Your still not getting what I'm saying.

These two types of wrestling are different, and in the same sense the awards for them are way different too.

Both are based on effort and heart....but not at all in the same sense.

You win a belt in WWE it's because of your character, your acting ability, and your performance inside the ring, and more importantly outside the ring.

You win an All American Medal in wrestling it's because you worked your a** off, had talent, luck, and beat someone out for the postition.

Man this is hard to explain...but please don't compare the two.


Again, I understand what you are saying, Harmonica. But we are not comparing how people get their belts (for hard work/acting ability etc) or the two in general. We are merely expressing an opinion of interest and why it interests us.

Pro Wrestling may not be real, and wrestlers do get pushed depending on how they get over with the crowd, but we prefer it to the real thing because it is escapism. I understand what you are getting at. I watch football (soccer) and I wouldn't appreciate match-fixing but what you must remember is that Pro wrestling is not pretending to be anything apart from entertainment.

The problem here, Harmonica is that the audience are allowed beyond the wrestling ring these days and people are aware of how the wrestling industry works. This ruins the illusion of Pro Wrestling - but that is what it is . . . An illusion. You can't take American Pro Wrestling seriously anyway. The crowd don't neccessarily want to bothered by whether something is true or not (the true fans anyway), they just want to watch, throw sports logic out of the way, and enjoy it.

Also, I don't deny that signing Kurt Angle was the smartest thing WWF/E ever did......he adapted amazingly to the sports-entertainment world.  The amateur community probably feels he betrayed them these days (not sure on that..anyone know the real story there?) but darn, he truly was the Golden Boy of the company in late '99 when he debuted.  Altho, when he was the chairbound General Manager, all I could think was "Professor Charles Xavier!"  :)


I never rated Angle in sports entertainment. Too overblown and his 'charisma' is formulaic (catchphrases and pathetic audience connection). IMO, he follows the Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and even Chris Jericho route. These guys are great wrestlers but they usually winge on about their wrestling backgrounds and I just can't 'click' with them like the older generation (British Bulldog, Greg Valentine, Ric Flair, Mr Perfect, Jake Roberts, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Honky Tonk Man . . .). Even 'Hillbilly' Jim! What the heck did that man do? Not much, but I eagerly anticipated seeing him walk down the aisle to the ring more than Kurt Angle. There is a huge difference between charisma and being 'larger than life'.

Here's the deal on why I dislike Kurt Angle with a great passion, and hate the fact that he's so popular.

