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Subject: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: mxcrashxm on 06/18/17 at 11:53 pm

I was going to post this in my topic regarding 90s misconceptions; however, I'm not sure if this has been confirmed because there seems to be a debate about whether it was cheerful or antipathy. I thought no wars, economic prosperity, and crime decline would make the decade more optimistic.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Stillinthe90s on 06/19/17 at 12:15 am


I was going to post this in my topic regarding 90s misconceptions; however, I'm not sure if this has been confirmed because there seems to be a debate about whether it was cheerful or antipathy. I thought no wars, economic prosperity, and crime decline would make the decade more optimistic.


I think politically the 90s were far less cynical than the 21st century has been, though cynicism was definitely around. A lot of pop culture was more raw, but I don't see that as cynical, but rather as more genuine.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/19/17 at 12:29 am

Cynical 90's peaked around 1993-1995. The early 90's still had some crazy colors from the 80's leftover and the late 90's had all those boy bands.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: bchris02 on 06/19/17 at 12:52 am

The '90s were a very diverse decade, but the "cynical" aspect was at first grunge culture and then it became "shock rock" in the mid and later part of the decade.  It was an aspect of '90s culture but didn't necessarily define it.  Looking back in TV and movies from the era, there isn't much cynicalness to be found.  It comes through most in the music.  A lot of pop rock sounded very whiny and depressing back then.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: ZeldaFan20 on 06/19/17 at 8:41 am


Cynical 90's peaked around 1993-1995. The early 90's still had some crazy colors from the 80's leftover and the late 90's had all those boy bands.


And 1996...

I mean the East Coast v. West Coast Rap Wars peaked that year culminating to Tupac Shakur getting murdered. Along with 1996 being the last solid year for Grunge before going downhill with Soundgarden separating in early 97'. Boy Bands & Teen Pop didn't really explode until The Spice Girls, Hanson, and The Backstreet Boys broke out internationally in 1997. You should know this Jordan ;D

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/19/17 at 11:17 am


I was going to post this in my topic regarding 90s misconceptions; however, I'm not sure if this has been confirmed because there seems to be a debate about whether it was cheerful or antipathy. I thought no wars, economic prosperity, and crime decline would make the decade more optimistic.


You're focusing too much on the late '90s and ignoring 1990-1995/6.

No wars = Iraq, Yugoslavia, Rwanda

Economic prosperity = there was a recession in the beginning of the decade and the economy didn't start picking back up until around 1996.

Crime decline = crime rates hit their absolute peak in 1993, so 40% of the decade was already over by then.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: mxcrashxm on 06/19/17 at 12:23 pm


You're focusing too much on the late '90s and ignoring 1990-1995/6.

No wars = Iraq, Yugoslavia, Rwanda

Economic prosperity = there was a recession in the beginning of the decade and the economy didn't start picking back up until around 1996.

Crime decline = crime rates hit their absolute peak in 1993, so 40% of the decade was already over by then.

??? ??? ???

I am discussing the entire era. You're right that there were wars in other countries, but I was talking about no wars from an American perspective.

That's true there was one, but from what I was told by older people there was great economic growth during that decade.

Wait? Wasn't the crime rate higher in the 1980s than the 90s? I took a sociology class,  and my professor who studies and even did experiments on this topic never once mentioned anything about the high crime from the decade. It was only the 1920s and 80s that had high crimes.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/19/17 at 1:51 pm


You're focusing too much on the late '90s and ignoring 1990-1995/6.

No wars = Iraq, Yugoslavia, Rwanda

Economic prosperity = there was a recession in the beginning of the decade and the economy didn't start picking back up until around 1996.

Crime decline = crime rates hit their absolute peak in 1993, so 40% of the decade was already over by then.

The US got involved in the Gulf War in 1990-1991. Rwanda happened in 1994 but because of what happened to US troops in Somalia in 1993....President Bill Clinton decided not to intervene in the genocide that was happening in Rwanda (bad decision looking back at it retrospectively).

