Last to Know." before proceeding with megahits such as "Two Princes" and "Runaway Train;" like I said, it was still relevant through about the mid-2000s.

Yes, but those three songs were much lighter and more jangly compared to the alt-rock of the mid '90s. I could even include "I Touch Myself" as within that category if I wanted to. The only thing that distinguishes that song from the rest is the slightly gated drums.

I don't think "Steelo" would have been popular beyond 1998, but it was still very different from mid-90s pop urban.  Its beat is a lot more in-your-face than something like "Creep" or "I Wanna Be Down," which make me want to kick off my socks and lounge on my sofa.  I especially don't understand how the track sounds early 90s, though.  Had it been made back then, it would have more of a new-jack swing rhythm and probably been lighter and more upbeat, rather than heavy and urban.

It's ironic that you mention both songs in that paragraph because I actually think "Don't Leave Me" and "Don't Wanna Be a Player" sound quite alike in their production.  They're similarly paced and have that same "cha-ka-cha, ka" rhythm throughout.  But both songs fit in with the straight-sequenced, syncopated, percussive nature of late 90s and early 2000s urban music that was lacking in the funky mid-90s.


I agree with "I Wanna Be Down", definitely not "Creep". The latter is definitely not a song to chill out to. It is clearly meant for dancing and playing at parties, as with "Steelo".

I don't think "Don't Leave Me" would have been popular beyond 1998. It sounds very different from the more boring and uninspired ballads of 1999-2001. 2002 is also the year ballads completely died, as well as R&B dying off and being completely replaced by "Hip-Hop with singing".

I actually don't think any of the songs you listed, aside perhaps from "Don't Let Go (Love)" distinctly represent the mid-90s.  "I Believe I Can Fly" sounds more on the cusp on mid and late because its production is notably posher than stuff from his 1995 self-titled album like "I Can't Sleep Baby (If I)."  "Un-Break My Heart" actually strikes me as more late 90s because of its more synthesized backdrop (as opposed to crashing snares like a lot of mid-90s ballads) and use of acoustic guitars, which make it sound quite similar to Mariah Carey's "My All," a #1 song in mid-1998.

Eh.. I don't think R. Kelly's 1995 album is all that gritty. I actually think it's pretty polished. Also, "Un-Break My Heart" has the crashing snares. Have you heard the gated drums at the end? The "landscape" of the music is also synthesized, as is with "My All". I can actually imagine those songs being popular in the early 1990's. Adult Contemporary didn't changed too much from 1989 until 1999.

More like general 90s songs, as well as plenty of late 90s-leaning hip hop and r&b. One of the biggest songs of 1997, which isn't on this list due to not being a commercially released single, is Will Smith's "Men in Black," which topped both the Hot 100 Airplay and Rhythmic Top 40 charts, as well as making it to #2 on the Mainstream Top 40.  Sure, it may sound distinctly classic 90s, but Will Smith as a solo artist (not as The Fresh Prince) was one of the most significant rappers of the late 90s, remaining popular all the way through the new millennium on the heels on "Wild, Wild West" and "Will 2K."

I can actually imagine Will Smith's "Men in Black" being popular even in 1991. It has a stomp snare+clap beat that was very popular for almost all of the '90s, the synthesizers are very dated in a early and mid '90s-esque way, and the fact that he features Coko from SWV dates it even more. While Will Smith is a late '90s artist, this song doesn't sound late '90s.

Those aren't really Generation-X distinguishers.  The East Coast was pretty much the dominant center of hip hop throughout the millennial era and early 2000s, during which artists like Jay-Z, DMX, and Fabolous were really popular.  Plenty of hip hop songs from the early 2000s sampled older classics, like Jay-Z's "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)," for example.

By the time 1997 arrived, however, hip hop started to become glossier and more pre-packaged than it ever had in the past.  I wouldn't necessarily describe Generation X hip hop as "more musical and simplistic," especially by the mid-90s, when the lyrics were a lot more violent and rebellious and the production sounded menacing.


Actually, they kind of are. Yes, the east coast remained popular in the very early 2000's, but not dominant. In 2000 you had guys like Nelly and Ludacris taking over hip-hop, and clearly became the biggest rappers of the early '00s. 2002 and 2003 were their commercial peaks. They were more popular and relevant than Jay-Z, DMX, and Fabolous. Also, I need to take note that "hip" is not the same as "popular". Celine Dion was popular, but she wasn't "hip". Jay, DMX, and Fab were in that position. Nelly and Luda, on the other hand, were actually hip and cool, as well as popular.

The reason why I made that statement about Gen-X hip-hop is because it's true. Menacing does not mean it isn't beautiful. Beautiful music does not always have to produce positive and happy feelings. The lyrics were more violent and rebellious, but they were also honest. I also wouldn't consider the productions of "Dear Mama", "California Love", and "How Do You Want It" as menacing. "Old School" and "So Many Tears" are a bit gritty and definitely hardcore though. Nonetheless, all of these songs are melodic. Millennial hip-hop, such as "Move Bitch", "Get Low", "Laffy Taffy", and "Freak a Leek" aren't melodic.

I think 1997 is a lot different from 1994, though.  1994 still had a large amount of early 90s influences throughout.  Contemporary r&b didn't start to fully adopt that laid-back funk until around the last third of the year, when things like Brandy's self-titled debut and TLC's CrazySexyCool came out, and there was still a ton of new-jack swing on the charts that year, such as "You Want This," "Stay," "Misled," and "If You Go."  Grunge was also in its commercial peak.  Nickelodeon was still in the midst of its golden era, Friends only just premiered, and shows like Sabrina, the Teenage Witch, King of the Hill, and 7th Heaven weren't on television yet.  Almost nobody in 1994, besides the most hardcore of nerds, knew about or used the Internet (Netscape came out that year, but Internet Explorer was still a year away), whereas by 1997, it was a rapidly growing trend that constantly made headline news stories.  I can understand comparing the year more to 1994 than 2000 or 1999 because it was clearly still a classic 90s year, which 2000 and 1999 were not, but within the whole 90s decade, I think its an exaggeration to call it the "exact same era" as 1994.

I don't. Yes you are right about the internet, but you're placing too much emphasis on the kid culture. Everything I write about '90s mainstream popular culture is from a Generation X perspective, as much as I can try. Almost all of the decade are classic '90s years, with the exception of the very first and the very last year of the decade. And 1995-1997 is not different from the early '90s. Songs like "Runaway", "Hand in My Pocket", "Twisted", "Hey Lover", "Doin' It", "Stupid Girl", "Mother Mother", "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me", "You're Making Me High", "Trippin' on a Hole in a Paper Heart", "Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth with Money in My Hand", "Lovefool", "Who Will Save Your Soul", "You Learn", "Salvation", "Missing", "Return of the Mack", "I Like It", "I Don't Want To", and "Swallowed" could all easily fit in with 1991-1993. 1994 and 1997 were both the same era. People were wearing the same clothes, listening to the same music, watching the same tv shows, saying the same catchphrases, going out to see the same movies, shopping at the same stores, and reading the same magazines and books. The biggest difference is the video games, but the franchises were almost completely the same so even that was much different. In my view, 1994-1997 comfortably fit into my view of the mid 1990's. Heck, 1997 has more in common with the early '90s than it does with its own chronological era - the late 1990's - all 12 months, 365 days of it.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/15/16 at 4:07 am

"Fly" is much richer than the rest of their hit singles. It's true that that song was much poppier than the other songs on the album it belonged to, but the composition is more diverse than Sugar Ray's future hits. "Every Morning", "Someday", and "When It's Over" are just a hybrid of pop rock and alternative hip-hop, while "Falls Apart" is a bit more alternative rock with a surf vibe. "Fly" on the other hand mixes reggae fusion with acoustic rock, funk metal, hip-hop, and ska. Mixing of genres was not uncommon in the mid '90s.

"Fly" is hardly any different stylistically from Sugar Ray's other hit singles, you're exaggerating the differences.  Also, songs with a pop/reggae/hip hop style weren't absent from the millennial era.  "Smile" by Vitamin C is pretty much in the same vein as "Fly," and that was mid-late 1999.

As for the second paragraph, I didn't understand where you were coming from. Were you agreeing with me? As a matter of fact, "When You're Gone/Free to Decide" is actually a great example of 1997 hits that could have been big in 1993. They both don't sound too different from "Linger".

My point is that while early-mid-90s alternative was still popular in 1997, it was also still huge in 1998 and remained moderately popular until roughly the mid-2000s.

1994 had plenty of slickly produced songs. "Do You Wanna Get Funky", "Funky Melody", "Living In Danger", and "100% Pure Love" are very polished and tightly composed.

They don't sound Y2K-modern though.  All the songs you just listed, aside from "100% Pure Love" (since Crystal Waters had another hit in 1997) would have been pretty outdated by the late 90s.

Speaking of which, "Say You'll Be There" has a more similar beat to "Do You Wanna Get Funky", but it's softer and less intense. "Your Woman" doesn't sound slick and polished at all. The beats are totally mid '90s; they sound very similar, almost exactly the same, as Coolio's "Fantastic Voyage". Other obvious similarities are the grimy synthesizers and the deep bass. White Town even said himself that he made that song on really old equipment, so it's no wonder that it sounds 1994-ish.

I still really don't think it sounds 1994-sh, in spite of the old equipment.  "Do You Wanna Get Funky" and "Fantastic Voyage" have a thicker thump than "Your Woman" and snarling, g-funk-esque synths.

"If You Could Only See" and "Bitch" have pretty distorted synthesizers. The former actually has pretty heavy guitars. Both of their music videos especially prove my point. The fashions would are exactly what people in 1994 were wearing. As in: Not different from My So Called Life and Party of Five.

Synthesizers?  Only the beat from "Bitch" is synthesized.

"Closing Time" is a 1998 song that has pretty heavy guitars, though not too distorted.

By distorted, I mean like Sixteen Stone-levels, songs like "Everything Zen," "Swallowed," and Silverchair's "Tomorrow."  By the late 90s, it was pretty much just the clearer stuff that attained significant chart success, though to be fair late 90s post-grunge would not sound out of place in the mid-90s, either; the genre didn't change dramatically until Creed's "Higher" came out.

They absolutely would have had success in 1997. Once again, "If You Could Only See" is an obvious example. However, the biggest pieces of evidence are Alanis Morissette's "Uninvited" and Live's "Lankini's Juice". Both of these are ridiculously angry, dark, heavy, and very, very, very intense. Also, "Vasoline" is just a general core '90s song, not strictly belonging in the early, mid, or late category because the song features latin percussions, giving it a more diverse feel than most grunge songs. This was not uncommon in the '90s.

"Vasoline" is hardly the same type of song as "If You Could Only See," it's straight-up grunge and is far less radio-friendly than that song, bearing almost a resemblance to alternative metal, even.  Also, there were plenty of grunge songs before the core 90s with unconventional rhythmic structures; Soundgarden's own "Rusty Cage," from Badmotorfinger, is one example of this.  "Zombie" is an example of a post-grunge song that strictly fits the mid-90s.  I also don't really see "Lakini's Juice" as being that dark or gloomy; it's just sort of loud, like most late 90s post-grunge songs were.

I'm not so sure about this. 2 Live Crew released a song called "Me So Horny" in 1989 which became a hit reaching #26 on the USA pop charts. A year later they released "Banned in the U.S.A." which hit even higher at #20. Other than that I don't see any other Miami Bass songs becoming hits until 1993 when it became an actual trend. I will need proof supporting that above statement.

Honestly, "Dazzey Duks" and "Whoomph! (There It Is)" are the first huge 90s miami bass songs that come to my mind, but I was only making the point that the genre wasn't strictly mid-90s.

Honestly, I think you're exaggerating how much "No Diggity" changed the game. The way you say it makes it seem like the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" of the urban community. The only thing that makes it really distinct is the really loud cymbal that occurs every time the drum machine reaches the snare. I still consider it mid '90s. It has pianos, black male group vocals, a rapper or two, a hip-hop beat, and yes, bassy funk. It does not sound too different from New Edition's "Hit Me Off", and they both have the exact same tempo at 89 beats per minute. They both would have found success in 1993 and maybe even 1992.

What?  There's no way anything like "No Diggity" would have been made in the early 90s.  Its lyrics are far too geared towards millennials and the beat's instrumentation sounds too modern to be in the same category as something like "Humpin' Around" or "Nothin' My Love Can't Fix."  It gives off more similar vibes to something like B2K's "Bump, Bump, Bump" than, say, "She's Playing Hard to Get."

To be fair, "No Diggity" isn't really the most direct example of late 90s r&b suddenly becoming common, since it features Dr. Dre and still has a pretty mid-90s feel to its beat.  I think Aaliyah's "If Your Girl Only Knew" is really the first example of a completely obvious shift away from mid-90s urban towards Y2K-era urban, though I think "Pony" and the Mase remix of "Only You" also clearly fit under the late 90s umbrella.

That said, "No Diggity's" trebly instrumentation and more blatantly urban lyrics (with slang like "shorty" and "playette") were still a clear break from all of the silky, bassy g-funk being produced in the mid-90s.  The song's tone felt extremely cutting edge at the time of its release, which could explain why it jotted up to number 1 in late 1996.  Where, must I ask, even is the bass in the song?  It's so trebly and percussion-centric that I sometimes wonder if the regular mp3 for it is not of the best quality.  Its instrumentation sounds nothing like "Hit Me Off," I get the impression you're comparing the two songs because they're both sung by Teddy Riley-organized male r&b groups and have funky rhythms.  I know I've mentioned this before, but if there's any song whose production I would compare to "No Diggity," it would be Mary J. Blige's "Family Affair" from five years later.

See my above response involving Foxy Brown.

What response?  Stuff like "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems" and "Feel So Good" are so obviously from a different era than songs like "Player's Anthem" and "Flava in Ya Ear."

I actually think either one of two things: a) That Daydream is pretty tightly produced compared to most of the music at the time, or the more viable option b) Butterfly isn't that polished. When I first heard "Honey" I thought it was pretty hardcore and gritty. Those synthesizers have a growl to them, the bass is deep, and the drums are loud. "Butterfly" and "My All" could fit in well with the mid '90s as well. I think their span would have been 1994-1998.

"Honey" hardcore and gritty?  Are you serious?  It's just a typical slice of Bad Boy's late 90s, shiny suit, triangle-and-crystal ambiance commercial pop.  It's certainly eons apart from stuff like "Diggin' on You" and "Freak Like Me."

The differences between early 90s, mid-90s, and late 90s ballads are pretty subtle, but I think "Butterfly" and "My All" pretty clearly fit better with late 90s.  I think they sound more studio-produced than more arena-oriented songs like "One Sweet Day" and "Anytime You Need a Friend."  They're more in the same vein as stuff like Brian McKnight's "Back at One" and K-Ci & JoJo's "All My Life," imo.

I know that, I'm not stupid. I only said it wasn't debatable because I know what I'm talking about. It's not out of ignorance of what happened during that decade, I made my decision based on everything that I have observed, studied, and analyzed over a period of almost two years and I came to the conclusion that 1994 and 1997 are one and the same. Because I have put so much time and effort in my opinion, I have absolutely no reason to change it. I do, however, find it incredibly fun to debate though (which is what I'm doing right now!).

You don't have to get defensive about the legitimacy of your arguments, I certainly don't doubt you put a ton of thought into your writing, which is what makes it so enjoyable debating with you in the first place.

However, your use of phrasing in your last response to me still made it seem like it was elementary that 1997 was a mid-90s year.  You explicitly said:

1997 is the same era as 1994, and a world away from 2000. Hell, even 1999 was a different era. Generation X was still very much the dominant demographic that year. This really isn't debatable.

I think there was plenty of Generation Y-oriented culture in 1997 and 1998; even though it wasn't completely formed yet, I think it's reasonable for somebody to say both years were more targeted towards Generation Y.  Fifth generation video games, shows like South Park and King of the Hill, groups like the Spice Girls and Hanson being on everybody's mind, the grunge and gangsta rap movements being out of breath, etc., are all pretty reasonable evidence for somebody to conclude those years were more Y than X.

I find it interesting, too, that you still claim that 1994 and 1997 are "one and the same," even though you just stated, in another thread, that the first few months of 1994 were more early 90s and the entire second half of 1997 was more late 90s.  Even if you think both years overall were mostly mid-90s, I still don't get how you could act as though the two years are practically identical.

Really? I don't think "Sunny Came Home" sounds like "Pieces of Me" at all! I actually think that is one of the most perfect examples of a 1997 song that would have easily been popular in 1994! First of all, it's a folk rock song, while "Pieces of Me" is a pop rock tune. The lyrical content is also very contrasting: "Sunny" is a very dark song about a woman who decides to abandon her past and even burn down her house because she was a victim of physical abuse. "Pieces" is light and airy and has no lyrical depth - it''s just pop. The banjos don't do anything to make it sound 2000's at all. Folk music was one of the most ridiculed genres in the 2000's, everyone made fun of it. It was really popular in the '90s and came back in the 2010s. Contemporary Folk had it's roots in the 1960's which is when it became really popular. There is no way that "Sunny" would have been popular in the 2000's.

There were plenty of contemporary folk songs that still achieved success throughout the 2000s, going as far as artists like KT Tunstall and James Blunt in the mid-2000s.  Artists like the Goo Goo Dolls, Jewel, and Alanis Morissette were still highly successful and relevant for quite a sizable portion of the decade.

As for the "Sunny Came Home" and "Pieces of Me" comparison, I wasn't really referring to the lyrics, although I could still easily imagine a song as bleak as "Sunny Came Home" achieving popularity in the 2000s.  But both songs have pretty much the exact same feel, as well as similar instrumentation.  "Pieces of Me" was a prime example that 90s-style pop rock was still alive and well in the 2000s, even if teen-oriented artists were joining in on the fun more than ever.

