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Subject: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 11:42 am

I believe that there are ghosts surrounding us.  I also believe in other life form of some kind. As far as Bigfoot....I know my two uncles claimed that they saw a creature of that nature sitting in the woods near their house...so, who knows? ???

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 11:51 am

I believe in ghosts.
When I was younger I had what I thought was a dream.
My grandmother (who had already passed away) was in my dream but
she was talking to me about current stuff and when she hugged me
in the dream it felt REAL.

There are also stories from around the city I live in about
ghosts and one was actually on Unsolved Mysteries.
I'll have to look it up and bring the info to you!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 11:53 am


I believe in ghosts.
When I was younger I had what I thought was a dream.
My grandmother (who had already passed away) was in my dream but
she was talking to me about current stuff and when she hugged me
in the dream it felt REAL.

There are also stories from around the city I live in about
ghosts and one was actually on Unsolved Mysteries.
I'll have to look it up and bring the info to you!


that would be great, Tam. This kind of stuff seriously fascinates me to no end! ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 06/08/06 at 12:03 pm

"I do believe in spooks. I do, I do, I do believe in spooks."  :D


Yes, I do believe believe in ghosts. I have "seen" one per say but I have felt presences before.


As for Bigfoot or alians (besides the ones with "green cards"  :D)-basically seeing is believe and as of yet, I haven't seen any-but I don't dismiss the possibility that they COULD exist.




Cat

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 12:18 pm

I'm not sure if you want this here but this is a story that has always fascinated me:

Lizzie Borden
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-BordenHouse.html

On the hot morning of August 4, 1892, Lizzie Borden murdered her stepmother with an ax, in the Borden's family house at No. 92 Second Street, Fall River, Massachusetts. Abby Borden's body was found between the bed and bureau, in the guest room. Ninety minutes later, she killed her father, Andrew Borden, in the same way. He was found laying with his head on the sofa arm, next to the door, in the downstairs sitting room.
While there is little doubt that Lizzie committed the crime, she was acquitted at trial due to a lack of evidence. Although ostracized by the community, Lizzie lived in the house until she died on June 1, 1927.

After her death, the house remained a private residence for several decades before being converted into a bed and breakfast. Guests are allowed to view the murder scene and can sleep in Lizzie and her sister Emma's bedrooms, Abby & Andrew's Bedrooms or the guest Room where Abby was killed. Martha McGinn, owner and operator, has lived in the house since her teens. She calls the house "active" instead of haunted, and believes that the spirits of the murder victims may inhabit the house.

Cold spots are felt in many of the rooms. People who work in the house say they have heard many strange sounds, including voices, a woman crying and unexplained footsteps. Some have seen indentations - like that of a body lying down - appear and disappear on the beds. Objects are mysteriously moved out of place, lights go on and off, and doors and cabinets have opened on their own.

Guests have reported seeing an "older Victorian woman" dusting and making the beds in the guest room as Abby was doing at the time of her death. Still others have reported being awakened in the night to see this same woman pulling the covers of the bed over them as though she is tucking them in. A couple from Connecticut took a photograph in the sitting room that didn't turn out properly. The photo was almost entirely black except for the apparition of an elderly man who looked very much like Andrew Borden.


http://www.unsolved.com/0115-Borden.jpg

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Gis on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm

I definatly believe in ghosts, no choice now I've seen one ! I think there is alot more in this world than we know.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm

... Nnuuuupe!


I know, I'm no fun.  :-\\

I'm the kinda person who only believes in things with logical explanations... Like why my computer is making a beat out of the clicks that come out of it when it's busy... :o

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: whistledog on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm

I do believe in ghosts.  Years ago, I thought what I saw was one, and to this day, I am still convinced that what I saw was something paranormal

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Bobby on 06/08/06 at 12:27 pm

No, sorry folks, I don't believe either. Too many fake pictures and misinterpretations of events for my liking.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: deadrockstar on 06/08/06 at 12:30 pm

I'm not sure what to believe about it.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Mr Tumnus on 06/08/06 at 12:35 pm


I'm not sure if you want this here but this is a story that has always fascinated me:

Lizzie Borden
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-BordenHouse.html

After her death, the house remained a private residence for several decades before being converted into a bed and breakfast. Guests are allowed to view the murder scene and can sleep in Lizzie and her sister Emma's bedrooms, Abby & Andrew's Bedrooms or the guest Room where Abby was killed. Martha McGinn, owner and operator, has lived in the house since her teens. She calls the house "active" instead of haunted, and believes that the spirits of the murder victims may inhabit the house.
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-Borden.jpg


A very spooky story, thanks for posting a clip. God why would people want to sleep in the bedroom of the actual murder scene?

I do believe there is something of a supernatural force in the world, but haven't as yet seen anything, but have felt/sensed presences near me.

Erin thanks for this thread,  I love subjects like this, must follow on from nights as a kid reading ghost books under the bed-covers..mwahahahhhaaaa    :o :o

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 06/08/06 at 1:05 pm

Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 1:09 pm


Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.



seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/08/06 at 1:19 pm



seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???


:/

Some can be lies, and some can just be psychological, like.. you think you saw it because it's what you want to believe...

Then again, they could be real... I guess the only way to find out is to die, any takers?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 2:20 pm



seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???

A lot of researches like to believe that there are explanations for everything.
Pictures with orbs in them are simply "dusty lenses"
Lights are from power lines or pockets of electricity,
same as cold spots - supposed cold pockets of air are everwhere.
(Yeah, explain that to me when I am standing in 120F heat in Texas... lead me to the dang cold pockets will ya!!!)


Some are hoaxes but not nearly as many as researchers would like for us to believe!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: gemini on 06/08/06 at 2:52 pm

Yes, I totally believe in ghosts.  I don't really believe in Bigfoot, I think it's just an urban legend of sorts. I believe there are some kind of spirits or presence around, especially after an experience we had here a few nights after we moved in. We had just gotten our dog, and she's a black dog, so of course my daughter said, "a black dog is the sign of the devil", and I just went on, like yea right or something. So later we were all sitting in the living room and the phone was on the coffee table, and it didn't ring, but we just heard 3 beeps like it makes when you push the phone buttons, and when I looked at the I.D. on the handset it had "666" on it.  :o That scared the holy sh*t out of us!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 7:13 pm


A lot of researches like to believe that there are explanations for everything.
Pictures with orbs in them are simply "dusty lenses"
Lights are from power lines or pockets of electricity,
same as cold spots - supposed cold pockets of air are everwhere.
(Yeah, explain that to me when I am standing in 120F heat in Texas... lead me to the dang cold pockets will ya!!!)


Some are hoaxes but not nearly as many as researchers would like for us to believe!




seriously!! I mean, how can they explain when someone's appliances or toys all start by themselves...or when they see spirits running up and down the stairs? :o

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/08/06 at 8:05 pm

For anyone answering "I'm not sure", or "maybe", may I humbly suggest:

http://www.csicop.org

And failing that, grab a copy of Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World and Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, in that order.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: deadrockstar on 06/09/06 at 11:32 am



seriously!! I mean, how can they explain when someone's appliances or toys all start by themselves...or when they see spirits running up and down the stairs? :o


I can't say about the second one, but appliances doing that can be attributed to faulty wiring.  Same thing with lights going on and off by themselves.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/09/06 at 11:37 am

[quote author=

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: KKay on 06/10/06 at 9:22 am

no, i don't beleve in any of it...but i am afraid of things that i can't explain.  these things dont' happen often.  if i expereince something eerie, my mind goes automatically to the logical explanation and my fear is quelled. 
i really do enjoy the subject though. I watch all the shows about ufos and ghosts and all; it's fun but i don't beleve it at all.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/10/06 at 1:19 pm


:/

Some can be lies, and some can just be psychological, like.. you think you saw it because it's what you want to believe...

Then again, they could be real... I guess the only way to find out is to die, any takers?


ironic,r eally, sicne none of us have a choice. Do you really think that when we die we will be given all the answers? This is what ost people believe, but I am not so sure. How do we know what the afterlife holds? Nobody has ever spent enough time there to tell us, and the few who claim to have been there all give different accounts. The fact is, we know absolutely nothing about life or death.

Oh, and yes, I do believe in the paranormal, UFOs, alien abductions, cryptozoology (bigfoot, chupacabra, mothman, etc.), and the like.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/11/06 at 12:00 am


ironic,r eally, sicne none of us have a choice. Do you really think that when we die we will be given all the answers? This is what ost people believe, but I am not so sure. How do we know what the afterlife holds? Nobody has ever spent enough time there to tell us, and the few who claim to have been there all give different accounts. The fact is, we know absolutely nothing about life or death.

Oh, and yes, I do believe in the paranormal, UFOs, alien abductions, cryptozoology (bigfoot, chupacabra, mothman, etc.), and the like.




Well, if we die and just... die without anything happening, then we won't be alive to know the answers!

No way finding out, I guess.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Red Ant on 06/11/06 at 1:52 am

I'd say no, but I also can't explain everything either.

Several years ago, I went to see the Cohoke Lights in Va. We saw it alright, and it scared me quite a bit. We went back the next day in the light and the train tracks on which it appears are partially disassembled, there were no guy wires over the tracks (the light appeared stationary at first, then moved toward us), and there are no light towers nearby or on a correct angle to produce the effect we saw.

If it is a practical joke, someone needs to go to Hollywood rather than scare off locals at 2am. BTW, the light appeared within 5 minutes of our arrival.

I've heard stories that if you stand on the tracks the light will pass right through you, but we moved about 50 yards away and never saw it pass.

Of course, it could be the cops with a searchlight playing tricks on people rather than arresting them since it is a Class 3 misdemeanor to loiter within 200 yards of the crossing.

Here's an article:

http://www.astronomycafe.net/weird/lights/cohoke.htm

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: lorac61469 on 06/12/06 at 9:04 pm

My reply was I believe in all of it, however what I really mean is I believe that these things are possible. 

I have never seen a ghost but I believe in them. 

I think it's possible that Bigfoot is real, I have no clue as to what it is.  New species are being found around the world as well as species that have been thought to be extinct.  Here's a story about a shrimp that was thought to have become extinct about...Oh, 60 million years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12875772/

If this shrimp was found alive why can't there be other species that we don't know about?


I believe that there could be life on other planets, maybe not in our Solar System but somewhere.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Apricot on 06/14/06 at 10:54 am

We all operate off of energy, what people argue to be the "soul"... since Energy can not be created or destroyed, it's logical that it goes somewhere instead of just sitting in the ground with the body. Now, that doesn't always mean it's gonna turn into spectral energy and become a ghost, but in some cases it may form into that image. I believe I have seen the ghost of my great-grandmother, very close, in her house about a year after her death.

I think Aliens logically also have to exist, this is a giant universe, there's no way we could possibly be the only thread of life. I don't believe in the conventional sense of probes and death rays and spaceships, but there are at the very least bacteria on other planets that will eventually evolve or something.

Bigfoot, I'm not so sure on. I think by now, if it were for real, the government would have found the damn thing and studied it.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/14/06 at 6:20 pm

You know... The whole paranormal debate is plagued by people who, instead of looking at things and coming to the logical conclusions (or, more importantly, the lack thereof), attempt to either explain away these happenings, or explain how they feel on the matter.

How can any well-informed individual not believe in UFOs, or alien abductions, or ghosts? There have been hundreds of thousands, and in some cases millions of sightings of all of them... Do you really think that 1 million people are all crazy, lying, or both?

We can create whatever fantasys we want to explain ghosts and UFOs... But in the end, we really don't have a damn idea what is going on.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/14/06 at 10:37 pm


How can any well-informed individual not believe in UFOs, or alien abductions, or ghosts? There have been hundreds of thousands, and in some cases millions of sightings of all of them... Do you really think that 1 million people are all crazy, lying, or both?


Not at  all.  But what's wrong with "factually incorrect"?

UFOs:  Unidentified flying objects certainly exist.  If you don't know what it is, it's a UFO.

But that doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.  Let's dispense with the fakes, the clouds, and the weather balloons; those are the easy cases.  What about the hard cases?    The F-117 stealth fighter flew for 5-10 years before it was revealed to the public.  More than one of the aircraft crashed.  You can bet that a lot of people camping out in certain deserts would have sworn up and down they saw a small black triangular UFO doing things that "airplanes" couldn't possibly do, I mean, fer cryin' out loud, the thing they saw didn't even have wings like an airplane oughta have.

They weren't crazy.  They weren't lying.  They were, however, factually incorrect.

You want an interesting world?  Try the scientific method.  There are worlds the size of the earth, that weigh a good fraction of the mass of the sun, and are paved with  diamond.  There are also atomic nuclei that weigh as much as stars, and are ten miles across.  We call them "neutron stars". Then things get weird.  There's a place near the center of our galaxy that weighs as much as a million suns, but takes up about as much space as our solar system.  (or takes up no space at all, depending on which definition of 'space' you want to use).  Stars orbit this place like fireflies, gravitationally slingshotting each other everywhere.  Some get thrown out of the galaxy.  Some get sucked in and are torn apart.  There's one star that will be traveling at a measurable fraction of the speed of light at its closest approach.  Every few decades, any observer near the star (who wasn't already fried to a crisp by the radiation in the neighborhood) would get to see the sky around the black hole visibly warp and shift over a period of days and weeks. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and  "Data" means more than "the plural of 'anecdote'".  Statements like the ones I've just made would have been pure speculation for most of the past century.  The last claim I made, about the period of the orbit of one of the stars orbiting the galactic central black hole, was impossible to make until less than 5 years ago, when we could say that we knew (as opposed to merely suspected), that the only thing small enough and gravitationally powerful enough to account for everything we'd observed was, indeed, a black hole. 

I was going to say "sorry about killing your buzz" -- but I'm not trying to kill anyone's buzz. The point of science is to admit that we don't know everything:  but it's a pretty neat tool for adding to our pool of knowledge, and the universe we've been able to understand so far is a really fascinating place. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/17/06 at 9:46 am


Not at  all.  But what's wrong with "factually incorrect"?

UFOs:  Unidentified flying objects certainly exist.  If you don't know what it is, it's a UFO.

But that doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft.  Let's dispense with the fakes, the clouds, and the weather balloons; those are the easy cases.  What about the hard cases?    The F-117 stealth fighter flew for 5-10 years before it was revealed to the public.  More than one of the aircraft crashed.  You can bet that a lot of people camping out in certain deserts would have sworn up and down they saw a small black triangular UFO doing things that "airplanes" couldn't possibly do, I mean, fer cryin' out loud, the thing they saw didn't even have wings like an airplane oughta have.

They weren't crazy.  They weren't lying.  They were, however, factually incorrect.

You want an interesting world?  Try the scientific method.  There are worlds the size of the earth, that weigh a good fraction of the mass of the sun, and are paved with  diamond.  There are also atomic nuclei that weigh as much as stars, and are ten miles across.  We call them "neutron stars". Then things get weird.  There's a place near the center of our galaxy that weighs as much as a million suns, but takes up about as much space as our solar system.  (or takes up no space at all, depending on which definition of 'space' you want to use).  Stars orbit this place like fireflies, gravitationally slingshotting each other everywhere.  Some get thrown out of the galaxy.  Some get sucked in and are torn apart.  There's one star that will be traveling at a measurable fraction of the speed of light at its closest approach.  Every few decades, any observer near the star (who wasn't already fried to a crisp by the radiation in the neighborhood) would get to see the sky around the black hole visibly warp and shift over a period of days and weeks. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and  "Data" means more than "the plural of 'anecdote'".  Statements like the ones I've just made would have been pure speculation for most of the past century.  The last claim I made, about the period of the orbit of one of the stars orbiting the galactic central black hole, was impossible to make until less than 5 years ago, when we could say that we knew (as opposed to merely suspected), that the only thing small enough and gravitationally powerful enough to account for everything we'd observed was, indeed, a black hole. 

I was going to say "sorry about killing your buzz" -- but I'm not trying to kill anyone's buzz. The point of science is to admit that we don't know everything:  but it's a pretty neat tool for adding to our pool of knowledge, and the universe we've been able to understand so far is a really fascinating place. 


Well, there is absolutely nothing wrong with many or even the majority of UFO cases being "factually incorrect". I will be the first (second, okay) to acknowledge that. However, let's look at actual UFO reports, shall we? In most cases, a shink metallic object is seen hovering in the sky, and then shooting off at tremendous speeds. On radar, objects have been seen to travel at tens of thousands of miles an hour, and then reverse direction instantaneously. Does this sound like a weather balloon? A top-secret military aircraft? Because the simple fact of the matter is that no known material can withstand that kind of sudden reversal of momentum. No known energy source can fit within the usual 33-foot UFO shape and create enough energy to move the thing at tens of thousands of miles per hour, let alone reverse it on a dime. Gravity, as far as we know, cannot be circumvented. We can blame these acounts, witnessed both by observers and recorded by radar towers all over the world, as top-secret military craft, but the facts of actual sightings do not confirm this theory.

And what of alien abductions? In nearly all cases, those "abducted" have exactly the same story to tell... The blue beam of light that paralyses and transports them, small 4-foot creatures (that always look the same) by them, a bright white room with glowing walls, a table, strange experiments, and a small object being inserted into their nose, and never removed. Some have tried to blame the shocking similarity of these reports on "archetypical images" triggered during "sleep paralysis". However, there have been no proven casesof sleep apralysis. And Jung's archetypical images have never been confirmed, either.

Unfortunately, the scientific method cannot be applied to the paranormal in the same way that it can be applied to, say, chemistry. The paranormal is not based upon cause-effect situations in which somethign can be repeated over and over again, can be observed, and can be made to work in the lab. In a way, the paranormal acts more like quantum physics, in which things do not have defnite properties... Instead they have probibilities. An electron may be over here, or it may be over there... We can't tell... We can only see the probibility that it will be in either place. For all intents and purposes, it is in both places at once. It's merely more likely to be in one place than the other.

Okay, I am ranting. And that is generally not a good thing. But my point, I guess, is that those who seek to disprove the paranromal by any and all emans possible need to grow up and look at things as they are, now how they want or think they should be...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/18/06 at 4:43 pm

  On radar, objects have been seen to travel at tens of thousands of miles an hour, and then reverse direction instantaneously. Does this sound like a weather balloon? A top-secret military aircraft?

