inthe00s
The Pop Culture Information Society...

These are the messages that have been posted on inthe00s over the past few years.

Check out the messageboard archive index for a complete list of topic areas.

This archive is periodically refreshed with the latest messages from the current messageboard.




Check for new replies or respond here...

Subject: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/22/15 at 12:37 am

What eras in music history can you think of where Top 40 was mostly dominated by bubblegum/teen pop?  Here are the eras I can think of and the artists that were popular.

Current era (2012-Present)
Artists: Ariana Grande, Becky G, One Direction, Selena Gomez, Taylor Swift

Y2K era (1998-2002)
Artists: NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera

Late 1960s (1965-1969)
Artists: 1910 Fruitgum Company, The Archies, The Carpenters

Late 1950s (1955-1960)
Artists: Elvis, Pat Boone, Everly Brothers, The Chordettes

Thoughts?


Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 09/22/15 at 12:56 am


What eras in music history can you think of where Top 40 was mostly dominated by bubblegum/teen pop?  Here are the eras I can think of and the artists that were popular.

Current era (2013-Present)
Artists: Ariana Grande, Becky G, One Direction, Selena Gomez, Taylor Swift



I'd change it to 2012. Taylor Swift was already going into a tweenier direction that year and same with Selena Gomez (she was better with The Scene). One Direction exploded that year in the US, after hitting it big in EU the previous year. Some big one hit tracks such as "Call Me Maybe" and "Glad You Came". Speaking of which, no one plays those songs anymore!!

Demi Lovato had continued success in '12 with her album released in '11. Surprisingly, Unbroken wasn't teen pop. It was more mature and had a broader appeal. I was indifferent to the music back when it was new, but now I appreciate it more.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/22/15 at 1:48 am


I'd change it to 2012. Taylor Swift was already going into a tweenier direction that year and same with Selena Gomez (she was better with The Scene). One Direction exploded that year in the US, after hitting it big in EU the previous year. Some big one hit tracks such as "Call Me Maybe" and "Glad You Came". Speaking of which, no one plays those songs anymore!!


True.  I changed it to 2012.  I initially debated on whether or not to include it because 2012 still had a greater variety and wasn't completely dominated by teen pop yet, especially during the first half of the year.  However, Call Me Maybe was big that year and that was kind of the song that started it all.  I also think that was One Directions biggest year. 

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Philip Eno on 09/22/15 at 3:13 am

What about The Beatles, they were liked by many a teenager?

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 09/22/15 at 6:05 am

Imo, these are the main periods of popularity for bubblegum pop:

1956-1959 (Elvis Presley, The Chordettes, Danny & the Juniors)
1988-1991 (New Kids on the Block, Vanilla Ice, Milli Vanilli, Tiffany, Debbie Gibson)
1997-2001 (Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, *NSYNC, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Savage Garden)
2012-Present (New Taylor Swift, Carly Rae Jepsen, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, One Direction, Meghan Trainor)

Periods with significant teen/bubblegum pop acts, but which weren't dominated by them:

1984-1986 (Wham! and New Edition)
2007-2010 (Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber)

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/22/15 at 8:59 am


What about The Beatles, they were liked by many a teenager?


True, but I believe they had wider appeal as well, especially their later albums, so I wouldn't classify them as bubblegum.  Big difference between them and a group like 1910 Fruitgum Company.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/22/15 at 9:07 am


True.  I changed it to 2012.  I initially debated on whether or not to include it because 2012 still had a greater variety and wasn't completely dominated by teen pop yet, especially during the first half of the year.  However, Call Me Maybe was big that year and that was kind of the song that started it all.  I also think that was One Directions biggest year.


IDK about that...

For instance the Backstreet Boys & The Spice Girls rose to popularity in 1996, but I don't think most people would regard 96' as part of the Y2K era. Especially since you still had a lot of mature Grunge, Post Grunge, Gangsta Rap & Hip Hop music at the time.

I think the rise in Taylor Swift & One Direction in 2012 is similar. They rose in popularity, but you still had a lot of mature electropop styles throughout that year. I'll list you the Top 100 of Billboard 2012, and you could tell me if the songs of that list sounded more Teen Popish or Electro Popish

http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2012/hot-100-songs

Now here is the 2013 Billboard List

http://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2013/hot-100-songs

So 2012 was the breakthrough year of artists like 1D & Demi Lovato, but it was 2013 that solidified their place in music

Another similarity I noticed is that 1996 was the year of the Macarena while 2012 was the year of Gangnam Style.

1996 was the tail end of the Gen X era because of the massive popularity of the Macarena and thats around when guys like BSB started to get big.
While 2012 was the tail end of the Gen Y era because of the massive popularity of Gangnam Style and and thats around when guys like 1D started to get big.

You also cannot deny that Macarena started the whole dance pop fad of the late 90's which is in of it self is Gen Y culture while Gangnam Style solidified the powerful tool that is the internet and viral videos, which is Gen Z culture.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: yelimsexa on 09/22/15 at 9:27 am


What eras in music history can you think of where Top 40 was mostly dominated by bubblegum/teen pop?  Here are the eras I can think of and the artists that were popular.

Current era (2012-Present)
Artists: Ariana Grande, Becky G, One Direction, Selena Gomez, Taylor Swift

Y2K era (1998-2002)
Artists: NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera

Late 1960s (1965-1969)
Artists: 1910 Fruitgum Company, The Archies, The Carpenters

Late 1950s (1955-1960)
Artists: Elvis, Pat Boone, Everly Brothers, The Chordettes

Thoughts?


I'd expand the late 1950s to include the early 1960s. The Chordettes are more like the Andrews Sisters than the Phil Spector/early Motown Girl Groups (think Mr. Sandman). You had Lesley Gore in 1963, who isn't much different than Connie Francis in 1958. Don't forget all of the "Bobby Crooners". I wouldn't really say that the era began until 1957, since 1955 and even 1956 were still adult-dominated, and many of the early rockers were underground, in groups, or much more raw in talent (Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent).

The late '60s Bubblegum wasn't as dominant as it was still overshadowed by lots of mature rockers/soul artists, and IMO wasn't even as big as the late '80s-very early '90s wave (don't forget Martika, Taylor Dayne, Samantha Fox,
The Indigo Girls, Sweet Sensation, Fine Young Cannibals, Young MC, and Tone Loc). Even Jon Bon Jovi was seen as a "Teen Idol" around this time despite being well into his '20s.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/22/15 at 11:05 am


You also cannot deny that Macarena started the whole dance pop fad of the late 90's which is in of it self is Gen Y culture while Gangnam Style solidified the powerful tool that is the internet and viral videos, which is Gen Z culture.


Good point.  Gangnam Style was the predecessor to the Harlem Shake and the Fox song, all '10s staples.  I would say even Gangnam Style was wider in its appeal than anything by Ariana Grande or 1D so it wasn't specifically a GenZ fad. 

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 09/22/15 at 11:54 am


IDK about that...

For instance the Backstreet Boys & The Spice Girls rose to popularity in 1996, but I don't think most people would regard 96' as part of the Y2K era. Especially since you still had a lot of mature Grunge, Post Grunge, Gangsta Rap & Hip Hop music at the time.

1996 was the tail end of the Gen X era because of the massive popularity of the Macarena and thats around when guys like BSB started to get big.


Take note that the rise of the Backstreet Boys and The Spice Girls was in Europe and Oceania. They didn't hit it big until the middle of 1997 in North America. Popular music in North America and Canada was entire genre-based in 1996 and pure pop music wasn't in yet until the following year. Americans didn't even know who the Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls were and didn't receive any press coverage whatsoever until they actually released their music there in 1997. Basically, '90s teen pop didn't even exist yet in American people's minds.

Actually, Backstreet Boys was rising in 1995 with their single "We've Got it Going On" which was big in EU but not NA. One Direction were rising in 2010 on the UK X-Factor. They hit it big in Europe in 2011, and made it in America in 2012. It's too late to say 2013 was when they solidified their place in American pop culture because they were HUGE in 2012. "What Makes You Beautiful" was everywhere.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 09/22/15 at 11:55 am


Good point.  Gangnam Style was the predecessor to the Harlem Shake and the Fox song, all '10s staples.  I would say even Gangnam Style was wider in its appeal than anything by Ariana Grande or 1D so it wasn't specifically a GenZ fad.


They're not staples because no one does them anymore and they're all pretty much forgotten.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/22/15 at 12:07 pm


They're not staples because no one does them anymore and they're all pretty much forgotten.


Well...sort of.  The Macarena was huge in the summer of 1996 but pretty much forgotten by the summer of 1997.  However, it's commonly included in discussions regarding '90s nostalgia.  I think fads like Gangnam Style and the Fox will be the same way for the '10s.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/22/15 at 1:59 pm


Take note that the rise of the Backstreet Boys and The Spice Girls was in Europe and Oceania. They didn't hit it big until the middle of 1997 in North America. Popular music in North America and Canada was entire genre-based in 1996 and pure pop music wasn't in yet until the following year. Americans didn't even know who the Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls were and didn't receive any press coverage whatsoever until they actually released their music there in 1997. Basically, '90s teen pop didn't even exist yet in American people's minds.

Actually, Backstreet Boys was rising in 1995 with their single "We've Got it Going On" which was big in EU but not NA. One Direction were rising in 2010 on the UK X-Factor. They hit it big in Europe in 2011, and made it in America in 2012. It's too late to say 2013 was when they solidified their place in American pop culture because they were HUGE in 2012. "What Makes You Beautiful" was everywhere.


True you got a point there! However I still wouldn't consider 2012 in its entirety a teen pop years. Maybe 2013 but not 2012

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Howard on 09/22/15 at 2:43 pm

I would say The late 60's and early 70's era.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: c_keenan2001@hotmail.com on 09/23/15 at 4:17 pm

1982-1991
Platinum Blonde, Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Tears For Fears were all teen idols for their time.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 09/23/15 at 7:01 pm


True you got a point there! However I still wouldn't consider 2012 in its entirety a teen pop years. Maybe 2013 but not 2012


Well, you could also say that 1997 wasn't a teen pop year in it's entirety. Teen pop went from being just another trend in 1997 and the first half of 1998 to a major phenomenon that it's remembered for today in the second half of 1998 all the way through the first quarter of 2001.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/23/15 at 9:25 pm


Well, you could also say that 1997 wasn't a teen pop year in it's entirety. Teen pop went from being just another trend in 1997 and the first half of 1998 to a major phenomenon that it's remembered for today in the second half of 1998 all the way through the first quarter of 2001.


True it was the transitional year from the Late X/Grunge Culture & The Early Y/Bubblegum Culture.

However I would still consider 2012 firmly within the Electropop era, aka Late Gen Y Culture. I would say the transitional year was 2013, especially the Summer of 2013, with Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez & Demi Lovato abandoning their kiddy roles, the breakthrough of Macklemore, Ariana Grande & Lorde, and the decline of dubstep and the rise of modern day EDM.

So 2013 was similar in ways to 97', it was the transitional year from Late Y/Electropop Culture & Early Z/New Teen Pop Culture.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mqg96 on 09/23/15 at 9:59 pm


True it was the transitional year from the Late X/Grunge Culture & The Early Y/Bubblegum Culture.

However I would still consider 2012 firmly within the Electropop era, aka Late Gen Y Culture. I would say the transitional year was 2013, especially the Summer of 2013, with Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez & Demi Lovato abandoning their kiddy roles, the breakthrough of Macklemore, Ariana Grande & Lorde, and the decline of dubstep and the rise of modern day EDM.