The US was economically prosperous from 1995-2000/2001.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/19/17 at 1:53 pm


Wait? Wasn't the crime rate higher in the 1980s than the 90s? I took a sociology class,  and my professor who studies and even did experiments on this topic never once mentioned anything about the high crime from the decade. It was only the 1920s and 80s that had high crimes.

You and your professor are correct.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/19/17 at 5:36 pm


??? ??? ???

I am discussing the entire era. You're right that there were wars in other countries, but I was talking about no wars from an American perspective.

That's true there was one, but from what I was told by older people there was great economic growth during that decade.

Wait? Wasn't the crime rate higher in the 1980s than the 90s? I took a sociology class,  and my professor who studies and even did experiments on this topic never once mentioned anything about the high crime from the decade. It was only the 1920s and 80s that had high crimes.


The US was involved in Iraq/Kuwait and Kosovo.

Those people are talking about the late '90s, particularly the dot-com bubble. 1990-1995 were not so great for the economy, you can see in this unemployment chart.

https://econographics.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/unemployment-rate.jpg

And crime peaked in 1993 and dropped off dramatically after that. Again, you're focusing on the late '90s. If you want to see the "cynical" and "dark" picture of the '90s comes from 1990-1995/6.

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2016/07/Violent-Crime-Rate-Chart1.png

No one will accuse 1997+ of being cynical, trust me. ;D That image comes entirely from 1990-1995.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: mxcrashxm on 06/19/17 at 9:01 pm


The US was involved in Iraq/Kuwait and Kosovo.

Those people are talking about the late '90s, particularly the dot-com bubble. 1990-1995 were not so great for the economy, you can see in this unemployment chart.

https://econographics.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/unemployment-rate.jpg

And crime peaked in 1993 and dropped off dramatically after that. Again, you're focusing on the late '90s. If you want to see the "cynical" and "dark" picture of the '90s comes from 1990-1995/6.

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2016/07/Violent-Crime-Rate-Chart1.png

No one will accuse 1997+ of being cynical, trust me. ;D That image comes entirely from 1990-1995.
Alright, I see your point. Yeah, they were involved in two wars, but they were very short.

1990-1995 may have had high unemployment at that time, but it still was overall lower than the Great Recession.

Crime may have peaked that year, but studies show that crime overall still declined compared to the 1980s which had a high crime rate.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/19/17 at 10:49 pm


And 1996...

I mean the East Coast v. West Coast Rap Wars peaked that year culminating to Tupac Shakur getting murdered. Along with 1996 being the last solid year for Grunge before going downhill with Soundgarden separating in early 97'. Boy Bands & Teen Pop didn't really explode until The Spice Girls, Hanson, and The Backstreet Boys broke out internationally in 1997. You should know this Jordan ;D


1996 is when things started to get poppier and fluffier, especially towards the end of the year, so it's not exactly the peak like 1993-1995 was. :P

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: ZeldaFan20 on 06/19/17 at 11:42 pm


The US was involved in Iraq/Kuwait and Kosovo.

Those people are talking about the late '90s, particularly the dot-com bubble. 1990-1995 were not so great for the economy, you can see in this unemployment chart.

https://econographics.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/unemployment-rate.jpg

And crime peaked in 1993 and dropped off dramatically after that. Again, you're focusing on the late '90s. If you want to see the "cynical" and "dark" picture of the '90s comes from 1990-1995/6.

http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2016/07/Violent-Crime-Rate-Chart1.png

No one will accuse 1997+ of being cynical, trust me. ;D That image comes entirely from 1990-1995.


As I mentioned in the 90's misconception thread, one MAJOR misconception was that the 90's were an overall peaceful decade. Violent Crime, while was steadily going down after 1993, was still much more prevalent in the 90s then 2000 & beyond. On top of that you had many domestic terror attacks (Waco, OKC, Columbine) that shook the nation as well. I guess from a geopolitical standpoint, we were pretty peaceful, but at home it was anything but that.