I agree with "I Wanna Be Down", definitely not "Creep". The latter is definitely not a song to chill out to. It is clearly meant for dancing and playing at parties, as with "Steelo".

I personally feel soothed listening to "Creep's" funky beat, trumpet loop, and fuzzy bass.  It works just as well for lounging as it does for dancing.

I don't think "Don't Leave Me" would have been popular beyond 1998. It sounds very different from the more boring and uninspired ballads of 1999-2001. 2002 is also the year ballads completely died, as well as R&B dying off and being completely replaced by "Hip-Hop with singing".

"Don't Leave Me" isn't a ballad, though.  It's just a pop-urban song with a busy shuffle-beat that fits pretty comfortably alongside other songs of the same genre in the late 90s and early 2000s.

Eh.. I don't think R. Kelly's 1995 album is all that gritty. I actually think it's pretty polished. Also, "Un-Break My Heart" has the crashing snares. Have you heard the gated drums at the end? The "landscape" of the music is also synthesized, as is with "My All". I can actually imagine those songs being popular in the early 1990's. Adult Contemporary didn't changed too much from 1989 until 1999.

I don't think "gritty" is the appropriate word to describe R. Kelly's self-titled debut, but it still feels a lot dreamier and more ambient than "I Believe I Can Fly," which, similar to the ballads from Mariah Carey's Butterfly, sounds accessible and studio-produced.

I can actually imagine Will Smith's "Men in Black" being popular even in 1991. It has a stomp snare+clap beat that was very popular for almost all of the '90s, the synthesizers are very dated in a early and mid '90s-esque way, and the fact that he features Coko from SWV dates it even more. While Will Smith is a late '90s artist, this song doesn't sound late '90s.

It totally sounds late 90s.  It's pretty much in that same cheesy vein as Puff Daddy and Mase's songs from that era, and it's not at all different from Smith's subsequent hits like "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It," "Miami," and "Wild Wild West."  There's also no way a song that glossy and modernly-synthesized would've been made during the same era as "Summertime" or "2 Legit 2 Quit."

Actually, they kind of are. Yes, the east coast remained popular in the very early 2000's, but not dominant. In 2000 you had guys like Nelly and Ludacris taking over hip-hop, and clearly became the biggest rappers of the early '00s. 2002 and 2003 were their commercial peaks. They were more popular and relevant than Jay-Z, DMX, and Fabolous. Also, I need to take note that "hip" is not the same as "popular". Celine Dion was popular, but she wasn't "hip". Jay, DMX, and Fab were in that position. Nelly and Luda, on the other hand, were actually hip and cool, as well as popular.

Well, in the mid-90s, the East Coast was accompanied by gangsta rap, and even as soon as mid-1997, No Limit Records emerged as a serious contender to all of the New York-based hip hop labels at the time.

Also, what about rappers like Ja Rule, Cam'ron, and the like?  They achieved pretty consistent chart success during the early 2000s and they were also from New York.  Also, most hip hop fans took Jay-Z's The Blueprint, as well as Nas' Stillmatic far more seriously than anything coming out of St. Louis or Atlanta (aside from Outkast).

The reason why I made that statement about Gen-X hip-hop is because it's true. Menacing does not mean it isn't beautiful. Beautiful music does not always have to produce positive and happy feelings. The lyrics were more violent and rebellious, but they were also honest. I also wouldn't consider the productions of "Dear Mama", "California Love", and "How Do You Want It" as menacing. "Old School" and "So Many Tears" are a bit gritty and definitely hardcore though. Nonetheless, all of these songs are melodic. Millennial hip-hop, such as "Move Bitch", "Get Low", "Laffy Taffy", and "Freak a Leek" aren't melodic.

I think "California Love" and "How Do U Want It" are pretty menacing and street.  There were still a lot of hip hop songs in the 2000s with pretty strong melodic tendencies, like "What's Luv," "Hey Ma," and "Empire State of Mind," just to name a few.

I don't. Yes you are right about the internet, but you're placing too much emphasis on the kid culture.

Are the PlayStation 1, South Park, King of the Hill, 7th Heaven, and changing musical trends (if not teen pop, then at least Radiohead's revolutionary OK Computer) strictly "kid culture?"

Everything I write about '90s mainstream popular culture is from a Generation X perspective, as much as I can try. Almost all of the decade are classic '90s years, with the exception of the very first and the very last year of the decade. And 1995-1997 is not different from the early '90s. Songs like "Runaway", "Hand in My Pocket", "Twisted", "Hey Lover", "Doin' It", "Stupid Girl", "Mother Mother", "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me", "You're Making Me High", "Trippin' on a Hole in a Paper Heart", "Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth with Money in My Hand", "Lovefool", "Who Will Save Your Soul", "You Learn", "Salvation", "Missing", "Return of the Mack", "I Like It", "I Don't Want To", and "Swallowed" could all easily fit in with 1991-1993. 1994 and 1997 were both the same era.

Okay, this is totally exaggerating things.  Do you really think the above songs sound anything like these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY84MRnxVzo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyDjRd0Tjss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEGjLU2egA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjWSMxLbbe0

Also, did you just mention how the alternative songs I listed from the early 90s sounded more jangly than the core 90s example you brought up?

Movements such as britpop, pop punk, post-grunge, and even the 90s brand of contemporary folk weren't yet mainstream in the early 90s, nor had pop and urban developed that laid-back funk that would dominate the mid-90s.

People were wearing the same clothes, listening to the same music, watching the same tv shows, saying the same catchphrases, going out to see the same movies, shopping at the same stores, and reading the same magazines and books. The biggest difference is the video games, but the franchises were almost completely the same so even that was much different.

The same clothes and tv shows?  Were these things really fashionable by 1995-1997?

http://static.awkwardfamilyphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/2013/03/197785_10150262004654121_2659499_n/2067548483.jpg

http://www.rentcafe.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/90s-clothing-e1347462664322.jpg

https://fanart.tv/fanart/tv/77623/hdclearart/cheers-511fe10a54ca7.png

On the flip side, the early 90s lacked a ton of important mid-90s shows like Beavis & Butthead, Friends, and The X-Files, except maybe during the transition into the mid-90s (certainly not 1991 or 1992, at least).

Ironically, video games are pretty much one of the things I think changed the least between the early 90s and mid-90s.  Both sub-eras were commercially dominated by fourth-generation systems, with the SNES in particular being huge during both periods.  Fifth generation games hadn't really taken off yet until late 1996, and even in the early 90s, there were a lot of attempts at 3D games, i.e. Star Fox, Wolfenstein 3D, and Alone in the Dark.

In my view, 1994-1997 comfortably fit into my view of the mid 1990's. Heck, 1997 has more in common with the early '90s than it does with its own chronological era - the late 1990's - all 12 months, 365 days of it.

I'm sorry, but at this point, I feel like you're just reacting against my categorization of 1997 with the Y2K era.  It's one thing to say 1997 is more of a mid-90s year (not something I agree with, but I can understand it), but that it's more similar to the early 90s than its own chronological era?  I think even most people who think 1997 was strictly mid-90s would tell you that doesn't make any sense.  Did the late 90s really evolve that quickly and the early-mid 90s that slowly?  I know you're passionate and considerate about your opinion, and I can at least understand where you're coming from in most of your response, but this statement in particular just baffles my mind.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/17/16 at 8:29 pm


Those aren't 90's things, those are 80's things.


Sorry, I have to disagree with you on that.

Is Ronnie's presidency a 90's thing too?


Ronnie's books are '90s things.

I don't know how 1998 and 1999 are so different to you. They're both years of the late 90's/early 00's Y2K era just like 2000-2003 are.

Star Wars: Episode 1 was not the highest grossing movie of 1998.

The Star Wars prequels of the 00s were to the original trilogy what the paraquels of the late '10s and early '20s are to the it: they're both bookends

Besides, '90s shows like Geraldo, Unsolved Mysteries, and Seinfeld were over before our 1999 calendars went up.



Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/17/16 at 8:49 pm


Sorry, I have to disagree with you on that.


Well, 1993 was like the last year where 80s vibes were still around. I swear to god, there were tons of things that make 1993 a bit related to the 80s. For instance, they still had the East-West division system for Major League Baseball. That was the last time when they only had the NL/ALCS and World Series. After '93, they pretty much announced that they're going to have a Central division in both leagues. Sure, you had Bill Clinton's first year as president back in '93, but George H.W. Bush was still president until January 20th of that year.

Ronnie's books are '90s things.

Ronnie's books weren't that definitive during the 90s. People were more focused on Bill Clinton than Reagan back then. Unless you were a Republican that wanted another conservative in office, just like Bush, Sr.

Star Wars: Episode 1 was not the highest grossing movie of 1998.

That still makes 1998 more related to 1999-2002. For example, if you watched HBO during the late 90s/early 00s, you'll pretty much see either Oz (1997-2003), Sex and the City (1998-2004), The Sopranos (1999-2007), Curb Your Enthusiasm (2000-present), Six Feet Under (2001-2005), and The Wire (2002-2008) on their original programming schedule.

The Star Wars prequels of the 00s were to the original trilogy what the paraquels of the late '10s and early '20s are to the it: bookends

Those prequels took place before the paraquels obviously. That's like comparing apples to oranges. Episodes VII and VIII weren't made because of the prequels. They were made because people wanted to see more of Star Wars. They wanted to see more Jedis, robots, lightsaber duels, etc.

Besides, '90s shows like Geraldo, Unsolved Mysteries, and Seinfeld were over before our 1999 calendars went up.


But that still doesn't make 1998 less comparable to 1999.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/17/16 at 9:09 pm


Wow, this says everything that anybody needs to know about your ridiculous theory.  I guess the Reagan Revolution and fall of the Berlin Wall were nothing but insignificant blips that were merely building up to George H. W. Bush being in his second year in office as President of the United States in 1990.


It's not as ridiculous as you think, really, nor is it a theory.  8)

Of course you're going to have "best of the eighties" compilation media at the chronological beginning of the new decade.  Were complete "best of the seventies" books being released at the start of 1978, which also included Woodstock, the Moon Landing, or anything else that had to do with the spirit of '69?  Did it take until January 1, 2011 instead of the turn of 2010 for "best of the 2000s" books, articles, and YouTube videos to arrive?

The second "Best of the Eighties" book of the Archie Americana Series was first sold at bookstores in 2010, for your information.

Awesome.  In 2003,the entire trilogy was released as a DVD set, so I guess we can call that an iconic part of 2000s culture as well:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y9N6Q32TL.jpg


It's not the same, Infinity. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles did not premiere on Television two years after the entire trilogy was on DVD in 2003.

1990 was just the height of the Ninja Turtles craze, which began in the late 80s and started to cool off before the core 90s even took off.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze began and ended in 1990. They were the best selling toys of 1990 and most people over the age of 40 remember them as '90s icons.

The moonwalk is like the iconic dance move of the 80s.  Michael Jackson's Moonwalker came out in 1989, not 1990, not to mention Back to the Future Part III was filmed in 1988 (the same time as Part II from 1989).

Most importantly, when was Back to the Future Part 3 was shown in theaters?  8)

I guess there's still a strong "2000s vibe" to 2016 as well, and of course by 2000s things I mean anything that represents the spirit of '99.


Nice one, you really me there, champ.  ::)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/17/16 at 9:12 pm


Those prequels took place before the paraquels obviously. That's like comparing apples to oranges. Episodes VII and VIII weren't made because of the prequels. They were made because people wanted to see more of Star Wars. They wanted to see more Jedis, robots, lightsaber duels, etc.


I was not comparing them, NewYorkEagle.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/17/16 at 9:25 pm


But that still doesn't make 1998 less comparable to 1999.


Strongly disagree with you on that. The '90s atmosphere was dead after 1998.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/17/16 at 9:43 pm

Oh, goodie!  Here we go, I suppose...


It's not as ridiculous as you think, really, nor is it a theory.  8)


How is it not a ridiculous and biased theory to say 1979 to 1989 were all insignificant years in history and that their only purpose was to lead us to 1990?  You're the only person I've ever met, born before or after 1977, who makes such an obsessively big deal out of 1990 as to rule out the cultural and historic significance of the eleven years that preceded it.

The second "Best of the Eighties" book of the Archie Americana Series was first sold at bookstores in 2010, for your information.

That's not relevant to my question.  I was only asking you whether or not "best of the 70s" books started flooding stores in 1978 or if it really took until 2011, not 2010, for "best of the 2000s" media to show up.

It's not the same, Infinity. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles did not premiere on Television two years after the entire trilogy was on DVD in 2003.

Well, the fourth movie still came out in 2008, just five years after the DVD release of the original trilogy.  I know a lot of people genuinely believe Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull is literally not of the same caliber as the first three films, but if we're going by the logic of whether merchandise continued to be produced for the franchise, it's still relevant regardless.  The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles are hardly more important or influential that the theatrical trilogy, you're just trying to associate a clearly 80s franchise with the 90s in any way you can.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze began and ended in 1990. They were the best selling toys of 1990 and most people over the age of 40 remember them as '90s icons.

1990 was still a predominantly 80s year though, with only bits and pieces of what would become the true 90s.  It's not controversial to call the Turtles 90s things because they were still relevant during the early 90s, but you can't deny their importance to the late 80s, either.

Most importantly, when was Back to the Future Part 3 was shown in theaters?  8)

May 1990, a month that was still quintessential late 80s and hardly had a regular 90s vibe to it.  You're the one who previously called 1990 an "extension of 1988-1989."

Nice one, you really me there, champ.  ::)

But isn't it still consistent with your argument about a so-called "70s vibe" being prominent through 1989?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/17/16 at 9:45 pm


It's not as ridiculous as you think, really, nor is it a theory.  8)


No, it simply isn't. 1990-93 weren't even that debatable with 1994-99 as being the 90s.

The second "Best of the Eighties" book of the Archie Americana Series was first sold at bookstores in 2010, for your information.

That's not what Infinity was talking about. She was saying that there would be a "Best of " book at every turn of the decade. Also, having a second book on the same decade wouldn't really improve your point.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze began and ended in 1990. They were the best selling toys of 1990 and most people over the age of 40 remember them as '90s icons.

Wasn't the TMNT craze more 1987-91ish? People wouldn't really spend 365 days on a single franchise and move on to the next. That's not how the human minds work, dude.

Most importantly, when was Back to the Future Part 3 was shown in theaters?  8)


1990. But that doesn't really make the movie look like it was from the 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/17/16 at 9:50 pm


Sorry, I have to disagree with you on that.

Ronnie's books are '90s things.

Star Wars: Episode 1 was not the highest grossing movie of 1998.

The Star Wars prequels of the 00s were to the original trilogy what the paraquels of the late '10s and early '20s are to the it: bookends

Besides, '90s shows like Geraldo, Unsolved Mysteries, and Seinfeld were over before our 1999 calendars went up.


You're back! I am so happy to see you Early 90's Guy! I was just talking about you with everyone!

Early 90's Guy, you have been playing with too many slammin' turtle skins and you need me, Jordan the guy who knows some stuff, to open your eyes. The core 90's were done by 1997. If there is anything that defines the 90's in absolutely  anyway shape or form it's the time span from 1993 to 1997. 1998 is too much like 2000-2002 to define the 90's but 1998 is not the start of the real 2000's. That crap started in 2004 Proof?

Pre 2003:

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/quiz/765000/765839_1325498718336_375_300.jpg

Post 2003:

http://tanakamusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Green-Day2.jpg

It's clear I know what I'm talking about.

Ronnie's books are more important than his presidency, huh?

Can't Hardly Wait came out in 1998 and that movie has early 2000's written all over it. So did Godzilla and Half-Baked. You look at the cover design for Godzilla and Half-Baked and you'll see:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Godzilla_(1998_Movie_Poster).jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/Half-baked-dvd-cover.jpg

Wow, these look like early 00's movies! I rest my case Early 90's Guy. You will never be the Late 90's Guy like I am.

If anything, the 90's atmosphere died around 1997. Flannel, Grunge and Beavis and Butthead? Nope, not in 1998. Fresh Prince? Not even in 1997. 


The real question is...
Why were you playing with realistic turtle skins that made you feel "slammin" and "sweet" when you could of been gawking at Kelly Kapowski like the rest of us? Something's fishy, Early 90s Guy. Very, very fishy.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/17/16 at 9:51 pm


Strongly disagree with you on that. The '90s atmosphere was dead after 1998.


But 1999-03 still had 90s vibes. Just because the decade's atmosphere died during the near end, that doesn't mean everyone has to accept it back then.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/17/16 at 10:27 pm


Sorry, I have to disagree with you on that.


Pardon me, but 1990 was not a 90s year, culturally.

Ronnie's books are '90s things.

What books?  The Gipper was hardly even a public figure during the 1990s, due to his Alzheimer's.

Star Wars: Episode 1 was not the highest grossing movie of 1998.

Well, it wasn't the highest grossing movie of 2000, 2001, 2002, etc., either.  Even so, the whole Star Wars prequel trilogy vibe had already started with the controversial Star Wars Special Edition in early 1997, anyway.  Greedo shooting Han first, Jedi Rocks, and the buttload of CGI added to Mos Eisley are just as reviled as Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians, and Jake Lloyd as Anakin Skywalker.

The Star Wars prequels of the 00s were to the original trilogy what the paraquels of the late '10s and early '20s are to the it: they're both bookends

The final installment of the Star Wars sequel trilogy is slated to be released in 2019, though.  Also, the Sequel Trilogy is a heck of a lot more related to the original trilogy from the late 70s and early 80s than the prequel trilogy; its closest connection to that series is Ewan McGregor voicing Obi-Wan's ghost for a few seconds, and even so, it probably would've been Alec Guinness instead had he still been alive when the movie was filmed.