Sounds exactly like what I'd expect top-secret military aircraft to do. 

Suppose you're a radar operator.  You fire a bunch of radio waves into the air.  You look at what comes back.  You use "what comes back" to determine direction and speed.

Suppose you're a designer of a top-secret military aircraft.  You have antennae that can detect his radar (unclassified - basically everything from the Vietnam war to today).  You know what the radar operator's going to do with whatever data he gets back, and your aircraft is designed to reflect as little of it as possible (unclassified - basically everything from the SR-71 to the F-117, B-2, and F-22).  You therefore send him exactly what you want him to hear (I don't have a need to know, but it sure wouldn't surprise me given even the technology of the 80s), and if you want him to think that you pulled a U-turn at mach 3, you figure out what signal to send back to him, and that's exactly what he'll see. 

However, there have been no proven casesof sleep apralysis. And Jung's archetypical images have never been confirmed, either.

Heh, of course not!  Everyone who experienced it (I have, too) and didn't immediately jump to the "Aliens!" conclusion probably figured "Meh, sleep paralysis", or "whoa, freaky dream", and went back to sleep, or woke up.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-02/abducted.html

But why do you demand "proof" if you're not interested in the scientific method?

Unfortunately, the scientific method cannot be applied to the paranormal in the same way that it can be applied to, say, chemistry. The paranormal is not based upon cause-effect situations in which somethign can be repeated over and over again, can be observed, and can be made to work in the lab. In a way, the paranormal acts more like quantum physics, in which things do not have defnite properties... Instead they have probibilities. An electron may be over here, or it may be over there... We can't tell... We can only see the probibility that it will be in either place. For all intents and purposes, it is in both places at once. It's merely more likely to be in one place than the other.

This is the only thing I'm going to seriously object to:  Why aren't you willing to apply the scientific method to your own beliefs?  A lot of the things quantum physics predicts are not merely counterintutive, they're downright weird

But the reason we believe in quantum physics, however, isn't despite the scientific method, it's because of the scientific method.  You really can set up an experiment - a real, nuts-and-bolts-and-lasers-and-diffraction-gratings-and-photocells experiment - and observe the predicted effects of quantum theory in a lab. 

(And any quantum physicist worth his salt would tell you that he has no way of determining which of many competing  interpretations of quantum theory is indeed the "right" one.  Most of us have adopted "shaddap and calculate!" as the way of producing new toys, but we're all painfully aware that there are some big unanswered - and possibly unanswerable - questions there.)

Okay, I am ranting. And that is generally not a good thing. But my point, I guess, is that those who seek to disprove the paranromal by any and all emans possible need to grow up and look at things as they are, now how they want or think they should be...


BTW, you're not ranting.  You're making a pretty reasoned argument.  Fundamentally, the only thing on which we disagree is whether or not the scientific method is applicable everywhere and everytime.  I argue that it is.  You argue that it isn't.  To me, that seems like a cop-out.  Why should the burden of proof be lower for some claims than it is for others?  If the things exist, one ought to be able to prove it by the same means by which we prove the roundness of the earth, meteors (heh, science had that one wrong for 200-300 years, always ignoring those silly peasants talking about rocks falling from the sky and what-not!), and the time dilation effect predicted by general relativity.

As for "how people want or think" things should be, I'd personally love to live in a universe in which aliens were visiting us:  It would mean either that someone had figured out how to get around the speed-of-light barrier, or that someone had figured out how to live for millions of years.  A lot of physicsts (and biologists) would be delighted to be proven dead wrong on either count.

For the record, I'd bet very good money that life exists elsewhere in the universe.  I'd bet good money that it exists elsewhere in the galaxy.  As we've learned about other planetary systems, we've learned that the conditions required for life on Earth are pretty common.  Intelligent life, capable of radio communications or better, wouldn't surprise me a whit.  And I'd love to be proven dead wrong on intelligent life having dropped by to say "hello" every few thousand years.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/19/06 at 3:09 pm


Sounds exactly like what I'd expect top-secret military aircraft to do. 


Oh yes? Just because something is top-secret" and "military" DOES NOT mean that it can defy the laws of physics.

Suppose you're a radar operator.  You fire a bunch of radio waves into the air.  You look at what comes back.  You use "what comes back" to determine direction and speed.

Correct. Radar uses the Doppler effect to determine the range, direction, speed, and size of an object. The Doppler effect is present when radio waves strike a moving object and are sheared slightly as they are reflected.

Suppose you're a designer of a top-secret military aircraft.  You have antennae that can detect his radar (unclassified - basically everything from the Vietnam war to today).  You know what the radar operator's going to do with whatever data he gets back, and your aircraft is designed to reflect as little of it as possible (unclassified - basically everything from the SR-71 to the F-117, B-2, and F-22).  You therefore send him exactly what you want him to hear (I don't have a need to know, but it sure wouldn't surprise me given even the technology of the 80s), and if you want him to think that you pulled a U-turn at mach 3, you figure out what signal to send back to him, and that's exactly what he'll see. 

That sounds good in theory... But you need to consider what would be necessary to collect every single radio wave that strikes an object, process it, and then send out a new version of the wave as you want it to appear back to the correct location on the ground. radar's operation is not based on WHAT is sent, but on HOW it is sent. If an object has moved 2 miles in one second, how is it going to "trick" a radar station into believing that it has covered 30 miles in that second? It's not possible. Your oversimplification of radar technology disappoints me greatly.

Heh, of course not!  Everyone who experienced it (I have, too) and didn't immediately jump to the "Aliens!" conclusion probably figured "Meh, sleep paralysis", or "whoa, freaky dream", and went back to sleep, or woke up. 

Well, when people, under hypnosis, give accounts of alien abductions, we can only come to one of two conclusions: 1) The event that they describe to the hypnotist has really happened, or 2) The event that they describe has NOT happened, but they HONESTLY BELIEVE it to have happened. It is impossible to knowingly lie under hypnosis, because lying requires contious thought, something those under hypnosis have very little of. Hypnotic regression allows a patient to re-experience something that they believe to have experienced. Critics claim that hypnotists subliminally, and unknowingly, influence the responses given by patients. But if this is that case, why do the patients of Bud Hopkins, who believes in aliens being "evil", not agree with Bud in their accounts by telling of "evil aliens"? And why do those hypnotists who believe in "good" aliens not have a higher percentage of patients who give accounts of aliens as benevolent? Hmmm? The facts are, both cases are split exactly 50-50. How would you explain this, unless the hypnotist has very little effect on the results of the regression?

Also, what of the many, many cases in which patients eventually remember the event entirely WITHOUT hypnosis?

http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-02/abducted.html

But why do you demand "proof" if you're not interested in the scientific method?


I find it interesting to note that the book does not address the subject of people that have had dreams of aliens inserting something in their nose... Then have awoken with a headache and/or nosebleed... Is this merely a mind-over-mater thing? The mind believes itself to be seeing something, so the body produces blood and a migraine? If you look at the people who have gone to a doctor, and have found literal holes in their cartilage. Did they drill those holes themselves when they were dreaming? I don't know about you, but I usually keep my Dremel far from my bed at night.

This is the only thing I'm going to seriously object to:  Why aren't you willing to apply the scientific method to your own beliefs?  A lot of the things quantum physics predicts are not merely counterintutive, they're downright weird

Why, because you do not feel qualified to seriously object to anything else I have said? And why not? You seem to be dead-set against my beliefs... Why not try to convince me that you are right?

Does something being "wierd" make it incorrect? Have you ever heard of something called "gravity"? We have no way of explaining it... We aren't even CLOSE to understanding why it works. And yet everyone believes in it. Why do YOU believe in it, since it is clearly more "wierd" than much of quantum physics?

Do you even know what quantum physics IS? (apparently you DO, from the below... nvm)

But the reason we believe in quantum physics, however, isn't despite the scientific method, it's because of the scientific method.  You really can set up an experiment - a real, nuts-and-bolts-and-lasers-and-diffraction-gratings-and-photocells experiment - and observe the predicted effects of quantum theory in a lab.

(And any quantum physicist worth his salt would tell you that he has no way of determining which of many competing  interpretations of quantum theory is indeed the "right" one.  Most of us have adopted "shaddap and calculate!" as the way of producing new toys, but we're all painfully aware that there are some big unanswered - and possibly unanswerable - questions there.)   


Well, I thoroughly agree with this part. Quantum physics is all in practice... the theory has yet to be uncovered. Much like the days before Newton, we know that some things work a certain way, and we can do experiments to demonstrate them, but a modern-day Newton has yet to come along and give us the underlying math to explain it to us... And allow us to use it to our advantage... (Or destruction.. Just look at the atomic bomb...)

BTW, you're not ranting.  You're making a pretty reasoned argument.  Fundamentally, the only thing on which we disagree is whether or not the scientific method is applicable everywhere and everytime.  I argue that it is.  You argue that it isn't.  To me, that seems like a cop-out.  Why should the burden of proof be lower for some claims than it is for others?  If the things exist, one ought to be able to prove it by the same means by which we prove the roundness of the earth, meteors (heh, science had that one wrong for 200-300 years, always ignoring those silly peasants talking about rocks falling from the sky and what-not!), and the time dilation effect predicted by general relativity.

Did I say that the scientific method cannot be used in some cases? I think that that those words were put in my mouth, so to speak, by you. The question is not "does JohnDenver believe that is can or can't be used in all cases", the question is "can it be used in all cases". The problem with those who use the scientific method is that they tend to think that anything that cannot be proven, tested, and verified cannot be happening. Sleep paralysis as an alternative to true paranormal experiences is no more proveable than the claim that alien abductions are happening. But yet some will believe this because they do not want to believe that anything in the universe could be more in control of their lives than they are themselves. They are afraid to face the unknown.

As for "how people want or think" things should be, I'd personally love to live in a universe in which aliens were visiting us:  It would mean either that someone had figured out how to get around the speed-of-light barrier, or that someone had figured out how to live for millions of years.  A lot of physicsts (and biologists) would be delighted to be proven dead wrong on either count. 

Well, we are limited mortals, who stupidly assume that our physical world is all that there is. Who is to say that UFOs are not inter-dimensional in nature, which is why we never see them in space... Only on Earth?

And, judging by the reported nature of NEARLY ALL supposed alien abductions, we can assume that if ANY of these accounts are true, the aliens DO NOT WANT to communicate to them. With such advanced technology (or metaphysics, or whatever it is), they would be ALLOWING us to see them on the occasions that we do. People will go out of their way to explain away the unknown. Ignorance is bliss, and they have foolishly chosen happiness over enlightenment.

For the record, I'd bet very good money that life exists elsewhere in the universe.  I'd bet good money that it exists elsewhere in the galaxy.  As we've learned about other planetary systems, we've learned that the conditions required for life on Earth are pretty common.  Intelligent life, capable of radio communications or better, wouldn't surprise me a whit.  And I'd love to be proven dead wrong on intelligent life having dropped by to say "hello" every few thousand years.


Well, I agree. However, I am of the opinion that UFOs, alien abductions, ghosts, cryptozoology, "ball lightning" (a horrific misnomer),.. the paranormal in general is all inter-related in some way. But I'm not going to attempt to explain it until I have some evidence as to what is going on. As of now, I have none, and do not believe anyone who claims to have it (unless I see it... But how can I trust my senses?). However, just as bad are those who blindly accept ANY "debunking" of these phenomenon...

The truth is, the scientific method fails miserably at describing or testing the paranormal. The scientific method would tell us that any paranormal happenings were not possible, and were not happening, since we can't conjure them up in the lab. Aliens and ghosts and the mothman all defy physics, walking through walls and defying gravity. That simply can't happen in our world, according to science. And yet it is happening. At least, millions of witnesses around the world, many of whom have no way of communicating, and all tell the same stories of the same phenomena would have us believe so. Are you going to disregard every alien abduction, every UFO sighting, radar record, medical anomaly, mothman sighting, and ball lightning sighting because it is "impossible" and defies science?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Sister Morphine on 06/19/06 at 6:57 pm

Nope.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/19/06 at 11:15 pm

Did I say that the scientific method cannot be used in some cases? I think that that those words were put in my mouth, so to speak, by you. The question is not "does JohnDenver believe that is can or can't be used in all cases", the question is "can it be used in all cases". The problem with those who use the scientific method is that they tend to think that anything that cannot be proven, tested, and verified cannot be happening.

The scientific method rests on the assumption that "that which cannot be proven, tested, and verified, cannot be assumed to be happening".  The words "assumed to be" are key.  I read them into your statement (quite possibly mistakenly) -- but it appears that you've read them out of mine (in which case, equally mistakenly).  If you can accept the statement I made above, we're basically on the same side. 

If you can buy that statement with the added assumption "and is the best method we have of determining between statements that are true, false, and unknown", we are on the same side:  You happen to accept some evidence which I reject.  And I'm unconvinced by your explanations of that evidence because they don't make predictions that  anybody can test. 

But those are differences of opinion, not differences in worldview.  Differences of opinion can be settled rationally, even if it takes a few decades.  (Much like the Victorian scientists who didn't believe in farmers' reports of meteorites landing in their fields, because "rocks don't fall from the sky", but also like Einstein, who never accepted quantum theory, even in the face of the evidence against him.)

Well, we are limited mortals, who stupidly assume that our physical world is all that there is. Who is to say that UFOs are not inter-dimensional in nature, which is why we never see them in space... Only on Earth?

Ah, but (to a scientist), that way lies madness -- rejecting physics entirely (as opposed to merely positing that one type of physics is more in accordance with observation than another type of physics) is a "worldview" kind of difference.  On that, we can only "agree to disagree", for who is to say with any less authority that we don't exist only at the whim of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who has touched scientist and nonscientist alike with His Noodly Appendage? 

The burden of proof applies to the one making the claim -- but lots of people have claimed to have experienced His Noodly Appendage, and who are we to judge? :)

(And the people said "RAmen!")

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Trimac20 on 06/20/06 at 4:04 am

I'm not a total skeptic, but am usually quite skeptical. It depends on what area of the 'paranormal' you're talking about. Like I think there's a good chance many mysterious beasts like Nessie or the Yeti exist, but I take most spiritualist activity as a hoax.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 06/20/06 at 2:25 pm

If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime.  If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time.  If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so.  But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/20/06 at 3:41 pm

Well, then, Foo Bar, I suppose that we are on the same side of this argument.

Shocking...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/20/06 at 7:31 pm


If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime.  If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time.  If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so.  But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.


So is that a yes, or a no?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 06/20/06 at 9:20 pm


So is that a yes, or a no?


I've experienced clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, and E.S.P. many times --- they are commonplace aspects of being alive as a human being --- and I consider them to be perfectly natural and normal attributes of life, not paranormal or supernatural.  "Paranormal" and "Supernatural" are merely labels for things that some people haven't yet accepted as being normal and natural attributes of life.

If such abilities arise spontaneously and naturally during the course of a human being's spiritual evolution, they can be accepted as gifts and are not dangerous if used only in harmony with selfless divine love.  If such abilities arise as a result of forceful attempts to manifest them for purposes of increasing one's power to manipulate other people, they can cause problems.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/20/06 at 11:08 pm


Well, then, Foo Bar, I suppose that we are on the same side of this argument.

Shocking...

Not really shocking.  Just a case of having to peel away the unstated assumptions.  It's hard to get past these assumptions. 

A story from my own life:  Firewalking.

I was at a work-related conference and we were talking about silly teambuilding exercises various managers had subjected their employees too.  One person had done firewalking.  We were all in technical professions, just not all in the software industry.  The dialog went something like this:

Firewalker:  ...and we all walked across the fire!
FooBar:  Whoa, cool!  So anyone can do it?  How does it work?
Firewalker:  Well, we all had to spend a few hours raising our consciousness...
FooBar:  Yeah yeah, but how did it work?
FireWalker:  Well, there are these energies, you see...
OtherDude:  Naw, not the guy's schtick, he means How.  As in How. Does. It. Work? 
FooBar:  Yeah, what he said!  I always wanted to know how that worked.
FireWalker:  Huh?  I told you how.  What do you mean "how"?

It took a few rounds for us to explain precisely to each other what we meant by the question "Hmm, you're not special, so how does it work?" versus "It works!  I'm not special, but the guy who led us was totally cool!". 

The hardest part of the conversation was for the mystic and scientist alike to understand what constituted an acceptable answer to that question.  It was an amiable discussion, and (much like our exchange) it was revealing to both sides.  We both ended up having to go back and restate things a lot of times, because we each had a lot of assumptions that we just took for granted.  (e.g. the universal applicability of the scientific method, versus the "look, I was there, I walked across the coals!!" declarations.  It took at least three rounds before we'd agreed that none of were disputint the fact that she'd walked across the coals, we were just curious as to  how her feet weren't burnt!)

We ended up googling for it, and came up with an explanation (on the CSICOP site, no less!) that made sense (conventional physics) without implying fraud anywhere. 

Consider that the first guy who tried firewalking was probably a shaman.  Under the influence of herbs, or just really intensive meditation, he discovered something pretty cool, even if completely by accident.  The shaman made the completely reasonable (albeit incorrect) hypothesis that the meditative preparation (or the herbs :) were essential to successfully perform the firewalk.  He also made the completely rational (by any standard!) decision that he wasn't gonna try to test the hypothesis by walking across coals unprepared!

Our imaginary shaman really believed that there was something magical going on, and he was pretty smart (by any reasonable standard) for not testing his hypothesis.  Over time, generations of people learned that (with preparation, because "hey, man, it'd be crazy to try it without preparation!  These are your feet we're talking about!") the tribal shaman had the magical power to firewalk, and that some shamans could even teach it (as long as the preparation was done properly and the right energies raised!) to other members of the tribe.

The funny bit -- and why I'm all for scientific investigation of claims of the paranormal -- is that firewalking has probably  been around for millennia, but it's only been in the last couple of decades that a scientist had the testicular fortitude to go from "Y'know, if firewalking is so bulletproof that middle managers can do it at corporate retreats, there's gotta be an explanation for it that doesn't involve anything beyond plain old physics!", to the required step:  actually performing the experiment.  "...and I'm gonna prove there's no metaphysical explanation for firewalking  by taking a close look at how the coals are prepared, and then I'm gonna walk across 'em with a bunch of other folks, except I'm gonna skip the schtick, and then I'm gonna look at my feet, and as many other feet as I can, and I'll bet my own feet that both the "energy-raised" and "skeptic" end up walking away tonight!", and walked across the coals to see what would happen.