1996 is when things started to get poppier and fluffier, especially towards the end of the year, so it's not exactly the peak like 1993-1995 was. :P


Don't :P me!!!!! Kidding ;)

Yeah 1996 as a whole year maybe wasn't as cynical as 1995 & before, but it certainly wasn't very poppy like 1997 onwards. It was sort of the bridge between the more raunchy 1990-95' 90's, and optimistic 1997-99' 90's.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/20/17 at 4:19 pm


Don't :P me!!!!! Kidding ;)

Yeah 1996 as a whole year maybe wasn't as cynical as 1995 & before, but it certainly wasn't very poppy like 1997 onwards. It was sort of the bridge between the more raunchy 1990-95' 90's, and optimistic 1997-99' 90's.


:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

And I agree, which is why 1996 isn't the peak of either sides of the 90's. ;)

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: ZeldaFan20 on 06/20/17 at 8:20 pm



:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

And I agree, which is why 1996 isn't the peak of either sides of the 90's. ;)


That's why it was the best year of the 90's 8)!

But seriously though I would like to learn some personal recollection from you Jordan, what was your experience with the cynical feeling of the early-mid 90's?

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Zelek3 on 06/20/17 at 8:34 pm

I've heard the 90s being described as both cynical and optimistic.

I believe these people are combining the two parts of the 90s in their heads. Late 1991-Mid/Late 1996, the rustic grungy cynical masculine part of the 90s where the economy was in a trough. Late 1996/Early 1997-Mid 2001, the futuristic girly cheesy optimistic 90s where the economy was great.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Looney Toon on 06/20/17 at 8:48 pm


??? ??? ???

I am discussing the entire era. You're right that there were wars in other countries, but I was talking about no wars from an American perspective.

That's true there was one, but from what I was told by older people there was great economic growth during that decade.

Wait? Wasn't the crime rate higher in the 1980s than the 90s? I took a sociology class,  and my professor who studies and even did experiments on this topic never once mentioned anything about the high crime from the decade. It was only the 1920s and 80s that had high crimes.


The early 1990s had a high crime rate. The overall peak can be sad to be from the late 1980s to early/mid 1990s based on what I find online.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/20/17 at 9:16 pm


I've heard the 90s being described as both cynical and optimistic.

I believe these people are combining the two parts of the 90s in their heads. Late 1991-Mid/Late 1996, the rustic grungy cynical masculine part of the 90s where the economy was in a trough. Late 1996/Early 1997-Mid 2001, the futuristic girly cheesy optimistic 90s where the economy was great.


It's the late 1996 shift ;D

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/20/17 at 9:22 pm


That's why it was the best year of the 90's 8)!

But seriously though I would like to learn some personal recollection from you Jordan, what was your experience with the cynical feeling of the early-mid 90's?


No way! I actually think it's the one of the most boring years I've ever experienced pop culturally. :P I loved living 1996 but in retrospective it pails in comparison to the great movies and albums released in 1995 and 1997.

For one, my brother was really into grunge and he acted all mopey in doped up all the way. That's one fun experience. ;D


It's the late 1996 shift ;D


Is that when the last vestiges of the 80's died? The 80's lasted until late 1996.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Zelek3 on 06/20/17 at 9:23 pm


It's the late 1996 shift ;D

It's when 2pac got shot and the N64 was released that marked the shift.

But seriously, late 1996 is when the economy started getting really good again, did it not? So that may've contributed to the 90s becoming more optimistic Y2K-futuristic towards the end.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/20/17 at 9:25 pm

I was born closer to 1996 than 2003. Does that make the '90s cynical? ???

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/20/17 at 9:26 pm


It's when 2pac got shot and the N64 was released that marked the shift.