Besides, '90s shows like Geraldo, Unsolved Mysteries, and Seinfeld were over before our 1999 calendars went up.


Shows like Friends, Frasier, and The X-Files, however, were still airing new episodes well after 1999.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/18/16 at 2:11 pm


May 1990, a month that was still quintessential late 80s and hardly had a regular 90s vibe to it.  You're the one who previously called 1990 an "extension of 1988-1989."


I guess this is a good time to post this:


Perfect summary. 1990-1993 was more of an extension to late '88/1989 primarily. Back then, you had the older Xers who were nostalgic for the core years of the 1980s versus the younger members of my generation who had a very anti-80s attitude. People my age were "living for the 90s" all throughout the 1990s. Don't get me wrong, there were awesome selections by Warrant and Poison in 1990, but most people my age were starting to make fun of how superficial glam metal was getting to be. That attitude came about in late '89. Then, there were the folks whose emphasis was on how different the future would be from then. Remember, BTTF 2 came out in November of 1989 and The Jetsons Movie was in theaters during the summer of '90. 2 Live Crew and the LL Cool J/ Kool Moe D feud were very important to that time. Moe D was beginning to look more like an early 80s rapper to us in 1991. Moe D had some great hits in 1989. His '91 stuff is better than any rap you'll find on the radio today. Cool J ended it all when the classic Mama Said Knock You Out was released. Looking back, I can't believe I lived in during the video game wars. I wanted a SNES, but then, I was exposed to Sonic the Hedgehog at Sams Club and I was blown away. Who could forget the Sega Game Gear?! That TV Tuner really set it apart from the Gameboy at the time. It was ahead of its time when you think about it. You listed so many great early 90s movies. I was amazed by how filmmakers could take average everyday people and animals and give them so much character. They have us dogs (Beethoven), Nuns (Sister Act) and drug lords (Niño Brown) and changed out perception of them. The LA Riots were ultimately responsible for changing the face of rap music. We were always getting closer to the riots erupting with each passing year of the late 1980s and very early 1990s. I remember a good amount of civilians in my state wanting Reagan back during the Recession. Things were going so great for Bush Sr. after The Gulf War ended. His approval rate went up again and I was proud to be an American. I remember thinking the world would be a lot more peaceful in 1992 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Zubaz, shortalls, Raiders gear, Nike Bo Knows shirts, Reebok Pumps, Hypercolor, Cross Colors (present in the first two years of the mid 90s, also), Don't Worry Be Happy shirts or Hard Rock Cafe tees.
Tiny Toon Adventures (not as popular as Animaniacs,but still) and In Living Color cemented the early 90s as a time away from the 1980s. In the actual 80s, everyone was nostalgic for the 50s and 60s. Sketch comedies were a very 70s thing. Hey, Big Fun's cover of MJ's 1976 hit "Blame It On The Boogie" came out in 1989. So, in a way, you can say the Bush Sr. era sorta began in 1989. You hit the nail on its head with this summary.

Eazy-EMAN1995, have you seen these: http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Early-90s-488741198
                                                        http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/89-1993-No-2-473403477



Thank you for calling '93-'96/'97ish the quintessential 90s years. The early 1990s were nothing other than a continuation to 1989. Mid 90s music groups were getting their start in the actual early 90s. Underneath it all, the early 90s were like 1989 broken up into three years. Did anyone else notice how Nirvana dropped Nevermind in the middle of the early 1990s? "Bleach" by Nirvana was released in the middle part of 1989. Get where I'm coming from now?  ;)



You're right, Saved By the Bell is an early 90s show. The early 90s were nothing other than an extension to 1989.

The real 90s didn't start until 1993 when Clinton was inaugurated and Leprechaun (one of the first true pop culture icons of the Clinton era) was doing well at the box office.



1993 was the first true year of the 1990s.


Looks like I've found his DeviantArt profile, too.


have you seen these: http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Early-90s-488741198
                                                        http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/89-1993-No-2-473403477

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/18/16 at 2:37 pm

Looks like I've found his DeviantArt profile, too.

Alas, I don't think he would categorize Nevermind, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Ren & Stimpy as early 90s, since he apparently believes they were meant for 1993-1995.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 2:51 pm


I guess this is a good time to post this:

Looks like I've found his DeviantArt profile, too.


Some of his stuff seem pretty eccentric when it comes to the early 90s.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/The-Early-90s-were-the-Last-Era-to-have-Kitsch-472695773
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/1993-Literally-Killed-It-472497740
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/91-was-a-lot-of-Fun-471673069
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/I-Hate-1993-1999-473198489
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/To-Hell-with-90s-Kids-476118836
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/No-They-Do-Not-Extend-to-1996-476327717

His artwork is also compiled with stuff from the early 90s. It seems like he wants people to be educated on his beliefs towards pop culture. I actually feel a bit sorry for him. If he wanted to be nostalgic for the late 80s and early 90s, then he could've done so without typing in all caps here.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/18/16 at 3:04 pm


Some of his stuff seem pretty eccentric when it comes to the early 90s.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/The-Early-90s-were-the-Last-Era-to-have-Kitsch-472695773
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/1993-Literally-Killed-It-472497740
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/91-was-a-lot-of-Fun-471673069
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/I-Hate-1993-1999-473198489
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/To-Hell-with-90s-Kids-476118836
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/No-They-Do-Not-Extend-to-1996-476327717


Wait a minute, 1993-1996 is "one elongated version of 1992?"  Also, I thought he firmly believed 1996 was the beginning of the late 90s, separate from 1993-1995, from day 1?  See for yourself:


1996 was definitely the beginning of the late '90s. We were just three years away from 1999 (the first year of the 2000s). In '96, all of the loose ends of the mid '90s (1993, 1994, and 1995) were tied up and very early 2000s (1999, 2000, and 2001) pop culture started to appear.



The winter to spring seasons of 1993: Strong mid-'90s atmosphere made up of all of the new shows, inventions, and musicians introduced in the early '90s.
Aladdin is everyone's favorite new movie, X-Men and X-Force action figures are liked by both children and adults alike, grungies (grunge fans) hung out at the bar, Cross Colors were no longer just sold at Merry Go Round stores in the mall, Bill was our new President, and almost everyone was talking about Melrose Place. The first ever movie released in theaters at this time was the American horror comedy film Leprechaun.

Fall of 1993-Very Start of 1996: Transition in full gear.

The winter to spring seasons of 1996: The transition is complete, we're in the late '90s. Leprechaun 3 sat on video rental shelves, White Power Ranger plush dolls were in department stores, sci-fi fans were buying Starlog magazines because the words "X-Files" are on the cover, Tommy Hilfiger clothes were popular on the streets, and most Americans were still anti-Bush voters. 3rd Rock from the Sun premiered on NBC in this time, also. 3rd Rock from the Sun went off of the air on May 22nd of 2001, by the way.


His artwork is also compiled with stuff from the early 90s. It seems like he wants to people to be educated on his beliefs towards pop culture. I actually feel a bit sorry for him. If he wanted to be nostalgic for the late 80s and early 90s, then he could've done so without typing in all caps here.


I've felt sorry for him for a long time.  Jordan and I have ultimately resorted to making fun of his posts because no ounce of reason seems to get through to him and he never stops trying to pass himself off as this cultural wizard in spite of his unorthodox perspective.  Maybe if he wasn't such an alarmingly oblivious and ignorant person, it wouldn't be so tempting to satirize his posts!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/18/16 at 3:30 pm


Some of his stuff seem pretty eccentric when it comes to the early 90s.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/The-Early-90s-were-the-Last-Era-to-have-Kitsch-472695773
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/1993-Literally-Killed-It-472497740
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/91-was-a-lot-of-Fun-471673069
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/I-Hate-1993-1999-473198489
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/To-Hell-with-90s-Kids-476118836
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/No-They-Do-Not-Extend-to-1996-476327717

His artwork is also compiled with stuff from the early 90s. It seems like he wants people to be educated on his beliefs towards pop culture. I actually feel a bit sorry for him. If he wanted to be nostalgic for the late 80s and early 90s, then he could've done so without typing in all caps here.


Hahaha, it's definitely him

http://pre09.deviantart.net/edc3/th/pre/f/2015/301/f/a/the_spirit_of_1990__uncolored_copy__by_hesalive-d9eqm5q.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Spirit-of-1990-Uncolored-Copy-568951982

Some of the artwork is pretty cool. Interesting way to express nostalgia.

http://pre01.deviantart.net/0db9/th/pre/f/2015/301/d/2/good_old_1990_by_hesalive-d9eoepu.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Good-Old-1990-568849026

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 3:38 pm


Hahaha, it's definitely him

http://pre09.deviantart.net/edc3/th/pre/f/2015/301/f/a/the_spirit_of_1990__uncolored_copy__by_hesalive-d9eqm5q.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Spirit-of-1990-Uncolored-Copy-568951982

Some of the artwork is pretty cool. Interesting way to express nostalgia.

http://pre01.deviantart.net/0db9/th/pre/f/2015/301/d/2/good_old_1990_by_hesalive-d9eoepu.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Good-Old-1990-568849026


His artwork seems nice when it's drawn on paper. His digital art however looks rushed.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 6:22 pm


I guess this is a good time to post this:


You are aware that people mature as life goes on, yes?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 6:26 pm


Alas, I don't think he would categorize Nevermind, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Ren & Stimpy as early 90s, since he apparently believes they were meant for 1993-1995.


So all things Grohlvana (Nirvana w/ Dave Grohl as drummer), Sonic the Hedgehog, and Ren and Stimpy disappeared after 1992?  ???

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 6:30 pm


Alas, I don't think he would categorize Nevermind, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Ren & Stimpy as early 90s, since he apparently believes they were meant for 1993-1995.


Wasn't Sonic the Hedgehog, Nevermind, and Ren & Stimpy very popular during 1991 and 1992? They're all obviously part of the early 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 6:41 pm


So all things Grohlvana (Nirvana w/ Dave Grohl as drummer), Sonic the Hedgehog, and Ren and Stimpy disappeared after 1992?  ???


No, she's saying that they're all early 90s, even though they continued to run during the core 90s. In fact, Sonic still exists today with its mediocre games.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 6:42 pm


You are aware that people mature as life goes on, yes?


Don't you still say that the early 90s were the best? Hell, you even say that 1993 wasn't part of the early 90s, just like in your journals on DA.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 6:57 pm


Wait a minute, 1993-1996 is "one elongated version of 1992?"  Also, I thought he firmly believed 1996 was the beginning of the late 90s, separate from 1993-1995, from day 1?  See for yourself:


The final pop culture phenomenons of the mid '90s were introduced in the last months of 1992. The years '93, '94, and '95 were in no way "one elongated version of 1992". Unfortunately for me, I did not know then what I know now.

I've felt sorry for him for a long time.  Jordan and I have ultimately resorted to making fun of his posts because no ounce of reason seems to get through to him and he never stops trying to pass himself off as this cultural wizard in spite of his unorthodox perspective.  Maybe if he wasn't such an alarmingly oblivious and ignorant person, it wouldn't be so tempting to satirize his posts!


That's fine. Your satirical posts actually have me in tears from laughing so hard. I know how ridiculous I sound, but there is a lot of truth to many of the statements I make. I don't mean to sound vain, but you only see me as an "alarmingly oblivious and ignorant person" because you and Jordan did not live the early '90s the way I did. People who love the years 1990, 1991, and 1992, in all likelihood, know where I'm coming from with my latest posts on here. They should remember Turtlemania '90 (the Turtles were everywhere, even on Oprah in that year), donning Gitano apparel, and eating PB Maxx candy bars at night. Those were the days!     

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 7:01 pm


No, she's saying that they're all early 90s, even though they continued to run during the core 90s. In fact, Sonic still exists today with its mediocre games.


The first ever Sonic the Hedgehog game and Nevermind album did first appear in stores in the early '90s, but they did not define the period. The general public was only introduced to Sonic and Grohlvana in 1991.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 7:04 pm


Don't you still say that the early 90s were the best? Hell, you even say that 1993 wasn't part of the early 90s, just like in your journals on DA.


How are you so sure that I have journals on the website Deviant-art?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/18/16 at 7:06 pm


The first ever Sonic the Hedgehog game and Nevermind album did first appear in stores in the early '90s, but they did not define the period. The general public was only introduced to Sonic and Grohlvana in 1991.


It's the moment of truth time! Do you like the 2010s more or the 2000s?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/18/16 at 7:07 pm


How are you so sure that I have journals on the website Deviant-art?


Woah wait that's not you? That dude talks about "the spirit of 1990" and how he hates all Millennials born 1987 onwards because they like the mid-90s. That seems to be similar to what you've been saying on these boards?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 7:23 pm


It's the moment of truth time! Do you like the 2010s more or the 2000s?


I would have to go with the 2010s, because we are living in one of the most technologically progressive times in history.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 7:32 pm


Woah wait that's not you? That dude talks about "the spirit of 1990" and how he hates all Millennials born 1987 onwards because they like the mid-90s. That seems to be similar to what you've been saying on these boards?


By "the spirit of 1990", I meant the overall soul of the year and attitude to that time.

Hate is a very strong word. I do not hate Millennials born in '87 and afterward, but I do not have much in common with them. So, I have a small disconnect with them. How are you so sure that most Millennials born after 1986 are nostalgic for the mid 1990s? 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 7:38 pm


Some of his stuff seem pretty eccentric when it comes to the early 90s.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/The-Early-90s-were-the-Last-Era-to-have-Kitsch-472695773
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/1993-Literally-Killed-It-472497740
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/91-was-a-lot-of-Fun-471673069
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/I-Hate-1993-1999-473198489
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/To-Hell-with-90s-Kids-476118836
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/No-They-Do-Not-Extend-to-1996-476327717

His artwork is also compiled with stuff from the early 90s. It seems like he wants people to be educated on his beliefs towards pop culture. I actually feel a bit sorry for him. If he wanted to be nostalgic for the late 80s and early 90s, then he could've done so without typing in all caps here.


That artist definitely has anger issues.  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 7:50 pm


How are you so sure that I have journals on the website Deviant-art?


Jordan gave out your DeviantArt profile.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 7:52 pm


That artist definitely has anger issues.  ;D


That artist basically sounds familiar like you. You too hate anything after the early 90s, you love 1990-92, and you pretty much get upset over anyone correcting you.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/18/16 at 7:59 pm

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMzMjM2OTkyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzg3NDcyNA@@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

1993 picture from Body of Evidence film, with Madonna.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 8:14 pm


Wasn't the TMNT craze more 1987-91ish? People wouldn't really spend 365 days on a single franchise and move on to the next. That's not how the human minds work, dude.


It went more like this:

December of 1987: The show premieres in syndication.

July of '88: The action figures hit shelves for the first time.

Somewhere in the 1988 to 1989 school year: More younger people catch onto the show.

Sometime in the spring of 1990 (around March or April of '90): A much larger portion of the United States population discover the TV series, action figures, and comic books. The craze hits. The film had a gross of $25,398,367 in its first week. The action figures were sold out at most stores during that time.

Here are some links and videos to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The Turtles were at their height in '90:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3856666/


http://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-Scrapbook_Page_08.jpg

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-04-21/entertainment/ca-1154_1_turtles-movie

http://cinemassacre.com/2011/08/02/tmnt-tuesday-birthday-party-1990/

R541NmyDJYY

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 8:15 pm


That artist basically sounds familiar like you. You too hate anything after the early 90s, you love 1990-92, and you pretty much get upset over anyone correcting you.


I would not say I hate everything made after '92, but it is not for me. I'll put it that way.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 8:17 pm


That artist basically sounds familiar like you. You too hate anything after the early 90s, you love 1990-92, and you pretty much get upset over anyone correcting you.


You aren't correcting me, though. I still stand firmly behind my latest beliefs.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 8:29 pm


Jordan gave out your DeviantArt profile.


So that's how the website name is typed? Thank you.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 8:31 pm


http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMzMjM2OTkyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzg3NDcyNA@@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

1993 picture from Body of Evidence film, with Madonna.


This is going to be off-topic, but what was your favorite Madonna film of the 1990s?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/18/16 at 8:33 pm


This is going to be off-topic, but what was your favorite Madonna film of the 1990s?


I'm not a fan of her acting.  ;D  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 8:55 pm


I would not say I hate everything made after '92, but it is not for me. I'll put it that way.


You pretty much detest anything made after '92, along with saying that '93 isn't an early 90s year. It's debatable that '93 can be a core 90s year, but I disagree with that commotion.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/18/16 at 9:47 pm


The first ever Sonic the Hedgehog game and Nevermind album did first appear in stores in the early '90s, but they did not define the period. The general public was only introduced to Sonic and Grohlvana in 1991.


You had tons of people praising Sonic during the early 90s. It's what made Sega popular during the early and mid 90s. Not to mention that he is Sega's mascot.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/18/16 at 10:24 pm


You had tons of people praising Sonic during the early 90s. It's what made Sega popular during the early and mid 90s. Not to mention that he is Sega's mascot.


People were still playing Super Mario Bros. 3 on their NES's and listening to Poison in 1991, however. Actually, this is true for most of 1991, as neither the Genesis nor grunge had achieved peak success that year.  1992, however, is a very different story, as it was around the turn of that year that grunge albums began truly outselling hair band records and the Sega Genesis entered its commercial peak.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/18/16 at 10:47 pm


You pretty much detest anything made after '92, along with saying that '93 isn't an early 90s year. It's debatable that '93 can be a core 90s year, but I disagree with that commotion.