The 1996 Gold medal run of Kurt Angle has got to be one of the greatest heart warming stories of all time. It makes you feel such pride and Americanism, if their is such a word. Few people worked as hard or as long as Kurt Angle did at winning his gold medal. Many people talked about how they worked their asses off and you sometimes wonder if they really did or just wanted people to think they did. Kurt Angle DID. After watching him win the gold medal it just made me feel all happy inside. I knew his story. Of how it was for his dead dad, of how it was for his coach, of how he had worked extraordinarly hard towards obtaining his goal. I felt such a respect for Kurt Angle. A lot of people just couldn't understand why he was crying so hard. Theirs not a greater feeling in the world than self pride, especially knowing your busted your hump to earn it.
  Kurt Angle caught the eye of Vince McMahon. McMahon offered Angle a large sum of money to be in the WWE. Angle said to McMahon, "Hell No, Pro wrestling is a stupid form of entertainment that only fat lazy retarded people enjoy". He based pro wrestling for a while longer then hung up the phone and was on his way to making some big bucks with is "Angle" wrestling camps at the University of Clarion. Things didn't go Angles way. Very few high school prospects went to Kurts's "Angle" camps and the money was not their.  Ironically after being insulted, McMahon offered Kurt Angle another opportunity. Seeing $$ and the chance of even more fame in the WWE Angle took the offer.
    One of the first things he did in the WWE is make a mocery out of winning the Gold medal. He made fun of the way he cried and celebrated after winning. If that doesn't show how heartless the man is then I don't know what does. You can say the acting side of entertainment or argue that money talks, cause it does. However to put money over what achievement meant to you, is sickening.
    I dont' know if people have a horrible memory or what?  Angle had one thing that he did on his own and that was "the three I's".  Other than that he stole everything. He stole the Gimmick of my all time favortie wrestler "The Patriot" and stole the way he acts and the moves of "Ken Shamrock".  He's not even comparable to the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Chris Beniot, Chris Jericho, Rick Martle, Tito Santana, or even Jimmy Sunka but the fans were eating him up calling him perhaps the greatest of all time.
  As time went on I started to get sicker and sicker everytime I saw Kurt Angle on the screen. Here's a guy that doesn't even like professional wrestling yet he's getting everything handed to him. The King of the Ring, The IC title, Euro Title, and the heavyweight title.  Many people say, "well he deserved it, he's awesome." Show's how ignorant some wrestling fans are.  It took me no more than 5 minutes to come up with 50 pro wrestlers who never got those fames, who never got those honors. Wrestlers that worked their way up the ladder, wrestlers WHO WANTED TO BE THEIR! who never got their time in the light of glory.  I have never felt more mad then when I watched Hulk Hogan tap out to Angles submission lock.
When it comes down to it Angle say's he's got a newfound Love for professional wrestling, that he loves it. My ass. That's the biggest load of bullsheesh I've ever heard in my life. Angle loves the $$, Angle Loves the Fame, Angle loves knowing that he is one of the best. That's what it comes down to. If Angle had to be in the independents, he WOULDN'T. You can argue with me all you like, but watch out if Angle  ever gets fired, he'll show his true colors, he'll say how he really feels abotu professional wrestling.

Kurt Angle is a true phony, a true liar, a true disgrace, and a true asshole. Oh it's true, it's true, it's true!

Harmonica, I'm not even gonna dignify that wiith a response, besides this.  >:(

Harmonica, I recognise why you feel this way towards Angle. He accomplished a major achievement despite problems and then made a mockery of this for fame and fortune. You should realise by now that fame and fortune does things to people (even people you think have integrity). Kurt Angle has proved he is no different.

Jared, I appreciate Harmonica has just knocked down your favourite wrestler but that is his opinion.  ;)

Harmonica, I'm not even gonna dignify that wiith a response, besides this.  >:(


I suppose I feel the same way you do when I think about wrestlers who deserved what Angle didn't deserve but got.

Think of Abdullah the Butcher? Think of Bill Dundee. Think of anyone that deserved a hell of a lot more than what they got, and then try and tell me that you don't see where I'm coming from.


Bobby - Yeah I know

I suppose I feel the same way you do when I think about wrestlers who deserved what Angle didn't deserve but got.

Think of Abdullah the Butcher? Think of Bill Dundee. Think of anyone that deserved a hell of a lot more than what they got, and then try and tell me that you don't see where I'm coming from.


Abdullah the Butcher was one of those feud-based wrestlers and his motives are different, preferring to just simply sadistically beat people up (would you believe I saw him wrestle Terry Funk in XPW recently? The man still wrestles!). I don't know much about Bill Dundee but I have a couple of matches of him in USWA.

You rarely see a wrestler that is feud-based these days (e.g Jake Roberts, Junkyard Dog, 'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan (to some extent), King King Bundy, Bigbossman (from 1988 - 1993, he did come back and win the hardcore title), Giant Gonzalas, Bad News Brown, Bezerker, Nailz - these men really had no chance of a decent title because their motives were not title orientated (and some of them a good job too - imagine the main event 'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan V Nailz  :P).

Talking of Nailz, he is the only wrestler I know of that uses less moves than Hulk Hogan! The guy is completely useless as a wrestler but he did strike a certain prescence though - especially the way he stomped purposefully to the ring.

Abdullah is 60 something years old and he still rules!