To the mystics:  They laughed at Columbus.  They laughed at Galileo.  But they also laughed at Bozo the clown.

To the skeptics:  Only when the turtle sticks his neck out, does he move forward.

My only regret is that my current employer isn't dumb enough to send us on silly teambuilding exercises.  Most of 'em are bunk, but I'd love to skip out on the metaphysical teambuilding part and just walk across fire and annoy the guy  running the seminar, who, unlike the shamen of old, knows he's running a scam :-) 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Donnie Darko on 06/21/06 at 2:56 pm

I think it makes sense to believe in the paranormal. I'm very interested in aliens.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 06/21/06 at 3:06 pm


I think it makes sense to believe in the paranormal. I'm very interested in aliens.


Have you read "chariots of the gods"?  Although much of the info in the book has been disputed it really makes sense, more sense than some of the stories in the bible.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/21/06 at 3:19 pm

Well, this is a difference of worldview. You assume that nothing can exist that cannot be observed. However, we must ask ourselves what we know about our reality. What is relaity? What the hell is it? Certainly, most will define it as what we can detect and measure in one way or another... Ensuring us of it's "existence". But after thoroughly researching the sheer numbers that have *impossibly* (to science) had paranormal experiences, I am forced to conclude, logically, that there is more to "real"-ity than what we are able to detect. Take, for example, a case in which two people (friends) were in a car, traveling on a quiet desert road, when they both loked at the closk, and realized that three hours had passed in what had seemd like 5 minutes. They did not speak for the rest of the trip, so shocked were they. One was dropped off later, and the other went home. They both began to have strange dreams, before which no phone calls were made between them. They finally talked, and decided to see a psychologist (or whatever) who did something strange: He thought that hypnotic regression might shed more light on what hapened during that "missing" time. Enter Bud Hopkins. Bud saw a unique opportunity to *prove* that something was going on, and he had them in for sepatare sessions. Both gave an account nearly exactly the same, as following:

A metallic object lands nearby. They stop the car, and walk over to investigate. They both black out, and both awake (they see eachother) in a white room with glowing walls and small 4-foot humanoid figures hovering over them (not literally hovering, but you get the idea). They had tear-shaped black eyes (very large) no ears, no hair, smooth grey skin, pencil-thin arms, oversized hands and head, a slit for a mouth (that did not move at all when they spoke), and tiny nostrils. They looked something like thie:
http://galactic.to/azb9152a/grey_1.jpg
Both gave perfectly matching descriptions of what was done to both themselves and the other by the greys... Both remember everything that the greys told them (warning of nuclear holucaust, as is usual in these cases... Stupid grays!)
And both described the same event, under hypnosis (meaning they believed every bit of what they described to be happening)...

And then they remembered the aliens telling them "You will remember nothing of this", and then they suddenly found themselves traveling at about 60MPH down the road. No gas was used, but they were a bit down the roadfrom where they remembered. Hmmm... Was this sleep paralysis, too? Let me tell you, it would have to be a clever fraud indeed if they managed to screw up their own memories of the event enough to fool a trained hypnotist...

Anyway, you get my point. Cases such as these certainly seem to be happening... And the only conclusion that I can, logically, come to is that some alien abduction cases - if not most alien abduction cases - are true. Why the simple thought that this could concievably be happening exactly as it has been described is so hard for some to accept is beyond my ability to understand.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 06/21/06 at 10:47 pm

  What is relaity? What the hell is it?

In the words of Philip K. Dick, reality is that which refuses to go away even when we stop believing in it.

(UFO story snipped)  hypnotic regression (more snip)  Both gave an account nearly exactly the same (more snip) warning of nuclear holucaust, as is usual in these cases... Stupid grays!

...and the only thing they had in common was the guy doing the regression, namely Mr. Hopkins.

1) Assume the evolution of an intelligent race of beings.  Assume they solves the faster-than-light (or suspended-animation for millennia) problem.  Assume they build enough (billions!) spacecraft such that they've visited  every corner of the galaxy, even our little world.  Assume they visit people.  Assume they have sufficient understanding of human neurology that they can erase most traces of their visits.  Assume that, with no knowledge of alien technology, some guy who does "regressions" is smart enough to beat the aliens' hacking of human memory and recover the memories anyway.  Assume that with all of these abilities and insights into human neurophysiology, the aliens decided to warn our humans of nuclear holocaust, as opposed to, say, global warming, fundamentalist islam following the end of the cold war, etc.  (As you say - stupid greys :-)

2) On the grounds that people can be convinced of remembering things that never happened (google "false memory syndrome"), and on the grounds that humans have been known to pull fast ones before, assume that the guy who did the regression is a human being pulling a fast one on a couple of yokels who lost track of time while driving a long distance, possibly at the limits of human exhaustion, and were very open  to suggestions pertaining to the sort of fears that characterized the era, specifically, nuclear holocaust, and they looked exactly like what "aliens" are supposed to look like in the popular culture of the time...

I believe that explanation #2 requires fewer, and smaller, assumptions.  It's not safe to drive while microsleeping, but it's been done before.  Everything else can be accounted for by...

Let me tell you, it would have to be a clever fraud indeed if they managed to screw up their own memories of the event enough to fool a trained hypnotist...

...the second assumption, namely that our two subjects are more trustworthy than their hypnotist, who probably  "knows" more about aliens (or at least, his audience's preconceptions of aliens) than he cares to admit :-)

Could be worse.  Coulda happened 400 years ago, and the priest coulda had 'em dunked in water until the demons they'd had commerce with were exorcized.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/22/06 at 4:14 pm

Well, this could possibly be happening. However, this fact stands out to me: Bud Hopkins believe's in malevolent aliens. Many other alien-abduction hypnotists believe in benevolent aliens on a mission to save humanity. However, both have about a 50% belief rate among their patients for each category. Now, if they are influencing the abductee's responses,.. Wouldn't they tend to end up with patients that agree with their view of aliens?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 06/24/06 at 11:05 am


Well, this could possibly be happening. However, this fact stands out to me: Bud Hopkins believe's in malevolent aliens. Many other alien-abduction hypnotists believe in benevolent aliens on a mission to save humanity. However, both have about a 50% belief rate among their patients for each category. Now, if they are influencing the abductee's responses,.. Wouldn't they tend to end up with patients that agree with their view of aliens?



Yes, they should test those who have heard both views?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/24/06 at 1:44 pm



Yes, they should test those who have heard both views?


Well, it's not so much a matter of what they believe, it's more what they think they saw when they were abducted. In about 50% of abduction cases, the abductees come away from it believing that the aliens were evil. The other 50% got the feeling that the aliens were here for our own god, perhaps to prevent us from destroying ourselves in a petty war.

It's interesting to note that in some cases, the aliens are human-looking, and smile all the time. In other cases, the aliens are the "Grays". In some rarer cases, the aliens appear to be gray-like, but have features of insects or reptiles, such as insect wings or reptilian scales. Perhaps those who see grays are more likely to see them as evil... And perhaps two types of aliens are visiting us. Maybe thousandsof years ago, religious people saw them as "angels" and "demons"?
But the ultimate point is, the hypnoptist has very little, if any, influence on the things remembered by the subject.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 06/24/06 at 4:19 pm

PLEASE NOTE: Everything from THIS LINE DOWN is stuff I copied from elsewhere --- personally, I don't necessarily buy any of it myself, I just think it makes entertaining reading....  Johnny D

From http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/ufoclass.html

OBSERVED UFO OCCUPANT CLASSIFICATIONS

By: Richard D. Butler

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."> Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 26

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the Sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose... There were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the Sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them...."> Genesis, Chapter 6, Verses 1,2,4


Non Earth-Born Humans
This GROUP consists of three peoples from three distinct colony zones, namely Sirius, Pleiades and Orion. Genetically, they are nearly identical to Earth-born humans with the following exceptions. Abductees refer to these beings as the "talls". Males average up to approximately seven feet in height; females, six and a half feet. They are extremely fine featured, pale in complexion. Eyes are almond shaped, slightly slanted with a natural black liner, much like the renderings of ancient Egyptian royalty. There are three hair colors apparently related to colony origin: blonde (Pleiades), red (Orion), and black (Sirius). The insignia of these combined human races is a triangular arrangement of three spheres. This symbol has deep significance, and is found throughout Earth history. History records these beings as goddesses, gods, devas, etc. A subgroup of GROUP A females is in command of most Terran projects.

Earth-Born Humans
These are Homo Sapiens whose origin is the planet Earth. They can be divided into two separate classes.
(Ancient) - These humans were the companions and house servants of a GROUP A military mining and occupation force. When this force left the Earth sometime between 1,000 BC and 3,500 BC, it was decided to remove all humans that had been in close proximity with them. It was felt that leaving them would only further disrupt normal human development. Class A humans are on an equal level with GROUP A and cooperate fully in all Earth projects.

(Modern) - These humans are working on the same cooperative level as Class A. They were taken from the Earth in modern times. During some abduction projects, twins (either identical or fraternal) are induced in a female subject. During the first trimester, one of the fetuses is removed. It is then grown to maturity by GROUP A. Abductees will meet their twins during some abductions. Very limited contact has been made by these humans.


Genetically Modified Earth-Born Humans
These humans are comprised of two classes and should not be confused with GROUP D Greys.
(Workers) - This class is the smallest in physical stature. They are described as approximately three and a half feet in height, large head and eyes, pale white in complexion. These workers were created by GROUP A through genetic modification of Earth human fetuses. Their function is to perform menial tasks requiring limited reasoning abilities. In mental capacity, they are equivalent to a five year-old child. They are incapable of violence and, in some cases, are kept as companions by GROUP A individuals.

(Technicians) - These humans are basically the same as Class W. they are slightly larger, at approximately four and a half feet in height. Their complexion is tan or yellowish. Their reasoning and deductive abilities are higher. This allows them to perform more complex operations. They are often seen operating ship controls and in transport activities. Both Classes W and T are telepathically camouflaged to appear as Greys to abductees. This is done to conceal the true nature of GROUP C. It is felt that perception of GROUP A maintaining a human slave population would hinder future contact efforts. This point will undoubtedly be a source of much heated debate in the near future.


Greys
Of the six groups discussed in this paper, the Greys appear to represent the only non-human contingent. The following data should be considered tentative at best. Height is approximately five and a half feet. The head is large; eyes large, black and very slanted. Skin color is dark grey and non-porous. All data so far indicates that they may be a cetacean-based life form. On Earth, this comprises the species of whales and dolphins. Descriptions of Greys' skin color and texture closely match that of dolphins. The stare and stun effects approximate that performed by dolphins on potential enemies, such as sharks and barracuda.
Human and dolphin fetuses are nearly identical, up to a certain development stage. Some say they share a common genetic ancestor. If so, then this makes the hybridization of humans and dolphins theoretically feasible.

(Note: For a more detailed look at this group, see The Dolphins of Heaven.)


Human/Grey Hybrids
One of the main ET projects, now in the completion stage, is the hybrid program. The goal of this project is to produce a being combining the best physical and mental qualities of both races. The following description is of a hybrid female, approximately fifteen years old. Height is five feet, three inches; skin color is pale white/grey. the head is slightly larger and rounder than normal. Hair is dark, high above the forehead, and worn in a very long ponytail. The face is very fine-featured, and attractive. Like all the beings discussed in this paper, her main method of communication is telepathic. This has allowed a deeper understanding of her intellectual and emotional make-up. They consider themselves human, not Grey, in almost all respects. They care about the Greys, as any child would a parent, but find them agonizingly boring. The desire for human contact is greater than all others. Their capacity for emotion is as great, if not greater than, humans. Any physical attribute more human than Grey is a great source of pride. Their intellectual capacity is well above human standards. It is very likely they will exceed the capabilities of both races.

SasquatchThese have been seen both near, and on-board, UFOs. Little is known about them. Some have speculated that they are the original pre-human species from which Homo Sapiens were derived.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 06/24/06 at 4:20 pm

PLEASE NOTE: Everything from THIS LINE DOWN is stuff I copied from elsewhere --- personally, I don't necessarily buy any of it myself, I just think it makes entertaining reading....  Johnny D

From http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/dolphins.html

The following is an article as yet unpublished. Enjoy it with an open mind.

THE DOLPHINS OF HEAVEN

By: Richard D. Butler

The classification and identification of observed alien beings is one of the greatest challenges facing ufology today. If we accept that indeed there are intelligently guided extraterrestrial craft operating in our atmosphere, then the next logical questi on must be who and what, are they? In a previously published article, (Classifications of Observed UFO Occupants) I discussed two primary species of UFO occupants. These are A) Homo Sapiens, and B) Cetaceans.

The first group is comprised of seven human subgroups, both of terrestrial and non-terrestrial origins. The latter group of cetaceans, known as the "Greys," represent the non-human element and are the topic of this article. The information from which these conclusions have been drawn was obtained from the following sources:


personal investigation of over two dozen abduction cases
in-depth interviews with over fifty alleged abductees
general interviews with over seventy-five alleged abductees
an intensive study of ancient mythological and historical data
study of modern day cetacean research data.

The main objective was to compare the observations of modern day abductees against those recorded in ancient history. If the phenomena were genuine and long-term, then correlations between the two should be found, as indeed they were. The following is a brief summary of those beings who were identified.
The main or lead group of alien beings, is advanced humans of non-terrestrial origin. They are in most respects nearly identical to Earth-born Homo Sapiens. They are from three distinct colony zones, Sirius, Orion, Pleiades. They came to the Earth sometime before 50,000 BC for mining and colonization purposes. Note: an excellent source of related information are the Earth Chronicles, by Zechariah Sitchin. These advanced humans modified an existing, Earth-born, pre-human by merging their genes with it. The resultant hybrid is what we now call modern man -- us. The remaining subgroups of humans observed on-board UFOs are all Earth-born humans who were taken from the Earth, both in ancient and modern times. References to each of these types can be found in our historical literature, described in various ways. In very ancient times they were called Gods. Some of the later names are angels, devas, fairies, elves, demons, incubus and succubus, etc. It is interesting to note that as mankind developed, these beings have continued to be involved in one way or another, in human affairs.

In modern times we no longer refer to these beings in spiritual terms. We call them ETs or aliens, and have become aware of both their physical nature, and their high state of technological advancement. Whether our various social and religious organizations can survive the growing pains of finally leaving our state of intellectual pre-puberty, remains to be seen.

Now let us examine the only non-human UFO contingent, the Greys. Based on eyewitness testimony, the following physical profile can be composed. Height is 5 feet 5 inches; overall shape is humanoid. Skin coloration is dark gray and non-porous. The head is proportionally large and triangular-shaped in the vertical plane. The back skull area is large and rounded. The eyes are large and slanted upwards toward the back. Greys are often mistaken for two human subgroups, known as workers and technicians. These are smaller and as stated, are of human descent.

Based on all the evidence thus far seen, we might hypothesize as follows. The Greys descended from cetaceans. What are cetaceans? On Earth they comprise the species we call whales and dolphins. We have already seen that human species can be found elsewhere. If the same genetic code for humans exists on other worlds, then it is not unreasonable to propose that other genetic codes previously thought to be only Earth-indigenous, exist out there as well. This raises a very interesting question -- Why is the same basic genetic code found on all these different worlds? The answer may well be that an unknown intelligence deliberately seeded the various planets with the same basic genetic blueprints.

The Earth then is merely one in a series of duplicate genetic environments. Who were these seeders and what was their purpose? Interesting questions, indeed. Perhaps in a future article it can be discussed in greater detail. Now let us get back to our central issue, the Greys. What are the reasons for supposing that they are a dolphin-based life form? The answer to this is found in the similarities of both their physical and behavioral aspects.

First let us examine the physical characteristics. The skin of a Grey is very similar to that of dolphins, both in texture and in some cases, coloration. If you have an abductee look at a dark gray porpoise, the response is in the affirmative. On Earth, the dolphins evolved legs and arms to function on land but later returned to the oceans. X-rays clearly show the residual appendages in modern day dolphins. It is possible that the Greys evolved just as Earth dolphins but did not return to the oceans, and continued to develop as a land-based mammal. Next is the skull shape. The Greys have a large rounded rear area in the upper front and back of their skulls. An examination of the dolphin skull shows the same large, rounded front and rear areas. The eyes of Greys are described as large and black with what appears to be a protective shielding covering the eye. Many Earth aquatic animals have developed protective outer-eye shields for underwater use. It is possible that this is a left-over attribute from the Greys' ocean origins. Another factor is the dark coloration of this eye shield. It suggests an eye structure suited for a reduced light environment. In the oceans, this is natural for a creature living underwater where the sunlight does not penetrate. On Earth, the dolphins developed the sonar ability as their primary navigational ability and do not rely on sight while underwater.

Now we will look at the behavioral similarities. Earths' dolphins use sonar to navigate and stun both prey and enemies. The stun affect is of particular interest to us. Dolphins can emit a very powerful and focused ultrasonic burst from the front portion of their skulls. They use this to stun prey and to stun enemies such as sharks and barracuda. I once saw a film of a group of dolphins using this ability on a very large barracuda. The barracuda was swimming towards a group of baby dolphins. Four large adult dolphins turned so that there heads were directly in line with the barracuda and emitted a sustained ultrasonic burst. The effect on the barracuda was astounding. It froze, completely paralyzed in the water. Even the gills had stopped moving. The dolpins stared at it for about thirty seconds, during which time the barracuda remained totally immobilized. As soon as they turned their heads away, the ultrasonic beam was no longer focused on the barracuda and it fled at a very high speed. Obviously this beam was tightly focused and required the dolphins' heads to be pointed directly at the target. The strength of the beam could be changed also. When hunting it could be directed at small fish and amplified to lethal levels, causing instant death. Some believe that this is also used when dolphins kill sharks, by ramming them. Autopsies show the sharks' internal organs have been literally shattered.