So 2013 was similar in ways to 97', it was the transitional year from Late Y/Electropop Culture & Early Z/New Teen Pop Culture.


Actually I would say 2012 was transitional year, especially the late part of it, and by 2013 the teen pop era was back in full effect. That's just me though.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/24/15 at 2:18 pm


Actually I would say 2012 was transitional year, especially the late part of it, and by 2013 the teen pop era was back in full effect. That's just me though.


IDK, 2012 while it definitely was a transitional year I felt it was the last year that it was more Y orientated than Z orientated. Early 2013, or basically the 2012-2013 school year, was a transitional period not just for music but for tech, fashion, tv, movies, etc.

It seemed like the last Gen Y school year looking back; Facebook was still in its prime, PS3 & Xbox 360 were still popular, the IOS 6 Era of Iphones when backgrounds weren't as colorful, emo & scene subcultures were at their tail end, brands like Abercrombie, Aeropostale, & American Eagle at their tail end of popularity, Hollister Neon Shirts in their last days, Preppy brand Hoodies still being everywhere, low rise jeans still being popular with girls, DC shoes still popular with the skater crowd, Uggs still the only dominant type of boots for girls, Northface fleece jackets still very popular, Ed Hardy shirts still popular, Dubstep & SOME Electropop still relevant, apps like Angry Birds & Subway Surfers still being relevant, tv shows like Jersey Shore, 16 & Pregnant, Teen Mom, Breaking Bad, The Office & How I met Your Mother at the tail end of their popularity, skinny jeans still only worn by scene kids and swaggies, etc.

But it had a lot of Z influences as well, the hipster culture starting to get big, smartphones were now a must have, the rise of teen pop like 1D, Ariana Grande, & Lorde, the announcements of PS4 & Xbox One and the release of Wii U, Dubstep starting to phase out in favor of EDM, people like Lady Gaga and Kesha now starting fade out in popularity, Blackberrys dead AF by this year, Twitter becoming more and more popular and by the end of the year becoming more relevant to teens than facebook, Vine & Snapchat getting big this year, internet memes like Harlem Shake solidifying the power of the internet and the relevancy of it to late Gen Yers & Gen Zers, and pop cultural terms like Selfie and BAE along with hashtags starting to become big around this time

So thats how I personally always saw it; 2011-2012 (our Sophomore year) was the last firm Gen Y School Year, 2012-2013 (our Junior year) was the Y/Z transitional school year with slightly more Y influences, 2013-2014 (our Senior Year) was the Gen Y/Z School Year with slightly more Z influences, 2014-2015 (our Freshman year of college) was the first firm Gen Z school year.

And we are currently most definitely in a Z school year as of now, the 2015-2016 school year. We are in a similar time to how Gen Y culture was peaking (and ironically there was a lot of teen pop and new tech at the time as well) during the 1999-2000 school year.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 09/24/15 at 2:43 pm


IDK, 2012 while it definitely was a transitional year I felt it was the last year that it was more Y orientated than Z orientated. Early 2013, or basically the 2012-2013 school year, was a transitional period not just for music but for tech, fashion, tv, movies, etc.

It seemed like the last Gen Y school year looking back; Facebook was still in its prime, PS3 & Xbox 360 were still popular, the IOS 6 Era of Iphones when backgrounds weren't as colorful, emo & scene subcultures were at their tail end, brands like Abercrombie, Aeropostale, & American Eagle at their tail end of popularity, Hollister Neon Shirts in their last days, Preppy brand Hoodies still being everywhere, low rise jeans still being popular with girls, DC shoes still popular with the skater crowd, Uggs still the only dominant type of boots for girls, Northface fleece jackets still very popular, Ed Hardy shirts still popular, Dubstep & SOME Electropop still relevant, apps like Angry Birds & Subway Surfers still being relevant, tv shows like Jersey Shore, 16 & Pregnant, Teen Mom, Breaking Bad, The Office & How I met Your Mother at the tail end of their popularity, skinny jeans still only worn by scene kids and swaggies, etc.

But it had a lot of Z influences as well, the hipster culture starting to get big, smartphones were now a must have, the rise of teen pop like 1D, Ariana Grande, & Lorde, the announcements of PS4 & Xbox One and the release of Wii U, Dubstep starting to phase out in favor of EDM, people like Lady Gaga and Kesha now starting fade out in popularity, Blackberrys dead AF by this year, Twitter becoming more and more popular and by the end of the year becoming more relevant to teens than facebook, Vine & Snapchat getting big this year, internet memes like Harlem Shake solidifying the power of the internet and the relevancy of it to late Gen Yers & Gen Zers, and pop cultural terms like Selfie and BAE along with hashtags starting to become big around this time

So thats how I personally always saw it; 2011-2012 (our Sophomore year) was the last firm Gen Y School Year, 2012-2013 (our Junior year) was the Y/Z transitional school year with slightly more Y influences, 2013-2014 (our Senior Year) was the Gen Y/Z School Year with slightly more Z influences, 2014-2015 (our Freshman year of college) was the first firm Gen Z school year.

And we are currently most definitely in a Z school year as of now, the 2015-2016 school year. We are in a similar time to how Gen Y culture was peaking (and ironically there was a lot of teen pop and new tech at the time as well) during the 1999-2000 school year.

So you think we are in Z culture right now? ???  I actually feel like we are in a mix of y/z not pure Z!

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 09/24/15 at 3:27 pm


So you think we are in Z culture right now? ???  I actually feel like we are in a mix of y/z not pure Z!


It depends on when the cutoff is for Gen Y.  Personally, I think the class of 2014 was the last graduating class that could be classified as Gen Y.  This cheesy Buzzfeed article sums up why I think that.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/32-extremely-upsetting-facts-about-the-class-of-2017

Pop culturally we aren't quite to pure Z culture yet but we are getting closer.  It's definitely more Z now than Y and it has been since 2013.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/24/15 at 3:41 pm


So you think we are in Z culture right now? ???  I actually feel like we are in a mix of y/z not pure Z!


Yeah we are in Z culture right now, which is aimed at Younger Gen Yers (like us, but we're now starting to slowly age out of the demographic) and mostly Gen Zers. However I would say we are still in its early stages. I would say around 2018 or 2019 is when we will be in the peak of Gen Z culture. Basically when those born in 1999-2001, some of the first true Gen Zers, come of age.


It depends on when the cutoff is for Gen Y.  Personally, I think the class of 2014 was the last graduating class that could be classified as Gen Y.  This cheesy Buzzfeed article sums up why I think that.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/32-extremely-upsetting-facts-about-the-class-of-2017

Pop culturally we aren't quite to pure Z culture yet but we are getting closer.  It's definitely more Z now than Y and it has been since 2013.


Yeah its weird to think that my class was the last Gen Y graduating class and sometimes just as weird to think it could be the first Gen Z class. Regardless, I do agree that since 2013, we've been mostly within the Z era, so much so that even I, a Y/Z cusper, is starting to feel a bit distant from culture now. Like things that were around when I was in high school are already starting to become dated compared to what high schoolers use today

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mqg96 on 09/24/15 at 7:57 pm


Yeah we are in Z culture right now, which is aimed at Younger Gen Yers (like us, but we're now starting to slowly age out of the demographic) and mostly Gen Zers. However I would say we are still in its early stages. I would say around 2018 or 2019 is when we will be in the peak of Gen Z culture. Basically when those born in 1999-2001, some of the first true Gen Zers, come of age.

Yeah its weird to think that my class was the last Gen Y graduating class and sometimes just as weird to think it could be the first Gen Z class. Regardless, I do agree that since 2013, we've been mostly within the Z era, so much so that even I, a Y/Z cusper, is starting to feel a bit distant from culture now. Like things that were around when I was in high school are already starting to become dated compared to what high schoolers use today


The timing of that is SCARY AF! We already have the internet explorer being released in mid 1995, which is debatably the cutoff for Y and start of Z. So basically by that definition the Class of 2013 (late 1994-mid 1995) would be the last full Y class and the Class of 2014 (late 1995-mid 1996) would be the first full Z class. Would the Class of 2013 be the last to have most of their childhoods in the early 2000's/millennial era, or Class of 2014 being the first class to have more core childhood years in the mid 2000's & after? Not to mention us being in Kindergarten and 1st grade when 9/11 happened, but should it start with grade school, or should Kindergarten be included in? Class of 2013's senior year could be the Y/Z culture, last full Y, or Class of 2014's senior year could be the first full Z culture, or the Y/Z transition? Man, just man, the timing of the culture and went it changes where ever we go throughout our lives. It's so amazing how this system works. It's like a curse or something lol.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 09/24/15 at 8:30 pm


The timing of that is SCARY AF! We already have the internet explorer being released in mid 1995, which is debatably the cutoff for Y and start of Z. So basically by that definition the Class of 2013 (late 1994-mid 1995) would be the last full Y class and the Class of 2014 (late 1995-mid 1996) would be the first full Z class. Would the Class of 2013 be the last to have most of their childhoods in the early 2000's/millennial era, or Class of 2014 being the first class to have more core childhood years in the mid 2000's & after? Not to mention us being in Kindergarten and 1st grade when 9/11 happened, but should it start with grade school, or should Kindergarten be included in? Class of 2013's senior year could be the Y/Z culture, last full Y, or Class of 2014's senior year could be the first full Z culture, or the Y/Z transition? Man, just man, the timing of the culture and went it changes where ever we go throughout our lives. It's so amazing how this system works. It's like a curse or something lol.

Pretty weird huh, some weird things I noticed. They were the last class to turn 5 during the 1999-00 school year. Last class to start high school during the 00s (09-10 school year, EVEN THOUGH pop culturally it was an early 10s school year.) I couldn't think of anymore facts. ;D

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 09/24/15 at 8:40 pm


It depends on when the cutoff is for Gen Y.  Personally, I think the class of 2014 was the last graduating class that could be classified as Gen Y.  This cheesy Buzzfeed article sums up why I think that.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/32-extremely-upsetting-facts-about-the-class-of-2017

Pop culturally we aren't quite to pure Z culture yet but we are getting closer.  It's definitely more Z now than Y and it has been since 2013.

I saw a couple of them... and DAMN :o  that article was made when late 98and 99ers were incoming freshman!! Many of them were mind blowing facts.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/24/15 at 9:36 pm


The timing of that is SCARY AF! We already have the internet explorer being released in mid 1995, which is debatably the cutoff for Y and start of Z. So basically by that definition the Class of 2013 (late 1994-mid 1995) would be the last full Y class and the Class of 2014 (late 1995-mid 1996) would be the first full Z class. Would the Class of 2013 be the last to have most of their childhoods in the early 2000's/millennial era, or Class of 2014 being the first class to have more core childhood years in the mid 2000's & after? Not to mention us being in Kindergarten and 1st grade when 9/11 happened, but should it start with grade school, or should Kindergarten be included in? Class of 2013's senior year could be the Y/Z culture, last full Y, or Class of 2014's senior year could be the first full Z culture, or the Y/Z transition? Man, just man, the timing of the culture and went it changes where ever we go throughout our lives. It's so amazing how this system works. It's like a curse or something lol.


True there are some of differences between the C/O 2013 & C/O 2014, but do you think there are just as many differences between the C/O 2014 & C/O 2015?

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 09/24/15 at 11:20 pm


It depends on when the cutoff is for Gen Y.  Personally, I think the class of 2014 was the last graduating class that could be classified as Gen Y.


I'd say Class of 2015 instead of '14. Many people born in 1996 graduated that year. I consider 1996 babies the last of the millennials, so Class of 2015.


