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Subject: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CBH1989er on 09/16/04 at 4:40 pm

Just wanted to help anyone who doesn't.  (yes I am Christian. I'm a believer and I also believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins) I wanted to share to ppl about how good God is and how much he loves us.  :)  ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 09/16/04 at 5:02 pm

i believe and i'm a christian but i don't believe in trying to convert anyone. your faith (or lack of) is your own. my girlfriend is a wiccan and my best friend is an asatru, i love them as they are.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 09/16/04 at 5:27 pm


Just wanted to help anyone who doesn't.  (yes I am Christian. I'm a believer and I also believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins) I wanted to share to ppl about how good God is and how much he loves us.  :)  ;)


I follow the teachings of Christ, though I am the proud namer of Absorbism.

A lot of people, like yourself, talk about how great God is and how much he loves us. Have you ever felt as though your God hates you? I often feel like God hates me, like I'm doing something to tick him off, and I'm being punished for it. Have you ever felt this way, or something similar? Like God was leaving when things got hard, or that he just didn't care? Lemme know. I guarantee in a week or so Hairspray'll have this on the political board.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 09/16/04 at 5:28 pm

No I don't. Why? I have my reasons but I don't want to get this thread all in an uproar.

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: lebeiw15 on 09/16/04 at 5:31 pm

Yes, I do.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/16/04 at 6:23 pm

I believe in the Goddess and I believe that Hairspray or Chucky will move this thread to the political/religious boards.  ;)




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Junior on 09/16/04 at 6:37 pm

I don't believe, but I am not completely closed off to the idea of Christianity (or any other religion, for that matter). However, if I do become religious again, I will end up being Unitarian Universalist or a more liberal-minded (not neccesarily in the political sense) sect.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Dagwood on 09/16/04 at 6:59 pm


Just wanted to help anyone who doesn't. (yes I am Christian. I'm a believer and I also believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins) I wanted to share to ppl about how good God is and how much he loves us. :) ;)


I believe as you believe. :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/16/04 at 7:18 pm


No I don't. Why? I have my reasons but I don't want to get this thread all in an uproar.

Absolutely Vile

I know what you mean!
;)

I can't answer the poll because there are only two options.  I'm rather agnositic.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/16/04 at 7:29 pm




I follow the teachings of Christ, though I am the proud namer of Absorbism.

A lot of people, like yourself, talk about how great God is and how much he loves us. Have you ever felt as though your God hates you? I often feel like God hates me, like I'm doing something to tick him off, and I'm being punished for it. Have you ever felt this way, or something similar? Like God was leaving when things got hard, or that he just didn't care? Lemme know. I guarantee in a week or so Hairspray'll have this on the political board.


I definitely feel where your coming from, and It's not because God Hates us. It's because he's testing us. The good lord works in mysterious ways, and his goal is to see us happy in the end, and no one has a harder time believing that than me, so don't feel as if I'm some hotshot lucky bastard that's never suffered or gone through truama cause I have. I got pain inside of me that will never go away.

Jesus, think of Jesus and the amount of suffering he had to go through, never forget that.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 09/16/04 at 9:58 pm

I'm not voting on this because I'm somewhere in between. I believe in God, but I don't believe all the BS his fanatical followers spew out. Furthermore, I can't tolerate it when people want to "help" me find my faith or tell me I'm going to burn in hell because I don't believe in their stupid book written by a bunch of cranky old men way back when.


"God and I have a deal: He doesn't tell me how to run my life and I don't tell him how to run the universe."

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/17/04 at 1:05 am

Another one that belongs on the political/religious board.  Not that it bothers me, I just don't want to see anyone's sensitivities unwittingly encroached upon.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 09/17/04 at 1:43 am



I know what you mean!
;)

I can't answer the poll because there are only two options.  I'm rather agnositic.


I'm proudly atheist. I believe in nothing because there's nothing to believe in. That's it. Don't try and save me. :P

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 5:13 am

I'm another believer that this whole "God" idea is the invention of Man from start to finish.  It is the only logical conclusion, after all.


Just wanted to help anyone who doesn't.

I can do very well without your kind of help, thank you very much.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 5:29 am

I definitely believe in God and the power of prayer. :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 5:32 am


I definitely believe in God and the power of prayer. :)

I can't help but wonder how many people prayed for Hurricane Ivan to stay out at sea somewhere...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 5:43 am



I can't help but wonder how many people prayed for Hurricane Ivan to stay out at sea somewhere...


I can't help but wonder how much worse it would have been if no one did.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 6:21 am

Are you serious?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 6:34 am


Are you serious?


No, not in a fanaticle(sp?) way but, I have no problem believing that prayer saved some lives during the storm.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 7:18 am

And it's like this for the rest?

There was a man whose farm was located on the banks of a flood-swollen river.  As the water rose, a neighbor drove up in a Jeep, urging him to leave before the farm was flooded.

"Oh, no," said the man confidently, "God will save me."

The water rose higher, and the man was forced to move into the second story of the farmhouse.  A police boat soon came, and the officers called for the man to hurry and get into their boat.

"Oh, no, that won't be necessary," the man insisted.  "God will save me."

Finally the house was completely engulfed in water, and a Coast Guard helicopter swooped in to rescue the man, now perched on the roof.  Again he refused.  Just then, a huge wave of water swept over the house, and the man drowned.

When he got to heaven, he stormed at the Lord, asking WHY God had let him die when his faith had been so strong.

"What do you mean?" asked the heavenly Father.  "I sent a Jeep, a boat, and a helicopter ... and you wouldn't budge!"

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 7:54 am

WTF gives Philbo ?!?!  All I did was answer (with MY opinion) a question that was posted. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone or make anybody believe what I believe.
So why the fark are you all in my arse about what I believe in!??


And it's like this for the rest?

There was a man whose farm was located on the banks of a flood-swollen river. As the water rose, a neighbor drove up in a Jeep, urging him to leave before the farm was flooded.

"Oh, no," said the man confidently, "God will save me."

The water rose higher, and the man was forced to move into the second story of the farmhouse. A police boat soon came, and the officers called for the man to hurry and get into their boat.

"Oh, no, that won't be necessary," the man insisted. "God will save me."

Finally the house was completely engulfed in water, and a Coast Guard helicopter swooped in to rescue the man, now perched on the roof. Again he refused. Just then, a huge wave of water swept over the house, and the man drowned.

When he got to heaven, he stormed at the Lord, asking WHY God had let him die when his faith had been so strong.

"What do you mean?" asked the heavenly Father. "I sent a Jeep, a boat, and a helicopter ... and you wouldn't budge!"



??? your gonna question what I believe in with a joke?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: RockandRollFan on 09/17/04 at 9:11 am

I was angry at God when my son was murdered but I never have stopped believing in him. While some people can help to spread the word of God, moreso some people hurt God by pushing what they believe on others though....ie: Mormons ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 9:30 am


WTF gives Philbo ?!?! All I did was answer (with MY opinion) a question that was posted. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone or make anybody believe what I believe.
So why the fark are you all in my arse about what I believe in!??

??? your gonna question what I believe in with a joke?

Jeez... some people get so touchy - I just find the incredible optimism of the "power of prayer" brigade so hard to understand in the face of overwhelming evidence that it doesn't change anything.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 09/17/04 at 9:53 am

prayer does nothing to alter the world He gave us. God made the universe and set things in motion. whether we die by a hurricane or eaten by a shark means nothing to him. the natural world is set. what we are suppose to do is look after ourselves and each other and honour God by doing good deeds.

thats how i get by understanding why God does nothing, i rationalised it by what i see. i still believe in Him though.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/17/04 at 9:58 am


And it's like this for the rest?

There was a man whose farm was located on the banks of a flood-swollen river.  As the water rose, a neighbor drove up in a Jeep, urging him to leave before the farm was flooded.

"Oh, no," said the man confidently, "God will save me."

The water rose higher, and the man was forced to move into the second story of the farmhouse.  A police boat soon came, and the officers called for the man to hurry and get into their boat.

"Oh, no, that won't be necessary," the man insisted.  "God will save me."

Finally the house was completely engulfed in water, and a Coast Guard helicopter swooped in to rescue the man, now perched on the roof.  Again he refused.  Just then, a huge wave of water swept over the house, and the man drowned.

When he got to heaven, he stormed at the Lord, asking WHY God had let him die when his faith had been so strong.

"What do you mean?" asked the heavenly Father.  "I sent a Jeep, a boat, and a helicopter ... and you wouldn't budge!"




I've heard this one before.  ;D ;D ;D



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 10:06 am



"power of prayer" brigade


That's not me dude, I'm did not claim to be  part of some "brigade", I don't run around telling everyone that will listen that they need to pray for the world and everybody in it and God will "fix everything". I'm saying I believe in prayer and I believe it works because of something I experienced. As stated before I'm not trying to get anybody to believe what I believe. I was just answering a post.



Jeez... some people get so touchy


It's not so much touchy as it is I'm just not good with confrontation (got me in a LOT of trouble in school ;D) that's why I tend to stay out of the political/religious board. I want NOT to be removed from the board because of something I said.(I like it here) :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: joedeertae on 09/17/04 at 10:15 am


moreso some people hurt God by pushing what they believe on others though....ie: Mormons ::)


Exactly...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Tanya1976 on 09/17/04 at 10:47 am

I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

Tanya

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 12:06 pm


It's not so much touchy as it is I'm just not good with confrontation (got me in a LOT of trouble in school ;D) that's why I tend to stay out of the political/religious board. I want NOT to be removed from the board because of something I said.(I like it here) :)

Sorry.

I guess I'd better make this into another vote for moving this to the politics/relgion board, then :-)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: danootaandme on 09/17/04 at 12:51 pm

What is your definition of God? ???

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 09/17/04 at 2:12 pm




I can't help but wonder how much worse it would have been if no one did.


That arises a question in me: If God knows everything that will happen, before it happens, what is the point of prayer? I have heard from numerous sources, "God know what will happen, and when it will happen". So, what does praying for something do? Does it get him to change his mind? Does it make him lessen everyone's pain, but only to a degree?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/17/04 at 5:23 pm

I am an athiest, however I am not hardcore.

I am open to some 'spiritual practices'(not Church though, *puke*), just for the fun of doing them, however, I don't believe that there is a creator deity.

If I HAD to embrace any religion, it would be Hinduism however. I like their idea of Brahma, the Absolute. Their idea of 'God' is very very different then the Western, Judeo-Christian-Islamic idea. Basically, life, nature, EVERYTHING is made up of a transcending force, hence why in English Brahma is referred to as the 'Abosolute' rather than 'God'.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: RockandRollFan on 09/17/04 at 5:34 pm


I am an athiest, however I am not hardcore.

I am open to some 'spiritual practices'(not Church though, *puke*), just for the fun of doing them, however, I don't believe that there is a creator deity.

If I HAD to embrace any religion, it would be Hinduism however. I like their idea of Brahma, the Absolute. Their idea of 'God' is very very different then the Western, Judeo-Christian-Islamic idea. Basically, life, nature, EVERYTHING is made up of a transcending force, hence why in English Brahma is referred to as the 'Abosolute' rather than 'God'.
That's very interesting, ElDuderino..any books you might suggest?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/17/04 at 6:51 pm




That arises a question in me: If God knows everything that will happen, before it happens, what is the point of prayer? I have heard from numerous sources, "God know what will happen, and when it will happen". So, what does praying for something do? Does it get him to change his mind? Does it make him lessen everyone's pain, but only to a degree?

It is a bit of a paradox, isn't it?  That's why I wrote this parody

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Gecko on 09/18/04 at 1:51 am

I believed in God all of my life - and stopped believing in God at the beginning of this year.  This is a big change.  When you have your faith and have had it all your life, and then you lose it - life is very different.  I wish I could believe and I wish I still had faith in God but I have lost that faith and I don't think I will ever get it back.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/18/04 at 12:52 pm

What makes you stop?

The world is a horrible place? - Hunger? Greed? Violence? Pure Evil is out their?


Own Self Destructions?

Unanswered Prayers? Pain? Pathos? Tragedy? Realization of Crushed Dreams? Unattainable Goals?


What is it?

We are all being Tested......

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/18/04 at 2:50 pm

I can't believe how people can get the idea we are being tested, or that all of this sheesh has some sort of great purpose.

Tested? Tested for what? So millions of people, no billions, suffer, to be "Tested"? If there is a "God" and he feels the need to "test" people, then he sounds unfit for power, because that is arbitrary and cruel.

Also, if there is a God and he has all these powers over everything, he must be the biggest under-achiever of all-time, considering how bad things really are.


Also, what is the point of prayer? If he knows and hears all, wouldn't he already know what we want/feel/need? Or does he want us to pray to stroke his own ego?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/18/04 at 3:08 pm


I am an athiest, however I am not hardcore.

If I HAD to embrace any religion, it would be Hinduism however. I like their idea of Brahma, the Absolute. Their idea of 'God' is very very different then the Western, Judeo-Christian-Islamic idea. Basically, life, nature, EVERYTHING is made up of a transcending force, hence why in English Brahma is referred to as the 'Abosolute' rather than 'God'.


This raises an interesting point that I just started to consider.  None od the eastern religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucionism, Shintoism) are "revealed religions".  The founders of none of them claimed any divine inspiration.  All emerged from the struggles on people seeking the meaning of life, and especially seeking to understand suffering.  Unlike the followers of the three "revealed" religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), believers in these don't consider themselves the chosen people, and as a result all are much more lax when it comes to dogma/doctrine.  They also all have a much more substantial record when it comes to peace.  None has ever tried to justify war on religious grounds (not that their followers have never participated in wars, but unlike Christians and Muslims, none has ever fought "in the name of God".  Nor do any preach eternal damnation for non-believers.  The conclusion I am drawn to is that revewaled religion can be especially dangerous.  

I appreciate the kind offer made at the start of this thread, and will assume it was offered in all sincerity, but I'll pass.


Apricot said



That arises a question in me: If God knows everything that will happen, before it happens, what is the point of prayer? I have heard from numerous sources, "God know what will happen, and when it will happen". So, what does praying for something do? Does it get him to change his mind? Does it make him lessen everyone's pain, but only to a degree?


This is an interesting question, an all knowing and all powerful God and yet many Christians (& Jews & Muslims) believe in free will.  If God knows what will happen, how can I doi anything other that what He already knows I will do, and than, how do I have free will?