'93 was definitely not an early '90s year.

Here is some evidence that '93 was the cut-off:

2SWjIPwm954

4x2NbK8IOpQ

NMH0GAhRLII

ArnXYmThAjI

Im4g7MOb-G0

k80E5KTjvmA

wwawtKURDuc

jVlPzTPLC4M

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/18/16 at 11:01 pm

What the f*ck!? That totally is you, dude. I've read your journals and saw your pictures and only you obsess over the turtles and hi-tops that much.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/18/16 at 11:10 pm


Some of his stuff seem pretty eccentric when it comes to the early 90s.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/The-Early-90s-were-the-Last-Era-to-have-Kitsch-472695773
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/1993-Literally-Killed-It-472497740
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/91-was-a-lot-of-Fun-471673069
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/I-Hate-1993-1999-473198489
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/To-Hell-with-90s-Kids-476118836
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/No-They-Do-Not-Extend-to-1996-476327717

His artwork is also compiled with stuff from the early 90s. It seems like he wants people to be educated on his beliefs towards pop culture. I actually feel a bit sorry for him. If he wanted to be nostalgic for the late 80s and early 90s, then he could've done so without typing in all caps here.


I like how he deleted all his journals once we found them.


I've felt sorry for him for a long time.  Jordan and I have ultimately resorted to making fun of his posts because no ounce of reason seems to get through to him and he never stops trying to pass himself off as this cultural wizard in spite of his unorthodox perspective.  Maybe if he wasn't such an alarmingly oblivious and ignorant person, it wouldn't be so tempting to satirize his posts!


It's too funny not to do so! Even better now that he's removed all his journals and sh!t from DeivantArt. At least the art is still there.


Hahaha, it's definitely him

http://pre09.deviantart.net/edc3/th/pre/f/2015/301/f/a/the_spirit_of_1990__uncolored_copy__by_hesalive-d9eqm5q.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Spirit-of-1990-Uncolored-Copy-568951982

Some of the artwork is pretty cool. Interesting way to express nostalgia.

http://pre01.deviantart.net/0db9/th/pre/f/2015/301/d/2/good_old_1990_by_hesalive-d9eoepu.jpg
http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Good-Old-1990-568849026


Not gonna lie, he's a good artist. The coloring is kinda funny but a lot of the comics are pretty cool.


You are aware that people mature as life goes on, yes?


What!?!? You're a 37 year old dude who's stuck in his ways! What maturing have you done in 1-2 years!?


That's fine. Your satirical posts actually have me in tears from laughing so hard. I know how ridiculous I sound, but there is a lot of truth to many of the statements I make. I don't mean to sound vain, but you only see me as an "alarmingly oblivious and ignorant person" because you and Jordan did not live the early '90s the way I did. People who love the years 1990, 1991, and 1992, in all likelihood, know where I'm coming from with my latest posts on here. They should remember Turtlemania '90 (the Turtles were everywhere, even on Oprah in that year), donning Gitano apparel, and eating PB Maxx candy bars at night. Those were the days!   


But I was born in 1982. I thought that by your standards I'm not a useless pansy post-1987 Millennial. Besides, I actually like the 80's and 1990-1992 slightly better than 1993-2003 I just don't believe in this spirit of '90 stuff.


How are you so sure that I have journals on the website Deviant-art?


.......


That artist definitely has anger issues.  ;D


That's clearly you! Fess up, pal.


So that's how the website name is typed? Thank you.


You've been on the site for two years now. You know how it's typed.

By the way, rumor has it that you don't like anything after 1992 because 1992 is the last time you got laid. Confirm or deny.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/18/16 at 11:11 pm


'93 was definitely not an early '90s year.

Here is some evidence that '93 was the cut-off:


Most of what you just listed is proof that 1993 is indeed more early 90s than mid-90s.  Ren & Stimpy, Wayne's World, the Addams Family movies, and the Sister act films were so clearly confined to the early 90s and aren't truly definitive to the few years afterwards.  Even Barney & Friends has already been on television since April 1992, not to mention the character Barney was introduced back in the late 80s through Barney & the Backyard Gang.

Oh wait, of course, I forgot!  Anything introduced during one sub-era is always intended for the next!  It doesn't matter if most people talk about something immediately after its release; it's only when it get a VHS release or a dated commercial spin-off that it's truly important!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/18/16 at 11:28 pm

That's clearly you! Fess up, pal.

You've been on the site for two years now. You know how it's typed.


As much as he tries to deny his DeviantArt account, he basically admitted ownership of the links you posted with this gaffe:


The final pop culture phenomenons of the mid '90s were introduced in the last months of 1992. The years '93, '94, and '95 were in no way "one elongated version of 1992". Unfortunately for me, I did not know then what I know now.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mqg96 on 02/18/16 at 11:29 pm

Here's my opinion on this topic. I can respectfully say that late 1992-mid 1993 was the transition from early 90's culture to mid 90's culture, and no, I'm not saying that 1993 was completely mid 90's or early 90's, all I'm saying is that it was transitional. Historically the same school years presidents get elected and inaugurated have usually (not always) been transitional years for the pop culture at the same time.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Bill_Clinton_taking_the_oath_of_office,_1993.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowl_Coalition

http://cdn1.thecomeback.com/thestudentsection/wp-content/uploads/sites/165/2014/07/SEC-Championship.jpg
(SEC conference in college football splits into 2 divisions like it still is today; 1st ever SEC Championship during 1992 college football season Alabama vs. Florida)

http://i.imgur.com/4bLKF.jpg

http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/x-men-animated-series.jpg

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/savedbythebell/images/0/08/4.26_-_Graduation.png/revision/latest?cb=20131113165207
(the original Saved By the Bell has its series finale)

I noticed that there were some stuff that ended and started earlier in 1992, like the Cosby Show ending and ABC World News Now getting started. It's debatable, however, I noticed some important pop culture that wasn't around yet until late 1993, so I couldn't call early 1993 strictly mid 90's yet. I think late 1993 would be a good starting point for mid 90's culture, but to each own opinions.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/18/16 at 11:36 pm


As much as he tries to deny his DeviantArt account, he basically admitted ownership of the links you posted with this gaffe:


100% this. I don't know why he denies it. It's we've found his home address or something. You know what I don't get? His whole logic "I was there so I know how things went because of my experience", right? If he's always changing his opinion, why's his experience still matter?

Seriously, who else but him would make stuff like this?

EARLY 90'S KINDA MAN!

http://pre07.deviantart.net/2c61/th/pre/i/2016/003/d/1/early_90s_kind_of_man_by_hesalive-d9mox7v.jpg

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Early-90s-Kind-of-Man-582309931?q=gallery%3AHesalive%2F50417897&qo=8

SIMPONIZED EARLY 90S CULTURE!


http://pre00.deviantart.net/9926/th/pre/f/2015/222/9/3/simpsonized_early__90s_pop_culture_by_hesalive-d9564qg.jpg

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Simpsonized-Early-90s-Pop-Culture-552879736?q=gallery%3AHesalive%2F50417897&qo=57

AS ONE DOOR CLOSES, ANOTHER DOOR OPENS!

http://pre15.deviantart.net/68fa/th/pre/f/2015/212/0/8/as_one_door_closes__another_door_opens_by_hesalive-d93lzle.jpg

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/As-One-Door-Closes-Another-Door-Opens-550260338?q=gallery%3AHesalive%2F50417897&qo=62

THE HUNT!

http://pre00.deviantart.net/eb3a/th/pre/f/2015/284/8/4/the_hunt_by_hesalive-d9cr02d.jpg

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/The-Hunt-565610773?q=gallery%3AHesalive%2F50417897&qo=30

This one doesn't even make any god damn sense but it's got a bunch of turtle references (you know, the ones with the realistic skin. They made him feel "slammin" and "sweet" when he was not touching his friend to see the hand print on the hypercolor shirt).


Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mqg96 on 02/18/16 at 11:59 pm

There could be a book or novel about "TheEarly90sGuy" ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 12:08 am

The Neurotic Misadventures of The Early 90s Guy.

I'd hope the book would make at least some sense unlike Mr. Early-90s-Kinda-Man himself.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/19/16 at 12:12 am


There could be a book or novel about "TheEarly90sGuy" ;D


I love his comic strips! (if they are his) :D

I can't hate on him for loving his Turtles. I'm obsessed with my Pokémon too even at this age  ;D A lot of my friends lined for Amiibos too LOL

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 12:21 am


Here's my opinion on this topic. I can respectfully say that late 1992-mid 1993 was the transition from early 90's culture to mid 90's culture, and no, I'm not saying that 1993 was completely mid 90's or early 90's, all I'm saying is that it was transitional. Historically the same school years presidents get elected and inaugurated have usually (not always) been transitional years for the pop culture at the same time.

I noticed that there were some stuff that ended and started earlier in 1992, like the Cosby Show ending and ABC World News Now getting started. It's debatable, however, I noticed some important pop culture that wasn't around yet until late 1993, so I couldn't call early 1993 strictly mid 90's yet. I think late 1993 would be a good starting point for mid 90's culture, but to each own opinions.



How could this be, mqg? Like Early 90s Guy says, there have been no cultural changes since 1993. ;)

"1993-1996 WAS BORING. That's not me telling you that, BUT ITS A FACT. Nothing has changed since 1993. The US still gets more Japanese imports than the law should allow. You "90s kids" still have a Playstation in stores, just not the PS1. The PS1 doesn't save the memories my generation had the NES."

"Today, in 2014, screenwriters just cannot leave the past favorites alone. It was the same exact way in 1994. Nothing has changed."

"'93  was the beginning to those stupid 'extreme' mid 90s. 1992 was the last year to have an ounce of retro in it. "Www." wasn't on the bottom of any comic strips in '92. When you think about it, '90 to '93 were the last years of the 20th Century. NAFTA happened in '93 too. I have nothing nice to say about 1993. It was seriously an overrated and boring year."

(thank god for caches)

And basically everything he said in this thread (you're just asking for trouble if you start a thread named "the 1993 thread")
http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=51366.0


I love his comic strips! (if they are his) :D

I can't hate on him for loving his Turtles. I'm obsessed with my Pokémon too even at this age  ;D A lot of my friends lined for Amiibos too LOL


I love his comic strips and his posts on here. He is my current favorite internet thing. He better admit to owning the page, his art isn't anything to be ashamed of. Besides, it makes this all even funnier.

Yeah, that's fine but he's really into that realistic skin. That's the problem! But then he posts this lovely love story...


I wish I could hop in Doc's Delorean and go back to 1991 right now! In '91, I stumbled upon Kelly Kapowski after checking out Prostars with my younger cousins. I was lost in her Pearl blue eyes right away! I already thought Paula Abdul was a "hottie" (as we put it back then) before the "Rush Rush" music video premiered on MTV. I came so close to getting a pair of Ewing 33 sneakers at the beginning of the year. I mastered "the split" just before the summer. I'm sure my friends are embarrassed to admit this today, but they actually snuck in the movie theater to see Cool As Ice.


I think he's lying. I don't see any comics about Kelly Kapowski and her hotness but I see a lot about Mutant Turtles.

"The early 1990s were tight, to put in one word. I remember a friend and I having a secret handshake and doing it before school."

You know... I really don't want to know what this "secret handsake" involves. He calls the "Clinton 90's" "touchy-feely" but I think he did enough "touchy-feely" things in the early 90's. :-\\

Oh yeah, I forgot about this post he sent me. What the hell:


I heard Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang are said to appear in the sequel. I was too old to enjoy the cartoon at the time, but early Yers will probably get a kick out of it.


He loves the trutles... Yet he was "too old" ???

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/19/16 at 1:59 am


The Neurotic Misadventures of The Early 90s Guy.

I'd hope the book would make at least some sense unlike Mr. Early-90s-Kinda-Man himself.


;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: af2010 on 02/19/16 at 2:54 am

This is one thing that I agree with TheEarly90sGuy on. The 90s were in full swing by 93.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/19/16 at 7:39 am


I would not say I hate everything made after '92, but it is not for me. I'll put it that way.


Then who's it for?  ::)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/19/16 at 7:40 am

What!?!? You're a 37 year old dude who's stuck in his ways! What maturing have you done in 1-2 years!?

;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 7:46 am


Then who's it for?  ::)


In the words of Mr. Early-90s-kinda-man, everything after 1992 is meant for "pansy useless Millennials born 1987 and after"


;D


Howard knows.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 8:19 am

Hahahahaha! This one's f*ckin' hilarious! 90s Guy really set him off!


"WHY CAN'T IT BE 1989 ANYMORE? OH RONNIEBEAR, HOW I MISS YOU! YOUR SAGGY OLDMAN TITS SAVED AMERICA FROM THE COMMIES!"



BUSH SENIOR WAS PRESIDENT FOR MOST OF 1989! HE STAYED IN OFFICE UNTIL JANUARY 20TH OF 1993!

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID THAT TO ME, THE EARLY 90s GUY! WHY DO YOU THINK THEY'RE CALLED "THE EARLY 90S"?!


I don't get this one, though. He called you a "bitter old ass", how's that mean "the good lord", Early 90s Dude?


Bitter old sheesh?!

Thank you for calling me the good lord. I had no idea you had such kind words for me. :)

Reagan was never impeached, so there. :)



Nostalgia Critic used to tickle my funny bone, but he sounds ignorant most of the time also.

He asked why all the kids of Saved By the Bell were still wearing 80s clothing when they were in the 90s. Doug must have been a youngster in the years 1990,1991 and 1992 because THAT WAS THE DUMBEST COMMENT NOSTALGIA CRITIC EVER MADE! I stopped watching his videos after that. No one knew what "90s clothing" was in 1990. We wore what was recent at the time (biker shorts, Z. Cavaricci, trenchcoats, real neon and tank tops) because we didn't know any better!

I bet the Nostalgia Critic is one of those people who thinks there is an "80s decade", "90s decade" and so on. :o No "decade" (I hate that word, it's so very stupid) has an identity, they are just filler for the most part. As bchris02 puts it, "We are always in transition."


The nostalgia critic really set him off with that Saved By The Bell comment. Though, when I saw that, I thought it was dumb, too.

Finally found it:


THE 80s WERE ALL ABOUT GETTING TO 1990! NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.  EVERYTHING FROM THE 80s WAS IN 1990 FOR THAT REASON! NOTICE HOW MTV STILL STOOD FOR MUSIC TELEVISION ONLY IN ALL OF 1990 AND THE START OF 1991. LET'S SAY "THE 80S DECADE" NEVER HAPPENED, YOU COULD LEARN EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM JUST BY STAYING IN 1990. OUR IDEALS WERE THE SAME, SLANG NEVER CHANGED AND THERE WERE STILL YUPPIES WALKING AROUND WITH THEIR BRICK CELL PHONES! THE WINTER AND SPRING SEASONS OF 1991 ARE THOUGHT OF AS 80S TODAY BECAUSE 1990 HAD JUST ENDED. ONCE THE LATTER PART OF 1991 AND ALL OF 1992 CAME AROUND, IT BEGAN LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE 1993. EVERYTHING INTRODUCED IN THE EARLY 90s (1990-Start of 1993) WAS IN 1993! THE EARLY 90S ARE THOUGHT OF AS THE 80s ON STEROIDS FOR THE MOST PART BECAUSE '91 AND '92 WEREN'T TOO FAR AWAY FROM 1990 LIKE 1993 WAS. LATE 1992 WAS MOST LIKE THE START OF 1993, BUT IT'S STILL PART OF THE EARLY 90S. BUSH 1 WAS PRESIDENT, GUYS COULD STILL WEAR NEON PINK WITHOUT BEING LABELLED AS GAY AND THE NEW DISNEY PRINCESS MOVIE (ALADDIN) WAS MOST LIKE THE LITTLE MERMAID (A FLICK THAT WAS STILL IN THEATERS AT THE START OF 1990  ;)).

I'm sorry about the tone but I get tired of people talking about the 80s like they had an identity all to themselves.  >:( The 80s were one LONG transitional time, that's it. When you ignore the existence of 1978 and 1990, the 80s decade is still one of great change. The 80s are nothing more than 1978 becoming 1990!!! So those "late 80s holdovers" ::) are nothing more than early 90s pop culture icons because we didn't really know of them in the late 80s like we did in the early 90s. Look at who's on a TV Guide cover from 1991 sometime, you'll understand where I'm coming from. Ask Matt Groening which year he'd love to go back to. Spoiler alert, he's not going to say 1987. The answer will most definitely be 1990!!!  I'm guessing that Ren and Stimpy and Beavis and Butthead were "early 90s holdovers" to you. :o

I'm sure you were old enough to know how important Beavis and Butthead were to the 1993-1996 era. They were nobodies in late 1992, but they blew up in 1993 like Bart Simpson  did overnight in 1990.

EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. THE LORD'S WORK IS IN EVERYTHING.


THE LORD'S WORK IS IN EVERYTHING! HE CONTROLS THE POP CULTURE! JESUS WANTED 1990 TO HAPPEN THE WAY IT DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yep, many faces of 1978 left us as the 80s began looking more like 1990. Marvin Gaye died in that year, also. Coincidence, I think not. ;)

Everything has it's place. Things usually happen for a reason. GOD IS IN CONTROL, BELIEVE ME!!!


GOD IS IN CONTROL! JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/19/16 at 8:41 am


You aren't correcting me, though. I still stand firmly behind my latest beliefs.


That post wasn't meant to correct you. He just sounds awfully similar to you. Like it was your DA account.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/19/16 at 4:13 pm

I don't get this one, though. He called you a "bitter old ass", how's that mean "the good lord", Early 90s Dude?

Bitter old asses are the new Ninja Turtles.