Yeah we are in Z culture right now, which is aimed at Younger Gen Yers (like us, but we're now starting to slowly age out of the demographic) and mostly Gen Zers. However I would say we are still in its early stages. I would say around 2018 or 2019 is when we will be in the peak of Gen Z culture. Basically when those born in 1999-2001, some of the first true Gen Zers, come of age.

Yeah its weird to think that my class was the last Gen Y graduating class and sometimes just as weird to think it could be the first Gen Z class. Regardless, I do agree that since 2013, we've been mostly within the Z era, so much so that even I, a Y/Z cusper, is starting to feel a bit distant from culture now. Like things that were around when I was in high school are already starting to become dated compared to what high schoolers use today


I'm going to call bogus on this one. Your views on these things are odd. Culture-savviness doesn't start and end with HS. It goes on basically throughout a person's entire life. People gradually become more selective of the music that they consume throughout their mid-late 20's. People watch television until the day they die. People never really lose interest in seeing movies. We read books all our lives. Video games are played by men until their late 30's/early 40's, but they play it less often after about the 9th grade. People don't become out of touch with pop culture the day they turn 25! It's ridiculous for you to say that we start "aging out of the target demographic" as early as 17 years old, when really that's more when we're just getting started. As we get older we also have more disposable income so we're not constantly broke like teenagers generally are. Around the very early 20's is when people start going to clubs, which declines around 23 years of age because it gets old soon (anecdotally speaking that is), so people are plenty interested in music then. You also have to take into account how old someone was at which points in time and what the vibe of the music was when they were young. There are also many television shows and novels which are aimed at an older audience. Your view of these matters is very limited.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/25/15 at 10:59 am


I'd say Class of 2015 instead of '14. Many people born in 1996 graduated that year. I consider 1996 babies the last of the millennials, so Class of 2015.

I'm going to call bogus on this one. Your views on these things are odd. Culture-savviness doesn't start and end with HS. It goes on basically throughout a person's entire life. People gradually become more selective of the music that they consume throughout their mid-late 20's. People watch television until the day they die. People never really lose interest in seeing movies. We read books all our lives. Video games are played by men until their late 30's/early 40's, but they play it less often after about the 9th grade. People don't become out of touch with pop culture the day they turn 25! It's ridiculous for you to say that we start "aging out of the target demographic" as early as 17 years old, when really that's more when we're just getting started. As we get older we also have more disposable income so we're not constantly broke like teenagers generally are. Around the very early 20's is when people start going to clubs, which declines around 23 years of age because it gets old soon (anecdotally speaking that is), so people are plenty interested in music then. You also have to take into account how old someone was at which points in time and what the vibe of the music was when they were young. There are also many television shows and novels which are aimed at an older audience. Your view of these matters is very limited.


Yeah but the difference is that the pop culture really isn't aimed at us.

I would agree with you if we were the same we are now in lets say 2010 for instance, since there was a lot of variety of pop music for late teens and twenty somethings like Lady Gaga, Kesha, Black Eyed Peas, early Nicki Minaj, etc.

However, I noticed that ever since 2013, though that has shifted and I notice many musicians and music marketers are now catering to the tween & young teen demographic. Just look at any music video on YouTube and scroll the comments with music acts like Fifth Harmony or Ariana Grande and you'll notice that almost all of the commenters are around age 12-15/6ish give or take.

Also, could you see a girl our age jamming to One Direction?

Exactly  ;D

I knew a few girls my age who were into them when they became big in 2012, but a lot of those girls grew out of it REAL fast. Like seriously I would say by my senior year of H.S, if you were in the C/O 2014 and you liked 1D, Justin Bieber, or Becky G, you were probably made fun at. However if you were C/O 2016 OR C/O 2017, you could probably get away of it, especially since I noticed that a lot of the stereotypical Z music fans I know started around C/O 2016 (at least where I lived). Maybe thats why Bchris said in a previous post that he felt that C/O 2014 was probably the very last class that could be considered Gen Y, albeit late Gen Y.

But that's just a theory...

Now keep in mind, I am not saying that you cannot be savvy after a certain age, in fact you are right that most people in their early-mid 20's could still know who's popular, what certain slang is, fashion, etc. However, its up to the individual if they really want to partake in the various trends and most people in their 20's are already firm into their beliefs, subcultures, values, etc. So they may not be as swayed to like a Selena Gomez song in the same way a 16 year old would. And with music now entering a new peak of teen pop, it just makes 20 somethings, and even a few college students here like me Mqg & EAZYMAN, feel out of place, like the music is not "our's".

You get what I mean?

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 09/25/15 at 9:43 pm


Now keep in mind, I am not saying that you cannot be savvy after a certain age, in fact you are right that most people in their early-mid 20's could still know who's popular, what certain slang is, fashion, etc. However, its up to the individual if they really want to partake in the various trends and most people in their 20's are already firm into their beliefs, subcultures, values, etc. So they may not be as swayed to like a Selena Gomez song in the same way a 16 year old would. And with music now entering a new peak of teen pop, it just makes 20 somethings, and even a few college students here like me Mqg & EAZYMAN, feel out of place, like the music is not "our's".

You get what I mean?


I do. Most of my closest friends are either in their mid or late 20's, and pretty much none of us follow current musical trends all that closely. I mean, when a song becomes really popular (like "Happy" by Pharrell, or "Gangnam Style") I'm aware of it because it's pretty much impossible not to hear, but it's not like it was when I was 15 and would mow people's lawns just to get enough money to go down to the mall and buy the latest Strokes album. Looking back, my interest in current music really started to fade during the late '00s, and by the time 2009 came around, I was pretty much tapped out.

I think you do just get to a point where it just starts to feel like the current culture just isn't being aimed at you anymore. For me, that first came around the time that stuff like Hannah Montana, Lady Gaga, Selena Gomez, etc. started taking off, but it does happen to people at different ages. I had a cousin of mine that is around my age who was still into stuff like EDM in the early '10s, so it's not the same for everyone.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/25/15 at 11:44 pm


I do. Most of my closest friends are either in their mid or late 20's, and pretty much none of us follow current musical trends all that closely. I mean, when a song becomes really popular (like "Happy" by Pharrell, or "Gangnam Style") I'm aware of it because it's pretty much impossible not to hear, but it's not like it was when I was 15 and would mow people's lawns just to get enough money to go down to the mall and buy the latest Strokes album. Looking back, my interest in current music really started to fade during the late '00s, and by the time 2009 came around, I was pretty much tapped out.

I think you do just get to a point where it just starts to feel like the current culture just isn't being aimed at you anymore. For me, that first came around the time that stuff like Hannah Montana, Lady Gaga, Selena Gomez, etc. started taking off, but it does happen to people at different ages. I had a cousin of mine that is around my age who was still into stuff like EDM in the early '10s, so it's not the same for everyone.


True I feel like ever since 2014 that I'm not really the target audience anymore, albeit I'm just barely phasing out of it. I could only imagine how I would feel when I'm 22 or 23 when Gen Z culture would be at its peak

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 09/26/15 at 9:31 am


True I feel like ever since 2014 that I'm not really the target audience anymore, albeit I'm just barely phasing out of it. I could only imagine how I would feel when I'm 22 or 23 when Gen Z culture would be at its peak


Yeah, if you think about it, pop culture has been consistently skewing younger for quite some time now. Back in the early '90s, there was still plenty of music that was aimed and people in their twenties, and even people in their thirties; acts like Marc Cohn, Michael Bolton, U2, Peter Cetera, and even some alternative groups like Nirvana and Pearl Jam had big followings among post-college aged adults. It seems like this began to shift in the late '90s, when most of the major genres at that time (Teen Pop, Nu Metal, Pop-Punk) were mostly popular among the middle and high school crowd.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 09/26/15 at 10:14 am


Yeah, if you think about it, pop culture has been consistently skewing younger for quite some time now. Back in the early '90s, there was still plenty of music that was aimed and people in their twenties, and even people in their thirties; acts like Marc Cohn, Michael Bolton, U2, Peter Cetera, and even some alternative groups like Nirvana and Pearl Jam had big followings among post-college aged adults. It seems like this began to shift in the late '90s, when most of the major genres at that time (Teen Pop, Nu Metal, Pop-Punk) were mostly popular among the middle and high school crowd.


That is so true! I believe that ever since the late 90's has been marketed towards teens and ever since 2012/3 it has now been shifted to Tweens and young teens. Yeah I actually do not even think high schoolers are the prime age demographic anymore but i could be wrong lol

However I still generally like music today, and a good chunk of the top 40 today is actually pretty good. Musicians like Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran, Paramore, Kendrick Lamar, and a few songs from Iggy Azalea and Taylor Swift are just a few examples of good musicians in 2015. So it's not all bad, it's actually pretty good. I just hope this variety lasts because I notice that there's more and more teen pop getting big and taking over some good artists

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: Fearsword on 10/25/15 at 6:30 pm

Personally, I think Adele's new album will herald the end of the current teen pop era.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/25/15 at 10:38 pm


Personally, I think Adele's new album will herald the end of the current teen pop era.


I hope, but really I'm not too optimistic. The last single from 21 was promptly followed by Carly Rae Jepsen's Call Me Maybe.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 10/26/15 at 11:37 am

There are signs the current teen pop era may be coming to its end within the next couple of years.  One Direction is virtually absent from the radio today and Ariana Grande isn't as popular as she was a year ago.  Usually teen pop crazes don't last more than five years.  The last one before the current one was the Y2K era and that began in 1997 and ended in 2002.  The current one started in 2012 so my guess is it will be completely over sometime in 2017.  2016 will likely be a "past peak" year for teen pop much like 2001 was, though there will still be some teenybopper hits.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/26/15 at 12:18 pm


There are signs the current teen pop era may be coming to its end within the next couple of years.  One Direction is virtually absent from the radio today and Ariana Grande isn't as popular as she was a year ago.  Usually teen pop crazes don't last more than five years.  The last one before the current one was the Y2K era and that began in 1997 and ended in 2002.  The current one started in 2012 so my guess is it will be completely over sometime in 2017.  2016 will likely be a "past peak" year for teen pop much like 2001 was, though there will still be some teenybopper hits.


One Direction had Drag Me Down quite recently, and the song Perfect is also starting to make a splash on top 40 radio.  I've still heard Ariana Grande a lot on pop radio of the past few months, and any lack of popularity compared to 2014 can be simply attributed to the fact that she didn't release a new album this year.  Justin Bieber's What Do You Mean shot up to #1 in several countries, and his upcoming album is bound to sell millions, too.

Unlike 1997-2002, the current teen pop era isn't offset by a variety of other, more mature genres.  As teen pop is now not only significant, but also standard, it will surely take more than just a couple of years for it to fade completely.  While I could easily imagine disco revival becoming a full-fledged industry and not just a small handful of megahits by the late 2010s, my best guess is that teen pop is here to stay.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 10/26/15 at 1:04 pm


One Direction had Drag Me Down quite recently, and the song Perfect is also starting to make a splash on top 40 radio.  I've still heard Ariana Grande a lot on pop radio of the past few months, and any lack of popularity compared to 2014 can be simply attributed to the fact that she didn't release a new album this year.  Justin Bieber's What Do You Mean shot up to #1 in several countries, and his upcoming album is bound to sell millions, too.