Clearly, these are philosophical questions not ment to challange faith but stimulate thinking.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Claude_Prez on 09/18/04 at 5:16 pm

If there is a God, He understands why I don't believe in Him.  Has anyone read "God's Debris" by cartoonist Scott Adams ("Dilbert")?  He calls it a "thought experiment", not his actual belief, but the gist of it is that if an all-powerful God existed, the only thing He wouldn't know--and therefore the only reason to do anything-- is what would happen if He blew Himself up (the big bang?).  And the entire universe is simply the process of God reassembling Himself.  It's pretty cool, actually.





"There ain't no devil; there's just God when He's drunk"  --Tom Waits

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/18/04 at 6:37 pm


I can't believe how people can get the idea we are being tested, or that all of this sh** has some sort of great purpose.

Tested? Tested for what? So millions of people, no billions, suffer, to be "Tested"? If there is a "God" and he feels the need to "test" people, then he sounds unfit for power, because that is arbitrary and cruel.

Also, if there is a God and he has all these powers over everything, he must be the biggest under-achiever of all-time, considering how bad things really are.


Also, what is the point of prayer? If he knows and hears all, wouldn't he already know what we want/feel/need? Or does he want us to pray to stroke his own ego?


It should be rather easy for you to believe that people say that theirs some purpose behind this.

If their isn't then I suggest 80% more or less of the population commmit suicide cause if your gonna live your life a good person and never get anything but heartache, trauma, pathos, and other sheesh on you, their better be a reward at the end,.

And my friend their is.



Jesus did nothing but suffer.....and no one realizes that.


Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/18/04 at 7:01 pm






Jesus did nothing but suffer.....and no one realizes that.




He did nothing but suffer...when He watched Mel Gibson's Passion...groan!
::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/18/04 at 7:16 pm




It should be rather easy for you to believe that people say that theirs some purpose behind this.

If their isn't then I suggest 80% more or less of the population commmit suicide cause if your gonna live your life a good person and never get anything but heartache, trauma, pathos, and other sh** on you, their better be a reward at the end,.

And my friend their is.



Jesus did nothing but suffer.....and no one realizes that.






Why is it easy for me to realize there is a point to this? Your parents have sex, you develop in the womb, your born, you grow and then age and die. I see no great cosmic answer anywhere in that.

And that 'just be a good person' stuff is one of the biggest farces still perpetuated in human society. Who defines what makes you a good person? There are some people sillly enough to think going to Church weekly makes them a 'good person'. I think all a good person is, is somebody who tries to get the most enjoyment they can out of this life, rather than spending all of their time worrying about the next, and preaching to others about it therefore sheeshting upon what little time they have, making them miserable and worried as well.

I will make the decision to be a full-grown man(not many of these around anymore), deal with my own problems and not rely on an imaginary friend, and certainly not harass or belittle other people trying to make them have an imaginary friend. I don't need a pre-determined, packaged, set or morals written by people who were so primitive they didn't bathe on a regular basis, because I have what is called a spine, so I do not need to take the route of the spineless. I will use my own judgement, and my own BRAIN and INTELLECT, which is far more useful than any set of 'morals', to guide my way through life. If you choose not to have a spine, that is fine by me. Just don't dare to try and talk me out of ripping mine out. Have a nice day.

And don't use that 'my friend' crap on me to fool me into thinking you care about anything else but converting me to your religion.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/18/04 at 7:27 pm





Why is it easy for me to realize there is a point to this? Your parents have sex,


They WHAT?
:o

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Absolutely Vile on 09/18/04 at 7:30 pm


Your parents have sex





They WHAT?
:o


They do? No they don't!

Absolutely Vile

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/18/04 at 7:32 pm






They do? No they don't!

Absolutely Vile



:P lol, yeah, funny guys.

Seriously though, I don't know how any of the religious folks will even begin to respond to what I said, I just unleashed it lol.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Dagwood on 09/18/04 at 8:38 pm



Why is it easy for me to realize there is a point to this? Your parents have sex, you develop in the womb, your born, you grow and then age and die. I see no great cosmic answer anywhere in that.

And that 'just be a good person' stuff is one of the biggest farces still perpetuated in human society. Who defines what makes you a good person? There are some people sillly enough to think going to Church weekly makes them a 'good person'. I think all a good person is, is somebody who tries to get the most enjoyment they can out of this life, rather than spending all of their time worrying about the next, and preaching to others about it therefore sheeshting upon what little time they have, making them miserable and worried as well.

I will make the decision to be a full-grown man(not many of these around anymore), deal with my own problems and not rely on an imaginary friend, and certainly not harass or belittle other people trying to make them have an imaginary friend. I don't need a pre-determined, packaged, set or morals written by people who were so primitive they didn't bathe on a regular basis, because I have what is called a spine, so I do not need to take the route of the spineless. I will use my own judgement, and my own BRAIN and INTELLECT, which is far more useful than any set of 'morals', to guide my way through life. If you choose not to have a spine, that is fine by me. Just don't dare to try and talk me out of ripping mine out. Have a nice day.

And don't use that 'my friend' crap on me to fool me into thinking you care about anything else but converting me to your religion.


I am one of those "religous" folks you seem to dislike so much.  Why should it matter to you how people decided to live their lives?  If you find it a waste of time, then don't spend your time that way.  I can understand you not wanting people trying to convert you...just tell them to go away.  Most people get the message.

Just because we believe in God and try to run our lives by His standards doesn't make us spineless.  In fact, it is quite the opposite.  We stand up for what we believe in front of people that ridicule us for our beliefs.  If we were spineless, we wouldn't say a thing to those people.

Don't assume that all Christians care about is converting you.  Christians are just like other people in that some actually care about you as a person just because you are another human being.  While there are some that are out to convert and that is all, that is not the majority of us so please don't generalize all Christians with the few that have obviously left a bad taste in your mouth.


Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/18/04 at 9:13 pm




I am one of those "religous" folks you seem to dislike so much.  Why should it matter to you how people decided to live their lives?  If you find it a waste of time, then don't spend your time that way.  I can understand you not wanting people trying to convert you...just tell them to go away.  Most people get the message.

Just because we believe in God and try to run our lives by His standards doesn't make us spineless.  In fact, it is quite the opposite.  We stand up for what we believe in front of people that ridicule us for our beliefs.  If we were spineless, we wouldn't say a thing to those people.

Don't assume that all Christians care about is converting you.  Christians are just like other people in that some actually care about you as a person just because you are another human being.  While there are some that are out to convert and that is all, that is not the majority of us so please don't generalize all Christians with the few that have obviously left a bad taste in your mouth.






I am sorry if it offended you personally.

I don't hate every Christian, I don't know every Christian. Do I dislike their religion? Yes! But, does that make me have something personal against every Christian out there? No, not at all.

And I am not biased against Christianity. I don't really like religion in general.

I see it as spineless because you are relying completely on someone, whom it is not even proven they exist. There is more proof that they don't exist. That is what I meant.

I realize that not EVERY Christian seeks to convert everyone in sight, but I think a LOT do. So like I have already stated, do not take it personal against you. Harmonica just got me riled up. He came across as very condenscending. I do not like all that 'my friend' stuff. So let me make this clear, I will discuss God/religion on here with religious folk, but I do NOT want your 'help'. Understood?

Now Dagwood, I hope its like you said, and now that I've made it known I don't want to be 'evangelized', people will respect that.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/18/04 at 9:26 pm





I am sorry if it offended you personally.

I don't hate every Christian, I don't know every Christian. Do I dislike their religion? Yes! But, does that make me have something personal against every Christian out there? No, not at all.

And I am not biased against Christianity. I don't really like religion in general.

I see it as spineless because you are relying completely on someone, whom it is not even proven they exist. There is more proof that they don't exist. That is what I meant.

I realize that not EVERY Christian seeks to convert everyone in sight, but I think a LOT do. So like I have already stated, do not take it personal against you. Harmonica just got me riled up. He came across as very condenscending. I do not like all that 'my friend' stuff. So let me make this clear, I will discuss God/religion on here with religious folk, but I do NOT want your 'help'. Understood?

Now Dagwood, I hope its like you said, and now that I've made it known I don't want to be 'evangelized', people will respect that.



I understand what you are saying completely. I knew this woman who was a Baptist. She once asked me, "What church do you go to?" assuming that I was a Christian. I told her, "I don't go to any church because I am a Pagan." She said, "Well, we can change that." EXCUSE YOU?? I wasn't out to try to convert her to my religion and I really expected the same from her. She did try-very subtlely but, naturally it didn't work. I believe that everyone has to find their own path. But I do know with many Christian faiths, trying to convert people is what they are told to do. "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them...." That is why there are missionaries. Personally, I think it is wrong. It is one thing to teach someone what you believe but it is another to try to convert them. Religious beliefs are very PERSONAL!!!




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/18/04 at 9:38 pm

While we're on the subject of God, what happened to the Jews for Jesus topic? Was it deleted for some reason? I had an awesome post in it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/19/04 at 1:03 am





Why is it easy for me to realize there is a point to this? Your parents have sex, you develop in the womb, your born, you grow and then age and die. I see no great cosmic answer anywhere in that.

And that 'just be a good person' stuff is one of the biggest farces still perpetuated in human society. Who defines what makes you a good person? There are some people sillly enough to think going to Church weekly makes them a 'good person'. I think all a good person is, is somebody who tries to get the most enjoyment they can out of this life, rather than spending all of their time worrying about the next, and preaching to others about it therefore sheeshting upon what little time they have, making them miserable and worried as well.

I will make the decision to be a full-grown man(not many of these around anymore), deal with my own problems and not rely on an imaginary friend, and certainly not harass or belittle other people trying to make them have an imaginary friend. I don't need a pre-determined, packaged, set or morals written by people who were so primitive they didn't bathe on a regular basis, because I have what is called a spine, so I do not need to take the route of the spineless. I will use my own judgement, and my own BRAIN and INTELLECT, which is far more useful than any set of 'morals', to guide my way through life. If you choose not to have a spine, that is fine by me. Just don't dare to try and talk me out of ripping mine out. Have a nice day.

And don't use that 'my friend' crap on me to fool me into thinking you care about anything else but converting me to your religion.


You don't believe in God, I'm sure you have your purposes and I can relate to that. Me personally, I know theirs a God, I know theirs a Jesus, but to help you out from where your coming from, I don't believe in Heaven.

You know I believe in God, and I would like it if everyone did, or if they didn't to stop being Evil because of something.

I know what a Good person is, and yes the Bible say's a lot, but I know other "Good" people who don't believe in God, just because they believe in Right and Wrong.

Well My Friend, or my enemy, or my aquaintance, or my person I've said 2 things to on this message board - Most people aren't the believe in "Right or Wrong" type. They have to have meaning, hope and or fear. More fear than Hope. People fear Hell, it'll make them good. People hope for a Heaven it'll make them good.

YOu sound a lot like Marilyn Manson who has told stories of how Everything was made up back in the day to make people good.

Now made up or not I believe it and you don't.

I wanna think with all the hard work, all the sacrifice, and all the "good" things I've done that somehow, someday, it'll all be worth it.  I wanna know that this hatered I feel inside of myself day in a day out is all for a reason, so No I'm not trying to convince you into christianity, I'm just doing my best to know that all the Suffer me, and a lot of other people go through will one day end. Or as in my case never end, but have an answer to that question we all deal with "why?"

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/19/04 at 1:33 am




You don't believe in God, I'm sure you have your purposes and I can relate to that. Me personally, I know theirs a God, I know theirs a Jesus, but to help you out from where your coming from, I don't believe in Heaven.

You know I believe in God, and I would like it if everyone did, or if they didn't to stop being Evil because of something.

I know what a Good person is, and yes the Bible say's a lot, but I know other "Good" people who don't believe in God, just because they believe in Right and Wrong.

Well My Friend, or my enemy, or my aquaintance, or my person I've said 2 things to on this message board - Most people aren't the believe in "Right or Wrong" type. They have to have meaning, hope and or fear. More fear than Hope. People fear Hell, it'll make them good. People hope for a Heaven it'll make them good.

YOu sound a lot like Marilyn Manson who has told stories of how Everything was made up back in the day to make people good.

Now made up or not I believe it and you don't.

I wanna think with all the hard work, all the sacrifice, and all the "good" things I've done that somehow, someday, it'll all be worth it.  I wanna know that this hatered I feel inside of myself day in a day out is all for a reason, so No I'm not trying to convince you into christianity, I'm just doing my best to know that all the Suffer me, and a lot of other people go through will one day end. Or as in my case never end, but have an answer to that question we all deal with "why?"



Sorry, I just don't have to have an answer in my life. And you know what should motivate you to help people out and do good things? Neither punishment or reward, but the simple fact that it makes you feel good to do so.

And nice job of subtly comparing me to Marily Manson therefore trying to guilt trip me into thinking my ways of thinking are flawed because, afterall, Marilyn Manson is 'evil'.

Everything is relative, you don't "know" what is good. There are differing perspectives. In my opinion, a good person is someone who lives for this life not another one imagined, and who trys his best to have a good time without f**king someone over on purpose.

Live for today.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Gecko on 09/19/04 at 2:41 am


Jesus did nothing but suffer.....and no one realizes that.


If you believe in God and Jesus - you know that he suffered. There is a lot of suffering in the world every day, but until it happens to someone you love it really doesn't touch you or mean much to you.  Personal suffering is what hits you.  A lot of people turn to God when this happens to them.  I turned away.  I can't see how a loving God can allow so much suffering in his world - and it's only a question that came up when I saw someone I loved suffering.  A lot of people have tried to answer this for me, but I am yet to be satisfied with any answer.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Dagwood on 09/19/04 at 8:29 am


I am sorry if it offended you personally.


Thanks. :)



I don't hate every Christian, I don't know every Christian. Do I dislike their religion? Yes! But, does that make me have something personal against every Christian out there? No, not at all.

And I am not biased against Christianity. I don't really like religion in general.

I see it as spineless because you are relying completely on someone, whom it is not even proven they exist. There is more proof that they don't exist. That is what I meant.

I realize that not EVERY Christian seeks to convert everyone in sight, but I think a LOT do. So like I have already stated, do not take it personal against you. Harmonica just got me riled up. He came across as very condenscending. I do not like all that 'my friend' stuff. So let me make this clear, I will discuss God/religion on here with religious folk, but I do NOT want your 'help'. Understood?