But seriously, late 1996 is when the economy started getting really good again, did it not? So that may've contributed to the 90s becoming more optimistic Y2K-futuristic towards the end.


So Zelek, do you agree that the 80's didn't end until late 1996?

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Zelek3 on 06/20/17 at 9:27 pm

No

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: mxcrashxm on 06/20/17 at 9:28 pm


I've heard the 90s being described as both cynical and optimistic.

I believe these people are combining the two parts of the 90s in their heads. Late 1991-Mid/Late 1996, the rustic grungy cynical masculine part of the 90s where the economy was in a trough. Late 1996/Early 1997-Mid 2001, the futuristic girly cheesy optimistic 90s where the economy was great.
I thought that Grunge was not overblown like some people think it was.


The early 1990s had a high crime rate. The overall peak can be sad to be from the late 1980s to early/mid 1990s based on what I find online.
Yeah, they did; however, sources say that the 90s had a lower crime rate compared to the 80s. Even my sociology teacher explained it to my class.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/20/17 at 9:33 pm


It's when 2pac got shot and the N64 was released that marked the shift.

But seriously, late 1996 is when the economy started getting really good again, did it not? So that may've contributed to the 90s becoming more optimistic Y2K-futuristic towards the end.


It started getting better around 1995/1996, I think. Also Simpson's started getting bad around late 1996 (or 1997) too, and there was Dragon Ball Z.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/20/17 at 9:33 pm


No


I think it's about time us 80's kids, such as myself, claim the the 80's influence extents to late 1996.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Tyrannosaurus Rex on 06/20/17 at 9:39 pm


It started getting better around 1995/1996, I think. Also Simpson's started getting bad around late 1996 (or 1997) too, and there was Dragon Ball Z.


Simpsons I think started getting bad a little later, maybe around Season 10.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Zelek3 on 06/20/17 at 9:41 pm


It started getting better around 1995/1996, I think. Also Simpson's started getting bad around late 1996 (or 1997) too, and there was Dragon Ball Z.

Simpsons started getting bad in late 1997 with the episode "The Principal and the Pauper".

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/20/17 at 10:31 pm

I was a child so my view is skewed. To me, 1994 and after is pretty positive.  :P

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/21/17 at 6:00 pm


Simpsons started getting bad in late 1997 with the episode "The Principal and the Pauper".


Yup, it was the beginning of the end.  :P

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: HazelBlue99 on 06/21/17 at 10:21 pm


I was born closer to 1996 than 2003. Does that make the '90s cynical? ???


Are you trying to call yourself cynical because of when you were born? :P

I was actually born closer to 1996 than I was to 2002. It's sort of strange to think about really.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/21/17 at 10:24 pm


Are you trying to call yourself cynical because of when you were born? :P

I was actually born closer to 1996 than I was to 2002. It's sort of strange to think about really.

No, I just made that statement as a joke ;D. I don't know what they were talking about so I said something random ;D ;D ;D.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/21/17 at 11:19 pm


Are you trying to call yourself cynical because of when you were born? :P

I was actually born closer to 1996 than I was to 2002. It's sort of strange to think about really.


1993 was the peak of cynicism. But I like to think of it as the world getting gradually happier thanks to my continued existence.  :-X

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Lizardmatum on 06/23/17 at 12:13 pm

The TV show Daria captured the 90's really well in my opinion even though it was a 1997 to 2002 show. That show was really cynical and sarcastic. Also Woody in the first toy story movie seems to be a lot snider and sarcastic than people remember. I think it was part of the culture back then

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/23/17 at 1:50 pm


1993 was the peak of cynicism. But I like to think of it as the world getting gradually happier thanks to my continued existence.  :-X


Oh, come on, that's a silly idea. ::)

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: ZeldaFan20 on 06/23/17 at 4:28 pm


The TV show Daria captured the 90's really well in my opinion even though it was a 1997 to 2002 show. That show was really cynical and sarcastic. Also Woody in the first toy story movie seems to be a lot snider and sarcastic than people remember. I think it was part of the culture back then


Daria was good at representing the cynical spirit, but I think a better representation was Beavis& Butthead. Heck it aired from 1993 to 1997, the Core of the 90's and the cynical era it coincided with.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Lizardmatum on 06/23/17 at 4:48 pm


Daria was good at representing the cynical spirit, but I think a better representation was Beavis& Butthead. Heck it aired from 1993 to 1997, the Core of the 90's and the cynical era it coincided with.