Unlike 1997-2002, the current teen pop era isn't offset by a variety of other, more mature genres.  As teen pop is now not only significant, but also standard, it will surely take more than just a couple of years for it to fade completely.  While I could easily imagine disco revival becoming a full-fledged industry and not just a small handful of megahits by the late 2010s, my best guess is that teen pop is here to stay.


This is very true! However, if (if ever) the teen pop era ends when do you think it would be? Personally I feel that around 2018 it would end because since the main target audience of current teen pop is older Gen Zers and older Zers would be in their late teens by then, music marketers might want to capitalize on that demographic and make the music more mature.

But idk how thats going to play out though, and I am not entirely sure if thats even going to happen, but its a prediction of mine.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/26/15 at 2:51 pm




This is very true! However, if (if ever) the teen pop era ends when do you think it would be? Personally I feel that around 2018 it would end because since the main target audience of current teen pop is older Gen Zers and older Zers would be in their late teens by then, music marketers might want to capitalize on that demographic and make the music more mature.

But idk how thats going to play out though, and I am not entirely sure if thats even going to happen, but its a prediction of mine.


Teen pop isn't usually replaced by anything new so much as it's just consumed into trends that were already pretty significant during the respective era's prime.  Justin Timberlake, for example, took advantage of the Neptunes and Timbaland, both of whom were huge producers well before *NSYNC broke up.  George Michael and the members of New Edition simply grew older and recorded more mature, cutting edge music as the late 80s rolled around, though they definitely embraced the new-jack swing sound that had been just emerging since Janet's Nasty in 1986.

In the current case, I basically think the possibilities are that the disco revival movement will expand itself a little further, and maybe Compton and St. Louis will return as the biggest cities for mainstream rap instead of Toronto, even if hip hop itself doesn't evolve that much from its current incarnation.  If anything, even Justin Bieber's new material seems to signify somewhat of a shift out of mid-2010s teen pop, considering he's riding off of his recently formed bad boy image as opposed to the innocence that made artists like him, Ariana Grande, and Carly Rae Jepsen popular in the first place (though at the same time, he may just prove to be a male version of Miley Cyrus).  Especially with an increasingly disenchanted youth culture, I can definitely imagine, then, music becoming more raucous towards the end of this decade, though not necessarily better.  It'll be like the mid-late 2000s all over again.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 10/26/15 at 4:52 pm


Teen pop isn't usually replaced by anything new so much as it's just consumed into trends that were already pretty significant during the respective era's prime.  Justin Timberlake, for example, took advantage of the Neptunes and Timbaland, both of whom were huge producers well before *NSYNC broke up.  George Michael and the members of New Edition simply grew older and recorded more mature, cutting edge music as the late 80s rolled around, though they definitely embraced the new-jack swing sound that had been just emerging since Janet's Nasty in 1986.

In the current case, I basically think the possibilities are that the disco revival movement will expand itself a little further, and maybe Compton and St. Louis will return as the biggest cities for mainstream rap instead of Toronto, even if hip hop itself doesn't evolve that much from its current incarnation.  If anything, even Justin Bieber's new material seems to signify somewhat of a shift out of mid-2010s teen pop, considering he's riding off of his recently formed bad boy image as opposed to the innocence that made artists like him, Ariana Grande, and Carly Rae Jepsen popular in the first place (though at the same time, he may just prove to be a male version of Miley Cyrus).  Especially with an increasingly disenchanted youth culture, I can definitely imagine, then, music becoming more raucous towards the end of this decade, though not necessarily better.  It'll be like the mid-late 2000s all over again.


So do you think music will be mature again like during the Electropop era.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/26/15 at 6:02 pm


So do you think music will be mature again like during the Electropop era.


It's possible, but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 10/26/15 at 9:58 pm


Personally, I think Adele's new album will herald the end of the current teen pop era.


We already are near the end. The quantity is diminishing, but of course there are still some huge hits such as "What Do You Mean" and "Perfect".

I think One Direction's split in March 2016 is going to be the true death of the trend, or at least put it on life support. I also believe Justin Bieber's fabricated, totally calculated public redemption is going to show it's true colors and he's going to do something majorly foolish and lose the public's favor.


I hope, but really I'm not too optimistic. The last single from 21 was promptly followed by Carly Rae Jepsen's Call Me Maybe.


Yes, but that was almost four years ago. Four years is the general length of time a trend is relevant. That's how long electropop lasted (2008-2011) so the teen pop trend is also gonna be that length as well.


There are signs the current teen pop era may be coming to its end within the next couple of years.  One Direction is virtually absent from the radio today and Ariana Grande isn't as popular as she was a year ago.  Usually teen pop crazes don't last more than five years.  The last one before the current one was the Y2K era and that began in 1997 and ended in 2002.  The current one started in 2012 so my guess is it will be completely over sometime in 2017.  2016 will likely be a "past peak" year for teen pop much like 2001 was, though there will still be some teenybopper hits.


Not five, but four. 1997 through 2000 are the true teen pop years. 2001 still had teen pop, but it's grip on the mainstream music landscape was so weak that people consider it a different era from the teen pop period by choice. Back in July I read some old magazines and newspapers from 2001 and people were saying that "rock is back" and "hip-hop is back". It's similar to what people were saying after the disco years. In 1981 people were saying disco was dead and rock 'n' roll was back. 20 years later people were treating teen pop the same way.

Another example is in 1992 when '90s culture almost completely overtook '80s culture. There were still some '80s-sounding songs in 1992 and 1993 (adult contemporary ballads, hard rock power ballads, and pop hits) but people were saying the '80s were dead then. It was so insignificant that people chose to ignore the leftovers and considered it a separate era.


One Direction had Drag Me Down quite recently, and the song Perfect is also starting to make a splash on top 40 radio.  I've still heard Ariana Grande a lot on pop radio of the past few months, and any lack of popularity compared to 2014 can be simply attributed to the fact that she didn't release a new album this year.  Justin Bieber's What Do You Mean shot up to #1 in several countries, and his upcoming album is bound to sell millions, too.

Unlike 1997-2002, the current teen pop era isn't offset by a variety of other, more mature genres.  As teen pop is now not only significant, but also standard, it will surely take more than just a couple of years for it to fade completely.  While I could easily imagine disco revival becoming a full-fledged industry and not just a small handful of megahits by the late 2010s, my best guess is that teen pop is here to stay.


Miss, have you been paying attention to the radio or the Billboard Hot 100 more in depth? There are plenty of mature songs that have become (and continue to become) hits on the charts. Of course the majority of them don't hit the Top 15 of the Hot 100, but they tend to peak in the lower regions of the Top 40. Some of these only stay in this region for a week, but most stay longer (about 8 weeks or more). There is also far more diversity in the mainstream music landscape than you seem to imply it is. Your scope of the charts is limited, and you guys only focus on the most ubiquitous hits, as well as 95% of people here only focusing on what they don't like.


This is very true!


Actually no, that's not true at all. See my other responses for more information (also look at my profile and read my other posts as well).


In the current case, I basically think the possibilities are that the disco revival movement will expand itself a little further, and maybe Compton and St. Louis will return as the biggest cities for mainstream rap instead of Toronto, even if hip hop itself doesn't evolve that much from its current incarnation.  If anything, even Justin Bieber's new material seems to signify somewhat of a shift out of mid-2010s teen pop, considering he's riding off of his recently formed bad boy image as opposed to the innocence that made artists like him, Ariana Grande, and Carly Rae Jepsen popular in the first place (though at the same time, he may just prove to be a male version of Miley Cyrus).  Especially with an increasingly disenchanted youth culture, I can definitely imagine, then, music becoming more raucous towards the end of this decade, though not necessarily better.  It'll be like the mid-late 2000s all over again.


Hun, that was Pair 2 (2012 and 2013). It seemed as if every song was overproduced then. I lived them. I know what it was like. Every EDM song was either extremely harsh Progressive House or it was that grating Dubstep (which is noise, not music). Rap became unlistenable, and since 2012 only the rare exceptional hip-hop/rap song has actually been nice to listen to. Electropop was almost dead, and that music was overproduced and sounded uninspired at this time. Teen pop broke out at this time (although you could say teen pop was around in Pair 1 as well because of Justin Bieber) as well.

However, there were some highlights. 2012 introduced a lot of genres to the mainstream that would improve in quality in later years. This is when Indie rock and Anti-Pop truly kicked off, and Alternative R&B and Neo-Soul emerged as well. An example is Bruno Mars's Unorthodox Jukebox.

Pair 3 (2014 and 2015) was unfortunately the peak of teen pop, but looking back there wasn't as much as people like to claim. Pair 3 has seen a dramatic decline in hip-hop's popularity. Don't be surprised if Pair 4 is the death of hip-hop in the mainstream music landscape, because it's obviously fast approaching. Other forms of music are taking its place. EDM has also become more minimalistic and soulful (way more pleasant to listen to than in Pair 2). This time period has been surprisingly awesome for albums. Pair 3 has given us some of the most innovative hits of the century. Indie Rock is the genre that holds the most responsibility for this. Here is a sample of some of the most innovative hits of the 2010s and the 21st century. All of these are from 2014 and 2015, most of them are Indie and some of them are other genres:

Waves (feat. Robin Schulz) - Mr. Probz
i - Kendrick Lamar
Happy - Pharrell Williams
Don't - Ed Sheeran
Magic - Coldplay
Yellow Flicker Beat - Lorde
West Coast - Lana Del Rey  :o :o :o
Come With Me Now - KONGOS
We Might Be Dead by Tomorrow - Soko
Lean On (feat. DJ Snake) - Major Lazer
Elastic Heart - Sia
Here - Alessia Cara
Stolen Dance - Milky Chance
Renegades - X Ambassadors
Ex's & Oh's - Elle King

This is only just a sample. I think "West Coast" is one of the best rock songs of all time. It's one of the best songs of all time in general. It's seriously amazing; the song can't be defined – it's a genre-bending tune that defies traditional song labels because it sounds so different from what we have heard in the mainstream. It's better than anything made in the Aughts. I was baffled and flabbergasted when bchris02 said 2009 was the best year for music of the century so far; going back to songs such as "Good Girls Go Bad", "Don't Trust Me", "You Found Me", "Gives You Hell", "Right Round", "I'm Yours", "Just Dance", "Hey Soul Sister", and "Breakeven" would be an enormous step backwards. We have seen better, more innovative songs in the years since – why would I wanna go back? I don't. As a matter of fact, Indie Rock and Anti-Pop are only growing in popularity. Indie Rock isn't a genre with a specific sound. It holds numerous influences and is based primarily on musical innovation and lyrical themes of an unsatisfactory life and love. Everyone should feel blessed to have such a wonderful genre in the mainstream. That alone is exciting enough.

Looking at your posts and almost everyone else's, I think our radically different focuses are a reflection of our personalities and our wants and needs. Perhaps you and the other guys (ocarinafan96, bchris02, Shemp97, Slim95, Sita0, the2001, mach!ne_he@d, etc.) don't need innovation and richness in your music. You guys seem to prefer simpler, more fun and escapist songs. And considering those types of songs are largely recessionary right now, I could see how you feel pessimistic about the industry. It might also be our personalities as well; You guys might only focus on the bad when in the present and see the good later on, while I actively filter out the bad and only focus on the good while it's actually happening. It seems to me that sonikuu is the only one who's view of popular music lines up with mine. I used to see the industry like you guys just two years ago, but since spring 2014 things started getting more exciting and now I focus on current music that I like. I don't let the bad get to me anymore; If I don't like it, why should it matter to me?