The beam can also be controlled to produce a stun effect as in the case of the barracuda. The result was physical paralysis and disorientation. I believe that this is the very same technique used by the Greys in abductions. The similarities are overwhelming. Every abductee says that when they are abducted they are paralyzed and become mentally disoriented. This is usually in the presence of a Grey. The most striking thing they recall is what is called the "Stare." This is when the Grey looks directly at an abductee. The large dark eyes capture the abductee's attention immediately. They then report being unable to move, and a feeling of great mental disorientation. On some rare occasions, abductees report a lessening of these effects when the Grey looked a way from them. This indicates that the intensity of the effect was directly proportional to the direction or focus of the front portion of the Greys' head.

I believe that Greys possess the same sonar abilities as all dolphins and that these abilities are used to stun an abductee during the abduction. The "Stare" as abductees call it, comes from the positioning of the Greys' frontal skull area, the projection area, to achieve maximum beam concentration on the abductee. When the Grey looks away, the beam would naturally become less focused and the effect would diminish, just as it does.

The description of a Greys' head is large, triangular and rounded in front and back. This suggests a large and rounded rear and frontal brain lobe structure. This is identical to the physical structure of cetaceans. It is the main difference between cetacean and human brains. This large rounding is thought to be an adaptation of the cetacean brain to handle the enormous data flow of their echo-location and sound-based communications faculties. It should also be noted that on the rare occasions that abductees hear verbal sounds from Greys, it is described as high-pitched, sometimes chattering or staccato clicks or beeps. These are all similar to the air vocalizations of dolphins.

The Greys are reportedly engaged in human/grey hybrid experiments. This is reportedly to combine the genetic material of both species into a hybrid species. Is this possible? Japan and several other countries are working even now on inter-species hybridizations. If I am correct that the Greys are of dolphin descent, then the possibility of successful hybridization becomes much greater. Some believe that on Earth, man shared a common genetic ancestor with the dolphin. Up to a certain point in development, human and dolphin fetuses are nearly identical. In the not too distant future it will be possible to produce a hybrid human/dolphin species. I contend that the Greys have already beaten us to it.

Finally I would like to point out that dolphins have been associated with the "Gods" a.k.a. the aliens, from earliest recorded times. Certain mythologies hold that some of the Gods came from a world of water. It is now thought by some that these beings genetically altered the existing prehumans on Earth. It is certain that the Greys would have had a hand in this. One of the greatest of ancient worship sites is the temple of Delphi. This was originally the temple of the sea Goddess. The word Delphos means both dolphin and womb. I believe it is time we stopped calling them Greys and used the name our ancestors called them. They knew of the Gods who came from the water world in the heavens long ago. They called them Delphim.

I hope that you have found this enlightening and thought provoking. For those out there who consider humans the only intelligent species on the planet, let me illustrate the power of the cetacean brain. The Bible contains just over a million and a half bits of information. The song sung by humpbacked whales contains over fifteen million bits of information. Each year it changes just slightly and every whale on the planet knows what those changes are. Now ask yourself this. Could you remember the Bible word for word? Could you remember fifteen of them? Think about it. If our Bible contains our basic history, social and religious philosophies, what does something fifteen times larger contain?

It is my deepest hope that this article will allow you to open new perceptions of the events now taking place on this planet. To see both the Greys and yourself, in a new way. I think in time we will come to find that what's down here, is exactly what's out there. That there are humans and dolphins cooperating out there, I am certain. Perhaps we should stop and ponder our roles as the caretakers of this planet. Our own cetacean population has been hunted by man to the very edge of extinction. It is someth ing that we all must take shame in. Recently, efforts have been made by the civilized nations to preserve the great whales and dolphins. Can we live peacefully on this planet with another intelligent species? I truly hope so. I would hate for another more advanced species to treat us as we've treated the whales.

Many hope for contact with these beings. If we cannot get along with an indigenous intelligent species, how can we expect to get along with one of extraterrestrial origins. Peoples are judged by their actions. If we demonstrate our goodwill toward our fellow inhabitants of this world, perhaps those not of this world will be sent a message - that we are civilized after all.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: JohnDenver on 06/27/06 at 7:23 pm

I don't have time at the moment to read all of this carefully, but a few thigns stand out to me at first glance:


I hope that you have found this enlightening and thought provoking. For those out there who consider humans the only intelligent species on the planet, let me illustrate the power of the cetacean brain. The Bible contains just over a million and a half bits of information. The song sung by humpbacked whales contains over fifteen million bits of information. Each year it changes just slightly and every whale on the planet knows what those changes are. Now ask yourself this. Could you remember the Bible word for word? Could you remember fifteen of them? Think about it. If our Bible contains our basic history, social and religious philosophies, what does something fifteen times larger contain?


Well, you assume that the ability to remember soemthing translated directly into an IQ value. It doesn't. Computers can easily transfer several billion bits of information over a beam of light... Yet they are only doing what they are programmed to do. Instinct causes the animal world to do many amazing thigns... But the guiding force behind all of them is just that - instinct. Also, how much of the "information" contained in the whale's calls is actual data? How much of it is error-correction? remember, these sounds have to travel thousands of miles... If it is as important as you suggest it may be, you wouldn't want to lose a single bit of information, would you? Chaos theory dictates that over time, a single error would cause the entire call to change to, well, pure chaos very quickly were there errors. I propose that if there is any meaningful information in the calls of the whales, most of it is padded and safeguarded within a huge amount of repetition and error-correction, so that none of the actual info is lost.
Have you analysed the whale's calls? How much of it follows patterns? Computers are remarkably good at finding patterns. Good enough to pick out an mp3 of Motzart music out of a million mp3s containing only noise. Until you can give me the results of a comptuer analysis, I will remain a slight skeptic (although your point of view is interesting).

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: 80sGirl on 07/05/06 at 7:57 am

I am a big time believer in anything that has to do with the paranormal. Like UFOs, Ghosts, monsters, and other stuff like that.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: twistedwarp on 07/08/06 at 1:31 pm

You really got to experience to believe in the paranormal and I experienced not only me but my sisters and  my brother. beacuase we used to live in a  building and where we lived was in a  basement. (you probably dont know if you never been in a  city ) And where we lived was just what some call it hunted. also beacuase my sisters used to play with a ouija board. Things happend. like closing the doors,  voices in the hall way. I also remember  twice that the blender and the radio turned on on front of me and my moms face. rediculous.  So yeah you really got to experience it to believe.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 07/08/06 at 6:33 pm


I don't have time at the moment to read all of this carefully, but a few thigns stand out to me at first glance:

Well, you assume that the ability to remember soemthing translated directly into an IQ value. It doesn't. Computers can easily transfer several billion bits of information over a beam of light... Yet they are only doing what they are programmed to do. Instinct causes the animal world to do many amazing thigns... But the guiding force behind all of them is just that - instinct. Also, how much of the "information" contained in the whale's calls is actual data? How much of it is error-correction? remember, these sounds have to travel thousands of miles... If it is as important as you suggest it may be, you wouldn't want to lose a single bit of information, would you? Chaos theory dictates that over time, a single error would cause the entire call to change to, well, pure chaos very quickly were there errors. I propose that if there is any meaningful information in the calls of the whales, most of it is padded and safeguarded within a huge amount of repetition and error-correction, so that none of the actual info is lost.
Have you analysed the whale's calls? How much of it follows patterns? Computers are remarkably good at finding patterns. Good enough to pick out an mp3 of Motzart music out of a million mp3s containing only noise. Until you can give me the results of a comptuer analysis, I will remain a slight skeptic (although your point of view is interesting).



Oops, my mistake --- I should have put everything in that post of mine in quotes and said that I don't necessarily buy any of it.  I'll do that now.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: KKay on 07/08/06 at 6:34 pm

now i wonder why it is that i don't believe it but can spend hours reading and watching shows about it?

the mulder and scully in me won't ever agree.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 07/10/06 at 7:18 am


I don't think so. I believe in the paranormal, and MidKnightDarkness believes in the paranormal,.. And neither of us have had any paranormal experiences.





as do I. ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 07/10/06 at 3:04 pm


I don't think so. I believe in the paranormal, and MidKnightDarkness believes in the paranormal,.. And neither of us have had any paranormal experiences.




As much as MidKnightDarkness would like to  :(

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 07/10/06 at 3:39 pm


...And as much as JohnDenver would like to. Seriously, we need to hunt down those ghosts and force them to haunt us...



Well, now that I have directions to your house.. we can!


>:-}D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 07/10/06 at 7:37 pm



Well, now that I have directions to your house.. we can!


>:-}D



BOO!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: annonymouse on 08/18/06 at 11:17 pm

this really is a difficult topic for me. i believe i've seen a ghost, but i don't believe in all that spiritual mumbo jumbo.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: GREEN67 on 09/15/06 at 4:49 am

8)OK...PPLE are going to think I am nuts BUT....I am one of those PPLE who are very open and can FEEL spirits..and see them..ever since I was a child..I can go into a house and feel a presence..or a chill...goosebumps etc..I saw and heard MANY ghosts when I was a child..My grandmothers house was haunted..When I was a child also..( my parents have lived in the same house for 40 yrs )...I had MANY encounters with the supernatural...My room had a huge bay window and the curtains let the moonlight shine in..I awoke to the feeling of something pushing down on the end of my bed...Happened many, many times..but this time..in the moonlight I saw a dark figure...A black hooded figure..I knew right away it looked just like the Grim Reaper...( I AM NOT KIDDING )...he stood at the foot of my bed and then slowly came around to the right side...I was soo scared..You know when you want to scream..but you cant..he stood there for awhile then turned away and left...I immediately sat up and turned on the lamp and pinched myself...AND...when I was 19, I was a carpetlayer and was traveling home to TN from Florida...( where I lived at the time)..I was driving a Burgundy Ford F150..it was around 3 in the am...right outside of Chattanooga...I had to slam on the brakes...this thing...was just strolling across the road...My headlights caught the lower half of its body...walking upright..hands just like a man..covered in a dark reddish brown hair...I SWEAR it had to be Bigfoot..I firmly believe it!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/11/06 at 12:58 am

I could not answer the poll because it's too limiting.

I am a skeptic at the same time as the paranormal intrigues me. 

Do spirits of the dead lurk among us?  Quite possibly.  I'm not dismissive.  It's just that no offered evidence has convinced me that any specific case is true.  Same goes for extraterrestrial visitations, telekinesis, and so forth.  However, I have seen no proof convincing me paranormal phenomena do not or cannot exist.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
-- Donald Rumsfeld (a man who nearly convinced me Satan walked among us!)


One caveat, when it comes to the more fantastic legends of cryptozoology, I side with the debunkers.

Here is the paranormal paradox.  Faith.  You may believe in the paranormal.  However, once you demonstrate the existence of a paranormal phenomenon using scientific methods, than it is no longer paranormal.  It is normal.  It is part of the known world.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Snoopygirl on 12/04/06 at 7:50 pm

I have always believed in ghosts and the paranormal. I believe there are things to which we cannot explain. I took a picture at my uncle's gravesite a few years ago and I got something on the film that I can't explain. I would love to find somewhere I can take it to and have a professional examine it.  Also, my grandmother who lived with us died 2 years ago, and for a few months afterwards I kept hearing the light sounds of bells jingling. I traced it to a wind chime my niece gave her. But we kept the chimes indoors and in a spot where there wasn't no breeze at all. She kept them in her room. I'd like to think it was her, letting us know that she was still around.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: nicki_morrissey on 12/05/06 at 8:25 pm

I'm kinda torn, thanks to my boyfriend.

Not too long ago, I told Matt that I believe in ghosts. He was like, "You're agnostic, right? You don't have a religion because it hasn't been proven that there really is a God. So why do you believe in ghosts? Their existence hasn't been proven."

So for the sake of not being a hypocrite, I don't exactly know if I believe in paranormal things anymore... : (

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Marty McFly on 12/23/06 at 1:58 am


I believe that there are ghosts surrounding us.  I also believe in other life form of some kind. As far as Bigfoot....I know my two uncles claimed that they saw a creature of that nature sitting in the woods near their house...so, who knows? ???


I believe in it. Not sure exactly how it works, but I do believe ghosts are around (we probably just can't see them unless they choose to appear).

I'm almost positive one of the apartment complexes I used to live in was haunted. It just had that "eerie" feeling to it sometimes, like it would sound or feel like somebody was in the house. Such as doors or cabinets opening or closing, just general sounds of there being a person there, when there really wasn't. The floors creaked like hell too. Or, you could put something on a perfectly flat counter and it would roll.

I can say this somewhat humorously now, but there were times it was hard to relax with all this stuff that felt like noises or a presence. This was in 1995. I was 13 and a half, old enough to be home by myself after school, so sometimes I'd go around the house with a huge metal baseball bat, creeping around the hallways and suddenly entering a room like a cop, lol. ;)


Long story short, there was never any one huge occurence, but all kinds of little ones put together that made me think that townhouse was haunted. Perhaps someone died in it beforehand - that's not to make jokes or anything. Seriously, I have heard of many many instances of hauntings like that where a person died, especially before their time.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 12/23/06 at 5:13 pm




I can say this somewhat humorously now, but there were times it was hard to relax with all this stuff that felt like noises or a presence. This was in 1995. I was 13 and a half, old enough to be home by myself after school, so sometimes I'd go around the house with a huge metal baseball bat, creeping around the hallways and suddenly entering a room like a cop, lol. ;)






as long as you were not scaling walls!! ;) ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Marty McFly on 12/24/06 at 12:15 am



as long as you were not scaling walls!! ;) ;D


No, I never went that far. ;)

Although, I did once play "Ghostbusters" (the song) really loud. That actually worked for awhile. ;D


The upstairs seemed okay pretty much. I always heard stuff that sounded like it was toward the front. There was even a little makeshift crawl space downstairs that I'm guessing someone who'd lived there before had made, that went from one of the closets to underneath the stairs. We stored some stuff in there for awhile. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 12/24/06 at 9:13 pm


No, I never went that far. ;)

Although, I did once play "Ghostbusters" (the song) really loud. That actually worked for awhile. ;D


The upstairs seemed okay pretty much. I always heard stuff that sounded like it was toward the front. There was even a little makeshift crawl space downstairs that I'm guessing someone who'd lived there before had made, that went from one of the closets to underneath the stairs. We stored some stuff in there for awhile. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?



hmmm...could be. Maybe something fishy went on in there, when someone else lived there...ya never know.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: shirleyrocks on 01/05/07 at 1:36 pm

Haha, I'm one of the view who believes in Bigfoot, eh?  :D  That's fine.  I just like to believe that there's something more out there, that is unknown by humans.  Keeps the hope alive that we don't know ALL there is to know, it'll forever be an evolving/learning thing. 

My whole theory on UFO's is that they're time travelers, hehe.  They're what human beings will eventually evolve too.  They're just taking "vacations" to present day to see their ancestors.  Am I alone on this theory? HEHEHE.  ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 01/05/07 at 7:24 pm


Haha, I'm one of the view who believes in Bigfoot, eh?   :D  That's fine.  I just like to believe that there's something more out there, that is unknown by humans.  Keeps the hope alive that we don't know ALL there is to know, it'll forever be an evolving/learning thing. 

My whole theory on UFO's is that they're time travelers, hehe.  They're what human beings will eventually evolve too.  They're just taking "vacations" to present day to see their ancestors.  Am I alone on this theory? HEHEHE.  ;D



I wish I could time travel....that would make my life so much happier! :D ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Marty McFly on 01/06/07 at 3:45 am

As much as I'd like to time travel, I think it's a fantasy outside of Doc and Marty's universe.

If it does exist, I think it would have to work like it did in the Bill and Ted movies: a "fixed" history where you can't really "change" anything, since what you did was always part of history. I also heard a theory once that said if you could time travel, you just wouldn't be able to travel back to before the time machine was invented. That actually makes sense to me.


Honestly, the reason I'm so iffy on believing it exists is that, by logic we'd see tons of time travellers here already. What I mean is, let's say time travel exists in the future - some genius rocket scientist builds one in 3000 and people now have access to it. Wouldn't they come back here and be able to change the course of history?

Then again, if the UFOs are time machines, heck, maybe they change things every time they're here. Maybe this isn't the "original" 2007 (sort of like the different 1985's in BTTF)! ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: shirleyrocks on 01/08/07 at 1:13 pm

Now there's a thought.  It could be version 3290390390 of 2007.  Hahaha.  Maybe the UFO's just know NOT to mess w/ anything to alter the future, they're just time traveling as a "vacation" to see how things were "back in the day" and stuff.  Just a theory. :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: nicki_morrissey on 01/08/07 at 5:27 pm

My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?

Has anyone else ever considered this?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 01/08/07 at 9:52 pm


My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?

Has anyone else ever considered this?



Yes, I have thought about this quite often. I mean, there are the planets....just sitting there....they have to have SOME purpose...so why not for other life forms?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 01/08/07 at 10:17 pm


My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?

Has anyone else ever considered this?


Yeah, I've figured that there are probably aliens in another galaxy or something...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Fred on 01/19/07 at 8:45 pm


If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime.  If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time.  If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so.  But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.


Yes, that is exactly the way I feel. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: tokjct on 05/16/07 at 7:24 pm


Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.


MidnightD has made the point exactly...I have experienced too many supernatural occurrences...and I am well schooled in university science and philosophy.  Which means, though I have learned the meaning of healthy skepticism...there is too much that science and logic cannot explain.

Remember...it is almost universally acknowledged that a human being only utilizes a small percentage of his brain...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: statsqueen on 07/04/07 at 5:35 pm

Yes...

1. In elementary school, went to a b'day party and we ended up walking through the cemetery.  Some of us walked by the mausoleum, some walked over it.  Those of us who walked by it (including me) saw an opaque white hand reach out from one of the vaults.

2.  When I was a child, I kept my bedroom door open.  A noise woke me up in the middle of the night and I saw the shadow of an old man walking by my room on the brass thing my mom had hanging on the wall opposite my bedroom.  I went out but there wasn't anything there.  (I know I was awake.)

3.  Halloween a few years ago.  The radio in the car wasn't working, so we always kept it turned off.  As we were driving through town, it turned on by itself full volume.