The nostalgia critic really set him off with that Saved By The Bell comment. Though, when I saw that, I thought it was dumb, too.

Maybe James Rolfe would bring him a little more comfort.  After all, he explicitly stated that he saw the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie as the "end of the 80s and beginning of the 90s," even though he said that in the late 80s everyone he knew "couldn't get enough of them, even though it was everywhere."

THE LORD'S WORK IS IN EVERYTHING! HE CONTROLS THE POP CULTURE! JESUS WANTED 1990 TO HAPPEN THE WAY IT DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose Jesus couldn't care less, though, that Ronald Reagan became President in 1981 with the sole purpose to bring America back to its God-fearing glory.  He cared not about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the resurgence of American patriotism, but rather George Bush, Sr. being in his second year as President of the United States.

Also, Marvin Gaye died in 1984, not 1990.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/19/16 at 5:40 pm


Most of what you just listed is proof that 1993 is indeed more early 90s than mid-90s.  Ren & Stimpy, Wayne's World, the Addams Family movies, and the Sister act films were so clearly confined to the early 90s and aren't truly definitive to the few years afterwards.  Even Barney & Friends has already been on television since April 1992, not to mention the character Barney was introduced back in the late 80s through Barney & the Backyard Gang.


Ren & Stimpy, Wayne's World, Sister's Act and the first Addam Family film were all new to us in the early '90s (1990,1991, and 1992). In '93, you either anticipated the sequels and saw them in theaters or avoided them. The general public had the other films and their very own sequel theories by then to base their opinions on. I'm sorry to break it to you, but '93 felt nothing like the three years that came before it. Z. Cavaricci pants were "out" in that year, if I recall correctly.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/19/16 at 5:46 pm


Then who's it for?  ::)


People who love watching the film Clueless every week.  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/19/16 at 5:55 pm


This is one thing that I agree with TheEarly90sGuy on. The 90s were in full swing by 93.


It was starting to feel a little more like the first six months of 1999 in 1993, but the '90s were in full swing from January 1st of 1990 onward.

I know it can be a little hard to believe that baggy jeans, Law and Order, and Bath & Body Works all first appeared in 1990, but they did.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/19/16 at 5:57 pm

1993 still had late 80's/very early 90's fashion around, hair metal and other 80's influences were at its very last legs, and a lot of the commercials the year had could pass for being made in 1988/89. However, a lot of 90's fads and trends were already at their culmination, Clinton was inaugurated, and Jurassic Park came that year. Overall, I would say that the year was in between the early 90's and the core 90's. The core 90's in my opinion was 1994-1997.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/19/16 at 6:05 pm


Pardon me, but 1990 was not a 90s year, culturally.


The first six months of 1990 were the strongest days of the 1990s, in my opinion.

At that time, there was not that many '00s pop culture institutions (i.e. Law and Order) moving in, so '90s culture (i.e. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) was at the forefront of almost everyone's mind.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/19/16 at 6:08 pm


The first six months of 1990 were the strongest days of the 1990s, in my opinion.

At that time, there was not that many '00s pop culture institutions (i.e. Law and Order) moving in, so '90s culture (i.e. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) was at the forefront of almost everyone's mind.


I think that 2000 had a much stronger 90's feel than 1990 did.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/19/16 at 6:18 pm


I think that 2000 had a much stronger 90's feel than 1990 did.


By 1999, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, MC Hammer, Bell Biv DeVoe, and Transformers were no longer popular.  New movies to old franchises like Star Wars Episode I:  The Phantom Menace and The World Is Not Enough were not in the same vein as anything the popular in the early 90s like the Star Wars NES game or License to Kill (which was released on VHS in 1990).

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/19/16 at 6:26 pm


By 1999, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, MC Hammer, Bell Biv DeVoe, and Transformers were no longer popular.  New movies to old franchises like Star Wars Episode I:  The Phantom Menace and The World Is Not Enough were not in the same vein as anything the popular in the early 90s like the Star Wars NES game or License to Kill (which was released on VHS in 1990).


But the spirit of 1990 still went on until at least early 1999!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/19/16 at 7:27 pm


The first six months of 1990 were the strongest days of the 1990s, in my opinion.

At that time, there was not that many '00s pop culture institutions (i.e. Law and Order) moving in, so '90s culture (i.e. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) was at the forefront of almost everyone's mind.


So.. pretty much anything from Law and Order belongs to the '00s, even though the show premiered during 1990? What the f*ck is with your logic? Pretty much anything that isn't The Simpsons, TMNT, Back to the Future, NES, SNES, Family Matters, and every early 90s sitcom are all related to the '00s, according to you.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/19/16 at 7:28 pm


It was starting to feel a little more like the first six months of 1999 in 1993, but the '90s were in full swing from January 1st of 1990 onward.

I know it can be a little hard to believe that baggy jeans, Law and Order, and Bath & Body Works all first appeared in 1990, but they did.


This must be a troll post. xD

There's no way anybody's going to believe with that, man.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/19/16 at 7:34 pm


People who love watching the film Clueless every week.  ;D


Wasn't the film released in 1995? I thought you hated anything related to the mid-late 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/19/16 at 9:51 pm


So.. pretty much anything from Law and Order belongs to the '00s, even though the show premiered during 1990? What the f*ck is with your logic? Pretty much anything that isn't The Simpsons, TMNT, Back to the Future, NES, SNES, Family Matters, and every early 90s sitcom are all related to the '00s, according to you.


The only thing that matters to him is which cultural decade something had been out from DAY 1.  Indiana Jones, for example, did not yet exist in 1978-1980, which TheEarly90sGuy considers the beginning of the 80s, but the franchise was in existence for 100% of the 1990s, even though no new films came out that decade; it's the River Phoenix tv show, VHS ports of the original trilogy, Fate of Atlantis game from 1992, and Indiana Jones Adventures opening in 1995 that truly define the franchise, not the theatrical films or pop cultural rip-offs that came out throughout the 1980s.

Jurassic Park, on the other hand, may have originally come out during the 90s (even the original novel was from 1990), but the first two movies, the numerous arcade and Sega games, toy kits, Weird Al parody, similarly-spirited Godzilla movie, t-shirts, Universal Studios Ride, etc. from 1993-1998 were only building up to these things:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Warpath_Jurassic_Park.jpg

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/lego/images/0/08/JPIII.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100312113420

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DMXYQEJPL.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yCrMAd4nL._SX342_.jpg

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 10:03 pm


This must be a troll post. xD

There's no way anybody's going to believe with that, man.


Dude, Jesus has taken the wheel. God's hand is in play, believe you me!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/19/16 at 10:28 pm


Bitter old asses are the new Ninja Turtles.


No wonder he thinks so highly of being called a "bitter old ass". The man loves his Turtles. ::)


Maybe James Rolfe would bring him a little more comfort.  After all, he explicitly stated that he saw the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie as the "end of the 80s and beginning of the 90s," even though he said that in the late 80s everyone he knew "couldn't get enough of them, even though it was everywhere."


That whole "it was everywhere" comment might freak out the Early 90's Guy. As you see, James was born in 1981 (is that right?) which isn't enough. I was born in 1982 but I did not live the early 90's like he did being born in 1977. Only 1997 (hahaha, holy sh!t I can't believe I accidentally typed this! 1997 borns must be the "biggest pansies" in the Early 90s Guy's eyes!) 1977 borns can truly understand the early 90's (nevermind the fact that my older brother was born in 1977. Older sibling experience doesn't rub off, you know).


I suppose Jesus couldn't care less, though, that Ronald Reagan became President in 1981 with the sole purpose to bring America back to its God-fearing glory.  He cared not about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the resurgence of American patriotism, but rather George Bush, Sr. being in his second year as President of the United States.


Jesus cares more about the TMNT premier in 1990 than anything concerning Reagan. You know Early 90s Guy has a valid argument when he brings Jesus into it. Jesus is at the wheel here, he knows what he's doing. Color me sold. If this is Jesus' work then Early 90's Guy must have the facts. A messenger of Christ, if you will.


Also, Marvin Gaye died in 1984, not 1990.


The only reason he died was so we could get to 1990 when this came out:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a8/CollectionMPG.jpg/220px-CollectionMPG.jpg


It was starting to feel a little more like the first six months of 1999 in 1993, but the '90s were in full swing from January 1st of 1990 onward.

I know it can be a little hard to believe that baggy jeans, Law and Order, and Bath & Body Works all first appeared in 1990, but they did.




Nooooo. Nobody ever wore baggy jeans in the 80's! Oh no, never!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/20/16 at 7:19 am


Wasn't the film released in 1995? I thought you hated anything related to the mid-late 90s.


That's what I thought.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/20/16 at 5:59 pm


But the spirit of 1990 still went on until at least early 1999!


Seinfeld, Geraldo, Married with Children, and Unsolved Mysteries were all gone by early '99.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/20/16 at 6:03 pm


So.. pretty much anything from Law and Order belongs to the '00s, even though the show premiered during 1990? What the f*ck is with your logic? Pretty much anything that isn't The Simpsons, TMNT, Back to the Future, NES, SNES, Family Matters, and every early 90s sitcom are all related to the '00s, according to you.


The show premiered on September 13th of 1990 and went off the air in May of 2010. It was around for just about every month of every year in the 2000s, so it was on longer in the 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/20/16 at 6:06 pm


That's what I thought.


I was answering your question from a page back, Howard.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/20/16 at 6:16 pm


I think that 2000 had a much stronger 90's feel than 1990 did.


The '90s pop culture institutions were born in the '80s.
The '00s pop culture phenomenons were birthed in the '90s.
The '10s pop culture icons were beared in the '00s.
The 2020s pop culture characters are starting to appear in this time, the 2010s.

That's how time works. We are always pushing forward with each passing period and never staying still.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/20/16 at 6:31 pm


The show premiered on September 13th of 1990 and went off the air in May of 2010. It was around for just about every month of every year in the 2000s, so it was on longer in the 2000s.


The show also existed from June to December 2010, as well as all of 2011! :)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/20/16 at 6:33 pm


The show also existed from June to December 2010, as well as all of 2011! :)


Thank you, I forgot about that fact.

It was still on longer in the 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/20/16 at 9:21 pm


Seinfeld, Geraldo, Married with Children, and Unsolved Mysteries were all gone by early '99.


Married with Children was gone before early 1998 and the Robert Stack Unsolved Mysteries ran from 1987 to 2002.


The '90s pop culture institutions were born in the '80s.
The '00s pop culture phenomenons were birthed in the '90s.
The '10s pop culture icons were beared in the '00s.
The 2020s pop culture characters are starting to appear in this time, the 2010s.

That's how time works. We are always pushing forward with each passing period and never staying still.


That doesn't make any god damn sense! How's your "time moves forward" crap have to do with any of this? If anything, time moving forward works against your argument.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/21/16 at 8:32 am


Thank you, I forgot about that fact.

It was still on longer in the 2000s.


Hahahaha you're making me laugh now. I'm pretty sure that Law and Order was more popular in the 90's than it was during the 00's. What's next, are you going to say that Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are 00's games just because they spent more time in the 00's than the 90's yet they peaked during the 90's?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 8:55 am


The show premiered on September 13th of 1990 and went off the air in May of 2010. It was around for just about every month of every year in the 2000s, so it was on longer in the 2000s.


It was also on every year during the 90s. Hell, even the 90s and 2000s had equally 10 seasons during Law and Order's run. Therefore, they weren't making more new episodes in the 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 8:58 am


Hahahaha you're making me laugh now. I'm pretty sure that Law and Order was more popular in the 90's than it was during the 00's. What's next, are you going to say that Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are 00's games just because they spent more time in the 00's than the 90's yet they peaked during the 90's?


He'll probably say that, since he thinks that anything made during the 90s were '00s phenomenons.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 9:23 am


He'll probably say that, since he thinks that anything made during the 90s were '00s phenomenons.


The man thinks Beavis and Butthead, f*cking Beavis and Butthead, are 2000's things because they showed re-runs back in 2005! Does that make sense!?!!?

And Early 90s Guy, people wore baggy pants throughout the 80's too! They did not magically appear out our asses in 1990!!

By the way he posted a new comic:

http://pre13.deviantart.net/af78/th/pre/i/2016/051/2/e/kindler__gentler_america___cry_for_help_by_hesalive-d9sj8cq.jpg

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/art/Kindler-Gentler-America-Cry-for-Help-592122122

Why's the main character look like he's 70? Should a high school student, I dunnooo... Look like they're in High School? I'll say, the coloring has gotten a lot better. Judging by the other ones, it looks like he drew them with pen, scanned them and filled the color in with MS paint.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 10:24 am


The man thinks Beavis and Butthead, f*cking Beavis and Butthead, are 2000's things because they showed re-runs back in 2005! Does that make sense!?!!?

And Early 90s Guy, people wore baggy pants throughout the 80's too! They did not magically appear out our asses in 1990!!


Wasn't Beavis and Butthead obviously part of the 90s? That's like saying Seinfeld is a 2000s show since they shown reruns on The CW since the late 2000s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 10:35 am


Wasn't Beavis and Butthead obviously part of the 90s? That's like saying Seinfeld is a 2000s show since they shown reruns on The CW since the late 2000s.


Exactly! Beavis and Butthead defined the 90's to a T. Everything that era was was Beavis and Butthead!! Buuuuttt, to Early 90s Guy (the expert), Beavis and Butthead is a 00's thing because of re-runs. No, not the time it actually aired and was relevent. No, no... Re-runs! The time the re-runs aired was it's time!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 12:35 pm

93 is a transitional year. I don't believe it is either a core '90s year, or an early 90s year, but it was a bit of both. In my other thread, I posted high school pictures from 1981 through 1996. A High School picture from 1992-1993 is rather indistinguishable from one from 1988-1989. I would say the first half of 1993 was an early '90s year, with core '90s influences creeping in, while the second half was more of a core '90s year with early '90s influences still hanging on. If you look at 1993-1994 school year photos, you can still see big teased hair, and other late 80s/early 90s hallmarks on women and similar hairdos on men, but for every girl who has a big teased cut, there's 2 more two have the more definitive "90s" cuts.

As to the Early90sGuy's claims, I've never heard such ridiculousness. Law & Order was a hallmark of the 1990s. It was arguably even more huge than than it was in the 2000s. It was so huge that by 1993, just three years after starting, there was a mural put up celebrating the show when my parents and I visited Disney World in early May 1993.

Unsolved Mysteries, too, was a '90s show. It debuted in 1987, but hit it's peak of popularity in the early-mid 90s and then slowly faded out until 2002. People watched that show all the time in the '90s...Not so much in the '00s. It was still around, yes, but nowhere near as relevant as it had been.

Same goes for The Simpsons. The Simpsons started in 1989, but at the end very end of 1989, in December. The peak of it's popularity, as well (in many opinions) the peak of its creativity in the early-mid 1990s. Most Simpsons fans say the first 10 seasons (Season 10 ending May 1999) are the only truly important seasons - or truly 'great' seasons. But going by TheEarly90sGuy's logic, because The Simpsons has aired for the majority of the 2010s, it's a 2010s show.

Friends didn't debut until 1994, but is anyone going to deny that that show is one of the very cornerstones of '90s pop culture? Maybe TheEarly90sGuy will.

As far as his claim that baggy jeans was a "00s" thing?

This pic from the '90s disagrees:
https://pymca.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pymca_00025575.jpg?w=774

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 12:43 pm

1993 is definitely a transition year but I'd say it leans more towards the core 90's than early. If you ask me, it wasn't until 1994 that we were solidly in the 90's.

Early 90s Guy will say the Simpsons is a 90's show because it existed "from day 1 of 1990 to 1999" and Law and Order? Well it existed from day 1 of 1999 to 2011 (the "historical" and cultural 00's) so it must be a 00's show. The 2nd and 3rd decades don't matter, it's the "first full decade" that's important. He has stupid arbitrary starting points of the decades, too. 1999 started the 00's and 2011 started the 10's. Why? There was a Jurassic Park PS1 game in 1999 and an American Pie boxset in 2011. That's why. He says baggy pants are a 90's thing because baggy pants hit the shelves exactly as 1990 began despite the 80's also having their fair share of baggy pants.

Why's every decade have HUGE build-ups to such small, insignificant culminations? Maybe his theory mirrors his sex life. ;)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 02/21/16 at 2:19 pm


Hahahaha you're making me laugh now. I'm pretty sure that Law and Order was more popular in the 90's than it was during the 00's. What's next, are you going to say that Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are 00's games just because they spent more time in the 00's than the 90's yet they peaked during the 90's?


At what point in the '90s would you say it was popular, The Burger King?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:19 pm


1993 is definitely a transition year but I'd say it leans more towards the core 90's than early. If you ask me, it wasn't until 1994 that we were solidly in the 90's.

Early 90s Guy will say the Simpsons is a 90's show because it existed "from day 1 of 1990 to 1999" and Law and Order? Well it existed from day 1 of 1999 to 2011 (the "historical" and cultural 00's) so it must be a 00's show. The 2nd and 3rd decades don't matter, it's the "first full decade" that's important. He has stupid arbitrary starting points of the decades, too. 1999 started the 00's and 2011 started the 10's. Why? There was a Jurassic Park PS1 game in 1999 and an American Pie boxset in 2011. That's why. He says baggy pants are a 90's thing because baggy pants hit the shelves exactly as 1990 began despite the 80's also having their fair share of baggy pants.

Why's every decade have HUGE build-ups to such small, insignificant culminations? Maybe his theory mirrors his sex life. ;)


Baggy pants did not exist, ever, in the history of mankind, in any form, until midnight, 1st January, 1990, just for clarification.