In a final response to all the comments and the forum in general, I say don't worry about it too much. Enjoy the music. Complaining about the bad stuff is obviously making us ignore the good, which is right in front of us but we choose to ignore and forget it. If you were to really pay attention, you would be much happier. There are some exciting new trends bubbling up that we need to focus on. It's worth it.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/27/15 at 12:06 am

Yes, but that was almost four years ago. Four years is the general length of time a trend is relevant. That's how long electropop lasted (2008-2011) so the teen pop trend is also gonna be that length as well.

You seem very dogmatic about this idea that musical trends always last four years.  Depending on sociopolitical circumstances, that's not always the case.  Post-grunge was popular for 16 years (1994-2010; 6 and 10 years respectively if you split the movement into 90s and 2000s eras), late 90s teen pop was already huge in Europe in 1996, and back in the 80s, hair metal was huge from about the end of 1983 all the way through 1992.

Not five, but four. 1997 through 2000 are the true teen pop years. 2001 still had teen pop, but it's grip on the mainstream music landscape was so weak that people consider it a different era from the teen pop period by choice. Back in July I read some old magazines and newspapers from 2001 and people were saying that "rock is back" and "hip-hop is back". It's similar to what people were saying after the disco years. In 1981 people were saying disco was dead and rock 'n' roll was back. 20 years later people were treating teen pop the same way.

I disagree, I think 2001 was still a significant year for teen pop, it's just that it was the first year that the genre began to decline.  1999 and 2000 were really the absolute peak years of the teen pop movement (beginning with ...Baby One More Time and ending with the Black & Blue), with the genre being less ubiquitous but still very prominent in 1997 and 1998, as well as 2001.  In 2001, you had O-Town, Willa Ford, *NSYNC's Celebrity, and Jessica Simpson's Irresistible.  The millennial era teen pop movement didn't end definitely until after *NSYNC disbanded and LeAnn Rimes' Can't Fight the Movement peaked on the charts in 2002.

Miss, have you been paying attention to the radio or the Billboard Hot 100 more in depth? There are plenty of mature songs that have become (and continue to become) hits on the charts. Of course the majority of them don't hit the Top 15 of the Hot 100, but they tend to peak in the lower regions of the Top 40. Some of these only stay in this region for a week, but most stay longer (about 8 weeks or more). There is also far more diversity in the mainstream music landscape than you seem to imply it is. Your scope of the charts is limited, and you guys only focus on the most ubiquitous hits, as well as 95% of people here only focusing on what they don't like.

Of course there are some songs of substance to enjoy, but I really feel as though I have to look harder to find new hit songs and albums that truly blow me away.  Although I love Kiesza's Hideaway and enjoy Ed Sheeran and Pharrell, the ratio of memorable to forgettable songs is significantly lower for me than it was in 2009-2011 or especially any year between 1980 and 2002.  I don't even really think Uptown Funk! is that great a song; if it had been released in the early 80s as its style was inspired by, I would consider it one of the weaker post-disco hits of the day, as it has the rhythm but not the melodic freshness that defined classics like Let's Groove, Let It Whip, and Billie Jean.  I also don't really consider The Weeknd or current Drake mature or substantive, certainly not to the degree of rappers like 2Pac, Kanye West, Eminem, or Biggie.  The Hills, for example, has awful, feedback-driven production and sleazy lyrics ("I just f'd two b's 'fore I saw you?").

Pair 3 (2014 and 2015) was unfortunately the peak of teen pop, but looking back there wasn't as much as people like to claim. Pair 3 has seen a dramatic decline in hip-hop's popularity. Don't be surprised if Pair 4 is the death of hip-hop in the mainstream music landscape, because it's obviously fast approaching. Other forms of music are taking its place. EDM has also become more minimalistic and soulful (way more pleasant to listen to than in Pair 2). This time period has been surprisingly awesome for albums. Pair 3 has given us some of the most innovative hits of the century. Indie Rock is the genre that holds the most responsibility for this. Here is a sample of some of the most innovative hits of the 2010s and the 21st century. All of these are from 2014 and 2015, most of them are Indie and some of them are other genres:

Waves (feat. Robin Schulz) - Mr. Probz
i - Kendrick Lamar
Happy - Pharrell Williams
Don't - Ed Sheeran
Magic - Coldplay
Yellow Flicker Beat - Lorde
West Coast - Lana Del Rey  :o :o :o
Come With Me Now - KONGOS
We Might Be Dead by Tomorrow - Soko
Lean On (feat. DJ Snake) - Major Lazer
Elastic Heart - Sia
Here - Alessia Cara
Stolen Dance - Milky Chance
Renegades - X Ambassadors
Ex's & Oh's - Elle King

This is only just a sample. I think "West Coast" is one of the best rock songs of all time. It's one of the best songs of all time in general. It's seriously amazing; the song can't be defined – it's a genre-bending tune that defies traditional song labels because it sounds so different from what we have heard in the mainstream. It's better than anything made in the Aughts. I was baffled and flabbergasted when bchris02 said 2009 was the best year for music of the century so far; going back to songs such as "Good Girls Go Bad", "Don't Trust Me", "You Found Me", "Gives You Hell", "Right Round", "I'm Yours", "Just Dance", "Hey Soul Sister", and "Breakeven" would be an enormous step backwards. We have seen better, more innovative songs in the years since – why would I wanna go back? I don't. As a matter of fact, Indie Rock and Anti-Pop are only growing in popularity. Indie Rock isn't a genre with a specific sound. It holds numerous influences and is based primarily on musical innovation and lyrical themes of an unsatisfactory life and love. Everyone should feel blessed to have such a wonderful genre in the mainstream. That alone is exciting enough.


Even with some of the admittedly decent songs from this era, I think you vastly overstate the quality of mainstream mid-2010s music, as well as the diversity.  A major factor that separates the current decade from the 90s and 2000s is that before, there was a very healthy mix of electronic and live or acoustic, whereas now it seems as though 85% of all top 40 hits are oversaturated with electronic synthesizers and only 15% sound fairly organic.  Coldplay's Ghost Stories epitomizes selling out, considering the band went from an versatile and inventive post-britpop band in the 2000s to a generic EDM act this decade.  Fall Out Boy is another example that proves the variety is falling, having gone from one of the premier pop punk bands of the mid-late 2000s to a predominantly electro group with their comeback album.  Even with a lot of artists who don't fall under the teen pop category, like The Weeknd and Lorde, the quality of their music is hardly enough to compensate for all the kitsch flooding the radio otherwise.  Although nothing from the past few years besides Jason Derulo's Wiggle is as horrendous as the horrid snap music of 2005-2008, the pop charts are just underwhelming at best.

Also, you really think all those songs popular in 2009 were that awful?  Considering the few preceding years had things like Soulja Boy, D4L, Pretty Ricky, and Mims, I'd think you'd have been hard-pressed to find anything from 2009 quite that horrible.  Even if you're not personally the biggest fan of those songs you listed, I don't understand how they were this "enormous step backwards."  How were they not innovative, at least compared to the EDM-oversatured kitsch coming out now?  Songs like Don't Trust Me, Right Round, Just Dance, and the like were pushing styles and even images that were never previously at the forefront of popular music.  The tracks you listed also had substantive melodies and production that was well-rounded and not ultra-polished or like somebody's amplifier was malfunctioning.

Looking at your posts and almost everyone else's, I think our radically different focuses are a reflection of our personalities and our wants and needs. Perhaps you and the other guys (ocarinafan96, bchris02, Shemp97, Slim95, Sita0, the2001, mach!ne_he@d, etc.) don't need innovation and richness in your music. You guys seem to prefer simpler, more fun and escapist songs. And considering those types of songs are largely recessionary right now, I could see how you feel pessimistic about the industry. It might also be our personalities as well; You guys might only focus on the bad when in the present and see the good later on, while I actively filter out the bad and only focus on the good while it's actually happening. It seems to me that sonikuu is the only one who's view of popular music lines up with mine. I used to see the industry like you guys just two years ago, but since spring 2014 things started getting more exciting and now I focus on current music that I like. I don't let the bad get to me anymore; If I don't like it, why should it matter to me?

Honestly, this paragraph seems pretty condescending.  You seem to imply that me and the rest of the posters here don't share the appreciation for serious, artful, meaningful music that you apparently have.  While I don't have a problem with you finding merit in mid-2010s pop that the rest of us can't see, I have no idea how you can basically categorize almost all music that preceded your era as being little more than "simple" and "escapist," as if there's nothing of value to it.  These labels really vary from person to person, song to song, and you can't just assume your definition is the most valid.  If I'll be honest, I still think 2009-2011 is far from the best period for music ever (my favorites would be the early and mid-80s, as well as the mid-90s), but I'd really like you to elaborate more on why your favorite mid-2010s songs are objectively more sophisticated than songs from the 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s.  To my ears, at least, top 40 music is more formulaic than it has ever been in the past.

In a final response to all the comments and the forum in general, I say don't worry about it too much. Enjoy the music. Complaining about the bad stuff is obviously making us ignore the good, which is right in front of us but we choose to ignore and forget it. If you were to really pay attention, you would be much happier. There are some exciting new trends bubbling up that we need to focus on. It's worth it.


Frankly, I really, really want to like current top 40 hits, especially since this is the year of Back to the Future, but I've just been so underwhelmed that I find myself almost exclusively listening to stuff from the 80s and 90s, with some 70s, 2000s, and early 2010s mixed in.  Also, what if this was 2009?  Considering your dislike for that year in music, how would you keep up your optimistic attitude about the present state of music and be sincere about it?

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ArcticFox on 10/27/15 at 2:30 am


You seem very dogmatic about this idea that musical trends always last four years.  Depending on sociopolitical circumstances, that's not always the case.


I know musical trends don't always last four years, but that is the most common length. It's also the length that the public generally remembers a trend lasting, or chooses to do so. Disco lasted much longer than four years (1974-82), but people remember it as a 1976-79 trend.


Of course there are some songs of substance to enjoy, but I really feel as though I have to look harder to find new hit songs and albums that truly blow me away.  Although I love Kiesza's Hideaway and enjoy Ed Sheeran and Pharrell, the ratio of memorable to forgettable songs is significantly lower for me than it was in 2009-2011 or especially any year between 1980 and 2002.  I don't even really think Uptown Funk! is that great a song; if it had been released in the early 80s as its style was inspired by, I would consider it one of the weaker post-disco hits of the day, as it has the rhythm but not the melodic freshness that defined classics like Let's Groove, Let It Whip, and Billie Jean.  I also don't really consider The Weeknd or current Drake mature or substantive, certainly not to the degree of rappers like 2Pac, Kanye West, Eminem, or Biggie.  The Hills, for example, has awful, feedback-driven production and sleazy lyrics ("I just f'd two b's 'fore I saw you?").


"Uptown Funk" is good, but not great. The Weeknd and Drake are of course not as mature as 2Pac and Dr. Dre, but they have a few songs that I like (meaning they have some songs that you can actually call music). For The Weeknd, I like "Earned It" and "Can't Feel My Face". His lyrics to a lot of his songs are inappropriate, but he portrays himself as this disturbed freak (sexually). The Drake songs that I like in 2015 are "Energy" (don't like the vocals, but I like the piano and the lyrics), "Back to Back" (because it reminds me of early 2000's video game menu music) and "Hotline Bling" (not spectacular, but the bass isn't too loud, his vocals are not strident, and there's an actual tune). However, I don't like most of Drake's songs because they are unpleasant and sound like blaring noise.