4.  I believe I have at least one guardian angel (my grandmother, a friend of mine, and/or my aunt).  I was in several close calls in the car, but came through without a scratch or dent.  It truly felt as if there was something or someone was in the car (or around the car)protecting me.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 08/17/07 at 8:48 am

Well, I said "No I do not believe in any of it", but that was because there was not a softer option which would have let me still say no, but to add I would be happy to believe in it if I saw evidence of it for myself  :)

Err, not that I want to, if ya get my drift  ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 08/17/07 at 8:53 am



Remember...it is almost universally acknowledged that a human being only utilizes a small percentage of his brain...


I have been hearing than for years....  Snopes.com suggests it is a hoax (perhaps a better word is fallacy) :

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 08/19/07 at 6:37 pm

After having lived in a home with activity, I no longer just believe in the possibility of the paranormal, I can confirm there is something out there. It wasn't pleasant in our case.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: xSiouXBoIx on 08/20/07 at 5:23 pm

i believe in ghosts...my family and people who've stayed over at our house swear they've seen ghosts. i'm sure i've seen some, too. but what's weird is that no one has had a ghost sighting here for last 5 or 6 years. i guess they just disapearred.

and one time my sister had a physic party here, and the physic told her that there was a ghost in her room that had been looking over her since she was a baby. but she also told my mom that she would be going on a vacation to florida, and that never happend  ::)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Red Ant on 08/20/07 at 9:35 pm

When I was younger, I used to see things before my eyes, things I called "fragments". They passed by very closely, and at quite random intervals and intensities. I thought, back then, these might be spirits. Then they stopped happening, and I totally forgot about them until a few weeks ago when I injured my eye and was experiencing flashes out of that eye.

A Google search of the possible effects of these flashes eventually turned up this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floater

So my childhood "spirits" are explained away.

Of course, I still have no explanation for the Cohoke Lights, so...  :-\\

Ant


Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 08/21/07 at 6:14 am

I hate those "Floaters". You aren't quite sure if it is real or not, and it starts to drive you nuts. We used to have these weird little shadows that would go by the foyer, just out of the side of your vision.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Jessica on 10/02/07 at 4:36 pm

Living in Chicago now, you hear a lot of ghost stories that I personally believe in. There's the old story of Resurrection Mary, Ghosts of Flight 191, and then general stuff about Al Capone, John Dillinger, and the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

There is a place that offers the "Weird Chicago" tour that does a Haunted Halloween type thing, but I'm too scared to go by myself, even though you're in a big group of people. :P

http://www.prairieghosts.com/midwest3.html

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/02/07 at 4:48 pm


Living in Chicago now, you hear a lot of ghost stories that I personally believe in. There's the old story of Resurrection Mary, Ghosts of Flight 191, and then general stuff about Al Capone, John Dillinger, and the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

There is a place that offers the "Weird Chicago" tour that does a Haunted Halloween type thing, but I'm too scared to go by myself, even though you're in a big group of people. :P

http://www.prairieghosts.com/midwest3.html


That's so cool!  I would be scared too, but that's what makes it fun.  Besides, Rice will save you!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 10/03/07 at 3:02 pm

My wife and I took off to St Augustine for a night of Ghost tours and sight seeing. Aside from a really fine day, there was no out of the ordinary experiences... until we got home. As we walked in and were saying good bye to my Step Daughter and her boyfriend who were watching the boys, the TV and the surround sound both came on at full volume.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Jessica on 10/03/07 at 4:37 pm


That's so cool!  I would be scared too, but that's what makes it fun.  Besides, Rice will save you!


Oh, he's one of the non-believers. I told him just wait, something is going to happen to make you believe. He still scoffs at that. That's okay, our building is pretty old (1928) and creepy at night....



My wife and I took off to St Augustine for a night of Ghost tours and sight seeing. Aside from a really fine day, there was no out of the ordinary experiences... until we got home. As we walked in and were saying good bye to my Step Daughter and her boyfriend who were watching the boys, the TV and the surround sound both came on at full volume.


Yikes! :o

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 10/03/07 at 6:30 pm

That was the "just interesting" stuff. The serious stuff was enough to scare ya.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 11/12/07 at 12:59 pm

A co-worker of mine told me a story the other day that made me feel creepy. She just recently moved into this house that used to be occupied by a man that she used to work for..years ago.  Anyway, the man has been deceased for 6 years now..infact, this past Saturday was the anniversary of his death (also was his birthday..the poor chap died on his birthday).  So anyway, she told me this story about 4 days before the anniversary of his death...

She said that in the middle of the night her doorbell would ring but there would never be anyone there.  Then....this is really strange, she has yet to even get a phone service hooked up...there is an old phone in the house..but has not had service in years...anyway...her phone kept ringing..and nobody was on the other line!!!!!

I told her that perhaps the spirit of the man was trying to get ahold of her to let her know that he was glad she was there...or something. Anyway, after Saturday came and went...she told me that the phonecalls/doorbells ringing stopped. :o :o :o

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 11/12/07 at 1:09 pm

It might help to know how he died, to better interpret the ringing bells. Perhaps he answered the door in the middle of the night and was shot?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 11/12/07 at 1:13 pm


It might help to know how he died, to better interpret the ringing bells. Perhaps he answered the door in the middle of the night and was shot?


I believe that she said that he died of natural causes...he was pretty elderly when he passed.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Reynolds1863 on 11/12/07 at 2:24 pm

Yes.  I've had too much weird stuff happen to me not to.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 12/02/07 at 1:24 am



1) I think it's pretty arrogant to think that Earth is the only inhabited planet in the solar system....so I wonder to the aliens believe in us? when we go into space are they debating the existence of UFOs?

2) not a big believer in bigfoot...

3) I absolutely believe in ghosts.... I saw one at a friends house when I was 14... call it a floater if you will but it was definately a disembodied spirit floating over my sleeping friend. I was wide awake...as an only child I have never been able to sleep in a room with other people so I stayed up all night... that thing floating over my friend looked at me!

I also worked in a haunted toys r us.  I went into the back room.
a. A pallet jack that was stationary in the corner began moving across the floor. I was alone in the back and the ground was flat... the pallet jack went from a being completely still to moving.
b. I was working in the baby aisle, the baby swings were right behind me. I was alone on the aisle every swing started swinging.... some of those swings had to be wound up
c. I walked down an aisle to get to the back of the store and check on the work some people were doing. When I returned to where I was working I came back thru the same aisle....everything on that aisle was on the floor...both sides all the product.  There wasn't enough time for someone to "play a joke"- they couldn't have done it without making any noise... no one on the staff would have done it because it required all of us to get it cleaned up....

Diid I mention we were working ... ..

wait for it




the graveyard shift.....  ;D  aside from this little joke everything I stated above about the store is absolutely true! 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dominic L. on 12/02/07 at 1:49 am

I do think Earth is the only inhabited planet as far as multi-celled organisms go,

But I'm sure there are an infinite about of planets with lifeforms on them in other solar systems.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: ladyhawk on 12/02/07 at 1:54 am

Ghosts- I have some scary stories for you guys after you get know me. They DO EXIST!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: tokjct on 12/03/07 at 9:59 pm


I have been hearing than for years....  Snopes.com suggests it is a hoax (perhaps a better word is fallacy) :

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp


I should have been more specific:    ???

SciAm.com logo

News - April 19, 2007
The Brain May Use Only 20 Percent of Its Memory-Forming Neurons
Study shows that that pace at which a brain cell activates a key protein may influence its role in memory formation—a finding that could lead to new Alzheimer therapies

By Nikhil Swaminathan
Remember the old myth that people only use 10 percent of their brains? Although a new study confirmed that bromide to be apocryphal, it did find that we may only use 20 percent of the nerve cells in our midbrain to form memories.

Researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles, and The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto monitored neurons in the lateral amygdalae (two almond-shaped regions on either side of the midbrain associated with learning and memory) of mice to see whether the presence of the CREB (cAMP response element binding) protein plays a key role in signaling brain cells to make memories. CREB, a transcription factor that typically increases the production of other proteins in cells, is believed to be involved in memory formation in organisms from sea slugs to humans. Scientists hope that their findings, reported in the current issue of Science, may help pave the way to new treatments for Alzheimer's Disease.

Researchers injected a vector designed to return CREB production to normal in mice that had been genetically modified to underproduce the protein. After being injected, these mice, who also were memory-impaired, performed as well as normal mice in memory tests. During the trials, researchers played a sound and then shocked the animals; when the sound was played again, normal mice and those with rescued CREB function froze—for a certain period of time—a reaction typical of fear.

When the researchers later dissected the mice's brains, they found that the fluorescent probes they had attached to the CREB vectors showed they had affected only about 20 percent of the neurons in the lateral amygdala. "That surprised us. We thought that we would have to affect a lot more neurons in order to see a big change in memory," says study co-author Sheena Josselyn, a neurophysiologist at The Hospital for Sick Children. "Not all participate in every memory. Maybe we're biasing these neurons to participate in this memory and all you need'' to compel it."

To determine if the CREB-producing cells were involved, the scientists then tried to follow the memory-making process by inserting a probe, which would give off a fluorescent tag if RNA from a gene known as Arc had recently been transcribed in brain cells. Arc levels are normally low in a cell but increase considerably when neuronal activity has taken place. The RNA is transcribed in the nucleus of a cell and then transported through the cell's body to its dendrite, the projection of the neuron that receives information from other cells. "Arc RNA provides a really good molecular marker of when this neuron was active," says Josselyn. She adds that if the team found RNA in the nucleus of neurons immediately after a training event, they knew cells had been active within the last five minutes; if the probe was in the dendrite, they estimated activity had taken place 20 minutes earlier.

The team found CREB-enabled nuclei to be three times more likely to have the Arc signature in them than nuclei in CREB-impaired neurons. The researchers also tested normal mice that were injected with a vector that would selectively decrease CREB function in some of their neurons. After running the fear-training trials again, they noticed that the mice learned normally, suggesting that the neurons unaffected by the CREB-reducing vector were still producing enough CREB to make the memories.

The results: the memory trace, signified by Arc, showed that activity had taken place in 20 percent of neurons. "We think that it's really a competition, that neurons are really battling it out" amongst each other to be involved in the memory-making process, says Josselyn. "It's like grading on a curve … the same number of students are going to get As"—or in this case help make the memory.

It is the same percentage, but not the same neurons, however, that create each memory. Also, researchers are not certain what causes naturally boost CREB function and, therefore, the likelihood of any particular neuron participating in making a memory. But Josselyn speculates that the brain likely "differentiates different memories by having different neurons encode them."

In the future, Josselyn says, this mechanism could be harnessed to produce a new treatment for Alzheimer's disease. "In time, we're going to have some sort of neuron-replacement therapy for Alzheimer's," she says, conceding, "It's a little sci-fi right now." But, if new neurons are inserted into a damaged brain, modulating CREB function could help bias the healing brain to use the functioning neurons and not its injured population.
Further Reading

    * Sensor-Rigged Helmet Gives Football Players a Heads Up on Concussions
    * Anxiety and Alzheimers
    * How does short-term memory work in relation to long-term memory? Are short-term daily memories somehow transferred to long-term storage while we sleep?
    * Eat (Less) to Live (Longer)



    * Silent Seizures May Cause Alzheimer's Dementia
    * News Scan Briefs
    * Can the Ravages of Dementia in HIV/AIDS Be Arrested?
    * Fact or Fiction?: Antiperspirants Do More Than Block Sweat

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: ninny on 12/17/07 at 5:26 pm

When my daughter was little she use to stand in her crib and just talk an look up in the air, I always felt like she was talking to my mother,who had passed away. Years later when she was around 7 she claimed she saw my mother floating in the closet.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: haleym8826 on 01/11/08 at 8:59 am

Here is one for you.

A few weeks ago I stayed over at a friends brand new house with one of his other friends. Well we were all in hisroom playing video games and then somehow the topic of ghost stories came up. Well My friend was telling a ghost story about one of his first nights in the house when he was trying to fall asleep in his room facing the door. There was no one else awake in the house at the time, his father was asleep as well as his little brothers but he swore he saw a white blur flash by his bedroom door. So being a little spooked he got up from his bed and walked out into the hallway and standing at the very end near his living room there was a little boy walking a white dog around the house. Just to be sure he wasn't hallucinating my friend closed his eyes and then reopened them and both the boy and the dog were gone. That same night when we were all in bed I swear saw three white blurs flash by the door to the spare room door.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: KKay on 01/11/08 at 9:03 am

I just think that if ghosts or communicating spirits are around, then why have so few of us seen them or been spoken to?  is it the person that's not open to it?  Do we just not look for it?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: haleym8826 on 01/11/08 at 9:10 am


I just think that if ghosts or communicating spirits are around, then why have so few of us seen them or been spoken to?  is it the person that's not open to it?  Do we just not look for it?


I think that maybe it is because we aren't looking for it because as little kids it was always something that was only used to scare us into doing what our parents said. For instance they would say "Clean your room or the Boogie monster is going to get you." Because of this we just assume that ghosts and any other thing of  spectral nature is all a big joke and it isn't until we hear stories like these that we actually pay attention.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: KKay on 01/11/08 at 10:08 am

good point. sometimes i think someone sees it because they want to.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 01/11/08 at 5:37 pm

It's like when the kids are terrorizing the house, you just sort of tune it out. People also either doubt what they see, or just deny it outright so that they aren't labeled as a nut. When it reaches out and touches you, you tend to have to believe.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 01/13/08 at 1:10 pm

We all live in a porous and fluid universe, in which persistence of form and separation from others is all just an illusion.

Persistence of form is an illusion due to what I'll call "The Snowflake Theory": since matter is ultimately nothing more than patterns of energy (quarks, super-strings, or whatever physicists like to call it these days), and since we can't simultaneously pin-down both the location and the momentum of a packet of energy (Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle), that rock you see in your garden may look exactly the same from moment to moment, but in reality, it's never the same rock again from moment to moment - like snowflakes, no two momentary configurations of that rock's subatomic energy patterns are ever the same from one moment to the next. The apparent persistence of the rock's form to the human eye from one moment to the next is an optical illusion.

Separation from others is an illusion due to the same underlying fact of matter's true nature as fluidic ever-changing subatomic energy patterns.  Atoms are mostly empty space.  Particles of matter are patterns of energy.  Energy and empty space together form the unified continuum we call spacetime.  On the macro-level, you do not see or feel yourself putting your hand through a block of lead (unless you're Chuck Norris) - but on the micro-level, your hand and that block of lead are joined together in the form of heat, electromagnetic interactions, tiny particles of matter (energy patterns), and spacetime.  Once again, what's apparent on the macro-level is not the underlying truth of what's really going on - separation is both an optical and a mechanical illusion - although you'd be well advised not to test THAT theory by going around punching blocks of lead.  We're talking about "degrees" of apparent illusion here: the subatomic constituents of your hand and the lead block are unified as one continuum on the micro-level, but on the macro-level, that underlying unification can be masked equally well by either a healthy hand or a fractured hand!   ;D

Perhaps the phenomena we call "the paranormal" is to be expected in this porous and fluid universe, and is nothing special or unusual after all.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Spirit of 76 on 03/11/08 at 4:35 pm

Well to go along kinda with the last poster I believe what is percieved as supernatural (outside of hoaxes) is just undiscovered natural phenomenia and or technology.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: colette on 04/03/08 at 5:28 pm

I don't believe in Ghosts.
Cos i think once your dead your dead.

But i find it illogical not to believe that in the millions and millions of gallexies out that that there can't be some intelligent life.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 04/06/08 at 12:43 pm


I don't believe in Ghosts.
Cos i think once your dead your dead.

But i find it illogical not to believe that in the millions and millions of gallexies out that that there can't be some intelligent life.



so all the people who claim to have seen a ghost (me included)  are lying but those UFO freaks could be telling the truth?  ???

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: midnite on 05/01/08 at 7:04 pm

I want to believe in the paranormal but I need proof first.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Shacks Train on 05/13/08 at 10:36 am

I Don't believe in the paranormal cause I got one of these!
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
The transmissions from the astralspace Zombies can't affect you anymore cause they blew up the Satelite!
Power of Imagination can be a wonderfull thing! :o :o :o :o
Just Like Pyramid Power & Mythbusters!
if there were any intelegent life forms out there they'd steer clear of us!
http://www.zshare.net/audio/119630990f8874af/

Best Enjoy Life as You'll Never get Out Alive! ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: pimpag on 07/08/08 at 5:41 am

Deffinately, i've always got Most Haunted on - it amazes me. I wish Derek was still in it though, i miss him.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: LilSmurf on 07/11/08 at 1:28 pm

Yes, because Ghost Hunters made me believe! :-p I love that show. Anyone else watch it?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 07/24/08 at 7:55 am


Yes, because Ghost Hunters made me believe! :-p I love that show. Anyone else watch it?

While I am a firm believer in the Paranormal, GH and MH both are highly suspect. I don't doubt for a minute a lot of their "evidence" is staged.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Johnny_D on 07/25/08 at 3:04 pm

I believe in the Parrotnormal ...

j/k ... but Grey Parrots are kinda cute.  :)

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/bird-pictures-breeders-chicks/african-grey-parrot-pictures-breeders-chicks/pictures/african-grey-parrot-0015.jpg

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Bobby on 07/25/08 at 8:05 pm


I believe in the Parrotnormal ...

j/k ... but Grey Parrots are kinda cute.  :)

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/bird-pictures-breeders-chicks/african-grey-parrot-pictures-breeders-chicks/pictures/african-grey-parrot-0015.jpg


At least the parrotnormal seems more plausible to me at this point in time, lol.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Capt Quirk on 07/25/08 at 9:16 pm

I have an African Grey too... and a small flock o' Finches :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Haman on 08/22/08 at 4:39 am

Do you believe in the paranormal?

Maybe you should ask yourself first if the paranormal believes in you.

;D Sorry. Just kidding.  :P

Belief or disbelief don't matter.

If you don't believe in the paranormal, then the paranormal doesn't exist for you. No big deal.

If you do believe in the paranormal, but simply dwell on that belief and do nothing about it but fantasize or be entertained, then that's what you're going to get.