Now Dagwood, I hope its like you said, and now that I've made it known I don't want to be 'evangelized', people will respect that.


Fair enough.  Thanks for explaining it, and you don't have to worry about me.  I only tell people who ask me about God.  I don't wander the forums trying to convert. :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/19/04 at 2:02 pm




... please don't generalize all Christians with the few that have obviously left a bad taste in your mouth.





Christians taste bad?  I guess that's why they survived the Roman Empire.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/19/04 at 2:32 pm





Sorry, I just don't have to have an answer in my life. And you know what should motivate you to help people out and do good things? Neither punishment or reward, but the simple fact that it makes you feel good to do so.

And nice job of subtly comparing me to Marily Manson therefore trying to guilt trip me into thinking my ways of thinking are flawed because, afterall, Marilyn Manson is 'evil'.

Everything is relative, you don't "know" what is good. There are differing perspectives. In my opinion, a good person is someone who lives for this life not another one imagined, and who trys his best to have a good time without f**king someone over on purpose.

Live for today.


Don't twist around what I say. I didn't try and make you out to be Marilyn Manson, I was just referring to the way he talks about how Satan, God, Jesus, and all of the other stuff were made up a long time ago by some old wisemen to fool people into doing things, and if that's true then it's the greatest holks of all time.

Your right I don't always know what's "good", but I do know what's evil, I do know what's wrong. Not many people do.



If you believe in God and Jesus - you know that he suffered. There is a lot of suffering in the world every day, but until it happens to someone you love it really doesn't touch you or mean much to you.  Personal suffering is what hits you.  A lot of people turn to God when this happens to them.  I turned away.  I can't see how a loving God can allow so much suffering in his world - and it's only a question that came up when I saw someone I loved suffering.  A lot of people have tried to answer this for me, but I am yet to be satisfied with any answer.


I used to feel like you, I hope one day you find your answer, and for the record I hope I find mine too.


Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Dagwood on 09/19/04 at 3:46 pm




Christians taste bad? I guess that's why they survived the Roman Empire.


Ok, that was a baaaad joke....but I did laugh. ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: RockandRollFan on 09/19/04 at 3:52 pm




Ok, that was a baaaad joke....but I did laugh. ;D
Me too ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/19/04 at 7:00 pm

I don't believe in Good and Evil. I believe in Sensible and Stupid.


And it is 'hoax', not holks.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/19/04 at 8:38 pm


I don't believe in Good and Evil. I believe in Sensible and Stupid.


And it is 'hoax', not holks.


Glad to know that with all I put down in my post, you could notice that I'm not the world's best speller. After all what would the world be like without perfect grammar?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/20/04 at 12:17 am


I don't believe in Good and Evil. I believe in Sensible and Stupid.


And it is 'hoax', not holks.

I recently referred to "the yolk of oppression"!
;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/20/04 at 3:08 pm



I recently referred to "the yolk of oppression"!
;D


Those yolks will get you every time, eggs can be very oppresive.

But seriously folks...in addition to what I said above about revealed vrs non-revealed religions, I think we have to admit that any religion can be both positive and negative.  Whatever one's faith, it can be comforting and a source of strength, or it can be oppressive to others, and, especially with revealed religion, lead to feelings of superiority.  I've said this before on another thread, but I'll say it again here.  Believe what you like, but keep your religion out of OUR laws.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/20/04 at 3:39 pm




Those yolks will get you every time, eggs can be very oppresive.

But seriously folks...in addition to what I said above about revealed vrs non-revealed religions, I think we have to admit that any religion can be both positive and negative. Whatever one's faith, it can be comforting and a source of strength, or it can be oppressive to others, and, especially with revealed religion, lead to feelings of superiority. I've said this before on another thread, but I'll say it again here. Believe what you like, but keep your religion out of OUR laws.




Well-said mi compañero.

If my words came across as a bit harsh, I am sorry for that. Even though I still think it is useless, it is someone's own business if they are religious. It doesn't effect me. HOWEVER, as soon as they try to drag it in the public square and legislate morality, THEN it is my business.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 09/20/04 at 7:05 pm

I am agnostic with spiritual leanings. I believe there is a powerful force in nature but don't if there is/what kind of force (non/human form) created it.

I have been impressed by El Duderino's posts so far.  :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/20/04 at 10:24 pm


I am agnostic with spiritual leanings. I believe there is a powerful force in nature but don't if there is/what kind of force (non/human form) created it.


That's about where I stand too.
:)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 09/21/04 at 6:23 am


That's about where I stand too.
:)


That's cool, Maxwell. In that way, it rules nothing out.  ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/21/04 at 6:38 am




That's cool, Maxwell. In that way, it rules nothing out.  ;D

Uh, some of these guys will tell you it rules out heaven because you haven't accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.
:o

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: danootaandme on 09/21/04 at 6:56 am

I guess most of us are in big trouble........  :-\\

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Paul on 09/21/04 at 7:08 am

Nope...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 09/21/04 at 1:00 pm

I quite liked this: THE OFFICIAL GOD FAQ

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/21/04 at 1:08 pm


Nope...

Paul, why do you have to mince words and go on and on and on about stuff?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Paul on 09/21/04 at 2:01 pm



Paul, why do you have to mince words and go on and on and on about stuff?


Er...



(Actually, I like to leave it to the experts...!!)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/21/04 at 3:04 pm


I quite liked this: THE OFFICIAL GOD FAQ


And that was god's answer  ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/21/04 at 3:11 pm

LMAO@OFFICIAL GOD FAQ.

;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/21/04 at 7:51 pm

FAQ.....unknown philosophy is never a fact

Their is a God...can't be scientifcially proven
Their is not a God....can't be scientifically  proven

OAQ  their we go

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/21/04 at 7:58 pm


FAQ.....unknown philosophy is never a fact

Their is a God...can't be scientifcially proven
Their is not a God....can't be scientifically  proven

OAQ  their we go

Well, we ain't never got a photo of the old dude with a long white beard who lives in the sky, and we certainly don't see our dead relatives sitting on clouds playing harps....

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/21/04 at 10:09 pm

Opinion

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 09/22/04 at 12:10 am

I am agnostic with spiritual leanings. I believe there is a powerful force in nature but don't if there is/what kind of force (non/human form) created it.

I have been impressed by El Duderino's posts so far. 


I am an agnostic but also a pagan... it's weird. I would love it if there was a unifying force in nature, and I think that there is but I could never prove it either to myself or to anyone else... so I just keep that thought in my head. There might be, and if there is the chances of any humans hitting the nail on the head about what this power is, are slim to none.

I used to have huge problems with Christianity but I sort of reconciled with them when I realised that I had no problem with Christ... only with the vast majority of his 'followers.' Also, I have a problem with what the religion has become compared to what it may have been. Anyhoo, it's the fundamentalists that I have huge issues with... I'm talking about the kind of people who would take advantage of a Buddhist monastary's hospitality by shacking up with them only to convert them one by one.

In any case, I wish the person who made this pole would have included Agnosticism in the pole.... How can someone be so oblivious as to think that the question of god could ever be as simple as "do you or don't you believe...?" In my opinion, it would be foolish to stubbornly defend either end of that pole, because there simply is no proof either way... If you're an athiest/theist then be one but please don't bother in arguing the question to death, because no one will ever prove anything either way.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 09/22/04 at 2:16 pm




I am an agnostic but also a pagan... it's weird. I would love it if there was a unifying force in nature, and I think that there is but I could never prove it either to myself or to anyone else... so I just keep that thought in my head. There might be, and if there is the chances of any humans hitting the nail on the head about what this power is, are slim to none.

I used to have huge problems with Christianity but I sort of reconciled with them when I realised that I had no problem with Christ... only with the vast majority of his 'followers.' Also, I have a problem with what the religion has become compared to what it may have been. Anyhoo, it's the fundamentalists that I have huge issues with... I'm talking about the kind of people who would take advantage of a Buddhist monastary's hospitality by shacking up with them only to convert them one by one.

In any case, I wish the person who made this pole would have included Agnosticism in the pole.... How can someone be so oblivious as to think that the question of god could ever be as simple as "do you or don't you believe...?" In my opinion, it would be foolish to stubbornly defend either end of that pole, because there simply is no proof either way... If you're an athiest/theist then be one but please don't bother in arguing the question to death, because no one will ever prove anything either way.


As to the existance of God you are, of course, correct.  Nevertheless, a discussion of religion can be enlightening.  While you seem to be well informed and, I suspect, widely read, I'll take the liberty of suggesting that you explore Eastern religions, which also seek what Einstien called the "unified field", the ultimate force of nature.  And while I'm at it I would suggest that the life force is the spiritual equivelant.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 09/22/04 at 5:11 pm


Uh, some of these guys will tell you it rules out heaven because you haven't accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.
:o


Well, Maxwell, I always thought God was the one that chose who goes where not humans. I also believe that God would look into people's hearts and not necessarily just their minds. A person may like the idea and want it but may not neccessarily believe until proven fact. :)

Heaven is an odd concept anyway. I mean, everybody says it is a good place to go before they have even got there.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 09/22/04 at 10:26 pm

I have explored Eastern faiths, indeed, quite in depth. Hinduism, I think, is the most valuable
religion(s) on Earth. The contributions Hindu philosophy has made to other religions and to the spiritual realm in general are indispensable. Reincarnation, Karma, Dharma, and the concept of an eternal spirit (Brahma Negruna) all have their basis in acnient Hindu (Vedic/Aryan) thought. In fact, a significant portion of my own beliefs have their origin in the Vedas.

The religious culture I have chosen to be a part of is Neopaganism, and though I am agnostic in my approach to religion, our pagan holidays, myths, envirocentricity, ... etc, are an important part of my life. If there isn't a higher power, so what, at least I spent my life as a good person with the impulse to do the right thing. I will not have needed any preset moral code created by someone else to validate whether or not I led a good life.

I think I'm beginning to digress so I'll just stop here. Peace out.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/22/04 at 11:05 pm


I have explored Eastern faiths, indeed, quite in depth. Hinduism, I think, is the most valuable
religion(s) on Earth. The contributions Hindu philosophy has made to other religions and to the spiritual realm in general are indispensable. Reincarnation, Karma, Dharma, and the concept of an eternal spirit (Brahma Negruna) all have their basis in acnient Hindu (Vedic/Aryan) thought. In fact, a significant portion of my own beliefs have their origin in the Vedas.

The religious culture I have chosen to be a part of is Neopaganism, and though I am agnostic in my approach to religion, our pagan holidays, myths, envirocentricity, ... etc, are an important part of my life. If there isn't a higher power, so what, at least I spent my life as a good person with the impulse to do the right thing. I will not have needed any preset moral code created by someone else to validate whether or not I led a good life.

I think I'm beginning to digress so I'll just stop here. Peace out.




Great post man. Although I don't believe in God in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense, and I do not want to be part of an organized religion, I do like the ideas put forth in the Vedas.

The Vedas talk about a trasncending self(an 'eternal spirit' if you will), which is part of Brahma(the Absolute). Brahma does not represent a creator being, or something of that nature from my experience. Brahma, the Absolute, is called Absolute in English because Brahma is everything, the universe is brahma, and this eternal spirit McDonald referred to, Brahma Negruna, our soul, is part of Brahma. It is my feeling that we may all be part of the same life force, that perhaps our transcendant selves are all part of one greater being, and each person's life is just a different persepctive of this being. When we die, we return to this state, and come back out again(re-incarnation), it is almost like a well of souls, when you are born, you are dipped out of the well, and then when you die, you are put back in, and naturally, when you are brought back out, although it is still you, you have changed, you have mixed with other elements.

You guys should check ou the subject of genetic memory. I think that everyone has the same collective memory, and perhaps these 'past life experiences' people have, are really these genetically stored memories, everyone has, but for reasons unknown, very few people re-call these.

That is my take on it anyway.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 09/22/04 at 11:21 pm

Genetic memory...

Well, I'm not too big on Jung and the reason is that he was such a racist. But if reincarnation is truth, then genetic memory would be an excellent companion to it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Chrisrj on 09/24/04 at 12:16 am

I used to be somewhat Christian (slightly), but I got tired of the "BS"(for lack of a better word) and just quit.

I do still believe in God enough, but I also believe that God created evolution... otherwise, where'd those first organisms come from?  And why does anything exist anyway?  Seems like the best explanation to me for now...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Davester on 09/24/04 at 3:16 am

  What is/are a god(s)?

  Does anyone have a definitive statement that describes God? If we can establish clearly what we are discussing then perhaps the discussions will take on new value.

  Of course, that doesn't help much. A few thoughts on the subject:

  * A God can be a psychological quirk.

  * I'm a fan of the classic, "God is that than which nothing greater in the Universe can be conceived." I interpret this to mean God=everything. In this sense, the "Universe" becomes the event and arena itself. God becomes the subjective mystery of the whole Universe. From this sense, I can even make heads and tails of the most part of Christianity, but like most of my interpretational methods, such ideas usually are met with resistance to the point of hostility.

  Enough ... for a question to which I have no answer...uh, more later...



 

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 09/24/04 at 5:49 am


   What is/are a god(s)?   


I believe a god is something that you worship. Even pop stars can be classed as gods if you worship them.

That is my definition anyway.  :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CBH1989er on 09/26/04 at 10:04 pm

If u dont believe in God then fine , I said I wanted to help those who wanted to be helped. If u dont want to be helped then y bother to leave such negative comments on this thread??

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 09/26/04 at 10:11 pm


If u dont believe in God then fine , I said I wanted to help those who wanted to be helped. If u dont want to be helped then y bother to leave such negative comments on this thread??



Oh don't worry, that is MY way of helping, you know. Perhaps my 'negative comments' will help somebody else dodge that bullet as well(referring to your 'help').

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 09/26/04 at 11:44 pm





Oh don't worry, that is MY way of helping, you know. Perhaps my 'negative comments' will help somebody else dodge that bullet as well(referring to your 'help').




or put them right in the way of.

Open minded, remember?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: danootaandme on 09/28/04 at 5:41 am


Genetic memory...

Well, I'm not too big on Jung and the reason is that he was such a racist. But if reincarnation is truth, then genetic memory would be an excellent companion to it.


Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.  You will find most great thinkers had some ideas that were
abhorrent, but that isn't a reason to dismiss them.  To dismiss his ideas because of his racism is not any more credible than a racist embracing them, because of his racism.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 09/28/04 at 10:20 am

Good point.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/09/04 at 2:29 pm

Do i believe in God?

Not at all, not in the slightest.  Nope!

I believe in evolution not creation and I believe you are born you, you live, you die, you get eaten by worms...

and as for the comment regarding not leaving negative comments in a forum.  It was a question that asked for a response and no is a negative response so perhaps it shopld say believers only to prevent us non--believers from peeing on the parade.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Dagwood on 10/09/04 at 2:43 pm


and as for the comment regarding not leaving negative comments in a forum. It was a question that asked for a response and no is a negative response so perhaps it shopld say believers only to prevent us non--believers from peeing on the parade.


I think the comment about not leaving negative comments was meant that we don't direct negative comments at other members because they don't believe as we do.  If you read the thread you will find that others have said "no" they don't believe and no one has called that negative.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 10/10/04 at 5:15 am


I am an agnostic but also a pagan... it's weird. I would love it if there was a unifying force in nature, and I think that there is but I could never prove it either to myself or to anyone else... so I just keep that thought in my head. There might be, and if there is the chances of any humans hitting the nail on the head about what this power is, are slim to none.

I used to have huge problems with Christianity but I sort of reconciled with them when I realised that I had no problem with Christ... only with the vast majority of his 'followers.' Also, I have a problem with what the religion has become compared to what it may have been. Anyhoo, it's the fundamentalists that I have huge issues with... I'm talking about the kind of people who would take advantage of a Buddhist monastary's hospitality by shacking up with them only to convert them one by one.

In any case, I wish the person who made this pole would have included Agnosticism in the pole.... How can someone be so oblivious as to think that the question of god could ever be as simple as "do you or don't you believe...?" In my opinion, it would be foolish to stubbornly defend either end of that pole, because there simply is no proof either way... If you're an athiest/theist then be one but please don't bother in arguing the question to death, because no one will ever prove anything either way.


I can appreciate this post, McDonald. The irony with Christianity is that there are 'channels' to God (Vicars, Ministers, Bishops, Archbishops and Pope) but it doesn't seem to be better off as a result. These people seem to be there to confuse the masses, not enlighten them and I believe that is why people who like the idea (maybe me and you?  ???) are put off by the whole thing. Besides, the Spanish inquisition and Galileo are events in history that further my disinterest in religion. A lot of countries/terrorists have fought for their cause in the name of religion and I just wonder whether it is something worth fighting over.  ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/10/04 at 1:35 pm

Somebody mentioned if there is a God s/he would look into the hearts of people as wll as the minds.  I am a good person who lives life to the law.  I have never hurt anybody and I never would.  I belive in peace, ove and unity yet I don't believe in God.  Should I go to hell if it exists?

I may be a none believer but that doesn't make me a bad person!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/10/04 at 1:38 pm


Somebody mentioned if there is a God s/he would look into the hearts of people as wll as the minds.  I am a good person who lives life to the law.  I have never hurt anybody and I never would.  I belive in peace, ove and unity yet I don't believe in God.  Should I go to hell if it exists?

I may be a none believer but that doesn't make me a bad person!

What the Christian fundamentalists say is: have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior?  If not, to blazes you go!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/10/04 at 1:47 pm

Suicide bombers have a religion and have accepted their saviours.  If they go to heaven on that basis I wanna go to hell.

Religion stinks of hypocracy.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 10/10/04 at 1:54 pm


Suicide bombers have a religion and have accepted their saviours.  If they go to heaven on that basis I wanna go to hell.

Religion stinks of hypocracy.

The propaganda the terrorist organizations feed to suicide bombers is a distortion of Islamic faith.  The Koran does not condone the murder of innocent people.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/10/04 at 2:11 pm

I know that, BUT... it is still being claimed that they are doing what they do under the umbrella of faith and religion.  I also understand that it isn't right to kill people in the name of a war, holy or not but it still happens.  Does patriotism over rule religion?  mmm, maybe all soldiers are non believers. *shrugs*

I just think that religion is filled with loop holes and get out clauses.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 10/10/04 at 4:44 pm




I can appreciate this post, McDonald. The irony with Christianity is that there are 'channels' to God (Vicars, Ministers, Bishops, Archbishops and Pope) but it doesn't seem to be better off as a result. These people seem to be there to confuse the masses, not enlighten them and I believe that is why people who like the idea (maybe me and you?  ???) are put off by the whole thing. Besides, the Spanish inquisition and Galileo are events in history that further my disinterest in religion. A lot of countries/terrorists have fought for their cause in the name of religion and I just wonder whether it is something worth fighting over.  ::)


It's not worth it. There have been countless 'leaders' out there who wanted people to believe it was something to fight over because it offered to the leader a powerful element of control over his followers. A leader can get things done if he tells his followers that god wants it done. Likewise, a president can get elected if he promises his religious base that he'll be doing god's work.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/10/04 at 4:59 pm

How to manipulate a nation huh.... if you can't win them with your politics cast them to the fires of hell that'll bring em round!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 10/10/04 at 5:27 pm


I can appreciate this post, McDonald. The irony with Christianity is that there are 'channels' to God (Vicars, Ministers, Bishops, Archbishops and Pope) but it doesn't seem to be better off as a result. These people seem to be there to confuse the masses, not enlighten them and I believe that is why people who like the idea (maybe me and you?  ???) are put off by the whole thing. Besides, the Spanish inquisition and Galileo are events in history that further my disinterest in religion. A lot of countries/terrorists have fought for their cause in the name of religion and I just wonder whether it is something worth fighting over.  ::)


That's almost the whole reason I started Absorbism... although other people seem to have had the same idea  ;).

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 10/10/04 at 6:06 pm




That's almost the whole reason I started Absorbism... although other people seem to have had the same idea ;).


Please, elaborate a bit further on Absorbism.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 10/10/04 at 6:39 pm


Somebody mentioned if there is a God s/he would look into the hearts of people as wll as the minds.  I am a good person who lives life to the law.  I have never hurt anybody and I never would.  I belive in peace, ove and unity yet I don't believe in God.  Should I go to hell if it exists?

I may be a none believer but that doesn't make me a bad person!


Yes, I mentioned this aspect, Cheeky Ferret and I believe it to it's entirety. What would a loving God find satisfying in torturing people who have lived a decent life on Earth, regardless of 'faith'? I believe that religion uses antithesis a lot (good/evil, angels/demons, perfection/sin . . .) and so naturally, if there is a good place to go to when we die, you can bet there's a bad one as well).

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/10/04 at 6:48 pm




Yes, I mentioned this aspect, Cheeky Ferret and I believe it to it's entirety. What would a loving God find satisfying in torturing people who have lived a decent life on Earth, regardless of 'faith'? I believe that religion uses antithesis a lot (good/evil, angels/demons, perfection/sin . . .) and so naturally, if there is a good place to go to when we die, you can bet there's a bad one as well).


It's hypocracy to the hilt.  If I'm going to be punished because I don't believe then I may as well be a bad person if I am going south either way!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 10/10/04 at 6:55 pm


It's hypocracy to the hilt.  If I'm going to be punished because I don't believe then I may as well be a bad person if I am going south either way!


Absolutely. Essentially what Christianity is saying is morality (despite it giving us the ten commandments as a guide to proper living) is no means of survival. The Ten Commandments is known as 'The Mosaic Law' (from Moses) and apparently (according to the religion I was involved with) was defunct when Jesus got nailed up - the simple law 'treat others as you would like to be treated yourself' (from Jesus's  Sermon on the mount) was the replacement.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 10/11/04 at 1:17 pm

I am a Philosophy student, and as such have learnt a friggin ton about god  ::)

However i still Believe, because there is no logical explanation for how things came to be.
I don't believe in any sort of religion and i don't believe that jesus christ died on the cross for our sins, IN MY OPINIO (before i get yelled at lol) most holy books are just a load of b/s.. of course many people believe every word they say, and some slightly smarter people take them with a pinch of salt. They are good for guiding people in there life.

But yeah, a god is the only logical explanation for why things 'are' and even that isn't very logical.

But it will do for now  ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 10/11/04 at 1:35 pm

Evolution is a logical breakdown of how things got to be where that are and how it probably was in the very beginning, but there is still that one question of where everything came from to begin with...? I think a higher power had something to do with it. However, I think that any religion man has ever made is probably far off from the truth because we have this egocentricity, that everything must be the way we see it. What if there are creatures in other worlds wha are as intelligent if not more intelligent than we? What do they have to say on the matter? Of course... they would as much a chance of getting it right as anyone here would. If Earth and humans are the main focus of creation and god then why make other planets to float around the sun with us? Why make worm-like creatures that may have existed on Mars? If we ever build a spacecraft that can travel at many times the speed of light, then maybe we will be able to check out one of the neighbouring galaxies. Who knows?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 10/11/04 at 3:29 pm

I'd agree with all of that, McD... except the bit about a higher power: 'cause all that's doing is taking a simple "where did stuff come from?" and turning it into a "where did something powerful and clever enough to make that stuff come from?", which is adding several magnitudes of complexity into the system.  Which seems even more unlikely to me.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/12/04 at 8:54 am

Even a blind man could see that the theory of evolution is far more logical than the theory of creationism.  Science is a more convincing arguement that the Bible!!!!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 10/12/04 at 9:18 am

Dunno if you were referring to me there man.

But just to clarify, i believe evolution, like god didnt make the world or anything, in fact i can't think of much it would have done, however the existance of god is impossible not to prove, impossible to prove as well.. may as well keep an open mind though.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/12/04 at 9:27 am

If I meant you I would have said so!  and I am not a man  ;)

I won't sit on the fence.  I don't think there is a God.  I can't prove there isn't one and they can't prove there is one but in all honesty my arguement is stronger looking at it logically.  Besides, there are so many religions and cults believing in different things that it is beyond ridicuolus.

I may start my own cult.  Join me?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Hairspray on 10/12/04 at 11:29 am

I wish there were an option for "Maybe,” perhaps because I'm open to the possibility if presented with evidence.

See, I consider myself agnostic.

Thomas Henry Huxley (1825 – 1895) came up with the word ‘agnostic’ while searching for a term to describe his own beliefs. He did not consider himself “an atheist, a theist, a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; a Christian…” and while he had much in common with freethinkers, he wanted a term to describe himself more accurately. His difference with the people who gave themselves the above labels was that he did not feel certain of his knowledge- or ‘gnosis’- that he “had successfully solved the problem of existence.”

His ideal was that everyone should be able to give a reason for his faith, or simply not claim it as his own. He said it this way: “In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable”. To put it into brief, modern words, he might have said, “Don’t claim it if you cannot explain it”.

Huxley understood and acepted that the new term would have different meanings depending on the understanding and intellect of the individual. Furthermore, he knew that the meaning for each individual would change as time goes on, to incorporate new findings in understanding or in science. He said, “That which is unproved today may be proved, by the help of new discoveries, tomorrow.”

Huxley defined agnositicism as follows, and this is perhaps, the truest definition of the term today: “… it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.” It is not merely a matter of whether or not one knows if God exists, but it is a matter of whether one can objectively define his belief, whether in God or in anything else.

Huxley was a gifted speaker, and was known, in the course of his many debates, to quietly state that he knew nothing about the supernatural about which his opponents claimed firm belief, then, somewhat louder, to add, “And neither do you.”

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Davester on 10/12/04 at 11:51 am


Even a blind man could see that the theory of evolution is far more logical than the theory of creationism.  Science is a more convincing arguement that the Bible!!!!


  Could not God also act through the scientific process?

 

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/12/04 at 1:39 pm

Don't be ridiculous.  Evolution of mankind has given us our scientists of today.  If God had a hand in it we would have been emailing each other in the 17th century.  Logically, all components to produce all that is available today has been available for centuries.  It was the evolving of the brain that got us where we are!!!! 

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Bobby on 10/12/04 at 6:00 pm

It sounds like Thomas Huxley was a clever bloke, Hairspray - and why? Because he didn't think he was clever enough to understand something that was taken for granted.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 10/13/04 at 12:38 am


Don't be ridiculous.  Evolution of mankind has given us our scientists of today.  If God had a hand in it we would have been emailing each other in the 17th century.  Logically, all components to produce all that is available today has been available for centuries.  It was the evolving of the brain that got us where we are!!!! 




Off subject in a way related to in another

Have you ever seen John Carpenter's "Halloween"

A line delivered by Dr. Sam Loomis played by Donald Pleasence that read, "Samhain isn't witches, Ghost, or Goblins...it's the conscious human mind"

What you said sort of reminded me of that

However? where did the concepts of Good and evil come from?
Why do I speak English?


You know what keeps me from being right and me from Being wrong?  Do you know what keeps you from being right and you from being wrong?

Why?

and as long as Why? exist then this debate will go on....so I'm looking at say....Forever

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Cheeky Ferret on 10/13/04 at 4:28 pm

If you read Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson that will tell you why you speak English... it will also tell you about disappearing and extising languages. 

Sorry, I never saw Halloween...

I think the concept of good over evil comes from learning from the history books, learning from past mistakes.  Or not learning in someone's case... mentioning no names George W Bush  :D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/13/04 at 10:30 pm





Have you ever seen John Carpenter's "Halloween"

A line delivered by Dr. Sam Loomis played by Donald Pleasence that read, "Samhain isn't witches, Ghost, or Goblins...it's the conscious human mind"



It has been many years since I have seen that movie but I am impress that they used the Wiccan name of Halloween-Samhain.




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 10/13/04 at 10:38 pm




It has been many years since I have seen that movie but I am impress that they used the Wiccan name of Halloween-Samhain.




Cat


Unfortunately noone ever pronounces it right, and if my memory serves me correctly, they didn't in Halloween.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/13/04 at 10:40 pm




Unfortunately noone ever pronounces it right, and if my memory serves me correctly, they didn't in Halloween.



To tell you the truth, I can't pronouce it, either.  :-[



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 10/13/04 at 10:48 pm

If my memory serves me right, it is pronounced sam-wee, is it not?

I am a bit more familiar with Celtic pronunciation than most though, I don't know any Gaelic, but I have been learning Cymraeg(Welsh).

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/13/04 at 10:58 pm


If my memory serves me right, it is pronounced sam-wee, is it not?