Even with some of the admittedly decent songs from this era, I think you vastly overstate the quality of mainstream mid-2010s music, as well as the diversity.  A major factor that separates the current decade from the 90s and 2000s is that before, there was a very healthy mix of electronic and live or acoustic, whereas now it seems as though 85% of all top 40 hits are oversaturated with electronic synthesizers and only 15% sound fairly organic.  Coldplay's Ghost Stories epitomizes selling out, considering the band went from an versatile and inventive post-britpop band in the 2000s to a generic EDM act this decade.  Fall Out Boy is another example that proves the variety is falling, having gone from one of the premier pop punk bands of the mid-late 2000s to a predominantly electro group with their comeback album.  Even with a lot of artists who don't fall under the teen pop category, like The Weeknd and Lorde, the quality of their music is hardly enough to compensate for all the kitsch flooding the radio otherwise.  Although nothing from the past few years besides Jason Derulo's Wiggle is as horrendous as the horrid snap music of 2005-2008, the pop charts are just underwhelming at best.


Alright, perhaps I'm overstating it a little, but music is subjective. I feel very passionate about the music that I post on here; I take music very seriously and I try to diversify my playlists as much as I can without sacrificing my musical values and "rules". Regarding the ratio of Electronic and Organic (you said 85% E, 15% O), that's pretty overstated. If it was 2012 or 2013, I would agree with you. But 2014 and 2015 have actually seen a more balanced ratio and even a blend of both. There are also some Top 40 hits that perhaps you have missed that only charted for a few weeks before disappearing. The Voice has produced a decent amount of top 40 hits and many of them (almost all) are quite organic and sound nice to listen to. However, they weren't successful enough to make the Year-End list.

I strongly disagree with Coldplay's Ghost Stories. Have listened to the full album? While it's true that "A Sky Full of Stars" is EDM, it's the only hit single from that album to fall in that genre. It's unfortunately their biggest success off the album. In this case, their most successful was their most unremarkable. The album is actually really good and quite "conceptual". "Magic" and "Midnight" (their other two big US hit singles from that album) were far superior. I love "Magic", it's such as soothing mid-tempo R&B jam. It's very minimalistic and it calms you down – it's so different from the electronic music from Pair 2 ("Blackout" is a good example). Midnight is also very stripped down and sharp. The album has a more simplistic feel to it that is refreshing and not overly familiar. I like it better than Mylo Xyloto, which I also enjoyed. MX was too maximalistic and grandiose, and GH was a step into fresher territory.

It sort of agree with Fall Out Boy. I don't like Save Rock and Roll, as well as "My Songs Know What You Did in the Dark". American Beauty/American Psycho is a bit better, and is actually quite different. It's not a groundbreaking album, but I really enjoy "Centuries" and "Uma Thurman". I don't find either of them electronic, and they have a spark of energy to them that I like, especially "Centuries". And besides, I thought you said you didn't like Fall Out Boy back in the aughts?

Regarding The Weeknd and Lorde, I do think The Weeknd doesn't have enough strong songs to make up for much of the teen pop (with the exception of "Earned It" and "Can't Feel My Face"). I definitely disagree with Lorde. I really like "Royals" and "Team" (although the latter is better), and I find "Yellow Flicker Beat" to be original and dark. It's not a very catchy song to sing along to, but it has a nice beat and isn't overproduced. It goes beyond the boundaries of a standard mid '10 pop hit and the fact that it hit #34 in America is a testimony that the public is willing to accept unique music. Same applies to Sia's "Elastic Heart", which is also very original and dark.


Also, you really think all those songs popular in 2009 were that awful?  Considering the few preceding years had things like Soulja Boy, D4L, Pretty Ricky, and Mims, I'd think you'd have been hard-pressed to find anything from 2009 quite that horrible.  Even if you're not personally the biggest fan of those songs you listed, I don't understand how they were this "enormous step backwards."  How were they not innovative, at least compared to the EDM-oversatured kitsch coming out now?  Songs like Don't Trust Me, Right Round, Just Dance, and the like were pushing styles and even images that were never previously at the forefront of popular music.  The tracks you listed also had substantive melodies and production that was well-rounded and not ultra-polished or like somebody's amplifier was malfunctioning.


I never said it was awful, I just dislike most of those songs. 2009 is a bit overrated, but I find songs that I like such as "Meet Me Halfway", "Sober", and "Russian Roulette". As a matter of fact, my statement of 2009 mirrors your posts about current music. We talk about what we don't like, and don't mention what we do. But honestly, if you were to study the charts, you'd see that EDM is actually declining. The amount of EDM songs that become hits is a much smaller quantity than back in Pair 2. The EDM almost all songs that do become hits I find refreshing, such as "On My Mind", "How Deep Is Your Love", "Rather Be", "Lean On", and "Waves" among a few more (Pair 3 hits). But back on topic, I just don't relate to the energy of the '09 rock songs. I just find mid 2010's Indie Rock songs like "West Coast", "Ex's & Oh's", "Renegades", "Yellow Flicker Beat", "Come With Me Now", "Budapest", and "Stolen Dance" to be more enjoyable and satisfying than "Good Girls Go Bad", "Don't Trust Me", "Use Somebody", "Love Drunk", "Gives You Hell", "Second Chance", and "Fireflies". I feel this even more when I compare them side-by-side. I just find the Pair 3 Indie Rock songs more innovative and fitting to my tastes.


Honestly, this paragraph seems pretty condescending.  You seem to imply that me and the rest of the posters here don't share the appreciation for serious, artful, meaningful music that you apparently have.  While I don't have a problem with you finding merit in mid-2010s pop that the rest of us can't see, I have no idea how you can basically categorize almost all music that preceded your era as being little more than "simple" and "escapist," as if there's nothing of value to it.  These labels really vary from person to person, song to song, and you can't just assume your definition is the most valid.  If I'll be honest, I still think 2009-2011 is far from the best period for music ever (my favorites would be the early and mid-80s, as well as the mid-90s), but I'd really like you to elaborate more on why your favorite mid-2010s songs are objectively more sophisticated than songs from the 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s.  To my ears, at least, top 40 music is more formulaic than it has ever been in the past.


I was making a statement. I have not read any explicit statements saying that many of you guys like serious, artful music. Now that you have made yours, I believe you. I'm never actively being rude in my posts, if anyone finds my content offensive then it's because they read it that way. When I called you miss in the above response? I was being courteous and polite. I even considered adding "Hun" in another response to be tactful, but I figured you might think I was being a jerk and saying it ironically, which I didn't want to come off as. If I upset you with my statement and caused confusion, then I apologize. However, I'm not sorry that I stated that almost everyone on this board always criticizes the current scene and always ignores the quality and acts like it doesn't exist. It's not true that high quality music is non-existent in the present. Pair 3 is far from my favorite period for music. I like the 1990's way, way more. I also like songs from the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. However, I'm trying to focus on what is going on now, and I'm appreciating what music is available today, because I'm afraid I'll miss out on wonderful music. I'm trying to find the good in what I do like and I just ignore the bad instead of letting it get to me.

I never said that mid 2010s music is objectively better than music from the '90s, but I do find some songs to be worth remembering by future generations in the decades to come. I find the Indie Rock to be most deserving of this, but I see music like Adele to be deserving of this as well as Bruno Mars. I love '90s music, and I don't know about you, but I actually find some of these Indie Rock and R&B hits to have some resemblances. Of course they're not exactly alike; you'll notice it in some of the minuscule details, such as a guitar riff, or a beat, or the lyrical content. It's not as good as the '90s Alternative Rock, but I think it offers some form of spiritual succession while still maintaining originality. If you were to listen to '90s Rock and compare it to 2010's Indie, you'll be able to see some "familial" similarities. You could also say the same for the 1960's w/ their folk and soul music (also popular in the '90s). Listen to 1960's music, compare it to 2010's R&B such as Adele and Alessia Cara and you'll be able to see some genetic similarities. Your respect for those past decades will help you see those 2010's songs in a more positive light, even if they're pretty different. I'll message you all the (good) 2010's Indie Rock/Anti-Pop songs if you want and you can try it for yourself. I guarantee you you'll also see some top 40 hits that you don't remember at all, because their chart success was a vapor (basically blink and you missed it).

Also, you said that top 40 music now is more formulaic than ever before in the past. Doesn't that contradict with your previous statements that the charts in 2005-2008 was filled with crunk, snap, and emo pop? You said you hated those. And speaking of the aughts, the reason why I like my 2010's songs more is because the Aughts as a whole were so blatantly commercial that originality and experimentation were almost completely gone. It was like seeing an Amur Leopard. The decade was so afraid to try something new and surprise the masses that the quality suffered. I mean, this is the decade of "On the Way Down", "Sk8er Boi", "Just the Girl", "Girl Next Door", and "Welcome to the Black Parade" that I'm talking about. The Indie Rock of the 2010s is more diverse. No two songs sound alike, because the trend isn't large enough reach that point, although it's growing in popularity. I'm optimistic though, that it'll maintain it's diversity and freshness.


Frankly, I really, really want to like current top 40 hits, especially since this is the year of Back to the Future, but I've just been so underwhelmed that I find myself almost exclusively listening to stuff from the 80s and 90s, with some 70s, 2000s, and early 2010s mixed in.  Also, what if this was 2009?  Considering your dislike for that year in music, how would you keep up your optimistic attitude about the present state of music and be sincere about it?


I don't dislike 2009, I just find it overrated. I would still find songs to enjoy, but also listen to older music as well. Listening to the 2010's music the I actually like and mixing it with '90s music which is far superior helps me keep my optimism up. I would just ignore what I don't like, and focus on what I do enjoy. If there is a song that I dislike, then I find it irrelevant in my brain and I make no space for it to be favored. It practically doesn't exist to me. That's how I keep my optimism for the future of music.

How about a New Year's Resolution: To be more open-minded about popular music in 2016 and just mentally "weed out" what you don't like, and focus more on the songs you do like. Pretend that the bad songs of 2016 don't exist in your world. Be willing to try new genres and sounds, but still hanging on to your musical standards and mental rules. You don't have to take up my challenge, but you should give it a try. It's only a year - the time will fly by. This goes out to other members who are reading this as well (ocarinafan96 I'm looking at you!!).

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: #Infinity on 10/27/15 at 11:01 am


I know musical trends don't always last four years, but that is the most common length. It's also the length that the public generally remembers a trend lasting, or chooses to do so. Disco lasted much longer than four years (1974-82), but people remember it as a 1976-79 trend.


Actually, disco was already gigantic in 1975, and it was basically completely dead after 1980.  Songs like Celebration and Super Freak are post-disco, a slicker, more electronic and less orchestral offshoot of disco.  Funkytown by Lipps, Inc. is usually considered the last disco song to make a chart impact.

Alright, perhaps I'm overstating it a little, but music is subjective. I feel very passionate about the music that I post on here; I take music very seriously and I try to diversify my playlists as much as I can without sacrificing my musical values and "rules". Regarding the ratio of Electronic and Organic (you said 85% E, 15% O), that's pretty overstated. If it was 2012 or 2013, I would agree with you. But 2014 and 2015 have actually seen a more balanced ratio and even a blend of both. There are also some Top 40 hits that perhaps you have missed that only charted for a few weeks before disappearing. The Voice has produced a decent amount of top 40 hits and many of them (almost all) are quite organic and sound nice to listen to. However, they weren't successful enough to make the Year-End list.

It feels as though once in awhile, a new album will come out that actually breaks the norm and offers something fresh, but then people forget about it almost immediately.  This happened to Dr. Dre's Compton, as well as Janet Jackson's most recent album.