Maybe, just maybe, you can set aside belief and disbelief and explore for yourself.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: 2oldskool on 11/05/08 at 1:45 pm

Catch some good episodes of Ghost Hunters if you want proof. The lighthouse episode and the Stanley Hotel episodes are good ones to start with. :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dagwood on 11/05/08 at 4:02 pm

Stanley Hotel was creepy.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: haleym8826 on 12/22/08 at 6:41 pm


Catch some good episodes of Ghost Hunters if you want proof. The lighthouse episode and the Stanley Hotel episodes are good ones to start with. :)


I am not saying that there is absolutely no way the paranormal can be real but i am going to say that things on tv can be easily digitalized and edited to make you think what you seeing is real.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Haman on 01/05/09 at 2:47 pm


I am not saying that there is absolutely no way the paranormal can be real but i am going to say that things on tv can be easily digitalized and edited to make you think what you seeing is real.


That is very true. You are perfectly right.

We might, however, take into account the fact that despite something being imitated or falsified it does not necessarily mean that the real thing does not exist.

I mean, in a film you can see a man shooting someone and everything is false. The characters are false (they are actors), the blood is false, the injury is false, no one is really dead, etc.

But that does not alter the fact that you can be shot by a gunman and be dead, for real. Very real.

Just an observation.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 01/05/09 at 7:52 pm


We might, however, take into account the fact that despite something being imitated or falsified it does not necessarily mean that the real thing does not exist.

I mean, in a film you can see a man shooting someone and everything is false. The characters are false (they are actors), the blood is false, the injury is false, no one is really dead, etc.


The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim.

You and I would agree, for example, that there is no invisible pink dragon in my living room, because it is impossible for a dragon to be simultaneously invisible and pink.

Were I to photoshop a picture of a Komodo dragon into a picture my living room, and recolor the dragon to be pink, would you suddenly believe that there was a visible pink dragon in my living room?  I mean, you saw the photoshop, and it was fake.  But that doesn't really mean there isn't a pink dragon in my living room.  Right?

There's a very good reason why the burden of the proof lies on the one making the claim. 

There's a pink dragon in my living room.  Do you believe me?  Why, or why not?  (If you've got a good answer for "why", I'd also like to mention that I have the deed to the Brooklyn Bridge, and I'd like to sell it to you.  If you've got a good answer for "why not", you now understand why it's equally irrational to believe in the supernatural.)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/15/09 at 12:25 pm

I WANT to belive in ghosts and the supernatural, I really do.  Unfortunately NOTHING has ever happened in front of me or anyone I know (and I know a lot of people) to lead me to believe that it is real.  How come soemone I don't know has seen a ghost and I have not.  When i so badly want to.  I remain skeptical yet hopeful.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/24/09 at 6:46 pm


I WANT to belive in ghosts and the supernatural, I really do.  Unfortunately NOTHING has ever happened in front of me or anyone I know (and I know a lot of people) to lead me to believe that it is real.  How come soemone I don't know has seen a ghost and I have not.  When i so badly want to.  I remain skeptical yet hopeful.


my experiences were very real. one was quite frightening...because of my age the other in hindsight was a prankster and meant no harm. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: loki 13 on 01/25/09 at 4:20 pm

To quote Evelyn, from the 1999 movie "The Mummy."

"I believe that if I can see it and I can touch it then I know it's real, that's what I believe."

Movie or not, that quote sums up my belief. I believe that no matter how strange, how eerie, how surreal an
event may be, all things --- eventually --- can be explained by science.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/25/09 at 4:35 pm


To quote Evelyn, from the 1999 movie "The Mummy."

"I believe that if I can see it and I can touch it then I know it's real, that's what I believe."

Movie or not, that quote sums up my belief. I believe that no matter how strange, how eerie, how surreal an
event may be, all things --- eventually --- can be explained by science.


okay so explain how a wind up baby swing started swinging on its own when I was the only on the aisle and it was perfectly still when I started working on that aisle.

Explain how a pallet jack that is parked in a corner starts moving (not drifting or rolling) but moving  across a flat surface.

Or how an aisle in a toy store has all its contents on a shelf one minute and then everything on the floor a couple minutes later... I mean everything on the aisle was on the... it was a grave shift so no customers and none of the workers were on the aisle at the time.

Don't know... it felt like a ghost to me!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: loki 13 on 01/25/09 at 5:26 pm


okay so explain how a wind up baby swing started swinging on its own when I was the only on the aisle and it was perfectly still when I started working on that aisle.

Explain how a pallet jack that is parked in a corner starts moving (not drifting or rolling) but moving  across a flat surface.

Or how an aisle in a toy store has all its contents on a shelf one minute and then everything on the floor a couple minutes later... I mean everything on the aisle was on the... it was a grave shift so no customers and none of the workers were on the aisle at the time.

Don't know... it felt like a ghost to me!


I didn't say I could explain it, I said science could explain it. Unfortunately, I'm not a scientist but that doesn't mean I can't believe in a
scientific explanation.

Wind up things, swings and toys and such always have a bit of stored energy in it's mechanism. Any little bump caused by vibration
or breeze could free the stored energy and cause the mechanism to start moving. I wasn't there so I will not say that's what happened
but that's what could have happened.

I just can't believe in invisible things creating havoc on a real world. When a body dies, it dies, no soul, no spirit, no
forever being a surreal entity in very real existence. Not all things can be explained now but I believe eventually, with
enough research, all will be explained.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/25/09 at 6:03 pm


I didn't say I could explain it, I said science could explain it. Unfortunately, I'm not a scientist but that doesn't mean I can't believe in a
scientific explanation.




nice back peddle  ;)

;D


well since I witnessed these things and at least two apparitions I'm gonna hold on to my beliefs

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: loki 13 on 01/25/09 at 6:24 pm


nice back peddle  ;)

;D


well since I witnessed these things and at least two apparitions I'm gonna hold on to my beliefs


Odd thing is, I own numerous books on the paranormal, I love a good ghost story. I also watch "A Haunting," I think it's
on the Discovery channel, but I still don't believe it's entities creating havoc. More people than not believe in ghost and
that's okay, it's just not for me.

I am the one who goes to a magic show, not because I love magic, but to figure out how the trick is done. I am the same
way when it comes to ghost and ufos, even though I saw one, I want to figure out what really happened. What did I actually
see? what is the scientific explanation of what I'd seen? unfortunatlly I'll never know, but I do know it wasn't aliens.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/25/09 at 6:46 pm


Odd thing is, I own numerous books on the paranormal, I love a good ghost story. I also watch "A Haunting," I think it's
on the Discovery channel, but I still don't believe it's entities creating havoc. More people than not believe in ghost and
that's okay, it's just not for me.

I am the one who goes to a magic show, not because I love magic, but to figure out how the trick is done. I am the same
way when it comes to ghost and ufos, even though I saw one, I want to figure out what really happened. What did I actually
see? what is the scientific explanation of what I'd seen? unfortunatlly I'll never know, but I do know it wasn't aliens.


my friends laughs at me... we used to make it a hobby to go to open houses...we both have always wanted to own a house so we would go to open houses (mostly because we wanted to live vicariously through others...) we would lie to real estate about our status so they'd think we were viable clients...

One day we walked into a house and my friend says I went completely white... the next thing she knew I was running out the house!  She looked at the agent and said sorry then followed me out... when she asked me what was wrong I couldn't really explain it... I said I didn't see anything but I felt something...someone died in that house. She was like BS- NO WAY...

I said I'm telling you someone died in that house... she urged me to go back to the house with her... I followed  her to the door but refused to go back in.  The agent came to door and asked if I was okay.

My friend was laughing at me and told the agent in a "she's a little crazy" kind of voice... my friend thinks someone died here.

The agent just stared at me and said- How did you know? the owner died in her room a few months ago....


Dude my friend still laughs because she I looked funny running from the house but she is totally freaked out by the fact that I sensed that... she wants me to go inspect her house when she is finally able to buy one  ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 01/25/09 at 7:23 pm


okay so explain how a wind up baby swing started swinging on its own when I was the only on the aisle and it was perfectly still when I started working on that aisle.

Explain how a pallet jack that is parked in a corner starts moving (not drifting or rolling) but moving  across a flat surface.

Or how an aisle in a toy store has all its contents on a shelf one minute and then everything on the floor a couple minutes later... I mean everything on the aisle was on the... it was a grave shift so no customers and none of the workers were on the aisle at the time.


Wind-up toy swing, big heavy pallet jack:  What PhillyCheeseSteak said.  Things with springs or hydraulics can do interesting things for a long time after the last time you touched 'em.  (The swing probably had one last "tick" of the clockspring/ratchet mechanism in it.  There's insufficient data in your description of the pallet jack's motion to speculate beyond something analagous to the swing.)

Aisle of toys:  The shelves may have been stocked correctly at the start of the day, but hundreds of customers picking up merchandise and randomly stuffing it back on the shelf, may have left it in an unstable configuration.  If you were stocking a nearby shelf, the shift in weight may have changed the shape of the shelf, which off the avalanche. 

You mention it was the graveyard shift; the building's HVAC systems may have turned down the heat/air-conditioning for the duration of the shift, which is a great way to get long metal shelves to contract/expand, and even change shape or "pop" out their dents, even when nobody's around.  If the toys are poorly-stacked, that could also trigger an avalanche.

(It's also a good way to get metallic springs to contract and expand, which may be a factor in the toy swing and/or the hydraulic jack.  If these incidents also happened on the graveyard shift, have you considered the possibility that they happen all the time but you never notice them when there are hundreds of customers busily moving/stomping around the floor?)


Don't know... it felt like a ghost to me!


I hear strange creaking noises every night as the nearly-empty building shrinks in the cold.  I don't hear the noises during the day, because the foot traffic of wide-awake humans releases the stresses of thermal expansion frequently and silently, plus the ventilation system drowns out much of the low-level noise.

I've been woken up by mysterious crackling sounds in the middle of the night, and it wasn't the building.  They come from (gasp!) my own bedroom.  It came from the direction of the wastebasket in which I had crumpled the cellophane from a recently-acquired bunch of DVDs. 

Now, is it more likely that  the cellophane is slowly releasing the potential energy I stored in it by crumpling it, and I just couldn't hear the unwrinkling during the movie, but now that it's quiet and the room's still slowly changing temperature, I can hear it?  Or is it more likely that Slimer has a Rule-34-style fetish for cellophane?  (Rule 34 says that "There is porn of it.  No exceptions".  I was dumb enough to check.  There is porn of it.  That's not ectoplasm.)

Seriously, if you didn't already know what a ghost was and/or believe in them, would you really have invented the idea of "ghost" as the most likely explanation?  Or would you have come up with something more likely?

Once upon a time, we didn't believe in meteors.  Rocks, after all, do not fall from the sky.

Except, of course, when they do.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  The evidence for meteors was extraordinary.  Ghosts, not so much.

And while we're on the subject, Charles Fort kicked ass.  In an age of instant global communications (and democratization of video publishing via YouTube), why we don't we see reports of rains of frogs and fish as often as we did in the 19th century?  Nancy Grace's fearmongering - by turning the parents of murder victims into celebrities - grates on my nerves.  Whatever happened to the Mad Fishmonger?  I miss that guy.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/25/09 at 8:11 pm


okay so explain how a wind up baby swing started swinging on its own when I was the only on the aisle and it was perfectly still when I started working on that aisle.

Explain how a pallet jack that is parked in a corner starts moving (not drifting or rolling) but moving  across a flat surface.

Or how an aisle in a toy store has all its contents on a shelf one minute and then everything on the floor a couple minutes later... I mean everything on the aisle was on the... it was a grave shift so no customers and none of the workers were on the aisle at the time.

Don't know... it felt like a ghost to me!


Mice?  Rats?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/25/09 at 9:44 pm


Wind-up toy swing, big heavy pallet jack:  What PhillyCheeseSteak said.  Things with springs or hydraulics can do interesting things for a long time after the last time you touched 'em.  (The swing probably had one last "tick" of the clockspring/ratchet mechanism in it.  There's insufficient data in your description of the pallet jack's motion to speculate beyond something analagous to the swing.)



I was working in toys r us...it was after midnight the store closed at 10. I was the shift supervisor and assigned people there stations so I knew where everyone was working ...  I worked the baby aisle that night. I had been on the aisle alone for over twenty minutes... the swing started swinging at full speed like it had been given a full wind- I have seen those last minute "ticks" before they play slow and just for a second or two and sound like a toy running on low batteries... this was fast, swinging hard and went on for a while... I was too busy shytting my pants to keep track of the time.


As for the pallet jack I had to toss the nights worth of cardboard into the compacter... the I was back there for a half an hour or so breaking down boxes and tossing them in the compactor... not I hadn't run the compactor yet but it wouldn't matter because the pallet jacked had been parked on the other side of the store room... there was no wind, no one came in an pushed it. It was me and the pallet jack and the ghost... and the sucker rolled across the floor by it self...




Aisle of toys:  The shelves may have been stocked correctly at the start of the day, but hundreds of customers picking up merchandise and randomly stuffing it back on the shelf, may have left it in an unstable configuration.  If you were stocking a nearby shelf, the shift in weight may have changed the shape of the shelf, which off the avalanche. 

You mention it was the graveyard shift; the building's HVAC systems may have turned down the heat/air-conditioning for the duration of the shift, which is a great way to get long metal shelves to contract/expand, and even change shape or "pop" out their dents, even when nobody's around.  If the toys are poorly-stacked, that could also trigger an avalanche.


As for the aisle incident... have you ever seen the plastic foods aisle in a toys r us in the 80s? there were two kinds of stock... nice square boxes that sat on a shelf and bagged stuff that hung on pegs...  I walked down the aisle to go help one of my staff with something on a different aisle...we were not stocking that aisle that night-  everything was in order. I came back a couple of minutes later and everything... and I mean everything was on the floor.  No employees were over there. there were five of us working I was with two of the them and the other two were in other areas of the store... even if they were that devilsh they did not have enough time to get everything on the floor nor would they have been able to get out of the aisle for the mess that was made... there was nothing left on any of the shelves though all the shelves were in tact nothing hanging on a peg tho all the pegs were still in place....


(It's also a good way to get metallic springs to contract and expand, which may be a factor in the toy swing and/or the hydraulic jack.  If these incidents also happened on the graveyard shift, have you considered the possibility that they happen all the time but you never notice them when there are hundreds of customers busily moving/stomping around the floor?)

I hear strange creaking noises every night as the nearly-empty building shrinks in the cold.  I don't hear the noises during the day, because the foot traffic of wide-awake humans releases the stresses of thermal expansion frequently and silently, plus the ventilation system drowns out much of the low-level noise.


I live in the real world I know houses settle but what I am talking about is an unusual occurrence significant enough that they can't be easily explained away... I didn't tell you about the box that jumped off a shelf because you'd say it had simply shifted and fell because of the weight of the other boxes around it.. I know that box was sitting flat on the shelf when I walked in the storeroom and the went up, then fell to the floor but I didn't tell you about that because I figured you wouldn't believe it...

I didn't tell you about the disembodied head (for lack of better term) I saw floating above my friend at a slumber party because you'd say something about atmosphere and light fragments.. or accuse me of being asleep when I know I wasn't. 

I also didn't tell you about the figure I saw in a stairwell of a house because you'd say it was the light or a shadow... I left all of those incidences out because I figured the ones I mentioned were different enough that you probably couldn't explain them...






I've been woken up by mysterious crackling sounds in the middle of the night, and it wasn't the building.  They come from (gasp!) my own bedroom.  It came from the direction of the wastebasket in which I had crumpled the cellophane from a recently-acquired bunch of DVDs. 

Now, is it more likely that  the cellophane is slowly releasing the potential energy I stored in it by crumpling it, and I just couldn't hear the unwrinkling during the movie, but now that it's quiet and the room's still slowly changing temperature, I can hear it?  Or is it more likely that Slimer has a Rule-34-style fetish for cellophane?  (Rule 34 says that "There is porn of it.  No exceptions".  I was dumb enough to check.  There is porn of it.  That's not ectoplasm.)

Seriously, if you didn't already know what a ghost was and/or believe in them, would you really have invented the idea of "ghost" as the most likely explanation?  Or would you have come up with something more likely?

Once upon a time, we didn't believe in meteors.  Rocks, after all, do not fall from the sky.
  Ghosts, not so much.



Okay now you're just insulting me.. I think there are plenty of people here who (whether they believe or not) know that I am not prone to exaggeration.  >:(

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 01/25/09 at 11:10 pm


I live in the real world I know houses settle but what I am talking about is an unusual occurrence significant enough that they can't be easily explained away... I didn't tell you about the box that jumped off a shelf because you'd say it had simply shifted and fell because of the weight of the other boxes around it.. I know that box was sitting flat on the shelf when I walked in the storeroom and the went up, then fell to the floor but I didn't tell you about that because I figured you wouldn't believe it...


What'd the security camera video show?  If they weren't in areas covered by cameras, fine, but what are the odds that you're working in the only "haunted" store in the continental US?  Why do none of these things ever happen on camera?

(See, the stories that can't be as easily explained are actually the more interesting cases.  I'll shrug and say "I don't believe", but I'll at least file them away in the back of my mind, along with the rains of fish and periwinkles.  And the falling rocks from the sky.  Maybe some of them are forgeries - the work of the Mad Fishmonger - but if enough of these cases show up, if enough of the videos can't be debunked as obvious fakes, special effects, or the work of clever stage magic, there might actually be something going on.  Except that hasn't happened yet.)


I didn't tell you about the disembodied head (for lack of better term) I saw floating above my friend at a slumber party because you'd say something about atmosphere and light fragments.. or accuse me of being asleep when I know I wasn't. 


(The figures in the shadows, I'll go with Paredolia, because we're evolved to pattern-match things to human figures and faces.  The disembodied head, yeah, I'd have gone for the sleep angle on that.  Short of pranksters with digital projectors, I can't think of any physical phenomena for that one. :)


Okay now you're just insulting me.. I think there are plenty of people here who (whether they believe or not) know that I am not prone to exaggeration.  >:(


Quite the contrary.  The point of the meteor story was that rocks do fall from the sky, even when, in 1790, accepted wisdom said they didn't. 