Jurassic Park? Mega success in 1993, biggest movie of all-time up to that point. But the series began in 1993, and the mega hit of the original was only just paving the way for the greatness that was Jurassic Park III, another uber mega hit. So, sorry Jurassic Park fans who saw the original in 1993 and loved it, you were watching a '00s film.

Oh, and Wayne's World? Anyone remember that movie? Yeah, well, it was HUGE, HUGE I tell you in the 2000s. What? It came out in 1992? That just solidifies my point, it was a '00s thing, it started after midnight on 1st January 1990, it's a 2000s thing. The hair metal scene and mullets were HUGE in the 00s! Huge I tell you!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 2:22 pm


At what point in the '90s would you say it was popular, The Burger King?


The early-mid 90s.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 2:22 pm


Baggy pants did not exist, ever, in the history of mankind, in any form, until midnight, 1st January, 1990, just for clarification.

Jurassic Park? Mega success in 1993, biggest movie of all-time up to that point. But the series began in 1993, and the mega hit of the original was only just paving the way for the greatness that was Jurassic Park III, another uber mega hit. So, sorry Jurassic Park fans who saw the original in 1993 and loved it, you were watching a '00s film.

Oh, and Wayne's World? Anyone remember that movie? Yeah, well, it was HUGE, HUGE I tell you in the 2000s. What? It came out in 1992? That just solidifies my point, it was a '00s thing, it started after midnight on 1st January 1990, it's a 2000s thing. The hair metal scene and mullets were HUGE in the 00s! Huge I tell you!


You gotta be joking with us.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:26 pm


At what point in the '90s would you say it was popular, The Burger King?


Oh, I don't know. This photo was taken at Universal Studios on May 4th 1993. Notice something in the background?
http://s15.postimg.org/58fup379n/mural_1.jpg

Hang on, a supposedly 39 year old guy might need glasses, I'll help you out:
http://s15.postimg.org/tawojynwr/mural_2.jpg

IN CASE YOU NEED ANY FURTHER HELP SEEING IT:
http://s28.postimg.org/rwh2e7ba5/mural_2_1.jpg

I don't know, a huge f---king portrait for it at Universal Studios in Florida is probably indicative that it was pretty big in 1993. You know, just a guess.

But nope, I'm sorry, the digital date stamp on my camera must've been wrong, or we momentarily time traveled ten years into the future, because Law and Order was clearly a '00s thing!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 2:30 pm


Oh, I don't know. This photo was taken at Universal Studios on May 4th 1993. Notice something in the background?
http://s15.postimg.org/58fup379n/mural_1.jpg

Hang on, a supposedly 39 year old guy might need glasses, I'll help you out:
http://s15.postimg.org/tawojynwr/mural_2.jpg

I don't know, a huge f---king portrait for it at Universal Studios in Florida is probably indicative that it was pretty big in 1993. You know, just a guess.

But nope, I'm sorry, the digital date stamp on my camera must've been wrong, or we momentarily time traveled ten years into the future, because Law and Order was clearly a '00s thing!


You can't be serious with this sh*t.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:31 pm


You can't be serious with this sh*t.

I'm not The Early 90's Guy!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 2:32 pm

It was there in 1993 because in 1993 we were getting closer to the first few months of 1999, the historical beginnings of the 00's.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 2:36 pm

Zoomed in some more just in case the ol' Early 90s Guy needs some more help:

https://i.gyazo.com/b5f460ca184bd5894c63479f4c40602d.png

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 2:38 pm


I'm not The Early 90's Guy!


So, were you joking with us?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:39 pm


So, were you joking with us?


Yes.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 2:42 pm

Early 90s Guy and 90s Guy have a long history with each other. He calls himself "90s Guy" but this won't fly with Man of the Early 90s because he's a "pansy Millennial who was born after 1987" who wouldn't understand every nook and cranny of the early 90's like Mr. Hesalive does. Of course, if you tell him that you miss 1989 because of Reagan (or "Ronniebear" as some like to say), he'll freak because HW was the president for most of the year. Next thing you know it, he'll probably talk about how Jesus is in control.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:43 pm


It was there in 1993 because in 1993 we were getting closer to the first few months of 1999, the historical beginnings of the 00's.


You know, I barely remember 1993, but I remember all the talk about Y2K in the early months of 1993. That Blink 182 band was huge. HUGE I TELL YOU! 1993, and 1999, you look back, you can't tell the difference, I mean, they might as well be sister years. 1993 was just leading up to the election of Bush in 2000. Doom was an utterly contemporary game in 1999, graphically and otherwise. 1978 was all leading up to this. Jimmy Carter in cooperation with the CIA using stolen alien technology from Area 51 made this so.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/21/16 at 2:46 pm


Seinfeld, Geraldo, Married with Children, and Unsolved Mysteries were all gone by early '99.


Seinfeld was gone by 1998
Married With Children was gone by 1997
Unsolved Mysteries was gone by 1999

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:47 pm


Early 90s Guy and 90s Guy have a long history with each other. He calls himself "90s Guy" but this won't fly with Man of the Early 90s because he's a "pansy Millennial who was born after 1987" who wouldn't understand every nook and cranny of the early 90's like Mr. Hesalive does. Of course, if you tell him that you miss 1989 because of Reagan (or "Ronniebear" as some like to say), he'll freak because HW was the president for most of the year. Next thing you know it, he'll probably talk about how Jesus is in control.


George H.W. Bush was the greatest president ever elected. Ronniebear chose him hisself, he sure did. Jesus took control on 20 January 1991. A year dominated solely by HW, my friend. 1989, you see, was part of the 19780s. An era of time which began in 1978, and ended only in that bright, shiny, neon spandex year of 1990. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 2:48 pm


Seinfeld was gone by 1998
Married With Children was gone by 1997
Unsolved Mysteries was gone by 1999


Unsolved ended in 2002.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/21/16 at 2:49 pm


Oh, I don't know. This photo was taken at Universal Studios on May 4th 1993. Notice something in the background?
http://s15.postimg.org/58fup379n/mural_1.jpg

Hang on, a supposedly 39 year old guy might need glasses, I'll help you out:
http://s15.postimg.org/tawojynwr/mural_2.jpg

IN CASE YOU NEED ANY FURTHER HELP SEEING IT:
http://s28.postimg.org/rwh2e7ba5/mural_2_1.jpg

I don't know, a huge f---king portrait for it at Universal Studios in Florida is probably indicative that it was pretty big in 1993. You know, just a guess.

But nope, I'm sorry, the digital date stamp on my camera must've been wrong, or we momentarily time traveled ten years into the future, because Law and Order was clearly a '00s thing!


Charles In Charge

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 2:53 pm


You know, I barely remember 1993, but I remember all the talk about Y2K in the early months of 1993. That Blink 182 band was huge. HUGE I TELL YOU! 1993, and 1999, you look back, you can't tell the difference, I mean, they might as well be sister years. 1993 was just leading up to the election of Bush in 2000. Doom was an utterly contemporary game in 1999, graphically and otherwise. 1978 was all leading up to this. Jimmy Carter in cooperation with the CIA using stolen alien technology from Area 51 made this so.


I, being a huge Pop Punk fan, know that after blink-182 formed in 1992, they blew up in 1993. That's why they played small club and basement shows until 1997. If you really look at it, there have been no cultural changes since 1993. We had Playstations in stores everywhere in 1995 and today, in 2016, we still have Playstations in stores everywhere. Dilbert comics didn't have "WWW." at the bottoms of the panels in 1992 but they did in 1993. Bath and Body Works, a staple of the 21st century, started in 1990. So did Baggy pants, which started on January 1st, 1990. Hard to believe it but it's true. There was no "90's decade" it was only to lead up to 1999, the historical and cultural beginnings of the 00's.


George H.W. Bush was the greatest president ever elected. Ronniebear chose him hisself, he sure did. Jesus took control on 20 January 1991. A year dominated solely by HW, my friend. 1989, you see, was part of the 19780s. An era of time which began in 1978, and ended only in that bright, shiny, neon spandex year of 1990. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.


Ronniebear and the Counsel of Super Presidents chose HW to be the extra special president of the 90's. 1989 still had the 70's vibe of the 80's, as you're aware. That vibe died in 1990 when the 70's became outdated. You see, 80's culture is only 3 things: American Bandstand, The Benny Hill Show and Days of Our Lives. These things ended in 1989 along with the 70's vibe. Everything else is not 80's culture!! It is mistaken for 80's culture but it is actually for 1990!!


Seinfeld was gone by 1998
Married With Children was gone by 1997
Unsolved Mysteries was gone by 1999


Unsolved Mysteries took a break in 2000 but came back in 2001 and 2002 so it wasn't really "gone" by 1999.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/21/16 at 2:54 pm


You know, I barely remember 1993, but I remember all the talk about Y2K in the early months of 1993. That Blink 182 band was huge. HUGE I TELL YOU! 1993, and 1999, you look back, you can't tell the difference, I mean, they might as well be sister years. 1993 was just leading up to the election of Bush in 2000.


Wait a second, blink-182 was HUGE in 1993?  Technically they were together that year, but all they had at the time was the Flyswatter EP, not even Buddha or Cheshire Cat yet.  Oh well, I guess the release date of Flyswatter remains the same.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 2:57 pm


Wait a second, blink-182 was HUGE in 1993?  Technically they were together that year, but all they had at the time was the Flyswatter EP, not even Buddha or Cheshire Cat yet.  Oh well, I guess the release date of Flyswatter remains the same.


Infinity, I am sure you're aware the Flyswatter tape was a huge, huge turning point for 90's culture. That small tape (which only like 50 exist) really tells us a lot. It shows how close we were to the first few months of 1999 in 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 2:59 pm


You know, I barely remember 1993, but I remember all the talk about Y2K in the early months of 1993. That Blink 182 band was huge. HUGE I TELL YOU! 1993, and 1999, you look back, you can't tell the difference, I mean, they might as well be sister years. 1993 was just leading up to the election of Bush in 2000. Doom was an utterly contemporary game in 1999, graphically and otherwise. 1978 was all leading up to this. Jimmy Carter in cooperation with the CIA using stolen alien technology from Area 51 made this so.


http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55763182.jpg

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:01 pm

Remember guys, if you missed out on reading his DeviantArt journals, Google still has the cache right here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q_wbKfhddCIJ:hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Enjoy!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 3:04 pm


Remember guys, if you missed out on reading his DeviantArt journals, Google still has the cache right here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q_wbKfhddCIJ:hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Enjoy!


I just commented on his DA profile.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/ Scroll down to the comment section to see what I mean.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:06 pm


I just commented on his DA profile.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/ Scroll down to the comment section to see what I mean.


I can't wait to see how he responds to that! ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 3:11 pm


I can't wait to see how he responds to that! ;D


What's better is that he now knows my DA. So, I can actually fool with him here and DA.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:15 pm


What's better is that he now knows my DA. So, I can actually fool with him here and DA.


Perfect! Now you can have endless arguments with the man himself! Mr. Early 90s Guy!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:16 pm

Is there any way to read TheEarly90'sGuys deviantart journals? Please tell me one of you did a copy and paste?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/21/16 at 3:18 pm


Is there any way to read TheEarly90'sGuys deviantart journals? Please tell me one of you did a copy and paste?


I think Jordan has some of his DA journals saved.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:20 pm


Is there any way to read TheEarly90'sGuys deviantart journals? Please tell me one of you did a copy and paste?


Here's the web cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q_wbKfhddCIJ:hesalive.deviantart.com/journal/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:28 pm

Is it just me, or does this caption on his pic sound very Patrick Bateman's-esque?

"Some people say it was the mid to late '80s, others believe it was the mid to late '90s, but I cannot help but think we were in the golden age from '87 to '93. People who were not even rap fans were wearing the sideways cap from 1990 to 1992. Nowadays, I know some people look at that as a very campy thing to do, but a lot of us thought of rap as fad in those days. :D"

Like one of the monologues on pop-culture Bateman would give before murdering someone?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:31 pm

Compare the writing style of his DA post above, to this actual monologue by fictional '00s serial killer Patrick Bateman below:

"You like Huey Lewis and the News? Their early work was a little too new wave for my taste, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor. In '87, Huey released this, Fore!, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to Be Square," a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself!"

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:32 pm


Is it just me, or does this caption on his pic sound very Patrick Bateman's-esque?

"Some people say it was the mid to late '80s, others believe it was the mid to late '90s, but I cannot help but think we were in the golden age from '87 to '93. People who were not even rap fans were wearing the sideways cap from 1990 to 1992. Nowadays, I know some people look at that as a very campy thing to do, but a lot of us thought of rap as fad in those days. :D"

Like one of the monologues on pop-culture Bateman would give before murdering someone?



Compare the writing style of his DA post above, to this actual monologue by fictional '00s serial killer Patrick Bateman below:

"You like Huey Lewis and the News? Their early work was a little too new wave for my taste, but when Sports came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far more bitter, cynical sense of humor. In '87, Huey released this, Fore!, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to Be Square," a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself!"



Hahaha, it totally does!! This is hilarious!

This one's also golden:

"I look like King Hippo feels. If I have any money left over from buying my Filas, I'm going to see Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She's a cheerleader during the day and she kills  at night…Buffy…Bufffffyyyyyyy the Vampire Slayer, starring Kristy Swanson."

"Bufffffyyyyyy"

What the hell is he doing? I guess the thought of Buffy excites him a little too much.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:37 pm


Hahaha, it totally does!! This is hilarious!

This one's also golden:

"I look like King Hippo feels. If I have any money left over from buying my Filas, I'm going to see Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She's a cheerleader during the day and she kills  at night…Buffy…Bufffffyyyyyyy the Vampire Slayer, starring Kristy Swanson."

"Bufffffyyyyyy"

What the hell is he doing? I guess the thought of Buffy excites him a little too much.


That's TENG (new shorthand for our pal) having an orgasm in written form. Splooge all over his Windows 3.1 (accept no sub-par post-1992 substitutions) screen bitmap image of Buffy.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:44 pm


That's TENG (new shorthand for our pal) having an orgasm in written form. Splooge all over his Windows 3.1 (accept no sub-par post-1992 substitutions) screen bitmap image of Buffy.


I bet his was this HUUUUGGGEEE build-up which culminated into this tiny climax. A little "ploop!" if you will.

OH BUFFY!

The aforementioned picture:
https://i.gyazo.com/d5974811da434121eb414df6edf60d45.png

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:47 pm


I bet his was this HUUUUGGGEEE build-up which culminated into this tiny climax. A little "ploop!" if you will.

OH BUFFY!

The aforementioned picture:
https://i.gyazo.com/d5974811da434121eb414df6edf60d45.png


That orgasm was building up inside him from 1978. The 'touchy feely' 90s and dubious secret handshakes with friends aside, that great anticlimax to Buffy, ruining the Windows 3.1 screen, was brought you in 2015 from all the way back in '78.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 3:52 pm


That orgasm was building up inside him from 1978. The 'touchy feely' 90s and dubious secret handshakes with friends aside, that great anticlimax to Buffy, ruining the Windows 3.1 screen, was brought you in 2015 from all the way back in '78.


This, ladies and gentlemen, is the spirit of '90 in writing:


You could pop off their arms ands legs too. The realistic feeling skin made them so slammin' and sweet (pardon my early 90s slang). They were the best action figures of the early 90s, if you ask me. They go for a lot on Ebay now, but they turn up in action figure lots from time to time. Have you seen the Movie Star Splinter with the fur made of felt? I used to take my cousin to get all of the latest TMNT action figures, so I knew all about them. Rhazar was one of the hardest figures to find.


If you really think about it, the roots of 2015 began in 1965 with the premiere of Days of Our Lives. 1990 was phase 2 and 1999 was phase 3 of this transition.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 3:56 pm


This, ladies and gentlemen, is the spirit of '90 in writing:

If you really think about it, the roots of 2015 began in 1965 with the premiere of Days of Our Lives. 1990 was phase 2 and 1999 was phase 3 of this transition.


He sounds a little too thrilled with the idea of popping off the arms and legs of action figures that have "slammin' and sweet" realistic skin texture, doesn't he?

I don't know about you, I may be a poor impoverished 1990 guy who grew up in the shadow of the dark times, the Clinton years, but I have older siblings and I have old home videos, some of them older, some of them younger than TENG, and the phrase "slammin' and sweet" is never uttered. But, a guy who was born in 1977 would know a lot more about growing up in the '80s than my sister who was born in 1972, unfortunately for her.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 4:01 pm


He sounds a little too thrilled with the idea of popping off the arms and legs of action figures that have "slammin' and sweet" realistic skin texture, doesn't he?

I don't know about you, I may be a poor impoverished 1990 guy who grew up in the shadow of the dark times, the Clinton years, but I have older siblings and I have old home videos, some of them older, some of them younger than TENG, and the phrase "slammin' and sweet" is never uttered. But, a guy who was born in 1977 would know a lot more about growing up in the '80s than my sister who was born in 1972, unfortunately for her.


That's exactly what I thought! It seems said "friend" of his also got up to more than a simple handsake:


The early 90s were TOO GREAT to be grouped with those bland Clinton years. Yes, they may be a part of the 90s decade, but George HW Bush was president. Those times were VERY different from '93 to '99. Yes, I do always bring up pop culture from the early 90s because the period is underrated. Sadly, those years don't get enough recognition from a good portion of people. I am an early 90s fan for life! Hypercolor was the greatest idea ever. I had so much fun touching my friends shirt to see my hand imprint in February of 1992. I'll never forget. I refuse to get over the early 90s because you told me so. Who made you the queen of this message board? Just because your name is Katana Queen doesn't mean you go bossing people around. You can simply ignore my messages if you can't stand them. I "rag on people's childhoods" because I was of age to see the real 90s for what they were. The last thing America needs is a generation with a very poor taste in pop culture. You seem to forget one day a millennial will be President. Also, I'll be seated in a nursing home next to a millennial.  I have cousins like everyone else, so yes, I was exposed to the toys and cartoons of the 1990s.