I strongly disagree with Coldplay's Ghost Stories. Have listened to the full album? While it's true that "A Sky Full of Stars" is EDM, it's the only hit single from that album to fall in that genre. It's unfortunately their biggest success off the album. In this case, their most successful was their most unremarkable. The album is actually really good and quite "conceptual". "Magic" and "Midnight" (their other two big US hit singles from that album) were far superior. I love "Magic", it's such as soothing mid-tempo R&B jam. It's very minimalistic and it calms you down – it's so different from the electronic music from Pair 2 ("Blackout" is a good example). Midnight is also very stripped down and sharp. The album has a more simplistic feel to it that is refreshing and not overly familiar. I like it better than Mylo Xyloto, which I also enjoyed. MX was too maximalistic and grandiose, and GH was a step into fresher territory.

I'm not perfectly versed with Coldplay's music, since I haven't listened to their albums in full, but I know that a lot of people really don't care for Ghost Stories, nor do they enjoy Mylo Xyloto.  On Rate Your Music, those albums have average ratings of 2.58 and 2.62 out of 5, respectively, whereas all four of their 2000s releases were above 3.00.  Even if not all of their new material qualifies as "EDM," the group has still become much more synthesized and far from the well-rounded sound that made them popular in the first place.

It sort of agree with Fall Out Boy. I don't like Save Rock and Roll, as well as "My Songs Know What You Did in the Dark". American Beauty/American Psycho is a bit better, and is actually quite different. It's not a groundbreaking album, but I really enjoy "Centuries" and "Uma Thurman". I don't find either of them electronic, and they have a spark of energy to them that I like, especially "Centuries". And besides, I thought you said you didn't like Fall Out Boy back in the aughts?

I didn't care much for them back when they first came out, but that was largely because I was distraught by the state of music in general when they entered the mainstream.  They're still inferior to Green Day, The Offspring, and even Sum 41, Good Charlotte, and blink-182, but they still released mostly decent material during the height of pop punk.

I never said it was awful, I just dislike most of those songs. 2009 is a bit overrated, but I find songs that I like such as "Meet Me Halfway", "Sober", and "Russian Roulette". As a matter of fact, my statement of 2009 mirrors your posts about current music. We talk about what we don't like, and don't mention what we do. But honestly, if you were to study the charts, you'd see that EDM is actually declining. The amount of EDM songs that become hits is a much smaller quantity than back in Pair 2. The EDM almost all songs that do become hits I find refreshing, such as "On My Mind", "How Deep Is Your Love", "Rather Be", "Lean On", and "Waves" among a few more (Pair 3 hits). But back on topic, I just don't relate to the energy of the '09 rock songs. I just find mid 2010's Indie Rock songs like "West Coast", "Ex's & Oh's", "Renegades", "Yellow Flicker Beat", "Come With Me Now", "Budapest", and "Stolen Dance" to be more enjoyable and satisfying than "Good Girls Go Bad", "Don't Trust Me", "Use Somebody", "Love Drunk", "Gives You Hell", "Second Chance", and "Fireflies". I feel this even more when I compare them side-by-side. I just find the Pair 3 Indie Rock songs more innovative and fitting to my tastes.

Well, the way you framed your argument made it seem as though you in fact did hate 2009 in music in general, certainly if we're comparing it to all other recent years.

I also disagree with your statement about EDM.  The genre very much still has a serious presence on the charts.  Just look at Justin Bieber's What Do You Mean?, Taylor Swift's Wildest Dreams, and Jason Derulo's Want to Want Me, for example.  More particularly, however, even if we overlook songs of the EDM category, the vast majority of other tracks are still overly polished and synthesized, with more and more traditionally acoustic genres blending in with the usual top 40 (not just rock, but also country, thanks to the bro-country movement).

I was making a statement. I have not read any explicit statements saying that many of you guys like serious, artful music. Now that you have made yours, I believe you. I'm never actively being rude in my posts, if anyone finds my content offensive then it's because they read it that way. When I called you miss in the above response? I was being courteous and polite. I even considered adding "Hun" in another response to be tactful, but I figured you might think I was being a jerk and saying it ironically, which I didn't want to come off as. If I upset you with my statement and caused confusion, then I apologize.

I wasn't offended by your use of feminine titles, if anything they felt complimentary.  I was more surprised by the way you made it seem as though you and sonikuu were the only people with open-minded musical tastes, while everybody else was just trying to be negative and only able to appreciate older, "more simplistic" stuff.  Essentially, this goes not just for myself, but also everybody else you made out to be myopic elitists.  The way you phrased your paragraph made it seem as though you and sonikuu's whole world views are more sophisticated than everybody else's, when there's clearly far more to our disinterest in current popular music than just blinding nostalgia for our childhoods and adolescences.

However, I'm not sorry that I stated that almost everyone on this board always criticizes the current scene and always ignores the quality and acts like it doesn't exist. It's not true that high quality music is non-existent in the present. Pair 3 is far from my favorite period for music. I like the 1990's way, way more. I also like songs from the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's. However, I'm trying to focus on what is going on now, and I'm appreciating what music is available today, because I'm afraid I'll miss out on wonderful music. I'm trying to find the good in what I do like and I just ignore the bad instead of letting it get to me.

I look for good music too, but I hardly find anything worth purchasing off of iTunes with money that I could be spending instead to discover albums from bygone movements that were just fresher and more memorable, in my opinion.  I think positive attitudes and open minds are a good thing coming into something new, but I also think just because you don't like most of what's currently being released doesn't mean you're just closing yourself off to it.  I was actually forced to listen to current top 40 for an extended period of time on two occasions just recently, and both times I just found my mind going numb extremely quickly because I thought the songs were so repetitive and uninteresting.  When I listen to my old Now That's What I Call Music! albums from the late 90s and early 2000s (plus my own, handcrafted Now albums for years prior to 1998, when the first American release came out), it's a completely different story.

I don't think the majority of us consider current music universally terrible, so much as we think the current dominant trends and thus majority of major hits are substandard, juvenile, and uninspired.  I know a lot of people, including myself, think indie rock has been inferior this decade compared to the 2000s.  I did find a few relatively solid albums by looking at Best Ever Albums' top albums of 2015, but simply looking at the scene from an overall perspective, things have been rather bleak as of late.

Also, you said that top 40 music now is more formulaic than ever before in the past. Doesn't that contradict with your previous statements that the charts in 2005-2008 was filled with crunk, snap, and emo pop? You said you hated those.

Formulaic ≠ bad.  A lot of 80s music was pretty formulaic, but most of it was still excellent, in my opinion.  The problem with crunk/snap from 2005-2008 was that it was just straight-up unpleasant to listen to.  Not only was the production minimalist in a bad way, the lyrics were aggressively immature, misogynistic, and raucous, relying on uninspired chants and rapping that has no rhythm whatsoever.  Mid-2010s pop, insipidly boring as it may be, is still not atrocious to the point where it's literally painful to listen to, as is the case with songs like Laffy Taffy and Walk It Out.

And speaking of the aughts, the reason why I like my 2010's songs more is because the Aughts as a whole were so blatantly commercial that originality and experimentation were almost completely gone. It was like seeing an Amur Leopard. The decade was so afraid to try something new and surprise the masses that the quality suffered. I mean, this is the decade of "On the Way Down", "Sk8er Boi", "Just the Girl", "Girl Next Door", and "Welcome to the Black Parade" that I'm talking about. The Indie Rock of the 2010s is more diverse. No two songs sound alike, because the trend isn't large enough reach that point, although it's growing in popularity. I'm optimistic though, that it'll maintain it's diversity and freshness.

Are you sure?  The 2000s were a commercial decade, without a doubt, but I don't really see how the 2010s are any less so.  You're clearly overstating the prevalence of indie rock right now, at least on the mainstream charts.  Much of it, really, is pseudo-indie, i.e. Imagine Dragons and new Coldplay, and is far weaker than bands like Arcade Fire and The Black Keys.

How about a New Year's Resolution: To be more open-minded about popular music in 2016 and just mentally "weed out" what you don't like, and focus more on the songs you do like. Pretend that the bad songs of 2016 don't exist in your world. Be willing to try new genres and sounds, but still hanging on to your musical standards and mental rules. You don't have to take up my challenge, but you should give it a try. It's only a year - the time will fly by. This goes out to other members who are reading this as well (ocarinafan96 I'm looking at you!!).

Again, this is a pretty naive and underestimating statement.  I already distance myself quite heavily from current music to the point where I'm predominantly familiar with stuff released in the 80s and 90s but I hardly listen to modern music.  I could listen to my copies of To Pimp a Butterfly, The Magic Whip, and Sometimes I Sit And Think, And Sometimes I Just Sit on a regular basis just for the sake of appreciating music from 2015, but I still end up blasting my albums from the 1980s and 1990s instead because those decades just had a greater variety of classic picks to choose from.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 10/27/15 at 4:03 pm


I was baffled and flabbergasted when bchris02 said 2009 was the best year for music of the century so far; going back to songs such as "Good Girls Go Bad", "Don't Trust Me", "You Found Me", "Gives You Hell", "Right Round", "I'm Yours", "Just Dance", "Hey Soul Sister", and "Breakeven" would be an enormous step backwards.


To be fair, half of those songs peaked in either 2008 or 2010 so I wouldn't consider them to be the songs that made 2009 great.  Plus, they are hardly the best or even representative of what the era had to offer. How about these.

Maino - All of the Above
Kelly Clarkson - Already Gone
Lady Gaga - Bad Romance
Akon feat Colby O'Donis - Beautiful
Young Money feat Lil Wayne - Bedrock
Drake - Best I Ever Had
Jamie Foxx feat. T-Pain - Blame It
Black Eyed Peas - I Got A Feeling
Akon - Day Dreaming
Kid Cudi - Day 'N' Night
T.I. feat Justin Timberlake - Dead and Gone
Jay Sean feat Lil Wayne - Down
Ester Dean feat Chris Brown - Drop It Low
Jay-Z - Empire State of Mind
Cascada - Evacuate the Dance Floor
Britney Spears - 3
Owl City - Fireflies
Beyonce - Halo
Katy Perry - Hot N' Cold
Pitbull - I Know You Want Me
Britney Spears - Radar
Lady Gaga - Lovegame
Lady Gaga - Poker Face
Jason DeRulo - In My Head
Daughtry - No Surprise
Mary J Blige feat Drake - The One
Lady Gaga - Paparazzi
Miley Cyrus - Party In The USA
Pink - Please Don't Leave Me
David Guetta feat Akon - Sexy Chick
Ke$ha - Tik Tok
Fabolous - Throw it in the Bag
David Guetta feat Kelly Rowland - When Love Takes Over
Jason Derulo - Whatcha Say
Drake feat Kanye West and Lil Wayne - Forever

That is just scratching the surface.  Many of those songs (not all of them) have become classics today.  I would put all of them above almost anything released in 2013 or later.


We have seen better, more innovative songs in the years since – why would I wanna go back? I don't. As a matter of fact, Indie Rock and Anti-Pop are only growing in popularity. Indie Rock isn't a genre with a specific sound. It holds numerous influences and is based primarily on musical innovation and lyrical themes of an unsatisfactory life and love. Everyone should feel blessed to have such a wonderful genre in the mainstream. That alone is exciting enough.


There is innovation today, but little is finding its way into Top 40.  You can't judge today's Top 40 based off of what the Indie scene is doing.  I admit, indie music is doing really well right now and I like a lot of it.  It is NOT mainstream Top 40 though.  I would gladly take late 2000s Top 40 over today's Top 40.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mqg96 on 10/27/15 at 6:12 pm


To be fair, half of those songs peaked in either 2008 or 2010 so I wouldn't consider them to be the songs that made 2009 great.  Plus, they are hardly the best or even representative of what the era had to offer. How about these.