I'm not saying you're exaggerating.  I'm certainly not saying you're lying or crazy.  What I am saying is that evidence isn't about whether we like you as a witness or not, it's about the reproducibility of the results.  Follow where the biggest and longest-lasting streaks of light in the sky are headed, and you'll eventually find rocks with ablated surfaces.  Paranormal "investigators" have been chasing ghosts for centuries, and have either been debunked as frauds, or have found nothing. 

My only beef is that we haven't figured out how to build a machine that lets humans share memories, because I'd like to experience the memories you have of these events and see what I'd have come up with as explanations.  The brain discards a lot of data when it turns experiences into memories, and a lot more data is lost in the translation from memory to text.  (I misinterpreted your post because it lost a lot of data from memory to text.  I'll dispute whether your brain accurately recorded the events, but now that you've fleshed the events out, I'm not disputing your memory of the experiences.)

In our lifetimes, we'll probably solve some of this problem, though -- while we won't have a gadget that can share memories, we probably weill have high-definition video of everything we see and hear on a 24/7 basis.  Even now, for any incident, someone will probably have a camera pointed at it.  Hopefully we'll be the ones who get to choose which segments are interesting enough to upload to the future version of YouTube. 

(I'll venture out on a limb and predict that none of them will ever be visible in the visual or near-infrared spectra to which CCDs are sensitive, which means that the hypothesized ghosts will have to be telepathic, but at least we'll have ideas on the sorts of objects they like to move...  But at least it'll give us skeptics something to talk about :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/25/09 at 11:57 pm


to my knowledge the store didn't have cameras it was 1986 but maybe they did... I don't know I didn't think to ask I was 19 and not yet savvy to how the world works....

If you don't believe then say you don't believe, I can take... I found that whole bit with the cellophane wrapper totally condescending. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 01/26/09 at 1:00 am


to my knowledge the store didn't have cameras it was 1986 but maybe they did... I don't know I didn't think to ask I was 19 and not yet savvy to how the world works....


Rhetorical question - I didn't know the experience was 1986, either.  Back then, they probably didn't have coverage of the entire floor.  Today they would.  So, why no subsequent footage?

To get serious, that's why I miss the Mad Fishmonger.  Now that we know that hail is formed in updrafts in thunderheads, I can believe that similar aerodynamics would apply to periwinkles and crabs, and that if a waterspout drew up a bunch of aquatic life, the storm system could differentiate them when depositing them over land.

But back in Fort's era, the Mad Fishmonger probably was the most rational explanation for the phenomena of rains of frogs-but-no-tadpoles, of periwinkles in one place, and crabs in another.  It just so happened that (upon further investigation), the Fishmonger hypothesis was unsupported by evidence.

But damn, it would have been so cool to imagine some guy wandering the countryside, flinging hundreds of dollars' worth of fish just to confuse the locals - skeptic and believer alike - into believing that some weird semi-biblical plague was afoot... 


If you don't believe then say you don't believe, I can take... I found that whole bit with the cellophane wrapper totally condescending. 


Seriously, not the intent.  Maybe I've just led a really boring life, but that was about the closest I've come to experiencing things that go bump in the night.  I've encountered a few things I couldn't explain at first, but I've always come up with a rational explanation within a few minutes.  To flesh out the story, I'd half-drifted off to sleep when I heard a crackling weirdness, thought it was some kind of electrical discharge, I got the whole adrenaline-surge of panic thinking that was undergoing some sort of catastrophic failure, and I laughed my own posterior off when I realized when the sound was coming from.  Cellophane from the DVD's I'd watched, slowly uncrumpling itself in my wastebasket.  But it scared the hell outa me at the time.  Didn't believe the truth until I stuck my ear to the wastebasket, and it still took me half an hour to get back to sleep :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/26/09 at 7:59 pm

I believe it happened to you, I wish I had been there.  I only have one unexplainable happening and it involved missing car keys that turned up weeks later in a really obvious place (sitting in plain view on top of my purse).  Freaked me right out.  I exhausted all possibilites - well one and that someone was punking me.  Impossible, but it happened.

Don't be offended by others' suggestions for explanations, they are after all suggestions and I am sure they are meant to be friendly - I know my tone is.  :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/26/09 at 8:06 pm


I believe it happened to you, I wish I had been there.  I only have one unexplainable happening and it involved missing car keys that turned up weeks later in a really obvious place (sitting in plain view on top of my purse).  Freaked me right out.  I exhausted all possibilites - well one and that someone was punking me.  Impossible, but it happened.

Don't be offended by others' suggestions for explanations, they are after all suggestions and I am sure they are meant to be friendly - I know my tone is.   :)



Thank you... I hate when that happens...when you're looking for something it shows up in place you know you've searched before... weird...


I know I shouldn't be offended I'm not all that hyper sensitive really but sometimes, the way Foo Bar phrases things just pisses me off... we can't all get along and usually I just ignore avoid him but this time I could not.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/26/09 at 8:15 pm



Thank you... I hate when that happens...when you're looking for something it shows up in place you know you've searched before... weird...



They weren't just in a place I had searched before, here's how it went down:  After severl weeks had gone by I was at the grocery store - I reached into my purse to retrive my wallet and there, draped on top of my wallet were my lost keys. I couldn't speak and was incredulous.  Still am.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/26/09 at 8:16 pm


They weren't just in a place I had searched before, here's how it went down:  After severl weeks had gone by I was at the grocery store - I reached into my purse to retrive my wallet and there, draped on top of my wallet were my lost keys. I couldn't speak and was incredulous.  Still am.


that's crazy...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/26/09 at 8:20 pm


that's crazy...


i know!  My husband went through my purse like a freak show.  The lining wasn't ripped - it was really really bizarre.  i think he thought I was losing my mind so we just let it go.  Well I told every one at first.  People have a tendancy when something weird happens to you to a) not believe you or b) explain it for you because you may not be smart enough to do it on your own.

So I just stopped talking about it - I am still weirded out though - I think about it every so often and wonder......

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/26/09 at 8:34 pm


i know!  My husband went through my purse like a freak show.  The lining wasn't ripped - it was really really bizarre.  i think he thought I was losing my mind so we just let it go.  Well I told every one at first.  People have a tendancy when something weird happens to you to a) not believe you or b) explain it for you because you may not be smart enough to do it on your own.

So I just stopped talking about it - I am still weirded out though - I think about it every so often and wonder......


that is so true!  the truth is i don't tell those stories often for the same reason... 

I figure tho.. because its not one of those I have a friend who or I know someone who heard that... at least my stories are my experiences...

I'll give you one more. when I was a student I worked with campus security. I was assigned to work a fire watch (essentially human smoke detector) for a bldg one night. These are easy shifts you read a little then do a round of each floor.

This particular bldg had 3 floors. labs on the first floor, offices on the second floor, and one giant office on the third. The building was an odd design because the offices and labs were only on side of the building the other side the front of the bldg was glass only.  so it was Glass_Corridor_Offices/Labs

I did a round then sat down to read. Unfortunately I was reading Dean Koontz Intensity which was the wrong book to read on that shift... anyway. I sat in the second floor corridor and heard not pounding or banging but distinct footsteps coming from above me. I had just been up to the third floor and knew that there was no corridor there the whole floor was an open office(no cubicles) I could see the whole room from the door. There was only one way in... and I used it.  I turned on the lights and checked the office it was empty. I knew there was only one way in.  I did another sweep of the bldg. and settled down on the second floor corridor by the way a sweep was  (Check level one, then level two, then level three, then go sit down) a few minutes after checking the office I heard the steps above me- again it sounded like someone running across the room- of course there was no one there.... that was creepy...

I heard it two more times that night...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 01/27/09 at 12:20 pm


that is so true!  the truth is i don't tell those stories often for the same reason... 

I figure tho.. because its not one of those I have a friend who or I know someone who heard that... at least my stories are my experiences...

I'll give you one more. when I was a student I worked with campus security. I was assigned to work a fire watch (essentially human smoke detector) for a bldg one night. These are easy shifts you read a little then do a round of each floor.

This particular bldg had 3 floors. labs on the first floor, offices on the second floor, and one giant office on the third. The building was an odd design because the offices and labs were only on side of the building the other side the front of the bldg was glass only.  so it was Glass_Corridor_Offices/Labs

I did a round then sat down to read. Unfortunately I was reading Dean Koontz Intensity which was the wrong book to read on that shift... anyway. I sat in the second floor corridor and heard not pounding or banging but distinct footsteps coming from above me. I had just been up to the third floor and knew that there was no corridor there the whole floor was an open office(no cubicles) I could see the whole room from the door. There was only one way in... and I used it.  I turned on the lights and checked the office it was empty. I knew there was only one way in.  I did another sweep of the bldg. and settled down on the second floor corridor by the way a sweep was  (Check level one, then level two, then level three, then go sit down) a few minutes after checking the office I heard the steps above me- again it sounded like someone running across the room- of course there was no one there.... that was creepy...

I heard it two more times that night...




That is creepy!  My aunt lives in a really old farmhouse, it is huge appr.  4000 square feet.  The acoustics in that house give me the utter creeps.  For example, going up to the attic (7' ceiling runs the length of the house) the stairs don't settle back until you are stepping on one 5 or so up, and it really feels and sounds like someone is following you.  In the spring when it is warm during the day and cold at night, the sounds the house makes at night truly make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.  My aunt doesn't belive in the supernatural and so is comfortable living there.  Me?  I was really hoping to see a ghost.  No such luck and so I remain.....  Skeptical.  I really really wnat to see one.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 01/27/09 at 1:56 pm


That is creepy!  My aunt lives in a really old farmhouse, it is huge appr.  4000 square feet.  The acoustics in that house give me the utter creeps.  For example, going up to the attic (7' ceiling runs the length of the house) the stairs don't settle back until you are stepping on one 5 or so up, and it really feels and sounds like someone is following you.  In the spring when it is warm during the day and cold at night, the sounds the house makes at night truly make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.  My aunt doesn't belive in the supernatural and so is comfortable living there.  Me?  I was really hoping to see a ghost.  No such luck and so I remain.....  Skeptical.  I really really wnat to see one.


I watch too many slasher films so I could NEVER live in an old farmhouse  ;D


Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Haman on 02/01/09 at 3:58 pm

It's irrational to believe in the supernatural.

Yes, it is. Belief  in the supernatural serves little purpose other than mere entertainment or giving meaning to a mediocre life.

However, I tend to think that disbelief  is also a form of belief. I'm inclined to think that automatic, "realistic" disregard of the supernatural seems as futile as blind faith in fairies and werewolfs.

I may be wrong but it appears to me that a truly scientific mindset requires suspension of disbelief.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Reynolds1863 on 02/01/09 at 5:24 pm


Yes, it is. Belief  in the supernatural serves little purpose other than mere entertainment or giving meaning to a mediocre life.

However, I tend to think that disbelief  is also a form of belief. I'm inclined to think that automatic, "realistic" disregard of the supernatural seems as futile as blind faith in fairies and werewolfs.

I may be wrong but it appears to me that a truly scientific mindset requires suspension of disbelief.


Interesting, do you liken this to the belief in God?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 02/01/09 at 5:55 pm


Interesting, do you liken this to the belief in God?


go get him girl.... O0

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Gis on 02/03/09 at 6:19 am


that is so true!  the truth is i don't tell those stories often for the same reason... 

I figure tho.. because its not one of those I have a friend who or I know someone who heard that... at least my stories are my experiences...

I'll give you one more. when I was a student I worked with campus security. I was assigned to work a fire watch (essentially human smoke detector) for a bldg one night. These are easy shifts you read a little then do a round of each floor.

This particular bldg had 3 floors. labs on the first floor, offices on the second floor, and one giant office on the third. The building was an odd design because the offices and labs were only on side of the building the other side the front of the bldg was glass only.  so it was Glass_Corridor_Offices/Labs

I did a round then sat down to read. Unfortunately I was reading Dean Koontz Intensity which was the wrong book to read on that shift... anyway. I sat in the second floor corridor and heard not pounding or banging but distinct footsteps coming from above me. I had just been up to the third floor and knew that there was no corridor there the whole floor was an open office(no cubicles) I could see the whole room from the door. There was only one way in... and I used it.  I turned on the lights and checked the office it was empty. I knew there was only one way in.  I did another sweep of the bldg. and settled down on the second floor corridor by the way a sweep was  (Check level one, then level two, then level three, then go sit down) a few minutes after checking the office I heard the steps above me- again it sounded like someone running across the room- of course there was no one there.... that was creepy...

I heard it two more times that night...


Very similar to one of my ghost experiences. I was staying at my friend's house for the night. Big, very old manor house with a main front staircase and a back servants staircase. I was up earlier than her and went down into the kitchen to make a drink. It is at the back of the house. The kitchen is off the hallway that leads to the back door of the house.The door to the kitchen is in the middle of the hallway wall, so if you stand in the doorway you are looking straight at the servants staircase which leads down to the back door.So I heard someone walking across the wooden floor at the top of the stairs and start to walk down them. Two of my friend's brothers had rooms at the top of those stairs so I stuck my head out of the kitchen door and said 'tea or coffee?' The footsteps carried on coming down the stairs right infront of me and on reaching the bottom walked along the hall right past me. Of course there was nobody there, just the sound of the footsteps. Scared me sh*tless I can say.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ashkicksass on 02/03/09 at 10:29 am

Who cares if people believe you?  You know what you saw. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 02/03/09 at 5:09 pm


Interesting, do you liken this to the belief in God?


To believe in God is to believe in the supernatural, and fear it.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 02/03/09 at 6:02 pm


Very similar to one of my ghost experiences. I was staying at my friend's house for the night. Big, very old manor house with a main front staircase and a back servants staircase. I was up earlier than her and went down into the kitchen to make a drink. It is at the back of the house. The kitchen is off the hallway that leads to the back door of the house.The door to the kitchen is in the middle of the hallway wall, so if you stand in the doorway you are looking straight at the servants staircase which leads down to the back door.So I heard someone walking across the wooden floor at the top of the stairs and start to walk down them. Two of my friend's brothers had rooms at the top of those stairs so I stuck my head out of the kitchen door and said 'tea or coffee?' The footsteps carried on coming down the stairs right infront of me and on reaching the bottom walked along the hall right past me. Of course there was nobody there, just the sound of the footsteps. Scared me sh*tless I can say.


totally creepy!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 02/03/09 at 6:03 pm


Who cares if people believe you?  You know what you saw. 


I'm cool with people not believing me... I just didn't the condescending tone I reading in the post...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Reynolds1863 on 02/04/09 at 12:06 pm


To believe in God is to believe in the supernatural, and fear it.


Well yes, it all has to do with the concept of duelism.  The body and spirit are separate entities.  Then of course there's the whole heaven and hell thing.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Haman on 02/22/09 at 4:11 pm


Interesting, do you liken this to the belief in God?


If I understand you well, you're asking me whether I apply the same principle concerning God, aren't you?

That is difficult to answer.

The short answer would be yes.

The long answer would be too complex for me to put in words. Anyway, I would say that I place my Self as God, therefore in order to find God I just have to place myself in front of a mirror. I admit it sounds disgustingly pretentious, but that is the path I've chosen to follow the best I can.

On the other hand, if we discuss the possibility of a Creative Principle, origin and source of all that is, and we call it God, that seems to me a very plausible possibility to explore -and I'm in the path of exploring it, although I don't know if I will ever find the answer.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: rhu_barb on 06/04/09 at 5:11 pm

Ack. I just posted this- but I have to say it again- I saw jimi hendrix on the 14 bus line in San Francisco. So random.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Reynolds1863 on 06/04/09 at 6:30 pm


Ack. I just posted this- but I have to say it again- I saw jimi hendrix on the 14 bus line in San Francisco. So random.


Or some dude that looked like him.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: lola669 on 12/08/09 at 9:50 am

I believe in lots of stuff, my husband thinks I'm nuts.  ;D ;D

I think that ghosts exist, Bigfoot may exist and the universe is so huge that there is probably life somewhere else. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: topforty on 03/07/10 at 11:01 pm

In the early 90's I took care of this old two story farmhouse.  There was no way I could refuse the offer, the rent was free and all the landlord asked of me was to tend to the yard and do the repairs around the place when needed.  I couldn't figure out why this offer wasn't taken up by anybody else, I asked around and rumor was it the place was haunted and he had trouble keeping people there because "incidents" would occur, a coffee cup and saucer appearing on the table, lights coming on with no reason behind it and pets frightened for no apparent reason.

That didn't keep me from saying what the heck, I'll move in because the price was right.  I'm opened minded to things like this if they happen, cool, I get to experience another of life's experience.  All my friends thought I was nuts for staying there by myself and rarely did they visit at night.

The years went by without any incident, none that I at least noticed, no dishes appearing where they shouldn't be, my dog didn't seem upset about many things except the occasional visit by raccoons and aside from the plumbing troubles, things went smooth.

One summer night about five years into my stay, my dog started howling, not barking, but howling which he had never done before.  This was happening a little after midnight and I was angry as I had to get up in about 5 hours to get an early start on my day.  My bedroom was upstairs in this house, I got out of bed and looked out a window to see what might be upsetting my dog, I couldn't see anything except him sitting on my picnic table and shouted down to him to keep quiet.  Well my dog continued with his howling and I was just about to get dressed and go out to see what was going on with him when I heard this creak on the steps.  The third step always creaked when you stepped on it and it sounded like somebody was coming up the stairs.  Well that got my heart pumping, as I was waiting for an unexpected visitor to appear at the top of my steps.  I grabbed the baseball bat I kept by my bed and sat at the edge of the mattress, waiting, but nobody appeared. It was several minutes I just sat there, then I realized my dog quit howling.

The rest of the night I was in a restless sleep, but at least my dog had quit howling and there were no more creaks on the steps.

When I was in town the next morning, I stopped at the C-Store for my usual orange juice and brownie and there I found out my old landlord passed away in his sleep the night before, it was figured he passed right around midnight.  That sent a chill down my spine.  I then told the cashier the story of my dog acting up and the step creaking, I don't think she believed me, and I jokingly asked her if she was looking for a place to stay as I was thinking of moving. 

I did stay another year and a half on the place without so much as another incident like that.  Reason I left, the surviving relatives (the two children who lived out of state) decided to sell all the property and new owners wanted some outrageous rent for me staying there.  The place did burn down a few months after I moved out, arson.  The place was vacant and some kids, drunk and/or high, were having a seance' in the house and thought it would be "funny" to burn the place down after they were finished to see if they could see spirits leaving the place. 