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE, HONEY! The first amendment grants me the freedom to free speech. All of my talk about the early 90s is getting old TO YOU! Get over yourself, princess! The world doesn't revolve around you!


He says that he'd know more about the 80's and 90's than someone born in 1966 so I think you're 1972 sister is outta luck! He also told poor ol' 1982 me that I didn't grow up in the early 90's the "same way he did" or else I'd understand his point of view. It's not like my brother was born in 1977 or anything.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 4:08 pm


That's exactly what I thought! It seems said "friend" of his also got up to more than a simple handsake:

He says that he'd know more about the 80's and 90's than someone born in 1966 so I think you're 1972 sister is outta luck! He also told poor ol' 1982 me that I didn't grow up in the early 90's the "same way he did" or else I'd understand his point of view. It's not like my brother was born in 1977 or anything.


You know, I may be a horrible person, since I was born in '90 after all, but I actually have memories of making those kind of shirts with my '72 born sister in around 1993. Very faint, and distant memories, but memories regardless that can't be any later than December 1993. But, gosh darnit, it didn't occur in calendar year 1992 so my memory doesn't count. Oh well.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 4:12 pm


You know, I may be a horrible person, since I was born in '90 after all, but I actually have memories of making those kind of shirts with my '72 born sister in around 1993. Very faint, and distant memories, but memories regardless that can't be any later than December 1993. But, gosh darnit, it didn't occur in calendar year 1992 so my memory doesn't count. Oh well.


That memory in 1993 was only a transition to get us to the year 1999. In 1993, we were closer to the first few months of '99 so you might as well have made those kinda shirts in 2005 or something. You didn't live the spirit of '90 like he did. Playing with slammin' turtle skins, touching your friends and giving them "secret handsakes" and, of course, "gazing at Kelly Kapowski" as she killed Saturday morning cartoons (despite this, he still goes on endlessly about the TMNT).

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/21/16 at 4:20 pm


That memory in 1993 was only a transition to get us to the year 1999. In 1993, we were closer to the first few months of '99 so you might as well have made those kinda shirts in 2005 or something. You didn't live the spirit of '90 like he did. Playing with slammin' turtle skins, touching your friends and giving them "secret handsakes" and, of course, "gazing at Kelly Kapowski" as she killed Saturday morning cartoons (despite this, he still goes on endlessly about the TMNT).


You know, why did touching your friends stop? It was such a cool thing back in the day! Then touchy feely Clinton came in with those so-called "sexual harassment" laws and that whole touchy feely idea of personal space and I couldn't go just rubbing my hands all over my friends' shirts. What a bummer, man. And yes, that's an early '90s word. It was used before 1993, don't let any horrible '90s kid tell you any different.

And secret handshakes? Aw shucks, now you're making me sentimental. Sadly, secret handshakes ended on January 20th 1993. A day which will live in infamy.

I'll always have my portrait of Ronniebear in the closet along with my TMNT life size standee to make me know that once upon a time, the world was safe and free. I'll sit in my closet, gaze up into Ronniebear's sweet, kind, manly, grandfatherly eyes, and I'll feel warm, safe and protected. His portrait will whisper in my ear as I cry, "It's okay, son", Ronniebear will say, "1990 will always be with you. In your heart, where the spirit of America lives on." And with his gentle blessed hand, he'll wipe away my tears as God Bless The U.S.A. begins to play and George H.W. Bush comes in the closet with us to embark on a slammin' good time!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 5:19 pm


You know, why did touching your friends stop? It was such a cool thing back in the day! Then touchy feely Clinton came in with those so-called "sexual harassment" laws and that whole touchy feely idea of personal space and I couldn't go just rubbing my hands all over my friends' shirts. What a bummer, man. And yes, that's an early '90s word. It was used before 1993, don't let any horrible '90s kid tell you any different.

And secret handshakes? Aw shucks, now you're making me sentimental. Sadly, secret handshakes ended on January 20th 1993. A day which will live in infamy.

I'll always have my portrait of Ronniebear in the closet along with my TMNT life size standee to make me know that once upon a time, the world was safe and free. I'll sit in my closet, gaze up into Ronniebear's sweet, kind, manly, grandfatherly eyes, and I'll feel warm, safe and protected. His portrait will whisper in my ear as I cry, "It's okay, son", Ronniebear will say, "1990 will always be with you. In your heart, where the spirit of America lives on." And with his gentle blessed hand, he'll wipe away my tears as God Bless The U.S.A. begins to play and George H.W. Bush comes in the closet with us to embark on a slammin' good time!


Touching your friend's hypercolor shirts and giving 'em secret handsakes are a staple of the early 90's! Why did Clinton have to implement these new laws that prevented "unwanted psychical contacted"? In the words of Bill Cosby "What a bummer, maaannn!" Those touchy-feely 90's, man, what awful times. No more touching your friends hypercolor shirts as you gaze upon your bitmap images of Buffy the Vampire Slayer while thinking of those slammin' Turtle skins...

Every American should have a pillow like this on their bed:
http://rlv.zcache.com/official_presidential_portrait_of_ronald_reagan_throw_pillow-r8b7b60803bdb4b5a9539345ec1cb3b0d_i52ni_8byvr_630.jpg?view_padding=%5B285%2C0%2C285%2C0%5D

Ronniebear is the second greatest president. He was put into office by Jesus only as a stepping stone to get to HW, the best president ever. HW has all the realistic Turtle Skins so you'll be sure to have a slammin' good time! The spirit of the USA is the spirit of '90.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/21/16 at 6:21 pm


That's exactly what I thought! It seems said "friend" of his also got up to more than a simple handsake:

He says that he'd know more about the 80's and 90's than someone born in 1966 so I think you're 1972 sister is outta luck! He also told poor ol' 1982 me that I didn't grow up in the early 90's the "same way he did" or else I'd understand his point of view. It's not like my brother was born in 1977 or anything.
Actually, his sister has the right to remember the early 90s. I even told Early90sGuy that not everyone grew up the same way he did and he told me I was lying. Same thing with you, you remember that era as much as he does. Even my teachers (who are all almost older than him) remember the time period differently.

Oh and I asked him one day that would he have liked the mid 90s if HW won a second term and he said no.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 6:25 pm


Actually, his sister has the right to remember the early 90s. I even told Early90sGuy that not everyone grew up the same way he did and he told me I was lying. Same thing with you, you remember that era as much as he does. Even my teachers (who are all almost older than him) remember the time period differently.

Oh and I asked him one day that would he have liked the mid 90s if HW won a second term and he said no.


I agree but Early 90s Guy's logic makes no damn sense. People born in 1972 and 1966 won't remember the early 90's the same way he, a 1977 born, would!? They're probably a much more reliable source to go by! Even me, with a 1977 born brother, I didn't "experience the era" the same way he did because only if you were born in 1977 can you really know the early 90's. He says that "only people who love 1990-1992 will understand" but I love the 80's and 1990-1992 and there definitely wasn't any bullsh!t spirit of '90 build up.

Haha, yeah, I saw that argument. Even HW couldn't save mid 90's in his eyes. I don't get it, though. If he hates the 90's so much why's he say the 90's began "right at '90"!?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/21/16 at 6:30 pm


I just commented on his DA profile.

http://hesalive.deviantart.com/ Scroll down to the comment section to see what I mean.


Funny that he has a Family Guy photo on his profile, which started in 1999, one of the years that he hates.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 6:31 pm


Funny that he has a Family Guy photo on his profile, which started in 1999, one of the years that he hates.


Family Guy is also listed as one of his favorite shows, too!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/21/16 at 6:34 pm


Family Guy is also listed as one of his favorite shows, too!


Lol... ;D ;D

I sort of expected that he would have put Steve Urkel or someone like that as his profile photo.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 6:37 pm


Lol... ;D ;D

I sort of expected that he would have put Steve Urkel or someone like that as his profile photo.


Hahaha, knowing him? He'd probably put the Ninja Turtles or something. I've never seen the words "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" typed so many times in my entire life...

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/21/16 at 6:49 pm

Here's a little verse on Early 90's Sadness by TheEarly90sGuy Del Rey

I need to take a chill pill,
Early 90's Sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, cowabunga,

I got my lovely turtles
Dancing in Bayside High with Kelly
Done my hair up as a big hi-top fade
Steve Urkel, Radical!

I almost forgot that he is in love with his turtles. He probably has zoophilia.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 6:54 pm


Here's a little verse on Early 90's Sadness by TheEarly90sGuy Del Rey

I need to take a chill pill,
Early 90's Sadness
I just wanted you to know
That, baby, cowabunga,

I got my lovely turtles
Dancing in Bayside High with Kelly
Done my hair up as a big hi-top fade
Steve Urkel, Radical!

I almost forgot that he is in love with his turtles. He probably has zoophilia.




These guys are what killed Saturday morning cartoons:

https://mylittlebexi.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/saved-by-the-bell.jpg

Teens and their younger brothers would much rather gaze at Kelly Kapowski then watch The Real Ghostbusters.


He says this but what he means is:

"I would much rather gaze upon those Turtles and their magnificent half-shells. My first love was the Ninja Turtles but then came along HW Bush, Buffy and Vanilla Ice. The early 90s were a time of confusing for a young man such as myself."

I'll say one thing, 1992 Buffy was pretty hot (he ruins it with his "bufffffyyyy" sh!t, though) but his Turtles obsession (you know, the one's with the realistic slammin' skin) is really weird.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/21/16 at 7:07 pm


I agree but Early 90s Guy's logic makes no damn sense. People born in 1972 and 1966 won't remember the early 90's the same way he, a 1977 born, would!? They're probably a much more reliable source to go by! Even me, with a 1977 born brother, I didn't "experience the era" the same way he did because only if you were born in 1977 can you really know the early 90's. He says that "only people who love 1990-1992 will understand" but I love the 80's and 1990-1992 and there definitely wasn't any bullsh!t spirit of '90 build up.

Haha, yeah, I saw that argument. Even HW couldn't save mid 90's in his eyes. I don't get it, though. If he hates the 90's so much why's he say the 90's began "right at '90"!?
I know. He needs to understand that everyone is going to remember the time period differently than he does even if they're the same age.

Oh yeah, they're definitely reliable sources regarding the era (and so are others) and you're right, my family members and my teachers  know that there was no build up to 1990 as well. I think he's in a fantasy that he can't get out of.

Yeah, that's weird he says that, but doesn't give any reasons. I think one can be is that the oldest Millennials were in MS and HS at the time, so the pop culture was targeting towards them as well and and maybe he thought they ruined everything with their attitudes.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: The Burger King on 02/21/16 at 7:09 pm



He says this but what he means is:

"I would much rather gaze upon those Turtles and their magnificent half-shells. My first love was the Ninja Turtles but then came along HW Bush, Buffy and Vanilla Ice. The early 90s were a time of confusing for a young man such as myself."

I'll say one thing, 1992 Buffy was pretty hot (he ruins it with his "bufffffyyyy" sh!t, though) but his Turtles obsession (you know, the one's with the realistic slammin' skin) is really weird.


Don't even know why he is obsessed in Turtles. He is probably more obsessed in Turtles now than I was with bandicoots and dragons as a kid playing PS1 games (I did not play them when they originally came out).

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 7:15 pm


I know. He needs to understand that everyone is going to remember the time period differently than he does even if they're the same age.

Oh yeah, they're definitely reliable sources regarding the era (and so are others) and you're right, my family members and my teachers  know that there was no build up to 1990 as well. I think he's in a fantasy that he can't get out of.

Yeah, that's weird he says that, but doesn't give any reasons. I think one can be is that the oldest Millennials were in MS and HS at the time, so the pop culture was targeting towards them as well and and maybe he thought they ruined everything with their attitudes.


I like 1990 but if I were to go by what he goes by (movie sequels etc.) then I'd think 1990 was one of the most stale, washed up and boring years in human history. Thankfully, I don't do that but he isn't helping the early 90's case. That build-up theory gives me the hugest headache.

Maybe, but if he thinks 1990 is the beginning of the 90's, that's a stupid reason to hate everything post-1993.


Don't even know why he is obsessed in Turtles. He is probably more obsessed in Turtles now than I was with bandicoots and dragons as a kid playing PS1 games (I did not play them when they originally came out).


Yeah, it's real weird. I don't know what's up with him and his Turtles. 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/21/16 at 7:16 pm

Is the main character in his latest two submissions supposed to be modeled after Bush the Elder, only as a Gen-X'er instead of a G.I.'er?  Because that's actually pretty hilarious.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 7:17 pm


Is the main character in his artwork supposed to be modeled after Bush the Elder, only as a Gen-X'er instead of a G.I.'er?  Because that's actually pretty hilarious.


That would be hilarious if not for...


Well, I'll remove myself now. I see I'm not wanted here.


Thank you guys for giving me a taste of my own medicine that I apparently deserved for being such a contemptibly obnoxious person. I'm sorry for being so difficult with just about everyone on here. I did not know how to make it up to you, so I'm deleting my account.

Goodbye all, it was nice knowing you.  :\'(


Wishing you all the best,
The Early 90s Guy


R.I.P.

:\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/21/16 at 7:19 pm

Wow, bummer! :(

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 02/21/16 at 7:21 pm

Dang!! :o :(  Guys I did not expect this to get that out of hand! :\'(

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 7:22 pm

This is an empty void in my heart where the Early 90s Guy used to be. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

How am I going to make any jokes now!? Dammit, now I'll have to wait for another neurotic early 90s fan to come along!

Those fights... They were just too good!! I was laughing to myself on many nights walking to my car thinking of all the times I'd fought with him! Those Betsy's Wedding Jokes... :\'(

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/21/16 at 7:24 pm

I think we were all so fascinated by TheEarly90sGuy's unorthodox perspective of cultural decades that we celebrated it just as much as we made fun of it.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/21/16 at 7:27 pm


I like 1990 but if I were to go by what he goes by (movie sequels etc.) then I'd think 1990 was one of the most stale, washed up and boring years in human history. Thankfully, I don't do that but he isn't helping the early 90's case. That build-up theory gives me the hugest headache.

Maybe, but if he thinks 1990 is the beginning of the 90's, that's a stupid reason to hate everything post-1993.

Yeah, it's real weird. I don't know what's up with him and his Turtles.


Yeah, it would be much better if we had others speaking about the early 90s period than just him. Then we would get an interesting viewpoint.

I agree. The whole build up thing still makes no sense as many trends that began in a decade were intended for that decade., not for the next (except for a few things)

It sure is. It makes you wonder if HW was not president at the time, would Early90sGuy have loved the early 90s then?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/21/16 at 7:28 pm


I think we were all so fascinated by TheEarly90sGuy's unorthodox perspective of cultural decades that we celebrated it just as much as we made fun of it.


And the fact that he could take something so insignificant and awful like Betsy's Wedding or a picture of Molly Ringwald, Ally Sheedy and Michael Anthony Hall from 1990 and give meaning to it. He was funny and is (or was) my current favorite internet thing.

Those debates are legendary!! I thought he was going to freak out today and give us all a good wrap about the early 90's, not leave! :(


Yeah, it would be much better if we had others speaking about the early 90s period than just him. Then we would get an interesting viewpoint.

I agree. The whole build up thing still makes no sense as many trends that began in a decade were intended for that decade., not for the next (except for a few things)

It sure is. It makes wonder if HW was not president at the time, would Early90sGuy have loved the early 90s then?


It is interesting but too bad he has decided he wants to leave. Now who is going to yell at everyone about the spirit of 90!? :-\\

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/22/16 at 3:10 pm


This is an empty void in my heart where the Early 90s Guy used to be. :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

How am I going to make any jokes now!? Dammit, now I'll have to wait for another neurotic early 90s fan to come along!

Those fights... They were just too good!! I was laughing to myself on many nights walking to my car thinking of all the times I'd fought with him! Those Betsy's Wedding Jokes... :\'(


You can always fight with me. ;)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/22/16 at 3:13 pm


You can always fight with me. ;)


Thanks, Howard! You're always such a kind soul.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/24/16 at 9:40 pm


The whole build up thing still makes no sense as many trends that began in a decade were intended for that decade., not for the next (except for a few things)


You were not alive then, but people were doing everything for the '90s in the '80s.
I take you have not come across books like The California Nutrition Book: A Food Guide for the 90s from Faculty at the University of California and the Editors of American Health by Paul Saltman or Cost Accounting for the 90s: The Challenge of Technological Change from 1987 at your local library. I've never met a soul who was not living for the future in present times. All we do as humans is learn from the past and work for tomorrow. We probably should stop planning so much for the coming periods and live in the now, though. It would be a lot less stressful.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/24/16 at 9:55 pm

You were not alive then, but people were doing everything for the '90s in the '80s.


Is this here like your theme song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoLHrq3z060

I'm willing to be that "heading for the 90s, living for the 80s" is your favorite song lyric of all time.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/24/16 at 9:56 pm


I think that 2000 had a much stronger 90's feel than 1990 did.


1990 was a very cheesy year, whereas the year 2000 was not.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/24/16 at 9:57 pm


Is this here like your theme song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoLHrq3z060

I'm willing to be that "heading for the 90s, living for the 80s" is your favorite song lyric of all time.