I am a bit more familiar with Celtic pronunciation than most though, I don't know any Gaelic, but I have been learning Cymraeg(Welsh).



I have a book that pronounces it sow-en (had to look it up)




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 10/13/04 at 10:59 pm


If my memory serves me right, it is pronounced sam-wee, is it not?

I am a bit more familiar with Celtic pronunciation than most though, I don't know any Gaelic, but I have been learning Cymraeg(Welsh).


on a more serious note, what words do we pronounce right?

Half the nation say's HAR VARD  when in reality it's  HA vard  I don't know if I wrote that out right but I know how to say it right.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 10/13/04 at 11:01 pm

What if we're just a science experiment?

Seriously, it is so hard to speculate, saying that is just as valid(or invalid) as saying it is all done by a benevolent creator being.

What if existence is just the fractured conciousness of one greater entity, and we are all, therefore, dreams?





I have a book that pronounces it sow-en (had to look it up)




Cat



Had to look it up? What kind of Wiccan do you call yourself?  :P





on a more serious note, what words do we pronounce right?

Half the nation say's HAR VARD  when in reality it's  HA vard  I don't know if I wrote that out right but I know how to say it right.


The Pronunciation thing is a good point also. And I DO say 'pro-nun-see-ation' not 'pro-noun-see-ation'.  :P But, that is because I am an elitist liberal...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/13/04 at 11:06 pm



Had to look it up? What kind of Wiccan do you call yourself?   :P




One who is learning



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 10/13/04 at 11:09 pm




One who is learning



Cat



I know I was just playing.

Wicca is a nice religion, my cousin's wife is Wicca.

I can't beleive how ignorant some people are about it...

I think it contributes a lot more positive energy to the universe than, say, Christianity or Islam...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/13/04 at 11:25 pm





I know I was just playing.

Wicca is a nice religion, my cousin's wife is Wicca.

I can't beleive how ignorant some people are about it...

I think it contributes a lot more positive energy to the universe than, say, Christianity or Islam...


Thank you. I know a lot of people have misconceptions about it-because they don't understand (and probably don't want to understand) it. I am really hoping that I am educating people here on the message boards just a little about it if they don't already know what it is about. So maybe if in their "real" lives (as oppose to their "internet" lives) if they meet someone who says they are a Pagan, Wiccan, or Witch, they won't automatically think devilworshipper.

Bright blessings


Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 10/14/04 at 3:10 pm



Cat, I was talking to some people about this exact thing.  Hope you don't mind, but I used you and another of my "internet" friends as examples. :)




Nope, not at all-just as long as you say nice things about me.  ;D ;)




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 10/14/04 at 4:00 pm





I think it (Wicca) contributes a lot more positive energy to the universe than, say, Christianity or Islam...


(Wicca inserted by me)

A while ago I asserted that "revealed" religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are dangerous because they all claim to speak in the name of God.  Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus etc do not.  They propose ways of living and explanations for how things are without claiming to be God's chosen people and any such nonsense.  I see "religion" as one's code of behavior, and not as a set of dogmas.  The Wiccan slogan "do what you will, harm none" is the one I like best.  And if there is a God, my approach is to leave himn/her/it alone in the hopes that he/she/it will leave me alone.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: HeartsAfire on 12/05/04 at 6:34 pm

Wow... I am enjoying reading some of these older threads and "hearing" the different thought processes of those on these boards.  :)


IMO, R & R Fan & Dagwood both brought up some good points.

Quote:
While some people can help to spread the word of God, moreso some people hurt God by pushing what they believe on others though

Well said about people pushing their beliefs on others, R&RFan.  I have encountered Christians who have approached others with a condescending attitude; almost talking down to them… and in some cases, turned some off on church, their beliefs, etc.  I do not believe this was what God intended.

I am sorry to hear about your son. :-( 


Quote:
Christians are just like other people in that some actually care about you as a person just because you are another human being.  While there are some that are out to convert and that is all, that is not the majority of us so please don't generalize all Christians with the few that have obviously left a bad taste in your mouth.

Agreed, Dagwood. 

I too, believe in God & Jesus Christ…and that Jesus took my punishment on the cross.  However…I would never try to force anyone to share my beliefs  (I have encountered some who have taken this route, which was a huge turn off and made me feel rather uncomfortable). I work as a secretary at a local Christian university and while it is a wonderful, warm atmosphere and prayers are plentiful… no one takes the forceful route or behaves in a snobby, condescending manner; nor adopts the “You’re going to hell if you don’t do this” attitude.  I would never point fingers or make someone feel as I did when someone spoke to me in that manner.  I am me…you are you… And I love and respect everyone in my life for who they are; whatever they believe.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: JamieMcBain on 12/05/04 at 6:39 pm


I'm not voting on this because I'm somewhere in between. I believe in God, but I don't believe all the BS his fanatical followers spew out. Furthermore, I can't tolerate it when people want to "help" me find my faith or tell me I'm going to burn in hell because I don't believe in their stupid book written by a bunch of cranky old men way back when.


"God and I have a deal: He doesn't tell me how to run my life and I don't tell him how to run the universe."


I am with you on the "fanatical followers", I am Roman Catholic, but they still scare the crap out of me, especially Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/05/04 at 8:45 pm

I really honestly think Pat Robertson is the anti christ

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 12/05/04 at 11:03 pm


I really honestly think Pat Robertson is the anti christ


Then what does that Make Al Franken?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/05/04 at 11:26 pm

My answer is a definite YES.

Why....Because I know,in my heart,He has gotten me through the darkest times in my life.

I was a very sick infant when I was born...I was not supposed to live to see my school years...my doctors were dumbfounded that I pulled through! Yes I was a fighter,but that strength certainly did not come from my alcoholic and drug addicted mother, nor my boozing and compulsive gambler dad.

It came from others in my life,who introduced me to Christianity. In God and Jesus I found love....and acceptance.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 12/06/04 at 4:08 am

Ah yes. You guys were referring to "Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myers" which was the sixth edition of the series, and one of the very best. As for it's accuracy....  :o

This movie suggests that Samhain was a Celtic god (not at all true). Also that the Futhark (the runic alphabet) was something Celtic (which it wasn't, it was Germanic. In fact, the early Anglo-Saxon language was written in runic before the Latin alphabet was adopted). Other than that, I like that movie. Best one next to the original.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 12/06/04 at 4:21 am

My beliefs have evolved into complete agnosticism. I consider myself a part of the neopagan religious subculture because it was the culture I was a part of when I first realised my agnosticism, and I think it is beautiful and fulfilling even if it is wrong. I can't say that there is/are (a) god(s), so I don't much care anymore. I can say that may ancestors did exist at one time and know so as a fact. Therefore, I think ancestor reverence is very sensible. The concept of sacrifice is constant, so I think that is also sensible even if it is merely in the name of tradition. I think the sabbats and their surrounding fanfare are beautiful things and participate for little reason other than to honour tradition, and to commune with others and enjoy myself, reveling in the ornate nature of the celebration.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/04 at 4:39 am

Alcoholica wrote
I really honestly think Pat Robertson is the anti christ


Then what does that Make Al Franken?

The Frankenchrist

http://www.lyred.com/covers/dead_kennedys_-_frankenchrist.jpg

;D ;D ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/04 at 4:43 am


I really honestly think Pat Robertson is the anti christ


A greedy business executive in bed with the forces of evil and preening under the guise of preacherman is most definitely a good candidate.  The term "anti-christ" has come to mind many times when I have seen PR doing his number.

However, I think the true anti-christ just might be Karl Rove!
:o

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/04 at 4:45 am


My beliefs have evolved into complete agnosticism. I consider myself a part of the neopagan religious subculture because it was the culture I was a part of when I first realised my agnosticism, and I think it is beautiful and fulfilling even if it is wrong. I can't say that there is/are (a) god(s), so I don't much care anymore. I can say that may ancestors did exist at one time and know so as a fact. Therefore, I think ancestor reverence is very sensible. The concept of sacrifice is constant, so I think that is also sensible even if it is merely in the name of tradition. I think the sabbats and their surrounding fanfare are beautiful things and participate for little reason other than to honour tradition, and to commune with others and enjoy myself, reveling in the ornate nature of the celebration.

Hmmm...interesting perspective there.  I'll have to chew that over awhile.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 9:37 am

LMAO i heard that one as well.. There are many arguments in our family because me and my mother are Roman Catholic, My father is Church of England, My Grand father was raised a southern baptist but is kinda more moderate now, however retains some it.. my grandmother is an (stop me if i get this wrong) Episcopalian??? and other members of the family are freakin Pat Robinson loving nuts. I have a big family and it stretches all across the mid-west, needless to say there are gonna be a few religious nuts.

But yes i was informed that me and my mother, and i suppose father.. weren't Christians.. we were just heathens... This was some demeted alchoholic cousin.. so i pointed him in the direction of the horse shoe toss.. i jest.. but yeah and this was from a member of my own family :o

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 10:56 am

I guess i am more Episcopalian however i am still considering converting to Judaism.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 12/06/04 at 12:46 pm


... converting to Judaism.

Did you hear the one about the guy who was considering converting to Judaism?  He changed his mind after a tip-off ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 12:48 pm

LOL..

As a reform Jew, the 'tip off' isn't needed

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 12/06/04 at 12:49 pm

Ah... they're taking short-cuts, then

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 12:50 pm

Ba dom Tsh

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/04 at 2:29 pm


Did you hear the one about the guy who was considering converting to Judaism?  He changed his mind after a tip-off ;)

I'm not Jewish, but I got the tip-off anyway, like a lot of American boys do!
;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Leo Jay on 12/06/04 at 2:51 pm

Tricky question to answer, because God is perceived in different ways.  The God I might 'believe' in, is different than 'God' as conceived by someone else.  It's interesting how common it is for people to anthropomorphize God, perceiving it as 'benevolent', 'vindictive', 'apathetic'... or as some external force acting upon things.  Or some force that favors their own cause... their own nation, their own football team... their species, for that matter. Also interesting how common it is for people to express anger at God even as they argue for its non-existence  ???  i.e. "If God exists, why did he let my wife die?".  Personally, I don't think it's possible to accurately perceive God, since it's bigger than everything and yet is everything, but as long as one's working perception of God is empowering to oneself and others, I can't see that it really matters...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/06/04 at 6:13 pm

I voted no because, while I believe in forces beyond the comprehension of logic,  reason, and science, I can't buy into the god of the Cistine Chapel touching Adam with the gift of life.  To do so is to buy into creationism, or its newer, politically more correct version, intelligent design and a whole bunch of other crap.  The notion of God suggests revealed religion, which I think has been a scoge on the human race and a major cause of untold cruelty, horror, injustice...

Put me down as the insomniac agnostic who stays awake nights woundering if there is a Dog. ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 6:15 pm

I lay at night and wonder about the 'Dog' as well Carlos.. but then he usually sits up and i see he's fine  ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 12/06/04 at 6:28 pm


I added in bold what you forgot ;) ^^


Thank you, thank you, thank you.  Without the Dyslecsic
I lay at night and wonder about the 'Dog' as well Carlos.. but then he usually sits up and i see he's fine ;)


Our cats jump up on the bed so we're sure.  Glad your Dog is fine.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 12/06/04 at 6:33 pm

Out of curiosity.. do the cats ever bring home things bigger than them.. I was incredibly impressed my buddys cat bought home a sparrow hawk.. although i felt bad for the bird i was incredibly impressed with the cat. Just in case you hadn't realised, a sparrow hawk is much bigger than a cat, has freakin talons and kills stuff.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: danootaandme on 12/06/04 at 6:50 pm

I have been thinking over this god thing and of course it all depends on the
definition of "god"  If he is the all knowing, loving, vengeful, paternalistic,
judgemental, all-caring, whatever way you want to see him as espoused in the
differing Christian-Judeo traditions by property driven, mysoginistic, menopausal, trussed up men
posing as spiritual leaders, I would have to say ....no.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 12/06/04 at 7:13 pm


I have been thinking over this god thing and of course it all depends on the
definition of "god"  If he is the all knowing, loving, vengeful, paternalistic,
judgemental, all-caring, whatever way you want to see him as espoused in the
differing Christian-Judeo traditions by property driven, mysoginistic, menopausal, trussed up men
posing as spiritual leaders, I would have to say ....no.

There is such a thing as male menopause, that's why all those old rich guys buy big sports cars and shop around for lemon tart (that is, the blonde trophy wife).

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 12/06/04 at 8:42 pm


I am with you on the "fanatical followers", I am Roman Catholic, but they still scare the crap out of me, especially Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson.
As a Christian since 1980,IMHO,Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are extremely biased against anyone who does not fit their 'holier than thou' model....Falwell is vehemently anti-gay. When Jesus said 'LOVE ONE ANOTHER' he did not leave anyone out....there are churches that accept gays and lesbians into their congregations...Which IMHO is the Christ-like way!

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 01/22/05 at 5:55 pm


Please, elaborate a bit further on Absorbism.


It's been awhile, didn't see the question.

Absorbism states that you may believe anything you want as long as you do not:

1. Promote hate
2. Promote causing others any type of pain
3. Blind yourself to new ideas and restrict the ability to change your mind about a belief

If possible, you also want to try to adopt at least one belief of every culture you can think of.

I've based off of many, but any time I get a good amount of ideas, it gets added to my custom name. You can see which religions influence me the most by checking it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 01/22/05 at 6:33 pm


Out of curiosity.. do the cats ever bring home things bigger than them.. I was incredibly impressed my buddys cat bought home a sparrow hawk.. although i felt bad for the bird i was incredibly impressed with the cat. Just in case you hadn't realised, a sparrow hawk is much bigger than a cat, has freakin talons and kills stuff.



I know this is a bit off-topic but to answer your question-our cats are indoor cats so they never bring home anything-for which I am very grateful. The most they do is play with fake mice that we have that is full of catnip.


A dog thinks: These people feed me, take care of me, love me. Therefore they must be God.
A cat thinks: These people feed me, take care of me, love me. Therefore I must be God.  ;)



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alchoholica on 01/22/05 at 6:37 pm

LOL.. Scott Adams illustrates Cat's so well with Catbert dontcha think..