Ah that's true! forgot about them.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/23/17 at 4:58 pm


Oh, come on, that's a silly idea. ::)


Then what's your explanation for everything becoming a lot more orderly and stable post-1993 in an almost miraculous pace?  :-X I think my theory makes more sense than the lead paint and abortion theory.  :-X :-X :-X

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Sir Rothchild on 06/23/17 at 6:50 pm


Ah that's true! forgot about them.


Even if Beavis and Butthead brought in the influence for Daria, Daria was rather better since it could relate towards other angst teenagers during the 90s.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/23/17 at 6:56 pm

1996 was so cynical that I had a headache!  :(  :(  :(

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/24/17 at 12:06 am


Then what's your explanation for everything becoming a lot more orderly and stable post-1993 in an almost miraculous pace?  :-X I think my theory makes more sense than the lead paint and abortion theory.  :-X :-X :-X


Probably because Snoop Dogg released his legendary debut album that year.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/24/17 at 12:11 am


1996 was so cynical that I had a headache!  :(  :(  :(


Cynical, not cider!


Probably because Snoop Dogg released his legendary debut album that year.


But '93 was the peak of cynicism. By using scientific evidence, we can conclude that Snoop Dogg's album made things worse.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/24/17 at 12:14 am


Cynical, not cider!

But '93 was the peak of cynicism. By using scientific evidence, we can conclude that Snoop Dogg's album made things worse.


Madonna went through a Sex phase in 1993. It's all your fault!  :-X  :-X  :(

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/24/17 at 12:15 am


Madonna went through a Sex phase in 1993. It's all your fault!  :-X  :-X  :(


It was the year of fertility.  :-[

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/24/17 at 12:16 am


It was the year of fertility.  :-[


Oh, I see. I'm a bit sleepy right now!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/24/17 at 12:18 am

WEre tHe '90S alL ThAt cYnIcAl?

http://images.complex.com/complex/images/c_limit,w_680/fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/bujewhyvyyg08gjksyqh/spongebob

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/24/17 at 12:20 am


Cynical, not cider!

But '93 was the peak of cynicism. By using scientific evidence, we can conclude that Snoop Dogg's album made things worse.


No way. It has funky ass rhythms! He said so himself! It's continued existence of party jams has made this world more peaceful and bumpin. Making "dat azz bounce" if you get my meaning. 8)

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 2001 on 06/24/17 at 12:25 am


No way. It has funky ass rhythms! He said so himself! It's continued existence of party jams has made this world more peaceful and bumpin. Making "dat azz bounce" if you get my meaning. 8)


I think it might have contributed to the fertility of this year, but the evidence still suggests that it made it more cynical too.

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: 80sfan on 06/24/17 at 12:26 am


WEre tHe '90S alL ThAt cYnIcAl?

http://images.complex.com/complex/images/c_limit,w_680/fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/bujewhyvyyg08gjksyqh/spongebob



;D  ;D  ;D

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: JordanK1982 on 06/24/17 at 12:28 am


I think it might have contributed to the fertility of this year, but the evidence still suggests that it made it more cynical too.


No way! Snoop Dogg is about good times! 8)

Subject: Re: Were the '90s THAT cynical?

Written By: Todd Pettingzoo on 07/29/17 at 8:55 am

The US economy started getting good again in 1993, but 1996/1997 was when people really felt it.

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