You would be correct.  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/24/16 at 9:57 pm



You were not alive then, but people were doing everything for the '90s in the '80s.
I take you have not come across books like The California Nutrition Book: A Food Guide for the 90s from Faculty at the University of California and the Editors of American Health by Paul Saltman or Cost Accounting for the 90s: The Challenge of Technological Change from 1987 at your local library. I've never met a soul who was not living for the future in present times. All we do as humans is learn from the past and work for tomorrow. We probably should stop planning so much for the coming periods and live in the now, though. It would be a lot less stressful.
This is something I can agree with. We should also learn in the present as that does determine the future.

And I have a question for you, would you have loved the early 90s if Bush Sr. was not president?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/24/16 at 10:03 pm


1990 was a very cheesy year, whereas the year 2000 was not.


So you pretty much like the early 2000s more than the early 90s?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/24/16 at 10:05 pm


I love his comic strips! (if they are his) :D

I can't hate on him for loving his Turtles. I'm obsessed with my Pokémon too even at this age  ;D A lot of my friends lined for Amiibos too LOL


The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze was the largest craze of the early '90s. You could not go anywhere without seeing, at least, one Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles item in a drug store or department store window. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle references were being made in almost every TV show of that time, from Saved by the Bell to the cartoon Yo Yogi!. To this day, the first film is the second-highest grossing independent film of all time.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/24/16 at 10:42 pm

Summer 1993 picture.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/photos/Summer93_4.JPG

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/25/16 at 12:45 am

My god... It really is him!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/25/16 at 1:35 pm


And I have a question for you, would you have loved the early 90s if Bush Sr. was not president?


I'm not sure. I think that would depend on the circumstances.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/25/16 at 1:35 pm


My god... It really is him!


To the max.  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/25/16 at 1:37 pm


Summer 1993 picture.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/photos/Summer93_4.JPG


The styles were still something out of a catalog from 1990, only more toned down.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/25/16 at 2:49 pm


Summer 1993 picture.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/photos/Summer93_4.JPG


If that's a 1992 Braves NL champion shirt, then I guess it could be summer 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/25/16 at 3:33 pm


Summer 1993 picture.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/photos/Summer93_4.JPG


Are you in this picture?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/25/16 at 8:49 pm


So you pretty much like the early 2000s more than the early 90s?


No, but 1990 was still one of the cheesiest years in all of history.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/25/16 at 9:56 pm


Hahahaha you're making me laugh now. I'm pretty sure that Law and Order was more popular in the 90's than it was during the 00's. What's next, are you going to say that Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are 00's games just because they spent more time in the 00's than the 90's yet they peaked during the 90's?


Crash Bandicoot was yet another Clinton era knock-off of a pop culture phenomenon that came before it. In this case, that pop culture icon would have to be Sonic the Hedgehog.

The Clinton years were full of so many titles like Super Battletoads (knock-off of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) and Kasumi Ninja (Mortal Kombat clone) that I can't think of many ingenious games from that time period. On the bright side, those games and TV shows like  Jim Henson's Dinosaurs are what best defines the Clinton years, to me. You saw less and less of that stuff after 2001, of course, but it lives on in our minds to this very day. ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/25/16 at 10:05 pm


Hahahaha you're making me laugh now. I'm pretty sure that Law and Order was more popular in the 90's than it was during the 00's. What's next, are you going to say that Sonic the Hedgehog and Crash Bandicoot are 00's games just because they spent more time in the 00's than the 90's yet they peaked during the 90's?


Actually Law and Order WAS more popular in the '00s than it was in the '90s. If you look at ratings/amount of viewers watching per season you'd see that as we go into the '00s there were more people watching Law and Order in the '00s than there was in the '90s. Which means that the show was more popular in the '00s at least for the first half of the '00s anyways. The Between 1999/2000-2004 the amount was viewers were higher than it was from 1990-1998. Also in terms of rank in the show was in a better rank in the '00s than it was in the '90s. Between 1999/2000-2004 the was ranked 13, 11, 7 , 10, and 14. From 1990-1998 it was ranked 20 and higher. And as you know the lower the rank the better.

As for Sonic and Crash Bandicoot well it depends. Crash Bandicoot is more '90s I suppose in terms of success, but Sonic is still around and is still popular to the point where it even got its own spin off series (Sonic Boom and it was successful enough to get a season 2). So Sonic doesn't really belong to any one decade unless you're talking about the certain eras of Sonic.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/25/16 at 10:06 pm

And we all know what kind of garbage spawned from Sonic...

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/25/16 at 10:09 pm


And we all know what kind of garbage spawned from Sonic...


Oh he had garbage alright, but that garbage was somehow REALLY successful to the point where they were able to make more garbage. Crazy how that works.  :-\\

If I remember correctly games like Sonic 06 sold over 2-3 million copies. And Sonic Unleashed sold over 4 million.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/25/16 at 10:18 pm


Oh he had garbage alright, but that garbage was somehow REALLY successful to the point where they were able to make more garbage. Crazy how that works.  :-\\

If I remember correctly games like Sonic 06 sold over 2-3 million copies. And Sonic Unleashed sold over 4 million.


I think Sonic was at his absolute peak as soon as he started. I remember he got so big that in 1993 he had the Macy's Day Parade float and everything! He still continues to be huge today. Crash, on the other hand, was probably at his biggest around 1996-1997.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/25/16 at 10:26 pm


I think Sonic was at his absolute peak as soon as he started. I remember he got so big that in 1993 he had the Macy's Day Parade float and everything! He still continues to be huge today. Crash, on the other hand, was probably at his biggest around 1996-1997.


For Sonic his peak is classic era I guess which is mainly 1991-1996. This was the era where people thought Sonic/Sega could do no wrong. Sonic was the character that would challenge Nintendo's Mario which is a big thing. His Y2K days (Dreamcast days from 1998-2001/2) was great as Sonic was back on the spotlight with a new console, but people don't think it was as good as his Genesis days. Then he went into a dark age sometime in the mid '00s with games like Shadow the Hedgehog in 2005 and Sonic 06 in 2006. Made a slight comeback in 2010 with Sonic Colors to Generations. Then fell again. Crash Bandicoot's success was between 1996-1998/9. After that he started to slip in popularity a bit until he died.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/25/16 at 10:30 pm


For Sonic his peak is classic era I guess which is mainly 1991-1996. This was the era where people thought Sonic/Sega could do no wrong. Sonic was the character that would challenge Nintendo's Mario which is a big thing. His Y2K days (Dreamcast days from 1998-2001/2) was great as Sonic was back on the spotlight with a new console, but people don't think it was as good as his Genesis days. Then he went into a dark age sometime in the mid '00s with games like Shadow the Hedgehog in 2005 and Sonic 06 in 2006. Made a slight comeback in 2010 with Sonic Colors to Generations. Then fell again. Crash Bandicoot's success was between 1996-1998/9. After that he started to slip in popularity a bit until he died.


Yeah, that's what I thought, too. There's that one era of sonic (the one which I grew up with) and that's seen as his absolute best. Then, there's the early 6th gen era from Sonic Adventure up to Sonic Heroes where he had a small come back. After that, I heard he went down the sh!tter but I don't know much about his games in the mid 00's and I only got this fanart you guys told me about (8-P 8-P 8-P) to go off of. That sounds about right for Crash but wasn't he still semi-popular right up until Twinsanity?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/25/16 at 10:43 pm


Yeah, that's what I thought, too. There's that one era of sonic (the one which I grew up with) and that's seen as his absolute best. Then, there's the early 6th gen era from Sonic Adventure up to Sonic Heroes where he had a small come back. After that, I heard he went down the sh!tter but I don't know much about his games in the mid 00's and I only got this fanart you guys told me about (8-P 8-P 8-P) to go off of. That sounds about right for Crash but wasn't he still semi-popular right up until Twinsanity?
Well yeah after Crash's PS1 days he was still somewhat popular as games like Crash wrath of Cortex was still very successful. The success lasted up to Twinsanity. After that things really went down hill. And as of 2016 we haven't seen anything Crash Bandicoot related in years. As for Sonic I'm hoping his 25th anniversary game is good. Sonic turns 25 this year. So hopefully things turn out ok.  :-\\ Crash bandicoot is dead at this point. And so are Megaman, Banjo Kazooie, Spyro, Jak and Daxter, Conker, Dante, etc. Sonic is pretty much one of the last characters I got left.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/25/16 at 10:46 pm

I actually really enjoyed Banjo Nuts and Bolts. It was a very innovative, experimental game, which is very rare (no pun) to come across nowadays.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 2001 on 02/25/16 at 10:51 pm

Devil May Cry 4 was pretty good too, though couldn't match the revolutionary Devil May Cry 3. I haven't played the latest one, but it is generally accepted that the spirit of the game lives on in Bayonetta, which is probably my favourite 7th gen game (I'm not attracted to her so you can't say I'm a pervert lol). I need to buy a Wii U so I can play the second one, I heard it is better than even DMC3.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/25/16 at 10:54 pm


Well yeah after Crash's PS1 days he was still somewhat popular as games like Crash wrath of Cortex was still very successful. The success lasted up to Twinsanity. After that things really went down hill. And as of 2016 we haven't seen anything Crash Bandicoot related in years. As for Sonic I'm hoping his 25th anniversary game is good. Sonic turns 25 this year. So hopefully things turn out ok.  :-\\ Crash bandicoot is dead at this point. And so are Megaman, Banjo Kazooie, Spyro, Jak and Daxter, Conker, Dante, etc. Sonic is pretty much one of the last characters I got left.


Yeah, that's what I thought. I remember Crash still having a bit of success during those days and after that, I didn't really hear about him. Well, I heard his 15th anniversary was really bad so let's hope this isn't a repeat of that supposed (because I don't really know much about it) disaster. Jesus, how come all those characters are dead?? I remember Mega Man from way back when I was a kid! He was still big until 10/11 years ago wasn't he? And what about the others? When did they fall out of popularity? 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 90s Guy on 02/25/16 at 11:36 pm


Crash Bandicoot was yet another Clinton era knock-off of a pop culture icon that came before it. In this case, that pop culture icon would have to be Sonic the Hedgehog.

The Clinton years were full of so many titles like Super Battletoads (knock-off of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) and Kasumi Ninja (Mortal Kombat clone) that I can't think of many ingenious games from that time period. On the bright side, those games and TV shows like  Jim Henson's Dinosaurs are what best defines the Clinton years, to me. You saw less and less of that stuff after 2001, of course, but it lives on in our minds to this very day. ;D


Jim Henson's Dinosaurs came out in '91 though.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: #Infinity on 02/25/16 at 11:40 pm


Jim Henson's Dinosaurs came out in '91 though.


Which of course means it was meant for '93-'95.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/26/16 at 1:06 am


I actually really enjoyed Banjo Nuts and Bolts. It was a very innovative, experimental game, which is very rare (no pun) to come across nowadays.


Devil May Cry 4 was pretty good too, though couldn't match the revolutionary Devil May Cry 3. I haven't played the latest one, but it is generally accepted that the spirit of the game lives on in Bayonetta, which is probably my favourite 7th gen game (I'm not attracted to her so you can't say I'm a pervert lol). I need to buy a Wii U so I can play the second one, I heard it is better than even DMC3.


What I was getting at was that we haven't seen new games for either of these series. Nuts and Bolts is fine, but I don't recall seeing a new Banjo Kazooie game after Nuts and Bolts was released. In other words we haven't seen a new Banjo Kazooie game in 8 years. As for DMC 4 Capcom is in the same situation as we haven't had a new game in 8 years. I don't count re-releases as new games.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/26/16 at 1:11 am

That baby ruled! ;D

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/44/47/8a4447f5510bc6732a243d8e4ff9550e.jpg

This show felt totally 80s to me, though. Not really representative of the real 90's like Beavis and Butthead is.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 6:15 am


That baby ruled! ;D

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8a/44/47/8a4447f5510bc6732a243d8e4ff9550e.jpg

This show felt totally 80s to me, though. Not really representative of the real 90's like Beavis and Butthead is.


The general public started watching it more in 1992, but I would say it was a mid '90s show. Of course, it the beginning, it had more in common with the other shows that were on at that time, but it was very 90s all along. Like Infinity was saying, it was on TV for every year of the mid '90s. Jim's Henson's Dinosaurs happy meal toys were at McDonald's in February or March of 1993. The comic book was released in '93, also. It was a very mid '90s property.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 6:17 am


Which of course means it was meant for '93-'95.


Exactly.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 6:27 am


I think Sonic was at his absolute peak as soon as he started. I remember he got so big that in 1993 he had the Macy's Day Parade float and everything! He still continues to be huge today. Crash, on the other hand, was probably at his biggest around 1996-1997.


Sonic first started to catch on somewhere in the '91 to '92 school year. More people took notice of Sonic in the '92 to '93 school year. So, the spring of '93 is when I would say Sonic was at his absolute peak, because there was not cartoons or balloon at the 1992 Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

I do not know that much about Crash or Spyro, because I was too old to be playing video games at that point? When was the last time Crash was heard of?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Howard on 02/26/16 at 8:06 am


And we all know what kind of garbage spawned from Sonic...


you mean the video game?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 8:09 am


you mean the video game?


Yes.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/26/16 at 11:01 am


The general public started watching it more in 1992, but I would say it was a mid '90s show. Of course, it the beginning, it had more in common with the other shows that were on at that time, but it was very 90s all along. Like Infinity was saying, it was on TV for every year of the mid '90s. Jim's Henson's Dinosaurs happy meal toys were at McDonald's in February or March of 1993. The comic book was released in '93, also. It was a very mid '90s property.


It did exist more in the mid 90's than early 90s but I consider it something that transcends eras.


Sonic first started to catch on somewhere in the '91 to '92 school year. More people took notice of Sonic in the '92 to '93 school year. So, the spring of '93 is when I would say Sonic was at his absolute peak, because there was not cartoons or balloon at the 1992 Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

I do not know that much about Crash or Spyro, because I was too old to be playing video games at that point? When was the last time Crash was heard of?


Yeah, I agree with that. 1993 is when his float was up at the Macy's Day Parade and when the cartoons came out. I remember those being huge when I was young.

Last time he was heard of was 2004 when Twinsanity came out.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 11:09 am


It did exist more in the mid 90's than early 90s but I consider it something that transcends eras.


Initially, I thought it was better in the early '90s, but a lot of the episodes from 1993 and 1994 still hold up to this very day. The finale was depressing, but brilliant.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/26/16 at 11:11 am


Initially, I thought it was better in the early '90s, but a lot of the episodes from 1993 and 1994 still hold up to this very day. The finale was depressing, but brilliant.


Yeah, I thought the show was great all the way through! It's one of my childhood favorites.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/26/16 at 2:28 pm

1993 is now old to me. It was always the year, in my mind, that would always be 'modern.' But now it's old and outdated.  :.growing pains:.  :\'(  :\'( 

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/26/16 at 2:47 pm


1993 is now old to me. It was always the year, in my mind, that would always be 'modern.' But now it's old and outdated.  :.growing pains:.  :\'(  :\'(


So we aren't living in '93 to infinity?  ;D

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Toon on 02/26/16 at 4:06 pm


1993 is now old to me. It was always the year, in my mind, that would always be 'modern.' But now it's old and outdated.  :.growing pains:.  :\'(  :\'(


Hey that's just how things work. You think a certain year feels current, but before you know it the period you're now in is far removed from the period you thought was modern.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/26/16 at 4:22 pm


1993 is now old to me. It was always the year, in my mind, that would always be 'modern.' But now it's old and outdated.  :.growing pains:.  :\'(  :\'(


How come most of your childhood is modern, since you were about 4-5 in 1993.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/26/16 at 4:29 pm


So we aren't living in '93 to infinity?  ;D


Teehee!

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/26/16 at 4:29 pm


Hey that's just how things work. You think a certain year feels current, but before you know it the period you're now in is far removed from the period you thought was modern.


Yes, 1994 is the same too.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 02/26/16 at 4:43 pm


How come most of your childhood is modern, since you were about 4-5 in 1993.


I always thought that 1993 and 1994 would always be modern, now it's not anymore.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Baltimoreian on 02/26/16 at 4:47 pm


I always thought that 1993 and 1994 would always be modern, now it's not anymore.


But the 90s are pretty much 17-26 years old. They're old to most people now.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/27/16 at 1:14 am

https://41.media.tumblr.com/deec6e3f1dd2ebcabbdf6291adae11bd/tumblr_ncldu9acFI1t1yehoo1_500.jpg

1993 will live on forever.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/27/16 at 12:39 pm


https://41.media.tumblr.com/deec6e3f1dd2ebcabbdf6291adae11bd/tumblr_ncldu9acFI1t1yehoo1_500.jpg

1993 will live on forever.


1993 is getting up their in age, but it's not retro like '90, yet.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: JordanK1982 on 02/27/16 at 1:14 pm


1993 is getting up their in age, but it's not retro like '90, yet.


I agree.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 02/29/16 at 6:03 pm


This is something I can agree with. We should also learn in the present as that does determine the future.


Have you seen this yet:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e0/a2/59/e0a25963d54df4379a208ac4ec3be29e.jpg

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: mxcrashxm on 02/29/16 at 10:15 pm


Have you seen this yet:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e0/a2/59/e0a25963d54df4379a208ac4ec3be29e.jpg
No. Is it predicting the spirit of 1990?

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: 80sfan on 03/01/16 at 8:22 am

Look at how outdated the fashion is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaEH1e_DLm0

Sister Act 2 (1993)

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: TheEarly90sFan on 03/01/16 at 8:32 am


Is it predicting the spirit of 1990?


I think they were trying to predict what the brand new programs of 1990 were going to be like.

Subject: Re: 1993 Cultural Debate

Written By: Philip Eno on 03/20/16 at 2:07 pm

This day in 1993, Shaggy was at No.1 on the UK singles chart with 'Oh Carolina', the Jamaican singer's first of four UK No.1's.

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