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 01/22/05 at 9:00 pm


Have you ever been told by a "Christian" that you are NOT really "Christian" because you're Catholic?  I was baptised & raised Catholic and when people ask me what religion I am, that's what I usually say.  I actually had a guy start lecturing me when I was working telling me that I'm not "Christian" and am going straight south when I die because "Catholics aren't Christian and only Christians go to heaven" ::)


No offense but I've had Catholics tell me just the opposite. Now granted I have a lot of friends that are catholics, and I think that we're all God's children.  I say it doesn't matter what denomiation you are, you love God, and want to live your life for him..that's what really matters.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 01/22/05 at 10:40 pm


No offense but I've had Catholics tell me just the opposite. Now granted I have a lot of friends that are catholics, and I think that we're all God's children.  I say it doesn't matter what denomiation you are, you love God, and want to live your life for him..that's what really matters.


You're on my page there, Harmonica. I never liked denominations. But then, I never liked organized religion.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Mergal on 01/23/05 at 5:03 pm

I definitely believe there's a God since I'm a Christian, and that the Bible is true but unlike many Christians, I try not to analyze the Bible too much and treat it as symbolism or else it's just way too confusing.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: goodsin on 01/24/05 at 12:11 pm


   Could not God also act through the scientific process?

I think god could, in my perception of god. I understand god as the underlying motive force that seems to drive the universe (nature if you like), which brings up an inconsistency between myself & some of my colleagues that are members of organised religions.
A colleague of mine, who is a Jehovah's Witness, claims that 'creation' and 'evolution' are diametrically opposed, and that if you don't believe in creation, you don't believe in god. On the other hand, I feel that evolution is an action of my god, and I know I do believe in her. Just shows the different perceptions, I suppose. One question this particular chap doesn't ever answer directly is "If only 144,000 people will be allowed into heaven, what will happen to the other JW's over that number when they die?"

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 01/24/05 at 12:41 pm

I think Dogma made a good point in basically saying that religion and belief are bullshhh, all you need is an idea and you're set. Of course, the fact that Kevin Smith is a practising Catholic makes the thesis of his film a bit strange, but as the typical New Jerseyite would say... "fukkin-A!"

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: goodsin on 01/24/05 at 12:52 pm


but I have been learning Cymraeg(Welsh).

Prynhawn/ bore dda. Sut rydych chi'n heddw, Dude? Maen gas gyda fi cymraeg, chwerch annwyl yn ysgol... (sorry, can't remember much Welsh spelling, so hopefully this is spelt OK!)

And Philbo, great parody, but "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" is by The Clash, rather than The Undertones, unless there's something I don't know....

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 01/24/05 at 1:35 pm


I think Dogma made a good point in basically saying that religion and belief are bullshhh, all you need is an idea and you're set. Of course, the fact that Kevin Smith is a practising Catholic makes the thesis of his film a bit strange, but as the typical New Jerseyite would say... "fukkin-A!"


Speak for yourself on the New Jersey thing, I got friends their.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Miss_Foxy on 03/24/05 at 3:55 pm

i do and i don't belive in god.somthing tells me i should belive in god but i belive in the goddess alittle more.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Apricot on 03/24/05 at 4:13 pm


i do and i don't belive in god.somthing tells me i should belive in god but i belive in the goddess alittle more.



Whatever you think is right.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Mistress Leola on 03/24/05 at 4:56 pm


Whatever you think is right.


Yep, whatever works for you. 

I don't believe that 144,000 people are getting into 'Heaven', but why should I disrespect anyone who feels that way?  If it works for them, fine.  It doesn't affect my life negatively if they think I'm a sinner headed for damnation -- obviously, it's empowering for them to think that way.  What do I get from demeaning them for what they believe?  Except the chance to behave in the same manner that I claim is offensive when they do it?  Okay...

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: jiminy on 03/24/05 at 5:04 pm



Jesus, think of Jesus and the amount of suffering he had to go through, never forget that.
crucification was the standard form of capitol punishment in Jesus's day, many thousands met the same fate. I voted yes, I have no way of knowing if either answer is correct

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/24/05 at 5:57 pm


And Philbo, great parody, but "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" is by The Clash, rather than The Undertones, unless there's something I don't know....

If you have a look at the comments, you'll see the answer to that one... it's purely me not being able to read along a line of dots on the CD cover.  And thanks, I quite like that parody, too :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/26/05 at 11:22 pm

110% of the problem is that people give God human qualities.

God is probably neither Male or Female.....from a hypothesis I state that most people think of the Christian God(pollitically correct, have to be on this board) because Jesus was called the son, and Mary was a woman. Therefore from the human standpoint people put two and two together and God = male.

The bible cleary states in Genises that Man does not mean male....it says and if I have, which I probably will,  I'll go get my bible to quote it word for word.  But anyway something along the lines of, "God created man. He made them both male and female"

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/28/05 at 2:48 pm


110% of the problem is that people give God human qualities.

God is probably neither Male or Female.....from a hypothesis I state that most people think of the Christian God(pollitically correct, have to be on this board) because Jesus was called the son, and Mary was a woman. Therefore from the human standpoint people put two and two together and God = male.

The bible cleary states in Genises that Man does not mean male....it says and if I have, which I probably will, I'll go get my bible to quote it word for word. But anyway something along the lines of, "God created man. He made them both male and female"

Genesis, chapter 1:
  26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

   27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


That's presumably why the Judeo-Christian fraternity tend to give God human, male, attributes: the "in his own image" bit seems fairly explicit in this regard.

I've always preferred the Jethro Tull version, myself:
1: In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he him.

2: And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over
    all the earth when it was suited to Man.

3: And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God
    and saw that it was good.

4: And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a host of others
    likened unto his kind.

5: And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some were burned;
    and some were put apart from their kind.

6: And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule
    over all the earth.

7: But as all these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause man
    to create his God lived on within all men: even within Aqualung.

8: And man saw it not.

9: But for Christ's sake he better start looking.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 03/28/05 at 5:40 pm

The ancient Hebrew language had no concept of grammatical gender. At least, that is my understanding of it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/28/05 at 6:47 pm

Doesn't mean that God is a boy.

I refer to my car as a she sometimes, but it has no female biology to it whatsoever.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: AL-B on 03/28/05 at 10:23 pm

I definitely believe in a higher power. I've done a lot of stupid things in my life--things that could have had disastrous consequenses, and none of them have really ever came back to bite me too badly. I hope I don't jinx myself by saying this, but a lot of times I think there's someone looking out for me.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 03/28/05 at 10:24 pm

Two guys riding on horses in the desert. A bullet comes flying out of nowhere, bounces off a rock and hits one in the head, kills him. The other guy thinks it is a miracle, but to the other, its just damn bad luck.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 03/29/05 at 12:42 am


Doesn't mean that God is a boy.

I refer to my car as a she sometimes, but it has no female biology to it whatsoever.

Can be a substitute in a pinch.  What was that line from Grease?, "The heater doesn't work as good as you," something like that!
:-X

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/29/05 at 1:54 am


Can be a substitute in a pinch.  What was that line from Grease?, "The heater doesn't work as good as you," something like that!
:-X


Don't know....haven't seen Grease for a while.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 03/29/05 at 12:32 pm

it was the patriarchy that characterised the ancient hebrews that made God a male. i believe God is sexless, there's no need for Him to be a man or that matter, a woman.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/29/05 at 1:20 pm


it was the patriarchy that characterised the ancient hebrews that made God a male. i believe God is sexless, there's no need for Him to be a man or that matter, a woman.


I can't think of God anymore without thinking of this:

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/29/05 at 1:21 pm

For those that don't know, that is God as imagined by the South Park freaks. ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 03/29/05 at 1:59 pm

and he was a buddhist too and only mormons got into heaven  ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/29/05 at 4:12 pm


I follow the teachings of Christ, though I am the proud namer of Absorbism.

A lot of people, like yourself, talk about how great God is and how much he loves us. Have you ever felt as though your God hates you? I often feel like God hates me, like I'm doing something to tick him off, and I'm being punished for it. Have you ever felt this way, or something similar? Like God was leaving when things got hard, or that he just didn't care? Lemme know. I guarantee in a week or so Hairspray'll have this on the political board.


Apricot I'm not using this to piss you off, and I'm certainly not using this to in any shape or form prove my dislike for you.  I respect you, your opinion, and I suppose if this is gonna make you mad or hate me or whatever, then so be it.


What he said up there is exactly what I'm talking about.  read what he wrote, it's the formula for 85% of the atheist in this world.  They can't get it out of there head that God isn't about them.  We are about him.  It's about serving him.  I've been in that predicament and often have to fight off from it because it's so easy in this day in age to say "felt like he hated me or felt like he just didn't care."

This isn't directed towards apricot, he just stated what I can use back up my original statement  I used a while back of how people quit believing in God because things didnt' go there way.

I'd rather just state what I see as a whole  without having to corner someone like I did Apricot, but I'm left with little to no choice in that matter anymore.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/29/05 at 4:23 pm


What he said up there is exactly what I'm talking about. read what he wrote, it's the formula for 85% of the atheist in this world. They can't get it out of there head that God isn't about them. We are about him. It's about serving him. I've been in that predicament and often have to fight off from it because it's so easy in this day in age to say "felt like he hated me or felt like he just didn't care."

When I start spouting off about how Christians are all hypocritical idiots who continually spout total bull, then you can start telling me what atheists think or believe.  "God isn't about them"??? No, of course God has nothing to do with me, 'cause He's an invention of the human mind.  There is no God, period.  The bible may have passages which are relevant to life today, but that doesn't come from divine authorship: quite the opposite.  It also has many passages which are completely irrelevant to life now or whenever, but let's forget about those, because all they do is show how narrow-minded and just plain stupid some of the people who wrote the damn thing were.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 03/29/05 at 4:34 pm


What he said up there is exactly what I'm talking about.  read what he wrote, it's the formula for 85% of the atheist in this world.  They can't get it out of there head that God isn't about them.  We are about him.  It's about serving him.

That might be the biggest cop-out I've ever heard. So God made everyone just so we could be his slaves? And if we refuse this life of emotional and intellectual slavery, we get to spend an eternity in Hell? What a loving deity... I heard something recently that has me thinking. How egotistical is it to assume that someone as lowly as myself or anyone else could possibly do anything to offend something like God? What could I possibly do that would offend something that's supposedly so large that my brain can't even comprehend it? But nevermind... for whatever reason, you know better.


I've been in that predicament and often have to fight off from it because it's so easy in this day in age to say "felt like he hated me or felt like he just didn't care."
So basically, everytime your train of thought might lead you into questioning the existence of God, you force yourself away from thought. Sounds a lot to me like you are afraid of something which lurks somewhere in you mind.


This isn't directed towards apricot, he just stated what I can use back up my original statement  I used a while back of how people quit believing in God because things didnt' go there way.
It is an insult to the intelligence to reduce the concept of atheism to a few shallow jerks who "quit believeing" because their girlfriends or boyfriends dumped them or whatever. You can rest assured that it's more than 85% of atheists who don't believe for legitmate reasons.


I'm left with little to no choice in that matter anymore.

Right, I forgot. Your mission here must be completed at any cost. And that mission is...? To make us all see the slipshod error in our ways? How our lack of faith really just boils down to selfishness and vapid materialism? But what do I know, I'm an agnostic.   ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 03/29/05 at 4:37 pm


Right, I forgot. Your mission here must be completed at any cost. And that mission is...? To make us all see the slipshod error in our ways? How our lack of faith really just boils down to selfishness and vapid materialism? But what do I know, I'm an agnostic.  ::)


His mission, I believe, is to drive us all insane.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alicia on 03/29/05 at 6:04 pm

yes...I'm sitting right here  :D

I dont believe in religion....I'm not going to put down anyone who does either because people can believe in whatever they want...as for me I was raised a catholic but growing up I started devolping questions......I do belive in one god and to me that god is everything even satan him/herself he/she is both evil and nice depends on what his/her mood is ....I see innocent people dying everyday..and no, not all are sinners especially poor people who live in poverty in other countries....so if god is so loving why does he let bad things happen to some good people?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alicia on 03/29/05 at 10:57 pm


nah, not all of us.....just the heartless heathens :P

dont forget the non christians!  :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 1:53 am

I never knew how much Satan ruled the world, didn't want to know, but now I do.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/30/05 at 1:58 am


I never knew how much Satan ruled the world, didn't want to know, but now I do.

Oh, cop-out to end all cop-outs... if we're all so satanically-inspired, why aren't we evil?  If your world-view was even remotely accurate, all non-Christian types would be doing all sorts of bad stuff... instead, you find the majority of the worlds wars and nastiness started by people who claim that they do follow that odd fellow of yours.  I know, you'll probably say that they ain't real Christians... but that probably only leaves one who is.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 2:05 am


Oh, cop-out to end all cop-outs... if we're all so satanically-inspired, why aren't we evil?  If your world-view was even remotely accurate, all non-Christian types would be doing all sorts of bad stuff... instead, you find the majority of the worlds wars and nastiness started by people who claim that they do follow that odd fellow of yours.  I know, you'll probably say that they ain't real Christians... but that probably only leaves one who is.


well occording to a sum on this message board, nothing is evil. So when there isn't anything evil at all to be done, then you can't possibly be evil.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/30/05 at 2:24 am

"The Hated?"

Martyr city. ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 03/30/05 at 10:29 am

holy sheesh, harmonica, you've gotten a martyr complex. i like it. i love seeing someone crack, it proves that your learning

yes, evil exists and in great abundance. i make it my hobby to find it, study it and experiment with it, yet i keep my faith in God. i believe i'm being tested, like Job but i'm actually enjoying myself...:evil grin:

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 03/30/05 at 11:32 am


yes, evil exists and in great abundance. i make it my hobby to find it, study it and experiment with it, yet i keep my faith in God. i believe i'm being tested, like Job but i'm actually enjoying myself...:evil grin:


that makes two of us, being on here is definately more interesting than my assignments.


well occording to a sum on this message board, nothing is evil. So when there isn't anything evil at all to be done, then you can't possibly be evil.


a "sum" so now you are adding us up.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 03/30/05 at 11:44 am

Well Harmonica/TheHated, I for one don't hate you even though you think I am "evil" because I am a witch and not a Christian. But, I think (as I have said once before) that you do need to chill out. You have ever right to believe what you believe. However, you have to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. You just have to chalk that up to life. But you shouldn't try to play the victim because it is not going help you and people will be less apt to listen to what you have to say.





Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alicia on 03/30/05 at 12:30 pm


I never knew how much Satan ruled the world, didn't want to know, but now I do.


lol yes  I love satan I worship him all the time...as a matter of fact I had a great sacrificial ceramony last night and drank the blood of a poor defensless animal...and just to be more evil I listend to Marilyn Manson while I was doing it and did some dope because we all know he influences people to be evil...so yes Satan does rule the world for many of us  :D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 1:36 pm


Didn't you know?  We ARE evil.  We are the heartless heathens ;D


That's more logical than some of the other things you have said.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 1:39 pm


holy sh**, harmonica, you've gotten a martyr complex. i like it. i love seeing someone crack, it proves that your learning

yes, evil exists and in great abundance. i make it my hobby to find it, study it and experiment with it, yet i keep my faith in God. i believe i'm being tested, like Job but i'm actually enjoying myself...:evil grin:


I dont' think you have the story of job right. He did NOTHING wrong, and got punished for no reason what so ever.  Satan kept telling God that eventually if God did enough to sadden Job that Job would turn against God. God wanted to see if Satan was right or wrong. Satan ended up being wrong as Job stood by God all the way and in the end was rewarded all of the possessions and loves he had taken away from him times 10.

Job didn't go out and do evil things to see if he'd be punished or not, and he certainly didn't test God, God tested him.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 1:41 pm


Well Harmonica/TheHated, I for one don't hate you even though you think I am "evil" because I am a witch and not a Christian. But, I think (as I have said once before) that you do need to chill out. You have ever right to believe what you believe. However, you have to realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. You just have to chalk that up to life. But you shouldn't try to play the victim because it is not going help you and people will be less apt to listen to what you have to say.





Cat


I was plotted against. It was ok for Crazymom to put me down and call me names and tell me what I believe is in all sense of reality a bunch of B.S....but when the tables turned and I did the same thing back...that was not ok.

Life isn't fair, I know that....but I don't have to sit around and act like I don't know what's happening.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 1:45 pm


lol yes  I love satan I worship him all the time...as a matter of fact I had a great sacrificial ceramony last night and drank the blood of a poor defensless animal...and just to be more evil I listend to Marilyn Manson while I was doing it and did some dope because we all know he influences people to be evil...so yes Satan does rule the world for many of us  :D



I helped someone the other day..which is an act of Christianity...I wasn't thinking to myself at the time I helped them that I was for sure doing something to as an act to God.  In fact I know atheist that have helped other people including myself with things, which is an act of Christianity and they for sure knew that THEY were not doing it, as an act on there own part of Christianity.

You don't have to worship Satan or or drink the blood of a poor defenseless animal to do something Satanic.  I never called you satanic to begin with, I said that Satan seems to rule the world. And in a world where baby killing, and God is treated like a Santa clause are accepted with a smile, that is Satanic regardless of who or what is being worshiped.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/30/05 at 1:56 pm


holy sh**, harmonica, you've gotten a martyr complex. i like it. i love seeing someone crack, it proves that your learning

yes, evil exists and in great abundance. i make it my hobby to find it, study it and experiment with it, yet i keep my faith in God. i believe i'm being tested, like Job but i'm actually enjoying myself...:evil grin:


Is this evil enough for you? ;D

For all the true Christians out there, please don't take offense to this picture I'm posting. I'm just being silly and promoting the t-shirt hell website. :D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/30/05 at 2:02 pm


Is this evil enough for you? ;D

For all the true Christians out there, please don't take offense to this picture I'm posting. I'm just being silly and promoting the <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=24&k=t%20shirt" onmouseover="window.status='t-shirt'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">t-shirt</a> hell website. :D


Nothing wrong with a little humor. The T-shirt was good for a laugh, and so was the inclanation that you could possibly have any idea what a true Christian was.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/30/05 at 2:03 pm


Nothing wrong with a little humor. The T-shirt was good for a laugh, and so was the inclanation that you could possibly have any idea what a true Christian was.


Definitely not you. Besides, I wasn't addressing you, so shut the f*ck up.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 03/30/05 at 2:06 pm


Definitely not you. Besides, I wasn't addressing you, so shut the f*ck up.



Is he worth getting this thread locked, deleted or banned for?



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/30/05 at 2:09 pm



Is he worth getting this thread locked, deleted or banned for?



Cat


Words of wisdom. Sorry Catwoman and ChuckyG if you read this. :P

Unfortunately I'm at the breaking point and if something isn't done about martyr extraordinaire, I'm going to go ballistic. Which is probably what he wants, come to think of it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 03/30/05 at 2:10 pm


I was plotted against. It was ok for Crazymom to put me down and call me names and tell me what I believe is in all sense of reality a bunch of B.S....but when the tables turned and I did the same thing back...that was not ok.

Life isn't fair, I know that....but I don't have to sit around and act like I don't know what's happening.




"I was framed" ploy is part of playing the victim. If you stop trying to play the victim than maybe people will start listening to what you have to say.




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alicia on 03/30/05 at 2:37 pm


Nothing wrong with a little humor. The T-shirt was good for a laugh, and so was the inclanation that you could possibly have any idea what a true Christian was.


what is a TRUE christian...define a TRUE christian..does anyone know what it is? you cant define something like this and expect that if someone is that certain thing and makes a mistake then would they not be that thing anymore? who tells you what is what and that is that....you dont know what a true christian is...nobody does it was just something that was made up so long ago and has been altered so many times how do we know whats what anymore...I'm not going to believe in that stuff until I can hear it from god myself...you only know what a ture christian is because you were brught up that way to believe whatever it was that someone told you..and the bible that has been altered so many times as well if they came out with a new one and it said that you are a good christian if you kill yourself (even though suicide is a sin) but it doesnt matter because the bible says so..would you do it?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 03/30/05 at 3:02 pm


I dont' think you have the story of job right. He did NOTHING wrong, and got punished for no reason what so ever.  Satan kept telling God that eventually if God did enough to sadden Job that Job would turn against God. God wanted to see if Satan was right or wrong. Satan ended up being wrong as Job stood by God all the way and in the end was rewarded all of the possessions and loves he had taken away from him times 10.

Job didn't go out and do evil things to see if he'd be punished or not, and he certainly didn't test God, God tested him.


i got the story right. i was using an anology of someone being tested and Job fit right in. i do read the bible you know, i just have a different angle of approach to my interpretations.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/30/05 at 4:07 pm


That's more logical than some of the other things you have said.

Logical???  WTF do you know about logic?  Please note that nearly all the respondents to your messages have not replied ad hominem, but simply pointed out how unbelievably stupid a lot of the things you've said have been.  But because you have no arguments, merely unsupportable pronouncements, you are unable to argue... hence the feeling of being got at from all sides.

Come out of your little shell of "everybody hates me" and see the world as it actually is: full of good and bad, some of it religiously-inspired, some of it not... there isn't "evil" everywhere, no matter how much you seem to want that to be true.  But if you insist on continuing to spout utterly absurd bullsheesh, then don't be surprised if all around pick you up on it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: philbo on 03/30/05 at 4:55 pm


That was a slam at me because he doesn't like what I say. Too bad, so sad, better luck next time :P

I found it kind of ironic that he'd use the word "logical", that's all... and the "everyone else is all wrong" stance can backfire, when everyone else starts to argue back :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 03/30/05 at 5:18 pm

I hesitated to read this (the last 3 pages) but Cat twisted my arm.  I must say that the notion of "logic" entering into a discussion of religion is, to me, an oxymoron.  What I see here is a religious fanatic ranting against the opinions of good people on the basis of his own FAITH.  Faiuth is not suceptible to logic by definition, nor to any for of scientific reasoning or any other form of rationalism.  We who, in our own humble ways try to use logic, science, and reason are easilly dismissed as non-believers, secular humanists etc, and that's the end of the story.  So why bother?  Unless you find it fun to goad the "true believers".

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:40 am




"I was framed" ploy is part of playing the victim. If you stop trying to play the victim than maybe people will start listening to what you have to say.




Cat


I just want treated fairly. Victem, enemy, criminal, saint, whatever...fairly.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:41 am


What name did I call you?  Huh?  What name have I ever called anyone?  I can think of 3 off the top of my head that you have called me....none very nice....not to mention the number of times you've called me heartless.

And, trust me, you were NOT plotted against.  You dug your own grave, buddy.  We've got better things to do than plot against the likes of you ::)


no names, just vulgar put downs.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:42 am


YOU view it as "Christianity", but in reality, it has nothing to do with Christianity.  If a Jewish man helped a person of unknown faith, would that be considered an act of Judaism?  If a Muslim did the same, would that be Islamic?  Or is everything in your world that is "good" Christian and everything that's not "Christian" Satanic?  ::)


It has to fall somewhere.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:46 am


what is a TRUE christian...define a TRUE christian..does anyone know what it is? you cant define something like this and expect that if someone is that certain thing and makes a mistake then would they not be that thing anymore? who tells you what is what and that is that....you dont know what a true christian is...nobody does it was just something that was made up so long ago and has been altered so many times how do we know whats what anymore...I'm not going to believe in that stuff until I can hear it from god myself...you only know what a ture christian is because you were brught up that way to believe whatever it was that someone told you..and the bible that has been altered so many times as well if they came out with a new one and it said that you are a good christian if you kill yourself (even though suicide is a sin) but it doesnt matter because the bible says so..would you do it?


A true christian is someone that does his or her best to live there life For God, and according to Gods rules.  Now I am not perfect, I have sinned in the past, I'll sin in the future.  But I do live my life for God, and I do, do my best.

There are so many iffy spots, and there are other cituations where you have no choice but to sin.  You can either do this wrong thing, or you can do this wrong thing.  Either way your doing wrong.

Secondly I have no idea what happened to Ralph, or how he was judged by God.  Based on prior knowledge, yes I do unfortunately believe he committed suicide, but it could have been an accident. So maybe he's in Hell right now, and maybe he's not.  That I don't know.



Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:50 am


Logical???  WTF do you know about logic?  Please note that nearly all the respondents to your messages have not replied ad hominem, but simply pointed out how unbelievably stupid a lot of the things you've said have been.  But because you have no arguments, merely unsupportable pronouncements, you are unable to argue... hence the feeling of being got at from all sides.

Come out of your little shell of "everybody hates me" and see the world as it actually is: full of good and bad, some of it religiously-inspired, some of it not... there isn't "evil" everywhere, no matter how much you seem to want that to be true.  But if you insist on continuing to spout utterly absurd balony, then don't be surprised if all around pick you up on it.


More bad than good, huh? And you like it that way.  I don't.

I do see the world as it is. I dont' let some pretty pollitician say his or her opinion and then act like that's 110% correct. I take the actualness into effect. What I say isn't bologna, it's just not in conformity with your messed up way of thinking. But what I can't say that, because I'm in the minority, regardless of actual right or wrong. The Issues aren't gray, the people are.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 03/31/05 at 10:52 am


I just want treated fairly. Victem, enemy, criminal, saint, whatever...fairly.



Is it fair that you jump all over us because we have a different opinion than you.

of course it it right,  because your right and we are wrong, everybody in the world is wrong but you ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 03/31/05 at 10:58 am



Is it fair that you jump all over us because we have a different opinion than you.

of course it it right,  because your right and we are wrong, everybody in the world is wrong but you ::)


I once said on this message board that I believed that the innocent gruesome murder of an unborn baby was wrong, yet I beleived that the justified execution of a criminal was right. And I was called a hypocrit because I do not look at killing a baby who did nothing wrong, and deserves a chance at life, the same way that I look at a man being executed that raped and killed 4 women and there boyfriends/husbands.

That was very disrespectful to call me a hypocrit, very disrespectful.

That's one incident....I have more.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Alicia on 03/31/05 at 12:28 pm



okok to lighten things up...I do believe in God...I ate him last night :P

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 03/31/05 at 12:28 pm


I just want treated fairly. Victem, enemy, criminal, saint, whatever...fairly.




But I don't see you treating others fairly. You set yourself up and then cry that you are not being treated fairly. Don't you see, I am trying to help you. But, it is obvious that you are not taking my advice. You seem to like playing this part and who am I to deprive someone of doing something that they like to do. Oh well. Have fun.




Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 03/31/05 at 1:56 pm


I once said on this message board that I believed that the innocent gruesome murder of an unborn baby was wrong, yet I beleived that the justified execution of a criminal was right. And I was called a hypocrit because I do not look at killing a baby who did nothing wrong, and deserves a chance at life, the same way that I look at a man being executed that raped and killed 4 women and there boyfriends/husbands.

That was very disrespectful to call me a hypocrit, very disrespectful.

That's one incident....I have more.


That wasn't the reason you were called that, the reason was because you said crazymom told you that Ralph should forgive his ex.(not true by the way) and that if he should do it,then she should forgive the bastard that raped her.

That, I believe, is when you were called a hypocrite.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 03/31/05 at 3:38 pm


So why bother?  Unless you find it fun to goad the "true believers".


Sad to say, I do. My boss has no work for me right now and the baby sleeps a lot, so I have plenty of free time. :P

Besides, I've already stated that I do not like this dude because of what he says, not because he is a Christian (which I must repeat because he's getting that martyr complex ::)).

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Xer on 03/31/05 at 5:48 pm

Yes I do.  God is simple and people are complicated and tend complicate things.  The question is do you have a relationship with him.  I'm a believer and know him from personal experience.  I know that people want to see faith be real not fake and I think people don't nessesarily reject God as much as the hypocrocy they see.  If a person really knew God's presence and love, they would know he is real and loves them.  If you're a believer please be real and not fake because folks can spot a mile away and that's one thing we don't need more of.  The church needs to be the church and quit playing church.  In no way am I implieing those things to the author of this thread. ;)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 03/31/05 at 5:48 pm




There are so many iffy spots, and there are other cituations where you have no choice but to sin.  You can either do this wrong thing, or you can do this wrong thing.  Either way your doing wrong.



I guess I don't get it. God puts us on this earth with free will and the most powerfull intelligence we know of, and confronts us with what on Star Trek was called the "Komiachi Maru" scenario. you couldn't win unless you cheated.  The same God that almost destroyed an innocent and obidient man (Job) on a bet with the devil?  If you know what is right, how can you not, in your scenario, find a third alternative that is at least meither right ot wrong?  Seems to mke your thinking is much too simplistic.  There are never only two options.



The Issues aren't gray, the people are.