Maino - All of the Above
Kelly Clarkson - Already Gone
Lady Gaga - Bad Romance
Akon feat Colby O'Donis - Beautiful
Young Money feat Lil Wayne - Bedrock
Drake - Best I Ever Had
Jamie Foxx feat. T-Pain - Blame It
Black Eyed Peas - I Got A Feeling
Akon - Day Dreaming
Kid Cudi - Day 'N' Night
T.I. feat Justin Timberlake - Dead and Gone
Jay Sean feat Lil Wayne - Down
Ester Dean feat Chris Brown - Drop It Low
Jay-Z - Empire State of Mind
Cascada - Evacuate the Dance Floor
Britney Spears - 3
Owl City - Fireflies
Beyonce - Halo
Katy Perry - Hot N' Cold
Pitbull - I Know You Want Me
Britney Spears - Radar
Lady Gaga - Lovegame
Lady Gaga - Poker Face
Jason DeRulo - In My Head
Daughtry - No Surprise
Mary J Blige feat Drake - The One
Lady Gaga - Paparazzi
Miley Cyrus - Party In The USA
Pink - Please Don't Leave Me
David Guetta feat Akon - Sexy Chick
Ke$ha - Tik Tok
Fabolous - Throw it in the Bag
David Guetta feat Kelly Rowland - When Love Takes Over
Jason Derulo - Whatcha Say
Drake feat Kanye West and Lil Wayne - Forever

That is just scratching the surface.  Many of those songs (not all of them) have become classics today.  I would put all of them above almost anything released in 2013 or later.


You just gave me an heavenly epic flashback of my late middle school and early high school years! 8)

Now after much thought and me thinking about this. Now I understand why you have a strong dislike for 2013 music or onwards, but I hear you blame the year 2013 for a lot of the music we have now. Although I really enjoyed Eminem's "The Marshall Mathers LP 2" Album from that year, which had some great songs, and I liked Justin Timberlake Suit & Tie as well. However, I was confused at first on why you didn't like 2013 but now I know. My question is that when it comes to people who were fans of the mainstream music of the early & mid 90's like the hip-hop, R&B, the pop songs, or whatever. I wonder how they felt about the teenybopper music from the late 90's when Britney Spears, Spice Girls, or many others from that time dominated and changed the face of music after Notorious Big and Tupac's deaths.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: bchris02 on 10/27/15 at 7:02 pm


Now after much thought and me thinking about this. Now I understand why you have a strong dislike for 2013 music or onwards, but I hear you blame the year 2013 for a lot of the music we have now. Although I really enjoyed Eminem's "The Marshall Mathers LP 2" Album from that year, which had some great songs, and I liked Justin Timberlake Suit & Tie as well. However, I was confused at first on why you didn't like 2013 but now I know. My question is that when it comes to people who were fans of the mainstream music of the early & mid 90's like the hip-hop, R&B, the pop songs, or whatever. I wonder how they felt about the teenybopper music from the late 90's when Britney Spears, Spice Girls, or many others from that time dominated and changed the face of music after Notorious Big and Tupac's deaths.


2013 had some good music.  There was a lot of great pure EDM that year as well as some good indie rock, a few songs which crossed over to Top 40.  You still had some hip-hop with the late '00s "synth" sound, which had been on the decline since 2011 but was still used until 2013.  However, that was also the year that mainstream Top 40 became predominantly teen pop and disco revival.  The fact that wasn't a good time for my personal life also contributes to my dislike of the changes that occurred that year.

From my recollection, '90s teens who were in their twenties when the Y2K-era teen pop craze occurred were the primary consumers of indie rock during the '00s...much like today.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: musicguy93 on 10/29/15 at 12:09 am


Actually, disco was already gigantic in 1975, and it was basically completely dead after 1980.  Songs like Celebration and Super Freak are post-disco, a slicker, more electronic and less orchestral offshoot of disco.  Funkytown by Lipps, Inc. is usually considered the last disco song to make a chart impact.

It feels as though once in awhile, a new album will come out that actually breaks the norm and offers something fresh, but then people forget about it almost immediately.  This happened to Dr. Dre's Compton, as well as Janet Jackson's most recent album.

I'm not perfectly versed with Coldplay's music, since I haven't listened to their albums in full, but I know that a lot of people really don't care for Ghost Stories, nor do they enjoy Mylo Xyloto.  On Rate Your Music, those albums have average ratings of 2.58 and 2.62 out of 5, respectively, whereas all four of their 2000s releases were above 3.00.  Even if not all of their new material qualifies as "EDM," the group has still become much more synthesized and far from the well-rounded sound that made them popular in the first place.

I didn't care much for them back when they first came out, but that was largely because I was distraught by the state of music in general when they entered the mainstream.  They're still inferior to Green Day, The Offspring, and even Sum 41, Good Charlotte, and blink-182, but they still released mostly decent material during the height of pop punk.

Well, the way you framed your argument made it seem as though you in fact did hate 2009 in music in general, certainly if we're comparing it to all other recent years.

I also disagree with your statement about EDM.  The genre very much still has a serious presence on the charts.  Just look at Justin Bieber's What Do You Mean?, Taylor Swift's Wildest Dreams, and Jason Derulo's Want to Want Me, for example.  More particularly, however, even if we overlook songs of the EDM category, the vast majority of other tracks are still overly polished and synthesized, with more and more traditionally acoustic genres blending in with the usual top 40 (not just rock, but also country, thanks to the bro-country movement).

I wasn't offended by your use of feminine titles, if anything they felt complimentary.  I was more surprised by the way you made it seem as though you and sonikuu were the only people with open-minded musical tastes, while everybody else was just trying to be negative and only able to appreciate older, "more simplistic" stuff.  Essentially, this goes not just for myself, but also everybody else you made out to be myopic elitists.  The way you phrased your paragraph made it seem as though you and sonikuu's whole world views are more sophisticated than everybody else's, when there's clearly far more to our disinterest in current popular music than just blinding nostalgia for our childhoods and adolescences.

I look for good music too, but I hardly find anything worth purchasing off of iTunes with money that I could be spending instead to discover albums from bygone movements that were just fresher and more memorable, in my opinion.  I think positive attitudes and open minds are a good thing coming into something new, but I also think just because you don't like most of what's currently being released doesn't mean you're just closing yourself off to it.  I was actually forced to listen to current top 40 for an extended period of time on two occasions just recently, and both times I just found my mind going numb extremely quickly because I thought the songs were so repetitive and uninteresting.  When I listen to my old Now That's What I Call Music! albums from the late 90s and early 2000s (plus my own, handcrafted Now albums for years prior to 1998, when the first American release came out), it's a completely different story.

I don't think the majority of us consider current music universally terrible, so much as we think the current dominant trends and thus majority of major hits are substandard, juvenile, and uninspired.  I know a lot of people, including myself, think indie rock has been inferior this decade compared to the 2000s.  I did find a few relatively solid albums by looking at Best Ever Albums' top albums of 2015, but simply looking at the scene from an overall perspective, things have been rather bleak as of late.

Formulaic ≠ bad.  A lot of 80s music was pretty formulaic, but most of it was still excellent, in my opinion.  The problem with crunk/snap from 2005-2008 was that it was just straight-up unpleasant to listen to.  Not only was the production minimalist in a bad way, the lyrics were aggressively immature, misogynistic, and raucous, relying on uninspired chants and rapping that has no rhythm whatsoever.  Mid-2010s pop, insipidly boring as it may be, is still not atrocious to the point where it's literally painful to listen to, as is the case with songs like Laffy Taffy and Walk It Out.

Are you sure?  The 2000s were a commercial decade, without a doubt, but I don't really see how the 2010s are any less so.  You're clearly overstating the prevalence of indie rock right now, at least on the mainstream charts.  Much of it, really, is pseudo-indie, i.e. Imagine Dragons and new Coldplay, and is far weaker than bands like Arcade Fire and The Black Keys.

Again, this is a pretty naive and underestimating statement.  I already distance myself quite heavily from current music to the point where I'm predominantly familiar with stuff released in the 80s and 90s but I hardly listen to modern music.  I could listen to my copies of To Pimp a Butterfly, The Magic Whip, and Sometimes I Sit And Think, And Sometimes I Just Sit on a regular basis just for the sake of appreciating music from 2015, but I still end up blasting my albums from the 1980s and 1990s instead because those decades just had a greater variety of classic picks to choose from.


Hm, I fall into the same problem when it comes to current pop music. I try now to find bands on the internet, to help remedy this rather dry era for music. If something comes along in the mainstream that I like, then great. If not, then I'll just stick to underground artists, and artists from the past. I do think things could improve around the late 2010s (probably not much, but it could still be a step up from now). I doubt things will still be bland by 2021, though. I have a feeling it will be the new 1991.

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: ocarinafan96 on 11/10/15 at 9:03 am


You just gave me an heavenly epic flashback of my late middle school and early high school years! 8)

Now after much thought and me thinking about this. Now I understand why you have a strong dislike for 2013 music or onwards, but I hear you blame the year 2013 for a lot of the music we have now. Although I really enjoyed Eminem's "The Marshall Mathers LP 2" Album from that year, which had some great songs, and I liked Justin Timberlake Suit & Tie as well. However, I was confused at first on why you didn't like 2013 but now I know. My question is that when it comes to people who were fans of the mainstream music of the early & mid 90's like the hip-hop, R&B, the pop songs, or whatever. I wonder how they felt about the teenybopper music from the late 90's when Britney Spears, Spice Girls, or many others from that time dominated and changed the face of music after Notorious Big and Tupac's deaths.


My question to you Mqg, do you feel the same way late Gen Xers felt back in 1999 when we were in the peak of the Y2K era music? Cause it seems like now that we are in the peak of the Core 10's Teen Pop Music, and you seem to be pretty fond of music from 2008-2011/2

Subject: Re: Teen pop eras?

Written By: mqg96 on 11/10/15 at 9:17 am


My question to you Mqg, do you feel the same way late Gen Xers felt back in 1999 when we were in the peak of the Y2K era music? Cause it seems like now that we are in the peak of the Core 10's Teen Pop Music, and you seem to be pretty fond of music from 2008-2011/2


I guess you could say yes to an extent on that one. Even though you still have huge hits from Kendrick Lamar, Katty Perry, Drake, Eminem, etc. here and there, but you know in terms of the dominant popularity of teen pop music from the other artists that have been big since the core 2010's began, I get what you're saying. Like the way late X'ers felt about the emergence of Brittany Spears or Spice Girls in the late 90's is how late Y'ers feel about the emergence of Ariana Grande or One Direction in the mid 2010's. Just keep in mind my favorite genre of music is hip hop and R&B, however, when it comes to the mainstream music of other genres you already know I prefer the 2008-2011 ones when the electropop was dominant. Unlike the mainstream music now whether it's either watered down versions or more teenybopper music. Even when I was in my early/core childhood throughout the early 2000's. My dad exposed me to a lot of the more mature early 2000's hip hop/R&B/country/mainstream music and replays of popular 80's-90's music, but I was never exposed to any of that Brittany Spears or Backstreet Boys music, because it was just a huge turn off for both of us. Although my female cousins loved it. Sorry, whether it's teen pop music from the mid 2010's or late 90's, I find all of it overrated.

Check for new replies or respond here...