Anyway that's my experience with the paranormal. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: fredrickthe94guy on 06/04/10 at 4:34 am

i believe in ghosts... alien... spirits etc... but bigfoot???? :o :o ??? ???

LOL  ;D ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: 80sfan on 08/15/10 at 2:51 am

Yes, but what the heck are the doing still doing on earth?  ???

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ryan112390 on 09/11/10 at 12:47 pm

I'd say I sort of do.
One night about 2 years ago, I was sick with a fever and it was very late at night--About 4 Am. My mother was asleep, my father was laying in bed.
I had three dogs at the time; two were locked in their crate and one was in the bed with me.
I was watching TV. Suddenly, I began to hear footsteps walking from my kitchen through my living room, stopping right outside my door. As the footsteps drew the door, my dog's head and ears stood straight up and he stared at the door intently for about a minute or two.

About five minutes later, my dad came in and asked me why I was walking back to and from the kitchen and living room. He didn't believe me when I said it wasn't me, because he had heard footsteps walking from the kitchen to the living room as well. My mom was very much asleep.

I always get eerie feelings in this place at night, and I've lived in quite a few houses and never felt that way. Even my dad, who has lived in upwards of 20 places, says he feels 'vibes' here he never felt in any other house.

About a year after that, my nephew was staying over--He's 16 now. He didn't hear the story I've just related. He was laying on a blow up bed on the floor when suddenly he sat up, wide eyed. I said, "Whats wrong?" and he said he "felt" something "sit next to him" on the bed, and felt it's ''hand'' touch his face.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Hud on 10/04/10 at 10:50 am

I don't think absolute science, in the sense of what has been proven to our five senses so far, is all there is to reality. If all the spectrum of known  waves in the universe stretched for roughly 2000 miles, light waves visible to our eyes would take up only an inch of the spectrum. How would things appear if we could perceive some of these other waves without special instruments?
I'm old enough to realize that one shouldn't put a cap on only what we've been taught so I don't rule out spirits existing and astronomer physicists contemplate theoretical 4th dimensions and time travel, so...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: chiefyamick on 02/27/11 at 9:04 pm

Definitely....I've had numerous personal experiences in my life. The retirement facility that I work at is registered as one of the most notable haunted locations in my state. Really makes it fun to work there, occasionally whatever/whomever is hanging around there will interact with you.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: youngerderek on 04/11/11 at 10:28 am

of course. it's stupid not to believe in anything paranormal. odds are at least one of them is true.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 05/11/11 at 9:41 pm


of course. it's stupid not to believe in anything paranormal. odds are at least one of them is true.


No disrespect intended but I think it could be stupid to be believe in the paranormal, having there been no scientific proof, and in fact all reported incidents are easily explained scientifically or psychologically.  And what odds do you speak of? 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 05/13/11 at 9:59 pm


No disrespect intended but I think it could be stupid to be believe in the paranormal, having there been no scientific proof, and in fact all reported incidents are easily explained scientifically or psychologically.  And what odds do you speak of? 



If you could scientifically prove ghosts exist, then ghosts would be normal, not paranormal, right?

Question.  Has science answered every question about every phenomenon mankind has witnessed?

Of course not.

Therein lies the paranormal or, simply, the unexplained.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 05/13/11 at 10:12 pm


If you could scientifically prove ghosts exist, then ghosts would be normal, not paranormal, right?

Question.  Has science answered every question about every phenomenon mankind has witnessed?

Of course not.

Therein lies the paranormal or, simply, the unexplained.



I think the point I was trying to make is that if science can't explain it then it probably didn't actually happen.  Mankind has proven to be an unreliable witness.....

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: 80sfan on 05/13/11 at 10:54 pm


I think the point I was trying to make is that if science can't explain it then it probably didn't actually happen.  Mankind has proven to be an unreliable witness.....


Well, us humans aren't actually the most objective folks!  ;D So I can see what you mean.

But I really do believe (objectively) that there are higher dimensions and spirits, UFOs, and other stuff, but we just don't have the intellect to reach them yet or never will reach!

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: barefootrobin on 05/13/11 at 11:00 pm


Well, us humans aren't actually the most objective folks!  ;D So I can see what you mean.

But I really do believe (objectively) that there are higher dimensions and spirits, UFOs, and other stuff, but we just don't have the intellect to reach them yet or never will reach!




I think it is more likely that we are not alone in the universe (or others) than that there may be ghosts.  One theory seems so much more logical than the other!  :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: hot_wax on 01/29/12 at 10:03 pm

It's beyond believing when you "know" for sure that sprites, as in Angels, exsist from personal experiences I've had involving religious interventions.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: tv on 10/21/12 at 9:51 pm

I was watching "Celebrity Ghost Stories" last night and it made me think about something.

I was coming home from my job and I unlock the front door in 2008 I think. You can see the downstairs from the front door. There was a girl walking downstairs(brunette maybe 17-20 years old.) I was like hello and nobody answered. I was scared because there was nobody supposed to be in the house. My mom came home an hour and a half later and she didn't see anything I am 100% sure. About a year later a psychic tells me there is a girl watching you. I figure it was my Dad's aunt but last night I was like that had to be the brunette. Last year about August my Dad told me I was screaming in my sleep like "get out", "get out". I figure oh a bad dream but maybe the brunette was there. My dad had never said that I scream in my sleep before or after. My father told me like a year or 9 months ago that there was a foreign exchange student that came to live with us when I was young. I don't remember her at all from when I was young but maybe it could have been her. Maybe she was from Europe because I got a good look of her from the side in 2008. She didn't look Asian or Hispanic to me. She looked like a plainer version of actress Alyssa Milano to me.

When I first started sleeping downstairs I would always hear noises above like rats in the attic and it sounded like somebody falling to the floor above. I felt like somebody was watching me the first year or two when I was sleeping down there too. 

Also Last Night or early this morning I woke up in my bed. I didn't even remember walking to my bed. I had my clothes on and not pajamas. That was weird because I don't sleepwalk.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 10/21/12 at 10:39 pm

^sounds like the Paranormal Activity movies.... Only creepier.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/24/12 at 12:01 am

The biggest reason that I don't believe in Bigfoot is that no one has ever found a body.

I mean...they have to be mortal, right?

People find bodies every day.  Ancient bodies, recent bodies - you name it.  So why hasn't anyone ever found a skeleton of Bigfoot?  I can't fathom that there wouldn't be one somewhere.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 10/24/12 at 10:50 am


The biggest reason that I don't believe in Bigfoot is that no one has ever found a body.

I mean...they have to be mortal, right?

People find bodies every day.  Ancient bodies, recent bodies - you name it.  So why hasn't anyone ever found a skeleton of Bigfoot?  I can't fathom that there wouldn't be one somewhere.


Maybe the other bigfoots (bigfeet?) shave their dead comrades ands that's where most of those Unidentified bodies they always find in the woods come from.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/24/12 at 11:36 am


Maybe the other bigfoots (bigfeet?) shave their dead comrades ands that's where most of those Unidentified bodies they always find in the woods come from.


But it would still be a huge body, don't you think?  It wouldn't be exactly the same as a human body if they are a separate species.  And if there are enough bigfeet out there to shave each other (lol) then we would have seen them.  AND they would have had to buy a razor somewhere, wouldn't they?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: snozberries on 10/24/12 at 11:57 am


But it would still be a huge body, don't you think?  It wouldn't be exactly the same as a human body if they are a separate species.  And if there are enough bigfeet out there to shave each other (lol) then we would have seen them.  AND they would have had to buy a razor somewhere, wouldn't they?


I think you've put more thought into it than ever intended  ;D

I think they get their girth & height from the hair. Underneath they are basically human sized and they invented razors so they have a huge stockpile of them.

And people have seen em haven't you seen all those realistic pics on the national enquirer?  ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ashkicksass on 10/24/12 at 12:02 pm


I think you've put more thought into it than ever intended  ;D

I think they get their girth & height from the hair. Underneath they are basically human sized and they invented razors so they have a huge stockpile of them.

And people have seen em haven't you seen all those realistic pics on the national enquirer?  ;D


I'm deep.

;) ;D

I have thought about it though - obviously.  And the logical conclusion that I have come to is that if Bigfoot exists or existed, we would have found a body.  At least one.  How many dinosaurs have we found?  How many other freaky ancient animals have they found?  But no bigfoot?  Ever?  Anywhere? 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: KatanaChick on 02/26/14 at 2:26 am

I went to a school that was. I don't know why, but I think it was just different students who died. Different rooms seemed to attract it more than others. My roommate swore she was locked in the bathroom when the door locked from outside, I'd been touched once, and something sat next to me in bed another time. The door opened with no one there I was aware of. The hall was empty and nobody came in, and there was no sound of footsteps of anyone walking away or a neighbors door shutting. The radio came on by itself too. Other students have seen things, one said she saw a reflection of feet in the mirror. Definately not stuff that happens at home, it was weird, but not a big deal.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Tam on 04/06/14 at 7:42 pm


I'm deep.

;) ;D

I have thought about it though - obviously.  And the logical conclusion that I have come to is that if Bigfoot exists or existed, we would have found a body.  At least one.  How many dinosaurs have we found?  How many other freaky ancient animals have they found?  But no bigfoot?  Ever?  Anywhere?



Bigfoot is a cannibal.
When one dies, the others eat it.
Thus why there has never been a body.






;D ;)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Dagwood on 04/06/14 at 7:45 pm



Bigfoot is a cannibal.
When one dies, the others eat it.
Thus why there has never been a body.






;D ;)


Plausible. ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ripley on 04/11/14 at 11:10 pm



Bigfoot is a cannibal.
When one dies, the others eat it.
Thus why there has never been a body.






;D ;)

That's a great explanation!  ;D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Philip Eno on 04/12/14 at 7:48 am



Bigfoot is a cannibal.
When one dies, the others eat it.
Thus why there has never been a body.






;D ;)
Is it the same for the yetis in the Himalayas?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: loki 13 on 04/12/14 at 8:22 pm



Bigfoot is a cannibal.
When one dies, the others eat it.
Thus why there has never been a body.






;D ;)


What do they do with the bones?

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Ripley on 04/12/14 at 9:02 pm


What do they do with the bones?

They use them to play fetch with Nessie  :D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Philip Eno on 04/24/14 at 2:52 am


They use them to play fetch with Nessie  :D
From the Daily Telegraph:

Has Apple maps found the Loch Ness Monster?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02887/loch-ness_2887190b.jpg

Since its inception in the sixth century, the legend of the Loch Ness Monster has endured unreliable sightings, doctored photos and faked footprints, but a mysterious satellite image has given fresh hope to believers of the elusive Scottish sea creature.

The image, taken by an Apple map satellite, depicts a shadowy form of around 100 feet in length with something akin to flippers in the water of the Loch Ness.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 04/25/14 at 12:12 am


From the Daily Telegraph:

Has Apple maps found the Loch Ness Monster?


http://i.imgur.com/ZyYH58j.gif

NOPE.  It's a boat wake.  We might even know which boat it is, but it's just a boat.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the unextraordinary evidence strongly suggests it's a boat, not Nessie. 

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Philip Eno on 04/25/14 at 2:39 am


http://i.imgur.com/ZyYH58j.gif

NOPE.  It's a boat wake.  We might even know which boat it is, but it's just a boat.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the unextraordinary evidence strongly suggests it's a boat, not Nessie. 
It looks a lot clearer now

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MarkMc1990 on 04/27/14 at 3:56 pm

I'm ALL ABOUT the paranormal. Sometimes I spend hours on various forums and blogs reading about other people's experiences. I think it's rather foolish to completely reject the notion that there at least could be more to the universe than science is currently able to explain. Sure there are tons of hoaxes and attention-seekers out there, but that doesn't prove that they're ALL hoaxes. I haven't had any experiences myself, but if you're not a fan of those "friend of a friend" stories than feel free to skip the rest of this post!

My friend's mom had all sorts of ghost stories...she was quite an extraordinary lady and she lived in many places during her life, one of which was Hawaii. She once told me she stayed a friend's house or perhaps some sort of B&B (don't remember exactly). Anyway the room she was sleeping in had a bunch of portraits on the walls. When she woke up in the morning, all the portraits had been removed from the walls and were on the floor lined up against her bed from all sides. :o She said the door was locked too. My friend's mom unfortunately passed away from cancer in December 2012, but my friend would tell me about strange things that would happen in the house after her mom's death before she moved out last summer.

When my mom's friend's dad passed away, her family came home from the hospital to find that all the clocks in the house were mysteriously stopped on the time of his death...this story has always sent chills up my spine.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 04/27/14 at 8:49 pm

I think it's rather foolish to completely reject the notion that there at least could be more to the universe than science is currently able to explain.


Well, wait a minute, so do I.  There are lots of things science is not currently able to explain.  The process by which we explain those things (and in turn find even more confusing and mysterious things to question is called "science.")

http://i.imgur.com/QRHENkz.jpg

Science is a two-way street, though.  You have to be able to repeatably produce examples of the things you can't explain before someone can come up with an idea that may or may not explain it, and then further test those ideas through experiment.  It's more likely that someone forgot to lock the door, or did some cleanup and forgot they did it, or was just fooling around, or that the storyteller was just having some fun with you (people trolled each other before the Internet, you know) than it is that human beings continue to manifest themselves in the physical world after they die.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MarkMc1990 on 04/27/14 at 11:09 pm

Of course there are many possible explanations for why these things happened. Ghosts *COULD* be one of them :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 04/27/14 at 11:41 pm


Of course there are many possible explanations for why these things happened. Ghosts *COULD* be one of them :)


So could an invisible blue unicorn under my bed, but until I can come up with evidence, I'm going with my imagination as the more likely explanation :)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/27/14 at 11:51 pm


So could an invisible blue unicorn under my bed, but until I can come up with evidence, I'm going with my imagination as the more likely explanation :)


I remember one of those ghost-finder shows, they were in this house that was supposed to be ghost-talk central.  All these witness claimed they could hear voices ghost voices talking through the walls and so forth.  The ghost-hunting team set up all this state of the art super-sensitive recording equipment for for 24 hours and listened to it all in real time with sonograms and whatnot.  At hour 13.5 they heard something that sounded like "So..."

So.  That's a fountain of conversation man.  That's a geyser.  Like, whoa, daddy, stand back!
:D

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 04/29/14 at 8:23 pm


I remember one of those ghost-finder shows, they were in this house that was supposed to be ghost-talk central.


I wouldn't mind those shows half as much if they were on "The New Age Woo Channel", or "The Spiritualism Channel", or "The Occult Channel" or whatever.  It's when they're on The "Learning" Channel or the "Discovery" channel that I get peeved.  Don't even get me started on the "History" channel which also went full pseudoscience...

http://i.imgur.com/zx7GE.png

Next on the "History" channel, the shocking theory that will BLOW YOUR MIND: noted paranormal researcher comes up with theory that humans built the pyramids using nothing more than engineering, brainpower, and a few thousand slaves...  I'm not saying it was humans, but...

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 04/29/14 at 9:42 pm


I wouldn't mind those shows half as much if they were on "The New Age Woo Channel", or "The Spiritualism Channel", or "The Occult Channel" or whatever.  It's when they're on The "Learning" Channel or the "Discovery" channel that I get peeved.  Don't even get me started on the "History" channel which also went full pseudoscience...


What's the problem?  You're free to "learn" crap, or "discover" crap!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KjuH8zwfXZA/UlnZOU1YC5I/AAAAAAAAJm0/ZrzIFmNgUXw/s1600/A+History+Channel+Thanksgiving+(12).jpg



Next on the "History" channel, the shocking theory that will BLOW YOUR MIND: noted paranormal researcher comes up with theory that humans built the pyramids using nothing more than engineering, brainpower, and a few thousand slaves...  I'm not saying it was humans, but...


We don't give ancient peoples enough credit.  Maybe...just maybe...the ancient Egyptians knew how to build stuff in ways we don't understand today.  We might never know for sure.  Here's a PC term: Eurocentric.  When our European ancestors emerged from the thousand years between late antiquity and the early modern era, they lagged behind other cultures (such as India, China, Japan, Muslim culture) in science and engineering.  Europe was a frikkin' backwater until the sixteenth century.  Yet, even when I was growing up, we were taught we were the first and the smartest...the Egyptians and the Chinese must have had help from space aliens 'cos we kicked their asses at war!
::)

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Jessica on 04/30/14 at 10:28 pm


I wouldn't mind those shows half as much if they were on "The New Age Woo Channel", or "The Spiritualism Channel", or "The Occult Channel" or whatever.  It's when they're on The "Learning" Channel or the "Discovery" channel that I get peeved.  Don't even get me started on the "History" channel which also went full pseudoscience...

http://i.imgur.com/zx7GE.png

Next on the "History" channel, the shocking theory that will BLOW YOUR MIND: noted paranormal researcher comes up with theory that humans built the pyramids using nothing more than engineering, brainpower, and a few thousand slaves...  I'm not saying it was humans, but...





http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HMJp-6Q6YEc/UEZn7NXGyVI/AAAAAAAAClY/Q109Zd-eetA/s1600/bless-this-post.gif

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Jessica on 04/30/14 at 10:29 pm

And I do/don't believe.  I don't believe most of the time, but when you sit at work while doing a night event and discuss how old and possibly haunted the building is, then get left alone by yourself for three hours.......yeah. :P

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: Foo Bar on 04/30/14 at 11:13 pm


And I do/don't believe.  I don't believe most of the time, but when you sit at work while doing a night event and discuss how old and possibly haunted the building is, then get left alone by yourself for three hours.......yeah. :P


And there's nothing wrong with that either.  Ghost stories are part of our culture, and every human civilization/culture since we developed language.  It's fun to be scared of stuff.  It's why we jump on roller coasters and enjoy haunted houses.  But when it's just you and the creaking of the floorboards as the building cools off at night, well, I'm not saying I'm scared of humans, but... humans.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: 80sfan on 05/01/14 at 12:17 am

I'll believe in ghosts until they can prove that ghosts don't exists.

Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?

Written By: annimal on 01/09/16 at 7:22 pm

I don't know but they cant be disproved.

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