The only "gray people I have ever seen are dead, and they were what you would have called white in life.  Most people I know are a mass of contradictions, and that includes me.  Like Jimmy Carter, I sometimes "lust in my heart" for women other than Cat, then I come home and ...  If by "gray" you mean that we are all falible humans, yes, that is true, and most of us recognize that, which is why we take umberage at being told that we are damned, sinners, or whatever.  I freely admit that I am not perfect, but my imperfections are

NOT


For you to judge.  They are between me and the Goddess, or God if you prefer.

And issues ARE gray.  In fact, just about every issue we can address is "gray".  The problem I have with religious fanatics is that they can't see the gray.  Their response seems to be, "read the bible, the answer is there", but doesn't that contradict the notion of free will, and if it is true, why did God (that is your god) burdun us with this big, energy expenisive and otherwise useless brain?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: McDonald on 03/31/05 at 5:53 pm

It doesn't matter. Any question you ask him may as well be rhetorical because the answers are certainly forseeable.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 03/31/05 at 6:32 pm


It doesn't matter. Any question you ask him may as well be rhetorical because the answers are certainly forseeable.


You may be right - you are almost assureredly right- but there are others who read this.  It is mostly to them that I address these questions.  Frankly I couldn't  give a rat's back side what Harmonica (TheHated) has to say, until he gets off that religious high house he is on and stops telling people that they are damned.  I always though thar was the Lord's domaine.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 2:31 am


Oh really?
http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php/topic,834.msg359201.html#msg359201 *see the beginning of paragraph #2*
I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to sort through every post you've made to find them ::)

So which is it?  Now you're saying you didn't call me names when
HERE you said you did?  And, how many "vulgar put downs" have I slung at you? 


I did call you names I wasn't saying that I didn't. I was saying that when you said that you never called me names, I replied, "Vulgar putdowns."

From the top of my head 3....but "f-u-c-k you" because you said it isn't one, so that makes it 2.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 2:35 am


That wasn't the reason you were called that, the reason was because you said crazymom told you that Ralph should forgive his ex.(not true by the way) and that if he should do it,then she should forgive the bastard that raped her.

That, I believe, is when you were called a hypocrite.


No this was when I first joined the message board, and she was still known as 80'scheerleadergirl or something to the sort. This was a long long time ago.

And go ahead and say it's not true.  It is, I know it is, and anyone that knows the truth knows it is.  I really dont' care that if George killed his grandpa it would make it easier on Georges life because then he would collect insurance and he'd be able to pay off the bills and loans he's been piling up on, so I really don't care how it'd make Sally's life easier if she killed her unborn daughter either.  Funny thing is, I'm not exspected to sit down and talk with George open mindedly feeling sorry for him. Yet I would be with sally.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 2:37 am


Why is it not hypocritical?  If, in your view, a 6 week old fetus is a "person" with a "life", and a convicted murderer is a "person" with a "life" then the premature ending of either of those "lives" would be "murder" would it not?  I thought only God should have the power to take "life" ???



Then why not make you a hypocrit? Do you believe in all murder like you do abortion?

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 2:40 am


I guess I don't get it. God puts us on this earth with free will and the most powerfull intelligence we know of, and confronts us with what on Star Trek was called the "Komiachi Maru" scenario. you couldn't win unless you cheated.  The same God that almost destroyed an innocent and obidient man (Job) on a bet with the devil?   If you know what is right, how can you not, in your scenario, find a third alternative that is at least meither right ot wrong?  Seems to mke your thinking is much too simplistic.  There are never only two options.

The only "gray people I have ever seen are dead, and they were what you would have called white in life.  Most people I know are a mass of contradictions, and that includes me.  Like Jimmy Carter, I sometimes "lust in my heart" for women other than Cat, then I come home and ...  If by "gray" you mean that we are all falible humans, yes, that is true, and most of us recognize that, which is why we take umberage at being told that we are darned, sinners, or whatever.  I freely admit that I am not perfect, but my imperfections are

NOT


For you to judge.  They are between me and the Goddess, or God if you prefer.

And issues ARE gray.  In fact, just about every issue we can address is "gray".  The problem I have with religious fanatics is that they can't see the gray.  Their response seems to be, "read the bible, the answer is there", but doesn't that contradict the notion of free will, and if it is true, why did God (that is your god) burdun us with this big, energy expenisive and otherwise useless brain?


.....

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 04/01/05 at 9:10 am


And go ahead and say it's not true.  It is, I know it is, and anyone that knows the truth knows it is.  I really dont' care that if George killed his grandpa it would make it easier on Georges life because then he would collect insurance and he'd be able to pay off the bills and loans he's been piling up on, so I really don't care how it'd make Sally's life easier if she killed her unborn daughter either.  Funny thing is, I'm not exspected to sit down and talk with George open mindedly feeling sorry for him. Yet I would be with sally.


Nobody would expect you to sit down and talk to her, just to understand that it was her choice and it has nothing to do with you.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 1:14 pm


Nobody would expect you to sit down and talk to her, just to understand that it was her choice and it has nothing to do with you.


And about George? It was his choice...and it has nothing to do with me.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 04/01/05 at 1:16 pm


And about George? It was his choice...and it has nothing to do with me.



nobody would expect it with him either.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 1:26 pm



nobody would expect it with him either.


Are kidding me? Everyone and there dog would treat George like he's trash. He's name would be in the paper, he'd be on the news. His mom and dad would be made out to be horrible parents.

No would would expect it? A whole lot of people  would expect it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 04/01/05 at 1:33 pm


Are kidding me? Everyone and there dog would treat George like he's trash. He's name would be in the paper, he'd be on the news. His mom and dad would be made out to be horrible parents.

No would would expect it? A whole lot of people  would expect it.


ok, you got all that backwards now, I said nobody would expect you to sit down with either of them to talk and see why they did it.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Don Carlos on 04/01/05 at 4:50 pm


.....


This was a response to a long and thoughtful post.  I have no idea what it means, but I must say I feel disrespected and, in fact, feel insulted.  But never mind, evan we athiests/agnostics/wiccans/devil worshipers can forgive and forget.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/01/05 at 5:36 pm


This was a response to a long and thoughtful post.  I have no idea what it means, but I must say I feel disrespected and, in fact, feel insulted.  But never mind, evan we athiests/agnostics/wiccans/devil worshipers can forgive and forget.


Wittican's haven't heard that word in a while.  I did it out of respect for you. You stated that you dont' care what I write, so I didn't.  :)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: whitewolf on 04/01/05 at 5:43 pm


Wittican's haven't heard that word in a while.  I did it out of respect for you. You stated that you dont' care what I write, so I didn't.  :)



cop out  ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 04/01/05 at 5:47 pm


Wittican's haven't heard that word in a while. I did it out of respect for you. You stated that you dont' care what I write, so I didn't. :)


Witticans?

Wow, so you are a punk. Well, thanks for clearing it up anyway.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: CatwomanofV on 04/01/05 at 7:17 pm


This was a response to a long and thoughtful post.  I have no idea what it means, but I must say I feel disrespected and, in fact, feel insulted.  But never mind, evan we athiests/agnostics/wiccans/devil worshipers can forgive and forget.



Wittican's haven't heard that word in a while. I did it out of respect for you. You stated that you dont' care what I write, so I didn't. :)



Did you misquote Carlos purposely? The word he used was Wiccan. And I am a Wiccan. I am just curious if you know what a Wiccan is.



Cat

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: ElDuderino on 04/01/05 at 8:05 pm



Did you misquote Carlos purposely? The word he used was Wiccan. And I am a Wiccan. I am just curious if you know what a Wiccan is.



Cat


"A heathen basket". ::) ;D

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 12:04 am



Did you misquote Carlos purposely? The word he used was Wiccan. And I am a Wiccan. I am just curious if you know what a Wiccan is.



Cat


The spelling was an error, not done on purpose.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 12:19 am


When?  I went through the entire thread and didn't see ONCE when I "vulgarly" put you down.  And, I've never denied the "fu" comment, just that it wasn't in response to what you said it was.


Take your ball and go home.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 12:20 am


We've already established that I don't see MOST abortions as "murder" as the fetus is not viable when they are done....and I've already said (multiple times, in fact) that I don't approve of abortion....

Oh, and also in the Vera Drake thread....it wasn't ME who called you a hypocrite ::)

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 12:50 am


Excuse me?  What is that supposed to mean?  Stop saying what I think?  Why?  Because YOU don't like it?  Too bad, so sad, better luck next time....


You sound like the little kid that couldn't handle the fact that he cheated in dodge ball, so we had him take his ball and go home, believing that he was indeed right and that he had not cheated, or that he got away scott free with cheating.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 12:57 am


When did I cheat?  All I said was that I reread the thread (in case my memory wasn't 100% accurate on what I said) and found I was right.  I can cut and paste the posts here if you'd like since you thing I'm a "gutless liar"...


It was an example, not a forshadow.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 1:06 am


Subject: Re: A Pro Baby Murdering movie - Vera Drake
Written By: McDonald on 12/05/04 at 7:13:14

Let me say first that I don't think you are sick, I just think you are a hypocrite and you make ME sick.

Oh you "know" so much about God, eh? Let me be the first to clue you in on something... you don't know shhh! You know nothing more than the rest of us do about the afterlife or even the existence thereof... Saying you know something doesn't make it true. You can believe whatever you want, it makes no difference to me. It doesn't automatically mean that others believe the same way or work from the same (dare I say) logic as you, and it doesn't mean that you're right. I'm going to tell you straight up that I do not think abortion is wrong. It isn't very desirable, but neither is sheeshe and you don't see many people praying for forgiveness in the lavatories now do you? I don't think a fetus is the same thing as a person, so I don't consider abortion to be murder anymore than I consider hunting to be murder.

Do you really think that Hitler versus Girl Who Got an Abortion a proper comparison? I don't think so. I think your arguments are clinging for dear life.

You are seriously out of touch if you think that people are upset with you because you aren't "blind to Satan's antics." Get real, will ya? People are upset with you for the awful things you've said, and frankly people are pretty disgusted and fed up with your self-righteous attitude and verbal hypocrisy. You can't claim to be a compassionate Christian and then turn around and wish for some girl you've never met (a friend of a fellow board member) to go to hell! Are you mad?

Now you may think me a morally reprehensible person for all this, but I just could not care less. You've shown me in your posts your brand of morality, and it's quite disturbing and I want NO part of it! You seem to be unable to look at anything from a perspective other than your own. Looking at things in such a way does not require you to change your beliefs at all, just to try and understand the way others think and why. I think you have a lot to learn about the wide world, and granted so do I, but you really need to get kicking.



From someone who is no better, you sure have it together don't you?  I know a lot about the whole wide world.  And Just because you think that a Girl who had an abortion did nothing wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else does. You keep preaching left and right about how one should respect the opinion and beliefs of others yet you think I'm mad for comparing Hitler to a woman who had an abortion. Well guess what, a whole lot, a whole heck of a lot of people view abortion as the murder of an unborn baby. They DO look at it as baby killing I'm no the only one. And there are a lot of people, Who DO NOT look at the lady who had an abortion as being good and Hitler as being Bad, they look at both of them as being bad.

You claim to be all righteous and correct and fair in your statements but your nothing more than a clever con, that shifts your words around so they can't come back to bite you in the a$$.

And I"m not stupid, as you would like to believe I am, nor am I ignorant.  I could have done things in the same mannor as you, you better believe it. I've read argument books and I've studied up on them for a long time. Only I wasn't afraid of anything here, and I wanted to lay things on the line.

Congrats though, you did manage to convince everyone else, for that I applaude.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 1:28 am


Did you even look at the beginning of what I posted ???....IT WAS NOT ME!

Also, when did I ever say that women who have abortions are "good"?  Who am I to judge them?  What they do is between them and God, it has jack squat to do with me.

I've never claimed to be "righteous", "correct" and "fair".  You've taken care of the righteous avenue for all of us.  Correct?  IMO, yes, but who would think that their views are INcorrect?  "Fair"?  Who have I not been fair to?  I've simply stated my beliefs, as have others.  You, on the other hand, have taken it upon yourself to judge us for our beliefs.  We state scientific facts and you call it "fancy schmancy scientific talk".  I don't "word shift", I call things as I see them.  If you don't like it, that's not my problem.  As far as I'm concerned, nothing I've said has come to bite me in the a$$....the truth never does...


And you know what the truth is?  So I suppose when you said, "no one does" that didn't include yourself?  As far as your concerned, you've done 0, zelch, nothing wrong....you didn't need to add that in at the end of your statement...the fact you see your actions clearly impeccable is none shy whatsoever.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 1:45 am


You have your "truth" and I have mine.  They're not the same.  I accept that...many of us here accept that...YOU, however, can't seem to.  You take every statement that doesn't agree with your beliefs and say it's an "attack" on you and then try and use that as an excuse to call us names.  When I said "no one does" where?  Hey, if stating my beliefs is "wrong" in your eyes, then there's nothing I can do about it, is there?  I've never said you're "wrong" for stating your beliefs, but you seem to attribute EVERY negative comment that is said towards you to me.  Funny how it's okay for you to state yours, but not okay for me to state mine ???


it's the other way around....clearly.

and EVERY is overexaggerated quite a bit.  most of the time I remain central...go around and look at any other topics I've posted on, and tell me that I disagree with everything everyone has said, and tell me that I tell everyone that they are wrong on each and every post I've written.

I think 4th demensionally all of the time, and 90% of the time I remain a nuetral foe/friend that can make both sides look good.  Abortion, and God are the two things in life that the other 10%.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Harmonica on 04/02/05 at 1:59 am


What?  We've accused YOU of attacking us?  Only as a "counterattack"... You're right.  I should have said every statement on this thread.  I apologize. So, 90 % of the time, you <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=24&k=flip%20flop" onmouseover="window.status='flip flop'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">flip flop</a>?


Apology accepted.

I'm not John Kerry.

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: sputnikcorp on 04/02/05 at 2:25 am

i beleiev in God...did i mention that already? God rocks!...i'm drunk and God loves drunks. *sings amazing grace*

Subject: Re: Do You believe in God?

Written By: Jessica on 04/02/05 at 2:33 am


i beleiev in God...did i mention that already? God rocks!...i'm drunk and God loves drunks. *sings amazing grace*


Mmmm....drinking. I'll be doing that tomorrow night and singing "Suavecito" by Malo.

(Long story behind that song.) :D

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